Hello guys,
I am an aspiring game programmer and designer (Electrical & Computer Engineer Degree w/ minor in Computer Science specializing in game design) who loves MMORPGs. As someone who grew up with games like Ragnarok, Maple Story and World of Warcraft, I always dream to have a game of my own but I believe that I need more experience developing it first. But developing my own game is very costly. So here I am, my first few steps towards that dream. I truly believe that if I could make a successful private server, one day I would be able to start developing my own game.
I've been playing and experimenting on RO servers for almost 10 years now (man I'm getting old). I have experience as both server Admin/GM as well as developer (for server w/ more than 300 players at peak times). Some of you may know my from my previous private server idea: http://forum.ratemyserver.net/server-discussion/private-server-moving-forward/ (http://forum.ratemyserver.net/server-discussion/private-server-moving-forward/)
In case you're wondering, I did release a BETA version of the server and guess what? Players loved it! [Check the preview changelog at the end of this post!]
To summarize, here are a few server features that was tested and appreciated during the server BETA (yeap, this has already been implemented and tested):
- Point System: You will obtain points from killing Paragon (Custom Minibosses), MvPs or players. These points is shared among party members and can be used to buy equipments.
- Paragon Monsters: In every map, there will be 1 Paragon-type Monster for every 10 monster in the map. These monster are stronger and almost impossible to take on alone but contains an enormous amount of EXP and higher drops than the normal monsters. This encourages players to work together in order to defeat them and share the rewards!
- Skill buffs: There has been minor changes to many skills that introduces new way of playing a class. These changes gave birth to Soul Mages, Fistfury Monks, Lightburn Priests and many many more~!
- Spa Healing System: Unlike most servers, players will need to go to Spa in order to heal up. Players are rewarded with EXP boost upon leaving the Spa. Players actually loved this system, it allows players to take a break and socialize before going back to their adventure in Rune-Midgard.
- Upgraded Airship System: Players were able to travel from a city to another via Airship. This allows players to travel without losing the travel experience (and meet new people)! (http://ragnarokimmersion.com/img/AirshipRoute.png)
I opened the server on BETA for about two months to get reviews and opinions. And I have to say, most of them (about 15 players) truly enjoyed the server! They had a blast working together to defeat paragons and MvPs obtain points and gears! The only things missing is the common "Not enough players!" problem. To be fair, most players tend to stay away from BETA servers.
What I always dream of having in a game are these:
- Reintroduce social aspects of MMORPGs: No, I don't mean facebook games. I'm talking about games that rewards players for working together! So far, the Spa, Paragon Monsters, Airship and MvP Points did exactly this. These systems were designed to introduce social aesthetic on the server.
- Boost flexibility in combat: The custom skill design was introduce to add in more combat styles in the game. In addition to healer priest, other variation of healing were added to classes such as Paladin and Bard/Dancer. They are now more capable to heal but they way they do so is totally different from each other. This adds flexibility for players to play based on what they like/what their style is.
- Add in sense of adventure: This is a long-shot, but one of my initial work on this is the Custom Airship system. Players are able to feel as if they are on an adventure - not just getting level and kill monsters for no reason. I'm hoping to add in new content and questline to add in the wonderful fantasy world of Ragnarok Online. Adventure shouldn't stop just because you reach max level, it should be even better when you maxed out!
Sorry for the extremely long post! I can go on and on about this but I'll stop here before I scare away forumers. Let me know what you think!
Short video on class changes (this video is old so it only highlight about 30% of my changes -
link is also old - DO NOT USE):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I0NLoCxrnkk (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I0NLoCxrnkk)PS by Triper - Allowing the video to let people know about your ideas and stuff. Let's call it "borderline".
I need to know if you guys are interested before I release the official version of the server. I will be doing head-counts on my forum and announce if the server is ready to be released based on it.
Here's a preview changelog (skill changes only, not including all changes):
Spoiler
GENERAL CHANGES
All players' MaxHP will be increased by 100%.
STATUS CHANGES
Bleeding:
Any damage done on Bleeding target will cause them to take 20% of any damage received during the duration over 5 seconds.
Poison:
Poison can be lethal (can cause death).
Poison effect is now stackable (up to 20).
Poisoned target will take 20 hp per seconds every stack until the duration end.
If the effect is removed before the duration end (by skill or items), the player will take 50% of the remaining duration damage.
CLASS CHANGES
Lord KnightCharacter_LordKnight.jpg
Moving HP Recovery regenerates 100% of standing recovery.
Parry will now block all physical attacks (both ranged and melee) for 6 seconds. It now has a 1-minute cooldown.
Auto-Counter will now only counter one physical attack (both ranged and melee). When countered, the attacking enemy will be stunned for 3 seconds. It now has a 30-second cooldown.
Joint Beat will reduce target's movement speed up to 50%, last 5 seconds.
Head Crush now has a 100% chance to bleed enemy that can last up to 15 seconds. It now has a 45-seconds cooldown.
Frenzy will no longer restrict players from chatting or to be healed.
PaladinCharacter_Paladin.jpg
Moving HP Recovery regenerates 100% of standing recovery.
Devotion will now share 50% of the target's damage but has twice the range.
Autoguard will now grant the Paladin a shield that is blocks damage based on Paladin's MaxHP (up to 30%). Effects is shared on devoted target.
Reflect shield will cause the Paladin to lose 15 SP per second. Effects is shared on devoted target.
Defender will reduce Paladin's movement speed by 80%. Effects is shared on devoted target.
Allied target affected by Providence will receive 75% of healing done by the Paladin. Skill effect lasts 10 seconds and it now has a 15 seconds cooldown.
Pressure will reduce all healing received on enemy target by 50% for 10 seconds. It now has a 1-minute cooldown.
Assassin Cross
Character_AssassinCross.jpg
Detoxify can only be casted on yourself.
Sprinkle Sand blinds the target for 3 seconds. It now has a 30 seconds cooldown.
Throw Stone will stun the target for 0.5 seconds. It now has a 0.5 seconds cooldown.
Envenom now has 100% chance to poison the target. Casting Envenom on poisoned target will increase their poison stack by 1. It now has a 15 seconds cooldown (can be reduced to 5 seconds at max level)
Create Deadly Poison now has 100% success rate.
Enchant Deadly Poison no longer require Poison Bottle but will only increase your damage against poisoned targets. If you consume a Poison Bottle, your damage will increase against both poisoned and non-poisoned enemies.
Sonic Blow will deal twice the damage and has 100% hit rate when done behind target. It now has a 6 seconds cooldown.
Grimtooth will cause the player to be immobilized for 3 seconds. It now has a 10 second cooldown.
Venom Dust no longer require red gemstone. Standing on Venom Dust will cause player to be poisoned and their stack to increase by one per second.
Venom Splasher no longer require red gemstone or the target to be 2/3 HP. Venom Splasher will cause the target to explode every 0.5 seconds dealing 50% ATK and spread poison status on and around the target (increasing poison stack if they are already poisoned). It now has a 1-minute cooldown.
Soul Breaker damage is increased by 5% per poison stack on target.
Chaser
Character_Chaser.jpg
Detoxify can only be casted on yourself.
Sprinkle Sand blinds the target for 3 seconds. It now has a 30 seconds cooldown.
Throw Stone will stun the target for 0.5 seconds. It now has a 0.5 seconds cooldown.
Envenom now has 100% chance to poison the target. Casting Envenom on poisoned target will increase their poison stack by 1. It now has a 15 seconds cooldown (can be reduced to 5 seconds at max level)
All strip skills has 100% chance, last 8 seconds and has a 30 seconds cooldown. Full strip has a 1 minute cooldown.
Intimidate will now teleport you and the target 10 cells behind you.
Plagiarism is now an active skill. When casted on a player, the next spell the player cast will be copied (and will remove the plagiarism skill effect). Plagiarism can be casted while hiding/chase walk and it will not reveal the Stalker. Copied skill last 30 seconds.
Preserve increase the duration of copied skill to 10 minutes.
Backstab deals twice as much damage on target with full health and causes bleeding effect.
Raid deals 50% more damage per target hit, stunning them for 2 seconds and blinding them for 5 seconds. It now has a 15 seconds cooldown.
Gangster Paradise will cause players around stalker to be invisible (similar to Cloaking) for 8 seconds. Can be used while hiding/chase walk. It has a 7x7 area of effect.
Sniper
Character_Sniper.jpg
Arrow are no longer required to shoot and use skills.
Sharpshooting no longer has cast time and will deal triple the damage on targets below 35% HP. It now has a 15 seconds cooldown.
Arrow Making will allow players to choose their arrow of choice (Fire Arrow, Ice Arrow, etc).
Traps are no longer required to use trap skills.
Blitz Beat chance will now based on Beast Bane instead of LUK. 3% * Beast Bane Level.
Falcon Assault will deal twice the damage on targets afflicted by Freeze, Sleep, Blind and Ankle Snare. It now has an 8 second cooldown.
Clown/Gypsy
Character_Clown.jpgCharacter_Gypsy.jpg
Pang Voice can also be cast on friendly target. When a friendly target is affected by Pang Voice, they will be healed every second for 8 seconds based on the caster's int and level.
[Clown Only] Dissonance will now deal damage based on the caster's int and level.
Apple of Idun and Service for You will heal players based on the caster's INT and level.
Frost Joker/Scream chance increased to 100%/95%/90%/85%/80%. The chance is reduced depending on the range of the enemy. For each cell apart, the chance is reduced by 12%.
Using Encore now leaves a copy of the song's ground effect on the player's current position for 10 seconds.
High Priest
Character_HighPriest.jpg
When casting Turn Undead to non-undead target, their property will change to Undead for 10 seconds. It now has a 5 seconds cooldown.
Resurrection no longer has a change to instantly kill or damage Undead property monsters. Resurrection will no longer require blue gemstone. But it now has a 2-seconds fixed cast time.
Sanctuary will no longer require blue gemstone. It now has a 30 seconds cooldown.
Basilica no longer require holy water, yellow gemstone, blue gemstone and red gemstone but it will last only up to 10 seconds. It now has a 5 minute cooldown.
Safety Wall no longer require blue gemstone. But it has a 25 seconds cooldown.
Aspersio no longer require Holy Water.
Assumptio will now reduce all damage taken by 20%.
Redemptio will no longer cause the player to sacrifice himself/herself, but it now has a 3 minute cooldown.
Champion
Character_Champion.jpg
All combo skill are now targeted skill and can be used independently. Each combo skill will grant the player one spirit sphere (max of 5).
Chain Finish will stun the enemy for 1 second. It has an 8 seconds cooldown.
Chain Crush Combo has an 8 seconds cooldown.
Call Spirits reworked: It is now a passive ability. Call spirits will grant +5 ATK for each spirit sphere.
Dangerous Soul Collect now has a 1 minute cooldown and no longer has a cast time.
Explosion Spirits no longer reduce natural recovery of SP.
Asura Strike reworked:
Old: Asura strike can only be casted if the user is on Explosion Spirits buff and has 5 spirit sphere. After using Asura Strike HP/SP will not regenerate normally for 5 minutes.
New: Asura strike can be used at any time. After using Asura Strike SP will not regenerate normally or by items for 3 minutes. If Asura Strike is used with Explosion Spirits buff and 5 spirit spheres, it will not consume any SP nor will it restrict SP regeneration.
Absorb spirit sphere is now self-cast. The skill will consume 1 spirit sphere and heal the Champion 300% of ATK.
Throw Spirit Sphere will now target allies. It will heal 300% of the Champion's ATK per spirit sphere.
Blade Stop is now a target skill, can be used at any time (no longer require the player to "catch" attacks) and lasts up to 6 seconds. While in freeze condition, the Champion can cast Throw Sphere and Asura Strike.
High Wizard
Character_HighWizard.jpg
Fire Pillar no longer require Blue Gemstone.
Each spirit from Soul Strike will cause the target to take extra damage from consecutive Soul Strike (up to 150% extra damage). This effect will also cause your Napalm Beat to deal damage equal to the target's MaxHP (up to 30%). Napalm Beat bonus damage does not work on bosses.
Safety Wall no longer require Blue Gemstone. It now has a 25 seconds cooldown.
Gravitation Field is now a channeling spell and last up to 6 seconds.
Professor
Character_Professor.jpg
Each spirit from Soul Strike will cause the target to take extra damage from consecutive Soul Strike (up to 150% extra damage). This effect will also cause your Napalm Beat to deal damage equal to the target's MaxHP (up to 30%). This bonus damage does not work on bosses.
Soul Burn will no longer fail and will burn 5%/10%/15%/20%/25% of the target's SP and deal twice the SP burned.
Spells cast by Auto Spell no longer cost any SP
Successful Magic Rod will make the Sage cast the spell back to the user.
Autospell will also trigger when a player cast a target-able spell.
Advanced Book will also increase MATK by 3 per level.
Spider Web no longer require Cobweb. It has a 15 seconds cooldown.
Dragonology skill will now grant +2 MDEF per level.
Safety Wall no longer require Blue Gemstone. It now has a 25 seconds cooldown.
Deluge, Violent Gale, Volcano, Frost Weapon, Lightning Loader and Flame Launcher no longer require reagents.
Whitesmith
Character_Whitesmith.jpg
Vending will now reduce Mammonite zeny requirement up to 90%.
Skin Tempering will also grant up to 25% damage reduction.
Iron Tempering will also grant up to 25 DEF.
Steel Tempering will also grant up to 5% DEF bonus.
Enchanted Stone Craft will also grant up to 25% MDEF.
Ore Discovery will also grant up to 15% bonus HIT.
Research Oridecon will also grant up to 20% extra critical damage.
Weaponry Research will increase ATK up to 10%.
Smith Dagger, Smith Spear, Smith Sword, Smith Brass Knuckle, Smith Two-Handed Sword, Smith Mace and Smith Axe will each increase ATK by +1 per level.
Meltdown will has a chance to reduce Attack Power or Defense instead of breaking player's equipment.
Creator
Character_Creator.jpg
Vending will now reduce Mammonite zeny requirement up to 90%.
Potion Pitcher will no longer require potions but has 50 SP cost.
Slim Potion Pitcher will no longer require slim potions but has 150 SP cost.
Demonstration no longer require Bottle Grenade and will now has a chance to reduce Attack Power or Defense instead of breaking player's equipment. It has a 1-second cooldown and the stay-effect duration is set to 2/4/6/8/10 seconds.
Acid Terror no longer require Acid Bottle but has a 1 seconds fixed cast time and 100% change to bleed.
Acid Demonstration no longer require Bottle Grenade and Acid Bottle but has a 1 second fixed cast time. It now has a 10 seconds cooldown.
Homunculus no longer require reagents to create.
_____________________________________________________________________________
All I can say is this: Dust: An Elysian Tail was designed and programmed by a single person and it's amazing!
Quote from: Triper on Aug 17, 2015, 01:07 AM
All I can say is this: Dust: An Elysian Tail was designed and programmed by a single person and it's amazing!
I actually have not heard of this game. It looks amazing! Thanks for the share, Triper. Though I have tons of experience on programming, planning and design, I don't have any artistic skill nor resources to get em. But I'll look into how he was able to build such a game single-handedly. Thanks again! /no1
I don't recommend making an MMORPG alone, it's too much work and it will still suck. An MMORPG needs hundreds of people working on it to become good. But other games? Yeah, it's very well possible to make one of the best games completely alone if you have enough time to invest. Pixel worked alone on Cave Story for 10 years straight and then just released it for free and it became quite popular. Touhou, the most popular shoot 'em up series is also made by one single person (Zun). Generally the best stuff can be created by a single person because then there is no collision of opinions and if you are indie, no publisher that tells you to do something differently so it sells better.
The main problem is that it takes soooo much time to do it. Not many people can afford to just work for 10 years on a game. Or even manage to keep their motivation up till the end.
It looks like you're trying to brew something new and fresh while ignoring the version of the game that was created with the same purpose in mind and actually accomplished it in many aspects.
I don't understand why people still shun renewal so much when it offers a massive amount of new content, skills, mechanics, etc. You can tweak pre-renewal as much as you want but it just doesn't offer enough substance anymore, renewal is vastly superior when it comes to combat mechanics and variety. It is also a lot less one-dimensional and the game doesn't revolve around a couple of over-the-top skills to get anything done.
Does it have issues? Of course, but the same goes for pre-renewal. If I were in your position, I would work on improving renewal mechanics and content. There's a distinct lack of quality renewal servers yet generic trans servers that offer nothing new appear almost every week, mostly because it doesn't involve much development (if any) and tends to be profitable during the first month or two.
The problem that I can see is that, sadly, it would be hard to notice a hidden gem inside a such a big pile.
Another thing to consider is that a large portion of pre-renewal players nowadays are WoE/BG crowd that just wants free supplies and to mash their designated button while running multiple third-party programs and would surely ignore your server due to all the customizations, even if they are good.
Quote from: Terpsichore on Aug 17, 2015, 05:22 AMI don't understand why people still shun renewal so much when it offers a massive amount of new content, skills, mechanics, etc.
There are several threads in which we listed hundreds of reasons why renewal is so bad. It ruined what made RO special and unique and turned it into your average MMORPG that works with the masses.
Main points for me are still:
- ruins partying
- doesn't reward risk
- every class can do everything
Obviously the additional content isn't what players shun, that's why many pre-re servers even try to add the new maps with stats recalculated to pre-re.
You could of course also fix renewal itself, but that is a lot of work because one of the steps to fix it would be to remove the exp penalty, make all monsters harder and completely rewrite the exp value of each monster. Also remove or rebalance various 3rd class skills.
All of this can be fixed and improved though, and to be honest most of renewal changes are good, it's just a few rotten apples to take out and those are easy to spot. It's not like trans doesn't have it's fair share of serious issues as well, we're just used to them.
To address your points:
- ruins partying
I don't think so, solo grind is a lot slower and hardly efficient. Issue is that officials went overboard with cash shop boosts and broken gear so it looks like people just solo breeze through everything effortlessly, this is especially bad on kRO. The fact that after so many years there's a large amount of MvP cards and God gears in circulation doesn't help either. The game is actually pretty decent if you use "normal" stuff.
- doesn't reward risk
I don't exactly understand what do you mean by this but the trans "meta" is the epitome of playing as safe as possible and taking no risks, maximum cheese in PvM, only builds optimized for cannon fodder warfare in PvP and of course no variety at all.
- every class can do everything
No idea where you got this notion from but it's simply not true at all, the only difference is that all jobs can grind normal mobs and advance by themselves, albeit slowly, which doesn't really apply to end-game or PvP. Support roles are as defined as always and pure damage dealers excel at it by a long shot.
QuoteI don't think so, solo grind is a lot slower and hardly efficient.
You must have been playing a different renewal. It's well known that solo grind is the only viable way to level up in renewal. This is mostly caused by the way exp of monsters works (and drops too in case of kRO). To get the best Exp/HP ratio, you always fight the easiest monster that still gives you 100% Exp. You can easily solo kill such a monster and there's no reason to team up, because if you team up you still can't kill double as fast (assuming you move together and fight together), but your exp per monsters is almost halved.
In pre-renewal it was so that if you were in a group you could fight much harder monsters that can't be defeated solo, but in renewal those monsters wouldn't even give you Exp due to "No exp if monster level is too high".
QuoteI don't exactly understand what do you mean by this but the trans "meta" is the epitome of playing as safe as possible and taking no risks
See above... in pre-renewal you could for example go to Bio 3. Really high risk to die, but if you survive, you actually get 20 times the amount of XP than when facing easier monsters. In renewal Bio 3 monsters hardly give more exp than any other monster, the only reason to fight them is because you are high level and the XP penalty kicked in for all other regions.
QuoteNo idea where you got this notion from but it's simply not true at all, the only difference is that all jobs can grind normal mobs and advance by themselves
That was the point, though. Every class can grind solo now rather than having to look for a party. I like it more if every class has that one thing it is good at and only when in a party the full potential is realized.
Hey! I was one of your first players! (Actually I think I was the first, I was the first to max anyways.) I was the High Priest, Aceso, haha. I loved the idea of the server and how everything worked but it slowly died when school started and people had things to do. :( I wouldn't mind seeing a revival of it, though, I haven't found any other servers like it yet.
This actually opens up a great question to whether it is better to customize pre-renewal or renewal. To be honest, I have more experience on Pre-Renewal than Renewal (incoming potential bias!). Both of you carry valid points on the pros and cons for both sides but here are my reason to why I choose Pre-Renewal:
1.
Updates: While Terpsichore point is valid: Why choose frame with less features/updates? This is actually my biggest concern, is actually to keep up with possible new updates AFTER my release. There will be a HUGE modification on almost every aspect of the game, keeping up with new expansion or patches from the original games would be too costly. Surely, one may argue, "Nobody ask you to keep up, just use it as starting point". I actually have experience developing a server using the latest patch/emulator and it was a nightmare to keep up with players demand to get hold of new features ASAP. Not mentioning new bugs or conflict introduced in the newer patch. In short, I prefer to keep introducing MY updates (already lined-up two expansions on the server) instead of letting renewal steer the wheel, which brings me to my next point:
2.
Split Directions: There's no doubt that the new features are amazing and good to have in a server, but many of them is not the direction that I would want to go. Since the server I'm building (or planning) is heavily customized, I need to design the game to introduce and allow players to get used to MY features instead of teaching them renewal. This reduces the amount of time players need to invest to learn the new basics of the game.
I would list a few more but I'm actually at work right now, so I'll leave it to just two points for now. These are the big ones. Feel free to share your opinion (there's no wrong ones, you're free to go against what I think).
Quote from: TonyStark on Aug 17, 2015, 03:31 PM
Hey! I was one of your first players! (Actually I think I was the first, I was the first to max anyways.) I was the High Priest, Aceso, haha. I loved the idea of the server and how everything worked but it slowly died when school started and people had things to do. :( I wouldn't mind seeing a revival of it, though, I haven't found any other servers like it yet.
I definitely remember you! Thank you so much for your participation and support /lv. I learned a lot from reviews and suggestion I get from BETA players! The revival is going to be bigger (since I graduated, I have more resources (time & money) to invest on the game. Will announce when it is finalized.
Well there is few flaw in original game design...
Flaws appear when news and updates keep pile up ...
RO original game design was simple but magnificient
Thief = Dodge , hard to hit
Swordman = Hit hard, Tank
Mage = Easy to kill, Impossible to avoid
Archer = Long range, Run away
Acolyte = Can't be killed, Can't kill
The problem was : Acolty player couldn't level up alone .. so game content made sure, players couldn't play alone in higher level dungeon.
Because thief was abble to dodge unlimited monster, they were the perfect tank
So team was easy as a duo
thief+mage/archer
swordman+acolyte
mage+acolye
2 factors ruined the game ... when 2nd class appear
POTS and flee/def reduction. Because of those , most players could solo level and ended up the MMORPG concept.
When they added 2-2 class, they added new negatives factors
1 hit kill and bypass flee/def. Because of those, build like pure agi was nearly impossible for hunter/assassin, but also it make monk and crusader tremendously strong ( build like pure DEX/INT crusa was OVER killing everyone without a chance )
When 1 build can kill 99.99% of any others build, it kill the concept of variance that was so magnificient in Ragnarok.
They added again advanced class , buffed Assassin with also a 1 HIT KILL, pretty much all class went buffed with a 1 HIT KILL, killing the concept of build and render the game a course of balanced VIT+1 HIT KILL.
You should go back to the basis
no reduction of flee/def, no skill to bypass def or flee, no pot without skill recovery, no delay between respawn, less useless map and more monsters per map.
Quoterenewal is vastly superior when it comes to combat mechanics and variety
pve
pre renewal : anubis trolololol
renewal : magma dungeon then goes to hunt on boss type monster from 120-175
pvp
pre renewal : da holy triangle (Champion - AssX - Proff)
renewal : anything except AB - Wanderer/Minstrel
woe
pre renewal : stack stack stack
renewal : full frontal woe (unless the defending guild knows how to run one cell strategy)
Better ? maybe. Vastly superior ? NOPE
Quotedoesn't revolve around a couple of over-the-top skills to get anything done.
Arrow Storm pretty much destroy both PvE and MvP aspect. While in PvP there are several skill that does it (vary between emulator used by server)
Quote- ruins partying
I don't think so, solo grind is a lot slower and hardly efficient. Issue is that officials went overboard with cash shop boosts and broken gear so it looks like people just solo breeze through everything effortlessly, this is especially bad on kRO. The fact that after so many years there's a large amount of MvP cards and God gears in circulation doesn't help either. The game is actually pretty decent if you use "normal" stuff.
Solo grind is the fastest way to level , even with crap gears. Been there done that on a lot server to the point already lost count how many.
QuoteYou must have been playing a different renewal. It's well known that solo grind is the only viable way to level up in renewal. This is mostly caused by the way exp of monsters works (and drops too in case of kRO). To get the best Exp/HP ratio, you always fight the easiest monster that still gives you 100% Exp. You can easily solo kill such a monster and there's no reason to team up, because if you team up you still can't kill double as fast (assuming you move together and fight together), but your exp per monsters is almost halved.
Basically after Scaraba bottleneck its either you quest , hunt boss type mobs or MvP. Grinding normal mobs after 160++ are stupid.
QuoteIn pre-renewal it was so that if you were in a group you could fight much harder monsters that can't be defeated solo, but in renewal those monsters wouldn't even give you Exp due to "No exp if monster level is too high".
See above... in pre-renewal you could for example go to Bio 3. Really high risk to die, but if you survive, you actually get 20 times the amount of XP than when facing easier monsters. In renewal Bio 3 monsters hardly give more exp than any other monster, the only reason to fight them is because you are high level and the XP penalty kicked in for all other regions.
Bio 4
Scaraba 3
Revamped Guild Dungeon
Verus
Fire Basin
Eclage Tower
Several new Instance (OGH , FQ , CT Nightmare , GH Nightmare , Geffen Tournament)
They got more exp but the reward doesnt worth the risk (like anubis vs bio 3 in pre renewal).
Quote from: annaquin on Aug 17, 2015, 07:03 PM
Well there is few flaw in original game design...
Flaws appear when news and updates keep pile up ...
RO original game design was simple but magnificient
Thief = Dodge , hard to hit
Swordman = Hit hard, Tank
Mage = Easy to kill, Impossible to avoid
Archer = Long range, Run away
Acolyte = Can't be killed, Can't kill
The problem was : Acolty player couldn't level up alone .. so game content made sure, players couldn't play alone in higher level dungeon.
Because thief was abble to dodge unlimited monster, they were the perfect tank
So team was easy as a duo
thief+mage/archer
swordman+acolyte
mage+acolye
2 factors ruined the game ... when 2nd class appear
POTS and flee/def reduction. Because of those , most players could solo level and ended up the MMORPG concept.
When they added 2-2 class, they added new negatives factors
1 hit kill and bypass flee/def. Because of those, build like pure agi was nearly impossible for hunter/assassin, but also it make monk and crusader tremendously strong ( build like pure DEX/INT crusa was OVER killing everyone without a chance )
When 1 build can kill 99.99% of any others build, it kill the concept of variance that was so magnificient in Ragnarok.
They added again advanced class , buffed Assassin with also a 1 HIT KILL, pretty much all class went buffed with a 1 HIT KILL, killing the concept of build and render the game a course of balanced VIT+1 HIT KILL.
You should go back to the basis
no reduction of flee/def, no skill to bypass def or flee, no pot without skill recovery, no delay between respawn, less useless map and more monsters per map.
Yeap, these are the flaws that I would like to fix (or at least try to). But again, it has to be done slowly. Any drastic changes would make players feel out-of-place. They ch0ose to play Ragnarok Online afterall. ;)
Quote from: annaquin on Aug 17, 2015, 07:03 PM
Well there is few flaw in original game design...
Flaws appear when news and updates keep pile up ...
RO original game design was simple but magnificient
Thief = Dodge , hard to hit
Swordman = Hit hard, Tank
Mage = Easy to kill, Impossible to avoid
Archer = Long range, Run away
Acolyte = Can't be killed, Can't kill
The problem was : Acolty player couldn't level up alone .. so game content made sure, players couldn't play alone in higher level dungeon.
Because thief was abble to dodge unlimited monster, they were the perfect tank
So team was easy as a duo
thief+mage/archer
swordman+acolyte
mage+acolye
2 factors ruined the game ... when 2nd class appear
POTS and flee/def reduction. Because of those , most players could solo level and ended up the MMORPG concept.
When they added 2-2 class, they added new negatives factors
1 hit kill and bypass flee/def. Because of those, build like pure agi was nearly impossible for hunter/assassin, but also it make monk and crusader tremendously strong ( build like pure DEX/INT crusa was OVER killing everyone without a chance )
When 1 build can kill 99.99% of any others build, it kill the concept of variance that was so magnificient in Ragnarok.
They added again advanced class , buffed Assassin with also a 1 HIT KILL, pretty much all class went buffed with a 1 HIT KILL, killing the concept of build and render the game a course of balanced VIT+1 HIT KILL.
You should go back to the basis
no reduction of flee/def, no skill to bypass def or flee, no pot without skill recovery, no delay between respawn, less useless map and more monsters per map.
Hum, you have just summarized the reasons I though of this http://forum.ratemyserver.net/server-discussion/a-new-kind-of-classic-server/ (http://forum.ratemyserver.net/server-discussion/a-new-kind-of-classic-server/)
Glad to see actually a lot of people think the same about this game. It's way easier to fix on pre-transcended classes.
I saw your server ..... technically I think skill content in Raganrok indeed should be more different.
One way to acheive is specialisation.. but the second way is combination.
I studied Dragon Nest and tried to explain why it failed the same way as RAgnarok ... players were enjoying the fairness of PVP the tremedous speed and action as well as combo. But .. at some point, some skill have more DPS than others...
Game content and entertainment are too differents things... that's why I am not bored to play S4 League at some point where there is no new game contents at all.
PVP in RAgnarok fail because it does lack a goal ... In Guild Wars, PVP has a meaning , Battleground in Ragnarok had a meaning but it's like a total different game... and you need to play against others that don't do battleground at all.
1st class skill skill should have more versatility than 2nd class skill and ...
So fire bolt should have a level factor of 200%
10 MATK x 200% x base level should be the correct formula
Turning wizard should lower the factor of 50% making fire bolt 10 MATK x 150% x base level
Turning high wizard should continue with 50% and warlock 50%
So a warlock with very large SP , can do 10 MATK x 50% x base level
Also leveling shouldn't be with rebirth process ( stupid commercial idea ) but more like
novice->mage->wizard->high wizard->warlock
There is plenty servers that actually implemented modification and upgrades in order to get the experiences of players more happy.
There is some new good things in renewal, like combo that were totally forgotten in Ragnarok design.
I don't despise 1 Hit kill skill... but the fact that DPS character and smart player can't play is stupid.
Clever way to kill in kRO with Warlock was WI~Gravity Field~WI~Gravity Field .. a very long process that has 90% ^ n chance to kill.
Those are combination and combo...
The stupidity of monk having 30% chance to enter into a combo stance while been in close combat and need to hit armor ??? What the...
To summarize, the general failure of RO private server community is coming from owner , not debating and not arguing in order to move forward with a 100% agreement on changes.
The best way to changes skill is not to do it alone on your private server but to actually agree with community to vote for a general change and let Gravity keep failing.
To my point of view, there should be no valid reason for a mage lvl 150 to not be able to kill a warlock lvl 150, except from skill of the players only.
Join WOE in kRO and you will see the ridiculous stupidy of Comet Spam with fire pillar plant. The game eliminate any possibilities for versatility for WOE. In PVP , you simply can't counter cloak+cursed circle or GX cloak pressure OC, what is the meaning of this ? That's not competitiv, it's artificial hard mode where you simply can't but retaliate somehow with ygg and then start to play.
I like the venom splasher with contamination effect , geniuly good design... In renewal they were a new concept of game poison spore that would actually drain HP, some timid attempt where made to design the necromancer class ( a mix between chaser and wizard )
So yeah new classes are missing for completion.
necromancer ( undead skill , poison skill )
shaman ( ghost skill, dark skill )
summoner ( create dead branch type , minion stuff )
berseker , geomancer, timemage, mimic , lanceur ( lance jumper like in FF7 )
vampire ( ... )
May be a poll per skill changes should help to make an agreement between everyone ( server runner, players , etc.. )
This guy voiced out my idea.
Mark my words I will make a better private server focusing on the problems stressed below
Well there is few flaw in original game design...
Flaws appear when news and updates keep pile up ...
RO original game design was simple but magnificient
Thief = Dodge , hard to hit
Swordman = Hit hard, Tank
Mage = Easy to kill, Impossible to avoid
Archer = Long range, Run away
Acolyte = Can't be killed, Can't kill
The problem was : Acolty player couldn't level up alone .. so game content made sure, players couldn't play alone in higher level dungeon.
Because thief was abble to dodge unlimited monster, they were the perfect tank
So team was easy as a duo
thief+mage/archer
swordman+acolyte
mage+acolye
2 factors ruined the game ... when 2nd class appear
POTS and flee/def reduction. Because of those , most players could solo level and ended up the MMORPG concept.
When they added 2-2 class, they added new negatives factors
1 hit kill and bypass flee/def. Because of those, build like pure agi was nearly impossible for hunter/assassin, but also it make monk and crusader tremendously strong ( build like pure DEX/INT crusa was OVER killing everyone without a chance )
When 1 build can kill 99.99% of any others build, it kill the concept of variance that was so magnificient in Ragnarok.
They added again advanced class , buffed Assassin with also a 1 HIT KILL, pretty much all class went buffed with a 1 HIT KILL, killing the concept of build and render the game a course of balanced VIT+1 HIT KILL.
You should go back to the basis
no reduction of flee/def, no skill to bypass def or flee, no pot without skill recovery, no delay between respawn, less useless map and more monsters per map.
Yeah, potions in RO always made me cringe. This is one of my biggest challenge due to many reasons but mainly because players would go /omg if something is drastically changed. This means that I would need a design a way to teach the players on the new potion mechanics (if I actually have one that is).
Talking about teaching, I'm quite disappointed with the game tutorial. I mean, do they really expect players to read those long text? They kept on adding new end-content but ignore updating the old ones. It felt as if they gave up on getting new players (well maybe they did). It would be my dream to remake the tutorial to make it more engaging than it is so that players would be able to learn better. But again, this takes too much time and effort for one man to do. What do you guys think about the training ground/tutorial (or did I miss any new updates on this)?
I, too, dislike the concept of 1-hit kills (not just in RO). PvP combat would feel like "who-can-hit-first while spamming potions" rather than using your strategy and skills. This is the reason why my main focus is to improve skills that were least used or considered "weak" and introduce a few more ways to play a class. All of this is done with minimal "nerfing" on skills that is considered too strong, so that players would still be able to play the old way if they prefer.
Changing potting in RO can't be done without balancing the "weak" class against the 1hit kill...
In very competitive area, ygg is the only way to retaliate from a 99.99% HP drop. The concept of Ranger -> you need to LOCK your opponent on a trap -> ankle Snare ->Arrow Shower-> Lex Scroll -> Aimed Bolt ( 1 hit kill ) is correct design
Some skill shouldn't even exist :
"Pinpoint LVL 3,4"
Pinpoint will break unprotected shield -> ( 30% dmg reduction gone ) .. technically it reduce the total list of shield available to only 1 "sacred mission[1]". For any others classes, having a shield is simply useless ( you either protect against break and don't reduce dmg, or reduc dmg and let it breakable ). No CHOICE = BAD DESIGN
"Dragon Combo, Fallen Empire, Gate Hell"
11% stun .. why adding this effect , where fallen empire will grant 2.5s LOCK status right behind , making the whole string a door for GateHell.
DG,FE,Ygg + GoH make all other build ridiculously useless and make no other choice for others to build a character ( you need to maximize your VIT in order to survive a full maxed GoH everytime ). No CHOICE = BAD DESIGN
"Oblivion Curse". The RETARD above all. The game is all based on skill but all of sudden, a simple PRESSURE+OC render all the game useless. And again all players MUST HAVE a Shura/Arcbishop/GX nearby. No CHOICE = BAD DESIGN
Edit :
I think potting should be allowed but from Alchemist only.
ONE HUGE FLAW in Ragnarok is the total unfair game content offer to assist.
Healing, Buff, Recover, Lock, etc... all those actions are assist but totally unrewarded. You could heal a tanker from millions of MVP and get nothing at all but beg the tanker for sharing MVP item.
Quote from: ShadowLight on Aug 19, 2015, 02:19 AM
Talking about teaching, I'm quite disappointed with the game tutorial. I mean, do they really expect players to read those long text? They kept on adding new end-content but ignore updating the old ones. It felt as if they gave up on getting new players (well maybe they did). It would be my dream to remake the tutorial to make it more engaging than it is so that players would be able to learn better. But again, this takes too much time and effort for one man to do. What do you guys think about the training ground/tutorial (or did I miss any new updates on this)?
IMO, even though we know that most people really don't read them, atleast there's a tutorial if someone might wanna read it. More like I'd say to a newbie player: " I've already included everything you need to know on the tutorial i made, all you need to do now is to read it ".
But ofc learning a game is easier while playing it, i could say tutorials are a big help for starters.
EDIT: So maybe making it like some sort of a NPC that says " Press ALT + E to open your inventory " stuff plus they won't be able to move to the next tutorial NPC until they've done that and once the player does it, the NPC will give him/her rewards (EXP, zeny or etc).
The best tutorial is to start playing with an experienced player.
Quote from: Mary Magdalene on Aug 19, 2015, 05:51 PM
IMO, even though we know that most people really don't read them, atleast there's a tutorial if someone might wanna read it. More like I'd say to a newbie player: " I've already included everything you need to know on the tutorial i made, all you need to do now is to read it ".
But ofc learning a game is easier while playing it, i could say tutorials are a big help for starters.
EDIT: So maybe making it like some sort of a NPC that says " Press ALT + E to open your inventory " stuff plus they won't be able to move to the next tutorial NPC until they've done that and once the player does it, the NPC will give him/her rewards (EXP, zeny or etc).
I've personally read a few papers and actually had a chance to discuss about it (game tutorial) with real game developers last year. Here are a couple of reasons why I believe the Ragnarok Tutorial should be updated/changed:
- Too many long text: I brought a few of my friends to try Ragnarok Online last year and it is obvious that players will start to lose interest and spam next after 5 minutes in the training ground. This is definitely biggest mistake in the book to design any tutorial.
- "What was the key again? Let me go back to .... oh wait!" : Whether or not the players read the text from the NPCs in the training ground (highly doubt it), it is almost certain that they won't remember it. And will they be able to go back to the training grounds? NO. And this is a BIG FLAW in the tutorial design.
Tutorial 101: Make the tutorial a fun experience, players would learn and remember better. And they should always be allowed to go back to specific sections in case they want to relearn specific mechanics. I can go on and on but I'll just focus on this one point for now.
Quote from: Playtester on Aug 20, 2015, 07:34 AM
The best tutorial is to start playing with an experienced player.
I have to agree that this is true for social games but sadly, Ragnarok Online seemed to be losing this. I used to remember back in the days where it is easy to party up or ask questions to strangers. But now, it feels more like a single player game (opinions & experience from my friends and I, doesn't apply to all). They were either ignored (probably bots), or the players would say they are busy with leveling. Players today seemed to move away from partying as it feels more punishing (for some reason) to do so. Just so you know, my friends are the friendliest bunch you can find, and they would never be rude to ask for help.
This is one of many reasons I would like to focus on re-ignite the social aesthetic of ragnarok online. Start to reward players for working together to solve problems/leveling - without punishing those who prefers playing alone.
Cheers,
ShadowLight
Maybe you are just not playing on the right servers? I personally have introduced more than 100 people to the game by now.
RO generally is a very party-friendly game (pre-re anyway) with a very friendly community, so it isn't actually all that hard to find someone willing to help a new player.
Quote from: ShadowLight on Aug 20, 2015, 02:47 PM
I've personally read a few papers and actually had a chance to discuss about it (game tutorial) with real game developers last year. Here are a couple of reasons why I believe the Ragnarok Tutorial should be updated/changed:
- Too many long text: I brought a few of my friends to try Ragnarok Online last year and it is obvious that players will start to lose interest and spam next after 5 minutes in the training ground. This is definitely biggest mistake in the book to design any tutorial.
- "What was the key again? Let me go back to .... oh wait!" : Whether or not the players read the text from the NPCs in the training ground (highly doubt it), it is almost certain that they won't remember it. And will they be able to go back to the training grounds? NO. And this is a BIG FLAW in the tutorial design.
Tutorial 101: Make the tutorial a fun experience, players would learn and remember better. And they should always be allowed to go back to specific sections in case they want to relearn specific mechanics. I can go on and on but I'll just focus on this one point for now.
Uh, so i dunno how would i teach people in-game without any written text stuff unless you go make your own RO video tutorial if you don't want them to ' read long text's ' and instead ' watch ' it. And i guess making some sort of reminding-tutorial NPC so they wont go back to training grounds in case they forgot some game mechanics? There's really lots of simple way for that. . .
I guess one thing that could help you with this tutorial you're planning is visit other MMO games and see how their tutorial system works and get some ideas from it.
Quote from: Mary Magdalene on Aug 21, 2015, 09:21 PM
Uh, so i dunno how would i teach people in-game without any written text stuff unless you go make your own RO video tutorial if you don't want them to ' read long text's ' and instead ' watch ' it. And i guess making some sort of reminding-tutorial NPC so they wont go back to training grounds in case they forgot some game mechanics? There's really lots of simple way for that. . .
I guess one thing that could help you with this tutorial you're planning is visit other MMO games and see how their tutorial system works and get some ideas from it.
Here's a pretty good video on tutorial that I like:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BCPcn-Q5nKE (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BCPcn-Q5nKE)
Let me know what you think.
Quote from: ShadowLight on Aug 21, 2015, 11:32 PM
Here's a pretty good video on tutorial that I like:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BCPcn-Q5nKE (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BCPcn-Q5nKE)
Let me know what you think.
Well i just seriously dunno what kind of tutorial do you want, it sounds like you want your tutorial stuff to be that 100%
perfect where i can't even expect that ALL of the players will read / use it or whatever you want it is to make and also because players have their own style of playing [ to be solo, with friends or whatever ] and you can't do anything about it.
but in my own opinion as a player i seriously don't care if the tutorial text is long / time-taking or what as long as it teaches me the
BASICS of the game because with just the basics i could already start over and i could learn more while playing it further or like Playtester said, ask an experienced friend on the game or someone experienced to teach you more of it.
Here is my thought for tutorials:
Create a leader-board for the tutorial and rank each players based on proficiency.
Then integrate the leader-board on the website for all to see. (very important)
Call the tutorial location a 'academy' or 'university' or any academic facility.
Reward players with 'praise', item packages, and level boost on tutorial completion.
Reassure players that ranked low on the leader-board.
Script the NPC dialogue to be 'displease' with players opting out of the tutorial, then allow them a chance to take the tutorial.
Last and most importantly, make sure the tutorial isn't garbage and that it is written by someone who mastered the game as a player.
Make sure you can assign points per completed exercise to perform the rank calculations.
This works by manipulating players on a psychological level; their fears on failing in academics (tutorial location), fears on being a loser (rank low on leaderboard), and fears on displeasing authority (the NPC); supposedly aim at students, arrogant men, and submissive men / female respectively. (students and arrogant men make up a very large population of the game). Again, don't forget to reward and reassure players on tutorial completion.
Don't worry about writing tutorials for pinoy and brs. They won't understand it anyways. Plus their XYZ friend or cousin is already a 'pro' hacker.
Quote from: Mary Magdalene on Aug 22, 2015, 09:17 AM
Well i just seriously dunno what kind of tutorial do you want, it sounds like you want your tutorial stuff to be that 100% perfect where i can't even expect that ALL of the players will read / use it or whatever you want it is to make and also because players have their own style of playing [ to be solo, with friends or whatever ] and you can't do anything about it.
but in my own opinion as a player i seriously don't care if the tutorial text is long / time-taking or what as long as it teaches me the BASICS of the game because with just the basics i could already start over and i could learn more while playing it further or like Playtester said, ask an experienced friend on the game or someone experienced to teach you more of it.
Yes, sadly this is one of my many flaw /sob (trying to be perfectionist - ended up wasting resources for it). Just wanted to hear you guys' opinion on this and I do understand more about how you guys feel about the tutorial. I'm about to start opening up the server soon and I just want to know more about what you guys think we should improve in the game.
FYI, building this server is not my primary goal. This is a platform for me to understand more about game design for my future original game. RO private server just happen to be one of the cheapest way for me to test out my ideas.
Quote from: Bue on Aug 22, 2015, 02:43 PM
Here is my thought for tutorials:
Create a leader-board for the tutorial and rank each players based on proficiency.
Then integrate the leader-board on the website for all to see. (very important)
Call the tutorial location a 'academy' or 'university' or any academic facility.
Reward players with 'praise', item packages, and level boost on tutorial completion.
Reassure players that ranked low on the leader-board.
Script the NPC dialogue to be 'displease' with players opting out of the tutorial, then allow them a chance to take the tutorial.
Last and most importantly, make sure the tutorial isn't garbage and that it is written by someone who mastered the game as a player.
Make sure you can assign points per completed exercise to perform the rank calculations.
This works by manipulating players on a psychological level; their fears on failing in academics (tutorial location), fears on being a loser (rank low on leaderboard), and fears on displeasing authority (the NPC); supposedly aim at students, arrogant men, and submissive men / female respectively. (students and arrogant men make up a very large population of the game). Again, don't forget to reward and reassure players on tutorial completion.
Don't worry about writing tutorials for pinoy and brs. They won't understand it anyways. Plus their XYZ friend or cousin is already a 'pro' hacker.
Yeah that is a good idea actually. I planned to do like a "Naruto-style" academy. Letting players get achievements for different level. Having "Proving Grounds" to let players get titles for finishing a challenge would make the player more desirable to be in a guild - who wouldn't want someone who's "qualified" as a good player?
I'm just thinking of making the tutorial part of the leveling process - or breadcrumbs (beyond novice training grounds). I am in no way trying to hinder player's creativity to play their style. Just to focus on the important aspect of the game (especially when a server is heavily customized).
NOTE: I'm NOT trying to make the tutorial compulsory by any means. Just an alternative for new or returning players to sharpen their basic skills.
Do not call it a Naruto academy. (This is Midgard.) (How old are you?)
Do not reward achievements.
The point wasn't to make the tutorial mandatory.
You can treat it as a proficiency test to let players know where they stand.
New players can take the proficiency test with NPC help, but penalty of ranking lower.
The point is to help all players get started on your server.
That was the point of the item packages and level or job boost.
(Let player choose job and graduate them to their first class at the end. This idea isn't new.)
Quote from: Bue on Aug 22, 2015, 03:11 PM
Do not call it a Naruto academy. (This is Midgard.) (How old are you?)
He never said that he would call it Naruto Academy, he said he was planning to make a 'Naruto style' academy. The difference is clear.
Quote from: Bue on Aug 22, 2015, 03:11 PM
Do not reward achievements.
The point wasn't to make the tutorial mandatory.
You can treat it as a proficiency test to let players know where they stand.
Rewarding achievements is actually a good thing, it makes players think they're not losing time by learning how to play. Even more if they have never touched anything Ro-related.
If the gaming content had any value, then it won't be a waste of time in the first place and you won't need to build an entire achievement system to provide players with an incentive to complete it.
Besides, the misused of achievements in games has made it a joke.
Quote from: Bue on Aug 22, 2015, 08:46 PM
If the gaming content had any value, then it won't be a waste of time in the first place and you won't need to build an entire achievement system to provide players with an incentive to complete it.
Besides, the misused of achievements in games has made it a joke.
You're right, if the tutorial is essential, it shouldn't be an achievement. But my plan is to provide reward (by giving achievement + small reward) for players who did a complete run through the tutorial, meaning that we have non-essential part of the tutorial that the players can do or skip. Players can always go back and complete it which is good for those who want to know more (or achievement-whores /heh).
The misuse of achievement system is definitely true for many games especially if it is used for the main content of a game. The true purpose (
based on many designer's opinion) is to provide a small reward players for finding something that is not part of the main story or content. For example, one can simply add in achievements like "Killing 25 poring in 10 seconds" or "Captured 10 different pets". Does this have value to the main story? No, not really, but SOME players do love it. They feel awesome for discovering those kind of achievements.
- These are my opinions (doesn't mean I'm right). But I'm more than happy to hear you guys' thought and arguments. This is a forum afterall ;)
Cheers!
Quote from: Bue on Aug 22, 2015, 08:46 PM
If the gaming content had any value, then it won't be a waste of time in the first place and you won't need to build an entire achievement system to provide players with an incentive to complete it.
No. People think tutorials have no impact on a game besides learning how to play it, they don't consider it gaming content. Rewarding achievements counters it.
Wanted to try, sadly to see server f*** up... i mean.. can't register properly, patcher fail to patch, full client download time 7 hours and after downloading it, files are corrupted...
Quote from: ShadowLight on Aug 23, 2015, 02:17 AM
- These are my opinions (doesn't mean I'm right). But I'm more than happy to hear you guys' thought and arguments. This is a forum afterall ;)
For a mid-rate Ragnarok server, the standard reward is to allow players to skip the early game.
As a policy, the 'tutorial' should be optional or partial.
The 'tutorial' will consist of a series of 'test' and each test will consist of a series of 'puzzles.'
Each 'puzzle' will reward the player by supplying early game item / equipment or base / job level experience.
Each 'test' will reward the player with larger rewards like cards or level to next job tier.
The final reward for completing the 'tutorial' will be based on the player's proficiency, i.e. the total number of points collected for each puzzle. The reward can range from raising the base or job level to rebirthing the player's class.
EXAMPLEYou probably have to re-word the question into something friendlier.
Puzzle
Spoiler
Given X amount of elunium and Y amount of level 1, 2, and 3 armor, what refinement strategy produces the highest refine rate combined? (Provide a reference to the refine_db.txt table.)
Solution
Spoiler
Refine each level 1, 2, and 3 armor up to their safe refine rate assuming the elunium and armor amount is adjusted accordingly.
As you can see, the puzzle is neither easy or difficult, but requires some thinking and demonstrating or learning knowledge.
I think this is less devious than my earlier suggestion, less work compared to building an achievement system, and less of a joke.
Quote from: Malfis on Aug 24, 2015, 04:58 PM
Wanted to try, sadly to see server f*** up... i mean.. can't register properly, patcher fail to patch, full client download time 7 hours and after downloading it, files are corrupted...
Hi Malfis, I'm extremely sorry. I should have mentioned this earlier but the link you probably went to is the old BETA server. I had to leave the server months ago due to issues with the hosting company. Massive lag, DDOS and IPB was hacked multiple times. These problems have been reported again and again but was totally ignored by the hosting company.
I just bought a new server (literally just yesterday) and currently setting up the new website, forum and CP. I'll announce it in the "Server Advertisement" section when it is ready for official launch. I truly apologize for your trouble you had to go through. Let me know if you want me to send you a PM when it is announced.
Quote from: Bue on Aug 24, 2015, 11:34 PM
For a mid-rate Ragnarok server, the standard reward is to allow players to skip the early game.
As a policy, the 'tutorial' should be optional or partial.
The 'tutorial' will consist of a series of 'test' and each test will consist of a series of 'puzzles.'
Each 'puzzle' will reward the player by supplying early game item / equipment or base / job level experience.
Each 'test' will reward the player with larger rewards like cards or level to next job tier.
The final reward for completing the 'tutorial' will be based on the player's proficiency, i.e. the total number of points collected for each puzzle. The reward can range from raising the base or job level to rebirthing the player's class.
EXAMPLE
You probably have to re-word the question into something friendlier.
PuzzleSpoiler
Given X amount of elunium and Y amount of level 1, 2, and 3 armor, what refinement strategy produces the highest refine rate combined? (Provide a reference to the refine_db.txt table.)
SolutionSpoiler
Refine each level 1, 2, and 3 armor up to their safe refine rate assuming the elunium and armor amount is adjusted accordingly.
As you can see, the puzzle is neither easy or difficult, but requires some thinking and demonstrating or learning knowledge.
I think this is less devious than my earlier suggestion, less work compared to building an achievement system, and less of a joke.
Yeap, that's what I was thinking too but my rewards are much "less". The server I'm building is very "party-oriented", though it might help those who plays the game alone, it might cause problem with players who want to level up together (possibly generating huge level gap).
So far, I've implemented reward (boosted exp & basic weapons) for completing it . Though I don't have it for the whole RO game. Just tutorial for the customized portion of the server.
We went from reinventing ragnarok to change tutorial WTF ???
Quote from: annaquin on Aug 25, 2015, 01:43 PM
We went from reinventing ragnarok to change tutorial WTF ???
I have to agree, we've chat about tutorial long enough - was a good discussion though. Let's talk about other factors/features that can be improved - there are a lot of them.
Here is few of my many
childish (note the word childish - not a great idea) dream:
Immersive adventure experience: Sure the teleport system is great - saves time and energy to travel ... BUT I secretly wish I have to travel (by foot/mount) to go to another city. There I'd be able to meet other travelers and see more of the world. The closest I get to realizing that dream is my idea of upgrading the airship. Players could take a chill pill and chat with one another on the ship while traveling to their next city. How about you guys? Do you have other ideas to make the adventure feels more "real" or to make it fun - without punishing players to spend time traveling?
Closest City Respawn Point: Instead of respawning at your save point, I'm thinking of making the player respawn to the closest city. What do you guys think about this idea? Any possible problems that might be introduced if this is implemented?
Quote from: ShadowLight on Aug 25, 2015, 02:32 PM
Immersive adventure experience: Sure the teleport system is great - saves time and energy to travel ... BUT I secretly wish I have to travel (by foot/mount) to go to another city. There I'd be able to meet other travelers and see more of the world. The closest I get to realizing that dream is my idea of upgrading the airship. Players could take a chill pill and chat with one another on the ship while traveling to their next city. How about you guys? Do you have other ideas to make the adventure feels more "real" or to make it fun - without punishing players to spend time traveling?
For travel to be interesting in RO to me I'd have to see
-Large cooldown or cost on fly wings.
-More 'stuff' around, some form of harvesting or add mini-bosses to every map. Most other MMO's have harvesting/exploration rewards and mounts to speed it up. RO has neither, though it's generally worth stopping to kill a boss you come across in RO
I just started everquest II again, on a new time-locked server(so currently it's as the game was in 2004) - old school travelling. There is enough to do while roaming and enough players that it is fun again. We barely have enough players on official EQ2 server, I can't really see RO pulling it off sadly.
I see no problem with respawning at closest city, or hell even "respawn on this map" as an option - again, every other MMO uses it, there simply not enough people walking around fields to give random res's these days.
Quote from: Orange on Aug 25, 2015, 06:45 PM
For travel to be interesting in RO to me I'd have to see
-Large cooldown or cost on fly wings.
-More 'stuff' around, some form of harvesting or add mini-bosses to every map. Most other MMO's have harvesting/exploration rewards and mounts to speed it up. RO has neither, though it's generally worth stopping to kill a boss you come across in RO
I just started everquest II again, on a new time-locked server(so currently it's as the game was in 2004) - old school travelling. There is enough to do while roaming and enough players that it is fun again. We barely have enough players on official EQ2 server, I can't really see RO pulling it off sadly.
I see no problem with respawning at closest city, or hell even "respawn on this map" as an option - again, every other MMO uses it, there simply not enough people walking around fields to give random res's these days.
Good to know someone had the same feeling for fly wings as well. They just destroy immersive aspect in the game. Same goes for teleportation skill (or card skill). I need to come up with a plan to modify them for more combat purpose.
I've already implemented mini-bosses on every map (players seem to love this feature the most!). I'm planning to add more things like world event. Perhaps a siren and warning on nearby city telling you there's a big creature approaching from the west. Players can react to be a hero (or just ignore and level up - not judging).
As for random ress, I plan to add a long-cd (1-hour perhaps?) ress skill for each job. Hopefully it would add value to meet random people or playing with friends.
Quote from: ShadowLight on Aug 25, 2015, 06:52 PM
Good to know someone had the same feeling for fly wings as well. They just destroy immersive aspect in the game. Same goes for teleportation skill (or card skill). I need to come up with a plan to modify them for more combat purpose.
I've already implemented mini-bosses on every map (players seem to love this feature the most!). I'm planning to add more things like world event. Perhaps a siren and warning on nearby city telling you there's a big creature approaching from the west. Players can react to be a hero (or just ignore and level up - not judging).
Yeah, combat-teleport just seems silly for an MMORPG. From mob dropping, to making farming "fwing double strafe, fwing double strafe repeat until overweight"
Are you able to disable it in combat? If so, do that + add fairly large CD should make it feel normal. Just read about the minibosses everywhere, do you have a server running ATM? If you do or looking at opening one could you PM me details, somewhat interested
Quote from: Orange on Aug 25, 2015, 06:59 PM
Yeah, combat-teleport just seems silly for an MMORPG. From mob dropping, to making farming "fwing double strafe, fwing double strafe repeat until overweight"
Are you able to disable it in combat? If so, do that + add fairly large CD should make it feel normal. Just read about the minibosses everywhere, do you have a server running ATM? If you do or looking at opening one could you PM me details, somewhat interested
It also favors those who bots. Perhaps a short range teleport (click on ground) with fairly high cd? That way you can use it in PvP as well.
I did a change on stalker's Snatch skill, check out the video from my first post, let me know what you think.
I'm about to open one and will be announcing it soon. One of my biggest server projects yet (you can see the changelog from my first post - that was actually a fraction of the changes).
I know the tutorial sub-topic is already shelved at this point, but I have a couple of points that might be useful. These are coming from my recent experience of bringing 2 totally fresh people into the game and teaching them how to play.
1. Integrate actual combat very early in the tutorial.
In the old tutorial system (and even in the new Criatura academy stuff they implemented), combat was put off until waaay later in the game. As people have said, it's just walls of text over and over. In the end, this game is centered around combat, not reading npc scripts, so it would be much better to let people learn while experiencing the essence of the game.
For example, when a player logs in for the first time, they're taught only how to walk and click on NPCs. They (optimally) should already have a knife equipped. The immediate next lesson is to kill a poring. From there, they're taught the value of EXPs and item drops, and consequentially, how to open the item, skill, status, and equipment windows.
2. Required level-specific tutorials.
I honestly don't play a lot of online games aside from RO, but from my experience, I prefer to learn new things as I go along, rather than learn everything in one sitting. For example, refining weapons and enchanting cards do not hold value to me until I'm, like, lvl 30+, as a new player. I think in the original training grounds, refining was omitted entirely from the tutorials, so new players are completely clueless about it, even moreso about cards and many other stuff about the game.
The idea I have is that, maybe you can make a system where a player gets an automated mail when they reach a certain level. The mail instructs them to go somewhere to learn something new. If possible, integrate the navigation system so players who want to participate in the tutorial doesn't feel lost.
--
Anyway, I really love what you've developed so far. I'm all for the idea of immersive play, with more focus on partying and exploring, rather than just going to the middle of nowhere to kill mobs then fly back home. It's probably not the mainstream RO gamer's cup of tea, but I'd love to see what comes out of it.
Quote from: Orange on Aug 25, 2015, 06:59 PM
Yeah, combat-teleport just seems silly for an MMORPG. From mob dropping, to making farming "fwing double strafe, fwing double strafe repeat until overweight"
Are you able to disable it in combat? If so, do that + add fairly large CD should make it feel normal. Just read about the minibosses everywhere, do you have a server running ATM? If you do or looking at opening one could you PM me details, somewhat interested
Isn't it that there's already a source mod where you cannot teleport for
x seconds when you're in combat with mobs or pvp? I think that's way better.
teleport is quite tricky...
There is when you are on low rate server the sting map, when young mage, it's the only map you need to actually toy with fly wing to reach. It's on underground 2 and you need to travel using fly wing to avoid tarou , cramp and gargoyle.
The danger is real and this is what make the game funny, leveling fast on high risky map.
So fly wing should be allowed as it is , with its randomness...
Teleport skill however, should be changed :
Teleport lvl 1 -> jump forward 9 cell away, 1 sec CD
Teleport lvl 2 -> jump forward 21 cell away, 2 sec CD
Teleport lvl 3 -> jump forward 3x3, 21 cell away, 3 sec CD -> grant Warp lvl 1
Teleport lvl 4 -> jump forward 7x7, 21 cell away, 4 sec CD
Teleport lvl 5 -> follow line of sight teleporter with all people in 11x11 , 5 sec CD -> MVP tracking, PVP teleport trackin, Emergency Call tracking
So a priest would become a far more strategical ally in MVP, PVE,PVP, BG,and GVG and changing location would reactive geomancy.
Of course some map, like emperium room or gvg barrier wouldn't allow this kind of skills to work , but spying and detecting an emergency call and seeing a guy flying you would make opportunities for a priest to be a critical threat.
Quote from: annaquin on Aug 27, 2015, 07:25 AM
teleport is quite tricky...
There is when you are on low rate server the sting map, when young mage, it's the only map you need to actually toy with fly wing to reach. It's on underground 2 and you need to travel using fly wing to avoid tarou , cramp and gargoyle.
The danger is real and this is what make the game funny, leveling fast on high risky map.
So fly wing should be allowed as it is , with its randomness...
Teleport skill however, should be changed :
Teleport lvl 1 -> jump forward 9 cell away, 1 sec CD
Teleport lvl 2 -> jump forward 21 cell away, 2 sec CD
Teleport lvl 3 -> jump forward 3x3, 21 cell away, 3 sec CD -> grant Warp lvl 1
Teleport lvl 4 -> jump forward 7x7, 21 cell away, 4 sec CD
Teleport lvl 5 -> follow line of sight teleporter with all people in 11x11 , 5 sec CD -> MVP tracking, PVP teleport trackin, Emergency Call tracking
So a priest would become a far more strategical ally in MVP, PVE,PVP, BG,and GVG and changing location would reactive geomancy.
Of course some map, like emperium room or gvg barrier wouldn't allow this kind of skills to work , but spying and detecting an emergency call and seeing a guy flying you would make opportunities for a priest to be a critical threat.
This is actually a very cool concept. I was actually planning to do changes somewhat similar to what you suggest while keeping the two level standard:
Level 1: Teleport randomly 9x9 cells around the user (with 8 seconds cooldown).
Level 2: Teleport to save points (same as previous level 2).
My main focus is to remove ALL skills that have use limitation on it (restriction on maps) and make it useful for BOTH PvE and PvP.
Quote from: ShadowLight on Aug 17, 2015, 12:19 AM
Hello guys,
I am an aspiring game programmer and designer (Electrical & Computer Engineer Degree w/ minor in Computer Science specializing in game design) who loves MMORPGs. As someone who grew up with games like Ragnarok, Maple Story and World of Warcraft, I always dream to have a game of my own but I believe that I need more experience developing it first. But developing my own game is very costly. So here I am, my first few steps towards that dream. I truly believe that I could make a successful private server, one day I would be able to start developing my own game.
I've been playing and experimenting on RO servers for almost 10 years now (man I'm getting old). I have experience as both server Admin/GM as well as developer (for server w/ more than 300 players at peak times). Some of you may know my from my previous private server idea: http://forum.ratemyserver.net/server-discussion/private-server-moving-forward/ (http://forum.ratemyserver.net/server-discussion/private-server-moving-forward/)
In case you're wondering, I did release a BETA version of the server and guess what? Players loved it! [Check the preview changelog at the end of this post!]
To summarize, here are a few server features that was tested and appreciated during the server BETA (yeap, this has already been implemented and tested):
- Point System: You will obtain points from killing Paragon (Custom Minibosses), MvPs or players. These points is shared among party members and can be used to buy equipments.
- Paragon Monsters: In every map, there will be 1 Paragon-type Monster for every 10 monster in the map. These monster are stronger and almost impossible to take on alone but contains an enormous amount of EXP and higher drops than the normal monsters. This encourages players to work together in order to defeat them and share the rewards!
- Skill buffs: There has been minor changes to many skills that introduces new way of playing a class. These changes gave birth to Soul Mages, Fistfury Monks, Lightburn Priests and many many more~!
- Spa Healing System: Unlike most servers, players will need to go to Spa in order to heal up. Players are rewarded with EXP boost upon leaving the Spa. Players actually loved this system, it allows players to take a break and socialize before going back to their adventure in Rune-Midgard.
- Upgraded Airship System: Players were able to travel from a city to another via Airship. This allows players to travel without losing the travel experience (and meet new people)! (http://ragnarokimmersion.com/img/AirshipRoute.png)
I opened the server on BETA for about two months to get reviews and opinions. And I have to say, most of them (about 15 players) truly enjoyed the server! They had a blast working together to defeat paragons and MvPs obtain points and gears! The only things missing is the common "Not enough players!" problem. To be fair, most players tend to stay away from BETA servers.
What I always dream of having in a game are these:
- Reintroduce social aspects of MMORPGs: No, I don't mean facebook games. I'm talking about games that rewards players for working together! So far, the Spa, Paragon Monsters, Airship and MvP Points did exactly this. These systems were designed to introduce social aesthetic on the server.
- Boost flexibility in combat: The custom skill design was introduce to add in more combat styles in the game. In addition to healer priest, other variation of healing were added to classes such as Paladin and Bard/Dancer. They are now more capable to heal but they way they do so is totally different from each other. This adds flexibility for players to play based on what they like/what their style is.
- Add in sense of adventure: This is a long-shot, but one of my initial work on this is the Custom Airship system. Players are able to feel as if they are on an adventure - not just getting level and kill monsters for no reason. I'm hoping to add in new content and questline to add in the wonderful fantasy world of Ragnarok Online. Adventure shouldn't stop just because you reach max level, it should be even better when you maxed out!
Sorry for the extremely long post! I can go on and on about this but I'll stop here before I scare away forumers. Let me know what you think!
Short video on class changes (this video is old so it only highlight about 30% of my changes - link is also old - DO NOT USE):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I0NLoCxrnkk (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I0NLoCxrnkk)
PS by Triper - Allowing the video to let people know about your ideas and stuff. Let's call it "borderline".
I need to know if you guys are interested before I release the official version of the server. I will be doing head-counts on my forum and announce if the server is ready to be released based on it.
Here's a preview changelog (not including all changes):
Spoiler
THE REVIVAL UPDATE
1.00 CHANGE LOG
GENERAL
Starting job changed to High Novice from Novice Class.
HP regeneration rate has been increased to 3 seconds up from 6 seconds.
SP regeneration rate has been increased to 4 seconds up from 8 seconds.
Teleport level 1 (from both skill and items) will now skip menu.
Removing poison status will cause the player to take damage depending on the remaining duration of the status.
LEVELING SYSTEM
Reworked experience required to level up.
Killing a monster while in a party will grant you extra EXP.
Experience calculation is set to calculate damaged done over maximum HP.
Kafra Employees offers job-changing and reset service.
ENVIRONMENT
Day and night cycle is set to 60 minutes.
NEW SYSTEMS
Card Removing Service
Inn Service
Innkeepers now offers teleport to Spa Service. The spa area will boost the player's regeneration rate and grant 50% extra EXP upon leaving the room.
CLASS CHANGES
Swordsman
Knights
Auto Counter stance will no longer break when attacked. The player will keep on blocking and counterattack for its duration. It now has a fixed 12 seconds cooldown.
Crusaders
Pressure deals damage depending on target's health. For each 1% lost, Pressure will deal 10/20/30/40/50 damage. It now has a fixed 10 seconds cooldown.
Devotion will now only share 50% of the damage received from the devoted player. If the Crusader casts "Heal" skill, the devoted player will also receive 50% of the heal regardless of the Crusader's target.
Thief
Detoxify can only be casted on yourself.
Assassin
Create Deadly Poison now has 100% success rate.
Deadly Poison will only increase your damage against poisoned targets.
Venom Splasher will now spread its effect when it deals damage to another player. Venom Splasher timer fixed to 2 seconds.
Rogue
Intimidate will now teleport you and the target 10 cells behind you.
All strip skills has 100% success rate. It will now last up to 7 seconds and has a fixed 20 seconds cooldown (40 seconds for Full Strip)
Archer
Hunter
Each level of Attention Concentrate reduces the cast time of Sharpshooting by 10%. It now has a 5 seconds cooldown.
Bard/Dancer
Frost Joker/Scream change increased to 100%/95%/90%/85%/80%. The chance is reduced depending on the range of the enemy. For each cell apart, the chance is reduced by 12%.
Apple of Idun's heal now depends on the caster's base level and INT.
Using Encore now leaves a copy of the song's ground effect on the player's current position for 10 seconds.
Acolyte
Priest
When casting Turn Undead to non-undead target, their property will change to Undead for 10 seconds.
Monk
Every combo will temporarily increase your movement speed and attack speed (up to 50% movement speed and 150% attack). The effect lasts 15 seconds.
Magician
Wizard
Each spirit from Soul Strike will cause the target to take extra damage from consecutive Soul Strike (up to 150% extra damage). This effect will also increase damage of your Napalm Beat (up to 1500%) but it also resets the damage boost.
Gravitation Field is now a channeling spell and last up to 6 seconds.
Sage
Soul Burn will no longer fail and will burn 5%/10%/15%/20%/25% of the target's SP and deal twice the SP burned.
Spells cast by Auto Spell no longer cost any SP
Successful Magic Rod will make the Sage cast the spell back to the user.
Merchant
Vending skill has been replaced with "Merchant's Burden": For every 1% unused weight you have, your maxHP is increased (up to 50%).
Alchemist
Bio Cannibalize will now summon only one plant each level and will only require 1 plant bottle. The plant will last for 2 minutes.
Plant cultivation will allow players to duplicate their summoned plants. Duplicated plants share the same duration as the original one.
PLAYER-VERSUS-PLAYER
Killing a player in PvP will grant you 10 Prestige Points.
Points will be divided equally among party members in the same map.
PLAYER-VERSUS-ENVIRONMENT
Paragon Monsters: Each monster (excluding MvPs and Mini-bosses) will now have a stronger version called Paragon. These monsters may appear in any map and grants huge EXP and item drops.
Killing MvP will grant you Sentinel Points.
Points will be divided equally among party members in the same map.
Killing Paragon will grant you Aegis Points
Points will be divided equally among party members in the same map.
ITEM
NEW ITEM: Letter of Recommendation: An accessory that grants you extra experience based on your Veteran Points. Every player will receive the scroll after reaching max level for the first time. This item is account-bound and can be transferred to another character.
Delay between item use increased to 0.5 seconds up from 0.1 seconds.
UI
Monster's level will now be displayed beside their name.
Notification such as gaining or losing points and unread mail will be shown in the chat-box upon login.
Players can now view other player's equipment with no restrictions.
ADDED @ATCOMMAND
autotrade
autoloottype
alootid
channel
commands
request
autoloot
mobinfo
main
duel
checkpoints
auction
time
showexp
showdrop
If you are interested in reinventing the game, you may as well join me as I'm already more than half way there. I deal all in game features primarily: skills, monsters, items, refinement, class balance, level up curves, you name it. I don't do much of that weird custom stuff, but if it is a good concept I'm always willing to implement it into the game.
As for your ideas on skill changes, a couple of them(Turn Undead and Strip) are changes very similar to my own, differing only in cooldown and duration. The rest of your skill changes are a step towards the right direction, but rather inconsiderate of the world of Ragnarok as a whole and will probably end up being too strong(in the case of autocounter) or too weak(in the case of deadly poison).
If you're interested in working with me, PM me and I will give you more details about what I've done with the game.
Quote from: Blinzer on Aug 28, 2015, 11:04 AM
If you are interested in reinventing the game, you may as well join me as I'm already more than half way there. I deal all in game features primarily: skills, monsters, items, refinement, class balance, level up curves, you name it. I don't do much of that weird custom stuff, but if it is a good concept I'm always willing to implement it into the game.
As for your ideas on skill changes, a couple of them(Turn Undead and Strip) are changes very similar to my own, differing only in cooldown and duration. The rest of your skill changes are a step towards the right direction, but rather inconsiderate of the world of Ragnarok as a whole and will probably end up being too strong(in the case of autocounter) or too weak(in the case of deadly poison).
If you're interested in working with me, PM me and I will give you more details about what I've done with the game.
Hi there Blinzer! Thank you for your invitation to collaborate, I knew I'm not the only one out there with these kind of ideas. /no1
The truth is, these are not just concept, it has already been implemented and tested during BETA testing along with other changes that were not listed. It is now closed in preparation of official release.
When there's ton's of changes, there are ought to be some imbalances. This is the reason why most successful MMORPGs have updates every month or so, most purposely do this to keep the game from stagnating.
As for balance issues, you mentioned auto-counter, players don't see it as overpowered during BETA. This is probably due to other changes (that were not listed) that changes the whole combat dynamic. I will run analysis from time to time to see what need to be tweak or improve upon. But I don't expect the game to be perfectly balanced but close enough that players won't just play one class.
I'm still interested to keep in touch! Although we'll do our own methods of game improvement but we can perhaps learn from each other and grow as private server buddies. Cheers!
Quote from: ShadowLight on Aug 28, 2015, 05:43 PM
Hi there Blinzer! Thank you for your invitation to collaborate, I knew I'm not the only one out there with these kind of ideas. /no1
The truth is, these are not just concept, it has already been implemented and tested during BETA testing along with other changes that were not listed. It is now closed in preparation of official release.
When there's ton's of changes, there are ought to be some imbalances. This is the reason why most successful MMORPGs have updates every month or so, most purposely do this to keep the game from stagnating.
As for balance issues, you mentioned auto-counter, players don't see it as overpowered during BETA. This is probably due to other changes (that were not listed) that changes the whole combat dynamic. I will run analysis from time to time to see what need to be tweak or improve upon. But I don't expect the game to be perfectly balanced but close enough that players won't just play one class.
I'm still interested to keep in touch! Although we'll do our own methods of game improvement but we can perhaps learn from each other and grow as private server buddies. Cheers!
I am always willing to help those who seek knowledge about the game.
On a side note, nobody was talking about concepts. I assumed yours were already implemented before I asked.
Quote from: Blinzer on Aug 28, 2015, 06:24 PM
I am always willing to help those who seek knowledge about the game.
On a side note, nobody was talking about concepts. I assumed yours were already implemented before I asked.
Sounds great! Feel free to post any questions or new ideas for Ragnarok in this topic. I would definitely love to hear them.
Changing game concept is a dead end, most project fail that way.
Those concepts are amazing and to think it's already implemented too.
Impressive work ShadowLight! It makes me want to try it out on release.
In your changes you overbuffed disruptive skills...
Strip 100% work ????
Gravitation Field has always be a channeling skill ... you can cast while channeling but dmg is null /sob
Quote from: annaquin on Sep 03, 2015, 02:04 PM
In your changes you overbuffed disruptive skills...
Strip 100% work ????
Gravitation Field has always be a channeling skill ... you can cast while channeling but dmg is null /sob
I understand your concern. I was too when I implemented the skills at first but I did some testing it turns out "OK". With the high cooldown, it makes combat less "luck-oriented". In other words, less spamming strip skill again and again and more of using strip skill wisely. Also, due to high cooldown, players will use different strip skill and have to choose what to strip. I got feedback of players saying that, they would have to do quick thinking on what to strip - weapon for assassins, armor for priests and shields for paladins.
Again, this may not NOT be 100% true as the sample space is low. Changes will happen for sure from time to time to avoid certain class/skill to be overpowered but this cannot be done without having it to be tested. This is why I plan to have tournaments (if the player count is high enough) and see which class is dominating and start sniffing clues on what is causing it and plan on how to improve balance.
I'm a little confused on Gravitation Field has always been channeling but the dmg is null. Probably because I've left RO for too long. But the changes are made so that it will have 0 cast time.
Cheers,
ShadowLight
Although I've been done with this game for years, I happened to stumble on this thread. Not everything instantly resonates with me, but this seems rather ambitious. The least I can do is check it out.
Edit: Now that I think about it, communication might be an issue. Due to greater focus on party content, actually finding a party should be made easier. Is a global or regional chat channel possible?
Edit2: Apparently you've got that covered. Promising.
There is so many version and variation of Gravity Field ...
The first fact common to all version is Dmg bypassing whatever DEF/reduction.. it's flat dmg 1200 dmg / 0.5 sec , deal dmg during 9 sec.
So curse + gravitation field = 2400 x 9 = 21600 flat dmg...
First version was compatible with White Imprison leading to a extremly dangerous and lethal combo WI +GF + lex scroll spam
Depending on which server, WI was fixed to only let ghost dmg bypass the barrier, but Goiard card was added to make Soul Expansion + lex scroll killing better...
It still make Gravitation Field extremly powerfull in WOE ( probably the most powerfull skill against emperium contest )
After that , the channeling ,while doing dmg with GF , warlock were abble to cast Quag, scroll crap and STAVE CRASHER
Quote from: annaquin on Sep 04, 2015, 07:26 PM
There is so many version and variation of Gravity Field ...
The first fact common to all version is Dmg bypassing whatever DEF/reduction.. it's flat dmg 1200 dmg / 0.5 sec , deal dmg during 9 sec.
So curse + gravitation field = 2400 x 9 = 21600 flat dmg...
First version was compatible with White Imprison leading to a extremly dangerous and lethal combo WI +GF + lex scroll spam
Depending on which server, WI was fixed to only let ghost dmg bypass the barrier, but Goiard card was added to make Soul Expansion + lex scroll killing better...
It still make Gravitation Field extremly powerfull in WOE ( probably the most powerfull skill against emperium contest )
After that , the channeling ,while doing dmg with GF , warlock were abble to cast Quag, scroll crap and STAVE CRASHER
This is a good feedback. I'm planning on using pre-renewal but I can see where it is a concern.
Quote from: Valenhil on Sep 03, 2015, 08:02 PM
Although I've been done with this game for years, I happened to stumble on this thread. Not everything instantly resonates with me, but this seems rather ambitious. The least I can do is check it out.
Edit: Now that I think about it, communication might be an issue. Due to greater focus on party content, actually finding a party should be made easier. Is a global or regional chat channel possible?
Edit2: Apparently you've got that covered. Promising.
It is pretty ambitious really. Hopefully by taking one step at a time, I'd be able to move forward with these ideas.
One thing I don't like in Ragnarok is the complete locked system of dual class or even triple classes.
In DD, you can be dual classes or triple classes...
In Ragnarok you are fcked up and locked into a limited game play.
Most item in database are worthless ... weapon or gear are totally a waste of time to even implement as 99% of players will drop them.
Dirk ? Dagger ? Stilleto ? what the meaning to have those weapon ?
Same goes for shirt ? Panties ?
All in all, gear should grant dual classes and triple classes ( not the crap version of creamy card ... )
It's quite easy to scrip as most of skill can be getrefine()-weapon lvl .
Example :
All spear should grant Spear Stab, Spear Boomberang
But been swordman add Spear Mastery that boost spear attack by a % rather than a flat dmg.
Keeping my eye on this, looking forward to an official release.
Server looks great! Looking forward on the release /no1
funny thing , most people use bot or third party , but so far nobody had the idea at server side, to actually run bot on their server as NPC and animated city.
Quote from: annaquin on Sep 09, 2015, 03:52 PM
funny thing , most people use bot or third party , but so far nobody had the idea at server side, to actually run bot on their server as NPC and animated city.
If someone were to build a framework (preferably python) for scripting players for the purpose of creating gaming content, then developers can do some serious badass sh
it.
Imagine a separate server for synchronizing groups of scripted players, which have basic player recognition, simple command interface via chat, randomize rule set, and AI via dynamic programming (neutral network too computationally intensive). Then you can
stimulate real-time events, pvp / tvt / gvg against AI, and etc with player like characteristics, such as changing equipment, using skills, dropping items, trading, and etc.
If implemented external, then python.
If implemented internal, then Lua over Erlang.
Someone get on this. O:!~
(Please implemented the synchronization using peer-2-peer (bots connect and communicate to each other to run the same general sequence) O:!)
Quote from: annaquin on Sep 09, 2015, 03:52 PM
funny thing , most people use bot or third party , but so far nobody had the idea at server side, to actually run bot on their server as NPC and animated city.
I know someone who made that at an official server. He coded two games in perl [hangman and crosswords, I believe] and had the scripts running for two entire months through player characters where people could interact with him and play through whispers.
Players loved his two games so much that some though that he was a new npc made by Gravity LOL
In the end he got banned because his actions were considered "macros" but not after a huge topic being made at the official forum where some complained about his macro usage and others asked why wasn't Gravity doing stuff like that since they enjoyed it a lot.
Quote from: Triper on Sep 09, 2015, 06:56 PM
pearl Perl (openkore is Perl based)
interact with him and play through whispers.
That is a very smart way to route all message to his
main character whatever communication. :o
I am guessing he whisper back and the bot will print to chat.
Fixed. Sorry but perl isn't something that I use :(
And yeah, he even had a system where people could whisper small messages of thanks. It was something really cool to watch.
I bet he plays RO on command line using openkore because he misses text-based RPG.
And he later plans on building a text-based UI using ncurses so he can play on unix based systems.
He'll have each client running and daemonize using screen on his Gentoo box.
O:!~ the dream
Quote from: annaquin on Sep 08, 2015, 04:56 PM
One thing I don't like in Ragnarok is the complete locked system of dual class or even triple classes.
In DD, you can be dual classes or triple classes...
In Ragnarok you are fcked up and locked into a limited game play.
Most item in database are worthless ... weapon or gear are totally a waste of time to even implement as 99% of players will drop them.
Dirk ? Dagger ? Stilleto ? what the meaning to have those weapon ?
Same goes for shirt ? Panties ?
All in all, gear should grant dual classes and triple classes ( not the crap version of creamy card ... )
It's quite easy to scrip as most of skill can be getrefine()-weapon lvl .
Example :
All spear should grant Spear Stab, Spear Boomberang
But been swordman add Spear Mastery that boost spear attack by a % rather than a flat dmg.
This is actually pretty interesting. Especially the example on spear. Would it be the same thing if all players have ALL skill available (@allskills). That way, they can switch weapon if they want to and change play-style while in battle.
Quote from: annaquin on Sep 09, 2015, 03:52 PM
funny thing , most people use bot or third party , but so far nobody had the idea at server side, to actually run bot on their server as NPC and animated city.
Probably because the one botting is usually the player, not developer. I used to see friendly heal bots where priests would just heal random players as they re-spawn and automatically reply to "thanks". Surely this is similar but less sophisticated. Though, rather than using a bot program, you can definitely just script monsters (use player models similar to @clone) to do almost the same thing.
Quote from: Bue on Sep 09, 2015, 07:23 PM
I bet he plays RO on command line using openkore because he misses text-based RPG.
And he later plans on building a text-based UI using ncurses so he can play on unix based systems.
He'll have each client running and daemonize using screen on his Gentoo box.
O:!~ the dream
Lol xD And nah, he only made that to test his skills with perl since he's studying Computer Engineering at University.
perl is cool language, most people prefer the simplistic lua ...
The advante of bot as npc is for merchant ...
As merchant are static vending machine, on low population , a weigthed item seller could sell item by rotation and rarity.
Same goes for quest , finding a walking npc is a bit more fun than just @map name,x,y
And I am not even talking about fighting or hunting down automated npc that can chit chat, taunt, and fight back in PVP
To bring in a side topic aside from perl and skill/weapon mechanics.
I play a lot of card games, I've been playing pokemon tcg competitively for years now, magic, yugioh, Weiss, vanguard, etc. what I'm basically getting at is create a format for WOE as opposed to gear wins or changing skills and gear and what it essentially does, things can be the same just change what can be used. Basically what you can use and what you cannot use, if anyone has even one thing that isn't allowed in WOE it warps them back to the same map they entered or a town where they can re-gear at kafra. Then this doesn't create broken mechanics in pre or renewal. Constantly change the meta from year to year so it keeps people interested, balance it between classes so every class has fair gain or one class has presence over the rest of the format for one year over the rest but then next year doesn't. This can probably bolster a renewal server with constant updates for years to come, but a pre-renewal could probably last for about 10 years before people get bored with it. Just an idea.
QuotePoint System: You will obtain points from killing Paragon (Custom Minibosses), MvPs or players. These points is shared among party members and can be used to buy equipments.
Make sure the way players get points is during a limited and competitive atmosphere, otherwise you invite farming of a specific relation and it kills the whole system you create.
QuoteRemoving poison status will cause the player to take damage depending on the remaining duration of the status.
I'd just rework whole poison mechanic. If you're going to use the old one its not going chance how useless poison is.
QuoteExperience calculation is set to calculate damaged done over maximum HP.
I don't understand how this is any different then whats currently implemented.
QuoteDevotion will now only share 50% of the damage received from the devoted player. If the Crusader casts "Heal" skill, the devoted player will also receive 50% of the heal regardless of the Crusader's target.
You've effectively killed the Paladin class.
QuoteDeadly Poison will only increase your damage against poisoned targets.
...and Assassins.
QuoteEvery combo will temporarily increase your movement speed and attack speed (up to 50% movement speed and 150% attack). The effect lasts 15 seconds.
It'll take some tries for you to get how you want those numbers where you want them. MS and AS in RO is based off whats missing to achieve the maximum effect.
QuoteVending skill has been replaced with "Merchant's Burden": For every 1% unused weight you have, your maxHP is increased (up to 50%).
There's no reason to make Biochems stronger.
QuoteKilling a player in PvP will grant you 10 Prestige Points.
Points will be divided equally among party members in the same map.
This has better applications in a GvG setting as it promotes competitiveness and not farming. You could add multipliers for participants in a castle with more eco/def.
QuoteMonster's level will now be displayed beside their name.
Are you changing how monster level will effect experience and/or damage dealt to players?
QuotePlayers can now view other player's equipment with no restrictions.
As long as its disabled in PvP/WoE, that's actually pretty useful. Otherwise it would just be 'wait, open their gear, "oh okay, let me one shot them with elemental advantage"'
Throughout the thread theres been some good ideas, it ultimately comes down to. Do you want to improve RO or make something new. Because you aren't going to be able to blend the ideas without making drastic changes that ultimately make it a different game to the varying audiences. If you're looking to make massive changes like the ones you suggested, I'd go with using Renewal as your platform. There's more to work with and easier to balance around.
that's why it is best to make on RMS forum. So we can sligthy but with consensus depart from Gravity ...
Quote from: Astraeos on Sep 11, 2015, 10:56 AM
Make sure the way players get points is during a limited and competitive atmosphere, otherwise you invite farming of a specific relation and it kills the whole system you create.
I'd just rework whole poison mechanic. If you're going to use the old one its not going chance how useless poison is.
I don't understand how this is any different then whats currently implemented.
You've effectively killed the Paladin class.
...and Assassins.
It'll take some tries for you to get how you want those numbers where you want them. MS and AS in RO is based off whats missing to achieve the maximum effect.
There's no reason to make Biochems stronger.
This has better applications in a GvG setting as it promotes competitiveness and not farming. You could add multipliers for participants in a castle with more eco/def.
Are you changing how monster level will effect experience and/or damage dealt to players?
As long as its disabled in PvP/WoE, that's actually pretty useful. Otherwise it would just be 'wait, open their gear, "oh okay, let me one shot them with elemental advantage"'
Throughout the thread theres been some good ideas, it ultimately comes down to. Do you want to improve RO or make something new. Because you aren't going to be able to blend the ideas without making drastic changes that ultimately make it a different game to the varying audiences. If you're looking to make massive changes like the ones you suggested, I'd go with using Renewal as your platform. There's more to work with and easier to balance around.
That's a pretty sweet review. I'll look into that with my team.
For the point system, I have two different type of points.
MvPs are pretty strong and are considered un-soloable at the time being which makes it harder to farm.
As for the paragons, these are much weaker but will grant you a different type of point which has lesser reward than the MvP Points.
Poison and Assassin Class ahs been improved since that patch but definitely needs more work.
On curious on your comment on Paladin. Many players enjoyed it during the BETA. In a way, it gave birth to Support Paladins since it either buff their healing by 150% on a single target OR heal multiple two target at once. Perhaps, you meant it kills tank paladins?
You're right about the combo tweak. The champion combo is very challenging to set. We're currently having issues with how players move in RO. It makes it hard to do combo.
The PvP Points is also split into two: (GvG/BG) and (Normal PvP). Better rewards will be given to GvG/BG points.
Renewal sure sound tempting, but it would take a lot of my resources to do since these has already been implemented on a pre-renewal server. Our team has less than a week to migrate to renewal but it might just be possible considering how we have the code setup.
I love the feedback, it's really useful and good to rethink. We're doing final sprint on the changes before grand opening. This is really helpful.
As someone who has been willing to change how Ragnarok works -for over a year- and trying to making it more interesting, I see some of your changes refreshing, but I think some others are a bit useless.
To name a few:
Fly wings: If you cap the use of them and there is for example maya purple in anthell01 in the entrance, a newbie will not be able to level properly there without fly wings being instant.
Combos: Time based bonuses are only useful on PVM situations. The user might be already dead when the first combo hits in a pvp situation. Also, the bonus would quickly run out when facing another enemy.
Improve Concentration disappearing when using Sharp Shooting: Ignoring the obvious waste of SP, you are making the skill not spammable because you would need to recast improve concentration every time or, if you don't use it, your cast time will be longer and the attack way lower because of the lower dex.
Some other modifications are really good, like the scream/frost joker based on distance - which is exactly how I nerfed those skills time ago - and it's clearly how the skill should have worked in the default game.
Good luck with the project, I'm also planning on delivering a modified version of RO, although mine would resemblance the game a bit more by just fixing balance between classes and spice it up with some other changes in the environment.
Well Gravity introduced many flaw and many poison skills .. all badly designed:D
First of all, the thief branch is a mess, it's a whole screwed up concept
What exactly is supposed to do a rogue ( stripper , so it should be an extension of stealing )
Thief -> steal -> debuff stats/skills/combo from gear -> steal stats/skills/ from gear
Thief -> Dual dagger and Double -> WHY NOT TRIPLE Then ????WTF gravity ??? Why not combo ???
It should be Double -> Triple -> CI ( 7 hit ) -> Sonic Blow ( 8 hit )
Envenom -> Poisonous -> Venom Splasher -> Poison Spore -> Poison Buster
Venom Dust -> Poison Smoke -> Killing Cloud
Gravity don't make any sense at all , ruin consistency and any logic ...
Assassin shouldn't be played in wild field but only as ambusher or on command using crowd/corner/hidden possibilities.
Rogue should be played like a gear debuf, stat debuff and buff stealer..
A shadow chaser should equip himself with a wide steal all buff applied on target 11x11 at max level .. but technically shadow chaser is much more well designed than Assassin class.
Quote from: ShadowLight on Sep 11, 2015, 08:48 PM
On curious on your comment on Paladin. Many players enjoyed it during the BETA. In a way, it gave birth to Support Paladins since it either buff their healing by 150% on a single target OR heal multiple two target at once. Perhaps, you meant it kills tank paladins?
From a competitive aspect, the ratio is too high for the person to be Devoted to. You may want to re-balance it so the Paladin takes more of the damage. Looking at it with a 50-50 ratio, you could still easily kill the Devo'd person which brings into question why use a Paladin. What you have now is a stronger mitigation tool then it is in its current implementation, but weaker in its competitive areas.
EDP can be revamped by having it apply a stacking poison type acting as an indirect DPS tool, just an idea. I'm not really familiar with how your server works.
The RE concept would require work, since you'd also have to touch on cast times and certain skills ignoring reductions. I'd say skip over the Mora batch if you're going to include episodic gears and such, as that's the standalone patch that killed RE.
Glad you took the critique positively, good luck.
Hello, I've been lurking for a while and finally decided to make an account just so I could reply to this topic. I had a bunch of suggestions but I forgot most of them lol, the only one I have in mind right now is regarding farming.
I know farming is a part of ragnarok and many players have grown used to it, but wouldn't it be better if it was a bit more dynamic? For instance, I've played on a server where there was a system that for every x amount of kills of the same monster, the drop rate of all their items would be increased by y. I liked this system because it was pretty fair to nearly all classes, since if you tried to go with AoE skills on that map you're farming, there's a chance you're gonna kill a monster with a different name, thus resetting your "streak".
I honestly can't think of any downside to this method, furthermore you could, if coding lets you, implement a slight zeny sink with this as well, for instance, a consumable item that preserves your current "kill streak", so if you die (in this case the streak would go away with death), you won't lose it. A consumable item that doubles the "kill streak" for a certain amount of kills or time (personally I think time would be better), so if you kill 1 monster, it counts as 2 killed. Something to promote party farming would be a consumable that "applies" this mechanic to the party the player who used it is currently in, so if a guild wants to farm for herbs for their alchemist for instance, they could go on a certain map, or split up on different maps, and kill the monster they want to kill.
If death makes the "kill streak" reset, it would be worth farming with the tanky classes cuz they offer low risky, so imo it creates a bit of balance in this mechanic. Whatcha y'all think?
Ps.: I'm not familiar with the forum yet so idk if I can only edit during a period of time, but in any case I'll edit this post if anything else comes to mind.
Quote from: Firebane on Sep 14, 2015, 09:20 AM
For instance, I've played on a server where there was a system that for every x amount of kills of the same monster, the drop rate of all their items would be increased by y.
This will only help bots plus a few edge cases where this could be bad, such as Mi gao.
And it would be way too subtle for it to actually be a feature. o.o Unless you code in an indication, like an special effect, where the item rate has increased for the monster or log something onto the player's chat window.
The reason people use bots is because they are lazy to farm, so I suppose if there's a way to make farming more dynamic, less people will feel the need to bot, ya feel me? Though truth be told, there's always gonna have people trying to cheat the system, it's up to the server security to block them imo.
About Mi Gao I got nothing other than ragnarok having their popular spots where people farm or level (*cough*anubis*cough*), it's up to the game designer guy to balance things on this matter by making most monsters or areas idk relevant in some way.
Oh the server did have a message every time you triggered the increased drop rate, which of course stacks. I didn't feel the need to mention that.
A stack-able and dynamic item drop rate based on a monster kill counter still sounds like a great botting feature.
Sure, you can implement the bot deterrent measures, handle the edge cases, and account for the feature in all your equations.
The real problem is that by stacking and varying the item drop rates for every monster; this means that every monster's item drop rate table is susceptible to 'unexpected' values. And you won't notice until your economy has major zeny inflation problem.
More trouble than it is worth and I think players will feel indifferent even if it is implemented with everything.
But I feel ya dawggg.
Quote from: Firebane on Sep 14, 2015, 09:22 PM
The reason people use bots is because they are lazy to farm, so I suppose if there's a way to make farming more dynamic, less people will feel the need to bot, ya feel me? Though truth be told, there's always gonna have people trying to cheat the system, it's up to the server security to block them imo.
About Mi Gao I got nothing other than ragnarok having their popular spots where people farm or level (*cough*anubis*cough*), it's up to the game designer guy to balance things on this matter by making most monsters or areas idk relevant in some way.
Oh the server did have a message every time you triggered the increased drop rate, which of course stacks. I didn't feel the need to mention that.
I HATE bots. But if they do exist in a game, it is the designer's fault. If the rewards is too high for doing something mindless, people will definitely bot. For sure, there's no way to completely eliminate bots, but we can try and reduce the amount by rewarding players for playing for doing the harder/more fun stuff in the game.
Quote from: Astraeos on Sep 14, 2015, 08:50 AM
From a competitive aspect, the ratio is too high for the person to be Devoted to. You may want to re-balance it so the Paladin takes more of the damage. Looking at it with a 50-50 ratio, you could still easily kill the Devo'd person which brings into question why use a Paladin. What you have now is a stronger mitigation tool then it is in its current implementation, but weaker in its competitive areas.
EDP can be revamped by having it apply a stacking poison type acting as an indirect DPS tool, just an idea. I'm not really familiar with how your server works.
The RE concept would require work, since you'd also have to touch on cast times and certain skills ignoring reductions. I'd say skip over the Mora batch if you're going to include episodic gears and such, as that's the standalone patch that killed RE.
Glad you took the critique positively, good luck.
I recently did a full change on how poison and EDP works on my server - this is by the way what I was trying to implement but I didn't want to give it all away. But since this topic has gotten a lot of attention, I'll post a full change on my EDP revamp. I can see that assassins have a lot of skill that can inflict poison BUT nobody seem to use it since it is not that great. Here's my change and reasoning:
List of changes affecting Assassins:EDP no longer requires Poison Bottle.
EDP bonus damage only works on poisoned enemy EXCEPT if you're affected by poison bottle buff.
Detoxify can only be casted on yourself.
Removing poison status will cause the player to take damage depending on the remaining duration of the status.
Reasoning:In a way, it still works like normal RO. You create bottle, you'll have the bonus damage.
But I added a little twist, if you poison the enemy, they will get that extra damage boost without the need to waste Poison Bottle! I've seen players in my BETA server fully utilize this by placing Poison Dust and Envenom in both PvE and PvP and I like it. In order servers, players don't usually bother using those skills. Also the reasoning behind the poison status change. If a player were to use green herb, they will take an intense amount of damage.
I like it so far, but I want to know what you guys think.
As for the Paladins, my intention to buff the healing-type Paladin ended-up nerfing it's tank-support capability. I'll look into finding a way around it.
I would like to also express my gratitude for all you RMSes, your feedback and suggestions has been very insightful!
BOT farmer exist because monster are dumb and easy to kill with an automated set of skill.
The minute you make monster running, hiding, collaborating against solo killer , you won't find anymore bot user.
Blinze : your server is unreachable
Quote from: annaquin on Sep 15, 2015, 03:24 PM
BOT farmer exist because monster are dumb and easy to kill with an automated set of skill.
The minute you make monster running, hiding, collaborating against solo killer , you won't find anymore bot user.
Blinze : your server is unreachable
I agree but making AI good enough to stop bots would be too expensive. There are other games like WoW that is definitely bottable but unlike RO, they are not mindlessly grinding for EXP. They have quest that are actually fun and have good storylines to follow. The monsters are not that "intelligent" but the reward you get from questing is way more than grinding.
Though there are some decent and interesting skill changes in the project, I fear there are too many changes that the standard player won't notice or care for, while the core of the game is remaining untouched. It feels like a huge exaggeration to call it "Reinventing" Ragnarok. I'm just seeing another custom private server.
Not only that, but if you were to increase the magnitude of the project, what method of keeping track of all of the customization are you using? With the release date being tomorrow, I would expect an in-depth functioning wiki with every change, and not only that, but obviously a completely and 100% revised skill description lua file so that players can easily understand what their new skills do. No player is going to wade through YT videos to understand that you customized skills. Coming from a place where I manage all of the heavy lifting on a server alone, I have the luxury of not needing to document changes outside of Patch Notes, as the behavior I am trying to emulate is that of the official servers.
I previously did not comment much, but I am at least a little impressed by the fact that you're opening period, as most of these projects fall flat on their faces after posting a project topic on rA or Hercules:
https://rathena.org/board/forum/198-project-concepts-in-progress/
Next, who is your target audience? As of right now, I only see three large communities of RO players remaining:
1. People who feed off of Nostalgia and want a Classic or Trans Pre-Renewal Server.
2. People who are excited to try new official RO Renewal content after coming back to RO.
3. The WoE/PvP/BG Community.
With that in mind, do you plan on pursuing alternate audiences and focus outside of RMS for your audience?
Quote from: Bue on Sep 14, 2015, 11:20 PM
A stack-able and dynamic item drop rate based on a monster kill counter still sounds like a great botting feature.
Sure, you can implement the bot deterrent measures, handle the edge cases, and account for the feature in all your equations.
The real problem is that by stacking and varying the item drop rates for every monster; this means that every monster's item drop rate table is susceptible to 'unexpected' values. And you won't notice until your economy has major zeny inflation problem.
More trouble than it is worth and I think players will feel indifferent even if it is implemented with everything.
But I feel ya dawggg.
Actually, looking at how the economy can be affected by it, I agree with you. Welp :(
His project is already dead ...
His idea of Venom Splasher is great but need some reworks ...
1 contagious hit generating 8 contigious hit ... that generate themselves 8x8 contagious hit that generate 8x8x8 ...
And venom splasher is doing a melee hit that can proc attack ... in WOE .. that could lead to 8^9 hit able to proc "on attack" .. most OP attack ever designed on Ragnarok against crowded WOE :D
I think the skil should work like chain lighting ... and deal 3x3 dmg poison and jump to another victim with skill increasing.
Exactly like chain lightning but with poison dmg.
Quote from: NovaRagnarok on Sep 17, 2015, 07:01 PM
Though there are some decent and interesting skill changes in the project, I fear there are too many changes that the standard player won't notice or care for, while the core of the game is remaining untouched. It feels like a huge exaggeration to call it "Reinventing" Ragnarok. I'm just seeing another custom private server.
Not only that, but if you were to increase the magnitude of the project, what method of keeping track of all of the customization are you using? With the release date being tomorrow, I would expect an in-depth functioning wiki with every change, and not only that, but obviously a completely and 100% revised skill description lua file so that players can easily understand what their new skills do. No player is going to wade through YT videos to understand that you customized skills. Coming from a place where I manage all of the heavy lifting on a server alone, I have the luxury of not needing to document changes outside of Patch Notes, as the behavior I am trying to emulate is that of the official servers.
I previously did not comment much, but I am at least a little impressed by the fact that you're opening period, as most of these projects fall flat on their faces after posting a project topic on rA or Hercules:
https://rathena.org/board/forum/198-project-concepts-in-progress/
Next, who is your target audience? As of right now, I only see three large communities of RO players remaining:
1. People who feed off of Nostalgia and want a Classic or Trans Pre-Renewal Server.
2. People who are excited to try new official RO Renewal content after coming back to RO.
3. The WoE/PvP/BG Community.
With that in mind, do you plan on pursuing alternate audiences and focus outside of RMS for your audience?
Those are really good feedbacks and questions. Those are the questions I asked myself too. I want to emphasize that
these are not the only changes that will be made. We spent a decent amount of time planning what is the next patch/update that will be introduced. We have lined up what will be introduced next and what should be fixed first before releasing the new changes. It will change a lot, including how we use stat points/skill points, combat mechanics and progression. BUT, we believe that it should never happen instantaneously (unless you're creating your own game).
I've been to quite a number of discussion and talks back when I was still in school. And I remember one of the Blizzard peeps mentioned that some of the ideas are only introduced in the game years after they agreed to implement it. These ideas are usually the ones that have a huge impact on how you play the game. Instead of implementing the idea immediately in game, they introduce smaller changes over time (or patches). Why? That way players would be able to adapt to the new idea.
I do agree that it is a terrible mistake for not keeping the players well-informed on the server I plan to release today. I've made a wiki weeks back but was swarmed with real work. Yes, I know this is a terrible excuse. But I do have a plan to release a wiki. There's no way (even for me), to keep up with the changes.
Quote from: annaquin on Sep 18, 2015, 06:35 PM
His project is already dead ...
His idea of Venom Splasher is great but need some reworks ...
1 contagious hit generating 8 contigious hit ... that generate themselves 8x8 contagious hit that generate 8x8x8 ...
And venom splasher is doing a melee hit that can proc attack ... in WOE .. that could lead to 8^9 hit able to proc "on attack" .. most OP attack ever designed on Ragnarok against crowded WOE :D
I think the skil should work like chain lighting ... and deal 3x3 dmg poison and jump to another victim with skill increasing.
Exactly like chain lightning but with poison dmg.
There will be a huge amount of testing to be done to all classes before we even consider turning WoE on. Every online game that you play will have patches. Why? Because they need to rework and tweak the game. No designers are perfect (and I'm far away from it), but if it is bad, fix it.
Whether or not this project dies (not going to lie, it probably will), the main reason for creating this server is for me to learn more about game design. If the server were to die on the day it is released (god forbid), I don't regret it. Sure I spent a few hundred bucks to start this server, but even up to this day, the things I learn from you guys in RMS is worth the effort and money. I love getting input on players and designers on what makes a game great, what I should avoid and what makes it fun.
With that note, keep up with the feedback and suggestions! I love to discuss with you more about this!
One way to not let die your projects and your idea , is to use rathena database and and post your script there .
1. People will test it
2. find all the OP behind
3. And make proposal to enhance the idea without destroying the concept
So people could reuse it .. also when you create a server , don't hesitate to use social-bot to actually make life ( since it's a mmorpg, you need to simulate crowd , vendors, etc... )
Good luck... you cant do worse than meteor stacking and 10 bombs a second. rip supplyro
Well he doesn't need to have full comitment.. and testing is always good things to do. Once he is ready, he can always switch to social manager, but that's up to him. No need to be harsch on him.
He just need to use community better than just a "post idea"->what do you think ->"feedback" ...
I think I got confused ... I first went to test Blinzer server instead of Shadow server .. so what is dead is Blintzer server .. project of Shadow seems up and running.
Just no. The game has enough problems. No reason for you to reinvent the s***.
Quote from: Cawliflower on Oct 01, 2015, 11:31 PM
Just no. The game has enough problems. No reason for you to reinvent the s***.
If you have nothing good to say, just shut your mouth. Your negativity doesn't contribute anything to this discussion.
Quote from: Cawliflower on Oct 01, 2015, 11:31 PM
Just no. The game has enough problems. No reason for you to reinvent the s***.
Just because there are people who knows best about the game and about running a server doesn't mean you need to be butthurt.
Stay calm.
Well changing Venom Splasher into Chain lighting with splash effect 3x3 is quite a very good idea as so far VS is pretty much a dead skill.
as remastering the game ... Dodge from thief should be changed to cope with all the bypass flee skills added ...
More like a passive Guard ability
As the game is designed , a dodge GX need to get Counter Slash for only 20% skill dodge max which not been near primary ability of a dodge Crusa that get 30% and Dodge LK that obtain a 50% .
Take inspiration from other games. One cool thing would be bonus damage vs particular classes, either via item bonus or inherent class ability. A rock-paper-scissors situation can come from this. :D
I totally agree with this and I think gear should be the one providing skills and ability where class specification should only grand passive skill as marginal helper.
Ragnarok is missing so many classes : Necromant, Lancer, Samurai, Summoner, Geomancer, Time Mage
also skill specialisation are quite messy .. Poison branch is so f*** up..
Evenom as Thief -> Poison React + Enchant Poison as Sin -> EDP as Sin X -> New Poison as GX + Poisonning barely usefull + Smoke Bombe and Pressure hugely expensive and all of sudden ...
Self poisonned Chaser + Deadly Infection + Poison Buster Surpass all whatever poison build
Magic Sorcerer Poison Branch far superior to whatever long range GX can come up with poison
Killing Cloud superior to Smoke Bomb + Venm Dust + venom Splasher all together
I've been going through ALL comments and feedback on this forum and my own. Based on what I learn, I've made a big change on my next patch (should be the first official one). This only includes skill changes, I have some other changes that might affect these but let me know what you guys think:
Spoiler
Quote
GENERAL CHANGES
All players' MaxHP will be increased by 100%.
STATUS CHANGES
Bleeding:
Any damage done on Bleeding target will cause them to take 20% of any the next damage received during the duration over 5 seconds.
Poison:
Poison can be lethal (can cause death).
Poison effect is now stackable (up to 20).
Poisoned target will take 20 hp per seconds every stack until the duration end.
If the effect is removed before the duration end (by skill or items), the player will take 50% of the remaining duration damage.
CLASS CHANGES
Lord KnightCharacter_LordKnight.jpg
Moving HP Recovery regenerates 100% of standing recovery.
Parry will now block all physical attacks (both ranged and melee) for 6 seconds. It now has a 1-minute cooldown.
Auto-Counter will now only counter one physical attack (both ranged and melee). When countered, the attacking enemy will be stunned for 3 seconds. It now has a 30-second cooldown.
Joint Beat will reduce target's movement speed up to 50%, last 5 seconds.
Head Crush now has a 100% chance to bleed enemy that can last up to 15 seconds. It now has a 45-seconds cooldown.
Frenzy will no longer restrict players from chatting or to be healed.
PaladinCharacter_Paladin.jpg
Moving HP Recovery regenerates 100% of standing recovery.
Devotion will now share 50% of the target's damage but has twice the range.
Autoguard will now grant the Paladin a shield that is blocks damage based on Paladin's MaxHP (up to 30%). It now has a 1 minute stay-duration and cooldown. Effects is shared on devoted target.
Reflect shield will cause the Paladin to lose 15 SP per second. Effects is shared on devoted target.
Defender will reduce Paladin's movement speed by 80%. Effects is shared on devoted target.
Allied target affected by Providence will receive 75% of healing done by the Paladin. Skill effect lasts 10 seconds and it now has a 15 seconds cooldown.
Pressure will reduce all healing received on enemy target by 50% for 10 seconds. It now has a 1-minute cooldown.
Assassin Cross
Character_AssassinCross.jpg
Detoxify can only be casted on yourself.
Sprinkle Sand blinds the target for 3 seconds. It now has a 30 seconds cooldown.
Throw Stone will stun the target for 0.5 seconds. It now has a 0.5 seconds cooldown.
Envenom now has 100% chance to poison the target. Casting Envenom on poisoned target will increase their poison stack by 1. It now has a 15 seconds cooldown (can be reduced to 5 seconds at max level)
Create Deadly Poison now has 100% success rate.
Enchant Deadly Poison no longer require Poison Bottle but will only increase your damage against poisoned targets. If you consume a Poison Bottle, your damage will increase against both poisoned and non-poisoned enemies.
Sonic Blow will deal twice the damage and has 100% hit rate when done behind target. It now has a 6 seconds cooldown.
Grimtooth will cause the player to be immobilized for 3 seconds. It now has a 10 second cooldown.
Venom Dust no longer require red gemstone. Standing on Venom Dust will cause player to be poisoned and their stack to increase by one per second.
Venom Splasher no longer require red gemstone or the target to be 2/3 HP. Venom Splasher will cause the target to explode every 0.5 seconds dealing 50% ATK and spread poison status on and around the target (increasing poison stack if they are already poisoned). It now has a 1-minute cooldown.
Soul Breaker damage is increased by 5% per poison stack on target.
Chaser
Character_Chaser.jpg
Detoxify can only be casted on yourself.
Sprinkle Sand blinds the target for 3 seconds. It now has a 30 seconds cooldown.
Throw Stone will stun the target for 0.5 seconds. It now has a 0.5 seconds cooldown.
Envenom now has 100% chance to poison the target. Casting Envenom on poisoned target will increase their poison stack by 1. It now has a 15 seconds cooldown (can be reduced to 5 seconds at max level)
All strip skills has 100% chance, last 8 seconds and has a 30 seconds cooldown. Full strip has a 1 minute cooldown.
Intimidate will now teleport you and the target 10 cells behind you.
Plagiarism is now an active skill. When casted on a player, the next spell the player cast will be copied (and will remove the plagiarism skill effect). Plagiarism can be casted while hiding/chase walk and it will not reveal the Stalker. Copied skill last 30 seconds.
Preserve increase the duration of copied skill to 10 minutes.
Backstab deals twice as much damage on target with full health and causes bleeding effect.
Raid deals 50% more damage per target hit, stunning them for 2 seconds and blinding them for 5 seconds. It now has a 15 seconds cooldown.
Gangster Paradise will cause players around stalker to be invisible (similar to Cloaking) for 8 seconds. Can be used while hiding/chase walk. It has a 7x7 area of effect.
Sniper
Character_Sniper.jpg
Arrow are no longer required to shoot and use skills.
Sharpshooting no longer has cast time and will deal triple the damage on targets below 35% HP. It now has a 15 seconds cooldown.
Arrow Making will allow players to choose their arrow of choice (Fire Arrow, Ice Arrow, etc).
Traps are no longer required to use trap skills.
Blitz Beat chance will now based on Beast Bane instead of LUK. 3% * Beast Bane Level.
Falcon Assault will deal twice the damage on targets afflicted by Freeze, Sleep, Blind and Ankle Snare. It now has an 8 second cooldown.
Clown/Gypsy
Character_Clown.jpgCharacter_Gypsy.jpg
Pang Voice can also be cast on friendly target. When a friendly target is affected by Pang Voice, they will be healed every second for 8 seconds based on the caster's int and level.
[Clown Only] Dissonance will now deal damage based on the caster's int and level.
Apple of Idun and Service for You will heal players based on the caster's INT and level.
Frost Joker/Scream chance increased to 100%/95%/90%/85%/80%. The chance is reduced depending on the range of the enemy. For each cell apart, the chance is reduced by 12%.
Using Encore now leaves a copy of the song's ground effect on the player's current position for 10 seconds.
High Priest
Character_HighPriest.jpg
When casting Turn Undead to non-undead target, their property will change to Undead for 10 seconds. It now has a 5 seconds cooldown.
Resurrection no longer has a change to instantly kill or damage Undead property monsters. Resurrection will no longer require blue gemstone. But it now has a 2-seconds fixed cast time.
Sanctuary will no longer require blue gemstone. It now has a 30 seconds cooldown.
Basilica no longer require holy water, yellow gemstone, blue gemstone and red gemstone but it will last only up to 10 seconds. It now has a 5 minute cooldown.
Safety Wall no longer require blue gemstone. But it has a 25 seconds cooldown.
Aspersio no longer require Holy Water.
Assumptio will now reduce all damage taken by 20%.
Redemptio will no longer cause the player to sacrifice himself/herself, but it now has a 3 minute cooldown.
Champion
Character_Champion.jpg
All combo skill are now targeted skill and can be used independently. Each combo skill will grant the player one spirit sphere (max of 5).
Chain Finish will stun the enemy for 1 second. It has an 8 seconds cooldown.
Chain Crush Combo has an 8 seconds cooldown.
Call Spirits reworked: It is now a passive ability. Call spirits will grant +5 ATK for each spirit sphere.
Dangerous Soul Collect now has a 1 minute cooldown and no longer has a cast time.
Explosion Spirits no longer reduce natural recovery of SP.
Asura Strike reworked:
Old: Asura strike can only be casted if the user is on Explosion Spirits buff and has 5 spirit sphere. After using Asura Strike HP/SP will not regenerate normally for 5 minutes.
New: Asura strike can be used at any time. After using Asura Strike SP will not regenerate normally or by items for 3 minutes. If Asura Strike is used with Explosion Spirits buff and 5 spirit spheres, it will not consume any SP nor will it restrict SP regeneration.
Absorb spirit sphere is now self-cast. The skill will consume 1 spirit sphere and heal the Champion 300% of ATK.
Throw Spirit Sphere will now target allies. It will heal 300% of the Champion's ATK per spirit sphere.
Blade Stop is now a target skill, can be used at any time (no longer require the player to "catch" attacks) and lasts up to 6 seconds. While in freeze condition, the Champion can cast Throw Sphere and Asura Strike.
High Wizard
Character_HighWizard.jpg
Fire Pillar no longer require Blue Gemstone.
Each spirit from Soul Strike will cause the target to take extra damage from consecutive Soul Strike (up to 150% extra damage). This effect will also cause your Napalm Beat to deal damage equal to the target's MaxHP (up to 30%). Napalm Beat bonus damage does not work on bosses.
Safety Wall no longer require Blue Gemstone. It now has a 25 seconds cooldown.
Gravitation Field is now a channeling spell and last up to 6 seconds.
Professor
Character_Professor.jpg
Each spirit from Soul Strike will cause the target to take extra damage from consecutive Soul Strike (up to 150% extra damage). This effect will also cause your Napalm Beat to deal damage equal to the target's MaxHP (up to 30%). This bonus damage does not work on bosses.
Soul Burn will no longer fail and will burn 5%/10%/15%/20%/25% of the target's SP and deal twice the SP burned.
Spells cast by Auto Spell no longer cost any SP
Successful Magic Rod will make the Sage cast the spell back to the user.
Autospell will also trigger when a player cast a target-able spell.
Advanced Book will also increase MATK by 3 per level.
Spider Web no longer require Cobweb. It has a 15 seconds cooldown.
Dragonology skill will now grant +2 MDEF per level.
Safety Wall no longer require Blue Gemstone. It now has a 25 seconds cooldown.
Deluge, Violent Gale, Volcano, Frost Weapon, Lightning Loader and Flame Launcher no longer require reagents.
Whitesmith
Character_Whitesmith.jpg
Vending will now reduce Mammonite zeny requirement up to 90%.
Skin Tempering will also grant up to 25% damage reduction.
Iron Tempering will also grant up to 25 DEF.
Steel Tempering will also grant up to 5% DEF bonus.
Enchanted Stone Craft will also grant up to 25% MDEF.
Ore Discovery will also grant up to 15% bonus HIT.
Research Oridecon will also grant up to 20% extra critical damage.
Weaponry Research will increase ATK up to 10%.
Smith Dagger, Smith Spear, Smith Sword, Smith Brass Knuckle, Smith Two-Handed Sword, Smith Mace and Smith Axe will each increase ATK by +1 per level.
Meltdown will has a chance to reduce Attack Power or Defense instead of breaking player's equipment.
Creator
Character_Creator.jpg
Vending will now reduce Mammonite zeny requirement up to 90%.
Potion Pitcher will no longer require potions but has 50 SP cost.
Slim Potion Pitcher will no longer require slim potions but has 150 SP cost.
Demonstration no longer require Bottle Grenade and will now has a chance to reduce Attack Power or Defense instead of breaking player's equipment. It has a 1-second cooldown and the stay-effect duration is set to 2/4/6/8/10 seconds.
Acid Terror no longer require Acid Bottle but has a 1 seconds fixed cast time and 100% change to bleed.
Acid Demonstration no longer require Bottle Grenade and Acid Bottle but has a 1 second fixed cast time. It now has a 10 seconds cooldown.
Homunculus no longer require reagents to create.
_____________________________________________________________________________
i love these new changes, cant wait for them to be implemented!!! Keep up the good work and all the best, hope this server blossoms!!!
That's quite the number of skill changes. I hope some mobs (mainly MVPs/high-end areas) are also adjusted (in terms of skills they use and stats) to reflect that. I haven't read everything in this topic so I apologize is this was already brought up. I also do think some of the new skill changes could be better adjusted~
But it's cool to see a lot of work done to make RO pretty different.
You got hate on wizard or what ?
Firepillar never required blue gem since 2008 and deal 7x7 aoe dmg 1-5 lvl and 5x5 aoe dmg 6-10.. so you actually nerfed it.
Safetywall 25 sec cool down ... how wizard can be played then ?
Gravitation Field has always be a channeled skill ...
So you pretty much nerfer Wizard to a dead zone ..
Grimtooth has a cool down O_o ? The only skill worth playing sin X , you killed it ? Yet you boosted Frenzy to barely no limit
You also killed EDP , only boosted dmg against poisoned target that only care about herbal and 80 dmg ...
you actually nerfed venom spalsher into a leech type dmg ... 1500% got nerfed into 900% ..
So to summarize it ...
You actually OVER MEGA BUFFER LK to a point it's not even jokeable ..
100% bleed->+20% dmg + Frenzy aspd 190 for 60sec = boost +7400% dmg
and nerfed all the other classes..but Crusa and Crusa ( Pressure = Wound lvl 4)
I don't think you understand at all what makes RO mechanics enjoyable, and your priorities on what needs changing are way off. I would give an example, but I don't even know where to begin.. Most of these changes are either completely irrelevant or arbitrarily nerf a whole class to death. Makes me wonder if you've ever played WoE or killed an MvP.
Quote from: Wyvern on Oct 05, 2015, 03:16 PM
That's quite the number of skill changes. I hope some mobs (mainly MVPs/high-end areas) are also adjusted (in terms of skills they use and stats) to reflect that. I haven't read everything in this topic so I apologize is this was already brought up. I also do think some of the new skill changes could be better adjusted~
But it's cool to see a lot of work done to make RO pretty different.
Quote from: snowblind on Oct 05, 2015, 06:43 PM
I don't think you understand at all what makes RO mechanics enjoyable, and your priorities on what needs changing are way off. I would give an example, but I don't even know where to begin.. Most of these changes are either completely irrelevant or arbitrarily nerf a whole class to death. Makes me wonder if you've ever played WoE or killed an MvP.
These changes is done based on what will be introduced in the game (New MvPs, New Dungeons, Different WoE, Different PvP) that is the reason why it looks more "random". Although I'm trying my best to keep as much as RO 'essense' in the game as possible, it will be different - it is called Reinventing Ragnarok afterall. We'll do all we can to make this as fun as possible without making it a totally different game.
Quote from: annaquin on Oct 05, 2015, 03:48 PM
You got hate on wizard or what ?
Firepillar never required blue gem since 2008 and deal 7x7 aoe dmg 1-5 lvl and 5x5 aoe dmg 6-10.. so you actually nerfed it.
Safetywall 25 sec cool down ... how wizard can be played then ?
Gravitation Field has always be a channeled skill ...
So you pretty much nerfer Wizard to a dead zone ..
Grimtooth has a cool down O_o ? The only skill worth playing sin X , you killed it ? Yet you boosted Frenzy to barely no limit
You also killed EDP , only boosted dmg against poisoned target that only care about herbal and 80 dmg ...
you actually nerfed venom spalsher into a leech type dmg ... 1500% got nerfed into 900% ..
So to summarize it ...
You actually OVER MEGA BUFFER LK to a point it's not even jokeable ..
100% bleed->+20% dmg + Frenzy aspd 190 for 60sec = boost +7400% dmg
and nerfed all the other classes..but Crusa and Crusa ( Pressure = Wound lvl 4)
Wizard is actually one of my favorite class aside from Assassin and Champion. My knowledge must be outdated then regarding the blue gemstone, but I don't see how I'm nerfing it. I'm not changing anything on Fire Pillar other than removing the reagents, which could only mean I either buff it or leaving it as it is. Let me know if I miss something. Again with the Gravitational Field, if it is, then I'm jsut leaving it as it is.
For Assassin Cross, I really don't see why you're saying I'm nerfing EDP:
QuoteEnchant Deadly Poison no longer require Poison Bottle but will only increase your damage against poisoned targets. If you consume a Poison Bottle, your damage will increase against both poisoned and non-poisoned enemies.
EDP can work like in normal RO. The only difference is that you can actually have the EDP effect without the poison bottle if you poison your enemy (which is not hard considering 100% poison chance).
As for poison, I would say, good luck trying to keep herbing. You will be taking a lot of damage (300 damage per stack) every time you use herb.
For LK, you're right. This need some rework to be done, I was planning to boost up tank capability but ended up introducing a big DPS-er (planning to reduce the HP multiplication and damage boost). Although the changes definitely buff up the damage, but keep in mind that the Bleed only last 15 seconds and you can't refresh it when you can't use skills. Also, the changes on other classes makes it easier for them to run away or stop the enemy (there is no 100% resistance to any statuses for players).
With all these cooldown, I understand why you see it as a nerf for all classes, but this is parallel to the style of change I want to achieve. Most of these changes are done to introduce another way of playing RO (I'm not saying it is better). Instead of using the same skill over and over and over again (and spam potion), you have to make a decision on when is the best time to use it. This is done by introducing a longer cooldown and buff in damage/usage of the skills. As a result, the fight will feel slower/longer but you will have more time to react and get out of sticky situations (less one hit kills).
Again, I really do appreciate ALL feedback on this. I've learned so much ever since I started this topic. I don't really care if all you have to say is negative, as long as you can tell me why you don't like it. This will help me learn on what players wants and think and make me a better developer - and a person. Don't hesitate to leave a reply, I'm not here to be offended ... I'm here to learn.
Quote from: ShadowLight on Oct 05, 2015, 08:34 PM
Again, I really do appreciate ALL feedback on this. I've learned so much ever since I started this topic. I don't really care if all you have to say is negative, as long as you can tell me why you don't like it. This will help me learn on what players wants and think and make me a better developer - and a person. Don't hesitate to leave a reply, I'm not here to be offended ... I'm here to learn.
I really enjoy the brainstorming here. I've been following this topic since it was posted. s***, nonsense negative response is just annoying af.
Hi Shadow, you should fix a formula for balance change and stick to it... otherwise it will be a pain to try out all combination.
So far I find a loop hole that is hugely OP for LK and SX.
LK against non thorn shield wielder :
Charge Attack->Head Crush with Toad card-> 100% poison + 100% bleeding-> Spear Stab->Charge Attack
You granted 3 sec immobility out of head crush which activate the loop
I am not finish
SX , Cloak+Venom Splasher->Evenom + Toad->Equip Dual Tooth Blade+9 (80% slow cast ) with 2 magnolia card + nightmare combo ( 9% curse )+Curse Arrow ( +5% curse )->Provoke->Venom Dust-> Loop
As for touching Grimtooth ... Hmm
I think most of players will be scared of your changes just because of grimtooth... you see, Grimtooth is the SKILL, it's like touching Double Strafe ... kRO and jRO players has been traumatised by EDP grimtooth for almost a decade and that was the only thing a Sin X had ( the rest was crap skill )
I don't see the point of making Grimtooth not an ASPD skill , since it's already hard for a sin X to remain hidden, the whole point of been hidden is to avoid target to cast Sigt and walk toward you. Tactically it's a timing to take a Sniper off guard or get revealed and die. Without a hunter around, a SX could be a catastrophy to any guild and its also the only way to break appart Land of Protection system.
Also , your server need a meeting point, any new comers will be lost not knowing where to meet people
Quote from: annaquin on Oct 06, 2015, 03:39 PM
Hi Shadow, you should fix a formula for balance change and stick to it... otherwise it will be a pain to try out all combination.
So far I find a loop hole that is hugely OP for LK and SX.
LK against non thorn shield wielder :
Charge Attack->Head Crush with Toad card-> 100% poison + 100% bleeding-> Spear Stab->Charge Attack
You granted 3 sec immobility out of head crush which activate the loop
I am not finish
SX , Cloak+Venom Splasher->Evenom + Toad->Equip Dual Tooth Blade+9 (80% slow cast ) with 2 magnolia card + nightmare combo ( 9% curse )+Curse Arrow ( +5% curse )->Provoke->Venom Dust-> Loop
As for touching Grimtooth ... Hmm
I think most of players will be scared of your changes just because of grimtooth... you see, Grimtooth is the SKILL, it's like touching Double Strafe ... kRO and jRO players has been traumatised by EDP grimtooth for almost a decade and that was the only thing a Sin X had ( the rest was crap skill )
I don't see the point of making Grimtooth not an ASPD skill , since it's already hard for a sin X to remain hidden, the whole point of been hidden is to avoid target to cast Sigt and walk toward you. Tactically it's a timing to take a Sniper off guard or get revealed and die. Without a hunter around, a SX could be a catastrophy to any guild and its also the only way to break appart Land of Protection system.
Also , your server need a meeting point, any new comers will be lost not knowing where to meet people
I just realized my wording is totally wrong for bleeding status. It should be the
NEXT attack, it doesn't stack. Now I totally understand what you meant by 7400% damage.
As for the poison, this is still very experimental. But the poison damage per stack can be adjusted as needed.
For classes, I targeted 2-3 unique build with different feel.
Assassin for example, you can see that there are two types: Stealth kill - Poison Spreader.
- Stealth kill focus on doing initial burst damage (hence the buff on sonic blow on hidden) and use whatever damage you have left to finish them. Due to higher cooldown on main skills, this type would have to kill the enemy once they opened it (with SB). If they can't kill the enemy, they will be at a disadvantge.
- Poison Spreader has less damage initially but higher damage over time (and possible AOE). The longer you fight them, the more damage you will take.
I'm not going to give away I have in store for other classes but they will follow this kind of variance between builds. Also, I would like the class to feel more like ... well, the class. Assassins should be stealthy and smart not charging forward and auto-attacking with dual dagger like some mad warrior. Sniper should be calm and using arrows wisely and not shooting as if they have a machine gun (that's gunslingers job!).
I would want to move away from spamming one skill, one shotting or autoattacking build to a build where you would have to utilize most of your skills. Different skills are useful at different times. Though I have two builds that could rely on auto-attacking (*hint* WS *hint*).
My server do need a meeting point :(. I thought at first Spa would be the place, doesn't seem that way.
I played on your experimental server a bit before, the spa was cool, what made it a "not so nice place" is maybe because it's on a different map, try putting it somewhere in your main town and maybe you will see people sitting there having a nice chat.
I like your combo monk/champ change though, feels refreshing to play a a full pvm monk class a bit, but I don't see it being efficient on pvp, you will have to use asura either way.
Those last changes just look like random formulas and cooldowns. Like you get Ragnarok online, remove every tactic and apply a generic and slow mmorpg style on it.
You remove diversity (no more aspd based skills) and a lot of skills has now no sense. If all combo skill are now targeted skill and can be used independently, how is that a combo?
Things I don't see any sense at all:
Potion pitcher not using potions.
Dragonology granting mdef.
Arrow skills not using arrows.
Venom Splasher goes from being a s*** skill to a s*** skill that mimics meteor assault with way less atk.
It's just no more Ragnarok Online.
Quote from: Suspension on Oct 07, 2015, 03:37 PM
Those last changes just look like random formulas and cooldowns. Like you get Ragnarok online, remove every tactic and apply a generic and slow mmorpg style on it.
You remove diversity (no more aspd based skills) and a lot of skills has now no sense. If all combo skill are now targeted skill and can be used independently, how is that a combo?
Things I don't see any sense at all:
Potion pitcher not using potions.
Dragonology granting mdef.
Arrow skills not using arrows.
Ragnarok isn't allowing ASPD based ... thanks from white pot.. except ASPD EDP GT ( cost 100k per minute ) been Aspd based = discarded from any OP skills ...
Also Venom Splasher proc 0.5 splash dmg is FAR superior to MA , due to VS a normal attack aka able to proc "on attack" skill.
Shadow : It's only for pre renewal ?
Quote from: Suspension on Oct 07, 2015, 03:37 PM
Those last changes just look like random formulas and cooldowns. Like you get Ragnarok online, remove every tactic and apply a generic and slow mmorpg style on it.
You remove diversity (no more aspd based skills) and a lot of skills has now no sense. If all combo skill are now targeted skill and can be used independently, how is that a combo?
Things I don't see any sense at all:
Potion pitcher not using potions.
Dragonology granting mdef.
Arrow skills not using arrows.
Venom Splasher goes from being a s*** skill to a s*** skill that mimics meteor assault with way less atk.
It's just no more Ragnarok Online.
These changes are still open to changes (currently being implemented and tested for both PvP and PvE).
To me the champion skills is still a combo, the difference is that instead of A->B->C->D->E, I introduce flexibility to the players to chain it the way they want it. Depending on the situation, you can choose to stun first or stun later in the combo. It also reduce the problem of players moving while doing combo (which stops the combo from being chained properly).
As for arrows/potions/etc, I prefer players to worry about which arrow to use rather than how many arrows I'm going to bring. Since I will be introducing new MvPs in special dungeon (or instance), they will be running out of arrows for sure. I'm not saying that it is bad to have a reagent/ammunition (it actually makes the game more realistic), but I'm leaning towards having the game to be less grinding and more doing. It is two similar kind of fun: "The skill to save up reagent" vs "The skill to save cd" for when the time comes.
As for Venom Splasher, due to the poison status change, it is FAR off from being a bad skill.
I can go on and on about the changes, but to summarize, all of these changes are made for a reason (not just for the sake of changing). Once tested and released, you will see why these changes happen and how to use each one of them in combat. As I mention before, I'm introducing about two new builds per class and each of them is unique in their own way.
It is also interesting how people react to this. One is saying that "this changes is barely noticable, you call this reinvented?" while the other is like "what are you doing? this is not RO anymore". Just FYI, this is actually pretty common in other games too especially when they are releasing a sequel. That's why you can see games that stays the same and those move away from their original design.
Quote from: annaquin on Oct 07, 2015, 05:53 PM
Correct, it's only for pre-renewal.
Ragnarok isn't allowing ASPD based ... thanks from white pot.. except ASPD EDP GT ( cost 100k per minute ) been Aspd based = discarded from any OP skills ...
Also Venom Splasher proc 0.5 splash dmg is FAR superior to MA , due to VS a normal attack aka able to proc "on attack" skill.
Shadow : It's only for pre renewal ?
It is only for pre-renewal.
Quote from: annaquin on Oct 07, 2015, 05:53 PM
Ragnarok isn't allowing ASPD based ... thanks from white pot.. except ASPD EDP GT ( cost 100k per minute ) been Aspd based = discarded from any OP skills ...
Are you even playing RO at competitive level ?
150 Int Bragi makes people build around aspd because 100% ACD means your spam rate only affected by animation delay which affected greatly by aspd. Even priest would benefit alot from aspd by going bare handed or quad cecil mace with adrenaline rush.
I think it got pretty clear this server isn't about 'competitive' level. This competitive level can't stand itself due to most WoE players being extremely cancerous and always playing with a pretty ridiculous amount of cheats. And don't tell me that 'Ah there's adelays, x shield'. There's cheats to bypass them and y'all know that.
sometimes even created by the same creator of the shield
Quote from: ggwp on Oct 08, 2015, 06:50 AM
Are you even playing RO at competitive level ?
150 Int Bragi makes people build around aspd because 100% ACD means your spam rate only affected by animation delay which affected greatly by aspd. Even priest would benefit alot from aspd by going bare handed or quad cecil mace with adrenaline rush.
That's crap theory. Been ASPD only imply reliable source of tank around you. People die from rain Comet , so spare us the crap. Dying from random skill or hiding behind tank isn't what make ASPD reliable. Even sniper isn't worth playing ASPD ... the only exception are GX that can hide and spam grimtooth with sick damage and Poisonning in renewal.
And in RWC you don't see any players even trying to play ASPD, in competition you are rarely alone and when you are, pretty much only white pot save you.
In prerenewal a simple SG destory whatever tactics , you either in undead + anti demi human or get stuck frozen ready to be one shoted with lightining element or a blue pot asura. I haven't yet see anyone full loaded in human resistance tanking EDP SL SB in frozen status.
In renewal , GX can play ASPD with poisonning and stack Venom Bleed + Curse Wound lvl 2 and let you go die somewhere else ... but that's rarely seen in competitiv area.
Quote from: annaquin on Oct 08, 2015, 02:09 PM
For what you say, you haven't really played pre-re woes at all and don't know how ASPD affects the game.
Quote from: ShadowLight on Oct 07, 2015, 08:24 PM
To me the champion skills is still a combo, the difference is that instead of A->B->C->D->E, I introduce flexibility to the players to chain it the way they want it. Depending on the situation, you can choose to stun first or stun later in the combo. It also reduce the problem of players moving while doing combo (which stops the combo from being chained properly)
So... they can be used independently (just like any other skill) and gain no buff when an specific skill is casted after another (like any other skill). That's really not what combo means. You can use Envenom and use Sonic blow, or use Sonic Blow and then Envenom, Sonic blow causes stun, and you can choose when to stun. See the analogy?
Posion: 20 hp per second, stackable up to 20. Which means max 400hp damage per second max. As as side effect of a powerfull skill might be "okay", but as the real effect of a 50% atk skill, I can't really get how that is something extraordinary.
And as I said, you kill aspd skills and builds with these changes, as well as you turn Spirit monks into healing characers.
Quote from: Suspension on Oct 08, 2015, 02:41 PM
For what you say, you haven't really played pre-re woes at all and don't know how ASPD affects the game.
You do claim a lot , but ... HP pool in pre-renewal is crap, so whatever you are saying, any SX with EDP SSB will blow up whatever ASPD crap tactic you will try.
Even renewal, aspd gx with poisonning isn't really a threat to anyone and that's by far the most advanced ASPD threat you will ever encounter in Ragnarok online.
But please enlight me with some build , my Aspd GX on kRO is aspd 185 with katar , use EDP GT with curse arrow, Burning of Evil God +14 Raging Katar/Blood Tears, Poisonning Pyrexia , Death Hurt or Venom Bleed.
At max against a full armor blinded Pal the max dmg we could with my GX was : 60k dmg /sec with extrem condition, normal condtion in WOE was 30k dmg/sec full buffed, that's still far away from 100k dmg from Lex scroll + GoH
As far as I know to put things into order the max dmg from GX , is EDP CS(10) that could go up to 800k dmg and EDP CRS that could go up to 600k dmg.
No offense OP, but this thread is chock full of awful ideas. It seems to me that you're just wanting to add these features willy-nilly without any concern for game balance, and that is not the mind of a designer but rather a child playing in a sandbox. For example, you don't want archers to consume arrows...? Lol... Okay, might as well make every item like potions and wings infinitely reusable... You've just created a second mage class with no casting time and infinite ranged attacks that don't require any kind of consumable resource to use, good job.
What is this spa business about? News flash, it's called a Kafra and a main town. You're just taking normal features. Also, did you need to rip the term "Paragon" points directly from Blizzard? This system already exists in many servers under different names anyway.
This airship system is daft. Town warper > airship. You might consider standing on an airship for 2 minutes to be "authentic" or "unique", I consider it to be boring and I'm going to guess most of your players will too.
Skill buffs... So you want all the classes to have access to a bunch of skills from other classes so you can make hybrids? Sounds cool on the surface- until you realize that by doing this, you're making actual classes almost entirely pointless. Also, have you heard of these cool things called "cards" and "scrolls"? They give you all sorts of cool powers from other classes without totally f*** your game design and ruining class balance.
You're just meddling with everything. You aren't attempting to refine and update the RO formula, you're trying to turn it into your own lame version of what you "think" an MMORPG should be. Sorry bub, if this is what you think passes for "game design", consider a different profession because these are terrible ideas, especially when they're being inserted into a game which was not built to support any of them. If you want to make these changes to your RO server, go right ahead, have fun. But don't act like you're somehow making revolutionary changes and "re-inventing Ragnarok" because you're not, you're adding worthless features that don't make the game any better. Personally, I wouldn't waste a single minute on your server because it sounds bollocks and by the tone of other posts in this thread, I'd say many people agree. Back to the drawing board mate.
QuoteBeen ASPD only imply reliable source of tank around you
Ever try normal pvp on pre renewal ? Most server will have some Champion that run aspd build with slotted Berserk.
QuotePeople die from rain Comet , so spare us the crap.
Like your squishy GX ? I'll spare that crap GX build /heh.
QuoteAnd in RWC you don't see any players even trying to play ASPD, in competition you are rarely alone and when you are, pretty much only white pot save you.
RWC settings doesnt work much for most aspd build because they cant reach significant dex from level and gear limit. But LK and HP still could run aspd build which are game changer in RWC setting.
QuoteIn prerenewal a simple SG destory whatever tactics , you either in undead + anti demi human or get stuck frozen ready to be one shoted with lightining element or a blue pot asura. I haven't yet see anyone full loaded in human resistance tanking EDP SL SB in frozen status.
Marc card or you die from stacked meteor.
QuoteIn renewal , GX can play ASPD with poisonning and stack Venom Bleed + Curse Wound lvl 2 and let you go die somewhere else ... but that's rarely seen in competitiv area.
Rolling Cutter are heavily reliant on aspd and still better by long shot for PvP and WoE.
QuoteYou do claim a lot , but ... HP pool in pre-renewal is crap, so whatever you are saying, any SX with EDP SSB will blow up whatever ASPD crap tactic you will try.
K , EPD SB vs Aspd Paladin.
QuoteEven renewal, aspd gx with poisonning isn't really a threat to anyone and that's by far the most advanced ASPD threat you will ever encounter in Ragnarok online.
But please enlight me with some build , my Aspd GX on kRO is aspd 185 with katar , use EDP GT with curse arrow, Burning of Evil God +14 Raging Katar/Blood Tears, Poisonning Pyrexia , Death Hurt or Venom Bleed.
What a joke build , 10/10 would laugh again.
QuoteAt max against a full armor blinded Pal the max dmg we could with my GX was : 60k dmg /sec with extrem condition, normal condtion in WOE was 30k dmg/sec full buffed, that's still far away from 100k dmg from Lex scroll + GoH
As far as I know to put things into order the max dmg from GX , is EDP CS(10) that could go up to 800k dmg and EDP CRS that could go up to 600k dmg.
Rather than talking about unrealistic condition , you should think realistic match instead. I'm not going to waste my times teaching advanced renewal knowledge on someone who cant even play decent RO.
==================
So yeah , most of frequently used skills gutted by this server. But some skill are still left untouched Bragi , Meteor Storm , Bolt , (Linked) Shield Boomerang , etc.
Quote from: annaquin on Oct 08, 2015, 04:31 PM
Please, tell me how good your EDP Sonic Blow Assassin Cross is versus a 99 int/dex Stun inmune 190 aspd Creator devo'd in the middle of a gvg.
You obviously try to ruin this post with your so called hyper effective knowledge APSD fight that only consist of spamming skill. ( So the point of been ASPD is for you to spam skill, which is something you can achieve in WOE condition with a Kaguro buff and Magic String ... )
For the point of reinventing Ragnarok .. I would say class versatility is good for point but those point in Renewal play a way too less factor in winning than in prerenewal. In a way, prerenewal stats was almost perfect balance but for FLEE.
In prerenwal, having to top a xx0 number to get the extra bonus was great acheivement and made worth the stat tuning STR 140 and STR150 should even have a more decent dmg factor.
And I think the way Ragnarok should have been , would be that stat should have been factorized into a xx0 requirement to grant extra bonus.
ATK formula was simply and greatly made = STR+ [STR/10]^2 is just great and should be used
Then again instead of renewal formula
game mechanics should have been simplified but let intact the quadratic effect
minATK = STR+[STR/10]^2
maxATK=STR+[STR/10]^2
DMG = {minATK x DEX + maxATK x LUK } / [ DEX+LUK ] + [ weapon ATK ]
Same goes for
Magic DMG
Long Range DMG
Flee = AGI + [AGI/10]^2 + Fell gear
Resistance formula should be more asymptotic
Resistance = LOG10[ STAT to counter effect x LEVEL ] * 20% -LOG10[STAT of caster to boost effect x LEVEL of caster ]*10% - Number Attempt % ( no random calculation, every value < 0 = reset number of attempt to 0 and apply the status )
Duration = Forced Duration [STAT to boost effect from target/10] - [STAT to counter sec from caster/10] sec
All formula should be simplified imo to a more consistency.
As a note : MY EDP SSB is dealing 200k raw dmg to anyone without lex scroll and 400k raw dmg with lex scroll. So as far as I know , only Full Buffed Tanker LK or RK are known to survive. And best DPS is Warlock Comet rain not Creator Devo that require some full team to actually be usefull at 9 cell range.
2 warlock chaining Comet wipe out an entire screen in 10 sec and only RK and LK and hidden character are known to remain alive. Tested, already criticized, already proven and issue has already been adressed to Gravity Korea. So your so called competitiv crap GVG is merely doubtfull...
You can't do s*** against Comet rain because of burning status , Multiple or infinite lock on, Heavy Dmg to outpot, long range distance , 10% drain of SP, hellish screen stress
Let it die. It's been long enough.
Quote from: greenmagic469 on Oct 09, 2015, 09:46 AM
No offense OP, but this thread is chock full of awful ideas. It seems to me that you're just wanting to add these features willy-nilly without any concern for game balance, and that is not the mind of a designer but rather a child playing in a sandbox. For example, you don't want archers to consume arrows...? Lol... Okay, might as well make every item like potions and wings infinitely reusable... You've just created a second mage class with no casting time and infinite ranged attacks that don't require any kind of consumable resource to use, good job.
What is this spa business about? News flash, it's called a Kafra and a main town. You're just taking normal features. Also, did you need to rip the term "Paragon" points directly from Blizzard? This system already exists in many servers under different names anyway.
This airship system is daft. Town warper > airship. You might consider standing on an airship for 2 minutes to be "authentic" or "unique", I consider it to be boring and I'm going to guess most of your players will too.
Skill buffs... So you want all the classes to have access to a bunch of skills from other classes so you can make hybrids? Sounds cool on the surface- until you realize that by doing this, you're making actual classes almost entirely pointless. Also, have you heard of these cool things called "cards" and "scrolls"? They give you all sorts of cool powers from other classes without totally f*** your game design and ruining class balance.
You're just meddling with everything. You aren't attempting to refine and update the RO formula, you're trying to turn it into your own lame version of what you "think" an MMORPG should be. Sorry bub, if this is what you think passes for "game design", consider a different profession because these are terrible ideas, especially when they're being inserted into a game which was not built to support any of them. If you want to make these changes to your RO server, go right ahead, have fun. But don't act like you're somehow making revolutionary changes and "re-inventing Ragnarok" because you're not, you're adding worthless features that don't make the game any better. Personally, I wouldn't waste a single minute on your server because it sounds bollocks and by the tone of other posts in this thread, I'd say many people agree. Back to the drawing board mate.
No offence taken. You're just stating what you feel and think about the server and I do appreciate your honesty more than anything. Though I agree with most of your reasoning, there are some I would like to get some clarification (or just want to tell you why I changed it):
Quote from: greenmagic469 on Oct 09, 2015, 09:46 AMFor example, you don't want archers to consume arrows...? Lol... Okay, might as well make every item like potions and wings infinitely reusable... You've just created a second mage class with no casting time and infinite ranged attacks that don't require any kind of consumable resource to use, good job.
Unless Mages have to consume reagents to cast every single spell, I strongly believe that it is not a fair comparison. On top of that, mage-based classes can regenerate SP easily out of battle (some skill even give boost to this). For archer-based classe, if you run out of arrows, unless you have the right reagent for the arrow you want, you're at a disadvantage. This is even worse in PvP since you will not get loot from anything. It is rather interesting, by just removing arrows, you say that archer classes are now mages. Are you saying that the only difference between archer and mages is the need for arrows (just to fill in weight limit and spend zeny on)?
QuoteYou're just meddling with everything. You aren't attempting to refine and update the RO formula, you're trying to turn it into your own lame version of what you "think" an MMORPG should be.
QuoteYou're just meddling with everything. You aren't attempting to refine and update the RO formula, you're trying to turn it into your own lame version of what you "think" an MMORPG should be. Sorry bub, if this is what you think passes for "game design", consider a different profession because these are terrible ideas, especially when they're being inserted into a game which was not built to support any of them. If you want to make these changes to your RO server, go right ahead, have fun. But don't act like you're somehow making revolutionary changes and "re-inventing Ragnarok" because you're not, you're adding worthless features that don't make the game any better. Personally, I wouldn't waste a single minute on your server because it sounds bollocks and by the tone of other posts in this thread, I'd say many people agree. Back to the drawing board mate.
This is my drawing board. I kept on posting this at the end of almost every post I make. This is the place for me to learn. I have zero intention to force people to agree that my idea will make Ragnarok better. It's just another way to redesign and I can't emphasize this enough, everyone have their own vision. This is just a way to get this brainstorming topic going (which is working very very well). Also,I'm pretty sure I mentioned that this is mostly skill changes NOT ALL of the changes that I have or plan to make. I have changes in DEF and FLEE formula.
To me, Ragnarok Private Server really is a invaluable sandbox. Sure it has its limitation due how it is already been set up, but the things you can do with it and the price you have to pay to keep it running is definitely worth it. I do believe that this truly is the best MMORPG sandbox to test out ideas. Let me know if there's any other MMORPG sandbox I can use to test that is as stable and robust as RO, I'll be sure to try it out.
Say whatever you want, I won't be throwing away my passion to design games just because I made a terrible design. This is my way of learning and getting input. I can't even imagine making a perfect custom server the first time, nor the second, or the third. But overtime, I want to be able to get it right. Again, I'm not easily offended. Appreciate all the meaningful feedback, keep it up!
Quote from: ShadowLight on Oct 09, 2015, 10:38 PM
No offence taken. You're just stating what you feel and think about the server and I do appreciate your honesty more than anything. Though I agree with most of your reasoning, there are some I would like to get some clarification (or just want to tell you why I changed it):
Unless Mages have to consume reagents to cast every single spell, I strongly believe that it is not a fair comparison. On top of that, mage-based classes can regenerate SP easily out of battle (some skill even give boost to this). For archer-based classe, if you run out of arrows, unless you have the right reagent for the arrow you want, you're at a disadvantage. This is even worse in PvP since you will not get loot from anything. It is rather interesting, by just removing arrows, you say that archer classes are now mages. Are you saying that the only difference between archer and mages is the need for arrows (just to fill in weight limit and spend zeny on)?
This is my drawing board. I kept on posting this at the end of almost every post I make. This is the place for me to learn. I have zero intention to force people to agree that my idea will make Ragnarok better. It's just another way to redesign and I can't emphasize this enough, everyone have their own vision. This is just a way to get this brainstorming topic going (which is working very very well). Also,I'm pretty sure I mentioned that this is mostly skill changes NOT ALL of the changes that I have or plan to make. I have changes in DEF and FLEE formula.
To me, Ragnarok Private Server really is a invaluable sandbox. Sure it has its limitation due how it is already been set up, but the things you can do with it and the price you have to pay to keep it running is definitely worth it. I do believe that this truly is the best MMORPG sandbox to test out ideas. Let me know if there's any other MMORPG sandbox I can use to test that is as stable and robust as RO, I'll be sure to try it out.
Say whatever you want, I won't be throwing away my passion to design games just because I made a terrible design. This is my way of learning and getting input. I can't even imagine making a perfect custom server the first time, nor the second, or the third. But overtime, I want to be able to get it right. Again, I'm not easily offended. Appreciate all the meaningful feedback, keep it up!
keep up the good work bro, very excited about your server changes.
Shadows: can you increase the rates of your server .. :/
Quote from: annaquin on Oct 10, 2015, 05:22 PM
Shadows: can you increase the rates of your server .. :/
Which rates do you mean?
I tried your server , I hope it's the good one, and got stuck by the exp rates and low population. if you want some feed back at least grant item to give exp or change exp rates.
Quote from: annaquin on Oct 11, 2015, 02:38 PM
I tried your server , I hope it's the good one, and got stuck by the exp rates and low population. if you want some feed back at least grant item to give exp or change exp rates.
What do you mean by got stuck by exp rates? I enjoy a lot of the custom features-- which servers with high customized features are notorious for low population, i felt that the exp rates were too high, almost akin to high-rate servers.
I was talking to Shadow .. server I tried was called reinvented ragnarok
Exp rate was like x 10
Quote from: whiteboi on Oct 11, 2015, 07:26 PM
customized features are notorious for low population
Often, the customized features aren't what actual players want, but what developers can readily build. O:
Quote from: annaquin on Oct 11, 2015, 08:39 PM
Exp rate was like x 10
The experience table is just an array of 64 bit integers index by base level.
You can easily manipulate the experience table to offset the server rates, but that would be stupid.
He probably modified the experience table by calculating mid rate experience values with padding to throttle the starting levels (or have it scale better). This is to prevent players from leveling 10, 20, or 30 levels per monster kill.
A more complex customization involves manipulation of both the mob and experience table.
You can generate graphs using data-sets from the mob and experience table to get an idea of the player's leveling experience. After collecting and analyzing a few data-sets, you typically figure out which data-sets produce the desire characteristics.
Finally, you take your engineered data-set and punch it into matlab to get a polynomial function, which you can use to generate your new experience table.
You can write a research paper on your rationale over the dataset as an exercise; good skill to have in academia. Then present the result on your forum or anywhere to get it peer review. (I would :D)
Quote from: Bue on Oct 13, 2015, 12:30 AM
A more complex customization involves manipulation of both the mob and experience table.
You can generate graphs using data-sets from the mob and experience table to get an idea of the player's leveling experience. After collecting and analyzing a few data-sets, you typically figure out which data-sets produce the desire characteristics.
Finally, you take your engineered data-set and punch it into matlab to get a polynomial function, which you can use to generate your new experience table.
You can write a research paper on your rationale over the dataset as an exercise; good skill to have in academia. Then present the result on your forum or anywhere to get it peer review. (I would :D)
Well people use R nowadays, cheaper and more powerful :P
Technically, the concept of exp is quite for dumb players, you are trapped into a zone where you select a set of skill, that you don't want but a few and sacrifice hours to get them in order to use 4 of them 95% of the time.
Active Skills should be granted by gears only
Passive Skills should be granted by job class only
Stats should be money maker ( grant by stats farm, kafra shop etc... )
Effect and misc should be granted by cards mostly.
In RAgnarok we have a retard mess of card providing whatever coders is thinking, without any consistency and no logic at all.
I think the taekwondo system of monster hunt should be use to grant exp ... you get your own quest of monster ( 100 ) for your level and once you finish your quest you get to kill a boss to change level. Instead of farming the same spot over and over for only get some new skills...
Edit : Shadow : You need to change your skill and skill description in one file and publish all description and effect in one shot. Otherwise skill description in game and how they act are totally different