RateMyServer Ragnarok Community

This is a call for help from the entire Payon Stories (WoE) playerbase to all fellow Ragnarok Online players still out there. We are in desperate need for positive change.

Server Website link: https://cp.payonstories.com/
Official Discord link: https://discord.gg/4bw6dVVq9d
Community Discord (WoE Channel) link: https://discord.gg/zEKYFCtMre

Here's why:

(https://i.imgur.com/ApwiSVn.png)

As you can see, the p2w guild has MORE than DOUBLE as many points as rank 2 and 3 on that list. And this will only get worse if things stay the way they are.

---

Currently the MVP and WoE scene on Payon Stories (PS) is being dominated by one SINGLE guild called; "p2w". They have been claiming 2 out of 3 castles almost every WoE and are doing even better in the MVP scene. To the point that they already have several confirmed MVP cards. And that on a 1x server that has only been online for at most a year. The worst part is that when anyone tries to compete with them over MVP's, they will try their best to bend the rules to their favour to catch anyone who is even slightly overstepping the rules and report them to the GM's. Ofcourse, not everyone in their guild is guilty of doing this, but it has happened in the past.  :-[

(https://i.imgur.com/mW3PO8N.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/c1aOJWq.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/lzStTMC.png)

You might be thinking; "Why is this a problem? Just get better at the game!". We are trying our best, but it's hard. For every 5 good players we have in our guilds, we will have 5 newbies who we have to train. We simply lack manpower and people willing to learn! And the people who try WoE get beat so bad (by p2w) that they don't want to return. They just quit. Compare this to p2w who are rumored to have hundreds of members in their discord. 100s of players who can step in at any moment! If this keeps going as is, p2w will continue to gather more resources, more MVP cards and before long, they will be making god items en masse! This would widen the gap between them and our guilds even more, to the point where we can't possibly catch up anymore. D:

(https://i.imgur.com/BwuL4ZS.png)

It would kill the WoE scene AND the server. We can't let that happen.  /omg
To prevent this from happening, we the Payon Stories community have no choice but to ask for outside help. Our guilds simply cannot beat the p2w guild. Due to the custom WoE rules on our server, we cannot team up and ally with each other to fight them. We can only fight them head on and ultimately fail.

Is there any guild in our small but tight knit RO private server community who can beat this p2w guild? Please help our server. We would be immensely grateful to you and your members.  /lv

---

It wouldn't be so bad to lose to a group of friendly and respectful players, but p2w is far from that (save for a few exceptions). Here are some examples of trash talk that simply goes too far. Why do you have to talk down to us after you beat us? The following messages are all from p2w members, but we have blanked out their names so as to not publicly expose them. We try to be the better people.

(https://i.imgur.com/IndrS94.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/v3p6aqF.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/MMQATiq.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/0Bc7qAF.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/MYDL15i.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/xr8rJzA.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/p6HuBbb.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/hlZBso9.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/aZYn70E.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/TCmP69t.png)

And this is nothing compared to what happens in town after a WoE. You will often see tens of chatboxes all scattered over Payon (maintown) with the words; "EZGG" and "GG NOOBS". This happens EVERY single time. What happened to winning with class?

---

There are people claiming that this guild RMT's as well, but there are no confirmed reports so we will not delve into that. After all, everyone is innocent until proven guilty.

(https://i.imgur.com/5XQpY15.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/nvT2q81.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/JPpIUgk.png)

---

There are also some p2w members who are extremely rude to the Payon Stories WoE GM. To the point where we think it can be called bullying. It's really uncalled for, because these people are volunteers who try to create a better environment for us, the players. These are just some examples. It's really not nice.

(https://i.imgur.com/bfIJNxG.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/bfIJNxG.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/7V9YKg1.png)

staff edit: misleading topic title.

Hello everyone! We would like to give you a quick update on the Payon Stories WoE scene and the improvements that we have made since the original post was created. A lot of things have happened during the last few weeks. Some positive, some negative, but mostly positive and that's great news!

Here are the WoE standings week after week after the OP was first created:


(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1077709118263001108/1130502335450316860/image-11.png)

As you can see, week 5 was more of the same. Our guilds suffered and p2w pretty much ran through us quite easily. This was a couple days after we asked for help from the RO community so it was to be expected that there weren't any significant improvements. p2w ended up having more than double the amount of points compared to rank 1 and 2 combined. They also maintained two castles.


(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1077709118263001108/1132478467443802142/image-20.png)

Here's week 6. We managed to break one of p2w's castles! The downside was that we had to work together, and since we are officially not allowed to work together on Payon Stories, we lost points...  /hmm
During these two weeks, we have had a bunch of new players willing to help us both from inside and outside our server. Things were looking very good.


(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1077709118263001108/1135266323237179525/image-17.png)

Here's week 7 from last Saturday. WE DID IT. WE FINALLY BROKE THEIR ECONOMY. It literally took us 40 minutes of fighting and a lot of teamwork and preparation, but we did it. We broke their most important castle and managed to keep them out. It truly was very difficult, but we just came together with a common goal and finally managed to slay the giant if you will. Unfortunately as you can see, we again lost a lot of points due to penalties for our teamwork. But it was worth it!

We would like to thank everyone who helped us in the last two WoE's, especially the people who recently joined us from outside of Payon Stories! We can't even describe how grateful we are to you all. Let's hope this is the start of a grand new beginning and a fairer WoE for us all. Thank you!  /lv  /lv  /lv 



Btw, they (p2w) are making fun of us for having to work together to beat them. It was quite funny seeing them angry and upset for the first time since the start of the server.  /gg
Some examples below:

(https://i.imgur.com/MalM7RU.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/8KN1dyu.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/9RBPMWP.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/nX8AicX.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/du1vjl2.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/wsKN2wK.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/zZACepL.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/LeObYFm.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/3fhyi5l.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/EKGRFc8.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/az0j54k.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/WqZffHw.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/fN4DRk6.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/exDq8tq.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/kpK9P2k.png)

It's good to dish out some much earned karma! Of course we kept the teasing to a minimum and we've tried to be respectful even though it was very tempting to say some NOT so friendly things to them. Graceful in defeat and victory, that's how it should be.  /no1

Is this your first lowrate server with woe? There were so many servers out there where some guilds literally dominated the moment the stepped on it.
People are just bad as f*** and just because the game gets older these people are not getting any better. You need a winning mindset for this and its totally fine to make fun about the rest of the comp.

GG noobs

You're really naive if you think the only thing they "dominate" (they don't, btw) is WoE and MvP. The group is notorious for "achieving" this in every server they play, with the only exception being Origins, as the server's staff there don't f*** around.

If you have any sense, you nor anybody else wouldn't be playing there to begin with... but you do you. Gonna leave it like that, do your digging :)

whatever, dude. the entire planet has witnessed you act like an awful human being on like 10000 occasions, trying to pretend like you care about anything out of the goodness of your heart now means nothing. maybe if you want help from good people, don't outright disrespect them for absolutely 0 reason.

Quote from: Nova on Jul 16, 2023, 05:09 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/9iz1RPv.png)

Uhh... bro I'm going to have to ask you to stop drawing black wieners all over the screenshots please.

Quote from: iMissDecentServers on Jul 16, 2023, 07:18 PMIf you have any sense, you nor anybody else wouldn't be playing there to begin with... but you do you. Gonna leave it like that, do your digging :)

Exactly. Anyone with half a brain wouldn't be playing on that server anyway given it's terrible history. I can only hope and pray the server stays open as long as possible to contain all of it's toxic (and stupid) players in one place. Ciao.

From what I see, there's no REAL proof of any sort of cheating.

They're just ill behaved people who are bloody good at the game & have the resources to force supremacy at the same time. There's nothing you can do.

The bullying is upon the staff to deal with. It's the same with potential cheating that may be going on. Nobody from the outside is gonna "save" the server.

If you don't like it, play elsewhere, there are a lot of good servers. Move with your friends.

Its more like the guild that playin there just afraid to challange them... I dont see any cheat on this.

This happened in Solace when a Korean guild joined our server and everyone referred to them as cheaters because no guild could fight back. The guild leader even posts WoE videos, demonstrating that they are mechanically adept and understand the meta. They departed because they were tired of dealing with people who were disparaging them, calling them names, and failing to recognize their abilities. They are not impolite. When they speak, they are exceedingly courteous. It's just that no one can beat them.

The remaining members of that Korean guild then joined other guilds, and that guild dominated the server until we were CnD'd by our hosting due to GRAVITY.

The only option is to improve or move to another server.

Quote from: Neffletics on Jul 17, 2023, 02:58 PM
This happened in Solace when a Korean guild joined our server and everyone referred to them as cheaters because no guild could fight back. The guild leader even posts WoE videos, demonstrating that they are mechanically adept and understand the meta. They departed because they were tired of dealing with people who were disparaging them, calling them names, and failing to recognize their abilities. They are not impolite. When they speak, they are exceedingly courteous. It's just that no one can beat them.

The remaining members of that Korean guild then joined other guilds, and that guild dominated the server until we were CnD'd by our hosting due to GRAVITY.

The only option is to improve or move to another server.

True always hurts i guess quote with you.

Let me think:

Go play on a server full of people who were previously toxic, where someone is advertising its toxicity, after its previous iteration's admin was encouraging people to be toxic based on lies about people who didn't even play the server?

Ya.... tough one!


I'mma say no because I like trans, late episodes and rates around 5~10x


You can't convince me this isn't a psyop by p2w for more competition.

Quote from: Xellie on Jul 18, 2023, 07:42 AM
Let me think:

Go play on a server full of people who were previously toxic, where someone is advertising its toxicity, after its previous iteration's admin was encouraging people to be toxic based on lies about people who didn't even play the server?

Ya.... tough one!


I'mma say no because I like trans, late episodes and rates around 5~10x


You can't convince me this isn't a psyop by p2w for more competition.

It really isn't Xellie. We are not blowing this matter out of proportion. You can see that from the current WoE standings as shown below:

(https://i.imgur.com/qPzBPqL.png)


There's frankly nothing we (our guilds) can do about it. We've already lowered ourselves enough by posting a public call for help so we really don't know what else to say or do. And it's not just us that p2w is talking trash about. We get the full brunt of it, but others are also being babbled about. Such as yourself and your guild:

(https://i.imgur.com/1uoig18.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/P6WA6CY.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/8I8mhgp.png)

Again, these are all p2m members and they are doing it publicly... /swt

mmm free rent.

I see they haven't changed much. Beaten by a girl a few times and reliving it for a decade onward.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=81_6vDK-8lk (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=81_6vDK-8lk)

Fixed the video, that was the wrong one

Quote from: Xellie on Jul 18, 2023, 09:16 AM
mmm free rent.

I see they haven't changed much. Beaten by a girl a few times and reliving it for a decade onward.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AviaNFD1-xM (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AviaNFD1-xM)

Can I ask you a question completely unrelated to any of this? Why are you playing a male assassin? I've never understood why people don't just play as their gender. For example when I play an RPG or MMO, I will always pick my own gender for immersion. Is this some type of new-age thing, I don't get it.  /hmm

Quote from: Nova on Jul 18, 2023, 09:25 AM
Can I ask you a question completely unrelated to any of this? Why are you playing a male assassin? I've never understood why people don't just play as their gender. For example when I play an RPG or MMO, I will always pick my own gender for immersion. Is this some type of new-age thing, I don't get it.  /hmm

Literally accidentally picked male when signing up in 2002 - I uh didn't even realize it was a male sin until someone asked me in game... cuz the hair.

Quote from: Xellie on Jul 18, 2023, 09:26 AM
Literally accidentally picked male when signing up in 2002 - I uh didn't even realize it was a male sin until someone asked me in game... cuz the hair.

That makes sense. Thanks for the piece of Xellie lore.   /ok

This is funny. If they are cheating they deserve to be punished hard but you say they are not and you are publicly crying for help. Like cmon. Either improve the skills or dont play servers with super low rates if you cant afford to spend as much effort as some people.

Hi everyone. I'm Devastate, the WoE GM for Payon Stories. I've been in this role since the first WoE on Payon Stories, and I wanted to clarify some things on this topic.

I don't think the player that posted this plays WoE here. In fact I don't think they actively play on the server right now. Basically it is a silly post, and this particular person is known by our community for their silly antics. But regarding WoE, they don't speak for any guild here.

Also, the discord screenshots in OP are not from our official discord. They are from a discord that we don't moderate and don't support.

We at Payon Stories have strict behavioral rules, especially as it relates to WoE. Trash talk or harassment in game or on the official discord is not allowed and leads to skill mutes during WoE and a loss of play time outside of WoE. My goal is for it to be possible for a casual player to enjoy WoE without having another player go out of their way to make them feel bad verbally. As a result it is actually very rare that I have to issue a mute or a ban related to WoE behavior, and we do not get many support tickets about WoE (I can count them on one hand). Guild leaders also agree to "good sportsmanship" guidelines before they are whitelisted for WoE, and we expect them to help enforce those behavioral guidelines in their guilds. After all, a failure to do so could lead to some holes in their roster.

Unlike OathRO, we don't hesitant to ban and blacklist toxic players that cause repeated headaches for staff. Our server is not funded by donations. Most people on staff are doing well in their professional lives, so money isn't an issue for us. But we are also busy people. Payon Stories is a labor of love for us, and we do it for free. However, that also means we are very protective of our time and energy. Our willingness to work is our most valuable asset, so we do indeed have strict moderation up front, with the goal of keeping staff morale high and moderation workload low.

I am particularly proud of our CM team, which puts quite a bit of effort into investigating players breaking rules on our server such as RMT, dual-clienting, illegal GRF use, and botting. And we don't show any favoritism, long-standing accounts have been banned just because they RMTd once.

Regarding the WoE seasonal points standings, we have many casual guilds that participate. Some players even bring a PVM character to their first few WoEs here. Why do these guilds participate? Because our seasonal points system gives some pretty hefty rewards even to the guilds that are in last place. Some of these players end up really enjoying WoE here, and they warm up to the idea of making a WoE character. So, while it is true that P2W is in the lead, there are still lots of guilds and players that are having fun and getting rewarded for participating regularly.

When I first started here, a complaint that I got was that "WoE felt like a walled garden" back on OathRO. I'd like to think we have designed a WoE platform here that is friendly and accessible to casual players, and also rewarding to them in terms of making progress in the game. We also have a healthy and friendly community that doesn't have much drama.

For some players, that aspect of our community might be boring. Hence this thread.

Ironically, a notorious guild with a history of members conducting RMT thrives in a server infamous for past admin abuse; a case of like attracts like, perhaps?

Quote from: betwixtbetween on Jul 19, 2023, 08:24 PM
Ironically, a notorious guild with a history of members conducting RMT thrives in a server infamous for past admin abuse; a case of like attracts like, perhaps?

We have a new admin, and all current staff members are new. The community reformed, and we have a different ethos than OathRO in terms of how we manage the community. That's why WoE moderation is pretty heavy.

Payon Stories will never be able to fully clear their image or remove the big question mark as no matter if the staff is new or it's another admin. The current admin was part of the old staff and that's enough to always be something questionable. Also there's the main problem with, as long as the server allows that guild to play there, there will always be rumours and people avoiding the server like plague due to the guild's history in every server they played on, including OathRO, which everything went public towards the end.

Quote from: iMissDecentServers on Jul 20, 2023, 12:14 AM
Payon Stories will never be able to fully clear their image or remove the big question mark as no matter if the staff is new or it's another admin. The current admin was part of the old staff and that's enough to always be something questionable. Also there's the main problem with, as long as the server allows that guild to play there, there will always be rumours and people avoiding the server like plague due to the guild's history in every server they played on, including OathRO, which everything went public towards the end.

I understand. That's why I wanted to share my insider perspective.

I see the investigations the CM team does, and sometimes help out with them. I see the work we do, the content and balance discussions, future planning, rules adjustments. I see how professionally the staff works, and how we pace ourselves since we are doing it for fun and not as a job (some of our players don't like that part, but it is what it is). Most of us have degrees and apply our knowledge in the areas that we can, with mine being finance and economics. And we focus a lot on player experience and the health of the community. We want it to be a community and server that we also enjoy being a part of and feel good about supporting. It is entirely possible for a WoE player to play here without anyone saying nasty things to them. I don't know how many servers can say that, but we can.

I think it's a unique server and I love it here. Just wanted to share that :) take care guys.

Edit: one last thing that I think is worth mentioning... our admin, Dastgir, is the person that caught the Oath admin cheating in WoE and confronted him. That led to the oath admin deleting the server. If Dastgir was not ethical and trustworthy then I don't think he would have done that. We have a good admin, an ethical team, and people are having fun :)

Quote from: iMissDecentServers on Jul 20, 2023, 12:14 AM
Payon Stories will never be able to fully clear their image or remove the big question mark as no matter if the staff is new or it's another admin. The current admin was part of the old staff and that's enough to always be something questionable. Also there's the main problem with, as long as the server allows that guild to play there, there will always be rumours and people avoiding the server like plague due to the guild's history in every server they played on, including OathRO, which everything went public towards the end.

It's not just that they are the successor to a corrupt server that was nuked because the admin had a melty.
It's that they defended his corruption to the death, and tried to shift the blame on the community for "causing" his meltdown in an action that I can only describe as gaslighting.  /omg

(https://files.catbox.moe/fd5urp.png)
(https://files.catbox.moe/h9rfbm.png)

They defended him as a poor innocent dindunuffin, right until he backstabbed them too and took all their money.  /heh /heh
Then, all of a sudden, they were shocked and betrayed.  /wah What's the matter Dastgir/Ayami, I thought poor innocent Oathkeeper only acted in self-defense against the evil WoE bullies during a nervous breakdown? /gg Remember that? Remember how that was your story?

A few clarifying points:

Ayami isn't on staff.

Oath was not good at managing the behavior of players and incentivizing good behavior. He was just too loose with enforcement. He also tried to manage the woe platform directly while covering other responsibilities. So the key changes we've made are 1. Stricter rule and behavior enforcement, especially as it relates to WoE, and 2. A dedicated staff member to handle WoE (that's me).

Given the history, notorious RMT guild presence, and numerous red flags, I'd steer clear of it. I wouldn't be surprised if the server wont last long.

Can I just that say that the amount of desperate people trying to defame this server because they couldn't follow simple basic rules and made their own discord account dedicated to this server so they can thrash talk all they want  is mind boggling. Dude, just enjoy the game and this server doesn't revolve around WOE; majority of people you see in towns are casual players.

I honestly never heard of P2W until they joined Oath/Payon so they really most not be that well 'known' if people that are heavily into WoE across multiple servers at one time never heard of them. Plus I just want to add, no matter how hard a servers staff tries there will always be people RMT'ing. I mean look to the official servers of any game alive today.  /no1  [By no means deeming RMT is ok, just that you can live, breath, eat, sleep policing RMT and people will still evade your notice.]

Plus Reborn, the one that said he was RMT'ing after OathRO melt down was a hot head that loved to stroke his eggo every chance he got. Even would go on about how he has MVP cards[That were on a 1k rate server] and try playing it off as they are on a 1x server. The man is a sad troll that loves kicking people while they are down when he sees a chance. But heck search the name of the server you play on now with RMT after it and you'll see where you play isn't clean either.

Quote from: Rayeth on Jul 21, 2023, 12:09 PMCan I just that say that the amount of desperate people trying to defame this server because they couldn't follow simple basic rules and made their own discord account dedicated to this server so they can thrash talk all they want  is mind boggling. Dude, just enjoy the game and this server doesn't revolve around WOE; majority of people you see in towns are casual players.

"Everyone who doesn't like my server must be a banned or disgruntled player, my server is perfect and has no flaws!" -You

This was a common comment of the Admin team on OathRO too, then the server died a few months later. History sure loves to repeat itself.

Quote from: ForgotMyOldAccount on Jul 21, 2023, 03:28 PM"Everyone who doesn't like my server must be a banned or disgruntled player, my server is perfect and has no flaws!" -You

This was a common comment of the Admin team on OathRO too, then the server died a few months later. History sure loves to repeat itself.

Payon Stories is doing just fine. History loves to repeat itself just like 12974567x server out there. Thats the risk you take not playing the official. I don't know why people take this game so seriously. 

Quote from: ForgotMyOldAccount on Jul 21, 2023, 03:28 PM"Everyone who doesn't like my server must be a banned or disgruntled player, my server is perfect and has no flaws!" -You

This was a common comment of the Admin team on OathRO too, then the server died a few months later. History sure loves to repeat itself.

Honestly sounds more like the TravelsRO owner and cult worshipers xD "Travels it perfect, LordJ could never do any wrong"  /heh  /heh  /heh  /heh  /heh  /heh  /heh  /heh  /heh  /heh  /heh  /heh
Just for the guy to end up s*** himself and closing down his server without a word to anyone.

Quote from: Shuchou on Jul 21, 2023, 11:41 PMHonestly sounds more like the TravelsRO owner and cult worshipers xD "Travels it perfect, LordJ could never do any wrong"  /heh  /heh  /heh  /heh  /heh  /heh  /heh  /heh  /heh  /heh  /heh  /heh
Just for the guy to end up s*** himself and closing down his server without a word to anyone.

Lol yeah, I forgot about that guy. He invented the book on this sort of maniacal behavior.

Quote from: Rayeth on Jul 21, 2023, 06:25 PMI don't know why people take this game so seriously. 

I don't know what to tell you bro, we're on a website where you rate and review servers. People are going to rate and review servers on this website.

Although, I think this posts topic name should be changed to "Payon Stories has been DEVASTATED by a guild named p2w" not to give people the wrong idea that just sees the name and never opens the post.

Juicy, juicy drama. Always the same outcomes!

Quote from: Shuchou on Jul 21, 2023, 12:36 PMI honestly never heard of P2W

You likely heard of iro scrubs, though?. It's the same group. Aside from iRO Classic, another hot server they played on was GGRO. To keep it short: avoid this guild and playing whatever server they're on.

Quote from: ForgotMyOldAccount on Jul 22, 2023, 11:42 AMLol yeah, I forgot about that guy. He invented the book on this sort of maniacal behavior.

Would say the one to invent this famous excuse/shield is Seiren and Boreas from TalonRO/Talon Tales haha. They (and their minions and chills) have been using that to defend themselves before it was the go-to defense for any server owner lol they actually believe people in 2023 would still take their words for it, when likely 95% of the community passed at their server at some point and saw for themselves all the bad stuff people review and say. They're just so scared of losing their herd of sheeps that milks them nonstop, and that's why I got happy when Gravity destroyed Nova and will be when they go after the next blatant scam servers that stain our community.

Quote from: Rayeth on Jul 21, 2023, 06:25 PMPayon Stories is doing just fine. History loves to repeat itself just like 12974567x server out there. Thats the risk you take not playing the official. I don't know why people take this game so seriously. 

Sounds identical to officials to me.

I'm not in p2w, neither playing Payon Stories, but I've already played both with p2w and against them.

Is p2w full of a******, toxic, etc? Yes, the big majority of competitive woe guild are.
Is p2w a very organized guild with a f*** of people playing 24/7? Also yes.

Get over it. They've been playing together for over 10 years now, they'll obviously be better than a newly formed guild full of weebs that has never woe'd competitively, which is the case for ALL the other guilds playing against them in Payon Stories (Like come on, Dandellion was a tier 1 guild in Payon Stories and in any previous servers they were always sitting at the bottom of the rankings).

They've been stomped in the past by other extremely sweaty guilds like Insurrection or TMW, because that's what you require to beat them, to be equally or more sweaty than them.

There's no one to "save the woe" if the guilds playing against them couldn't care enough to actually improve themselves, which is very obviously the case. Like how many times these other guilds have been reviewing their own VODs to understand what they're doing wrong during WOE before asking for f*** Rune-Midgard's UNICEF Humanitarian help?

Quote from: Xellie on Jul 18, 2023, 09:16 AMmmm free rent.

I see they haven't changed much. Beaten by a girl a few times and reliving it for a decade onward.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=81_6vDK-8lk (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=81_6vDK-8lk)

Fixed the video, that was the wrong one

Also, it's insane to me that this video was shared to imply any kind of flex lmao. I'm not even attacking you, your playskill, or whatever. But gearing an >>ASSASSIN CROSS<< with that many god items and mvps for you to simply do sit around and do nothing while your guild is doing all the work and then adding a clip of you recalling on a random castle's first floor is CRAZY.

That's like buying a $50k high-end PC while having Dial-Up Internet and then bragging about your 1/47/12 KDA in an online game.

I'm always wondering why if a single guild dominates WoE, why that guild doesn't split up to fight each other and make it more challenging? Like, it can't really be fun if there's no challenge, right?

Quote from: Playtester on Jul 25, 2023, 05:55 PMI'm always wondering why if a single guild dominates WoE, why that guild doesn't split up to fight each other and make it more challenging? Like, it can't really be fun if there's no challenge, right?

Before the death of OathRO the guild P2W was getting slapped around pretty good that they needed to have two underling guilds 3 v 1 so they could win. But since the server restarted and the core WoE guilds moved on, leaving P2W and its underling guilds against the not so skilled start up WoE guilds this time around.

Quote from: tnznt on Jul 25, 2023, 04:04 PMother extremely sweaty guilds like Insurrection or TMW

I'm unable to think of 2 guilds that cheated more than these two.

Quote from: Playtester on Jul 25, 2023, 05:55 PMI'm always wondering why if a single guild dominates WoE, why that guild doesn't split up to fight each other and make it more challenging? Like, it can't really be fun if there's no challenge, right?

p2w may be the strongest guild, but the woe's are competitive. This entire thread is a troll post for people to eat up that don't even play the server lol.

Quote from: Shuchou on Jul 25, 2023, 07:57 PMBefore the death of OathRO the guild P2W was getting slapped around pretty good that they needed to have two underling guilds 3 v 1 so they could win. But since the server restarted and the core WoE guilds moved on, leaving P2W and its underling guilds against the not so skilled start up WoE guilds this time around.

Funny  /??

Quote from: vrypwrful on Jul 25, 2023, 07:59 PMI'm unable to think of 2 guilds that cheated more than these two.

I mean, while I agree that TMW might have been over the top, I can also say that nobody's hands are clean if we woe competitively. Truth is that everyone that has woe'd cheated at some point and p2w/iro scrubs isn't the exception. Not saying it's the case for Payon Stories as I firmly believe that no one is cheating there (no irony), but also because these guilds are pretty f*** bad let's be honest.

Quote from: tnznt on Jul 25, 2023, 04:17 PMAlso, it's insane to me that this video was shared to imply any kind of flex lmao. I'm not even attacking you, your playskill, or whatever. But gearing an >>ASSASSIN CROSS<< with that many god items and mvps for you to simply do sit around and do nothing while your guild is doing all the work and then adding a clip of you recalling on a random castle's first floor is CRAZY.

That's like buying a $50k high-end PC while having Dial-Up Internet and then bragging about your 1/47/12 KDA in an online game.

That's not CRAZY, that's just Xellie. LOL Baffles me the courage of that person to even give such reply. The level of delusion is sad.

Quote from: tnznt on Jul 25, 2023, 04:17 PMAlso, it's insane to me that this video was shared to imply any kind of flex lmao. I'm not even attacking you, your playskill, or whatever. But gearing an >>ASSASSIN CROSS<< with that many god items and mvps for you to simply do sit around and do nothing while your guild is doing all the work and then adding a clip of you recalling on a random castle's first floor is CRAZY.

That's like buying a $50k high-end PC while having Dial-Up Internet and then bragging about your 1/47/12 KDA in an online game.

We had 20 megs in guild, what else to do with them?

No flex tho, I could have recalled my guild away from imminent rushes on a 1/1 novice.

Quote from: vrypwrful on Jul 25, 2023, 07:59 PMI'm unable to think of 2 guilds that cheated more than these two.

p2w may be the strongest guild, but the woe's are competitive. This entire thread is a troll post for people to eat up that don't even play the server lol.

I can think of equal level ones tho. How you doing anyway? Can't stand 1x or I'd be there tbh.

Guild cap and getting 2 castles isn't what I call competitive. Nice cope though, play a real server with real guilds you zeny usurer✡️

Quote from: Xellie on Jul 26, 2023, 12:04 PMI can think of equal level ones tho. How you doing anyway? Can't stand 1x or I'd be there tbh.

Good! Woe seasons + guild cap obtainable by many guilds is very nice. Closer to 3x when factoring things like increased sp regen and party bonus. Unfortunately no gear enchants.

Atroce stop s***. Most of the serious woe scene plays on trans, mid rate or higher servers, they won't come to Payon Stories. It doesn't seem that much of a stretch to me there isn't anyone able to reliably beat them in low rate international scene, maybe in some Asian/Latin servers.

As for p2w itself they have a few bad apples in their ranks and are known for toxicity but the wild things they're being accused of like cheating likely isn't the case. It shouldn't discourage anyone from playing the server, most people won't even interact with them unless they WoE or kill MvPs.

Quote from: Xellie on Jul 26, 2023, 12:02 PMWe had 20 megs in guild, what else to do with them?

No flex tho, I could have recalled my guild away from imminent rushes on a 1/1 novice.

Put them all in LKs? That's at least 10 double meg LK that would certainly do way more than a Camera Operator SinX.

Quote from: vrypwrful on Jul 27, 2023, 09:07 PMGood! Woe seasons + guild cap obtainable by many guilds is very nice. Closer to 3x when factoring things like increased sp regen and party bonus. Unfortunately no gear enchants.

Still too slow. I don't have those hours anymore.

(after wasting my time reading a page or 2) damn thats too bad about the greedy gms using bad donations to nuke the server. leave and go onto the next one ig!


i dont really understand the issue here. is it people mad cuz one guild knows the game. how do the other guilds not know the game? pre-re hasn't had anything new in 15 years. it's more or less solved, everyone knows what can be done to do zzz content or the ideal ways to farm yyy thing. is it because guilds don't have people farming s***? like whats the reason for the gap, i dont get it.

Quote from: misterj on Jul 31, 2023, 12:44 PM(after wasting my time reading a page or 2) damn thats too bad about the greedy gms using bad donations to nuke the server. leave and go onto the next one ig!


i dont really understand the issue here. is it people mad cuz one guild knows the game. how do the other guilds not know the game? pre-re hasn't had anything new in 15 years. it's more or less solved, everyone knows what can be done to do zzz content or the ideal ways to farm yyy thing. is it because guilds don't have people farming s***? like whats the reason for the gap, i dont get it.

The server has no donations, there's just a guild named p2w[Pay2Win] but to what I can tell from my encounters with players on the server is most of them enjoy RO for the PvE aspect and are not use to synced team work or fighting for 2hours to get a castle. So what's left is a lot of greenhorns against a guild that has some skill, but as  I stated before when the player count was hitting 900+ during WoE the guild P2W was getting slapped around like scrubs that needed underling guilds to help them 3 v 1 for a chance at holding a castle. Now that the guilds that were beating them got tired of dealing with it and left for other servers you have the green horn guilds against P2W and friends.

Quote from: misterj on Jul 31, 2023, 12:44 PM(after wasting my time reading a page or 2) damn thats too bad about the greedy gms using bad donations to nuke the server. leave and go onto the next one ig!


i dont really understand the issue here. is it people mad cuz one guild knows the game. how do the other guilds not know the game? pre-re hasn't had anything new in 15 years. it's more or less solved, everyone knows what can be done to do zzz content or the ideal ways to farm yyy thing. is it because guilds don't have people farming s***? like whats the reason for the gap, i dont get it.

Funny how someone who made money off the server who had both p2w and TMW are sucking their nuts dry.

Hello, this topic is cringe, but the problem was solved, you can close it now. You are welcome.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yMywpwFgrjw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CSVLZZ44FUk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bp_smea48xU&t=4s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KbusmK8QY34 BONUS

have a good day.

Hello everyone! We would like to give you a quick update on the Payon Stories WoE scene and the improvements that we have made since the original post was created. A lot of things have happened during the last few weeks. Some positive, some negative, but mostly positive and that's great news!

Here are the WoE standings week after week after the OP was first created:


(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1077709118263001108/1130502335450316860/image-11.png)

As you can see, week 5 was more of the same. Our guilds suffered and p2w pretty much ran through us quite easily. This was a couple days after we asked for help from the RO community so it was to be expected that there weren't any significant improvements. p2w ended up having more than double the amount of points compared to rank 1 and 2 combined. They also maintained two castles.


(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1077709118263001108/1132478467443802142/image-20.png)

Here's week 6. We managed to break one of p2w's castles! The downside was that we had to work together, and since we are officially not allowed to work together on Payon Stories, we lost points...  /hmm
During these two weeks, we have had a bunch of new players willing to help us both from inside and outside our server. Things were looking very good.


(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1077709118263001108/1135266323237179525/image-17.png)

Here's week 7 from last Saturday. WE DID IT. WE FINALLY BROKE THEIR ECONOMY. It literally took us 40 minutes of fighting and a lot of teamwork and preparation, but we did it. We broke their most important castle and managed to keep them out. It truly was very difficult, but we just came together with a common goal and finally managed to slay the giant if you will. Unfortunately as you can see, we again lost a lot of points due to penalties for our teamwork. But it was worth it!

We would like to thank everyone who helped us in the last two WoE's, especially the people who recently joined us from outside of Payon Stories! We can't even describe how grateful we are to you all. Let's hope this is the start of a grand new beginning and a fairer WoE for us all. Thank you!  /lv  /lv  /lv 



Btw, they (p2w) are making fun of us for having to work together to beat them. It was quite funny seeing them angry and upset for the first time since the start of the server.  /gg
Some examples below:

(https://i.imgur.com/MalM7RU.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/8KN1dyu.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/9RBPMWP.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/nX8AicX.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/du1vjl2.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/wsKN2wK.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/zZACepL.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/LeObYFm.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/3fhyi5l.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/EKGRFc8.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/az0j54k.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/WqZffHw.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/fN4DRk6.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/exDq8tq.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/kpK9P2k.png)

It's good to dish out some much earned karma! Of course we kept the teasing to a minimum and we've tried to be respectful even though it was very tempting to say some NOT so friendly things to them. Graceful in defeat and victory, that's how it should be.  /no1

Like I said, they wouldn't last in trans woe.

It's all bark no bite for these people.

Quote from: Raïner on Aug 01, 2023, 11:37 PMQuite funny to see the duality of community staffs that let p2w's toxicity roam free with no restriction  /heh

Their defense/excuse about this is that "all this happens on an unaffiliated Discord server, not in the server's official Discord server!", which is completely s*** since the days of OathRO, as there are Payon Stories GMs and CMs as moderators and active users within this "unaffiliated Discord" helping spreading toxicity.

Quote from: Raïner on Aug 01, 2023, 11:37 PMmeanwhile players that retaliate against toxic playstyle have to follow rules and regulations in order to, correctly respond and report their toxic behavior  /...

Precisely my experience with this server. P2w members were running rampant on their toxicity on the official server discord at the time, with all of the CMs protecting them, and if you realiated them with the same level of toxicity, the CMs would straight out ban you from the discord and mute or temp ban you in-game if they knew your in-game accounts. s*** show of a server. They learned nothing since Oath days and it's widely known at this point the server's staff direct association with p2w guild and backing their antics up.

Quote from: shakaw_p2w_killer on Aug 01, 2023, 10:06 AMhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bp_smea48xU&t=4s
have a good day.

1. Posts video using autopot
2. Gets himself and guild's potter account banned
3. Have a good day.

Quote from: 2k2 on Aug 02, 2023, 12:44 PMThey learned nothing since Oath days and it's widely known at this point the server's staff direct association with p2w guild and backing their antics up.

p2w has zero affiliation with payon stories staff, cool conspiracy theory though!

Quote from: vrypwrful on Aug 02, 2023, 12:54 PMp2w has zero affiliation with payon stories staff, cool conspiracy theory though!

No conspiracy at all, you just admitted on the other reply that the player/guild that put you on your place got banned for something much less worse than what p2w has been doing since the very beginning of the server, with ZERO bans LOL.

The server is dead and hasn't grown since its start with ~300 online playercount, with the same stupid players still and guilds because as soon as people see the association between this toxic clown guild and the server staff, they nope out immediately.

Quote from: betwixtbetween on Aug 01, 2023, 01:45 AMFunny how someone who made money off the server who had both p2w and TMW are sucking their nuts dry.

i cannot name a single person in p2w or tmw, it probably goes both ways. any server i was part of i just did to help friends and was for 0 personal profit, run strictly because guilds wanted somewhere to woe on.
secondly, this server uses trans mechanics with reverted traps and nothing else. it's effectively just trans woe for people with 3rd world pcs.

Quote from: Shuchou on Aug 02, 2023, 01:51 PMThats funny coming from the guy that told staff members to kill themselves or calling them fa--its all the time, not to mention how you would talk about raping sohees to death and keep going after they've died [On global chat]. Pretty much a demon calling a nun a sinner. I still have no clue why they gave you so many chances.

the relationship between staff and all players should by nature be antagonistic.

We would appreciate it if people stopped posting conspiracy theories and porno of the furry kind in our Payon Stories community thread. Perhaps a mod could remove that.

There is no Admin/GM corruption in Payon Stories.

Cheaters get banned if they are caught.

RMT probably exists, but everyone is trying their hardest to catch these criminals.

There is little to zero tolerance for bad language on the Payon Stories server and discord.

Everyone who says differently is simply being a hater and/or wishes for the server's downfall. It's not nice.  /swt


Edit: Thanks mod-person.  /no1

Is this the same p2w from iRO?

Quote from: Lunalepsy on Sep 30, 2023, 08:52 AMIs this the same p2w from iRO?

It's the same guild yes.

Also small update on the WoE situation on our server... We have lost. p2w pretty much won everything. Our alliance has lost several guilds due to getting caught and banned for cheating and some just giving up and quitting. We tried really hard to turn the situation around, but it wasn't meant to be. We'd still like to thank everyone for their help and support over the last 6 months or so! It was fun while it lasted.

Unfortunately Payon Stories is now a p2w dominated server and that's that.

Peace

I like Payon Stories, I have great respect for most of the staff there, I've had good and bad times with them from when everything was fine with OathRO, then come the OathKepper problem and then PS server.
They are good people and are trying their best to improve the server state and although I am no longer affiliated with the staff and stopped playing PS many months ago, I still cheer for them BUT I admit that this extreme competitiveness was one of several small reasons that made me leave the server, since FOR ME, the small ones have together into a big one, but as said before in the post, this is somewhat expected in a low-rate WOE scenario?

As a low-rate, only those who are more dedicated/have more time to play have more impact in WOE than guilds that don't, fuse this with the public fact of RMT between guilds makes the woe scenario a competitive hell and with monetary value. Dude, I spent weeks and dozens of hours of my life creating maps and even totally custom MVP and when it was released I saw some guilds rushing the entire background, exploiting MVP weaknesses and practically monopolizing it a few days later, not letting anyone else even see the MVP alive.
And this was the same for other custom content that I just wanted people to enjoy without all the competitiveness that comes from WOE, so I think you guys get the point. I know that not everyone acts this way, but unfortunately this kind of behavior is common on low-rate servers where WOE is prominent and, unfortunately, unhealthy for me and for so many other people who have identified with what I've written.

Quote from: Lunalepsy on Sep 30, 2023, 08:52 AMIs this the same p2w from iRO?

Yes. Aaron's bunch of clowns and weirdos. iro scrubs, p2w etc. Doing the very same thing they do in every server, then crying at how the RO community is dying or becoming more and more casual.

Quote from: Ayami on Oct 02, 2023, 11:22 AMI like Payon Stories

Are you the same Ayami that was a major part of Oath's implosion? The one who was aggressively protecting Oath, their antics and the general corruption and problems in that server?

The problems you talked about are not exclusively tied to the WoE or competitive scene, it's more of a problem with toxicity and the inability of the server's staff to handle it, or in some cases, directly help/protect the toxic side instead of punishing them, which is what happened in Payon Stories and what always happened in servers like Talon Tales. Server staff protecting toxic players, protecting their RMT schemes and such is what kills the server, not WoE or overall competitive scene.

Take Origins as an example, the server had a very competitive PvE scene and the WoE scene was alright, with lots of old guilds/groups competing for years, some dating back from official servers, and the toxicity there wasn't blatant or everywhere (besides the usual "ggnoobs" or sending emoticons upon winning) because the staff was actively punishing it and enforcing their rules, without protecting specific individuals or entire groups. Toxicity is dominant only on servers where the staff doesn't give a f***. Servers where the staff actually act like staff, toxicity is the least of the problems.

Payon Stories had a solid community (excluding p2w group, where if they were banned from the start, the server would be in a much better place right now) and a solid shot at succeeding after the fiasco that OathRO was, but bad decisions alongside with stupid, useless and corrupt GMs/Moderators is what slowly killed/is killing the server.

Quote from: 2k2 on Oct 02, 2023, 04:25 PMYes. Aaron's bunch of clowns and weirdos. iro scrubs, p2w etc. Doing the very same thing they do in every server, then crying at how the RO community is dying or becoming more and more casual.
Are you the same Ayami that was a major part of Oath's implosion? The one who was aggressively protecting Oath, their antics and the general corruption and problems in that server?

The problems you talked about are not exclusively tied to the WoE or competitive scene, it's more of a problem with toxicity and the inability of the server's staff to handle it, or in some cases, directly help/protect the toxic side instead of punishing them, which is what happened in Payon Stories and what always happened in servers like Talon Tales. Server staff protecting toxic players, protecting their RMT schemes and such is what kills the server, not WoE or overall competitive scene.

Take Origins as an example, the server had a very competitive PvE scene and the WoE scene was alright, with lots of old guilds/groups competing for years, some dating back from official servers, and the toxicity there wasn't blatant or everywhere (besides the usual "ggnoobs" or sending emoticons upon winning) because the staff was actively punishing it and enforcing their rules, without protecting specific individuals or entire groups. Toxicity is dominant only on servers where the staff doesn't give a f***. Servers where the staff actually act like staff, toxicity is the least of the problems.

Payon Stories had a solid community (excluding p2w group, where if they were banned from the start, the server would be in a much better place right now) and a solid shot at succeeding after the fiasco that OathRO was, but bad decisions alongside with stupid, useless and corrupt GMs/Moderators is what slowly killed/is killing the server.

Staff can only work with what they're reported with - for the most part. Obviously they can do their own sleuthing with logs and the like but player reports is the major thing that nails people who break the rules.


It was always strange to me how everyone at my time as being a CM lead on PS said that P2W engages in RMT and the like, or other kinds of cheating on the server, but nobody in my time with being on staff had ever reported anything about such claims despite it apparently being so blatantly obvious that "everyone" knows and despite nobody coming forward to make a case. There was literally nothing more than "I can't prove anything but trust me bro".
...To which some of the people even making those claims were caught cheating or, even more ironically, RMT themselves.

Either they're extremely good at hiding it to the point they can even obfuscate it from the servers' logs (which literally tracks everything, but it is still possible by being smart and patient with the trading), or people are just angry that they played better than them and are throwing accusations like a lot of people in online games stereo-typically do when they're upset at someone and don't want to take responsibility for their own mistakes.


I'm not sure just banning people en'masse for either no reason other than "you were in this guild in another server" or mere assumptions with no actual evidence (not even circumstantial evidence) by a loud crowd of people, many who would benefit from those specific peoples' removal, is a good look for the server either, and would be against the vision of Payon Stories as a whole to begin with.

Quote from: 2k2 on Oct 02, 2023, 04:25 PMThe problems you talked about are not exclusively tied to the WoE or competitive scene, it's more of a problem with toxicity and the inability of the server's staff to handle it, or in some cases, directly help/protect the toxic side instead of punishing them, which is what happened in Payon Stories and what always happened in servers like Talon Tales. Server staff protecting toxic players, protecting their RMT schemes and such is what kills the server, not WoE or overall competitive scene.

... all while labeling WoE players as a whole toxic scum, a view that was not exclusive to Ayami; as if only WoE players were capable of crossing certain lines, unlike PvM players, casuals and such who are basically cherubim. Ironic, considering how it all turned out.

That said, I don't think all of them were protected (as in, deliberately shielded from punishment); I was witness to some aggression and harassment, sometimes completely unjustified (or coming from unknown alts), some of them even being directed at me. Some of them were reported; none of them faced any sort of punishment. Toxicity becomes recurrent not just due to staff corruption but also lack of punishment. It doesn't matter if it's just a one day ban: if you know they actually enforce it, you'll think twice. In short, things got out of control because they did jack. They were spineless. Which leads me to this:

Quote from: Sairek Ceareste on Oct 02, 2023, 06:31 PMIt was always strange to me how everyone at my time as being a CM lead on PS said that P2W engages in RMT and the like, or other kinds of cheating on the server, but nobody in my time with being on staff had ever reported anything about such claims despite it apparently being so blatantly obvious that "everyone" knows and despite nobody coming forward to make a case. There was literally nothing more than "I can't prove anything but trust me bro".
...To which some of the people even making those claims were caught cheating or, even more ironically, RMT themselves.

Either they're extremely good at hiding it to the point they can even obfuscate it from the servers' logs (which literally tracks everything, but it is still possible by being smart and patient with the trading), or people are just angry that they played better than them and are throwing accusations like a lot of people in online games stereo-typically do when they're upset at someone and don't want to take responsibility for their own mistakes.

People won't report things that they know the staff is likely to not investigate (and punish) properly. To some, the simple fact they're allowed in shows that either the staff is composed of inexperienced people who didn't do their homework or they're in it with them; even if it appears unfair to think such, the conclusion either way is "why bother." Personally, that you even entertain the idea that they might be innocent just because some accusers were caught cheating, as if life is a black-and-white board where one such fact confirms their innocence, in spite of loud concerns about them, tells me that it's the former: inexperienced, perhaps even childish (in behavior or in perspective) people in charge. At any rate, to some, their presence alone is enough to dissuade them from joining the server.

Quote from: Metan on Oct 02, 2023, 09:10 PM... all while labeling WoE players as a whole toxic scum, a view that was not exclusive to Ayami; as if only WoE players were capable of crossing certain lines, unlike PvM players, casuals and such who are basically cherubim. Ironic, considering how it all turned out.

That said, I don't think all of them were protected (as in, deliberately shielded from punishment); I was witness to some aggression and harassment, sometimes completely unjustified (or coming from unknown alts), some of them even being directed at me. Some of them were reported; none of them faced any sort of punishment. Toxicity becomes recurrent not just due to staff corruption but also lack of punishment. It doesn't matter if it's just a one day ban: if you know they actually enforce it, you'll think twice. In short, things got out of control because they did jack. They were spineless. Which leads me to this:
People won't report things that they know the staff is likely to not investigate (and punish) properly. To some, the simple fact they're allowed in shows that either the staff is composed of inexperienced people who didn't do their homework or they're in it with them; even if it appears unfair to think such, the conclusion either way is "why bother." Personally, that you even entertain the idea that they might be innocent just because some accusers were caught cheating, as if life is a black-and-white board where one such fact confirms their innocence, in spite of loud concerns about them, tells me that it's the former: inexperienced, perhaps even childish (in behavior or in perspective) people in charge. At any rate, to some, their presence alone is enough to dissuade them from joining the server.

P2W members report things of people clearly breaking the rules > those people get banned
People accuse P2W members of breaking rules but don't report them >  /?

For what it's worth, staff doesn't often regulate private chats such as party chat since players can moderate them themselves. Only at times where infractions are egregious. Calling each other poopy heads in party chat when either or can leave the party (or party leader can kick) is a waste of staffs' time when they're obviously understaffed and behind on everything else as it is already (assassin rework when).
This isn't black and white though. Some people did report when some P2W members acted out of line, and they were properly punished, just like anyone else who broke the rules.

At the end of the day, I (and rest of staff) based rulings via factual things that were in front of us. I had my own opinions of course, but that doesn't mean anything, especially when told to do my role a specific way for integrity and unbiased sakes. If I did it any other way, then it really would be biased staff, because then that's ruling based on feelings or ruling based on peer pressure (peers who have their own biases) rather than hard data evidence (like a replay) that can be actually analyzed down to each individual frame.

Either way, people who still make the 'biased staff' claim are ignoring the fact that staff has rotated so much that not a single person on the moderation team are even the same people anymore almost twice over. There's been... what, 30 staff members if you include event staff? Is every single person in cahoots with P2W or something and not a single person has snitched yet?


Speaking of me, I indeed didn't have any idea who P2W was starting back in OathRO nor the apparently infamy they have. So no, I didn't do my homework; and I never did something like CMing before. So yes, you kind of described me pretty well. /heh
Which is why I'm pretty sure it's not staff being biased (and able to not let me in about their devious plan to let P2W dominate the server) or are giving p2w any special favors. A bunch of staff are/were just like me. Inexperienced and frankly, pretty incompetent (we were in my opinion). I literally started off with 0 hours of experience, in a leadership position, when I am the opposite of a leader-type person when I wanted to be writing content for the server instead. Hindsight is 20/20 but it's pretty obvious to see why that lead to problems right away, on top of the idea of the server expected to be small and became literally 10x bigger than expected.


Anyway, to be clear: I'm not trying to say that I don't see any merit behind wanting to pre-ban or simply refuse service to a specific infamous group; A privately owned server can ultimately do whatever they want at the end of the day.
My main concern however is with blacklisting an entire guild of people, rather than just specific individuals who are proven to be a problem. I wouldn't want to join a server like that personally where I could be punished before even joining the server because someone else I know or played with before in another time and place did a bad thing.

Quote from: Metan on Oct 02, 2023, 09:10 PMWhich leads me to this:
People won't report things that they know the staff is likely to not investigate (and punish) properly.

How would people know that the staff doesn't do anything if they never tried even once?

Also, that the guild members have a "rude style" when it comes to talking is obvious even to me from just some messages I saw on here. And you can argue whether that should be bannable or not.

But reporting for RMTing is a completely different topic. If nobody ever reports that and people just claim so in public chats, I personally would assume those claims are probably fake and done by people who just don't like them.

------------

To be honest keeping a good WoE balance on low rate servers is nearly impossible without the GMs cheating to help the weaker guilds. It doesn't require GMs cheating for one guild to dominate because the way RO is designed (rewarding victories with more power) this is how it will always end up, no RMT or GMs creating MVP items out of thin air required.

Quote from: Sairek Ceareste on Oct 03, 2023, 01:36 AMSpeaking of me, I indeed didn't have any idea who P2W was starting back in OathRO nor the apparently infamy they have. So no, I didn't do my homework; and I never did something like CMing before. So yes, you kind of described me pretty well. /heh
Which is why I'm pretty sure it's not staff being biased (and able to not let me in about their devious plan to let P2W dominate the server) or are giving p2w any special favors. A bunch of staff are/were just like me. Inexperienced and frankly, pretty incompetent (we were in my opinion). I literally started off with 0 hours of experience, in a leadership position, when I am the opposite of a leader-type person when I wanted to be writing content for the server instead. Hindsight is 20/20 but it's pretty obvious to see why that lead to problems right away, on top of the idea of the server expected to be small and became literally 10x bigger than expected.

Just to be clear, I'm referring to PS exclusively, because stating the same about Oath staff would be extremely dishonest of me. I remember some staff member back then (I think it was Oath, actually) stating on Discord that you'd planned things based on a small player base, and suddenly your server exploded in popularity and it was really hard to keep up, and I think it's a legitimate explanation.

I don't think the same should apply to PS, however, because not only you guys did have a second chance to improve on your staff knowledge, after taking a breather from all that had happened, but also you pretty much had to, because precedents were set. If we're to take anything from Reborn is that, taking it all with a grain of salt, RMTers can and will fool you guys and you won't even suspect it. The way I see it, you caught a couple small fish by the surface, but not the big boys in the depths.

Quote from: Sairek Ceareste on Oct 03, 2023, 01:36 AMAnyway, to be clear: I'm not trying to say that I don't see any merit behind wanting to pre-ban or simply refuse service to a specific infamous group; A privately owned server can ultimately do whatever they want at the end of the day.
My main concern however is with blacklisting an entire guild of people, rather than just specific individuals who are proven to be a problem. I wouldn't want to join a server like that personally where I could be punished before even joining the server because someone else I know or played with before in another time and place did a bad thing.

Ehh, that only makes sense if you assume the guild as a whole isn't aware of each other's shortcomings, and wouldn't allow themselves to be associated with them. Not every guild is like that, and if they're keeping such people in their ranks regardless, they're, more likely than not, not one of these.

Quote from: Playtester on Oct 03, 2023, 04:02 AMHow would people know that the staff doesn't do anything if they never tried even once?

Also, that the guild members have a "rude style" when it comes to talking is obvious even to me from just some messages I saw on here. And you can argue whether that should be bannable or not.

But reporting for RMTing is a completely different topic. If nobody ever reports that and people just claim so in public chats, I personally would assume those claims are probably fake and done by people who just don't like them.

And how exactly are they going to report? Where would the evidence come from? Note that even if I know this guy has been banned before by RMT in one or more servers, not every GM or admin (to not say none of them) will make all their evidences public, they'll issue bans, announce them, and that's that; and I'm not going to keep a ban collage of every single RMTer or botter out there just to present it as proof to an imaginary server I might play in the future. I don't think I'm alone in that regard. Moreover, it's reasonable to think that RMTers with half a brain will be discreet about their practices. I won't be able to prove anything unless said person is hopelessly stupid, and that's not something to count on. Therefore, all that's left is warn the staff that so and so have a record, then leave it to them.

Sairek, you fail to realize that nobody has any concern about p2w "dominating" the server. OP was exposed on reddit by being a p2w member doing this kind of thread just to draw attention to this guild and make them look big/accomplished. Nobody gives a f*** about this guild since they have been around for a good time and were always pretty bad and clowns, always avoiding competing against actual guilds and playing on small casual low-rate servers only, since they're the type of people to play RO for 18h/day. Payon Stories level is at most laughable and it's a casual server, which is exactly the type of server that guild plays on, because everytime they played on a legit competitive server, they were stomped hard.

People WERE reporting every kind of bad things in your server with not only screenshots and videos, but also @request staff immedietaly to check on bots and the staff still didn't do s*** about it. People were even forcing actions/reaction on them to show and prove they were bots yet the response from the staff was simply "they're not bots!" or "we're going to further investigate" while the bot was still there, playing 24h a day for weeks, lol.

And how can you say there was never any bias towards p2w when during the few weeks I played there, the discord was a dumpster fire and cesspool of toxicity and corruption because the staff had the bright idea of creating something called "PvM Council" where a selected group of players would have direct decisions on the server's changes, balance and future, and all of these selected players were from p2w guild, which obviously caused an uphoar in the community. Members from this guild were trash talking and bashing people on discord 24/7, in front of the staff and CMs with no punishment, and when people attacked them back with the same wording, the staff banned the victims instead, which then made p2w members laugh and mock the community even more. Worst part of all this was when A LOT of people revolted and forced the staff to do things and they actually banned like 1 or 2 players (out of 20+) of that guild and they created an "unaffiliated community discord" (GMs/CMs of Payon Stories were in this discord server in position of power/moderation btw, so they were aware of everything happening/being said there and also were part of it) where they were doing racist, sexist, mysogynist, homofobic attacks and even doxxing players of opposite guilds/groups in PS community, the staff was well aware of it and who was it, yet they refused to act/ban them in-game simply because it "happened on an unaffiliated discord, we have no control of what happens there", but you do know what happens there and who are the people, you just refused to act because of who they are.

Quote from: Playtester on Oct 03, 2023, 04:02 AMHow would people know that the staff doesn't do anything if they never tried even once?

People did. Tirelessly for a long time. The staff just didn't gave a f*** about it. Payon Stories is heavily botted (was, at least, during the time I played, and this is the main reason the server's economy is beyond f*** too), most stablished players or players from the big guilds there multiclient, the staff is aware about it and didn't do anything, but go you, a newly-joined casual loner multiclient > instant ban.

Quote from: Playtester on Oct 03, 2023, 04:02 AMAlso, that the guild members have a "rude style" when it comes to talking is obvious even to me from just some messages I saw on here. And you can argue whether that should be bannable or not.

But reporting for RMTing is a completely different topic. If nobody ever reports that and people just claim so in public chats, I personally would assume those claims are probably fake and done by people who just don't like them.
required.

It's nothing about the "rude style" way of addressing. They're antisocial tryhards that don't live outside of this game, so that's what you expect from such bunch.

Problem is when they go beyond the game and personally attack other people with racism, homophobia, sexism and even further beyond with doxxing/publicly sharing real information of other players, such as social media profiles, pictures, addresses etc. Payon Stories' staff was aware of this, witnessed this and were also part of this since they had positions of power in the "unaffiliated discord server" they were doing this after they got banned from PS' discord.

RMT is not as hard to prove as server's staff claim. There are servers MUCH bigger and valuable than PS with little-to-no RMT because the staff knows what to do and how to do. Also the solution is simple: it's widely known who are the RMTers in the RO community, why is it such a problem to prevent/not allow such people joining your server? If they have the history of RMTing in every single server they play on (like Reborn/p2w guild), why do you think they will act any different in your server? Lmao, that's why PS community just gave up on it, since it was proven in OathRO that the staff was directly involved in the RMT scheme, people knowing Reborn is still playing PS, they instantly assume the staff is once again working with him.

Quote from: Playtester on Oct 03, 2023, 04:02 AMTo be honest keeping a good WoE balance on low rate servers is nearly impossible without the GMs cheating to help the weaker guilds. It doesn't require GMs cheating for one guild to dominate because the way RO is designed (rewarding victories with more power) this is how it will always end up, no RMT or GMs creating MVP items out of thin air required.

No one in that community ever complained about WoE balance between guilds. People are more than fine with winning or losing. OP is a known troll spread misinformation and was exposed on the many threads they created on reddit as someone from p2w doing this just to make the guild look good/big. Nobody in the community/other guilds shared any feeling with any of the information in these troll threads or backed it, so don't assume people in the server made any complaints about WoE balance etc.

The problem was and always will be at how this guild has been hurting the server since Oath's day in many different ways, including actual real life crime ways, but the staff still pretends nothing happens and keeps with s*** claims like "we're inexperienced, we don't know what we do!". RMTing, botting, multiclienting, cheating, doxxing etc were things players from this guild has always done and people got tired of reporting, but the only people that would get banned doing these were non-p2w players. And dare you to insist in a report with irrefutable evidence: the staff would ban you instead, lol.

Quote from: Sairek Ceareste on Oct 03, 2023, 01:36 AMAnyway, to be clear: I'm not trying to say that I don't see any merit behind wanting to pre-ban or simply refuse service to a specific infamous group; A privately owned server can ultimately do whatever they want at the end of the day.
My main concern however is with blacklisting an entire guild of people, rather than just specific individuals who are proven to be a problem. I wouldn't want to join a server like that personally where I could be punished before even joining the server because someone else I know or played with before in another time and place did a bad thing.

And what's the problem in that? If you know this specific guild RMTs (and break other rules) in every single server they play, how the f*** can you think it will be any different in your server? f***, they did it in the previous version of this same server, so tell me, what's the problem of protecting the server from future problems before it even become a problem?

And regarding banning other people for just associating with them: they're aware of who they are and what they do, they made the choice of playing with them, didn't they? So why are you being so sympathetic with people with such bad intentions? Nobody has a gun on their head forcing them to play with these desperate freaks. Why don't you use your sympathy to sympathize with legit players playing by the rules and being a good asset for your community? You literally killed your server because you decided a bunch of 15-20 weirdos are more important than the 500+ players in the community (judging by the server numbers these days vs when I played it at the beginning).

Anyway, for a person constantly claiming you have nothing to do with the server anymore, you really do work hard to protect their antics and corruption. If you only applied this hard work with fairness during the time you were CM, perhaps the server would be thriving right now, but alas.

Quote from: 2k2 on Oct 02, 2023, 04:25 PMAre you the same Ayami that was a major part of Oath's implosion? The one who was aggressively protecting Oath, their antics and the general corruption and problems in that server?

Don't point fingers if you don't know what happened internally, in my eyes Oath was was different from what he became a few days later, deleting our entire database and refunding a sum he gave us so that the server could continue for a while, literally two stabs in the back in a few hours. Anyway, that's in the past and it doesn't matter anymore, I don't look back, looking to past is something that only those who are bored with life do, the important thing is not to commit them again.

Anyway, I've no longer been linked to PayonStories for almost a year, I don't know what's going on there anymore and my previous post was more of my own experience with the server and the staff, I still have respect for people like Dastgir who still maintain the server even though they're not forced to and even after Oath's problem.

Anyway, I hope they solve this problem before the server dies, I don't have all the context/details as I've been away from PS for a while but, just as I did with Talon and Nova, I hope they maneged things around and solve it.
Because regardless of whether it's a good or bad server, as someone who does work and commissions for RO servers it's always sad to see all that work just go away in perspective of development.

Huh, so it was like that. There are still bits and pieces left in their discord about that PvM council and some other stuff, and reading through some of the discussions made back then had me mixed between giggling and snorting. Damn shame that I gave the staff the benefit of doubt, thinking it could've just been sheer incompetency, born from inexperience. Ah well.

Quote from: Metan on Oct 03, 2023, 07:01 PMHuh, so it was like that. There are still bits and pieces left in their discord about that PvM council and some other stuff, and reading through some of the discussions made back then had me mixed between giggling and snorting. Damn shame that I gave the staff the benefit of doubt, thinking it could've just been sheer incompetency, born from inexperience. Ah well.

Sadly, the really bad/incriminating stuff were quickly deleted and most of the people who fought against the public corruption happening during that time got banned from discord and some in-game (the ones posting vide evidence of botting and the staff protecting said bots), also the discussions where p2w members went rampant with toxicity, trash talk and doxx (on PS discord, before they created the ""unaffiliated" discord with PS staff as moderators") were mostly in discord forum threads, when people were creating side discussions to talk about the Council stuff and question the staff on why they chose people from that group alone and why they were allowing them to break rules, doxx and act toxic in general with no punishment. After some threads where things got heated and people started to personally attack p2w members back, Payon Stories staff banned these people while still allowing p2w members to stay there, until people bashed them for this and they decided to ban only 2 of their discord dummy accounts.

Server is just garbage and was a clusterf*ck of incompetency and corruption of the server's admin, staff, CMs/moderators and wave after wave of the most stupid decisions ever. Players kept giving them lots of chances (considering after what happened to OathRO, it was surprising people still trusted that team at all) but they continued to make mistakes so terrible it's nearly impossible to believe how dumb they could be. And that's why at some point (maybe they still think this?) people were speculating if some of the server's staff were in p2w, which then answers a lot of the questions.

Quote from: 2k2 on Oct 03, 2023, 08:51 PMServer is just garbage and was a clusterf*ck of incompetency and corruption of the server's admin, staff, CMs/moderators and wave after wave of the most stupid decisions ever. Players kept giving them lots of chances (considering after what happened to OathRO, it was surprising people still trusted that team at all) but they continued to make mistakes so terrible it's nearly impossible to believe how dumb they could be. And that's why at some point (maybe they still think this?) people were speculating if some of the server's staff were in p2w, which then answers a lot of the questions.

Regardless of corruption allegations, I think the staff incompetency is the thing I find most damning. It's really quite sad that players will play servers where the staff team straight up copied a popular server, that's given little to no updates, and then defend it to the ends of the Earth. The truth is that the current head (Dastgir) has no vision for the server and none of his minions do either. The server is directionless and has no creative lead. Especially with Oathkeeper and Ayami gone, despite how crazy they may be, it's obvious the successor is worse.

Quote from: 2k2 on Oct 03, 2023, 08:51 PMSadly, the really bad/incriminating stuff were quickly deleted and most of the people who fought against the public corruption happening during that time got banned from discord and some in-game (the ones posting vide evidence of botting and the staff protecting said bots), also the discussions where p2w members went rampant with toxicity, trash talk and doxx (on PS discord, before they created the ""unaffiliated" discord with PS staff as moderators") were mostly in discord forum threads, when people were creating side discussions to talk about the Council stuff and question the staff on why they chose people from that group alone and why they were allowing them to break rules, doxx and act toxic in general with no punishment. After some threads where things got heated and people started to personally attack p2w members back, Payon Stories staff banned these people while still allowing p2w members to stay there, until people bashed them for this and they decided to ban only 2 of their discord dummy accounts.

Makes sense. I did notice some conversations had gaps I couldn't quite fill, but also that there was indeed some animosity about those councils and some other subjects. Thanks for the info.

Quote from: ForgotMyOldAccount on Oct 03, 2023, 09:36 PMThe truth is that the current head (Dastgir) has no vision for the server and none of his minions do either. The server is directionless and has no creative lead. Especially with Oathkeeper and Ayami gone, despite how crazy they may be, it's obvious the successor is worse.

It's true. One of the things I caught up with was some discussion about one of their custom dungeons, Poring Digsite, and how they had nerfed the placed to the ground, from nerfing great cards down to garbage tier to reducing spawn numbers, adding absurd spawn timers and adding Bombrings (???) as an anti-bot measure (including some dude who lost his no-death bonuses on SN due to teleporting and walking next to an exploding Bombring. Poor guy).

The latter might not seem an issue, but part of their mission in OathRO was making more maps viable to play, which included (and they were explicit about it) removing anti-bot monsters, as not only those did not stop real botters who just adapted their builds to handle or avoid them, but also made everyone else's lives miserable: Mimics, Hunter Flies, Ridewords, Cramps, Pests, etc., in maps where they did not belong. Most of these were removed, and life was great.

It goes to show that, to top it all, they've been slowly losing grasp of what made their server worth it, before the nuke. In hindsight, I'm glad I didn't bother playing in PS, even if my biggest reason was a lack of will to grind from scratch in 1x rates, again.

Quote from: Iamyourfriend on Oct 03, 2023, 11:53 PMTo quote the great and powerful Atroce

You mean the same "great and powerful" Atroce who LARPed as a PS GM to spam fake ads and claim other things (https://www.reddit.com/r/RagnarokOnline/comments/15n04d3/a_quick_rundown_of_payon_stories_advertisement/) on Reddit? Hilarious stuff. I wonder who's behind this post...

I remember when OathRO was in infancy and I dared to make criticism of some of their s*** changes LMAO their protected top players came to s*** on me with all sort of attacks and insults and all it took is for me to defend myself once for them to block me from their discord.

That was all it took for me to see that the administrators of this server were a bunch of greedy f*** that were obviously giving privileges to certain people and said people were calling the shots of the server, so not only they were low IQ with their bad changes but also were not trust worthy,

And every step of the way I have been proven right about the staff of this server.

Reasons to not play on this shi*hole server:

• Their changes are low IQ
• Corrupt staff
• Their big dogs call the shots, it is the typical server to satisfy a big guild or group of guilds
• Likely a lot of RMT is happening in the background
• Previous owner outright cheated
• Previous owner was linked to RMT
• Botting is permited to their big guild spenders
• Likely they allow multi clienting to their big guilds
• They already once "wiped" the server and "lost" all the data of it, full incompetence
• Full of leftie cultural marxists commies
• Reborn plays there, the most toxic player ever spawned in the private server scene, RMT scammer and abusive piece of garbage, in fact this is all you need to know, if any administrator is willing to put up with this human garbage you know that administration has ZERO INTEGRITY. Previous owner was linked with this demon in a RMT scheeme.
• Bonus: previous owner was multiple vaccinated and almost dies because of it, just so you know what type of desicion making is happening on this server.

If you don't know who Reborn is look here: https://forum.ratemyserver.net/server-discussion/if-you-have-the-means-never-allow-this-guy-reborn-and-his-friends-on-your-server/

Quote from: Iamyourfriend on Oct 03, 2023, 11:53 PMFrom a former PS staff member who wishes to be left nameless

Weird. Weird post as well. But thanks for confirming what everyone in PS community were claiming yet the staff kept refusing: there were/are p2w players as Payon Stories staff.

Quote from: Metan on Oct 04, 2023, 09:04 AMYou mean the same "great and powerful" Atroce who LARPed as a PS GM to spam fake ads and claim other things (https://www.reddit.com/r/RagnarokOnline/comments/15n04d3/a_quick_rundown_of_payon_stories_advertisement/) on Reddit? Hilarious stuff. I wonder who's behind this post...

This guy is such a lost cause I feel pity for them. He's been trying hard with these rage bait threads here and on RMS yet people just laugh of their face lol.

Nova = u/ROenjoyer = Atroce

Quote from: Kushiro on Oct 04, 2023, 09:58 AMReasons to not play on this shi*hole server:

Reborn plays there, the most toxic player ever spawned in the private server scene, RMT scammer and abusive piece of garbage, in fact this is all you need to know, if any administrator is willing to put up with this human garbage you know that administration has ZERO INTEGRITY. Previous owner was linked with this demon in a RMT scheeme.

If you don't know who Reborn is look here: https://forum.ratemyserver.net/server-discussion/if-you-have-the-means-never-allow-this-guy-reborn-and-his-friends-on-your-server/

This is enough reason to fully avoid (or quit, if you're still playing there) this server and server owners out there should take note and insta ban this trash from your server at first sight without waiting for anything, or by the time you have a legitimate reason to ban them, it will be too late and the damage will already be done.

When a player has a LONG history of being a piece of trash, cheater and RMTer, don't wait for a f*** up, just ban on sight.

Quote from: Iamyourfriend on Oct 03, 2023, 11:53 PMFrom a former PS staff member who wishes to be left nameless, but will undoubtedly be accused of being in p2w after this message  8)

2k2 does a lot of typing on a forum people barely read to make baseless accusations about a guild that has clearly hurt they/them and a person that is better than video games than they/them are.  Somewhere there is grass waiting for you to touch and I do hope you find it.  8)

@yc - when I made this account just now there were some rules about not making accusations and false claims that are pretty damning.  Like doxxing for instance?  And if they arent provided what then?  GASP  8)

To quote the great and powerful Atroce, where are the receipts from this wild discord where doxxing runs rampant?  8)

Maybe we should just get Reborn in here for a 60 minutes interview since you guys can't seem to get enough  :D

XoXo Gossipgirl

Cringe, though plausible considering PS has hiring posts every other month or so. They really take anyone they can get and then proceed to do nothing with their talents.

Quote from: Metan on Oct 03, 2023, 11:38 PMMakes sense. I did notice some conversations had gaps I couldn't quite fill, but also that there was indeed some animosity about those councils and some other subjects. Thanks for the info.
It's true. One of the things I caught up with was some discussion about one of their custom dungeons, Poring Digsite, and how they had nerfed the placed to the ground, from nerfing great cards down to garbage tier to reducing spawn numbers, adding absurd spawn timers and adding Bombrings (???) as an anti-bot measure (including some dude who lost his no-death bonuses on SN due to teleporting and walking next to an exploding Bombring. Poor guy).

The latter might not seem an issue, but part of their mission in OathRO was making more maps viable to play, which included (and they were explicit about it) removing anti-bot monsters, as not only those did not stop real botters who just adapted their builds to handle or avoid them, but also made everyone else's lives miserable: Mimics, Hunter Flies, Ridewords, Cramps, Pests, etc., in maps where they did not belong. Most of these were removed, and life was great.

It goes to show that, to top it all, they've been slowly losing grasp of what made their server worth it, before the nuke. In hindsight, I'm glad I didn't bother playing in PS, even if my biggest reason was a lack of will to grind from scratch in 1x rates, again.

Yeah. I agree with all this. You know what's kinda sad? The current development team has no clue what made the original server awesome. Back then, they made smart and fun changes. But now? It's like they're nerfing everything just 'cause. I used to love OathRO, but now it's turned into a mess under uninspired leadership.

Oathro and currently, Payon Stories, has been running for more than 2 years, interestingly, same problems still remain. Unresolved conflicts, passive aggressive behavior being the norm with no repercussion, BOTs, multi-clienters, reborn, atroce, problematic individuals in the community...

Just dont play Payon Stories, its not that hard xD.

Quote from: 2k2 on Oct 03, 2023, 12:21 PMSairek, you fail to realize that nobody has any concern about p2w "dominating" the server. OP was exposed on reddit by being a p2w member doing this kind of thread just to draw attention to this guild and make them look big/accomplished. Nobody gives a f*** about this guild since they have been around for a good time and were always pretty bad and clowns, always avoiding competing against actual guilds and playing on small casual low-rate servers only, since they're the type of people to play RO for 18h/day. Payon Stories level is at most laughable and it's a casual server, which is exactly the type of server that guild plays on, because everytime they played on a legit competitive server, they were stomped hard.

People WERE reporting every kind of bad things in your server with not only screenshots and videos, but also @request staff immedietaly to check on bots and the staff still didn't do s*** about it. People were even forcing actions/reaction on them to show and prove they were bots yet the response from the staff was simply "they're not bots!" or "we're going to further investigate" while the bot was still there, playing 24h a day for weeks, lol.

And how can you say there was never any bias towards p2w when during the few weeks I played there, the discord was a dumpster fire and cesspool of toxicity and corruption because the staff had the bright idea of creating something called "PvM Council" where a selected group of players would have direct decisions on the server's changes, balance and future, and all of these selected players were from p2w guild, which obviously caused an uphoar in the community. Members from this guild were trash talking and bashing people on discord 24/7, in front of the staff and CMs with no punishment, and when people attacked them back with the same wording, the staff banned the victims instead, which then made p2w members laugh and mock the community even more. Worst part of all this was when A LOT of people revolted and forced the staff to do things and they actually banned like 1 or 2 players (out of 20+) of that guild and they created an "unaffiliated community discord" (GMs/CMs of Payon Stories were in this discord server in position of power/moderation btw, so they were aware of everything happening/being said there and also were part of it) where they were doing racist, sexist, mysogynist, homofobic attacks and even doxxing players of opposite guilds/groups in PS community, the staff was well aware of it and who was it, yet they refused to act/ban them in-game simply because it "happened on an unaffiliated discord, we have no control of what happens there", but you do know what happens there and who are the people, you just refused to act because of who they are.

Can't really comment on the whole "PvM council thing" because it wasn't my idea. I did nothing when it came to "game balance". My job was only to post suggestions from the community and rule enforcement.
I.E., the whole "hey guys, doing this is a really bad idea" and voicing that concern from the community to the people making that decision was a bad idea.

In regards to the server and second chances: There wasn't any real plan. The major concern was just getting the server alive again after it was killed.
And that is entirely my fault. I'm the one who pushed it to get up again immediately. In hindsight, it would have been better to prepare and ready the server for so much stuff, instead of just relaunching it ASAP and doing it properly, especially with such a skeleton crew of staff at the time. Worst of all, it was an entirely selfish mindset. I had just lost a long-time friend over the server, but I also lost the server too; I didn't want to lose both if one could be recovered; and I also wanted to kind of give a "F U, you won't win" to Oathkeeper at the time. In my short-sightedness, I didn't consider what that could do to the server in the long-term.

I am sorry for that.

QuoteAnd what's the problem in that? If you know this specific guild RMTs (and break other rules) in every single server they play, how the f*** can you think it will be any different in your server? f***, they did it in the previous version of this same server, so tell me, what's the problem of protecting the server from future problems before it even become a problem?

And regarding banning other people for just associating with them: they're aware of who they are and what they do, they made the choice of playing with them, didn't they? So why are you being so sympathetic with people with such bad intentions? Nobody has a gun on their head forcing them to play with these desperate freaks. Why don't you use your sympathy to sympathize with legit players playing by the rules and being a good asset for your community? You literally killed your server because you decided a bunch of 15-20 weirdos are more important than the 500+ players in the community (judging by the server numbers these days vs when I played it at the beginning).

Anyway, for a person constantly claiming you have nothing to do with the server anymore, you really do work hard to protect their antics and corruption. If you only applied this hard work with fairness during the time you were CM, perhaps the server would be thriving right now, but alas.

I don't "know" anything. But I know what I hear.

At the end of the day, you are accusing me for allowing them to play on the server and I have to again, tell you, that is not my role. I was not an admin, I was a moderator. My job isn't to decide who can and cannot play on the server. My job was to make sure the community had a voice, make sure that the people who are playing were following the rules, and that the staff under me were remaining professional.

To suggest I should be doing anything else just simply means you do not understand what my job and role with the server was.

When a P2W member broke a rule, I made sure to the best of my ability, that they got punished just like anyone else who would break a rule. I treated them just like any other player on the server; because that was my job.

Genuinely, it's a bit hypocritical of you to say I gave them special treatment, when all is said and done, you want me to still treat them differently than anyone else on the server; just on the opposite end of the spectrum, because you don't like them. And my opinion is here saying, "While I can see why that may have merit, I don't see how that is any different than the accusations being levied". Because really, how is it any different if they aren't being treated neutrally like everyone else?
At the end of the day, you are complaining that they were, allegedly, treated differently, but you aren't complaining that I didn't treat them neutrally (which I did). You are complaining that I didn't treat them poorly, and that I should have gone beyond my jurisdiction of my role as a server moderator to remove all of them. And if you think them being treated like everyone else is special treatment, then there's no point in arguing anyways, because then you would simply be complaining that I did my job.


Of course, anyone is welcome to think what they like if I did good, awesome, bad, terrible, etc, regardless of whether I think the criticism has merit or not. Even I don't think I did very good even if I tried my best. I mean, I learned a lot, but that doesn't really help in the aftermath or the current situation of the server, of course. At the end of the day, it's not really my issue anymore, which I'm actually thankful for now. I don't plan to do such a position ever again. I simply don't like it, and never did. I'll stick with content creation where I think I have much more value and actually know what I am doing and ultimately, find much more personal fulfillment in. I'd like to go back to working on my sprite comic too, once my real life situation eventually settles down.

@Sairek Ceareste I just want to thank you for all the time and effort you did put into the server. What I don't under stand is IF all these people know P2W is RMTing or known for it and was banned before, why not try reaching out to the server staff they were banned on to cross notes. As people said "I'm not going to keep a detailed log of who got banned for what". Well people seem to forget anyone can say anything online like I can say those making the 'proof less' claims they are just mad someone is better them.  /hmm

Remember, this is the internet where people love to say anything and not prove it. To what it sounds like the staff has looked into the claims and have watched them for a little while. Sure I don't have any way to prove or discredit that but really this back and forth kills servers faster then a guild steam rolling everyone.

Quote from: Sairek Ceareste on Oct 08, 2023, 08:14 AMCan't really comment on the whole "PvM council thing" because it wasn't my idea. I did nothing when it came to "game balance". My job was only to post suggestions from the community and rule enforcement.
I.E., the whole "hey guys, doing this is a really bad idea" and voicing that concern from the community to the people making that decision was a bad idea.

In regards to the server and second chances: There wasn't any real plan. The major concern was just getting the server alive again after it was killed.
And that is entirely my fault. I'm the one who pushed it to get up again immediately. In hindsight, it would have been better to prepare and ready the server for so much stuff, instead of just relaunching it ASAP and doing it properly, especially with such a skeleton crew of staff at the time. Worst of all, it was an entirely selfish mindset. I had just lost a long-time friend over the server, but I also lost the server too; I didn't want to lose both if one could be recovered; and I also wanted to kind of give a "F U, you won't win" to Oathkeeper at the time. In my short-sightedness, I didn't consider what that could do to the server in the long-term.

I am sorry for that.





I don't "know" anything. But I know what I hear.

At the end of the day, you are accusing me for allowing them to play on the server and I have to again, tell you, that is not my role. I was not an admin, I was a moderator. My job isn't to decide who can and cannot play on the server. My job was to make sure the community had a voice, make sure that the people who are playing were following the rules, and that the staff under me were remaining professional.

To suggest I should be doing anything else just simply means you do not understand what my job and role with the server was.

When a P2W member broke a rule, I made sure to the best of my ability, that they got punished just like anyone else who would break a rule. I treated them just like any other player on the server; because that was my job.

Genuinely, it's a bit hypocritical of you to say I gave them special treatment, when all is said and done, you want me to still treat them differently than anyone else on the server; just on the opposite end of the spectrum, because you don't like them. And my opinion is here saying, "While I can see why that may have merit, I don't see how that is any different than the accusations being levied". Because really, how is it any different if they aren't being treated neutrally like everyone else?
At the end of the day, you are complaining that they were, allegedly, treated differently, but you aren't complaining that I didn't treat them neutrally (which I did). You are complaining that I didn't treat them poorly, and that I should have gone beyond my jurisdiction of my role as a server moderator to remove all of them. And if you think them being treated like everyone else is special treatment, then there's no point in arguing anyways, because then you would simply be complaining that I did my job.


Of course, anyone is welcome to think what they like if I did good, awesome, bad, terrible, etc, regardless of whether I think the criticism has merit or not. Even I don't think I did very good even if I tried my best. I mean, I learned a lot, but that doesn't really help in the aftermath or the current situation of the server, of course. At the end of the day, it's not really my issue anymore, which I'm actually thankful for now. I don't plan to do such a position ever again. I simply don't like it, and never did. I'll stick with content creation where I think I have much more value and actually know what I am doing and ultimately, find much more personal fulfillment in. I'd like to go back to working on my sprite comic too, once my real life situation eventually settles down.

When I say that you could have done better, I mean the whole staff/team, including moderators. As far as I remember, you weren't directly involved in the corruption of PS moderators protecting and allowing p2w members to personally publicly attack other members of the community during the whole "PvM Council" drama. It was 2 or 3 other moderators, but still it's a bad thing for the whole team, so of course that would hit you as well.

If you really are as clueless (regarding the staff's actions) as you claim to be, just know that your previous team was (probably still is) corrupt as f*ck, to the point of endorsing and helping a bunch of rmters and general terrible people personally attack and doxx others. Wouldn't be surprising if they were part of the RMT scheme too, since the team had a part of it back on Oath, and judging their apparently ties with p2w, they likely are doing it again.

Quote from: Shuchou on Oct 08, 2023, 01:45 PM@Sairek Ceareste I just want to thank you for all the time and effort you did put into the server. What I don't under stand is IF all these people know P2W is RMTing or known for it and was banned before, why not try reaching out to the server staff they were banned on to cross notes. As people said "I'm not going to keep a detailed log of who got banned for what". Well people seem to forget anyone can say anything online like I can say those making the 'proof less' claims they are just mad someone is better them.  /hmm

Remember, this is the internet where people love to say anything and not prove it. To what it sounds like the staff has looked into the claims and have watched them for a little while. Sure I don't have any way to prove or discredit that but really this back and forth kills servers faster then a guild steam rolling everyone.

And this was the whole point of not only my posts, but the posts of a few others members in this thread: there's no way for a regular uninvolved person to have proves of said RMT other than hearsay or direct confirmation from someone involved (which doesn't prove sh*t still, as the moment we pass the info forward, it becomes hearsay as well). Also nobody that cared about it seems to have continued play there, so why would we bother with proving anything here now? We (? I did, at least) tried hard but the staff just ignored it. Staff are the ones that could easily and quickly prove it someone is RMTing or not, so getting a tip of who might be doing it should have been enough for them to investigate, confirm and punish the players, but nothing was done about it.

And wouldn't be hard at all. P2w guild admitted to have RMTed their whole time in OathRO when the server exploded. Why do you think they would play clean this time? Lmao once a cheater, always a cheater, simply as that.

Server owners should ban on sight any previous serious offender even if it wasn't in the your server. P2w guild and Reborn player for example, they have admitted and given proof of what they have done whenever a server ends or they're done with it: they RMT from the start to end. Why would allow such cancer to join the community? Or worse: why allow them not only to join, but not keep close eyes on everything they do on the server and especially check whatever reports against them?

Never asked special treatment because it's specifically them. I ask special treatment because it's a bunch of known and confirmer cheaters. If I was a cheater, I should 100% be on a Blocklist/being monitored all the time.

You give the benefit of the doubt for unknowns potential or first timer offenders. On confirmed offenders, you treat them the way it's expected them to be treated: carefully and always under suspicions, just like how things are in real life.

Quote from: Shuchou on Oct 08, 2023, 01:45 PM@Sairek Ceareste I just want to thank you for all the time and effort you did put into the server. What I don't under stand is IF all these people know P2W is RMTing or known for it and was banned before, why not try reaching out to the server staff they were banned on to cross notes. As people said "I'm not going to keep a detailed log of who got banned for what". Well people seem to forget anyone can say anything online like I can say those making the 'proof less' claims they are just mad someone is better them.  /hmm

Remember, this is the internet where people love to say anything and not prove it. To what it sounds like the staff has looked into the claims and have watched them for a little while. Sure I don't have any way to prove or discredit that but really this back and forth kills servers faster then a guild steam rolling everyone.

Thanks, I appreciate the encouraging words!

Unfortunately, I can't really answer that question effectively. I can say a few things, like how staff believed we should only hold "judgment" or "jurisdiction" on channels that the server owned and the like, which all of that is true. There was only a couple exceptions to this; RMT posts being one of them for obvious reasons, or if someone was considered a genuine danger to the community beyond just being a liability within the game environment - that kind of thing.

But ultimately? There was no good reason - we just didn't do it. Even with taking the above into consideration, there's nothing wrong with asking about someone to get more information to better keep tabs on them at the bare minimum. Or perhaps even hearing about such things could have persuaded the team to change the stance on the whole decision of how to moderate.

Quote from: 2k2 on Oct 08, 2023, 03:43 PMWhen I say that you could have done better, I mean the whole staff/team, including moderators. As far as I remember, you weren't directly involved in the corruption of PS moderators protecting and allowing p2w members to personally publicly attack other members of the community during the whole "PvM Council" drama. It was 2 or 3 other moderators, but still it's a bad thing for the whole team, so of course that would hit you as well.

If you really are as clueless (regarding the staff's actions) as you claim to be, just know that your previous team was (probably still is) corrupt as f*ck, to the point of endorsing and helping a bunch of rmters and general terrible people personally attack and doxx others. Wouldn't be surprising if they were part of the RMT scheme too, since the team had a part of it back on Oath, and judging their apparently ties with p2w, they likely are doing it again.

Fair enough, though yes, I still could have done a lot better anyway.

I would like to not believe the rumors, but working for OathRO/PS has burned me enough times already that I'm going to get third degree burns if I don't stop needlessly trusting people. I need to resign to the fact that I suck at judging people and do not, and will not know them as well as I believe I do.


I never even looked into the PvM council channel myself to catch anything because I "trusted" everyone on staff. I only heard things when people started telling me and were upset. That should have been an immediate red flag considering half my job was to make sure no funny business was going on and I just... neglected looking into it. My logic at the time was because "there's enough false rumors already and I don't want to deal with more drama" or something akin to that.
That logic is an immediate failure of being a good leader or manager of a team considering I should be investigating it regardless of how "baseless" a rumor may seem or my personal opinion on it. Failure to do so is indeed bias on my part. Not to mention it's just... selfish. I either should have been doing all of the job or if I was uncomfortable with it, stepping down and letting someone else take charge. I should not have been selectively half-baking my duties because the situation made me uncomfortable.

Now I'm not part of the team so I just don't know because I never even bothered to look at all. Which is really embarrassing for me to say as someone who should have known what their team was doing, if they were performing well at all times, and simply just keeping tabs on them. /swt

Quote from: 2k2 on Oct 08, 2023, 03:52 PMAnd this was the whole point of not only my posts, but the posts of a few others members in this thread: there's no way for a regular uninvolved person to have proves of said RMT other than hearsay or direct confirmation from someone involved (which doesn't prove sh*t still, as the moment we pass the info forward, it becomes hearsay as well). Also nobody that cared about it seems to have continued play there, so why would we bother with proving anything here now? We (? I did, at least) tried hard but the staff just ignored it. Staff are the ones that could easily and quickly prove it someone is RMTing or not, so getting a tip of who might be doing it should have been enough for them to investigate, confirm and punish the players, but nothing was done about it.

And wouldn't be hard at all. P2w guild admitted to have RMTed their whole time in OathRO when the server exploded. Why do you think they would play clean this time? Lmao once a cheater, always a cheater, simply as that.

Server owners should ban on sight any previous serious offender even if it wasn't in the your server. P2w guild and Reborn player for example, they have admitted and given proof of what they have done whenever a server ends or they're done with it: they RMT from the start to end. Why would allow such cancer to join the community? Or worse: why allow them not only to join, but not keep close eyes on everything they do on the server and especially check whatever reports against them?

Never asked special treatment because it's specifically them. I ask special treatment because it's a bunch of known and confirmer cheaters. If I was a cheater, I should 100% be on a Blocklist/being monitored all the time.

You give the benefit of the doubt for unknowns potential or first timer offenders. On confirmed offenders, you treat them the way it's expected them to be treated: carefully and always under suspicions, just like how things are in real life.

I just want to point out, it was not the WHOLE guild of P2W, just doodoo Reborn and he was banned from the discord. And banned again when the staff were shown what his ingame account was, considering they could not just look at the oathRO data base to see what his IP or mask address was to add to the ban list. So they did take action against him when they could, as for the rest of the guild I can not speak for if they did or did not do anything. But as I said, people need to remember this is the internet and people will say what ever they want because they are behind a screen and not face to face. Just like I could say 2K2 was banned from 17 servers for botting, just because I said it without proving it, does that make it true?

Quote from: Ayami on Oct 03, 2023, 02:35 PMjust as I did with Talon and Nova

Just curious, who were you on Nova, and around when did you work there?

About RMT and software rumor i have no mercy an wont waste my attention more than i do this mornings if true ill

stole to me another smile.

PS: long run server i truly hope so /ho

Quote from: 2k2 on Oct 02, 2023, 04:25 PMYes. Aaron's bunch of clowns and weirdos. iro scrubs, p2w etc. Doing the very same thing they do in every server, then crying at how the RO community is dying or becoming more and more casual.
Are you the same Ayami that was a major part of Oath's implosion? The one who was aggressively protecting Oath, their antics and the general corruption and problems in that server?

The problems you talked about are not exclusively tied to the WoE or competitive scene, it's more of a problem with toxicity and the inability of the server's staff to handle it, or in some cases, directly help/protect the toxic side instead of punishing them, which is what happened in Payon Stories and what always happened in servers like Talon Tales. Server staff protecting toxic players, protecting their RMT schemes and such is what kills the server, not WoE or overall competitive scene.

Take Origins as an example, the server had a very competitive PvE scene and the WoE scene was alright, with lots of old guilds/groups competing for years, some dating back from official servers, and the toxicity there wasn't blatant or everywhere (besides the usual "ggnoobs" or sending emoticons upon winning) because the staff was actively punishing it and enforcing their rules, without protecting specific individuals or entire groups. Toxicity is dominant only on servers where the staff doesn't give a f***. Servers where the staff actually act like staff, toxicity is the least of the problems.

Payon Stories had a solid community (excluding p2w group, where if they were banned from the start, the server would be in a much better place right now) and a solid shot at succeeding after the fiasco that OathRO was, but bad decisions alongside with stupid, useless and corrupt GMs/Moderators is what slowly killed/is killing the server.

Lol, how? If anything, RO has become too hardcore. The socializing aspect is almost gone. It's the same people trying to get to the top and shaming others for not doing so on private servers. Like what is the point? We've been playing this game for decades.

That's some dedication if P2W is still out there lol.