Happy Summer guys.
Dead server lmao everyone left
315 players online right now which is on par with the other largest low rate servers.
pretty sure most of the old population are waiting for the new patch... OGH
I know I am
can we take the time to appreciate that playtester is out here like a firefighter going around putting out the flames of all these arsonists in the world
Quote from: betwixtbetween on Jun 22, 2023, 09:52 AMDead server lmao everyone left
Where did they go? I only care about the social component at this point. Sweating on a 20-yr-old game is ridiculous at this point.
Quote from: Lunalepsy on Jul 23, 2023, 02:50 PMWhere did they go? I only care about the social component at this point. Sweating on a 20-yr-old game is ridiculous at this point.
Nowhere particular since it's just a typical pre-re server cycle. None of the promised content were ever implemented, server issues still linger, WoE guilds left and it's divided into SE and FE which made it less competitive. So naturally the server population thinned out.
Quote from: Lunalepsy on Jul 23, 2023, 02:50 PMWhere did they go? I only care about the social component at this point. Sweating on a 20-yr-old game is ridiculous at this point.
Social component is still there. People whine about a so-called "dead server" when P-Alf is hundreds strong at any given time of day and there are always parties recruiting to go to Odin, Niff, Byalan, etc. Episode 13 was implemented last week, too. I would suggest giving it a shot yourself or at least inquiring on the Discord, which is also very active with both players and staff.
Quote from: Playtester on Jun 22, 2023, 03:43 PM315 players online right now which is on par with the other largest low rate servers.
Except one is a multiclient sh!thole while the other forbids it.
Pretty disingenuous to compare the two, my little rat. /??
Quote from: Herpderp on Jul 25, 2023, 05:40 PMExcept one is a multiclient sh!thole while the other forbids it.
Pretty disingenuous to compare the two, my little rat. /??
I didn't just compare two servers. I don't even know what server you are talking about. Is there a large server right now that forbids multiclienting?
And it's really hard to tell the impact of multiclienting anyway. Just like it's hard to tell if servers that only show one number include vendors or not and how much % are vendors. So it's just rough estimations.
Quote from: Playtester on Jul 25, 2023, 05:52 PMI didn't just compare two servers. I don't even know what server you are talking about. Is there a large server right now that forbids multiclienting?
And it's really hard to tell the impact of multiclienting anyway. Just like it's hard to tell if servers that only show one number include vendors or not and how much % are vendors. So it's just rough estimations.
It's hard to measure even servers that "forbid" multiclienting as I assume most (if not all) are similar in such rules, where they claim to forbid multiclient but never actually enforce it, so it's basically an environment where people still multiclient nonstop, it's just harder to do it and you have to do extra-steps to be able to, which is a hassle. Played in many, would, on a daily basis, mass report obvious multiclienters to ADMs, GMs, CMs and even bring up names, screenshots and videos on discord yet it would take ages for any of them to get any action, if any, and when it happened it would be just a very small temporary mute.
Never again to trust such servers as it's not fair for me to follow and play by the rules while people are breaking it constantly with no punishment /shrug
Quote from: Playtester on Jul 25, 2023, 05:52 PMAnd it's really hard to tell the impact of multiclienting anyway. Just like it's hard to tell if servers that only show one number include vendors or not and how much % are vendors. So it's just rough estimations.
Really Rattester? /hmm You could have just taken the L but you're really gonna overdose on copium like this?
Come on, tell me multiclienting doesn't inflate the playercount massively, that's it's just a dozen people having two clients open at any given time. I wanna see you spell out your disingenuous rat snake cope word-for-word. /heh
reminder that alfheim records unique users online.
There's 24/7 parties there, I dunno how multiclient matters in any scenario.
24/7 parties of the same old content. Might as well call it a regular pre-re since no "custom" content were even implemented for months now.
Quote from: betwixtbetween on Jul 26, 2023, 01:44 PM24/7 parties of the same old content. Might as well call it a regular pre-re since no "custom" content were even implemented for months now.
I dunno if it matters if people are having fun. Alfheim has more than enough content to keep people busy for months.
At the end of the day, people will just multiclient anyway and unless you ask for a livecam stream, you can't actually say.
Quote from: Herpderp on Jul 26, 2023, 04:48 AMReally Rattester? /hmm You could have just taken the L but you're really gonna overdose on copium like this?
Come on, tell me multiclienting doesn't inflate the playercount massively, that's it's just a dozen people having two clients open at any given time. I wanna see you spell out your disingenuous rat snake cope word-for-word. /heh
Do you play there?
Quote from: Xellie on Jul 26, 2023, 03:45 PMI dunno if it matters if people are having fun. Alfheim has more than enough content to keep people busy for months.
The actual goal is for people to have fun. This is the only thing that matters at the end of the day. Not everyone plays more than 1~2 hours a day. And as much as I hate the meta the server had when I played; there are more places and more builds to test around. Just like people despise Anubis and call it the only endgame while you have a whole game to play, just not as "optimal".
Quote from: Zulf on Jul 26, 2023, 04:13 PMAt the end of the day, people will just multiclient anyway and unless you ask for a livecam stream, you can't actually say.
Do you play there?
The actual goal is for people to have fun. This is the only thing that matters at the end of the day. Not everyone plays more than 1~2 hours a day. And as much as I hate the meta the server had when I played; there are more places and more builds to test around. Just like people despise Anubis and call it the only endgame while you have a whole game to play, just not as "optimal".
I don't know if [muilticlienting] matters, [so long as] people are having fun.
Pardon my Engrish.
Quote from: Xellie on Jul 26, 2023, 06:38 PMI don't know if [muilticlienting] matters, [so long as] people are having fun.
Pardon my Engrish.
In the end, the real multiclienting was always the friends we made along the way.
Quote from: Xellie on Jul 26, 2023, 03:45 PMI dunno if it matters if people are having fun. Alfheim has more than enough content to keep people busy for months.
I'm glad it matters. Why would you want to play a game where no one is having fun? Might as well create your own server and keep yourself busy for months. :)
I just left this server. It felt extremely dead, and the communication was poor in terms of community involvement. Not only that, they blocked players from communicating until level 50, and thought this was the correct choice to prevent ONE spammer from spamming. It also has some entitled person who thinks what they do is unorthodox and they deserve respect for "helping" the server, yet, they allowed the mute till 50 to go on for months, not realizing how many people left simply because of it. I understand there was some p2w controversy, but there's far more to discuss in regards to the blatant ignorance that this server owner, and his community, is showing. It was the loneliest feeling that I have experienced on any server thus far, and this is coming from a person who runs away from friends online, to be alone.
Quote from: Felione on Nov 04, 2023, 02:35 PMNot only that, they blocked players from communicating until level 50
Oh wow, that's sounds indeed pretty bad. Is that just being blocked from using the global channel or can't you chat with others at all?
Quote from: Playtester on Nov 04, 2023, 03:10 PMOh wow, that's sounds indeed pretty bad. Is that just being blocked from using the global channel or can't you chat with others at all?
Global channel. Regardless, new players were (most likely still are, but they mentioned it was changing apparently) shafted by something a staff member can easily remedy. I left the server twice, because I gave it another chance, but the lack of communication even after reaching level 50 was just too saddening.
Its a great server for people that aren`t just for the nostalgia trip and will leave in 1 month. There is an insane amount of content, giant new patch just dropped with another on the way. Server is in a the same spot of 200-300 players(+900 mercs) and would be great if it grew again.
I don`t even know what to say if you feel locked from the server because you cant speak on main before 50. Why do you even want to speak on main? And even a new player would reach 50 after a full day of playing... I dont even understand the criticism.
It`s grindy, but there is so much content and with options its not hard for an experienced RO player to buy cheap mid rolled gears and do most of the content with weeks of play.
I guess it does feel dead, specially at some times of the day. But there is always at least 1 pub party recruiting at all times. When you get to know the people that make part of this small comunity you realize it is not so dead after all.
I hope more people give alfheim a chance!
Quote from: amoryblaine on Nov 23, 2023, 02:21 PMWhy do you even want to speak on main?
To ask questions, to communicate, to laugh, to cry, to complain, to praise, to offer advice, to ask for advice, to bond, to understand the demographic, and most importantly, to feel like I'm not playing alone. If you can't understand this, then why are you even playing an mmo?
Quote from: amoryblaine on Nov 23, 2023, 02:21 PMI hope more people give alfheim a chance!
Clearly they did, the server had like 1000 log-ins (not autotraders) at one point I think? /heh
I do wonder what exactly caused the collapse of the server though, considering the amount of content it has to keep people engaged. Every time I ask people who played there it's just something along the lines of "Charlie is a fkn retard, i want to stab him to death (in minecraft)" but no specifics. /hmm
Quote from: Herpderp on Nov 27, 2023, 05:31 PMClearly they did, the server had like 1000 log-ins (not autotraders) at one point I think? /heh
I do wonder what exactly caused the collapse of the server though, considering the amount of content it has to keep people engaged. Every time I ask people who played there it's just something along the lines of "Charlie is a fkn retard, i want to stab him to death (in minecraft)" but no specifics. /hmm
This is probably in regards to spontaneous changes, which probably the vast majority didn't agree with, but as long as the few discord goers agree, everything is fine. I think it was just a lack of communication between the players (the actual players, not your favorite 3) and the staff. There's also really like one place to level efficiently, and you're locked into it until nameless/thor is available to you, but even then, the parties would be mild in those locations and people just leveled in kitty candy land. Unfortunately, that area was customized for geared players to abuse, so new players had no idea how to approach the dungeon, nor could they ask about it on main. (level 50 base to talk on main)
If you just read that, you can already see so many problems, just colliding into each other like bumper cars. It's strangely not a newbie friendly experience, at all. Sure, the game provides you with some gear, but once you're free, you hit a wall, and another one, and another one, until you just go back the way you came. Playing other servers. :D
Quote from: Herpderp on Nov 27, 2023, 05:31 PM[...] Charlie is a fkn retard [...]
Can't speak for everyone, but that's exactly the case for me and my group. We don't have any servers to play currently ever since Origins closed because we refuse to play on meme servers with shady, greedy or weird admins.
Awhile ago when people were exposing the corruption on TalonRO/Talon Tales, Charlie was one of the big supporters that tried really hard to defend and justify Talon's antics, while bashing the players exposing all the corrupt cases that happened on that server.
That to me/us showed he's not any different from the Seiren/Boreas/Talon and that they don't deserve any love or support from the community.
Quote from: Playtester on Nov 04, 2023, 03:10 PMOh wow, that's sounds indeed pretty bad. Is that just being blocked from using the global channel or can't you chat with others at all?
just the global channels. and we thought we removed it but it somehow got reverted. we'll be fixing that soon.
Hey Team, I was thinking about coming back to Alfheim, but I saw this thread and logged in to see even less people online :D When I left, Alfheim was the hip place to play at. Where's everybody playing now? /hmm
It's still super fun to play! Old Glast Heim was just released recently, with maps intended for solo-players as well as ones intended for parties. Some of the map mechanics are hit or miss, but it was always the admin's intentions in order to try something different for RO gameplay. He seemed open enough to feedback (Discord threads for OGH feedback as well as general solo play feedback) and what people are looking for going forward.
Airship Assault content was also released alongside the bigger OGH area.
Whitesmiths also received a new quality-of-life quest skill called Cart Efficiency that lets you use a catalyst called Tempered Steel (made w/ 3 Iron + 3 Iron Ore at blacksmith guild) to remove the zeny cost of Cart Term for 10mins. It has honestly breathed new life into my main class because I can use my single damage skill without going poor all the time. It got super old farming Geffenia just to get enough zeny to use my class in other places I actually wanted to.
Nightmare Clock Tower is also a smaller update that is releasing soon and seems like it is going to be geared a bit more towards solo players.
Expanded rework is coming in the spring where most classes will get their soul link buffs inherently instead of requiring an alt soul linker. Soul Linker itself is getting a rebalance where linking someone will also tether you to them like Devotion and lets you use Ka- spells on your tether target without being linked yourself. They also retain the current way to use Ka- spells on players by getting the Soul Linker Spirit buff, but the tether mechanic allows you to do that without needing the link. More details will be released the closer it gets to the rework.
Expanded classes will also get a rebirth class just like the main classes. Kagerou/Oboro, Rebel, Hyper Novice, Soul Ascetic, and Sky Emperor will be their trans classes (rebalanced to be around the same power level as current trans classes).
If you want pre-renewal mechanics and rebalanced renewal content going forward, it's still a fun place to play. :)
+ for the above /\! The only bad feature of this server is the expected delay of the updates, but they always come eventually satisfying most players expectations. There is an insane amount of content and its hard to get bored before playing 1k hours.
Another plus for the server is that it is one of the few current servers that survived the last gravity warnings, it is also close to being 2 years online. I know this is not a good sign for some people that like to be competitive but this means the server has stability and wont go down with the smallest of breezes like some others.
Who am I kidding thought, I just need more people to farm silvervines and buy all my worthless s***
Welcome to alfheim!
Quote from: amoryblaine on Dec 20, 2023, 05:39 PM+ for the above /\! The only bad feature of this server is the expected delay of the updates, but they always come eventually satisfying most players expectations. There is an insane amount of content and its hard to get bored before playing 1k hours.
Another plus for the server is that it is one of the few current servers that survived the last gravity warnings, it is also close to being 2 years online. I know this is not a good sign for some people that like to be competitive but this means the server has stability and wont go down with the smallest of breezes like some others.
Who am I kidding thought, I just need more people to farm silvervines and buy all my worthless s***
Welcome to alfheim!
I'm not understanding something. The topic states the server has returned (meaning going offline?) so this assumes it went down for a time, quite possibly due to the warning. This tells me they're easily feared into shutting down, much like Talon tales (talonro).
When the legal action against novaRO started gaining ground a bunch of servers closed because they were afraid. That was around April or may? Im not sure. At that point alfheim was at its peak with 2k+ players online not counting the 1k merchants. While other servers closed, charlie went into hiding mode, without website and private discord. That + the delay on OGH made us bleed players until we had 200-300 active players starting july. The same players that are playing today.
That is why they said "Alfheim is back"!, it was always online and we were always playing, but it was in hiding mode until charlie felt he was safe from gravity ( For starters he never registered his server as a company, lol).
Hope that answers your question!
Besides, we know a lot of servers closed in the same methodology, some came back, others perished.
The biggest issue I have with Alfheim is how manipulated the market and server feels as a whole by a select few. The head GM actively has 2 major RMTers (most notably the one who created the Reddit post doxxing Tr0ll) on the play test team. Being in different friend circles and learning about all these different players and watching them move in large troves across servers because Alfheim profits died should be relatively obvious for anybody paying attention. I am not entirely convinced there isn't more going on behind the scenes.
Another major issue is the micro management of the game. It's league of legends level of awful balancing and knee jerk reactions to content. He balances the game around the hardcore RMTers grinding for 10+ hours a day and leaves the casual player base f*** in major regards. All the normal zeny farming spots everybody knows are mediocre for the time investment, which forces you into high end dungeon party play. But be careful! Gearing for a specific dungeon, he may just off and decide that he doesn't like it and add random s*** to mobs to alienate classes. My advice to anybody joining is just make a slave character you don't care about to make money running dungeons so you can eventually play the game the way you want.
Yes Charlie, I created an account just to post this because in my 20 years of RO, I've never felt the obligation to talk about how piss poor a server has been run.
Until the next server!
Quote from: mokunak on Dec 23, 2023, 05:33 PMThe biggest issue I have with Alfheim is how manipulated the market and server feels as a whole by a select few. The head GM actively has 2 major RMTers (most notably the one who created the Reddit post doxxing Tr0ll) on the play test team. Being in different friend circles and learning about all these different players and watching them move in large troves across servers because Alfheim profits died should be relatively obvious for anybody paying attention. I am not entirely convinced there isn't more going on behind the scenes.
Another major issue is the micro management of the game. It's league of legends level of awful balancing and knee jerk reactions to content. He balances the game around the hardcore RMTers grinding for 10+ hours a day and leaves the casual player base f*** in major regards. All the normal zeny farming spots everybody knows are mediocre for the time investment, which forces you into high end dungeon party play. But be careful! Gearing for a specific dungeon, he may just off and decide that he doesn't like it and add random s*** to mobs to alienate classes. My advice to anybody joining is just make a slave character you don't care about to make money running dungeons so you can eventually play the game the way you want.
Yes Charlie, I created an account just to post this because in my 20 years of RO, I've never felt the obligation to talk about how piss poor a server has been run.
Until the next server!
see you on the next server! typical RMS rant and baseless accusations! wheeeeee.
Quote from: charlielovesu on Dec 23, 2023, 08:46 PMsee you on the next server! typical RMS rant and baseless accusations! wheeeeee.
Oh no, I got the discord chats to prove it. It's unlikely you'd care anyways, per usual. It's almost like every time people post something negative, you just deflect it like everything is baseless. You made your money, it's the bare minimum now. You served your purpose to them.
Quote from: mokunak on Dec 23, 2023, 09:55 PMOh no, I got the discord chats to prove it. It's unlikely you'd care anyways, per usual. It's almost like every time people post something negative, you just deflect it like everything is baseless. You made your money, it's the bare minimum now. You served your purpose to them.
As if I do this for money lmao. Legit 95% of the money made just goes into funding the server itself and paying Ken. You're delusional if you think I get anything substantial out of this.
If you ACTUALLY have proof of someone you think is RMTing or breaking any other rule for that matter just make a ticket in the discord like we've always said to do. This applies to anyone.
Quote from: mokunak on Dec 23, 2023, 05:33 PMThe biggest issue I have with Alfheim is how manipulated the market and server feels as a whole by a select few. The head GM actively has 2 major RMTers (most notably the one who created the Reddit post doxxing Tr0ll) on the play test team. Being in different friend circles and learning about all these different players and watching them move in large troves across servers because Alfheim profits died should be relatively obvious for anybody paying attention. I am not entirely convinced there isn't more going on behind the scenes.
Name them.
I don't use the market on alfheim because I know what I'd be bidding against (10m is a lot of zeny for me due to lack of time)
I don't think anything is happening behind the scenes other than a lack of info regarding this RMT scene. It's like everyone "knows" but there's never names attached.
I wanna know who to avoid because the situation is crap. And I am sure there are lots of players who would rather avoid them too.
Logged in and the server looks barren. It never capitalized the boom last year.
I play often and the server looks fine. All of your posts make it seem like you've got a vendetta against the server, and maybe even pservers as a whole. I think it's just time you move on, lol.
I wrote honest review about PA. Pros and cons. But Charlie only react cons and wrote "go find another server" lol
This is one of reason why this server lost 2k population. Better holding in-game events rather than provoking on rms.
If you finding middle-customized low-rates server regardless of population, this server isn't bad. If you care population, go UARO. Best low-rates server today.
The dude can't handle criticism. Once you point out obvious flaws he recoils and default to long long form announcements playing harassment victim. Standard cry-bully tactic.
Quote from: SagitariuS1 on Jan 02, 2024, 09:44 AMI wrote honest review about PA. Pros and cons. But Charlie only react cons and wrote "go find another server" lol
This is one of reason why this server lost 2k population. Better holding in-game events rather than provoking on rms.
If you finding middle-customized low-rates server regardless of population, this server isn't bad. If you care population, go UARO. Best low-rates server today.
There are only two replies with a response like that.
The older one is not worth at all to even reply and the one from 2 months ago critizes a feature in a manner where i ask myself what on earth you expected from that post.
For warper design it creates a unique problem where you have it unlocked but only a particular class and the party is asking for different one. Seeing it this way lets it looks like half baked. Half baked like server rule execution (looking at you, afk castle crowd). But calling it the worst feature ever? RMT is openly advertised on other servers and this is worst? Eh? Reality check please.
And then suggesting another server that a) blocks multi clients, which freedom is basicly a key selling point for PA these days since the majority of LR just copypastes the 1 client policy trash without even thinking when and why it makes sense b) prohibits grf mods c) has an even lower refined woe scene, sets the cherry ontop. Im not even sure if you have played the server if you compare both with each other and think they are equally for a quick transition, lol.
I think Alfheim is a pretty cool server, remembering back when I used to play it, it was pretty stable and had lots of things for you to do, even though I think 3x is painfully slow, playing with friends and some of the people I met in there made for some pretty fun memories, the only real gripe I have with the server is just how stat and skill resets work, as I am the kind of person to change builds as often as I change my clothes and play with classes I haven't played before completely blind, so that's very crippling to me but it's not something that's ever going to change so whatever.
Still people should give it a shot and see how they like it, given how it's still here after gravity's tantrum and not have running with it's tail between the legs at the first sight of trouble (Unlike most servers) has some good merit to it.
Quote from: iixe on Jan 03, 2024, 05:29 PMAnd then suggesting another server that a) blocks multi clients, which freedom is basicly a key selling point for PA these days since the majority of LR just copypastes the 1 client policy trash without even thinking when and why it makes sense b) prohibits grf mods c) has an even lower refined woe scene, sets the cherry ontop. Im not even sure if you have played the server if you compare both with each other and think they are equally for a quick transition, lol.
I understand it's nonsense that comparing A&B under inequality conditions. Pre-re, 99, low-rates server and renew, 255, 3rd job server are completely different. But in fact pre-re, 99, low-rates vanilla and middle-customized are not big different, IMO. If basic conditions are same, what people really care and importance is population when choosing server that why I wrote 1.4k without dual UARO. Oh btw I neither hater of PA nor salesman of UARO.
What I hate about multi clienting is less about inflating the population numbers and more that you're basically playing an MMO to just play by yourself, it really doesn't make sense, I'm not crapping on solo players because there is content in the game that doesn't really make much sense to make a party for even though it's nice to play with the company of someone else, it's also kind of annoying that some guides will basically boil down "ok so you're first going to make 3-4 separate accounts and on each you'll make a priest/sage/soul linker AND THEN you'll make the [class of choice] on your main account" if it doesn't straight up tell me to leech all of my characters with the slave priest.
While I despise that, I think it's still interesting that PA is kind of seeking a middle ground, it allows for multi clienting but actively discourages it in a way that doesn't really punish players, a good example of that is inn buffs, usually when people make these slaves is to farm at the low floors of a dungeon, you could aways go back to the inn and refresh the buffs for another 30 minutes and just go back to farming, so this already discourages you from making a priest slave, this doesn't affect the usefulness of actively playing priests either, since you'll still be needing one for deeper or harder dungeons.
You could always buy element enchant scrolls to cover for sage needs, they're quite cheap too imo, usually go for 10k, for 20 minutes that's a pretty good deal even if you make only 1-2m an hour. the only disadvantage of this is when there isn't anybody selling them which isn't that big of a deal for me.
Partying with other people gives you more exp, you don't have any exp bonus for multi clienting I think but I'm not too sure how it works.
So to me multi clienting in PA is a huge waste of time, while I'd rather have it banned, it's nice that players at least have a choice in the matter, people that have grown used to this sort of thing can still do their thing.
OP here. I posted this over the summer when Alfheim came back from "hibernation" following the gravity litigation vs. NovaRO. I hoped that once the server started advertising again we'd see an influx of players, unfortunately this hasn't happened.
What's great about Alfheim:
- Quality of Life: MVP instances, individual loot for party maps and the "Tap" exp mechanic encourage party play. I've played the server for a year now and almost never play solo. However, if you do like to play solo it's very easy due to moderately fast leveling and multi-clienting.
- Random Options / Build Customization: Every gear dropped by a monster has random options applied (ex. +12 ATK; 10% physical dmg to medium, +1 DEX, etc.) this adds a ton of replayability and build customizations. You will spend time farming mobs to get that oh so perfect roll to fit your super unique build. GM does a decent job adding new armor, cards with content that increase the level of customizations.
A few issues:
- The pace of development in incredibly slow, I can't speak to the level of effort required to create RO custom content but the Old Glast Heim roadmap became a meme ("release in Two Weeks") and the server bled population while players waited for it. From what I understand there is one main developer and sorry: it's just not enough to execute on the proposed roadmap and it's caused players to lose faith in the project.
- When long-awaited OGH content was finally dropped, it turned out to be the wrong "product" for the "market". Its fumn for sure, but it's 100% endgame and was more difficult than most players wanted (Personally, I loved it). In retrospect delivering on Expanded Rework probably would've been the better choice to increase the level of player engagement.
- Nerfs. WIP Patch Notes were published on the wiki showing massive EXP nerfs to custom late-game dungeons, a large part of the economy and player experience resolves around this dungeon and while the EXP nerfs were the right idea they came incredibly late (billions of z and thousands of players hours already invested) and without a corresponding "buff" to any other content to make players feel like they had an alternate.
- WoE. WoE here is very competitive, but only if you get lucky and have the 3-4 major guilds participating on the same day, with similar strength. There's so much drama between these guilds and it appears they no longer want to play with each other. Like it or not there is a perception of favoritism due to half assed rule changes and slow response from the GM to implement suggestions from experienced WoE players. GM recently started streaming Saturday WoE:SE which is cool.
Overall, it's a great server, running for two years now so you know the team has done something right; but its definitely in a winter period as player frustration and boredom has reached a tipping point.
My suggestion to the GM:
- Get more development resources.
- Re-engage with the community, the #doom-posting channel is a sign of a GM who stopped caring.
Quote from: bigx on Feb 05, 2024, 01:45 PMOP here. I posted this over the summer when Alfheim came back from "hibernation" following the gravity litigation vs. NovaRO. I hoped that once the server started advertising again we'd see an influx of players, unfortunately this hasn't happened.
What's great about Alfheim:
- Quality of Life: MVP instances, individual loot for party maps and the "Tap" exp mechanic encourage party play. I've played the server for a year now and almost never play solo. However, if you do like to play solo it's very easy due to moderately fast leveling and multi-clienting.
- Random Options / Build Customization: Every gear dropped by a monster has random options applied (ex. +12 ATK; 10% physical dmg to medium, +1 DEX, etc.) this adds a ton of replayability and build customizations. You will spend time farming mobs to get that oh so perfect roll to fit your super unique build. GM does a decent job adding new armor, cards with content that increase the level of customizations.
A few issues:
- The pace of development in incredibly slow, I can't speak to the level of effort required to create RO custom content but the Old Glast Heim roadmap became a meme ("release in Two Weeks") and the server bled population while players waited for it. From what I understand there is one main developer and sorry: it's just not enough to execute on the proposed roadmap and it's caused players to lose faith in the project.
- When long-awaited OGH content was finally dropped, it turned out to be the wrong "product" for the "market". Its fumn for sure, but it's 100% endgame and was more difficult than most players wanted (Personally, I loved it). In retrospect delivering on Expanded Rework probably would've been the better choice to increase the level of player engagement.
- Nerfs. WIP Patch Notes were published on the wiki showing massive EXP nerfs to custom late-game dungeons, a large part of the economy and player experience resolves around this dungeon and while the EXP nerfs were the right idea they came incredibly late (billions of z and thousands of players hours already invested) and without a corresponding "buff" to any other content to make players feel like they had an alternate.
- WoE. WoE here is very competitive, but only if you get lucky and have the 3-4 major guilds participating on the same day, with similar strength. There's so much drama between these guilds and it appears they no longer want to play with each other. Like it or not there is a perception of favoritism due to half assed rule changes and slow response from the GM to implement suggestions from experienced WoE players. GM recently started streaming Saturday WoE:SE which is cool.
Overall, it's a great server, running for two years now so you know the team has done something right; but its definitely in a winter period as player frustration and boredom has reached a tipping point.
My suggestion to the GM:
- Get more development resources.
- Re-engage with the community, the #doom-posting channel is a sign of a GM who stopped caring.
I rarely respond to posts like this, but I have to laugh when someone says development time is extremely slow. Old Glast Heim created a s*** ton of custom maps, with custom textures, we had custom sprites created, custom card art, and all of it was implemented by hand by two people. I wanted to do something special and grandiose and it took a lot of time. A lot more than I even anticipated.
My main fault here is setting unrealistic expectations. I will more than admit that I gave people bad expectations but thats mostly due to my sheer inexperiene. Most content I have created can be done in a few months. OGH was of a scope I did not realize would be as time consuming as it was. You really don't realize how many small moving parts and how s*** and outdated the client side work is on this game until you start creating truly custom stuff.
Get more people? With what money? Do you want to pay people? How much money do you think RO servers make? Spoilers its barely enough to feed yourself after you pay server fees, and thats if you don't have housing costs like myself. I'm one of the more fortunate server owners who is in a good situation where I can afford to do this. Going to be fully transparent on that one.
The only time we could afford more help, back when we had the playerbase to do so, 3400 or so unique, we did so. we had hired extra staff. Unfortunately due to haters we got a lot of activity that led me to believe we may be under focus from gravity. I actually at that time planned to go all out turning Alfheim into a professional business, but we had to go into hiding thanks to haters.
And yeah, in hindsight I wish I could have not hid the server again, but at the time I felt like I had no other choice. Anytime you get popular, you will get haters who will try to do anything and everything to burn the server down on their way out and hold the threat of gravity over your head. By now, I've learned to ignore this but a population is hard to get to return.
As for everything else, you blame me for not listening to experienced woe players, which is suggesting literal bias. I should do what I feel personally is best for the server plain and simple. and I always have. For or better or worse, you may not like my decisions which is fair, but to suggest I should be biased is gross. And despite what others would say I am not a pawn of anyone or any players in particular. I try to design the server based on a combination of what I think is fun, and player feedback. WOE Players, in my experience just cry for changes that benefit them and their guild rather than what is healthy for the server. As for the drama, there isn't much we can do about that. We've been bannig people harassing other people, we've told people to stop posting drama in discord and I've muted people in game for causing drama in game. If people don't like each other and don't want to play because of it, that is not my fault. There's only so much we can do.
And full transparency here, people like to pretend I don't care about the server when there's been so much negativity and toxicity that I've had to step away from my own discord just to get things done because to be blunt you guys have unrealistic expectations of what we can do with the budget that we have.
And to be clear, I understand why. I do not expect players to understand how time consuming dev work can be. Or how challenging it is to adjust the server balance in a way that will be fun while also not breaking it. Things are hard, and I've been far from perfect. Many of our changes have been had good changes but bring some negative with it so we're forced to adjust, but adjusting takes time and players for better or worse may lose patience in that time.
I don't blame players, I don't know what else I could really do though besides keep being dedicated to my project the way that I am. No, we're not perfect. I've made plenty of wrong decisions with Alfheim, but hindsight is always 20/20. All I can do is keep trying to make the server as fun as it can be.
And for what its worth to anyone out there who may read this I do still care about the server very deeply. I've legitimately worked on it all day today alone just responding to suggestions from players and questions. There's a video in our discord for anyone who wants to see that I do still indeed care.
The doom posting channel is there so negativity can be dumped into one channel rather than throughout the whole discord where it was dampering the mood of all the players who just want to play in peace without being told the server is dying left and right when it isn't. It's not going anywhere and I will continue to work as hard and care as much as I do regardless of criticism and regardless of population.
Much respect to you sir. Hope u keep up the good work. Someday I shall return.
Quote from: charlielovesu on Feb 07, 2024, 04:45 AMI rarely respond to posts like this, but I have to laugh when someone says development time is extremely slow. Old Glast Heim created a s*** ton of custom maps, with custom textures, we had custom sprites created, custom card art, and all of it was implemented by hand by two people. I wanted to do something special and grandiose and it took a lot of time. A lot more than I even anticipated.
My main fault here is setting unrealistic expectations. I will more than admit that I gave people bad expectations but thats mostly due to my sheer inexperiene. Most content I have created can be done in a few months. OGH was of a scope I did not realize would be as time consuming as it was. You really don't realize how many small moving parts and how s*** and outdated the client side work is on this game until you start creating truly custom stuff.
Get more people? With what money? Do you want to pay people? How much money do you think RO servers make? Spoilers its barely enough to feed yourself after you pay server fees, and thats if you don't have housing costs like myself. I'm one of the more fortunate server owners who is in a good situation where I can afford to do this. Going to be fully transparent on that one.
The only time we could afford more help, back when we had the playerbase to do so, 3400 or so unique, we did so. we had hired extra staff. Unfortunately due to haters we got a lot of activity that led me to believe we may be under focus from gravity. I actually at that time planned to go all out turning Alfheim into a professional business, but we had to go into hiding thanks to haters.
And yeah, in hindsight I wish I could have not hid the server again, but at the time I felt like I had no other choice. Anytime you get popular, you will get haters who will try to do anything and everything to burn the server down on their way out and hold the threat of gravity over your head. By now, I've learned to ignore this but a population is hard to get to return.
As for everything else, you blame me for not listening to experienced woe players, which is suggesting literal bias. I should do what I feel personally is best for the server plain and simple. and I always have. For or better or worse, you may not like my decisions which is fair, but to suggest I should be biased is gross. And despite what others would say I am not a pawn of anyone or any players in particular. I try to design the server based on a combination of what I think is fun, and player feedback. WOE Players, in my experience just cry for changes that benefit them and their guild rather than what is healthy for the server. As for the drama, there isn't much we can do about that. We've been bannig people harassing other people, we've told people to stop posting drama in discord and I've muted people in game for causing drama in game. If people don't like each other and don't want to play because of it, that is not my fault. There's only so much we can do.
And full transparency here, people like to pretend I don't care about the server when there's been so much negativity and toxicity that I've had to step away from my own discord just to get things done because to be blunt you guys have unrealistic expectations of what we can do with the budget that we have.
And to be clear, I understand why. I do not expect players to understand how time consuming dev work can be. Or how challenging it is to adjust the server balance in a way that will be fun while also not breaking it. Things are hard, and I've been far from perfect. Many of our changes have been had good changes but bring some negative with it so we're forced to adjust, but adjusting takes time and players for better or worse may lose patience in that time.
I don't blame players, I don't know what else I could really do though besides keep being dedicated to my project the way that I am. No, we're not perfect. I've made plenty of wrong decisions with Alfheim, but hindsight is always 20/20. All I can do is keep trying to make the server as fun as it can be.
And for what its worth to anyone out there who may read this I do still care about the server very deeply. I've legitimately worked on it all day today alone just responding to suggestions from players and questions. There's a video in our discord for anyone who wants to see that I do still indeed care.
The doom posting channel is there so negativity can be dumped into one channel rather than throughout the whole discord where it was dampering the mood of all the players who just want to play in peace without being told the server is dying left and right when it isn't. It's not going anywhere and I will continue to work as hard and care as much as I do regardless of criticism and regardless of population.
Charlie, first of all, I'm not your hater. I enjoyed good time on PA and grateful for it. Second, this world only need good result, reasons.com changes nothing. Third, you should't "laugh" for good review especially neutral one. This attitude is one of the reason why 3400 people left.
"Third, you should't "laugh" for good review especially neutral one."
He laughs about how the normies think devs, programmers or anything related to technology is just to press a friking button and then it is solved.
What?! I thought everything existed on Google and you can just copy/paste every npc from rA,herc forums and fix it with StackOverflow searches!
I would love to see people have their own servers, script just ONE functional NPC, and see their comments afterwards.
(I have my own server that I made my own maps/npcs on and although not complex, it's somewhat tedious and takes time, with a basis of coding elsewhere I have a healthy respect for what Charlie and his team do! Also making custom mobs is super frustrating.)
Servers with bigger teams are much, much slower, not naming any servers that have been on hiatus for two+ years now but...
Quote from: Ijustwanttoreviewservers on Jan 15, 2024, 02:08 AMWhat I hate about multi clienting is less about inflating the population numbers and more that you're basically playing an MMO to just play by yourself, it really doesn't make sense, I'm not crapping on solo players because there is content in the game that doesn't really make much sense to make a party for even though it's nice to play with the company of someone else, it's also kind of annoying that some guides will basically boil down "ok so you're first going to make 3-4 separate accounts and on each you'll make a priest/sage/soul linker AND THEN you'll make the [class of choice] on your main account" if it doesn't straight up tell me to leech all of my characters with the slave priest.
While I despise that, I think it's still interesting that PA is kind of seeking a middle ground, it allows for multi clienting but actively discourages it in a way that doesn't really punish players, a good example of that is inn buffs, usually when people make these slaves is to farm at the low floors of a dungeon, you could aways go back to the inn and refresh the buffs for another 30 minutes and just go back to farming, so this already discourages you from making a priest slave, this doesn't affect the usefulness of actively playing priests either, since you'll still be needing one for deeper or harder dungeons.
You could always buy element enchant scrolls to cover for sage needs, they're quite cheap too imo, usually go for 10k, for 20 minutes that's a pretty good deal even if you make only 1-2m an hour. the only disadvantage of this is when there isn't anybody selling them which isn't that big of a deal for me.
Partying with other people gives you more exp, you don't have any exp bonus for multi clienting I think but I'm not too sure how it works.
So to me multi clienting in PA is a huge waste of time, while I'd rather have it banned, it's nice that players at least have a choice in the matter, people that have grown used to this sort of thing can still do their thing.
The issue is that an admin who cares about player experience cannot ban multi clienting without overhauling the entire game to compensate. Playing without Agi/Bless is a miserable experience, and the further you explore maps of later episodes, the worse it gets, as monster balancing apparently assumes that there's always a HP around, i.e. fast movespeed (hard to outrun without agi), high flee/hit, absurd atk/matk and powerful skills; eventually this evolved into the assumption that medium to large groups are required and certain classes are not allowed to partake. By the way, I find it ironic that most pre-re servers which prohibited multi clienting had just classic content, and those which got up to Nidd or further episodes (but still pre-re) generally had no idea what they were doing.
Of course this is not a problem: this is an MMO, after all; but all these were made with kRO in mind (and I suppose nothing but), where I'm sure HPs and SLs weren't hard to find back then, with players abound by the thousands. Here? Whether you're in a private server which is at best kind of big, with a couple hundred concurrent players, and at worst a dead corner, it basically comes down to the same condition: assuming you're actually playing the game instead of being a Prontera tile warmer, if you can't multi client, you better have some friends, or you're s*** out of luck. Farming Incarnations and Thor Volcano would be lengthy and costly, for instance, and some builds quite simply would not exist without a SL to allow it. Without multi clienting, this game ceases to be a game and becomes an ordeal.
Having a buffer NPC like you mentioned alleviates this issue some, but does not fix it.
Just wanted to throw this rant, I'm surprised this thread is still up.
Quote from: charlielovesu on Feb 07, 2024, 04:45 AMAs for everything else, you blame me for not listening to experienced woe players, which is suggesting literal bias. I should do what I feel personally is best for the server plain and simple. and I always have.
So as an example, boosting treasure chests with consumables for our beloved sickpo- excuse me, weekend warriors was your own idea entirely? You came up with a decision that results in less related farm activity from the remaining people up on your own? You did not balance the mat grind further for everyone but for one specific party and call it a decision that is "best for the server"?
The latest changes in the last weeks you made werent even tested anymore by anyone. And dont tell me they were after you have butchered literally any testing instance on the server with your own hands. You just threw these changes out and be like "here, deal with it" and that is what you "personally feel best for the server"?
Dude, who do you even want to clown here?
Who were the sickpot users? And why didn't the admin do anything about it?
Quote from: Xellie on Feb 09, 2024, 12:32 PMWhat?! I thought everything existed on Google and you can just copy/paste every npc from rA,herc forums and fix it with StackOverflow searches!
I would love to see people have their own servers, script just ONE functional NPC, and see their comments afterwards.
(I have my own server that I made my own maps/npcs on and although not complex, it's somewhat tedious and takes time, with a basis of coding elsewhere I have a healthy respect for what Charlie and his team do! Also making custom mobs is super frustrating.)
Servers with bigger teams are much, much slower, not naming any servers that have been on hiatus for two+ years now but...
No one is saying that dev work isn't complicated, I'm an engineer myself and wouldnt dare touch RO code. This is about managing expectations and your development roadmap. The server bled population while waiting for this patch and you know it. I hate to play backseat dev but even releasing content in smaller patches (if possible) would've been better than a 6+ month black hole in content.
Quote from: bigx on Feb 10, 2024, 10:23 AMNo one is saying that dev work isn't complicated, I'm an engineer myself and wouldnt dare touch RO code. This is about managing expectations and your development roadmap. The server bled population while waiting for this patch and you know it. I hate to play backseat dev but even releasing content in smaller patches (if possible) would've been better than a 6+ month black hole in content.
I don't disagree, but in terms of work flow it seems to work better for them. I'd rather have content a bit at a time so I don't burn out on a ton of content at once. But that's a player speaking, not a dev.
Tbh, I'll take updates with actual new content we've never received in pre-re (rebalanced of course) that take a while over the typical pre-re server cycle stuff of starting at a lower episode like 5~9 and then slowly releasing the same content we've already replayed over and over for 16+ years now until ep13 and then they get nothing else.
Are there any servers out there even outputting new pre-re content at the pace you want? Even Gravity doesn't update that often, although they're the ones actually building the content from scratch (usually) to be fair. They still have a whole team of people working on it though. I'm sure a lot of dev time goes to their cash shop and new ways to upgrade in order to drive people to the cash shop. :P
Ep13.2, the last pre-re update was released in Nov 2008.
Ep20, the most current episode, was released Mar 2023.
I can't tell you how boring it is to get that RO urge every year and then find yourself back grinding at wolves, high orcs, sandmen, geffenia, etc again for the umpteenth time. The QoL changes on Alfheim and the rebalanced Renewal content I'll finally get to see are stopping me from just leaving RO behind altogether. RO has never been a game with a lot of side content, so I play other games too (Destiny 2, FFXIV, etc.), but Alfheim is where I play RO and it will be the last private RO server I play on. I'm not falling back into the old pre-re cycle again.
There are better RO servers than this one. The whole "multiclient" thing is just an excuse. Excellent game, terrible management.
This server WAS good but not so much these days and that is a fact.
The multiclienting is not really an issue, but I guess it does cause some misdirection. You do see 100+ online but it feels like only 15 people are active /heh
A simple change in live login counter that considers only unique IPs would help against that. Not that it would matter anyway..
Also not sure why someone brings the multi client topic in here again. It is literally the dumbest point possible and far off from the actual problem the server has. Not everything is solved by forcing certain people to interact with each other. In fact that can be even worsen situations by alot.
Quote from: bigx on Feb 10, 2024, 10:23 AMNo one is saying that dev work isn't complicated, I'm an engineer myself and wouldnt dare touch RO code. This is about managing expectations and your development roadmap. The server bled population while waiting for this patch and you know it. I hate to play backseat dev but even releasing content in smaller patches (if possible) would've been better than a 6+ month black hole in content.
already stated that yes I was bad at setting expectations due to lack of experience. Alfheim is my first foray into game dev in general or anything of this nature. I own that I definitely am/was terrible at judging how long something would take. In my defense though, all content before Old Glast Heim only took me 3 months at most on the high end and that was only because we ran into client issues that we didn't expect right before release. You just don't realize the scope of what you have planned until you start getting into the nitty gritty of the development. I truly had no idea how painfully slow and tedious doing custom sprites/mobs/maps would be until I did it.
Also, people have a weird perception that because a patch may appear large in the patch notes than it could have been "cut down" and "split up" but the reality is the major patches are usually one thing only that is the central focus.
We have two devs, myself and Ken who work on the server. Ken has limited time but does a lot of the heavy lifting on some of the crazier things we implement. While waiting for him to finish his projects I don't sit on my donkey and will often just continue to add to the updates either through quality of life, or more content that doesn't require Ken to work anymore simply because why not? I might as well try to give the players more rather than do nothing.
It's really just a fundamental misunderstanding of how we have to work given that our dev team is only two people. I'm just not sure what people really expect. Gravity's own updates were sometimes years apart between tiny updates that only released one dungeon.
I'll also say that the black hole in content really isn't what killed the player base. That's also a misconception. The problem was that we literally had to hide the server and had no downloads available, were not on RMS, and people didn't even really know we existed outside of word of mouth. That we maintained 1k+ players for as long a we did is remarkable.
The more recent drop is mostly due to a combination of other issues with the server gameplay wise, and drama between guilds in WOE, mostly perpetuated by delusional players who try to distort reality and review bomb us because they hate a particular person. (hi cat)
You're right - I don't know what's involved with running a server. I'm just a player who's consumed your product and is giving feedback to the best of my ability.
Hopefully more folks find the server because it's a ton of fun, just needs to find some spring again.
I just hope the lower population now is temporary, a rebuilding of the community after some of the bad.
I've already seen people coming back, so it's a positive sign.
It really depends on what the community looks like. /lv
Why was nothing done about the cheaters using sickpot?
Ah the classic tactic of: "I'm losing so my opponent must be using cheat tools". No one is out here using sickpot, RO ain't that serious.
Quote from: iixe on Feb 10, 2024, 05:18 AMSo as an example, boosting treasure chests with consumables for our beloved sickpo- excuse me, weekend warriors was your own idea entirely?
It's not just iixe who mentioned cheat tools. More than half of the people who played WoE believe there were sickpot users. I find it strange that so many adults would simply lie just because they lost in a video game.
Here's footage of the last WoE:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N2O_QtO1pD0&ab_channel=VicarsVideos
Sour grapes. /kis2
It must suck to coordinate a 2v1 push with your rival just to fall flat (twice), so I understand how cheat allegations would be a coping mechanism.
Quote from: TuckerCarlson on Feb 13, 2024, 06:51 AMIt really depends on what the community looks like. /lv
Why was nothing done about the cheaters using sickpot?
If you have serious concerns or issues with the server (such as cheating allegations) please try to direct them to discord. RMS is about reviewing servers, not using this thread to answer questions about the server. Only responded to clarify some of the misconceptions going around since I feel a lot of them are harmful to the server.
Quote from: bigx on Feb 13, 2024, 08:49 AMSour grapes. /kis2
It must suck to coordinate a 2v1 push with your rival just to fall flat (twice), so I understand how cheat allegations would be a coping mechanism.
Quote from: TuckerCarlson on Feb 13, 2024, 08:38 AMIt's not just iixe who mentioned cheat tools. More than half of the people who played WoE believe there were sickpot users. I find it strange that so many adults would simply lie just because they lost in a video game.
Here's footage of the last WoE:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N2O_QtO1pD0&ab_channel=VicarsVideos
Here's footage of the last woe from a participant on your side, not a spectator:
https://youtu.be/JrwpHxTnuQM
Pay extra special attention to the MLG pro targeting of speed potting and snapping champs from off-screen, the superb accuracy of finding the prof under a stack invisible, the way the cursor snaps to and from targets in the second half, the amazingly accurate 10% ish HP potting and the clown bypassing weapon switching delays through the whole thing.
The audio says a lot too <3 If your performance was so great, where are your own videos? What are you hiding? Surely such a woe would be something you'd post footage of and be proud of! Did you get banned? What is going on!?
Thank you for the footage and good night.
Nothing against Charlie, by the way, people will slip through the cracks from time to time, but the real problem with the community isn't that tools need tools, it's the behaviour.
Drama is a debate over GTB ownership.
Drama is
not following people around in-game and in discord, spreading lies and rumours, insulting them, etc. That's harassment and bullying and bless that Charlie and his team are cracking down.
Notice who disappeared! Not the people or guilds being targeted, but the ones involved with the review bombing and even the crappy comments here. It's funny to go around Twitch and YouTube and RMS and Discord saying one guild destroyed the server when they're not the ones trying to destroy the server!
Charlie will probably yell at me for saying this, but good riddance to bad eggs. The server is nicer without all this bull happening and it'll continue to get nicer.
I'll write a proper review later, I have my beefs with Alfheim (many of them!), but it ain't this.
Quote from: Xellie on Feb 13, 2024, 06:39 PMHere's footage of last woe
https://youtu.be/JrwpHxTnuQM
Pay extra special attention to the MLG pro targeting of speed potting and snapping champs from off-screen, the superb accuracy of finding the prof under a stack invisible, the way the cursor snaps to and from targets in the second half, the amazingly accurate 10% ish HP potting and the clown bypassing weapon switching delays through the whole thing.
The audio says a lot too <3
Thank you for the footage and good night.
Nothing against Charlie, by the way, people will slip through the cracks from time to time, but the real problem with the community isn't that tools need tools, it's the behaviour.
Drama is a debate over GTB ownership.
Drama is not following people around in-game and in discord, spreading lies and rumours, insulting them, etc. That's harassment and bullying and bless that Charlie and his team are cracking down.
Notice who disappeared! Not the people or guilds being targeted, but the ones involved with the review bombing and even the crappy comments here. It's funny to go around Twitch and YouTube and RMS and Discord saying one guild destroyed the server when they're not the ones trying to destroy the server!
Charlie will probably yell at me for saying this, but good riddance to bad eggs. The server is nicer without all this bull happening and it'll continue to get nicer.
I'll write a proper review later, I have my beefs with Alfheim (many of them!), but it ain't this.
nigga is this what being 40 years old and not working a day of a 9-5 job does to a mf
fwiw guilds who left PA including Nitro who also accused them of cheating left cause it's boring as s*** nowadays. Get off ya high horse as if you and your guild were the true saviors of PA or something, there's nothing to do in this server for now. There's not enough people to run OGH aside from Serenity, there's literal nothing and it's not cause charlie told us to leave, it's simply cause we decided to leave
Quote from: Xellie on Feb 13, 2024, 06:39 PMHere's footage of the last woe from a participant on your side, not a spectator:
https://youtu.be/JrwpHxTnuQM
Pay extra special attention to the MLG pro targeting of speed potting and snapping champs from off-screen, the superb accuracy of finding the prof under a stack invisible, the way the cursor snaps to and from targets in the second half, the amazingly accurate 10% ish HP potting and the clown bypassing weapon switching delays through the whole thing.
The audio says a lot too <3 If your performance was so great, where are your own videos? What are you hiding? Surely such a woe would be something you'd post footage of and be proud of! Did you get banned? What is going on!?
Thank you for the footage and good night.
Nothing against Charlie, by the way, people will slip through the cracks from time to time, but the real problem with the community isn't that tools need tools, it's the behaviour.
Drama is a debate over GTB ownership.
Drama is not following people around in-game and in discord, spreading lies and rumours, insulting them, etc. That's harassment and bullying and bless that Charlie and his team are cracking down.
Notice who disappeared! Not the people or guilds being targeted, but the ones involved with the review bombing and even the crappy comments here. It's funny to go around Twitch and YouTube and RMS and Discord saying one guild destroyed the server when they're not the ones trying to destroy the server!
Charlie will probably yell at me for saying this, but good riddance to bad eggs. The server is nicer without all this bull happening and it'll continue to get nicer.
I'll write a proper review later, I have my beefs with Alfheim (many of them!), but it ain't this.
Are you available for harvest season? I have more cherries for you to pick.
Please come back when you have some hard evidence, these baseless allegations are unbecoming of a 20 year WoE veteran.
Regarding our own videos, our DD wizard dropped a video immediately after WoE. Please feel free to review.
Quote from: wowzers on Feb 13, 2024, 06:54 PMnigga is this what being 40 years old and not working a day of a 9-5 job does to a mf
fwiw guilds who left PA including Nitro who also accused them of cheating left cause it's boring as s*** nowadays. Get off ya high horse as if you and your guild were the true saviors of PA or something, there's nothing to do in this server for now. There's not enough people to run OGH aside from Serenity, there's literal nothing and it's not cause charlie told us to leave, it's simply cause we decided to leave
Nothing to do with telling everyone to leave and posting lies all over RMS and driving people away then? Of course you're bored.
But just because you are bored, doesn't mean the server is dead. Bye bye!
Quote from: Xellie on Feb 13, 2024, 06:39 PMHere's footage of the last woe from a participant on your side, not a spectator:
https://youtu.be/JrwpHxTnuQM
Pay extra special attention to the MLG pro targeting of speed potting and snapping champs from off-screen, the superb accuracy of finding the prof under a stack invisible, the way the cursor snaps to and from targets in the second half, the amazingly accurate 10% ish HP potting and the clown bypassing weapon switching delays through the whole thing.
The audio says a lot too <3 If your performance was so great, where are your own videos? What are you hiding? Surely such a woe would be something you'd post footage of and be proud of! Did you get banned? What is going on!?
Thank you for the footage and good night.
Nothing against Charlie, by the way, people will slip through the cracks from time to time, but the real problem with the community isn't that tools need tools, it's the behaviour.
Drama is a debate over GTB ownership.
Drama is not following people around in-game and in discord, spreading lies and rumours, insulting them, etc. That's harassment and bullying and bless that Charlie and his team are cracking down.
Notice who disappeared! Not the people or guilds being targeted, but the ones involved with the review bombing and even the crappy comments here. It's funny to go around Twitch and YouTube and RMS and Discord saying one guild destroyed the server when they're not the ones trying to destroy the server!
Charlie will probably yell at me for saying this, but good riddance to bad eggs. The server is nicer without all this bull happening and it'll continue to get nicer.
I'll write a proper review later, I have my beefs with Alfheim (many of them!), but it ain't this.
You can enable Skill Snap in game options. So your mouse snaps to the target even in WoE
As for potting - you are just delusional
p.s. you are such a bad and toxic player I hope to never see you or your guild again
I'm alright with you feeling that way. 8)
Anyway, actually on topic, proper Alfheim review good and bad? I'd been thinking about it for a long time.
The good
- Server isn't stuck in the same content that most pre-re servers are.
- Customized dungeons are fun
- Renewal -> pre-renewal conversions are always great
- There's so much to do compared to the average pre-re server.
- QOL like item captor and warp points should be on every server
- Supply farming is pretty streamlined and brewing too
- 30 min inn buffs reduce the need for dual logging (as do buffed convertor durations etc)
- Partying is valuable
- I like costumes!
- No real p2w methods
- MVP instances without card drops enable everyone to get MVP loot. (except my hilarious bad luck with nyd?)
The bad
- Options and some gear lead to some wild powercreep. Well not creep, jumps. But it's fun in its own way if you can do the same back. That means "standard" woe/pvp metas are different. I guess good or bad in this regard is subjective
- BG modes suck.
- There's no vanilla pvp room where you can use everything you want.
- Leech for loot broke the need for newer players to be involved in parties and gain zeny. It's being fixed but the economy took a hit.
- Population kinda low, but there are still parties most times of day.
The Ugly
- The website looks like a teenage girl's bedroom. (sorry not sorry charlie)
Quote from: Xellie on Feb 13, 2024, 07:24 PMNothing to do with telling everyone to leave and posting lies all over RMS and driving people away then? Of course you're bored.
But just because you are bored, doesn't mean the server is dead. Bye bye!
you clearly have no idea who you are responding to, says a lot about who's living rent free in your head
Never played Altheim never will but this thread is epic. This is how you can tell the woe is good.
WoE last year was mediocre on most days. Sadly the sunday FE fights turned out more fun then SE.
Admin attempted to change SE into something more serious with cap and stuff but ended up half baked like so many things he touched including not having basics like a whitelist, sandwhich/interfere rules and punishments for the rats that were too incapable to join or form a guild for woe and strayed around.
Despite Loco, this 24bpm wannabe and others raise their voice here for a moment its mostly dead nonetheless.
Quote from: Usagimimi on Jul 25, 2023, 07:01 AMSocial component is still there. People whine about a so-called "dead server" when P-Alf is hundreds strong at any given time of day and there are always parties recruiting to go to Odin, Niff, Byalan, etc. Episode 13 was implemented last week, too. I would suggest giving it a shot yourself or at least inquiring on the Discord, which is also very active with both players and staff.
It is dead. I already have like 4-6 characters. The social component is just dead and has no remedy. I moved to other servers, and the change of pace is amazing. The best part of RO is the journey to 99, not reaching it, and Alfheim is not it. Good riddance to all the haters and good luck to those trying to keep the server running!
Quote from: iixe on Feb 14, 2024, 06:22 PMWoE last year was mediocre on most days. Sadly the sunday FE fights turned out more fun then SE.
Admin attempted to change SE into something more serious with cap and stuff but ended up half baked like so many things he touched including not having basics like a whitelist, sandwhich/interfere rules and punishments for the rats that were too incapable to join or form a guild for woe and strayed around.
Despite Loco, this 24bpm wannabe and others raise their voice here for a moment its mostly dead nonetheless.
I don't know who you are, but I'm happy that I live rent free in your head. /no1
Quote from: Lunalepsy on Feb 11, 2024, 06:46 AMThere are better RO servers than this one. The whole "multiclient" thing is just an excuse. Excellent game, terrible management.
Probably the most accurate statement in response to this server.
RO players are so negative lol.
Quote from: Blinzer on Mar 19, 2024, 11:39 AMRO players are so negative lol.
regardless of what you think, that community is dead, and was dead when I joined, which was likely more than a year ago now. When I tried to warn them about their issues, they just defended their way of thinking. Of course, this was only 4-6 people on discord who didn't represent a shread of what the majority of the server thinks. It was just a lost cause.
Here's a better idea though. Instead of sitting here talking about it, why don't you just let it be and devote your attention to something you think is worthy? There is no point in putting it down just for the sake of talking about it. I don't feel helped in any way by what you're explaining, and I'm sure that is the case for many.
You could be using that exact same word space in describing a solution to the problem you're presenting, but instead you're just talking about how much it's a problem.
Quote from: Felione on Mar 19, 2024, 12:49 PMregardless of what you think, that community is dead, and was dead when I joined, which was likely more than a year ago now. When I tried to warn them about their issues, they just defended their way of thinking. Of course, this was only 4-6 people on discord who didn't represent a shread of what the majority of the server thinks. It was just a lost cause.
if 100 people say the server is dead why don't they talk to and play alongside each other?
Quote from: Blinzer on Mar 19, 2024, 01:59 PMHere's a better idea though. Instead of sitting here talking about it, why don't you just let it be and devote your attention to something you think is worthy? There is no point in putting it down just for the sake of talking about it. I don't feel helped in any way by what you're explaining, and I'm sure that is the case for many.
You could be using that exact same word space in describing a solution to the problem you're presenting, but instead you're just talking about how much it's a problem.
It's true but you have to remember that the majority of people who are in this community are essentially leeches who want a server with a large (non-toxic) community, good content, skillful devs, with no p2w in any shape or form while giving nothing in return. People fail to realize that most private servers are
not for profit and ask the world from people who do it for free while contributing nothing of their own besides a handful of complaints. But this isn't specific to RO, it's just the way of the world. Contribute nothing and complain a lot, surely that'll get you what you want instead of contributing something meaningful.
Quote from: Blinzer on Mar 19, 2024, 01:59 PMHere's a better idea though. Instead of sitting here talking about it, why don't you just let it be and devote your attention to something you think is worthy? There is no point in putting it down just for the sake of talking about it. I don't feel helped in any way by what you're explaining, and I'm sure that is the case for many.
You could be using that exact same word space in describing a solution to the problem you're presenting, but instead you're just talking about how much it's a problem.
You don't require anymore help. You received help pages ago. The discussion devolved into like-minded agreements and mutual experiences. You're welcome for all of the relevant information that looms this server, and I hope you make a decision that suits your taste.
Quote from: ForgotMyOldAccount on Mar 20, 2024, 04:44 PMIt's true but you have to remember that the majority of people who are in this community are essentially leeches who want a server with a large (non-toxic) community, good content, skillful devs, with no p2w in any shape or form while giving nothing in return. People fail to realize that most private servers are not for profit and ask the world from people who do it for free while contributing nothing of their own besides a handful of complaints. But this isn't specific to RO, it's just the way of the world. Contribute nothing and complain a lot, surely that'll get you what you want instead of contributing something meaningful.
I guess all those wonderful reviews and community involvement that feeds towards a healthier playerbase is hearsay. It's also strikingly strange that there are servers with a dedicated 20 players that continue to support financially and socially to attempt to build a community that isn't there. You also seem to have all the answers to what the people in this community want, so perhaps you have something valuable to say regarding this unfortunate incident which happens to be poor management, poor social skills, lack of community understanding and the benefit it has, and most importantly, communication with said community.
Take Return to Morroc for example: He literally hated his community for wanting things changed or asking for exp events. That is not an example of someone who wants to handle a community, but rather, get praise from what little support he can. I have my opinion on why he really closed things up, but I'm almost certain he is not telling us everything, or rather, conveniently skewing it.
Let's compare it to Muhro, which is a server I am slightly fond of, because they turned an opportunity, into a success, and continue that success. If you take a look on their site, observe their patch notes, and you will find VERY little is changed or applied each patch. It looks like, and most likely is, done by ONE person, if two. This already excuses the lack of resources. Secondly, their communication with the players is DAILY, and I mean, sometimes they just won't shut up. Why? because they are PART of the community, they are not the overlords, and they treat everyone equally, including any suck ups, which most recently Muh exhibited. Events are plentiful and actually engage everyone, making it almost pointless to level, when you can just do events all your ro life if that is the choice you decide to make. Their updates involve suggestions and are always within reason, making the experience ENJOYABLE, not something they ENvISION their server should be, but rather, what makes the PLAYERS happy.
It's a shocking comparison, because their resources are that of any other small community, but they manage a MID community, and it keeps growing daily. This is not a coincidence, but more of an understanding of the simple fact that people DO want a non-toxic server, and people DO want stability and accessibility. All of the things you mentioned, Muhro is trying to offer to their community, because they understand it's not just a PERSONAL PROJECT, but a community organized venture to help make it more enjoyable with participation, with choice, with variety, so that everyone has a place. If Muh and his wife can keep what Nova lost for this long, and even make it grow, then I guess simply listening to your majority community is the answer, isn't it? I don't know, it's just an observation. :D
Quote from: Felione on Mar 21, 2024, 11:09 PMYou don't require anymore help. You received help pages ago.
I didn't read what was in pages ago, if I have to be honest with you.
Quote from: Felione on Mar 21, 2024, 11:09 PMTake Return to Morroc for example: He literally hated his community for wanting things changed or asking for exp events. That is not an example of someone who wants to handle a community, but rather, get praise from what little support he can. I have my opinion on why he really closed things up, but I'm almost certain he is not telling us everything, or rather, conveniently skewing it.
Yeahhh, no. Sorry.
Also, you highly underestimate how irresponsible and how much extra work it is to have players whine about every little thing as an admin. It is completely understandable for a human being to get pissed off at someone who doesn't know what they're talking about, even if it's not necessarily the best or most reasonable reaction to have.
Quote from: Felione on Mar 21, 2024, 11:09 PMTake Return to Morroc for example: He literally hated his community for wanting things changed or asking for exp events. That is not an example of someone who wants to handle a community, but rather, get praise from what little support he can. I have my opinion on why he really closed things up, but I'm almost certain he is not telling us everything, or rather, conveniently skewing it.
Ehh, you're mixing your personal opinions on the person in charge with your personal view of the server. These subjects do not always necessarily align, and they're certainly conflicting here; if they weren't, you'd realize the sheer work he put in his project, contrast it with the constant pressure of having to deal with a barrage of complaints, along with dolts who expect you to act like a PR hire, for free or at best for a pittance, every single day, and then surely you'd respect the context he was in. It gets worse when you realize that most of these professional screechers are grown men and women whose mental ages nonetheless seem stuck in time, your patience is bound to shorten when faced with this.
You can't be a nice guy in this environment for long, else you'll eventually get forced down in the food chain. OathRO is an unfortunate, but telling example of this: mired in such a cesspool, even a nice and reasonable man will go bonkers in ways that are unpredictable and rather harming, precisely because he's been overly indulgent. You could argue that he (Orn) exaggerated in his stance, and I wouldn't be one to argue about this only because I wasn't there to see it; but it is hard to attack the way he handled things in itself because it was a defense mechanism that may have been only too necessary, and he did it for free, for Heaven's sake.
I don't know anything about how Orn dealt with people, but I don't mind him taking a more combative stance. That's always been my style, and I think it has plenty of underappreciated merits. It does more good for people than you think.
Quote from: Blinzer on Mar 22, 2024, 12:07 AMI didn't read what was in pages ago, if I have to be honest with you.
Yeahhh, no. Sorry.
Also, you highly underestimate how irresponsible and how much extra work it is to have players whine about every little thing as an admin. It is completely understandable for a human being to get pissed off at someone who doesn't know what they're talking about, even if it's not necessarily the best or most reasonable reaction to have.
So, if it's okay to be pissed off at someone who doesn't know what they're talking about, then it's okay to be angry at an admin who refuses to accept they're wrong and continues communicating their mistakes as a solution? or does the admin hold some sort of seniority over the player, and players having opinions is just counter productive? :D
I know I'm being annoying, but you're defending one end of the spectrum. You just mentioned that people should be more productive, but it's also okay to be pissed off.
As for your post about Orn, his combative stance was his choice to shut down the server and hurt his playerbase because of a few bad actors. This coincides with alfheim, where they muted the server till midgame, once again, because of a few bad actors. There is nothing combative about these two.
Quote from: Metan on Mar 22, 2024, 10:39 AMYou can't be a nice guy in this environment for long, else you'll eventually get forced down in the food chain. OathRO is an unfortunate, but telling example of this: mired in such a cesspool, even a nice and reasonable man will go bonkers in ways that are unpredictable and rather harming, precisely because he's been overly indulgent. You could argue that he (Orn) exaggerated in his stance, and I wouldn't be one to argue about this only because I wasn't there to see it; but it is hard to attack the way he handled things in itself because it was a defense mechanism that may have been only too necessary, and he did it for free, for Heaven's sake.
Orn took everything far too personally, and his problem was his view of HIS project, and those who disagreed with that view, were told to leave. Fortunately, this is a fair choice: Why stay where you're not welcome? or rather, why stay when the boss refuses to listen? Regardless, once those few who disagreed left, he then turned that anger unto his community, just poking at anyone who had an opinion which differed from his. You were not allowed to have an opinion, or you would be ridiculed, because he just couldn't handle an opinion.
You also keep mentioning he did it for "free". I assure you, his bank account would disagree with you.
One more thing, and I know this isn't fair, but I won't respond to any orn things anymore, because the subject is alfheim. I'm sorry if this annoys anyone.
Quote from: Felione on Mar 22, 2024, 12:35 PMthen it's okay to be angry at an admin who refuses to accept they're wrong and continues communicating their mistakes as a solution? or does the admin hold some sort of seniority over the player
I know I'm being annoying, but you're defending one end of the spectrum. You just mentioned that people should be more productive, but it's also okay to be pissed off.
Yeah, I did say that. Anyone who has tried to ever become good at anything knows exactly what part anger and frustration plays in the process, and it's a significant one. Ostracizing and isolating the emotion is extremely naive.
As an artist you are already in a constant battle against your own creation, without the extra weight of having to carry all of the weight of other people and what they dump on you. Even if you're right, you're unreasonable in your expectations for an admin to play it perfectly in every single regard. Only god himself is as talented as you are trying to lead on.
The price you demand is far too high, you want it all. And you're doing without even really giving anything in return. To me, that's a red flag.
QuoteAs for your post about Orn, his combative stance was his choice to shut down the server and hurt his playerbase because of a few bad actors. This coincides with alfheim, where they muted the server till midgame, once again, because of a few bad actors. There is nothing combative about these two.
No... don't repurpose what I said, that's toxic. You know damn well I was referring to previous comment:
QuoteTake Return to Morroc for example: He literally hated his community for wanting things changed or asking for exp events.
This trend of taking what someone says and deciding what you meant for them needs to stop, it's super bad.
You were insinuating that he was combative and vocal about his opinions on his design and changes on his game with his players. And you also provided me additional evidence that my read on your initial post is right, in your current post:
QuoteOrn took everything far too personally, and his problem was his view of HIS project, and those who disagreed with that view, were told to leave. Fortunately, this is a fair choice: Why stay where you're not welcome? or rather, why stay when the boss refuses to listen? Regardless, once those few who disagreed left, he then turned that anger unto his community, just poking at anyone who had an opinion which differed from his. You were not allowed to have an opinion, or you would be ridiculed, because he just couldn't handle an opinion.
Nah. This seems like a very efficient way to get people to stop bugging you. Sure... it doesn't prove anything about what's right or wrong, but I guess you never considered that to him, he doesn't care who's right or wrong. He just doesn't want to deal with the attitude, and that is the quickest way of getting you off him. Attitude being the key word.
I can agree he's not perfect, he's an acquaintance of mine and I see his faults for what they are. You're going way overboard. I don't know who taught you that reading between the lines is good, but let me give you a different perspective.
It's not.
Quote from: Felione on Mar 21, 2024, 11:09 PMTake Return to Morroc for example: He literally hated his community for wanting things changed or asking for exp events. That is not an example of someone who wants to handle a community, but rather, get praise from what little support he can. I have my opinion on why he really closed things up, but I'm almost certain he is not telling us everything, or rather, conveniently skewing it.
Saying I hated my community for asking for changes and asking for exp events is quite a surprise. When I turned 32 I made 24h of 3.2x exp for example...it was a running joke in discord that people would ask for exp events for random stuff like payment day, I ate sushi that weekend or whatever else...with a strong denial by me.
Did you experience these first hand or taken it in account from people somewhere else? You can ask that yourself to the players who were there.
Whatever you or someone else calls PRM and its closure, I don't really care. Everyone will call PRM a cashgrab while ignoring the amount of work and the 100% cosmetic cash shop (while ingame there were over 350 costumes, and ALL GARMENTS were achievement rewards, no exceptions).
I'd recommend checking and asking me yourself before going after narratives. Discord: admornstein
Being on the server for a better part of 2 years I can't really agree with some of the accusations thrown around here.
Quote from: FelioneYou also seem to have all the answers to what the people in this community want, so perhaps you have something valuable to say regarding this unfortunate incident which happens to be poor management, poor social skills, lack of community understanding and the benefit it has, and most importantly, communication with said community.
.....
....
Why? because they are PART of the community, they are not the overlords, and they treat everyone equally, including any suck ups, which most recently Muh exhibited. Events are plentiful and actually engage everyone, making it almost pointless to level, when you can just do events all your ro life if that is the choice you decide to make. Their updates involve suggestions and are always within reason, making the experience ENJOYABLE, not something they ENvISION their server should be, but rather, what makes the PLAYERS happy.
He was always quite open and friendly, talked daily with everyone on discord and even engaged in discussions about his design philosophy.. explaining things carefully for people to comprehend his intentions.
However since a lot of bad actors took it as an advantage to mentally drain him off his passion and motivation to work on the server he pretty much stopped interacting on such a personal level, which is a shame but understandable.
Plenty of community suggestions got added in over time.. heck even the last patch implemented dozens of suggestions left by the people on discord.
I had a blast on this server and still enjoy playing daily.
It's really wild our experience is so vastly different.
Not sure how long you've been around or how long you played on PA, but if the management isn't to your liking it's understandable you feel so negatively.. we players either suck it up and deal with it or it aligns with our interests.
Quote from: Felione on Mar 22, 2024, 12:35 PMSo, if it's okay to be pissed off at someone who doesn't know what they're talking about, then it's okay to be angry at an admin who refuses to accept they're wrong and continues communicating their mistakes as a solution? or does the admin hold some sort of seniority over the player, and players having opinions is just counter productive?
Damn you have balls to straight up say an admin is wrong in how they are running their server.
Your last argument however is quite fragile, even I can admit that not everything I utter as an opinion or idea or suggestion would be healthy for the server.
RO players often blurt out their genius mind stroke of the moment without considering all the things that would be impacted by it, so yes.. sometimes players having an opinion is counter productive.
Quote from: Felione on Mar 22, 2024, 12:35 PMAs for your post about Orn, his combative stance was his choice to shut down the server and hurt his playerbase because of a few bad actors. This coincides with alfheim, where they muted the server till midgame, once again, because of a few bad actors. There is nothing combative about these two.
Oh, I remember you now.
You were the person who quit the server because the main chat was locked behind level 50 and made a big deal about it, even after Charlie explained the reasoning behind it.. didn't it turn out to be an oversight? And I believe it got fixed already? Afaik it was a leftover "security bandaid" for spam bots and toxic people when the server had an incredibly high playerpeak.
I am sorry you had such a traumatic experience on the server but I don't quite understand how people find it in their willpower to return posting in this topic to spread negativity after they have already long quit...
Quote from: ghrim987 on Mar 22, 2024, 06:59 PMOh, I remember you now.
You were the person who quit the server because the main chat was locked behind level 50 and made a big deal about it, even after Charlie explained the reasoning behind it.. didn't it turn out to be an oversight? And I believe it got fixed already? Afaik it was a leftover "security bandaid" for spam bots and toxic people when the server had an incredibly high playerpeak.
I am sorry you had such a traumatic experience on the server but I don't quite understand how people find it in their willpower to return posting in this topic to spread negativity after they have already long quit...
I'm also curious as you, why s/he is still here.
Quote from: Gulielmus on Mar 22, 2024, 09:47 PMI'm also curious as you, why s/he is still here.
on their 19th account no less
For the first time I feel I have to agree with Blinzer that we should appreciate RO servers more and stop the hate and negativity.
Quote from: Blinzer on Mar 19, 2024, 11:39 AMRO players are so negative lol.
If a server is operating fine, with minimal bug and non-corrupt, what's not to like? Keep in mind it is a free service. If you don't like the balancing or the direction it is going, don't force yourself into it because it will end up in pain and more hate. You can leave it alone or find somewhere else you like. It definitely isn't the only server in town.
Rather than going on all hate mode and try everything to kill the server, you can even try to run your own server if you think you can do a better job and see how far it go.
I am not talking about this particular server or any server or to anyone. Just making a general statement regarding the state of the community being too negative sometimes.
For one successful server there are 100 that fails, treat it as if someone won the lottery if that will make you feel better. Do we hate the one winning? Well maybe .. sometimes .. nooo but we don't try to ruin their life and wish them die right? Don't be so negative and we will be a happier community.
Do you think when someone start a server, they know how much they will gain or loss from the start? Nobody will estimate that because projection will always fail, I can tell you 50% of the success of a server is based on luck (or uncontrollable factors). But server owners are the ones willing to take a chance, put in the efforts to make their dream server alive. Whatever happen after is unpredictable.
One of the unpredictable is the shape of the community. Either the server attract friendly lovely folks or become the base of toxic haters is not the fault of the server and is beyond anyone's control. This is a hot issue, it often take the most energy to deal with on top of the day to day issue arise in a server.
Please understand you are not the only one very important player of a server and must be served first. You might be one of the (toxic or non-toxic) players that have an issue, contacted (harassed or blamed) the staff and waiting for a response. To the friendly folks, I am sure staying with a positive attitude will make the server staff feel the community is worth their time. To the haters, the server do not owe you anything and you are free to quit.
If we don't re-think our attitude toward servers/staff, start to be more considerate and appreciate the work that was put in. As well as the work put into the free emulators such as eAthena, rAthena and Hercules to keep these projects alive and updated in the last 20+ years. YOU will be the one left to run a server, if your answer is "hell no" then you realize how much damage has been done.
Of course the same goes around, if server treat player like trash, we will have no players. Then we will all left with the official servers.
Quote from: yC on Mar 22, 2024, 11:41 PMFor the first time I feel I have to agree with Blinzer that we should appreciate RO servers more and stop the hate and negativity.
If a server is operating fine, with minimal bug and non-corrupt, what's not to like? Keep in mind it is a free service. If you don't like the balancing or the direction it is going, don't force yourself into it because it will end up in pain and more hate. You can leave it alone or find somewhere else you like. It definitely isn't the only server in town.
Rather than going on all hate mode and try everything to kill the server, you can even try to run your own server if you think you can do a better job and see how far it go.
I am not talking about this particular server or any server or to anyone. Just making a general statement regarding the state of the community being too negative sometimes.
For one successful server there are 100 that fails, treat it as if someone won the lottery if that will make you feel better. Do we hate the one winning? Well maybe .. sometimes .. nooo but we don't try to ruin their life and wish them die right? Don't be so negative and we will be a happier community.
Do you think when someone start a server, they know how much they will gain or loss from the start? Nobody will estimate that because projection will always fail, I can tell you 50% of the success of a server is based on luck (or uncontrollable factors). But server owners are the ones willing to take a chance, put in the efforts to make their dream server alive. Whatever happen after is unpredictable.
One of the unpredictable is the shape of the community. Either the server attract friendly lovely folks or become the base of toxic haters is not the fault of the server and is beyond anyone's control. This is a hot issue, it often take the most energy to deal with on top of the day to day issue arise in a server.
Please understand you are not the only one very important player of a server and must be served first. You might be one of the (toxic or non-toxic) players that have an issue, contacted (harassed or blamed) the staff and waiting for a response. To the friendly folks, I am sure staying with a positive attitude will make the server staff feel the community is worth their time. To the haters, the server do not owe you anything and you are free to quit.
If we don't re-think our attitude toward servers/staff, start to be more considerate and appreciate the work that was put in. As well as the work put into the free emulators such as eAthena, rAthena and Hercules to keep these projects alive and updated in the last 20+ years. YOU will be the one left to run a server, if your answer is "hell no" then you realize how much damage has been done.
Of course the same goes around, if server treat player like trash, we will have no players. Then we will all left with the official server.
So much truth here.
You might think that RO players are all negative, but the truth is that all positive RO players just enjoy the game and won't bother posting here (or anywhere really).
I also think it's a misconception that server owners (or game developers in general) should always cater to the players. Sometimes, you just want to make your own vision and it doesn't really matter much to you if the majority wants it or not. It's basically just "Here I made this thing I personally want to play and if you coincidentally like the same thing, feel free to enjoy it too".
As a consumer the only thing you're entitled to is to decide whether you want to consume the product or not. Of course you can always give suggestions, but these should just help the creator see things they didn't consider for their vision and not force them to change their vision.
Quote from: Playtester on Mar 23, 2024, 05:13 AMYou might think that RO players are all negative, but the truth is that all positive RO players just enjoy the game and won't bother posting here (or anywhere really).
I think it's about the subject, rather than the place(s). I believe I'm a positive kind of player in that I'm aware my suggestions are just suggestions and my opinions are just opinions, and I understand that admins have their own visions and ways of handling things (which I may my own perspective on -- but again, an opinion), but here I am.
Usually, people don't talk about things that are going well, and only feel the need to speak out when something is wrong; it's similar to how news companies would soon be out of business if they changed their approach and published news like "everything's fine," which naturally leads to a lot of problems, including this perception that we're negative in general. In truth, it's just like you said: people who are content are simply playing the game.
Quote from: Playtester on Mar 23, 2024, 05:13 AMI also think it's a misconception that server owners (or game developers in general) should always cater to the players. Sometimes, you just want to make your own vision and it doesn't really matter much to you if the majority wants it or not. It's basically just "Here I made this thing I personally want to play and if you coincidentally like the same thing, feel free to enjoy it too".
As a consumer the only thing you're entitled to is to decide whether you want to consume the product or not. Of course you can always give suggestions, but these should just help the creator see things they didn't consider for their vision and not force them to change their vision.
Definitely. Sometimes I wonder if this isn't a byproduct of people getting so addicted to the idea of democracy that they think everything around them ought to work as such, including places that are obviously not democratic (like a RO server, which often works like "my way or the highway"), which leads to people getting seriously upset that their ideas, which they're so sure are magnificent, are not heard. I wouldn't be surprised if it turned out like some cultural/political explanation like this is the key, because the truth is that this is not unique to RO. I've seen it only too much over the internet.
That said, I agree with yC and Blitzen. People (not just Felione, but the general sort who take their own takes to another degree) seriously need to sit down, chill and think what exactly in the world they're doing, acting like that.
Quote from: Metan on Mar 23, 2024, 09:30 AMThat said, I agree with yC and Blitzen. People (not just Felione, but the general sort who take their own takes to another degree) seriously need to sit down, chill and think what exactly in the world they're doing, acting like that.
I'm informing people of mistakes and issues surrounding a problem. I wouldn't really call that democratic. I also provided proven solutions through comparison. What exactly am I doing wrong on a forum that discusses servers where you are allowed to state your own opinion? I don't have to think about anything but my own opinion of a product I chose to consume for a time before I dropped it. No one's feelings is a part of this, nor is defending the idea that it's difficult to start a server for "free". It is a risk, which comes with obvious consequences. The way you act as an admin reflects if people will stay, or people will go, and I believe people need to be informed of someone's discretion, observe it themselves, and make a decision. If I was the sole person who dictated whether someone plays a server, I would never type a word on this forum, but the beauty of being an individual, is that I can write a novel of terrible and negative things, and people could simply ignore it. I think the reason why anything I say bothers anyone, is because it's very direct and to the point. If any issue exists, it needs to be pointed out, or nothing will be fixed. It's that simple. If it's not fixed? well, the appropriate actions are taken by a playerbase.
My main issue with server owners continuing the way they do, is, it leads to failure, and unfortunately, the only victims are the PLAYERS who wasted their time, something MONEY can't buy, on a person's poor decisive skills. If you have a vision of something, giving the players small amounts of compassion wouldn't hurt you or your vision, but some people are just childish and refuse to see anything else. I know this from experience, because I'm a writer, and after showing my work to people, I was given advice I thought was terrible, and some I thought were good. Did I sulk in a corner? did I put my foot down and declare war on ideas? no. I simply adapted a massive change, which forced me to rewrite hundreds of hours of text, so that it was more presentable towards a certain audience, WHILE keeping things as close to my vision as I could.
If I, someone with a low self-esteem, who is normally rather fragile, can take the advice of people who dislike my work, a server owner can make a consideration for their donations. I personally don't get it. This type of game is dead without a community, so why on earth would you grudge over your community's advice and quite possibly their needs to stay? it's mind boggling that I have to write this, like it needed to be explained.
Once again, the example is MUHRO, a server which had 20 players (unsure of that number actually, might have been 40+) , suddenly got about 200 players, and instead of keeping to their VISION, they asked the community, they TALKED with the community, they DISCUSSED SOLUTIONS with the community, and even today, they are COMMUNITY ORIENTED. Many changes were made for the sake of new players, and yes, the old ones didn't like it, but they were minor changes, so guess what happened? yes, yes, they stayed, that's correct. They retained their old community, while adapting a new one, with fresh ideas. Yes, I'm sure to them it was a traumatic time reading all the terrible suggestions, and watching people argue over them, but they arrived with a compromise for everyone. When there was an event people disliked and complained about, they were SUPER annoyed at the community, specifically ME I'm sure, for pointing out how awful it felt, but instead of banning me and getting rid of me, they kept me, they gave me an event I LOVE, and PEOPLE love, and now everything is fine and dandy. See how that works? the reason why I'm so loyal to them is because I gave them the HARDEST TIME OF THEIR LIVES pointing out issues with a change they might have, and I argued my points with ignorant people, so it was quite toxic, but they were BOTH mature enough to opt for a SOLUTION, without sulking that I'm a terrible person who deserved to be banned. This is how you run a server. It's not a feelings factory for someone's mental health, it is a business, filled with customers RUNNING THE BUSINESS on the side, and until server owners understand this gimmick, we're going to have a lot of dead servers.
I am doing nothing wrong, and everyone I speak about, deserves to be spoken about in such a way, unless proven otherwise. Like all of you, I want something great, but without great thinking, it will not happen. As an Admin, just love your community, and show them they're worth your time investment, so they can invest their time in you, and for the love of god, stop complicating the process.
I know this was long, but thank you for reading.
Quote from: Felione on Mar 23, 2024, 12:36 PMMy main issue with server owners continuing the way they do, is, it leads to failure, and unfortunately, the only victims are the PLAYERS who wasted their time, something MONEY can't buy, on a person's poor decisive skills. If you have a vision of something, giving the players small amounts of compassion wouldn't hurt you or your vision, but some people are just childish and refuse to see anything else. I know this from experience, because I'm a writer, and after showing my work to people, I was given advice I thought was terrible, and some I thought were good. Did I sulk in a corner? did I put my foot down and declare war on ideas? no. I simply adapted a massive change, which forced me to rewrite hundreds of hours of text, so that it was more presentable towards a certain audience, WHILE keeping things as close to my vision as I could.
Did you approach people with the intent of getting advice? Did you think your work had room for improvement but couldn't put your finger on what's lacking?
There is a fine line with going out of your way to ask for feedback and advice and having it shoved down your throat.
There is another issue when only a small fraction of the playerbase even uses discord.
You'll never have a clear view if your suggestions or criticism will lead to changes that flips another part of the community off completely.
Recently people were -screeching-
daily about L4L (leech for loot) in our individual loot dungeons, so naturally to adress the constant b**** we received adjustments that toned down L4L but now people can't multi client on said maps anymore.. guess what? It seems to be causing even more screeching than before, because now it's harder to get a party going in the first place.
To clarify the point I am trying to make:
Something that some people make out to be a huge deal is a non-issue for many others, similar to how the chat restriction was to you.
There were many options you could've chosen:
A) play for 2 hours to reach the level needed to chat away
B) go to town and chat away with people if it's that important to you
C) join a guild and chat away, plenty of welcoming ones for new people
D) talk on discord while playing until you get to the point
But somehow that non-issue snowballed into all of this?
Quote from: Felione on Mar 23, 2024, 12:36 PMIf I, someone with a low self-esteem, who is normally rather fragile, can take the advice of people who dislike my work, a server owner can make a consideration for their donations. I personally don't get it. This type of game is dead without a community, so why on earth would you grudge over your community's advice and quite possibly their needs to stay? it's mind boggling that I have to write this, like it needed to be explained.
Are we still talking about PA at this point?
As I've mentioned before, content gets adjusted via player feedback and player suggestions get implemented steadily.
I often see people (that quit) asking for PA 2.0 with a fresh server reset, so apparently the server can't be as bad as you make it out to be?
I think some people just expect too much out of the small dev team PA has, I am surprised we get big updates as frequently as we do honestly.
Quote from: Felione on Mar 23, 2024, 12:36 PMI'm informing people of mistakes and issues surrounding a problem. I wouldn't really call that democratic. I also provided proven solutions through comparison. What exactly am I doing wrong on a forum that discusses servers where you are allowed to state your own opinion? I don't have to think about anything but my own opinion of a product I chose to consume for a time before I dropped it. No one's feelings is a part of this, nor is defending the idea that it's difficult to start a server for "free". It is a risk, which comes with obvious consequences. The way you act as an admin reflects if people will stay, or people will go, and I believe people need to be informed of someone's discretion, observe it themselves, and make a decision. If I was the sole person who dictated whether someone plays a server, I would never type a word on this forum, but the beauty of being an individual, is that I can write a novel of terrible and negative things, and people could simply ignore it. I think the reason why anything I say bothers anyone, is because it's very direct and to the point. If any issue exists, it needs to be pointed out, or nothing will be fixed. It's that simple. If it's not fixed? well, the appropriate actions are taken by a playerbase.
My main issue with server owners continuing the way they do, is, it leads to failure, and unfortunately, the only victims are the PLAYERS who wasted their time, something MONEY can't buy, on a person's poor decisive skills. If you have a vision of something, giving the players small amounts of compassion wouldn't hurt you or your vision, but some people are just childish and refuse to see anything else. I know this from experience, because I'm a writer, and after showing my work to people, I was given advice I thought was terrible, and some I thought were good. Did I sulk in a corner? did I put my foot down and declare war on ideas? no. I simply adapted a massive change, which forced me to rewrite hundreds of hours of text, so that it was more presentable towards a certain audience, WHILE keeping things as close to my vision as I could.
If I, someone with a low self-esteem, who is normally rather fragile, can take the advice of people who dislike my work, a server owner can make a consideration for their donations. I personally don't get it. This type of game is dead without a community, so why on earth would you grudge over your community's advice and quite possibly their needs to stay? it's mind boggling that I have to write this, like it needed to be explained.
Oh please, this was never about whether you're allowed to state your mind in a public forum, so don't twist it like that. It's the assumption that admins out there not just ought to, but
have to listen to inputs lest they be labeled a close-minded brute who hold their community in low esteem.
You think your ideas are sound and shoving them aside will but smother a great potential, or exacerbate an ongoing mistake? Now there's something GMs hear every day; presenting your stuff shouldn't completely influence anybody at a first glance unless it's disarmingly great. Taking this to mind, why should one's suggestions prevail amidst all others just because they have been suggested?
Moreover, I believe your idea that people in a position of power such as an admin should be more open-minded in the sense of what you're describing, and expecting, is rather counterintuitive, and potentially self-destructive. Not that it'll drive you mad or something, but in that it will degrade the original objective which you once envisioned. Where is the line that dictates at which point a server admin should reconsider their vision and instead open up to what third people have to say? And, past this point, where is the line that defines whether your idea still breathes, whether it hasn't been forever disfigured by the wheels of change? These are not so clear that one can talk about them objectively, yet they're so present that it would be a blunder to not consider them. The ego is not to be isolated, but fostered. As a writer yourself, this piece of wisdom should have long been ingrained deep into your thinking. If you cater too much to the public, your original work perishes, and it turns out that you're no longer presenting your feelings and thoughts through art, you're merely providing entertainment made cheap to be as inclusive to external ideas as possible. You essentially become the public's intellectual b****. Though I also happen to speak as a writer myself, this idea applies to all things in life where you're supposed to take a stance in the name of something or someones, and, to a less extent (you're not exactly developing a game from scratch, but some of it is still there), managing a RO server.
Besides, most of us have been playing RO for decades, and as we get older, ideas solidify, the mind loses its fluidity and adaptability, and we just stick to what we think is right, refined or degraded by decades of living. It's just natural. I think people often forget this part because it may be hard to imagine 30+ or even 40+ yo people playing games, it's usually seen as a young people's kind of thing, but a good chunk of the community, to not say the majority, is just that old, so this is worth stating.
I honestly didn't and won't read the last paragraphs because the moment someone begins to capitalize words in the middle of a sentence, it feels like they're screaming at the reader, and that behavior marks the death of reason. Overall, you don't strike me as someone who usually suggests what you think is a good idea, but more like someone who's hellbent to force a hot potato down my throat, and damn if I refuse.
EDIT: TBH, I think this thread has run its course a long time ago, even before this discussion. Is this even about PA anymore? lol