Pre-renewal job tier list?

[Relics]

If you had to make a tier list based on these rates:

500x/500x/50x (Mvp cards are 0.01, Miniboss 0.05)
Donation items:
- Maya purple
- Ghostring
99/70

Remember this is for PvP split up between when you're playing Solo/Teamplay.
Terms you can look at:
Kill potential
Survivability
Support
Mobility
And just an overall opinion about the job, how does it weigh up? how well does it contribute or how well does it fare compared to other jobs?
Consider everyone is at equal skill, has the same knowledge, and is well aware of how to tag armors/weapons/gear.
And yes, people will pot if they have to.
Basically a pretty standard PvP mid-high rate.

Transcendent classes only
in my opinion..

Solo tier list

Top tier
- Assassin Cross
- Creator
- Professor
- Champion

High tier
- Paladin
- Stalker
- Sniper

Mid tier
- Lord Knight
- Gypsy
- Whitesmith
- Clown
- High Wiz

Low tier
- Ranked Taekwon
- Ninja
- Gunslinger
- High Priest
- Taekwon
- Soul Linker

Teamplay tier list

Top tier
- Creator
- Paladin
- Clown
- Professor

High tier
- High wizard
- Assassin Cross
- High Priest
- Gypsy
- Champion

Mid tier
- Sniper
- Soul linker
- Stalker
- White Smith

Low tier
- Lord Knight
- Ranked Taekwon
- Ninja
- Gunslinger
- Taekwon


Solo tier list explanation
Everything under the top tier automatically has disadvantages compared to the top tier. Their kill potential, survivability and mobility is innately good.
Nothing, for example comes close to the sheer power of Assassin Cross EDP sonic blow that can change to any element, you can tag to defensive gear while doing it to supplement your survivability, couple that with a ridiculous high HP mod, two escape/initiate methods (backslide, cloak) and you've got yourself the top tier solo job. Grimtooth is there for the ranged damage, stacks with EDP, carries status and takes over elements.
Assassins also have access to throw knife which carries status and allows them to wear a cranial while doing it. It's like a free status on anything that doesn't wear unfrozen/evil druid.

Creator is also top tier. Acid demonstration potentially breaks the enemy gear, deals amazing damage, is somewhat spammable and it's ranged putting snipers to shame. Creators also have access to homuncili, notably the bolt one which deals flat out painful magic damage. As for survivability and augmented mobility, they can heal their HP/SP for a ridiculous amount with throw potion and lif is there for potential getaways. Absolute top tier, nothing from the lower tiers comes close to a well played creator.

Professors are a nifty case, they're imo top tier to the max because of their space controlling abilities and disables. Granted, they are shut down by a golden thief bug but under the given circumstances this card is rare. Professor can disable physical damage, AoE magic damage, single target magic damage, disable spells that are being cast and put a huge dent in ranged damage, while still dealing out double bolted fire/ice magic damage. This truly puts wizards to shame for solo play. As for debuffs, they can dispell, drain mana, stone curse, freeze, make you take more from magic damage, amplify fire damage, make water/fire/wind do more damage in certain space. List goes on. A well played professor will not allow you to move or make you damage him.. he can render you absolutely useless while wearing you down.

Champion is self explanatory, anti range while having range, asura strike, sick mobility with body relocate and heal/bless/agi. In a sense they're kind of glass cannons if built to maximize damage, but they're the best damn glass cannon in RO.

That's pretty much it.. in the future I might typ out more stuff but I kind of want to stir up a discussion about jobs, pretty much what this section is about.
Agree? Disagree? have different tier list in mind? Disagree with some of my points, please post <:

[Sarin]

It's very situational. For example, in duels, if High Priest got Ledger of Death and proper build, he jumps from low to high tier. LK quite sucks when rules allow potting due to their relatively low DPS compared to some classes, but well played LK in non-potting duels can tear up people very easily.

Also, I'd move Sniper from high to mid tier for solo, since they possess only ranged damage they are easy to counter. Good wiz can make it to high tier easily, and I would probably move Gypsy to high tier too...if played well. Ranked Taekwon is at least mid tier in duels.

[Relics]

Hmm.. I still don't think even an ASPD ledger of death priest can take people solo vs some of the upper tiers. It's like playing taekwon/whitesmith, you're very susceptible to kiting and rely on getting into melee range, and just a safety wall shuts you down.. not high tier at all imo lol.

Snipers f*** rape, i don't know you're on man but hell.. a well played sniper > a well played champion. Play any sniper that has a sick APM and knows how to trap you, drain your SP constantly, stun you, sleep you, push you out of your pneuma.. sniper is def high tier imo. Their only problem is no reliable escape, low hp and their skill ceiling is very very high (might just be the class that requires the highest APM even above champ/prof)

Reason I put high wiz low is because they're sitting ducks, moving puts you at a disadvantage vs melee and you have absolutely no defense vs ranged coupled with their low hp and low stun resistance.. yeah, in comparison I find that everything above high wiz in tiers can shut him down, both equally skilled. Coupled with babysit/support wiz skyrockets in tiers though lol.

Gypsy meh, she has two ranged attacks, debuffs and tarot, relies on RNG for getting good tarots I thought she'd be find on near top of mid tier.. since ranged damage alone can be reduced by a lot and her disables aren't as effective as sniper traps imo.

Ranked taekwons are too easy to shut down, this counts for anything that needs to get close, and only has melee imo.
Things that shut melee only down or severely hamper their dps:
- Safety wall
- Gypsy
- Sniper
- Web/traps
- Somebody who walks faster
- Cloak
- Backslide
- Ranged skills
- Knockback (negated by strong shield but you take more damage that way)
- Strip ofc
list goes on, its pretty dodgy playing a melee only class that has to get close

[Sarin]

Hmm.. I still don't think even an ASPD ledger of death priest can take people solo vs some of the upper tiers. It's like playing taekwon/whitesmith, you're very susceptible to kiting and rely on getting into melee range, and just a safety wall shuts you down.. not high tier at all imo lol.

It's not a fast kill for sure, but it's actually quite possible. SW can be blocked with Pneuma, and priest possess a wide range of tactical skills that can very reduce harm to him. Lex Divina, Decrease Agility, Assumptio, Pneuma, Sw...do I have to go on?

Snipers f*** rape, i don't know you're on man but hell.. a well played sniper > a well played champion. Play any sniper that has a sick APM and knows how to trap you, drain your SP constantly, stun you, sleep you, push you out of your pneuma.. sniper is def high tier imo. Their only problem is no reliable escape, low hp and their skill ceiling is very very high (might just be the class that requires the highest APM even above champ/prof)

I've been playing against snipers, and they're not THAT powerful. They do have some annoying skills, but relying on traps do make them sitting ducks. There are ways for a lot of classes to get them down. Pneuma is just one of those.

Reason I put high wiz low is because they're sitting ducks, moving puts you at a disadvantage vs melee and you have absolutely no defense vs ranged coupled with their low hp and low stun resistance.. yeah, in comparison I find that everything above high wiz in tiers can shut him down, both equally skilled. Coupled with babysit/support wiz skyrockets in tiers though lol.

Ow, ever played one? Hwiz can dictate range of engagement at least against some classes. JT, Quagmire, Fire Pillar, Fire Wall, Storm Gust can all be used to take it to range if facing melee chars, or can be used to close the distance. Not a sitting duck at all. High INT+vitata clip makes bailing out of combat and returning in full hp possible.

Gypsy meh, she has two ranged attacks, debuffs and tarot, relies on RNG for getting good tarots I thought she'd be find on near top of mid tier.. since ranged damage alone can be reduced by a lot and her disables aren't as effective as sniper traps imo.

Gypsy is one of characters that have problem with ranged chars for sure...but can pull off a good fight against melee. I'd personally take one over sniper, but that's my preference....

Ranked taekwons are too easy to shut down, this counts for anything that needs to get close, and only has melee imo.
.
.
.
list goes on, its pretty dodgy playing a melee only class that has to get close

One answer for that. Flying side kick. Against good ranker, if you don't have 97 vit or Orc Hero card, once he manages to get combos going...goodbye. They have also damn good HP mod due to ranker bonus. Definitely not low tier.

Overall, I think you underestimate characters whose style is attrition (except for snipers).

[Relics]

Maybe we had reverse situations in the PvP servers we played lol

In general, the snipers in the servers I played were not sitting ducks at all, they were mobile even while trapping, constantly animation canceling and showering/pushing you out of pneuma all the time. As for the melee classes like taekwon.. guess they were underplayed, but overall I find them easy to shut down.. not just in theory but practically I feel like they are outclassed by those with range, higher mobility or a melee skill + a ranged skill innately.


Also about ledger high priest blocking swall with pneuma is gimmicky.. as I can just reswall somewhere and move there without it being blocked ever which shuts your priest down for.. the longest time ever.
Honestly, a high priest with a ledger should not be high tier if you're playing on a server with decent players.. imo, might sound harsh but like sinx, champ, crea, sniper, stalker, gypsy, clown all have ways to stay away from a HP that has to get close. Sure, priest has decrease agi but then there's backslide, cloak, chase walk, gypsys debuff, clown freeze/tarot, crea's rape with ad, body relocate, blade stop, pps..

there are so many ways to not have someone get close there are more reliable melee dpser's out there like whitesmith, I also don't see a high priest beat a whitesmith in a standoff since you'll get stunned and effed sideways.

basically, a lot of things in high/mid > ledge priest.. and anything else that is melee arguably does it better since ledger priest relies on RNG alot.

[Sarin]

It is about playstyle. Any smart priest won't just charge up and start smacking enemy with his book. Yes, he can deal the damage only at melee, but compared to, for example, WS, or almost any other class that is also limited to one type of attack, HP got a lot more options how to force the engagement at melee range.

Aaaanyway...this conversation clearly shows that such sorting of classes is irrelevant. There are, especially when it comes down to 1 vs 1 pvp, many builds and many ways.

[Gene]

Have you guys tried using a WS with Throw Tomahawk+Meltdown? I tried it and it works pretty well.

[Relics]

@Sarin
I guess that is right, which is what makes it a very open ended debate :>

@Gene
2008/05/07
   * Added Throw tomahawk to the list of items that do not trigger the
     equipment breaking code.
It was awesome till 2008 :<

[datme]

Teamplay tier list

Top tier
- Creator
- Paladin
- Clown
- Professor
- High wizard
- High Priest

High tier
- Gypsy
- Champion
- Stalker
- Sniper

Mid tier
- Soul linker
- White Smith
- Assassin Cross

Low tier
- Lord Knight
- Ranked Taekwon
- Ninja
- Gunslinger
- Taekwon

Pretty much more like this.

[SpaceFalcon]

Lol @ competitive PvP discussion.

This game is a joke for balance...

[datme]

Lol @ competitive PvP discussion.

This game is a joke for balance...

Not entirely true.

While the game is ridiculously imbalanced for PvP, it's quite balanced for WoE.

[Relics]

I'd say PvP is really imbalanced yea, in optimal conditions there are setups which you shouldn't be able to break and absolutely decimate the rest of the setups (like the paladin devo crea clown prof ball)

As for balance in solo, meh.. sinx takes the cake and outshines everything in all departments.

@datme i like your list, i myself would've putten sinx in high at the least cause of the sheer power.

[fluidin]

linker would definitely have to go high tier. linked linkers spamming KK from the backline is pretty damned pro especially in teamplay.

gypsy.. well. i would say dazzler is gamebreaking, so its more like in a tier of its own. dazzler kinda FORCES everyone to go high vit or 1vit+stun immunity gear. its almost always taken for granted by the better woe-guilds tho.

i'm okay with sinx remaining mid-tier actually. in ME battles sinxs are just so easy to shutdown, especially those who aren't REALLY pro. even when played by pros it's difficult to perform consistently.

LKs go mid-high tier when you actually have a squad of them. just plain devastating.


hm. i agree with the solo list for the most part. however for me its more black and white. sinx prof champ top. everything else low(er) as they somehow get decimated by top tier classes w/o some form of support. creo is plain outpottable w/o bragi. vani escapable.

[Relics]

Hm, yea you have a point.. consistency is hard to maintain for a sinx in the middle of a f***. As for gypsy, yeah.. dazzler/scream is amazing, but most builds out there that have some sort of success have ways around stun.

a WoE list would be interesting, I'd say gypsy could be so top there, maybe clown too as both of them have set the standard for unfrozen + stun immunity or die.

[datme]

linker would definitely have to go high tier. linked linkers spamming KK from the backline is pretty damned pro especially in teamplay.

gypsy.. well. i would say dazzler is gamebreaking, so its more like in a tier of its own. dazzler kinda FORCES everyone to go high vit or 1vit+stun immunity gear. its almost always taken for granted by the better woe-guilds tho.

i'm okay with sinx remaining mid-tier actually. in ME battles sinxs are just so easy to shutdown, especially those who aren't REALLY pro. even when played by pros it's difficult to perform consistently.

LKs go mid-high tier when you actually have a squad of them. just plain devastating.


hm. i agree with the solo list for the most part. however for me its more black and white. sinx prof champ top. everything else low(er) as they somehow get decimated by top tier classes w/o some form of support. creo is plain outpottable w/o bragi. vani escapable.

Linkers aren't high tier at all.

Kaite is trash due to the eAthena bug(Pallies taking kaite'd damage)
Kaupe is quite useless too considering it's only 1 hit out of the countless hits you receive.

Dazzler is barely used. Every class has stun immunity and those who don't are simply retards that forget to use foods.
Gypsy is only used for Slow Gracing and Riff.