A server that is set up right from the start should not need multiple GMs, at least not until the population breaks 50-70 people or so online at a time. There really, really shouldn't be that much need for micromanagement. I've just seen too many servers with 20 people online, but 5 are GMs. Or better yet, 100 people are online, but 70 of them are autotraders, and 10 are GMs. What do these people do, exactly? Look at the common functions of a GM:
1) Fix glitches- This shouldn't happen much, if ever, if your server was set up right to begin with. If/when it does happen, have players report the bug on the forums, complete with an explanation of the problem, how it happened, and screenshots. The sole admin/GM may need to watch this daily at first, but then maybe once or twice a week once the server establishes itself. If it's urgent, players can send you an e-mail that should be checked daily. If a player abuses the e-mail, warn/ban.
2) Enforce rules- What rules need enforcing, really? On a PK server, PK rules should be enforced by implementing things like level restrictions and safe zones. If there's someone that continually stalks and harasses another player, either to PK or just for verbal abuse, have the victim provide you with screenshots, then ban the offender if necessary. Again, this really only needs to be a once or twice a week check. If someone can't handle three days of putting up with a minor annoyance, and can't seem to figure out how to block private messages and/or put Fly Wings to good use, then chances are you aren't losing a worthwhile player anyway. For skill abuse, simply turn off non-buff skills in towns. If someone finds some other way to abuse skills, require screenshots, then warn/ban as needed.
3) Attend to newbies- First off, there shouldn't be any reason to cater to noobs begging for freebies. Ever. If there happen to be regular players hanging around that want to spare a bit of zeny, so be it, but you don't need a GM for that. If someone has questions about the game, they can ask another more experienced player (easily identified by the fact that their sprite isn't a novice...), or they can use the internet. Yes, I am assuming that someone that managed to download and set up a private game server is capable of surfing the internet. If that's too much to ask of a new player, I wouldn't want that player on my server anyway. For anything that may require extra explanation (ie how to get around if you changed the default main town, how to use any custom NPCs you inserted, how your donation system works, any notable changes to the job/stat system, etc.), then explain those on your website and add an 'explanation' NPC to your main town.
4) Scripting- Shouldn't the server owner be the one primarily in charge of this? If not, why are they running the server to begin with? I can understand recruiting some help, but a staff position isn't really needed. If you have a friend who wants to get in on scripting, they should be doing it because they want to, not because you're bribing them with power. If they need to test something, allow them to have GM commands only on an unused map while the main GM/admin is there. If you notice that there's some scripting talent or some particularly creative people in your community, host a small event that's available for anyone to enter and hand out game-relevant prizes as appropriate. No part of that requires a person to have any additional in-game powers.
5) Events- Too many uncontrolled events lead to unbalanced servers, period, no matter who is in charge. How do you make sure the events are balanced? By doing it yourself. Besides, events like mass mob spawns or MvP summons are extremely lame and unprofessional. A good event can be made totally self-sufficient with some creatively scripted NPCs and minimal GM attention. For super high rate servers that host a lot of people and put a lot of emphasis on their fun events, I can understand having a GM that exists solely to hand out freebies, but those are the exception, not the rule.
6) Advertising- Really? Seriously? The admin can advertise their own server, and they can ask (not bribe, ASK) players to vote on the standard top sites. An artistically-inclined admin might need to ask for help with a cool banner, but again, that's not something that requires a player to have extra in-game powers of any sort. If you can't call in a favor from a friend, then host a small banner-making event with a proportionately small reward.
For any server with under 50 people or so, I really do believe that one person- armed with a well-designed website, a properly-scripted game, a reliable host, an organized forum, a respectable level of game knowledge, and at least a small (like 5 people) base of courteous and experienced players- can easily maintain a server by working two or three days a week. The extra time can be put to better use by programming future customs/events or by making appearances in the main town just to chat and appear friendly (and NOTHING else). Frankly, if a one-person GM "team" can't manage to avoid corruption, he shouldn't be a GM. If he can't set up his server properly, he shouldn't be a GM. If he can't put in two days a week for his own server, he shouldn't be a GM. If he isn't able to make good judgment calls on a regular basis regarding rule enforcement and punishment, he shouldn't be a GM. And if he can manage to do all of those things decently, then he really shouldn't need a team at all.
Agreed. But no man can do everything alone,
QuoteI really do believe that one person- armed with a well-designed website, a properly-scripted game, a reliable host, an organized forum, a respectable level of game knowledge.
only if he managed to have a normal life and being good at everything.
Also, Good and Private Servers don't come in the same phrase.
Quote from: Firefly on Aug 08, 2008, 05:35 PM
A server that is set up right from the start should not need multiple GMs, at least not until the population breaks 50-70 people or so online at a time. There really, really shouldn't be that much need for micromanagement. I've just seen too many servers with 20 people online, but 5 are GMs. Or better yet, 100 people are online, but 70 of them are autotraders, and 10 are GMs. What do these people do, exactly? Look at the common functions of a GM:
1) Fix glitches- This shouldn't happen much, if ever, if your server was set up right to begin with. If/when it does happen, have players report the bug on the forums, complete with an explanation of the problem, how it happened, and screenshots. The sole admin/GM may need to watch this daily at first, but then maybe once or twice a week once the server establishes itself. If it's urgent, players can send you an e-mail that should be checked daily. If a player abuses the e-mail, warn/ban.
2) Enforce rules- What rules need enforcing, really? On a PK server, PK rules should be enforced by implementing things like level restrictions and safe zones. If there's someone that continually stalks and harasses another player, either to PK or just for verbal abuse, have the victim provide you with screenshots, then ban the offender if necessary. Again, this really only needs to be a once or twice a week check. If someone can't handle three days of putting up with a minor annoyance, and can't seem to figure out how to block private messages and/or put Fly Wings to good use, then chances are you aren't losing a worthwhile player anyway. For skill abuse, simply turn off non-buff skills in towns. If someone finds some other way to abuse skills, require screenshots, then warn/ban as needed.
3) Attend to newbies- First off, there shouldn't be any reason to cater to noobs begging for freebies. Ever. If there happen to be regular players hanging around that want to spare a bit of zeny, so be it, but you don't need a GM for that. If someone has questions about the game, they can ask another more experienced player (easily identified by the fact that their sprite isn't a novice...), or they can use the internet. Yes, I am assuming that someone that managed to download and set up a private game server is capable of surfing the internet. If that's too much to ask of a new player, I wouldn't want that player on my server anyway. For anything that may require extra explanation (ie how to get around if you changed the default main town, how to use any custom NPCs you inserted, how your donation system works, any notable changes to the job/stat system, etc.), then explain those on your website and add an 'explanation' NPC to your main town.
4) Scripting- Shouldn't the server owner be the one primarily in charge of this? If not, why are they running the server to begin with? I can understand recruiting some help, but a staff position isn't really needed. If you have a friend who wants to get in on scripting, they should be doing it because they want to, not because you're bribing them with power. If they need to test something, allow them to have GM commands only on an unused map while the main GM/admin is there. If you notice that there's some scripting talent or some particularly creative people in your community, host a small event that's available for anyone to enter and hand out game-relevant prizes as appropriate. No part of that requires a person to have any additional in-game powers.
5) Events- Too many uncontrolled events lead to unbalanced servers, period, no matter who is in charge. How do you make sure the events are balanced? By doing it yourself. Besides, events like mass mob spawns or MvP summons are extremely lame and unprofessional. A good event can be made totally self-sufficient with some creatively scripted NPCs and minimal GM attention. For super high rate servers that host a lot of people and put a lot of emphasis on their fun events, I can understand having a GM that exists solely to hand out freebies, but those are the exception, not the rule.
6) Advertising- Really? Seriously? The admin can advertise their own server, and they can ask (not bribe, ASK) players to vote on the standard top sites. An artistically-inclined admin might need to ask for help with a cool banner, but again, that's not something that requires a player to have extra in-game powers of any sort. If you can't call in a favor from a friend, then host a small banner-making event with a proportionately small reward.
For any server with under 50 people or so, I really do believe that one person- armed with a well-designed website, a properly-scripted game, a reliable host, an organized forum, a respectable level of game knowledge, and at least a small (like 5 people) base of courteous and experienced players- can easily maintain a server by working two or three days a week. The extra time can be put to better use by programming future customs/events or by making appearances in the main town just to chat and appear friendly (and NOTHING else). Frankly, if a one-person GM "team" can't manage to avoid corruption, he shouldn't be a GM. If he can't set up his server properly, he shouldn't be a GM. If he can't put in two days a week for his own server, he shouldn't be a GM. If he isn't able to make good judgment calls on a regular basis regarding rule enforcement and punishment, he shouldn't be a GM. And if he can manage to do all of those things decently, then he really shouldn't need a team at all.
Agreed on http://valiant-ro.net (http://valiant-ro.net) we have 100+ Players & only 2 Devs.
The players are quite pleased with our abilities. Gm's are trouble, their useless :L
"A server that is set up right from the start should not need multiple GMs, at least not until the population breaks 50-70 people or so online at a time. There really, really shouldn't be that much need for micromanagement."
Sure. Show me a server that comes right out of the box with customs, scripts, a playerbase, hell, sign me up. Oh by the way, I work a full-time job. Where can I get the free setup, advertising, et cetera?
Until that day comes, I think I'll stick with my staff and I'll keep my ideas in Realisticville.
About the customs, scripts, you can prepare it yourself before you open your server. Even if its little by little because of real life work.
But, you still need people to test your server for bug and glitches, unless you have loads of time on your hands, you can be a beta tester to your own server.
You need to have a lot of time on your hand to maintain a server. But if I were to have my own server, I would only hire 2 GMs.
Most server's I've been on had waaay too many GMs. The one I play now, I can see why we have as many GMs as we have, our admin works full-time, the 2 dev's work and one doesn't have stable internet; the 3 GMs are not always on all the time, save for me, I just dont sleep x_x;. The other 2 have irl things they have to deal with, but I do agree with you. If it was just the admin, a dev, and a GM, I could see that working out nicely. The GM would handle most of the server's problems, ie player questions, events, minor bugs, etc. The dev would handle new NPCs, bugs the GM couldn't handle, etc. The admin, of course, would do everything the other two couldn't, including donations.
edit: wow that doesn't make much sense. Sorry I'm sleepy. x.x;
So, by Firefly's way of thinking, if a server has more than 1 GM, it's obviously a sub-par server and should be overlooked?
Sorry, not to sound lazy, but I have real life obligations as well as server obligations. Having the staff partitioning the work is not only more efficient, but having more staffers around gives players access to nearly 24/7 technical and gameplay support, and frequent events aren't a bad idea either.
I just fail to see Firefly's reasoning, that's all. Not trying to start a flame or anything.
@Rehael: Don't advertise. I could say more about you but I'll refrain since this is a nice topic.
I doubt 1 person knows all, and if that 1 person knew all... he'd need to not have a life in order to run a successful server, because when you think about it...
Forum Moderating
Forum Support
Updates
Bug Fixes
Website
Patches
In-game Events
In-game Support
In-game Moderating
Answering e-mails
Giving Donations to Donators
That'll take up breakfast, lunch, and dinner along with the person's sleep. It's quite illogical... and if a server didn't have all those, it wouldn't be good at all.
Quote from: Descent on Aug 10, 2008, 02:19 PM
So, by Firefly's way of thinking, if a server has more than 1 GM, it's obviously a sub-par server and should be overlooked?
I said nothing close to this. You're assuming that just because I state that a good server does not need multiple GMs, I'm also stating that a good server CANNOT have multiple GMs. If a team of a few people can manage to actually split up work so that things are done more efficiently, then good for them. It's just extremely difficult to control that, especially considering the ridiculous ease of power abuse in this game. How many times have you seen a good server go south because just one of its many GMs made one or two bad calls?
QuoteSorry, not to sound lazy, but I have real life obligations as well as server obligations.
Don't we all? The whole point is that you can set up a server to be almost entirely automated, if you actually put the time/effort into it BEFORE you go public.
QuoteHaving the staff partitioning the work is not only more efficient, but having more staffers around gives players access to nearly 24/7 technical and gameplay support, and frequent events aren't a bad idea either.
See, what I don't understand is what kind of player actually needs 24/7 support. It's not like you're running a credit card or insurance company, where people can have something go wrong at any time and need help immediately. It's a game that should be entirely self-contained. The only time I've ever needed a GM to fix an in-game bug for me was when the bug was due to the GM himself screwing around. Unless you screw with the code without knowing what you're doing, the game really does handle itself quite well. On the off chance that some bug does pop up and it's not anyone's fault, then players can e-mail the one head admin and get support within a day. That kind of thing shouldn't be popping up more than once or twice per patch, if you did your pre-launch job right. And game support? Are you kidding? A few years ago, I set my six-year old brother up on the game, and he never needed help from anyone, ever. RO is an EXTREMELY simplistic game, and if someone needs to bug a GM 24/7 for in-game support, I don't really need them on my server.
As for events... I'm split on this. On one hand, having GMs around to play host gives off a friendly feeling, in a way. It kind of gives the whole server a mom-and-pop, small town diner kind of feel. See, unless it's a super high rate server that thrives off constant action, why do you need GM-run events constantly? Any sort of low or mid rate, and even some of the lower-end high rate servers end up being thrown off balance by too many free event handouts. Doing things like constant unplanned trivia contests, mass spawning random mobs, dropping MvPs in towns, etc. is totally unnecessary and beyond unprofessioal. If you want to do those kinds of events (which I don't particularly like, but to each his own...), plan them and announce them well ahead of time, so it seems more professional and so that you can work it around your own schedule. Other common types of events, like hide and seek, scavenger hunts, lotteries, etc. can all be run by NPCs, which really aren't hard to set up. Generally speaking, the best events are the ones that are actually applied with sense and order, not the ones that cause a spontaneous burst of excitement and skill spam.
My problem right now isn't with servers that have a handful of GMs that are all responsible for in-game moderation, or just a team of people to discuss upcoming patches and events with. The problem is those servers that have a head admin, 2-3 regular GMs, an event GM, an advertising GM, 2 spriting GMs, and a couple of spare GMs that don't really have a job except to sit there and get spammed by noob begging. RMS even has a forum filled with people asking for any random GM position, without caring what sort of position they get or if they'll have an actual job at all. What's the point?
My most recent server has a team of 4 (or more?) GMs, and I'm really not sure why. The admin does a great job for the most part, and I've found that one of the other active GMs is generally helpful and courteous, aside from an occasional outburst of spawn/skill spamming. The unofficial "event" GM tends to sign on at random times, abuses the GM announcements to rant in broken English, then host some lame event that involves flooding one of the main cities with mobs too strong for the majority of players to kill. Then there's 3-4 other GM characters that pop up now and then, though I'm fairly sure some of them are alts of the GMs I already know. It's not just this server, either... It's been like this on every other server I've ever played, including the one that I staffed on a few years ago. The first two people could run the server by themselves, and we'd probably all be better off without any of the others.
Quote from: Edward on Aug 10, 2008, 03:23 PM
I doubt 1 person knows all, and if that 1 person knew all... he'd need to not have a life in order to run a successful server, because when you think about it...
I know how to do everything mentioned so far. I'm choosing not to do it right now because I do have other obligations, and I'd rather wait until I do have the time instead of doing a rushed and half-assed job right now. I'll be launching my server once I scale back my work hours and start school again, probably around December.
QuoteForum Moderating
Forum Support
Updates
Bug Fixes
Website
Patches
In-game Events
In-game Support
In-game Moderating
Answering e-mails
Giving Donations to Donators
That'll take up breakfast, lunch, and dinner along with the person's sleep. It's quite illogical... and if a server didn't have all those, it wouldn't be good at all.
Forum moderating isn't all that difficult while the population is still relatively low. There are always more players on the server than there are posts on the forum. Once it gets much higher, then yes, there probably will need to be someone in charge of moderating posts, but that's not what this topic is about.
Forum support that isn't part of daily moderation is pretty much non-existent. Set it up right the first time, add new features on your own time if necessary, and hope you don't get hacked.
Updates, bug fixes, and patches are all pretty much the same thing. The way I see it, if someone isn't willing to take the time to learn how to script game features correctly, patch them to the server, and instruct the players how to update on their end, then they shouldn't try to be a server admin. Getting ideas or even occasional programming tips from another person isn't unreasonable, but there's no need to reward said person with a position of power. Finally, none of these things are tasks that need to be done on a daily basis. Constant work is good, but if you have other things to do, it's not a big deal.
Anything regarding in-game events, support, and moderation, I've already covered before. Not much work should be needed, and the work that does need to be done can be done on your own time, as long as you give players the correct expectations before they register.
Answering e-mails is the only thing that I can see being a pain to maintain on a daily basis, but the problem is that chances are people will only want an answer from the head GM, or the answer requires something server-side that only the head GM can actually do. It's an unfortunate sacrifice, but if you can't set aside 20-30 min once every day or two for "urgent" support, then you probably should consider applying to be a GM on someone else's server instead of trying to run your own.
Donations can be handled by simply checking either daily or every two days, then adding the appropriate items to a player's inventory. Alternately, you could set up a token system so you give players tokens that can be traded to an NPC for their donation items. Isn't that what most people do now already anyway?
All things considered, this whole list should take maybe 30 min out of an average day, plus any extra time you want to spend on developing new features and custom items/quests/events/etc. That's a notable commitment, but if you can't manage it, why are you hosting a server?
tl;dr
Bah, what's the point in even bothering debating.. Get your server out there and successful with this formula and you'd make a believer out of this skeptic.
Some people have what it called leadership.
No one can do everything themselve.
Quote from: Scars on Aug 10, 2008, 11:43 PM
Some people have what it called leadership.
No one can do everything themselve.
I believe the OP was just saying that on relatively small servers or servers that are just starting out...there isn't that much of a need for multiple GMs. The OP also states that one or two GMs is actually enough to handle a server with a small population. Only when the server breaks out in the 50+ barrier should the current GMs consider opening a slot to better handle the demand (If there was).
The OP was also saying that you don't necessarily have to give everyone that helps out a GM account. If their intention is really to help you out, then a letter of appreciation and/or recognition should be enough. If someone wants to be a dev in your server, then by all means let them be...again it does not mean that you have to give them a GM account on your public server. They can pretty much relay to you what they are doing and you can implement them on your test server (Which I believe every server owner should have even if it's hosted in your own desktop computer).
And with that being said, forum moderators can just be forum moderators with their accounts still being normal accounts.
I'm still new to the RO community, however I'm not new to managing large communities. And pretty much keeping everything simple and the access level low or non existent helps keep the community together.
The thing is you have players or clients I believe from all around the globe with different time zones, and your human means you have emotions, gets tired, and get sick of answering the same question or doing the same thing over and over again. Even with GMs players much prefer to ask the head admin questions instead of the GMs.
Its really easier to manage, control and just make sure GMs doing their job and not doing things they aren't suppose to do. Most importantly sharing your vision with them so they know what is expected of them. Cause there are some really decent GMs out there that really can help you and make your job alot easier.
Do you really need to have a GM account to answer questions? Even if you have players from different time zones, you can always point them to a FAQ that you have made or someone in your community has made. You can pretty much assign certain people to answer questions regarding the server, but it doesn't mean that they have to have a GM account of some sort. I don't think it makes a difference at all if it's just question and answer. And besides I think you're missing the point that we're only talking about small servers in general. Of course if you have quite a lot of players in your server then things would be different.
Ok stop there,
GM account can mean a lot of thing.
I am saying you can't do everything your self.
If you say you can get players to help, sure that works.
I just would like to give them little authority, "GM Account"
(It has many level, different level have different commands, I am sure you know that).
So new players would at least know which person to ask when they need help.
P.S Yes some decent players can be more helpful then hired GMs.
Quote from: Firefly on Aug 10, 2008, 06:03 PM
Quote from: Edward on Aug 10, 2008, 03:23 PM
I doubt 1 person knows all, and if that 1 person knew all... he'd need to not have a life in order to run a successful server, because when you think about it...
I know how to do everything mentioned so far. I'm choosing not to do it right now because I do have other obligations, and I'd rather wait until I do have the time instead of doing a rushed and half-assed job right now. I'll be launching my server once I scale back my work hours and start school again, probably around December.
QuoteForum Moderating
Forum Support
Updates
Bug Fixes
Website
Patches
In-game Events
In-game Support
In-game Moderating
Answering e-mails
Giving Donations to Donators
That'll take up breakfast, lunch, and dinner along with the person's sleep. It's quite illogical... and if a server didn't have all those, it wouldn't be good at all.
Forum moderating isn't all that difficult while the population is still relatively low. There are always more players on the server than there are posts on the forum. Once it gets much higher, then yes, there probably will need to be someone in charge of moderating posts, but that's not what this topic is about.
Forum support that isn't part of daily moderation is pretty much non-existent. Set it up right the first time, add new features on your own time if necessary, and hope you don't get hacked.
Updates, bug fixes, and patches are all pretty much the same thing. The way I see it, if someone isn't willing to take the time to learn how to script game features correctly, patch them to the server, and instruct the players how to update on their end, then they shouldn't try to be a server admin. Getting ideas or even occasional programming tips from another person isn't unreasonable, but there's no need to reward said person with a position of power. Finally, none of these things are tasks that need to be done on a daily basis. Constant work is good, but if you have other things to do, it's not a big deal.
Anything regarding in-game events, support, and moderation, I've already covered before. Not much work should be needed, and the work that does need to be done can be done on your own time, as long as you give players the correct expectations before they register.
Answering e-mails is the only thing that I can see being a pain to maintain on a daily basis, but the problem is that chances are people will only want an answer from the head GM, or the answer requires something server-side that only the head GM can actually do. It's an unfortunate sacrifice, but if you can't set aside 20-30 min once every day or two for "urgent" support, then you probably should consider applying to be a GM on someone else's server instead of trying to run your own.
Donations can be handled by simply checking either daily or every two days, then adding the appropriate items to a player's inventory. Alternately, you could set up a token system so you give players tokens that can be traded to an NPC for their donation items. Isn't that what most people do now already anyway?
All things considered, this whole list should take maybe 30 min out of an average day, plus any extra time you want to spend on developing new features and custom items/quests/events/etc. That's a notable commitment, but if you can't manage it, why are you hosting a server?
From what I've read in your response, I can already tell you are not ready to open your own server. Your persona won't survive because you're headstrong and players will leave if you're not open minded. When you said...
"instruct the players how to update on their end", why don't you make your own patcher?
And you asked why I'm hosting a server? I,
alone, made one of the most successful high rate servers in the past. I know what it's like working alone, and I'm an all around guy. SurgeRO, was my successful server with 600+ people... now only 100, because I made mistakes.
Right now, I know what to do, what not to do... and my new server, idealRO will become one of the best. I'd suggest you'd wait and see, cause with a
team... I believe my efforts in making a great server will be amplified with the help of my 2 partners.
People sure like extrapolating the OPs statement.
He said:
"Small servers don't need an army of GMs, this is ridiculous and often just leads to the collapsing of the server."
The replies are reading:
"You are delirious if you think a single human can handle all the job that a server requires." And then toss examples of forums/emails/server support and whatnot as if you were an offshored staff support member in a 24/7 position.
I think people who are against the OP are simply misunderstanding what he meant :<
I do agree that if you want to be a good server owner, you should know pretty much all of the stuff mentioned up there. And since the server is small, you should be able to handle these things. You should have a small base of players from which you take suggestions, not a swarm of noobs that need constant hand-holding :/
@Edward- I will admit that I respect your experience here. If you don't mind, I'm curious about your planned server... What rates are you planning to have? Will it be lightly or heavily customized? And most importantly, what part of the work will you be delegating to your partners?
Quote from: Firefly on Aug 11, 2008, 11:45 AM
@Edward- I will admit that I respect your experience here. If you don't mind, I'm curious about your planned server... What rates are you planning to have? Will it be lightly or heavily customized? And most importantly, what part of the work will you be delegating to your partners?
Since I'm an all-around person, I've been working on everything. I have only 2 partners, one who I rely on creating the website, and the 2nd to script things in-game. I do both of those and moderate, hold events, and a lot more.
The rates/information/everything for my server is stated on http://www.idealro.com
Quote from: Skotlex on Aug 11, 2008, 06:27 AM
Yada Yada Yada OP Yada
Yeah even Skotlex can't run a server alone by himself.
Oh wait.
I can see your points, but I disagree.
I say it really depends on what you wanna do with your server. If you plan to implement lots of custom stuff you will need help or it will take a while. Also, people have lives, jobs/school and such, they may not dedicate all their time to the server.
I got more than 1 gm on my server and I don't feel I could do it alone at all. We break the 50-70 players you mentioned mind you (150+), but even at the start we were a team of 6. I can't keep up with all the ideas we have, we're always working on something new and we got a ton of custom unique quests/systems. If you're working on a uncustomized small server you might pull it off, but what if you need vacation? You're going away for 2 weeks and the server is not taken care of -_-
It's nice to have GMs who can take care of recurrent tasks, it may seem easy to run a server but it's harder than it looks. You always have players who manage to mess up their install and need assistance, or have no sound, crashes for whatever reason... or there's a problem in game with others players, KSers, spammers, people who insult others or misbehave, there's bot cheks to do unless you want a server full of bots, players like varied events to entertain them, etc. etc. etc.
Also, as much as I love eAthena it's far from perfect, there are glitches to fix, broken npc scripts sometimes and wrong information. Also players will want you to keep your servers up to date, guess what? more glitches when you svn update XD
Does the admin need to be a well rounded person who know what they are doing? yes, definately.
Can they do everything themselves? It depends.
Is it bad to delegate? I definately don't think so, in fact I find it necessary ^_^
If you're afraid of corruption you can have moderators (level 20 gm) who can't create nor drop item, nor spawn monster. They can handle player questions, bot checks, player relations (KS, verbal abuse and such) at least, then the 1 admin can handle the rest.
Quote from: Pandora on Aug 11, 2008, 04:41 PM
We break the 50-70 players you mentioned mind you (150+), but even at the start we were a team of 6. I can't keep up with all the ideas we have, we're always working on something new and we got a ton of custom unique quests/systems.
Maybe you wouldn't have so many ideas if you had less people to think about them.
Quote from: Anti-Static Foam Cleaner on Aug 12, 2008, 12:59 AM
Quote from: Pandora on Aug 11, 2008, 04:41 PM
We break the 50-70 players you mentioned mind you (150+), but even at the start we were a team of 6. I can't keep up with all the ideas we have, we're always working on something new and we got a ton of custom unique quests/systems.
Maybe you wouldn't have so many ideas if you had less people to think about them.
LOL, true that.
But then the server wouldn't be so unique.
Then again, most of the ideas come from me, I'm a good 'project-starter', but there's not enough hours in a day to do all I want.
i think i can sum up my entire opinion of this with a single quote
"Alone a twig is simply a twig, but together many twigs can create a master piece of art. Each supported perfectly by the other, each kept in line, each kept in balance, each kept perfectly in place."
Quote from: Anti-Static Foam Cleaner on Aug 12, 2008, 12:59 AM
Quote from: Pandora on Aug 11, 2008, 04:41 PM
We break the 50-70 players you mentioned mind you (150+), but even at the start we were a team of 6. I can't keep up with all the ideas we have, we're always working on something new and we got a ton of custom unique quests/systems.
Maybe you wouldn't have so many ideas if you had less people to think about them.
So you are saying that having lots good ideas and actually having the man-power to develope them to make your server better is a bad thing........ I hate to get into this discussing but damn you aren't making sense.
Example, right now on SocialRO we only have 2 devs and me (I don't include myself in devs because i'm only good with NPC scripting) and we really wish we had more to get all our ideas and work completed faster....so i strongly agree wiht Pandora in that delegating work to a large staff is necessary to get work done in reasonable time.
Hell I think Firefly was being generous. It's basically you don't need ANY GMs but if you you want to do events or enforce rules for than use one at the most. Hell if you need to get on a GM account to deal with an issue you have pretty much admitted that you aren't doing a good job as a developer. And isn't that the point from the server creators end? Isn't game-design/developing the whole reason you set one up or are using something as robust as eA and not just setting up a half-assed WoW server? If there is some problem with KSing why would you want to go through screenshots and ban people instead of inventing a creative system to stop it? Why spawn mobs with a command when you can create a mob invasion system?
As well nothing in the post said anything about not having multiple developers. I don't know why people give out GM accounts willy nilly, just because someone is your best friend, coded some event or set up your website doesn't mean they need to be "rewarded" with a GM account. That is really the issue here, not that you can't have someone code in poring races for you because you got other priorities. Very little actually needs to be done in game, and as much as I love everyones vague philosophical points about "one man not being and army" and "rah-rah teamwork", I'm not actually seeing any actual reasons being given that you need more than one GM at the very most (and even that is pushing it!)
Edit: Oh wait Pandora did get into specifics (figures!). Let's go point by point then:
Technical Support: Chatroom, forums whatever, totally no need for GMs.
KS: That would seem pretty simple, don't reward exp if you aren't the first player to hit the monster and aren't in the same party as well as probably have the mob be disowned when the player isn't on screen or something (Skot did something similar with loot on Mou)
Spammers/Insulting: Just have ignore work on all forms of chat. Hell if you want to get fun with the system since your on a larger server you could have it be that certain users are auto-ignored by default when enough people set ignore (though boy does that sound dangerous).
Bot check: Again could be player controlled, and hell some people are so zealous about bot hunting I'm surprised more servers have not just given those frequent screenshoters the ability to do it themselves. That or you know...actual gameplay solutions to discourage botters (but that gets more out of the kRO mould when you start doing that).
Events: As Firefly said, all that stuff can be done by NPCs or hell just run by the players. Certainly the last thing you want to do is have anyone spawning items and money...that just breeds begging.
Sounds pretty impersonal and boring if all your events run automatically....players never see GMs ingame to ask questions or to just hang out and talk with. I think the extesively planned out and complex events conducted with an ingame GM are way more fun than some event map spawning mobs every 12 hours lol...no offense.
Also, i know this sounds egotistical but.....to work hard all the time on a server and never getting to go ingame and to see if people like/dislike your new updates takes the joy out of working on the server. I take great pride making my players happy or atleast not bored. Thats a good reason why Devs should have GM accounts.
Quote from: Thorin on Aug 12, 2008, 08:50 PM
Quote from: Anti-Static Foam Cleaner
Maybe you wouldn't have so many ideas if you had less people to think about them.
So you are saying that having lots good ideas and actually having the man-power to develope them to make your server better is a bad thing.
No.*
I am saying that all people have ideas. If you have one guy on the team, he will have, let's say, 2 ideas. If you have two, it will be 4 ideas or more, because they will talk to each other and give each other ideas. The number of ideas should rise exponentially with each new member. Not only that, as many people talk about ideas, they tend to make additions to them, making them more complicated. If you have 5 people you have a lot of ideas, and if the only solution is to add more people, it's an endless loop because the more people you add the more ideas you get and you'll always be short on manpower.
Probably.
I just came up with it, I don't have any psychological study to back it up.
* - Actually I'm a big opponent of customs, so you could say yes, but that's not even the point of the discussion.
Quote from: Thorin on Aug 12, 2008, 10:52 PM
Also, i know this sounds egotistical but.....to work hard all the time on a server and never getting to go ingame and to see if people like/dislike your new updates takes the joy out of working on the server. I take great pride making my players happy or atleast not bored. Thats a good reason why Devs should have GM accounts.
Uh. Are you implying that the game maintainers/developers would never play their own damn-game if they didn't have a GM account? Isn't that.... a ridiculous statement?
Firefly had some good points, some server do have pointlessly too many people in their staff, I'm not saying otherwise. But I think a 2 people staff is a minimum, like I said what if you have to go on vacation? or if you get sick? or just plain old need a break for real life issues to solve? It's good to have at least 1 person you can rely on in case of problems so your server is always taken care of. Also having more than 1 perspective is usually good to resolve issues.
Bulba: while I understand your point and I know you play on a no-gm server, most players on private servers like to see GMs around in game. It makes your server look active and alive, players like to chat with GMs, it may seem silly but it's true. Also, many prefer to ask a GM directly in game rather than making a support ticket or writing a post in forums. While it's 100% time more practical for the staff to get a support ticket that each gm see it's hard to get players to actually get out of the game and do it.
Anti-Static Foam Cleaner is right, more people does mean more ideas, but you can still prioritize and say "this idea is good, but let's keep it for next year and concentrate on project xyz for now". So more people mean more idea, but doesn't mean you gotta do them all, also not everyone is equally imaginative, so some wont really put ideas on the table, but will still work hard on the tasks assigned to them.
Quote from: bulbasteve on Aug 12, 2008, 09:15 PM
Hell I think Firefly was being generous. It's basically you don't need ANY GMs but if you you want to do events or enforce rules for than use one at the most. Hell if you need to get on a GM account to deal with an issue you have pretty much admitted that you aren't doing a good job as a developer. And isn't that the point from the server creators end? Isn't game-design/developing the whole reason you set one up or are using something as robust as eA and not just setting up a half-assed WoW server? If there is some problem with KSing why would you want to go through screenshots and ban people instead of inventing a creative system to stop it? Why spawn mobs with a command when you can create a mob invasion system?
As well nothing in the post said anything about not having multiple developers. I don't know why people give out GM accounts willy nilly, just because someone is your best friend, coded some event or set up your website doesn't mean they need to be "rewarded" with a GM account. That is really the issue here, not that you can't have someone code in poring races for you because you got other priorities. Very little actually needs to be done in game, and as much as I love everyones vague philosophical points about "one man not being and army" and "rah-rah teamwork", I'm not actually seeing any actual reasons being given that you need more than one GM at the very most (and even that is pushing it!)
Edit: Oh wait Pandora did get into specifics (figures!). Let's go point by point then:
Technical Support: Chatroom, forums whatever, totally no need for GMs.
KS: That would seem pretty simple, don't reward exp if you aren't the first player to hit the monster and aren't in the same party as well as probably have the mob be disowned when the player isn't on screen or something (Skot did something similar with loot on Mou)
Spammers/Insulting: Just have ignore work on all forms of chat. Hell if you want to get fun with the system since your on a larger server you could have it be that certain users are auto-ignored by default when enough people set ignore (though boy does that sound dangerous).
Bot check: Again could be player controlled, and hell some people are so zealous about bot hunting I'm surprised more servers have not just given those frequent screenshoters the ability to do it themselves. That or you know...actual gameplay solutions to discourage botters (but that gets more out of the kRO mould when you start doing that).
Events: As Firefly said, all that stuff can be done by NPCs or hell just run by the players. Certainly the last thing you want to do is have anyone spawning items and money...that just breeds begging.
Cool, I guess we're all eA devs now and are fully capable of doing what you suggest.
Are you capable of doing what you suggest?
He's got a point, we're not all like the mighty Skotlex ^_^;
Quote from: Pandora on Aug 13, 2008, 02:28 PM
He's got a point, we're not all like the mighty Skotlex ^_^;
The OP is talking originally about stock eA servers that have little in the way of customizations. You know, the way most servers start like? It has nothing to do with things like MouRO or HeRO, it's a lot more about RO servers that are a lot closer to official servers, but with a few config changes. You don't need a team for that, that's what I understood from his post.
Quote from: Pandora on Aug 13, 2008, 09:10 AM
Bulba: while I understand your point and I know you play on a no-gm server, most players on private servers like to see GMs around in game. It makes your server look active and alive, players like to chat with GMs, it may seem silly but it's true. Also, many prefer to ask a GM directly in game rather than making a support ticket or writing a post in forums. While it's 100% time more practical for the staff to get a support ticket that each gm see it's hard to get players to actually get out of the game and do it.
But then why do they need to be actual GMs? Give them a sprite and a special announce when they log in or whatever, but why would your glorified help desk need to be able to spawn items or summon mobs?
Hell why should ANY of them be the special GM class and be able to get crazy stats? If people insist on having powers they should only be given conservatively for what their role on the team is and as additions to normal accounts and not special ones.
Descent: Me? No. But half the things I used were done on Mou already and even the original poster talked about simple things like perfect ignore.
Sure a script soloution for something like bot-hunting would be only in Skots league but most of the stuff seems pretty easy, and if it isn't do you really need a GM because someone is say, KSing? Maybe the players should just grow up for most of it.
And if it's more serious like botting then what point is there for a GM account? People hunt bots and send in screenshots so most of the time people aren't banning on a GM-account anyway, they are banning as the server owner. Rarely is there anything a GM sees first hand, and you would certainly be a bad GM if you banned first and asked questions later.
Skot: Well sure but aside events I have not heard of anything that actually needs to be done on an actual GM account. And if they were really a kRO clone server which isn't about the elegant coding solutions why would they be doing so many damn events anyway? I mean geez back in the stone age of iRO I played for a solid year before I even saw one event (and I think there was all of two GMs for the whole game of a few thousand people!) and that was just monster invasions and like one game of hide and seek that I ever saw on my years playing. The GMs were busy doing their job...you know, cause thats the point of GMs, they bot hunt and ban guys, they aren't there to chitchat.
It's funny that so many servers call themselves "professional" when they both don't actually know anything about coding and if they are a stock server they sure don't act like the actual real servers.
Quote from: Skotlex on Aug 13, 2008, 02:43 PM
Quote from: Pandora on Aug 13, 2008, 02:28 PM
He's got a point, we're not all like the mighty Skotlex ^_^;
The OP is talking originally about stock eA servers that have little in the way of customizations. You know, the way most servers start like? It has nothing to do with things like MouRO or HeRO, it's a lot more about RO servers that are a lot closer to official servers, but with a few config changes. You don't need a team for that, that's what I understood from his post.
Yeah but what bulba is saying is that with a "few modifications" you don't need GMs, modifications like mouro, which are not necessarily easy for the average admin. I think I can do my fair share of coding, but not everyone can, I thought eA made an emulator so that most people don't have to play in the source code you know? xD
@Bulba there are different levels of GM, I wholeheartedly agree that someone doing only support/bot checks needs level 20 gm (no @item/@monster), but he's still a GM, in the sense of the title.
Most bots on my server are found by gm who do a round of "bot check" on each player online, sure there are a few found by players too but not the majority. We have lots of events too and that requires GM. Each server works differently and that's fine, some server might pull it off with just 1 GM, and some can't, different philosophies require different kind of staff.
Do you really need a GM because someone is say, KSing? Yes you can need a gm to solve that. If the person only does it once, who cares it can be an honest mistake, but some people make it a habit to be as disagreeable as possible until they get banned, yes players "can" ignore it, but if it's really overboard they shouldn't have to, they should be able to play and have fun without having their experience ruined by someone else.
As for chitchating, what seems useless/unprofessional to one person may be fun for another, many players like to chat with GMs, I find it kinda funny too, because in the end the GM is just another player but with a fancy suit, but I guess they feel special or something.
Quote from: bulbasteve on Aug 13, 2008, 06:22 PM
But then why do they need to be actual GMs? Give them a sprite and a special announce when they log in or whatever, but why would your glorified help desk need to be able to spawn items or summon mobs?
Hell why should ANY of them be the special GM class and be able to get crazy stats? If people insist on having powers they should only be given conservatively for what their role on the team is and as additions to normal accounts and not special ones.
Descent: Me? No. But half the things I used were done on Mou already and even the original poster talked about simple things like perfect ignore.
Sure a script soloution for something like bot-hunting would be only in Skots league but most of the stuff seems pretty easy, and if it isn't do you really need a GM because someone is say, KSing? Maybe the players should just grow up for most of it.
And if it's more serious like botting then what point is there for a GM account? People hunt bots and send in screenshots so most of the time people aren't banning on a GM-account anyway, they are banning as the server owner. Rarely is there anything a GM sees first hand, and you would certainly be a bad GM if you banned first and asked questions later.
Skot: Well sure but aside events I have not heard of anything that actually needs to be done on an actual GM account. And if they were really a kRO clone server which isn't about the elegant coding solutions why would they be doing so many damn events anyway? I mean geez back in the stone age of iRO I played for a solid year before I even saw one event (and I think there was all of two GMs for the whole game of a few thousand people!) and that was just monster invasions and like one game of hide and seek that I ever saw on my years playing. The GMs were busy doing their job...you know, cause thats the point of GMs, they bot hunt and ban guys, they aren't there to chitchat.
It's funny that so many servers call themselves "professional" when they both don't actually know anything about coding and if they are a stock server they sure don't act like the actual real servers.
Hey, bulba. Private servers vary from one to the next. There's no right or wrong way to do anything. What works for MouRO might not work for Pandora's server, and what works for CorrosiveRO might not work for ShoopDaWoopRO, so on and so forth. Granted, I'm just as guilty for the first posts I made in this thread as well. The way you come off, you sound like one of those people who saw some server corruption and are now on some sort of campaign to stop it...
I think I can easily go out on a limb and say that nobody really cares how you run your server, same like nobody really cares how I or anybody else do it. We do what works for us, whatever, we don't need to be pegged "unprofessional" because of how server owners choose to do things.
To be honest, the whole one GM thing is a bit unrealistic, but oh look...opinion.
Quote from: bulbasteveBut then why do they need to be actual GMs? Give them a sprite and a special announce when they log in or whatever, but why would your glorified help desk need to be able to spawn items or summon mobs?
Hell why should ANY of them be the special GM class and be able to get crazy stats? If people insist on having powers they should only be given conservatively for what their role on the team is and as additions to normal accounts and not special ones.
My, you've shown me the light. I'll go revamp my staff right now.
Well part of that he's saying is basically that one way to avoid some corruption is to give your gm only as much power as they need to do their job, and that part I do agree with.
Quote from: Pandora on Aug 15, 2008, 08:19 AM
Well part of that he's saying is basically that one way to avoid some corruption is to give your gm only as much power as they need to do their job, and that part I do agree with.
^ This. When you get a bunch of incompetent "staff" running amok on your server and abusing commands they don't need on a whim, you have a problem. I've said this before, but
no GM needs @item (and @item is just the tip of the iceberg) - which is why, as far as I'm concerned, it's an admin-only command. Same with about 90% of the others. I don't necessarily agree with the OP - but I also generally have 600+ players online at a time, and one GM would get a little overwhelmed. (To emphasise this, about 0.7 seconds after logging in-game my screen generally looks something like this:)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v636/odetta/screenEssenceRO314.jpg)
But, the above also illustrates that in the vast majority of cases, most instances of a player looking for a GM in game are questions that can be easily answered in 10 seconds, and I'd rather my forums weren't cluttered with 273738392 of these. Most of the questions could also be answered by another player in town - but a GM sprite is easily recognisable and instantly associated with someone acting in a support capacity, so it's the preferable alternative as far as I'm concerned. But, similarly, a glorified helpdesk GM does not need more than the absolute bare minimum of commands - @goto, @warp, @broadcast and similar, and nothing beyond this.
On any moderate to large server, Enforcement GMs are also 100% necessary - however much you do to counteract it, there will always be bots, and these should be dealt with as quickly as possible. Obviously, this means handing out some higher level commands to certain staff members - but this is also why I make sure all Enforcement staff document religiously every single instance of punishment they hand out. This helps to ensure things aren't being abused, but it also protects the staff themselves - it's pretty hard to contest a punishment if I can pull up a report detailing exactly why they were punished with timestamps, screenshots and IP addresses in about 5 seconds.
Going wildly off-topic, cutting this short.
tldr version; GMs might not be 100% necessary on all servers, but they are useful. It's just down to whomever is in charge to make sure they're acting responsibly and limiting what they can and cannot do to the absolutely necessities for their role.
i think that if a server gets run by one gm, he will die in less then a month :3
Heh.
I've played on a server where there is only 1 admin. The server lasted for 6 months and only closed because the admin had to further his study. (Note: The server owner hosted his server at home)
Well that's the thing if you only have 1 person, the server is solely dependent on that admin, and if he/she loses interest in RO or cannot continue for real life issues, injuries or whatnot the server goes bye bye. If you have 2 people at least, if one decides to leave the other is still there and can look for a co-staff to help.
From an original team of 6 admin on my server I'm the only one left, 4 left to go play WOW and the other had to concentrate on university. The staff changed a lot, but the server is still there.
It's best not to put all your eggs in one basket, even if it can technically work out with just 1 admin, it's risky.
Well, I currently am the only person in charge of everything on Melona Ragnarok Online, with 25-35 players online, oh no vendors, I think I am capable of running the server just fine, although I had promised the players and myself that, once the server reaches 50 players, there would be more staff members. :3
Best Regards,
Melona~
This would really depend on the person itself.
Some server aspects would come into play, drama, population.
But in the end it would depend on the Admin's control level, if he/she can handle everything, has the time to do it all, and dealing with the stress.
I believe in having a GM team, people that really want to contribute to the server and want to see your goal met. Not having to do all the work yourself, but building trust and relying on others.
QuoteRe: A truly good server should not need more than one GM.
A truly good server should have at least 1000 players, therefore you will need more then one GM for a truly good server.
I do hope I'll get there.
Quote from: Scars on Aug 21, 2008, 09:08 PM
QuoteRe: A truly good server should not need more than one GM.
A truly good server should have at least 1000 players, therefore you will need more then one GM for a truly good server.
I do hope I'll get there.
Isn't ideals such a nice thing? But dude... in theory, theory and practice are the same. In practice, they are not.
The only servers who have tons of players only managed to get there by... having lots of players and not pissing off their players too much. Perhaps lots of cheating in the voting sites, but that's speculation from my part.
I'd think that the population is the biggest incentive to bring people to a server, it's a snow-ball effect, and unless you do a hideaous job at pissing off your players, it will keep going as long as the server has exposure. Population + Ads = More Population. Snowball effect.
I am not saying all the 1000+ population server is a truly good server no.
What I am saying is 1000+ population is the first step to a truly good server, because ragnarok mmorpg requires that minimal amount of player to maximize its features.
Scars has a point, if your population isn't high enough then things like the god items quests simply don't work, and things like WoE and PvP don't become as active as most would hope/like and certain events become hard to use
and if those things become inactive/unused/difficult that too can affect the number of GM's one needs
There's no real definition of what a "truly good server" is. It just depends on whether you think it's good or not.
If there's a server that is ran by one GM and I think it's good, then it's good.
If there's a server that is ran by more than one GM and I think it's good, then it's good.
It's just easier to run a server with more than one GM, but having more GMs doesn't exactly mean it'll be better, just easier.
What's a truly good server? Lol.
Quote from: Scars on Aug 27, 2008, 01:46 AM
I am not saying all the 1000+ population server is a truly good server no.
What I am saying is 1000+ population is the first step to a truly good server, because ragnarok mmorpg requires that minimal amount of player to maximize its features.
Or you know, have a server owner capable of designing the game in such a way as to work for a low number of players. And I sure would rather play a small server with someone who knows what he is doing and trying to be creative as opposed to someone who just downloaded eA turned on a few options and put up a server that is well advertised.
You are wrong. A normal server needs only one GM. The kind of server, like RevengeRO in-making, that is total hard core work for yourself and takes the fun out of everything, YES, you need help, and well duh, im sure all admin's do enjoy and thank god for the help they recieve by their staff. A staff is all about teamwork, its time consuming, stressful, and HARD to manage a server perfectly.
Yes, you can do it by yourself, but it will get boring.
I know all of this from experience, so listen. Take all the help you can get, you will thank yourself in the long run. Now, im not saying for a brand new server go hire 10 GM's. A server should never have more then 10, even with 1k+ players online. 10 is even over doing it. It is about teamwork mate, how much staff do you think Gravity has? Alot. We all know it. They hire the help because its impossible to do alone.
Quote from: bulbasteve on Aug 27, 2008, 06:35 PM
Quote from: Scars on Aug 27, 2008, 01:46 AM
I am not saying all the 1000+ population server is a truly good server no.
What I am saying is 1000+ population is the first step to a truly good server, because ragnarok mmorpg requires that minimal amount of player to maximize its features.
Or you know, have a server owner capable of designing the game in such a way as to work for a low number of players. And I sure would rather play a small server with someone who knows what he is doing and trying to be creative as opposed to someone who just downloaded eA turned on a few options and put up a server that is well advertised.
I see where you coming from, but still, maybe a well manage low population server > crappy management 1000+ player server
But
for me a well manage 1000+ > a well manage low population server.
Posted on: Aug 27, 2008, 12:27 pm
Quoteauthor=Melona link=topic=5943.msg39195#msg39195 date=1219359855]
Well, I currently am the only person in charge of everything on Melona Ragnarok Online, with 25-35 players online, oh no vendors, I think I am capable of running the server just fine, although I had promised the players and myself that, once the server reaches 50 players, there would be more staff members. :3
Best Regards,
Melona~
And its dead now.
QuoteI tried out Melona RO around that time it was all fked up and inbalanced its dead now anyway =] crappy admin.
Quoteno1 liked how she managed the server
Quotehence why maximum players was 3
All the quote is from your player.
y'know, I kinda feel like this whole argument is a moot point.
a good server may not need more than one GM. ...but why wouldn't it be better to have more than one?
with multiple GMs, there's a better checks-and-balances system among them. less room for corruption.
plus, the workload gets lightened. people, even the GMs, sometimes do have a life outside of RO, and can't do everything. and even if they can, what if something happens to the sole GM on the server - net goes down or what-have-you? why keep all your eggs in one basket?
people generally like to see an GM on and active in the server quite a bit. I think this could be best handled with at least two GMs - going back to the why-keep-your-eggs-in-one-basket argument.
in general, two heads are better than one!
this isn't to say "the more the merrier," or that there isn't a point where there's TOO MANY GMs. that point definitely exists - but two GMs is not it.
Scars' post was epic.
1 person staff, what if that person is terrible at running servers?
Server go bye-bye.
I've seen this thing somewhere:
QuoteOn russian server this programme was made by two guys - very good coders and hackers, allowed them to earn more then 1m$ from their's server.
QuoteThere're clearly NO bots. No cheater/WPErs/ROAPers/Lockers/whatever the hell you wanna call them. You actually can research and translate with google (or w\e) if you aren't that lazy, but you better just believe me: WHOLE Russian (Ro orientated) Inet community whining about it, cussing and spitting at the Head Admin of that server, begging for the bot config, for any money they can get and still. Still no cheaters over there. They pop up randomly sometimes though, but little source updates (which come out daily/weekly) fix the exploits and make the persons who use(d) them banned.
As I said, just google these things, if you don't believe us.
Two person living in the both corners of the world is much more of a pretty good team ( west and east of course).
Maybe the only reason for multiple GM'S is this
1 not everyone on ro speaks english they may have a GM that is supposed to be able to talk to these people.
2 Not all the GM's can be on at once if there was only one GM they would have to be on constantly to help,answer questions,etc
some of them are only event GM's others are there to inforce the rules