Alright so long story short our staff team at SalukeRO are trying to figure out a way that we can reward GM's for there work whilst makeing players A:Not feel cheated B:Join the GM team for the wrong reasons (to earn a "Gm Reward") my inital idea that was that there could be a donation salary ie Staff member 1,2,3,4 Take an X percentage of donateions(Depending on Status/Productivity),and or the eqivelant in donateion credits but we figured there might be some issues with this,regaurding GM jelously ect. anyone have a few ideas regaurding this?? ifso please add your input (:
From what it sounds like, does that mean staff members will be allowed legit accounts? If so... Then I honestly don't think rewarding them with donation credits or any tangible item in game will result into anything good, especially for the two reasons you stated. Being on staff in the first place, means one should be aware that they're doing it for a game and its players, out of the goodness of their heart and time.
However, I do understand you trying to find a way to let then know their effort is appreciated, since GMs have to go through crap constantly, without any appreciation. Perhaps allow them to have a piece of equipment signed with their name, or let them have something that's scripted only for them? For example, you can create a simple (or hard, that's up to you) quest themed after then, and the headgear or whatever equip from the quest will have a special description like "A crown fitting for our one and only _______. +100% to cuteness." maybe? It should only be done after you know the GM will be around for a while and they won't cause any problems.
I don't know, just throwing ideas out there. I think it'd be sort of fun and witty, excuse the poor idea if you don't like it, I'm not entirely coherent right now as my mind is still tired from waking up early in the morning. Good luck. :D
Allowing them to play the server with a GM account + a legit account is more than enough rewarding for staff. 90% of Servers nowadays don't allow GMs to have legits because of corruption, like omigawds.
Don't reward them at all. GMing ( on a private server ) isn't about getting something in return, it is about helping others, hard work and dealing with a lot of nonsense.
If you want to pay them later on with real money, then that is another thing entirely.
back in 2008 i was working for MicRO 60$ per month and Lumina 15-20$ monthly (micro was around 1 years of getting paid)
I do not think you should reward your GMs with anything related to donations. Like the others said, it can lead to the wrong type of motives to wanting to join the GM team on your server, especially if they are playing your server with a legit account. If a player wants to be a GM on your server, they shouldn't have anything in mind, but to help the server grow, make it more fun, and help the players who need help.
You can do what Kaiya is saying though, reward them with something special?
well... imo too many Server Owners have the wrong idea in hiring Staff, like seriously too many event GMs with next to no talent, If you want to hire GMs, make sure they can actually contribute. e. coding, spriting, mapping, scripting. or if you wish to take the time to train one to do such like scripting or whatever... but as far as rewarding, make some kind of memento ingame, thats it. they don't need things for legits, nor do they need real cash or credits.... but hey If you want useless GMs, think of them as volunteered babysitters lol easily replacable...
Quote from: Silverbaine on Mar 28, 2012, 03:27 AM
well... imo too many Server Owners have the wrong idea in hiring Staff, like seriously too many event GMs with next to no talent, If you want to hire GMs, make sure they can actually contribute. e. coding, spriting, mapping, scripting. or if you wish to take the time to train one to do such like scripting or whatever... but as far as rewarding, make some kind of memento ingame, thats it. they don't need things for legits, nor do they need real cash or credits.... but hey If you want useless GMs, think of them as volunteered babysitters lol easily replacable...
Devs make the WORST GMS EVER, why should they be in a PR position just because they can script? That is not logical by a long shot, that is like putting an anti social script kiddy in charge of making sure everyones psychological welfare is intact, having them deal with the drama.... then they don't script, they deal with drama, they stress out because of overload, they rage or leave or both.
Devving and Gming are two entirely different things, the problem is... people try to combine then. Hence so much GM drama. Keep GMing and Dev staff separate and your server will be easier to manage.
Quote
Devving and Gming are two entirely different things, the problem is... people try to combine then. Hence so much GM drama. Keep GMing and Dev staff separate and your server will be easier to manage.
I totally agree on this. You should have a separate team for development and player support.
Quote from: Mewi on Apr 01, 2012, 08:50 AM
Devs make the WORST GMS EVER, why should they be in a PR position just because they can script? That is not logical by a long shot, that is like putting an anti social script kiddy in charge of making sure everyones psychological welfare is intact, having them deal with the drama.... then they don't script, they deal with drama, they stress out because of overload, they rage or leave or both.
Devving and Gming are two entirely different things, the problem is... people try to combine then. Hence so much GM drama. Keep GMing and Dev staff separate and your server will be easier to manage.
Yes, but it's still true what he said though. There's so many servers with too many GMs, most of whom are event GMs or "support", except they only sit in town looking cute in their GM dresses and socializing and when you need help, they give wrong information or tell you to go post in forums. Having support and event GMs separate from developers is good, but you don't need twenty of them, and should make sure they actually know something about the game and want to help, not just want to be GM for attention and power.
I also think GMs should only be seen when they are needed. Having a group of GM characters sitting in town surrounded by their fanclub kinda just screams drama and corruption to me :-X
Quote from: wireless on Apr 01, 2012, 11:31 AM
kinda just screams drama and corruption to me :-X
How the freak is talking to people corruption. I seriously don't think half the people on RMS know what this word means.
If you have GM's motivated and working for the sole purpose of a reward, you are doing the wrong approach.
Being a GM is volunteer work, its not a kind or easy job to do as well. They do it for the better of the server and contribute their efforts to maintain and keep a server active.
Quote from: Chemical Crush on Apr 01, 2012, 01:52 PM
How the freak is talking to people corruption. I seriously don't think half the people on RMS know what this word means.
Never said talking to people is corruption /swt but in my experience the kind of GM who do that all day tend to be corrupt or favor certain people when making decisions, and their servers full of drama and because of those experiences it's kind of a turn off to see that. And no, I'm not the only person in the world who thinks that.
Quote from: wireless on Apr 01, 2012, 02:47 PM
Never said talking to people is corruption /swt but in my experience the kind of GM who do that all day tend to be corrupt or favor certain people when making decisions, and their servers full of drama and because of those experiences it's kind of a turn off to see that. And no, I'm not the only person in the world who thinks that.
Look at your previous post, the context of your sentence and the way you worded it makes it seem like your subject of "Talking in town" and "being seen" is grounds for "screaming for drama and corruption".
Chemical Crush is not wrong because thats what your post suggests, but you can't jump to conclusion of one persons post that half of RMS doesn't know what corruption is. Again, not an accurate representation to judge a population on one post.
I don't know what's up with some peoples' reading comprehension (ok yes I do... americans. If you want to flame me for that, do it in PM please), but that's not what it says. What it says is that to me, because of what I've seen in previous servers, a GM spending their online time just sitting in town and chatting with friends and groupies is an almost certain sign that they are corrupted (or drama whores at the very least), not that chatting itself is corruption.
Anyway, that wasn't even the point of the post, just kind of a sidenote I felt like adding. Point was that I was agreeing with the guy who said that hiring bunch of useless GMs doesn't make the server any better.
Thread seems to be getting a little offtopic?
Quote from: Jasc on Apr 01, 2012, 02:18 PM
If you have GM's motivated and working for the sole purpose of a reward, you are doing the wrong approach.
Being a GM is volunteer work, its not a kind or easy job to do as well. They do it for the better of the server and contribute their efforts to maintain and keep a server active.
I don't expect anyone to work for free.
Quote from: D1gITaLMaYhEm on Apr 01, 2012, 04:35 PM
I don't expect anyone to work for free.
Then thats a signal that nobody works on your server out of the passion and enjoyment of the server, the only thing on their mind is getting paid to do work.
I have 2 people who currently GM for DivinationRO.
Why are they gms?
1. They like what they do
2. They like to contribute and help the community
3. Both see potential in the server to grow and become successful
Our team has built up trust and friendship.
If your whole GM team is set on contractually like payments and rewards, the moment they don't receive those rewards or payments, they have lost all respect for you and you might have to take the risk to ban them if they decide to act in a malicious manner.
I want to point out that this can be a major comparison between real life volunteer work and a job.
Most people don't enjoy there job and are passionate about what they do. You think the people who work at mcdonalds and fast food restaurants really love their job? Maybe a few, but most are there to pick up a pay cheque.
Whereas, volunteer work, you have people who build up relationships with clients/customers, they like what they do which is why they do it for free, and the chance of them staying their longer to volunteer is higher than that of a job. They do it out of the sheer passion and enjoyment of helping others. Thats what separates a good GM from others.
This is my opinion, you can see the truth for yourself once you establish a successful server and observe your gms.
Quote from: Jasc on Apr 01, 2012, 05:08 PM
Then thats a signal that nobody works on your server out of the passion and enjoyment of the server, the only thing on their mind is getting paid to do work.
I have 2 people who currently GM for DivinationRO.
Why are they gms?
1. They like what they do
2. They like to contribute and help the community
3. Both see potential in the server to grow and become successful
Our team has built up trust and friendship.
If your whole GM team is set on contractually like payments and rewards, the moment they don't receive those rewards or payments, they have lost all respect for you and you might have to take the risk to ban them if they decide to act in a malicious manner.
I want to point out that this can be a major comparison between real life volunteer work and a job.
Most people don't enjoy there job and are passionate about what they do. You think the people who work at mcdonalds and fast food restaurants really love their job? Maybe a few, but most are there to pick up a pay cheque.
Whereas, volunteer work, you have people who build up relationships with clients/customers, they like what they do which is why they do it for free, and the chance of them staying their longer to volunteer is higher than that of a job. They do it out of the sheer passion and enjoyment of helping others. Thats what separates a good GM from others.
This is my opinion, you can see the truth for yourself once you establish a successful server and observe your gms.
tl;dr
But (assumeing you work irl) do you wakeup everymorning and go to your job and expect to work for free for the "passion of it" no of course not.
Having passion and enjoyment and wanting to see the server succeed is one thing but i still don't expect anyone to work for free.
In a nutshell i honestly don't care what there motivation is if they have talent and they get there job done professionally and avoid all corruption/drama then thats fine with me,anyone who is willing to giveup a portion of there free time "for free" is eaither extremely loyal to you or has a hidden motive.
Never the less i will always provide a reward for hard honest work.
I wish you the best of luck and I hope that the players take the same perspective you do in this matter.
Is this your first time making a brand new server as the sole owner? So taking care of all the hosting/website aspects as well as hiring GM team?
Quote from: Jasc on Apr 01, 2012, 05:59 PM
I wish you the best of luck and I hope that the players take the same perspective you do in this matter.
Is this your first time making a brand new server as the sole owner? So taking care of all the hosting/website aspects as well as hiring GM team?
No,i have worked with quite a big variety of servers.
Ive tried twice to look for GM's on RMS looking at resumes etc. The ones I have hired became inactive and I do not have a single GM hired from RMS at the moment and I don't plan to in the future.
Your best GM's come from loyal/dedicated players who play on it.
Quote from: Jasc on Apr 01, 2012, 06:12 PM
Ive tried twice to look for GM's on RMS looking at resumes etc. The ones I have hired became inactive and I do not have a single GM hired from RMS at the moment and I don't plan to in the future.
Your best GM's come from loyal/dedicated players who play on it.
I agree.
But also i wanted to add the only reason i offer my services "free" is because of the satisfaction i get from seeing my content published ect that in itself is payment enough for me so i can 100% see your point in the above posts but from my own experience most GM's feel under apreciated no matter what you do to try and keep them happy and the reason i'am takeing this aproach this time is because i want avoid another scenario like what is happening on a certain 1# rms midrate server at the moment
experience definitely makes you a better person and I wish the best of luck to your server. I have put in my 2 cents on this thread already, good luck!
Quote from: Jasc on Apr 01, 2012, 04:08 PM
Chemical Crush is not wrong because thats what your post suggests, but you can't jump to conclusion of one persons post that half of RMS doesn't know what corruption is. Again, not an accurate representation to judge a population on one post.
You must not Visit RMS often, we see tons of people scream corruption for things that literally aren't corruption. I am on RMS very often and I see this often, or just players in general screaming corruption for things that ARE NOT corruption.
On topic.
I don't think Credits for Legit accounts is a good way to go about it. But I also understand you dislike people working for free, believe me, that I do understand. You could always pay them real money for their time or maybe they can have a special non stat item on their character...I dunno. Just credits seem meh. But there are people who WILL work for free, I've always worked on servers for free, mainly because I enjoy seeing my maps used. Thats why every map I make, unless its for a server I work for, I end up releasing on RMS / rA.
Quote from: Chemical Crush on Apr 01, 2012, 06:58 PM
You must not Visit RMS often, we see tons of people scream corruption for things that literally aren't corruption. I am on RMS very often and I see this often, or just players in general screaming corruption for things that ARE NOT corruption.
Oh, if that's how things are then I guess we can both agree and take the same perspective and assume in same regards to the posts in the rant section.
Quote from: Chemical Crush on Apr 01, 2012, 01:52 PM
How the freak is talking to people corruption. I seriously don't think half the people on RMS know what this word means.
Considering you defend corrupt Server Owners and state there is "no evidence of corruption" so you request the thread to close, despite evidence to the contrary... I guess mass lying, coverups, forgery, etc? Isn't corruption also?
I think your over exaggerated post is somewhat astonishing. That person clearly didn't say doing that, meant you were corrupt. He/she said doing that could be a sign of corruption.
Quote from: Jasc on Apr 01, 2012, 06:12 PM
Ive tried twice to look for GM's on RMS looking at resumes etc. The ones I have hired became inactive and I do not have a single GM hired from RMS at the moment and I don't plan to in the future.
Your best GM's come from loyal/dedicated players who play on it.
Just becareful, because loyal and dedicated could easily just be, brown nosing back stabber.
Quote from: Chemical Crush on Apr 01, 2012, 06:58 PM
You must not Visit RMS often, we see tons of people scream corruption for things that literally aren't corruption. I am on RMS very often and I see this often, or just players in general screaming corruption for things that ARE NOT corruption.
Again, you just want every single corruption thread closed, despite clear signs of corruption. I think YOU think, you know what corruption is, but if the threads I have witnessed you constantly spamming "Close this thread this isnt proof of corruption" dot dot dot, every other post as "these aren't proofs of corruption." Then... I seriously question your judgment.
PS: Do you still believe Cookie is not a corrupt admin? lol
Personally, I don't feel a reward is necessary. GM'ing is something that should be done as a hobby or pass time rather than a paid service. If one expects to be paid to GM for you, their intentions might not be proper to begin with. However, if you insist paying them, then allowing them to play on a legit account should be enough as someone stated previously. GM'ing is not easy. If you want to treat GM'ing professionally like a business then don't get involved in the business by making a legit account. Simple enough. If you treat it as a pass time, a hobby, volunteer work to improve the very server you spend time on then sure make a legit account, enjoy your time. As the one doing the hiring of the GM on our server, whenever I look for people I look for those that actually would want to help others instead of those looking to be a level hire than the rest of the players. If you don't expect anyone to work for free, I feel that you would be more used and have a hard time in the long run than having those who genuinely want to contribute. Correct me if I'm wrong but Rathena/ other open source projects doesn't pay anyone. It's a community that wants to contribute to their project to make it better.
In regards, to the other topics within this thread: In the short time I've been here I do feel that people on RMS do not have proper terminology on things and at the end of the day everything is labeled 'corruption'. As for devs being GM, I don't know what the big deal about it is. You're generalizing a LOT when you say that devs are anti social script kiddies. Very incorrect. And why not have a dev in the GM team. He/she could probably answer technical questions better than the other GMs that just handle player relations. Just a thought on my side.
Quote from: Mewi on Apr 01, 2012, 08:24 PM
Just becareful, because loyal and dedicated could easily just be, brown nosing back stabber.
Absolutely, I've had my fair share of experience with GM's who backstabbed me. All too familiar to be honest. In the end, the only person you can really trust with 100% faith is yourself. But that's how its life for everything in life!
Quote from: Mewi on Apr 01, 2012, 08:50 AM
Devs make the WORST GMS EVER, why should they be in a PR position just because they can script? That is not logical by a long shot, that is like putting an anti social script kiddy in charge of making sure everyones psychological welfare is intact, having them deal with the drama.... then they don't script, they deal with drama, they stress out because of overload, they rage or leave or both.
Devving and Gming are two entirely different things, the problem is... people try to combine then. Hence so much GM drama. Keep GMing and Dev staff separate and your server will be easier to manage.
Not neccessarily.... In the server I tend to call home, our main Dev, is actually mature enough to not be "overloaded" in fact Admin Masaki, is quite easy to get along with and talk with. when he's busy coding, he simply says so, and also takes the time to teach others a few strings of code.
But since Devs like him are I guess rare to come across... yes some "PR" staff could be useful, but.. at least make sure they only have commands they need to do what they hired for, and not commands they can just muck about with... nothing worse then GM logs on in hide, nuking, @kami-ing useless bcs, sitting in town doing nothing but disguises.... gtfo go do event.... do player support, botcheck!!!