Stop making conventional spear knights...

[MWright967]

I honestly have no idea why people make conventional spear knight anymore. Really.

Heres a conventional spear knight:

Pierce, brandish spear, spear stab, spear boomerang.

Now, let me ask you for a second here.....Why is Pierce so good? Its really not. Okay, you can spam it to 'some' extent, but not more so than Bash. Bash adds more hit, and stuns, and can even be spammed a bit better. Okay, so people make an argument for ''Well its for large size enemies''. Really? Okay, so its inferior for everything EXCEPT large size enemies....Okay.....Well, what about medium, and small? There brandish, right? Well lets see...Brandish, while a great mobbing skill, isn't really that good. Unlike bowling bash, it doesn't hit twice for 500% damage (1000 total), it costs more SP, and...Its really not much better at mobbing than a well aim'ed BB. And it CERTAINLY does not hit all the enemies twice like BB does. That rips anything apart.

A GOOD Spear Knight:

Bowling Bash, Counter Attack, Spear Boomerang.

People just don't get why this is better, so let me tell you.

I do experiments with this all the time. I put on my freezing full plate, with +10 quadruple bloody pike, and went over to an orc lady. Let it get frozen. Had wind endow on. I then bowling bashed it with that, and i saw about 5k. Behind that 5k, theres another 5k. It did 10k.

I did the exact same with brandish spear, and it did about 4.5k by itself. Thats under half the damage of bowling bash.

Okay, so what about pierce?

I went over to a Strouf and did it. The strouf took about 7.5k from bowling bash, and about 3.1k from pierce. Pierce is waaayyyy superior <.<

Now, going this route, you also get Auto Counter. This means? Good bye combo monks, assassins, rogues, and pretty much any melee based class that even a fraction of its fighting without skills.


Now, some people like to moan about, ''Well its only 7 SP, so for 7 SP, 2 pierces is gonna be more than Bash''. Cool........Thats great and all but, Bash adds +50 to hit, is faster, and stuns by 25%, thats awesome. I'd take bash over pierce any day. There is such a thing as grape juice you know. Also, if you have to use a skill TWICE just to make up for me using it once..I'd say, you can take pierce, I'll leave it.

I dueled another spear knight with my spear knight. He did, oh, 350 with his brandish to me...You know what I did to him? 1.3k with bowling bash. And frozen? About 4k. Now this is on somone with about 80 vit def, and 50 some normal defense. Thats a pretty overwhelming differince.

Now, some people are going to say, ''But to get the max damage of bowling bash you'll need them to be frozen, right?''.... Haha, wrong. I use wind + freeze because its easy, is very powerful, and just seems logical. You can do it with any or no endow, and with any weapon, its still going to be more powerful than Brandish.

Now I know some of the old schooler's are going to beat me up over this...But please, try it before anything. Bowling Bash is just, superior, I'm sorry. The only, ONLY thing pierce really has over Bash, is that it hitting multiple times keep the enemy off balance. Personally, I'd rather have damage than a little bit of hit-lock.

[Toztie]

and pierce is faster then blowing bash, and vs monsters doesnt keep pushing 1 5 spots back

[MWright967]

Uhm......Lets see......I don't know about you, but if your fighting a single enemy 99% of the time, your character is probably crap.

It knocks them ack, into other enemies, making THEM recieve 1000% damage as well........When your leveling from about 65-99, your going to be in glast heim, biolab, etc. places where you are going to be MOBBING. FYI: Theres a reason they speed up and come back at you really fast when you knock them away.

Thirdly, pierce is 300% right? If it takes you more than 3 pierces to kill something, which is only 900% damage, you should probably re-think your build. One MAYBE two bowlig bashes should kill pretty much any leveling-monster.

[Kurogasa]

Some of the stuff your saying isnt right but it doesnt matter cus the general theme is correct. BB is better than brandish and brandish is only useful now as a prereq for LK. You have to remember though, that BB got a beef. A while ago it was crap... it did alot less damage and only hit once. Thats why people used to choose brandish.

The good knights this stuff is already common knowledge though.

[Toztie]

Uhm......Lets see......I don't know about you, but if your fighting a single enemy 99% of the time, your character is probably crap.

It knocks them ack, into other enemies, making THEM recieve 1000% damage as well........When your leveling from about 65-99, your going to be in glast heim, biolab, etc. places where you are going to be MOBBING. FYI: Theres a reason they speed up and come back at you really fast when you knock them away.

Thirdly, pierce is 300% right? If it takes you more than 3 pierces to kill something, which is only 900% damage, you should probably re-think your build. One MAYBE two bowlig bashes should kill pretty much any leveling-monster.

you are taking it too far... its not like im trying to kill you there. I just tell you why i got pierce too. cus if you fight in pvp blowing bash does a lot of dammage ya, but its not very handy on classes who make your pushing them back to their atvantage.
futhermore i have played many knights and concurently quited ro. My first knight had brandish and i powerlvled him to 99. it worked fine, too some time but it was fun. Sure now you say BB is better, it prolly is but its a players decision. futhermore i think pierce is a great attack, 9 sp and a good dammage.

[MWright967]

Uhm......Lets see......I don't know about you, but if your fighting a single enemy 99% of the time, your character is probably crap.

It knocks them ack, into other enemies, making THEM recieve 1000% damage as well........When your leveling from about 65-99, your going to be in glast heim, biolab, etc. places where you are going to be MOBBING. FYI: Theres a reason they speed up and come back at you really fast when you knock them away.

Thirdly, pierce is 300% right? If it takes you more than 3 pierces to kill something, which is only 900% damage, you should probably re-think your build. One MAYBE two bowlig bashes should kill pretty much any leveling-monster.

you are taking it too far... its not like im trying to kill you there. I just tell you why i got pierce too. cus if you fight in pvp blowing bash does a lot of dammage ya, but its not very handy on classes who make your pushing them back to their atvantage.
futhermore i have played many knights and concurently quited ro. My first knight had brandish and i powerlvled him to 99. it worked fine, too some time but it was fun. Sure now you say BB is better, it prolly is but its a players decision. futhermore i think pierce is a great attack, 9 sp and a good dammage.

Oh no no no...Builds can NEVER go too far. Pierce is good for TWO things, large monsters and spamming. However, so is bash. Its also more powerful generally. Pierce really just isn't worth getting, considering getting ONE skill, bowling bash, outdoes it in damage, outdoes brandish in damage/mobbing, and outdoes all in PvP. You can't have it all obviously, you either get pierce or bowling bash, not enough skill points to max both unless you want to cut out some good stuff, like spear mastery. Also, there really isn't a class that REALLY gets an advantage from being pushed back.

Lets imagine hunters and bards for a moment, really the only classes that would recieve ANY advantage. Knockback works a little like stun, because for the time period your knocked back, and a little afterwards, your not able to do anything. Any good knight on a peco is going to be able to get RIGHT next to you and start hacking away by the time you get to do ANYTHING. So, essentially, pierce is useless. Its 7 SP, and 3 x 7= 21, and bowling bash is 22. Thats only 900% damage vs. ONE hit of 1000%, not really a great skill if you ask me.

[Toztie]

again, you only see your own arguments, you are blinded by your arrogance of your knight being good. Thats not my whole point. You are talking about things i never event mentiond. why i took pierce lvl 10 too and BB lvl 10, cus spear mastery sucks. and if you fight against hunters which you push back which gives them to oppertunity to trap again. Same for rouges and assins, push them back and they will hide backstab you.

[MWright967]

again, you only see your own arguments, you are blinded by your arrogance of your knight being good. Thats not my whole point. You are talking about things i never event mentiond. why i took pierce lvl 10 too and BB lvl 10, cus spear mastery sucks. and if you fight against hunters which you push back which gives them to oppertunity to trap again. Same for rouges and assins, push them back and they will hide backstab you.

1: No it doesn't suck, only a nooblet would say that. I would WAY rather have the extra damage than to waste it on a crappy skill like pierce.

2: Uhhh, did you not just get the ENTIRE POINT of my freaking thing about , ''Pushing them back doesn't give them long enough to do anything'', anyone who's dueled on a peco should know that. Let me reiterate, THEY DO NOT HAVE ENOUGH TIME TO DO ANYTHING JUST BECAUSE OF KNOCKBACK.

3: Rogues lol??? If your VIT KNIGHT is being hurt by a back stab rogue, remake, seriously. Two words: Sight clip.

4: No, I'm not ''Only seeing my own argument'', I'm not PAYING ATTENTION, to one so retarded as yours. TAKE IT FROM ME, you don't need pierce, and its utterly worthless. I've played this game since it first originated around 1999, I think I should know a tiiiiiiiiiiiny bit more than you

[Toztie]

haha, you didnt even read wut i said. just BAM talk all over it. I dont want a flame war, but your kinda trolling here. Just read my agruments and argue like an adult. You used in your post enough words to insult me. Which is completly unessecery because 1 i never insulted you, 2 i and just giving my oppionon, which you kinda asked for in the first post. Why else make such a post, cus you know it turns into a flame war. So you say you have more ro expierence then me. Okay

Now your dead. read this

one you are kinda insulting.

Secondly According to wikipedia Ragnarok Online (Korean: 라그ë,˜ë¡œí¬ 온라인), often referred to as RO, is a massively multiplayer online role-playing game created by GRAVITY Co., Ltd. based on the manhwa Ragnarok by Lee Myung-Jin. It was first released in South Korea on 31 August 2002 for Microsoft Windows and has since been released in many other locales around the world. "source http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ragnarok_Online"

Which would mean you had the game 3 years before the official release. Quite strange. ( if this 2002 is wrong get teh evidence. then ill take it back.)

Thirdly I read in your introduction post ", and I have what I believe to be a mature attitude towards the game and life in general)." which doesnt show in your posts. as i asked above i want to keep the dicussion mature and not start USING CAPS LOCK AND CALLING OTHER PEOPLE NOOBLETS NOOBS AND IDIOTS. sorry for that. OOO i forgot, also calling other peoples characters crap is really mature,


fourthly
you already got a warning for insulting or taking it to far. Very mature

Fiftly
You havent set your signature right. didnt you learn that in your 7 years ro.

Sixtly
a qoute from one of your 5 I WANT TO BE GM TOPICS 'and I have what I believe to be the maturity and state of mind to be 25, so if your worried about responsibility, don't, it won't be an issue." and you need to update your ages too. In one topic you said you started at age 8 in 2000 Anotherone says 9 in 2001 and this one says in 1999 Get to teh point bro. o

okay thats my words. i dont hope that it insulted you and i hope you bother to read this. this prolly gets me a warning for starting a flame war, but who cares. im prolly done with ro anyway. and for you, im Tim age 17 and playing ro since 2004.

ps i know your gonna flame now and bla bla bla happed 100 times before and talk about my bad grammar and interpunction ect. so dont be mature

[MWright967]

haha, you didnt even read wut i said. just BAM talk all over it. I dont want a flame war, but your kinda trolling here. Just read my agruments and argue like an adult. You used in your post enough words to insult me. Which is completly unessecery because 1 i never insulted you, 2 i and just giving my oppionon, which you kinda asked for in the first post. Why else make such a post, cus you know it turns into a flame war. So you say you have more ro expierence then me. Okay

Now your dead. read this

one you are kinda insulting.

Secondly According to wikipedia Ragnarok Online (Korean: 라그ë,˜ë¡œí¬ 온라인), often referred to as RO, is a massively multiplayer online role-playing game created by GRAVITY Co., Ltd. based on the manhwa Ragnarok by Lee Myung-Jin. It was first released in South Korea on 31 August 2002 for Microsoft Windows and has since been released in many other locales around the world. "source http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ragnarok_Online"

Which would mean you had the game 3 years before the official release. Quite strange. ( if this 2002 is wrong get teh evidence. then ill take it back.)

Thirdly I read in your introduction post ", and I have what I believe to be a mature attitude towards the game and life in general)." which doesnt show in your posts. as i asked above i want to keep the dicussion mature and not start USING CAPS LOCK AND CALLING OTHER PEOPLE NOOBLETS NOOBS AND IDIOTS. sorry for that. OOO i forgot, also calling other peoples characters crap is really mature,


fourthly
you already got a warning for insulting or taking it to far. Very mature

Fiftly
You havent set your signature right. didnt you learn that in your 7 years ro.

Sixtly
a qoute from one of your 5 I WANT TO BE GM TOPICS 'and I have what I believe to be the maturity and state of mind to be 25, so if your worried about responsibility, don't, it won't be an issue." and you need to update your ages too. In one topic you said you started at age 8 in 2000 Anotherone says 9 in 2001 and this one says in 1999 Get to teh point bro. o

okay thats my words. i dont hope that it insulted you and i hope you bother to read this. this prolly gets me a warning for starting a flame war, but who cares. im prolly done with ro anyway. and for you, im Tim age 17 and playing ro since 2004.

ps i know your gonna flame now and bla bla bla happed 100 times before and talk about my bad grammar and interpunction ect. so dont be mature

Flame you? Haha, no. I'm just going to show you how extremely silly you are.

I'm dead...??

FYI: What they don't tell you, and you might try getting better sources than wikipedia, is thantRO was realesed on a GRAND SCALE IN 2002, AND ONLY FOR THE INTERNATIONAL VERSION. The Korean Beta version has been around since about.... 1998. But you'de know that, right? Because you have reliable sources like wikipedia and your own thoughts, correct?

Also, I do have a mature attitude. Your obviously not as knowledgeable as I am, and despite my extreme and outrageous examples and reasons for why pierce is un-needed, YOU took it this far, and would be the one to get out of control, and thus your entire post.

I'm immature, huh? Interesting, well considering the fact you felt the need to spend about 30 minutes typing up a meaningless post JUST TO GET BACK AT SOMONE WHO DISAGREED WITH YOU, then I'd say your a bit on the short end of the maturity stick, wouldn't you?

Anyone can get warned for any reason. Hey genius, heres an idea, have you looked at the post I was warned for? It was for using some bad language, and it wasn't even insulting. The guy who almost got OJ put away used bad language, does that mean hes ''Immature''? No. Thats just your sullied view of it.

Uhm....Gee....In one I say age 8....In one I say age 9.......Have you ever POSSIBLY, AMAZINGLY, DRASTICALLY! considered...That 8 and 9 are....OMG....Close together???!!!!!! I can't remember the exact age I started playing. If I was playing in 1999 or 2000, I could be 8 or 9 in both of those years depending on the month and day I was born. Please, spare me your idiocy.

How about this, stop being a little retard and grow up. I've done nothing to you but vigorously state my point, and if your too much of a weak, frail little pissant to give GOOD SOLID REASONS why Pierce is or was needed, and actually counter-act my points, maybe I'd have a tiiiiiinnnyyy bit more respect for you, and maybe you wouldn't be so easily offset.

Advice: Go find something more productive to do than failingly attempt to embarass me. Kthxbai.

[Rbread]

Blah blah blah blah people have different opinions, people start e-debates to bolster their e-reputation, e-debates leads to neverending e-arguments which lead to personal insults, topic is closed, bye bye.  If you want to rant (which the topic starter is doing), then do so in the off topic.

Topic Locked

(Run ones rock)