Inb4 drama thread, swt. Itll get locked anyway once a few posts come up but meh, at least this thread stays to complete the impression ARO makes on rms.
Ive been a long term Animaro and anthemro player. Ive gone through some head gm changes, like debbie, Harken, and now talis.
to say it in advance, i got banned of Anthemro, due to a pretty silly misunderstanding.
Ive been with an actually good friend there for like 3 years, said friend and i have gone through good and bad times. we Donated here and there, he donated more than me though. Anyway, a bit ago he told me hed quit the server. Thats not the first time he said that, however, he seems to be serious this time. He told me hed have spent all his zeny now, and with that hed be gone. I could have all the stuff and do as i wish.
Sadly i didnt screeny that in game. (i had the msn logs though, as they auto save)
after he and i had a long talk he went off. I wanted to make sure if he was being serious or not, and i was under the impression that he was serious.
When he logged off, i began to get all our items to my account. We owned quite a bit, mainly because he donated a lot. My part of the gear was smaller than his obviously.
anyway, i put the stuff on my accounts and then, i changed my password. Not to stop him from getting back our stuff, but to limit the access of the stuff as we let many other less wealthy people use our stuff. If hed have ask me id of course let him get his stuff back.
Anyway, i went to bed. Next morning, i wake up. My pm box was filled with many pms. I also noticed a ranters thread, and a report against me. Especially the ranters thread was quite hurtful, as it contained many things he knew about me as a person in real life.
He was totally agressive towards me, said he didnt mean it as he said, however i was so hurted that i wouldnt just give up as well. i mean imagine a close friend of you declaring you suddenly as a scammer etc.
So i fought against the report, found the msn logs of him saying the stuff would be mine, etc.
Now, i knew anthemro asks a lot of $ for item recoverys. For the total amount of sqi and stuff we owned, id be a total of like 2.5k $ or pretty close to that amount.
Now guess who won the report fight? Yes, my friend did, he paid 2,5k $ (yes thats totally insane) and i got banned on all my chars for item theft, which is sad enough, as i didnt steal anything, especially if you consider that even if id have scammed him, the rules say that everyone is responsible for his own account information.
Anyway, he got all the items back, which was ok actually since opinions can be different, but i also got banned, which i think is totally unfair. Probably to shut me down.
I dont know what else played a role into this fight. He and i know the server owner Felix, even though he is a closer friend of him, especially cause Felix's wife, is my friends ex gf.
however i have no prove if that played a role or not, but yea, of course i think of that too.
Anyway, to make this "rant" a review; anthemro is a total donation server after all. The new gms failed me. If you have money, and are willing to pay a lot of money, you can have anything on this server. Id even go so far to say rule immunity, seeing how my friend bypassed all the account related rules in this report, only because of the donation fee he was going to pay.
I have to admit, i was wrong in defending the server for such a long time. I feel sorry for actually having put thrust into the new self claimed "non corrupt" gm team.
Many people of this server have their opinion about this now. Some think i am a scammer and totally planned it (Which is funny, since i wash is friend for 3 years. id totally wait 3 years to scamm someone, it makes sense, really) and some think, i was in the right. that doesnt play a role anymore though.
In the end i cant advice anyone to play this server anymore, because of said money issue, but also because of what the server has turned into. animaro was kind of balanced non donators could get as rich as donators. However, thats not possible anymore, the economy is dead. donators rule the prices and thats it.
Anyway, ill probably get flamed. People may think about me what the wish. it doesnt mean anything to me to be virtually hated. However, i felt like i had to post that about anthemro. Id have a lot more to say about the gms however, thatd probably exceed the post limit. /swt
Sad that such a skill full aegis gm team has turned out to be this money greedy. I wonder if this kind of donation server is even legal, as its not a donation server anymore, but close to a pay2play server.
Good day anthemro.
Quote from: DeePee on Mar 08, 2010, 05:23 AM
Quote from: bensei on Mar 08, 2010, 05:19 AM
he paid 2,5k $
What.
The.
Hell.
well im not sure what amount exactly it was, i just did the math and sumed up the items we owned. and yes, its totally insane to pay this much. =I
i did donated maybe a few $ too, but over the 3 years it wouldnt be more than maybe 50$, lol.
bensei, i believe it. I'm Lynn Leblanc and I got banned for something I didn't do, and those who actually did it, didn't get banned.
You have to pay for item recovery?! Rofl.
Servers like these are exactly what's wrong with Ragnarok Online.
Inb4 Anthem fanboys/fangirls show up and say "QQ MOAR U LOSE".
There's nothing wrong with an item recovery fee. Usually it's people who are stupid enough to share their password or lend out their gear and lose their stuff like that. If there's hundreds of recoveries to be done like that, it takes up a s*** load of time y'know. Especially if the person who took the items traded the items a few times between various accounts, then sold them to various other players, etc. Players should realize that the GMs are not always available to clean up all the mess they make for free. That's what a recovery fee is for. But $2.5k (if it's true)...? That's extreme.
Also...I believe aRO is one of the only servers who can actually do complicated item recoveries? Seeing that eAthena does not have a Unique ID bound to every item ingame, which pretty much makes it hard to trace where every item went to.
well do the mathit was like 35 different sqi of like every weapon sqi, 4 sets accessoire sqi (3x2 brisingamen; 1x2 Megs etc) and then the normal gears, wich are like 5-10 $ ea. Those were a big part too, as i had lots of complete armor sets, angel wing ears sets. garment sets shield sets and not to forgot all the random mvp carded weapons.
you see it sums up quite quickly. =/
as i said i cant tell if its exactly 2.5k $ but its pretty much something arround that number.
Quote from: DeePee on Mar 08, 2010, 01:01 PM
There's nothing wrong with an item recovery fee. Usually it's people who are stupid enough to share their password or lend out their gear and lose their stuff like that. If there's hundreds of recoveries to be done like that, it takes up a s*** load of time y'know. Especially if the person who took the items traded the items a few times between various accounts, then sold them to various other players, etc. Players should realize that the GMs are not always available to clean up all the mess they make for free. That's what a recovery fee is for. But $2.5k (if it's true)...? That's extreme.
Also...I believe aRO is one of the only servers who can actually do complicated item recoveries? Seeing that eAthena does not have a Unique ID bound to every item ingame, which pretty much makes it hard to trace where every item went to.
So you're saying it's okay to charge people for something that they can't recover on their own. Stupid or not, this is one of the jobs of a server administrator. If the application was different, say...a server for a company and files got lost, does the server administrator for the company charge for it? No, part of that job is ensuring that the server runs efficiently and that file integrity is secure and safe. This is why I'm calling bollocks, and yet another cash grab by a greedy admin/Staff.
Takes up their time? Boo-hoo. If they didn't want to deal with it, they shouldn't have opened a server. Let's face it, the collective IQ of a head of celery would trump that of the average group of RO players, you jump feet-first into the fray, you're going to deal with what comes with it. You can't just slap a fee on it and say "Oh well, it's our time and effort".
Last I checked, RO servers weren't run for profit, and surprise, surprise...this is one of them.
Quote from: Temjin on Mar 08, 2010, 01:42 PM
Quote from: DeePee on Mar 08, 2010, 01:01 PM
There's nothing wrong with an item recovery fee. Usually it's people who are stupid enough to share their password or lend out their gear and lose their stuff like that. If there's hundreds of recoveries to be done like that, it takes up a s*** load of time y'know. Especially if the person who took the items traded the items a few times between various accounts, then sold them to various other players, etc. Players should realize that the GMs are not always available to clean up all the mess they make for free. That's what a recovery fee is for. But $2.5k (if it's true)...? That's extreme.
Also...I believe aRO is one of the only servers who can actually do complicated item recoveries? Seeing that eAthena does not have a Unique ID bound to every item ingame, which pretty much makes it hard to trace where every item went to.
So you're saying it's okay to charge people for something that they can't recover on their own. Stupid or not, this is one of the jobs of a server administrator. If the application was different, say...a server for a company and files got lost, does the server administrator for the company charge for it? No, part of that job is ensuring that the server runs efficiently and that file integrity is secure and safe. This is why I'm calling bollocks, and yet another cash grab by a greedy admin/Staff.
Takes up their time? Boo-hoo. If they didn't want to deal with it, they shouldn't have opened a server. Let's face it, the collective IQ of a head of celery would trump that of the average group of RO players, you jump feet-first into the fray, you're going to deal with what comes with it. You can't just slap a fee on it and say "Oh well, it's our time and effort".
Last I checked, RO servers weren't run for profit, and surprise, surprise...this is one of them.
People agree with this matter when they join the server. Their accounts and items are
their responsibility. If they break these rules by lending out items or sharing passwords, it's their own responsibility. Now the server offers to recover their gears (and really, there are not many servers that are even
able to do so) and they ask a recovery fee for that as, indeed, a slap in the face. The person who lost the items broke the rules and will have to face the consequences if (s)he wants to recover the items. On most servers you'll be screwed if you lose your items.
And saying you should just live with it as a GM is easy to say. It can take hours per case to solve something like this. Now imagine a server with hundreds of players who regularly lose their items. Yes, that's easily tens/hundreds of item recoveries, all taking quite some hours
each to solve. Doing something like that for free will let players abuse the hell out of a service like that. They will go "Oh, sure you can have these items, the GMs will recover them anyway if you steal them", which can't honestly be good.
The job of a GM is to manage the server, not to solely do item recoveries for players who are dumb enough to lose them all the time. Having to spend all your time doing this instead of working on improving the server is just silly.
Also, I'm just saying there's nothing wrong with a recovery fee in general. This does not per-say mean a recovery fee in terms of real money, but could also be a zeny fee.
http://websiteoutlook.com/www.anthemro.com
first of all..... wow lynn, wth. Didnt know that one O.o;
Well deepee, i agree with you to some degree. However, i find it ridiculous how its still called a "donation -FEE" Its really a contradiction. i mean, i either donate and eventually get a reward from the one i donated too, or a server has a set price list of services it offers, which can be obtained by paying a price.
Im not sure if what aro does is still lega too, i mean yea its called donation, however isnt there a rule of what is actually still considered a Donation?
Well, i know Talis is german and lives not too far away from me. By german law he has to pay taxes, which i know he does pay. Im still really confused if its totally legal, to label his incoming money a Donation.
Hello,
first I'd like to ask a mod to move this thread to "Rants and Rave", since this does not qualify as a review.
@Topic: That's exactly why on some servers account sharing is forbidden. And really, you should make this question to yourself: Was he really your friend? I mean, if it was so easy for him to backstab you...
Quote from: Tom~ on Mar 08, 2010, 03:26 PM
Hello,
first I'd like to ask a mod to move this thread to "Rants and Rave", since this does not qualify as a review.
@Topic: That's exactly why on some servers account sharing is forbidden. And really, you should make this question to yourself: Was he really your friend? I mean, if it was so easy for him to backstab you...
first of all, itsn ot a rant. I do not hold any grudges to this server anymore since its been like 2 months ago. I found a new server to stay on and thats good. However i felt like i need to share this last impression ARO left on me on this site. I think its a legit Review, even if a lot of stuff could be considered personal opinion.
And... yea he was my friend, at least i thought so. Maybe he just felt as backstabbed as i did.
I never said this is a rant per say.
Rants and Rave sectional guidelines (http://www.ratemyserver.net/forum/rant-and-rave/rant-and-rave-sectional-guidelines/0/)
QuoteThis section is a lighter version of the Hall of Shame section. It aims to discuss negative player experiences or doubtful practice found on servers. The RMS culture of "proof or it doesn't exist" does not apply in this section. Members of the community are expected analyze and give opinion on the topic rather than ask for proof. Topic in this section has a chance to be moved to the Hall of Shame section when situation allows it.
(:
It does not qualify as a review because you're not rating any of the given scores by RMS. You're just sharing your bad experience, which is also good, but it does not belong to this section.
I hope I explained myself better this time.
thanks for clarifying dude. Im used to a ranters sections being something for whiny fools :P
well if a mod wants to move it there its ok then i guess :)
Quote from: DeePee on Mar 08, 2010, 01:52 PM
And saying you should just live with it as a GM is easy to say. It can take hours per case to solve something like this. Now imagine a server with hundreds of players who regularly lose their items. Yes, that's easily tens/hundreds of item recoveries, all taking quite some hours each to solve. Doing something like that for free will let players abuse the hell out of a service like that. They will go "Oh, sure you can have these items, the GMs will recover them anyway if you steal them", which can't honestly be good.
The job of a GM is to manage the server, not to solely do item recoveries for players who are dumb enough to lose them all the time. Having to spend all your time doing this instead of working on improving the server is just silly.
Also, I'm just saying there's nothing wrong with a recovery fee in general. This does not per-say mean a recovery fee in terms of real money, but could also be a zeny fee.
The fee is a joke. AnthemRO is a money sucking vortex, and thank you for assuming that I never ran a server(I actually ran three, but who's counting). I know what's involved. And a dedicated Admin who isn't in it for the cash and the cash alone would actually go the extra distance.
"Working to improve the server" is a great way to say "Counting your profits", though. Cheers.
Again, I'm not saying it's a good thing to have a real money fee (I mean, $2.5k, wtf?) and not assuming you never ran a server. Merely that it's good to have some kind of fee to slap stupid players in the face with, to prevent them from abusing the service.
Also, just so you know. aRO has been in financial trouble for some time now, owner sold his own car and yet the server has been up for over 3 years. Running as one of the only Aegis servers out there has its costs, which none of the eAthena server owners here will ever face.
P.S. Having managed 3 servers is not exactly something to be proud of. That is, unless you managed them at the same time, as separate projects. I mean, if you ran a server with a similar amount of players as aRO (which is needed to get a good understanding about the amount of support tickets), I doubt you'd have to run another two. Unless all three died, of course.
Also, sorry for derailing the topic ;<
You're awesome DeePee. :(
Quote from: DeePee on Mar 08, 2010, 01:01 PM
There's nothing wrong with an item recovery fee.
First problem is that it's a fee. Donations are meant to support the server, but to have an alternate method of gaining money like this...
...I sense greed. O.o
Players don't have to use the service. It's their own fault if they lose their items. They can also just suck it up and start over like on 99% of the other servers.
The donation madness has everything to do with the server's past and running on Aegis. They should've switched long time ago...
Here is where I get
MY kicks out of this:
Quote from: DeePee on Mar 08, 2010, 01:52 PM
There's nothing wrong with an item recovery fee.
Ok, great, we've established an opinion.
Quote from: DeePee on Mar 08, 2010, 05:36 PM
Again, I'm not saying it's a good thing to have a real money fee (I mean, $2.5k, wtf?) and not assuming you never ran a server. Merely that it's good to have some kind of fee to slap stupid players in the face with, to prevent them from abusing the service.
That's called an account & IP ban.
Quote from: DeePee on Mar 08, 2010, 01:52 PM
Usually it's people who are stupid enough to share their password or lend out their gear and lose their stuff like that.
This I will agree with. 98% of all "scams" and "hackings" are the result of sharing account information. The ony real "hacking" incident that last occured I remember is something along the iRO hackings way back when.
Quote from: DeePee on Mar 08, 2010, 01:52 PM
Their accounts and items are their responsibility. If they break these rules by lending out items or sharing passwords, it's their own responsibility. [/b]
Exactly, if they share out their account info, they do so at their own risk.
Quote from: DeePee on Mar 08, 2010, 05:36 PM
Also, just so you know. aRO has been in financial trouble for some time now, owner sold his own car and yet the server has been up for over 3 years. Running as one of the only Aegis servers out there has its costs, which none of the eAthena server owners here will ever face.
Yet, he CHOOSES to run an Aegis server. If he switches to eAthena, he wouldn't incur even HALF the costs he has now, if Aegis is really that "intensive" as everyone says it is.
95% of the RO population doesn't even now the damned names of the emulators running the server, let-alone know the difference between Aegis & eAthena.
Quote from: DeePee on Mar 08, 2010, 01:52 PM
Also, I'm just saying there's nothing wrong with a recovery fee in general. This does not per-say mean a recovery fee in terms of real money, but could also be a zeny fee.
http://www.anthemro.com/forums/index.php/topic,13.0.html
All listed in US currency ($).
For someone who JUST sold his car, and is having financial issues, and from what you've stated here:
Quote
It can take hours per case to solve something like this.... Yes, that's easily tens/hundreds of item recoveries, all taking quite some hours each to solve.
I find it somewhat perplexing...this, conundrum you've presented us.
The owner selfishly sold his car so he could continue hosting the server...
Yet, doesn't do item recoveries for free?
It could take
HOURS to do a few item recoveries, yet it takes
MONTHS of saving money in order to get a car.
That makes no sense: if someone is going to sell their car for something, which is worth at minimum, probably 2 months of saving: they aren't going to do a few hours for legit item recoveries?
I find that very hard to believe.
Quote from: DeePee on Mar 08, 2010, 01:52 PM
The job of a GM is to manage the server, not to solely do item recoveries for players who are dumb enough to lose them all the time. Having to spend all your time doing this instead of working on improving the server is just silly.
Yet he's doing it.
And last I checked, he's running Aegis (as everyone wants to kindly remind us of that). Aegis is VERY hard to update, and last I checked, they were on episode 12.1 something. They haven't had a very good update in a LONG, LONG, LONG time.
So besides him picking up extra cash from item recoveries, Anthem isn't updated, & this is a rage thread because the OP got banned.
QQ I'm outta here.
Actually, I see an item recovery fee for items lost through the players own stupidity (read as account sharing, rather than a rollback), to be the most effective motivator to not be stupid that I can think of.
Quote from: Green on Mar 08, 2010, 06:15 PM
Actually, I see an item recovery fee for items lost through the players own stupidity (read as account sharing, rather than a rollback), to be the most effective motivator to not be stupid that I can think of.
You find 2 mystical genies.
Both have the power to do anything.
1 Genie offers to give you back whatever you lose of your own stupidity, for a hefty fee.
The other, vows that he will never give you back anything that you lose from your own stupidity.
Which one is worse?
HINT: One is an archtype played by the leading religion in the United States. And we know how bad their history is D:
If they have the power to do -anything-, screw wasting it on items.
Quote from: Green on Mar 08, 2010, 06:54 PM
If they have the power to do -anything-, screw wasting it on items.
You've selected option B: the genie that doesn't give a s*** about your personal problems.
Great choice :D
Quote from: DeePee on Mar 08, 2010, 05:36 PM
Also, just so you know. aRO has been in financial trouble for some time now, owner sold his own car and yet the server has been up for over 3 years. Running as one of the only Aegis servers out there has its costs, which none of the eAthena server owners here will ever face.
Nobody forced them to use AEGIS. Therefore, it's their own damned fault for putting themselves in a financial hole. And if the admin really did sell his car, I think I'll just let that speak for itself...but then again, I'm guessing he would only do that knowing that the server would make enough money to get another one very, very soon.
Less obvious, but no better than Ancyker.
Pay2play server. Lol. No one has to donate anything to play the game. The GMs need to pay over 2k per month or so for the server.
The recovery system crap is something the GMs don't have to do, but they do it since they can get some money for the recovery fee.
Who cares if there's donations, recovery fees, and other "profitable" services in the server? Besides, it's the player's choice if they
really want to donate to the server, or pay for certain services.
Quote from: Judgement on Mar 08, 2010, 07:23 PM
The GMs need to pay over 2k per month or so for the server.
Wut?
Aegis is f*** expensive.
It's a nightamare to recover lost items. May take hours. And players lose it because they are stupid enough to share accounts or to lend items to their shemale girlfriend. But I simply do not see charging a fee to do it with good eyes.
Wow, extreme prices there... and GMs really have to pay for the server? Seriously? Sounds a bit dubious to me... (on how they handle/hire GMs)
Maybe charge something in-game for service would be better, but I wouldn't agree with paying with real money for it (or maybe put a WAY lower cost than what it is now).
Quote from: Judgement on Mar 08, 2010, 07:45 PM
Aegis is f*** expensive.
So why use it then? O.o
2k for a server is just... wow.
I think we're missing the point here. The money may very well be used to recover the TC's friend's items, whether or not that's entirely ethical, but--
QuoteNow guess who won the report fight? Yes, my friend did, he paid 2,5k $ (yes thats totally insane) and i got banned on all my chars for item theft
--it also seems like it was the final impetus in his ban. I don't care if it's $2500 or two cents,
the fact that money was exchanged in a deal that led to a player's ban is what, to me, should be impermissible here.
Just think of the precedent this sets for future scamming cases.
well i knew id get banned, because i knew My friend was going to pay that sum, and the server needs money. in a way i dont even blame them, maybe id have done the same for the amount of 2.5k paid for virtual pixels?
Still a part of me finds it so unfair how this happened.
Just saying btw, before some of their gms trys to label me as liar etc. -now- my ban is justified, cause when i actually got banned, and my friend got his stuff recovered, i happened to log into another account of our sharing community and poring feed anything i could find. maa have been a cheap thing to do, but yea i was quite angry seeing 3 years of my time gone.
This thread hurts my brain. There are so many things that don't and will never make sense. The money, the person complaining they got banned, etc. It's like one big stink pile.
Really, hasn't this story taught you never to trust anyone over the internet? Seriously...the internet. I'm sure there's a part in the story Bensei is leaving out that explains a great deal more than he claims what had happened.
BTW: I find it acceptable to charge people for recovering items. It's their stupidity that made them "lose" them. It's either they pay to get them back, or don't get them back at all. Nothing is for free, especially when there is an effort.
Quote from: Tande on Mar 09, 2010, 12:24 AM
This thread hurts my brain. There are so many things that don't and will never make sense. The money, the person complaining they got banned, etc. It's like one big stink pile.
Really, hasn't this story taught you never to trust anyone over the internet? Seriously...the internet. I'm sure there's a part in the story Bensei is leaving out that explains a great deal more than he claims what had happened.
BTW: I find it acceptable to charge people for recovering items. It's their stupidity that made them "lose" them. It's either they pay to get them back, or don't get them back at all. Nothing is for free, especially when there is an effort.
well even tho itd be a bother i can get you the prove i gathered for the support tickets .swt
Quote from: Temjin on Mar 08, 2010, 06:59 PM
Quote from: DeePee on Mar 08, 2010, 05:36 PM
Also, just so you know. aRO has been in financial trouble for some time now, owner sold his own car and yet the server has been up for over 3 years. Running as one of the only Aegis servers out there has its costs, which none of the eAthena server owners here will ever face.
Nobody forced them to use AEGIS. Therefore, it's their own damned fault for putting themselves in a financial hole. And if the admin really did sell his car, I think I'll just let that speak for itself...but then again, I'm guessing he would only do that knowing that the server would make enough money to get another one very, very soon.
Less obvious, but no better than Ancyker.
Actually, someone sorta did. The server owner, Talis, took over the server from someone else to sorta "save" it from dying. Just switching to eAthena is not that easy (my server's been there) and takes up a s*** load amount of time. Sure, you could do a wipe like 90% of the other RO servers out there, but that's rather bad. They're finally working on the switch to eA now, though. I (sorta) understand that the owner did not want to up till now. Aegis gives you the real RO and they are one of the only ones that still give you that. Of course they should've worked on a switch long ago, but as long as the server ran fine~
But yeah, everyone saying "So why use Aegis then, switch to eAthena!" has no idea what all has to be done to make that happen.
QuoteThat's called an account & IP ban.
So you want to account & IP ban players who take a service for granted too easily? Right.
Quote
Yet, he CHOOSES to run an Aegis server. If he switches to eAthena, he wouldn't incur even HALF the costs he has now, if Aegis is really that "intensive" as everyone says it is.
95% of the RO population doesn't even now the damned names of the emulators running the server, let-alone know the difference between Aegis & eAthena.
See above.
Quote
The owner selfishly sold his car so he could continue hosting the server...
Yet, doesn't do item recoveries for free?
So you're saying he should just continue selling his own stuff and do recoveries for free? Right.
Obviously the selling his car thing was not just something he'd do on a regular basis.
QuoteYet he's doing it.
Yes, it's a service. People may choose if they want to recover their items or just suck it up.
And again, I totally agree a real money fee to recover such items is silly (especially $2.5k, wtf) and they should've converted to eAthena a long time ago. But a fee in general is a good thing.
http://www.anthemro.com/donate/rewards.php
wow. look at their donations.
$5 to change a character slot?! are you serious?
for a low rate.. doesn't "Lord Kaho's Horns top headgear, usable by all, +6 DEF, +20 STR/INT/DEX, +20 MDEF" seem damn OP?
Quote from: Froibet on Mar 09, 2010, 04:36 AM
http://www.anthemro.com/donate/rewards.php
wow. look at their donations.
$5 to change a character slot?! are you serious?
for a low rate.. doesn't "Lord Kaho's Horns top headgear, usable by all, +6 DEF, +20 STR/INT/DEX, +20 MDEF" seem damn OP?
Not when everyone has such items.
Back when they still had sponsor offers, it was actually like that. Everyone was able to get said items for a low price, so it was balanced. Nowadays it's extremely hard for a new player to climb up the ladder.
i feel bad for them
http://pc.bot.nu/prontera/index.php?match=%25kaho%25&Submit=Search
yet theyre available to buy w/o having to donate a thing... but still 100m for a newbie would be a pain to get.
@OP why didnt you return him his junk instead of being greedy and keeping the gear claiming was yours (specially knowing you'd get banned w/o any evidence)... if a friend quit and gave me his gear and then suddenly appears and want it back.. guess I would return it (but that's me).
I don't feel bad for people who bring these sorts of things upon themselves.
Quote from: balam on Mar 09, 2010, 02:31 PM
http://pc.bot.nu/prontera/index.php?match=%25kaho%25&Submit=Search
yet theyre available to buy w/o having to donate a thing... but still 100m for a newbie would be a pain to get.
@OP why didnt you return him his junk instead of being greedy and keeping the gear claiming was yours (specially knowing you'd get banned w/o any evidence)... if a friend quit and gave me his gear and then suddenly appears and want it back.. guess I would return it (but that's me).
I think "suddenly appears" = 1-2 days I believe it was? Quite frankly, I think they were both in the wrong. If Bensei wanted to protect himself, he would have had his friend send in a ticket, stating that he was giving all his items to him and quitting etc. His friend shouldn't have lightly said, "ARGH I quit!" and not really meant it.
A matter of being ethical and a good friend, I would have kept said items for a while, maybe a week or two, rather than sold off the items right away if I really wanted to profit from it. (Personally I wouldn't have sold it at all. But that's just me)
As for the item recovery fee, if I ran the server, there would be no fee. But there also wouldn't be any recovery. Those things are a b****. Fee or not, players never really think twice about giving their information out, and quite frankly, I don't think they'll ever learn.
Gotta love people actually believing the s*** Ben's saying. :< Ben scammed his "friend", Ben got banned. That's pretty much it.
Uh, and.. The people who go all.. OMG, DONATION ITEMS, OH THE HORROR are cute.
Skimmed the thread so someone may have said this, but in regards to AnthemROs recovery fees - it IS possible to buy the "money" (ad credits) necessary to get back your items through in-game zeny ONLY. Meaning you absolutely do not have to donate if you want to recover an item.
I lost something once that I lent out, and didn't want to donate to get it back, so I just made money in game and didn't file the ticket to get it back until I saved up enough.
So, donating/paying the recovery fee is completely the player's choice.
Donating to get your gears back will just give you a lesson learned to not lend your gears out so carelessly, or share accounts, etc etc etc.
Poor Bengay =[ I feel for you.
But seriously, Felix should realize his population went from 1k players online to 300-400 players online now, I wonder why :P
I wouldn't "feel" for Bensei too much there Windstar, after all, after he got banned, he logged onto another player's account (Nestor) and took his items and sold/gave them away to cause trouble because he was angry. And as for calling him "Felix," quite frankly, I wouldn't call someone by their real name unless I was close friends with them, out of respect. At least, in the "online" world. But hey, maybe it's just me and the level of respect I have for people. I don't call Serenity by his real name even though I know it (just an example). He may or may not be OK with it, I'm not sure, so I'm going to stick by calling him Serenity. (Pretty sure he doesn't care, but hey, again, level of respect and all that stuff.) Most of the people in this thread, who do use his real name, obviously don't care, nor have any sort of respect.
And reasons why the decline:
1. Aegis, needs updates. Players always want updates, Aegis isn't quite updateable, and players leave for greener pastures due to the other servers having constant updates
2. Ticket backlog due to fixing mistakes players make, not enough GMs to do this.
3. SQI's being "end game" - what happens once you hit end game? You play for a bit and get bored. Once bored, you leave since you have all the SQI you want or whatever. In other games, there is no end game. At least, there is end game for a little bit, and newer, more powerful items come out. People learn to play with this, adapt, change, move on to "harder" dungeons/more content/etc. Again, an issue with more content
4. Aegis being expensive, donation items being expensive to upkeep the server.
So yeah, just a few reasons.
Quite frankly, out of the whole ordeal, all 3 parties were in the wrong.
1. The GMs for banning Bensei. He had screenshots and all that but, I still do not see reason for them to ban him. The only "cause" they could have had was the fact that it was "known in the community, that Valash would quit and come back repeatedly, and not really mean that he wants to quit." Ben knowing this, took advantage. But, if it were any other player and the GM in question didn't know the fact that the player quit and came back a lot, it would have been ruled in the "scammer's" way. I think that fact was circumstantial and should not have been used against Bensei. If anything, they could have resolved it simply by having Bensei return everything that he still had to Valash and having Valash request recovery on the items which were sold.
2. Bensei for turning around and getting rid of everything so quickly. Upon banning, instead of appealing, he turned around and stole another player's items to cause more problems. Which ultimately of course, did not help his case at all. In addition, Bensei made a rant regarding what was taking place, and also threatened to "report to RMS" about the dealings and the "corruption" going on because he was being wrongly persecuted. The right way to go about all of this, was if he really wanted Valash's items, and saw him saying all that was a greenlight, to get Valash to put in a ticket. This way, he'd get the items and be happy, even though it would be kind of douchey to take a "friends" things and just get rid of them like that to further yourself in a game. But hey, it's a game and we're not really talking about the ethics of being a good friend.
3. Valash, for doing his whole quitting/coming back ordeal. Once you say you give something away, don't be an "indian giver" and then take things all back. Say it like you mean it. If you quit, you quit. You don't have to give your stuff away if you don't want to. Don't say someone can have your things and expect that they'll still give it back to you if you want. If that's the case, then state so. "I won't be playing, but you can use my things. You can't have them and sell them, but you can use them."
Anyway, that's my views on it.
It wasn't even all Valash's items. That's the problem. Probably half of the items were Brandons. Which means he had no actual reason to steal all the items and try to sell them. Hence why he's a scammer and a friggin' dramaqueen.
I like Ben and all but he's too much like the people here on RMS. :[
But see, in that case, there still isn't any sort of concrete evidence pointing to the fact that Bensei KNEW that those items didn't belong to Valash. You can speculate that, and the GMs can speculate that, but that's nothing more than hunches. Unless there's more concrete evidence showing that Bensei had complete knowledge of said items which were on Valash's account, being Brandon's, then he still shouldn't be banned.
The items were on Valash's items, other than "common knowledge" what else is there to show that Brandon was the one that in actual, owned said items and not Valash? To a 3rd party, items on an account, belong to said character/account owner. Unless of course, the amount of time and where the items reside prior to that account, which would then show ownership.
Other than a car title, stating who the car belongs to, if someone uses a car 90% of the time, it is safe to assume that the car belongs to them. Same with ownership of other items, unless there is a paper/contract showing who owns what.
Perhaps I'm just not that knowledgeable in the case that was presented here, but from a 3rd party point of view, that's what it seems like to me.
valash the gypsy?
Out of respect for Valash I would like to go ahead and quote what he stated about the topic. I'm fairly sure he's done with it but I still feel that people unfamiliar with the dispute seem to take pity on Ben since he did end up getting banned.
"Recovery fee wasn't even remotely close to 2.5k, not even half (with only a fraction out of pocket). Also the only 'proof' according to Ben, in which he had, was nothing more then a meager SS of an MSN conversation. A conversation of which 'RO' was never actually mentioned, nor was the phrase 'Ben, you can have all my RO gears'. This conversation was posted once already I believe, so this information is nothing new. Bottom line is that lies and slander are quite irritating after awhile. Considering said person had absolutely no foundation for supporting his actions. Hence, the banhammer (that and turning around and doing it not only once more, or even twice more.. but to three more players, myself excluded).
Everyone knew I was a donater long before this ordeal, as quite a lot of people also are. I have absolutely no reason to be ashamed of donating. If I enjoy something, just as someone else enjoys clothes shopping, or buying music cd's, ect.. then I'll invest in it just as they would. Sure it helps me out, but it also helps that of which I enjoy. A simple 'thank you' for contributing to the server, along with others would have been much more appreciated. As opposed to the continuous criticism donaters gets for helping the server stay active.
Not only that, I find it silly if someone donates for even a single item, that person is forever labeled a donater of all items in their possession. Sometimes that may be true, although other times that would just be simply ridiculous. I've worked just as hard ingame for things, as I have outside of the game for things. I remember farming on a Minstrel (only class I owned) every single day, simply to make an old friend a couple SQI's. I accomplished that within' two months time. However, you play the game long enough (long time for me now ._.; ), you simply just get burnt out doing 'as much' leg work as you once did. If I'm able to get something within a day (due to a job) as opposed to a couple months, then surely I'll go for the short route just to enjoy that item sooner. Otherwise, by the time you get it.. you just feel like taking a good break, due to being burnt.
Now I'm more than aware I have no need to justify anything, however putting things into perspective I feel is just nessecary. It's not like I donated that much in one day. It's a number spread out over the course of many years. -_-; When looking at it from that perspective, the number is no where near as large."
That being said, I hope I can supply a decent response for some statements people have made.
@Ben: How is it close to a pay to play server? I'm fairly certain that pay to play means you actually have to pay to even play the game. Nobody on Anthem is required to pay for anything. Granted, there are donation items but not everybody donates and you don't have to donate to gear up your character decently. Like most other RO servers, with some time and dedication, you can gear up your character as well a "top tier" player (though maybe lacking the same number of sqi). I agree that it's a little harder for new players to start up but I have been through that myself and I feel I'm extremely well geared now.
To clear up another thing, any player who steals gear belonging to another player (and is caught) is banned. It isn't a matter of donating to ban the person. The person is banned regardless (for theft) so the donation is required to recover the stolen gear. A donation for lost gear may not seem terribly fair but people are not even supposed to share accounts/gear to begin with. The fee seems to be partially a punishment for the lending out of gear/accounts and then partially for the work it takes to recover said items. Regardless, item fees aren't terribly expensive. The largest fee is from the recover of SQI which, on this server, cost 100,000,000 zeny to begin with so it isn't like the person is lacking in money. Players aren't forced to donate to recover since they can just use their zeny to buy ads from other players and recover their gear that way.
@ GorthexTiger: I don't really understand you at all. How can you consider the server owner selfish if he sells his car to continue hosting the server? Perhaps you were thinking of the word selfless? Anyway, if things are so bad for the server that the owner has to sell his car (not sure if this is true or not) to support the server, I don't see why he should do recoveries for free. Does that even make sense? "The server is having issues so lets just drop this fair source of income!"
Maybe I am just misreading (in which case, for give me). As for anthem not being updated... Players are working on testing an eAthena server as I am typing this. Changes may be slow but they certainly are being made.
@ Temjin: Not every server owner can afford to pay out 2k by themselves to keep a server running for the enjoyment of others. The paypal account for Anthem transactions was frozen so you'll have to forgive the, "money sucking vortex".
Back guys, and finally some replys here.
First of all Denia, i already stated i myself, justified my ban in the end, however, i was banned BEFORE i actually broke the rule. What i did was wrong yes, but i did it out of spite. Blame me guys for being a human.
oh btw, i call talis felix, since he was a friend. Im ben to him, so hes felix to me. no biggie i guess.
i saw a huge post of lacus, well all i can say is, my post didnt contain any lies. I played with open cards the whole time. I mean it would have been ok if they have given valash the stuff back, but banning me without me breaking a rule (before the nestor stuff) Is just ridiculous.
@ lacus though. The msn convo i had actually was refering to RO obviously. There was no doubt about it. Obiously people would try to mix up the words just so it could sound different, after i actually did what he said to me.
I could have waited getting the stuff to my account yes. However, why should i on the other side?
I dont want to start Aro donation drama, i mean if i wanted i could, since theres a lot of msn convos that some people would love to see, but thats not the point. I dont care about how the gms actually use the donation. My point is what aro turned into, and considering the lack of donations now a days, i dont blame them for their decision at all, since i prolly would have done the same. However, that doesnt make it right.
also, i doubt he paid so less for all this because if i sum it up we prolly hadl ike what? 15-20 sqi? one sqi recovery is 30$ already. 10$ for non sqi. All sets of armors you could think of, mid headgears weapons, etc. istill think it was close to 2k, not the 600$ he actually claims to have paid. That doesnt matter though.
What do you guys expect now? should i delete this thread? I wont, cause as your replies show, what i actually said was true, and how all this happened was quite wrong of the aro staff.
Meh =P
Quote@ GorthexTiger: I don't really understand you at all. How can you consider the server owner selfish if he sells his car to continue hosting the server? Perhaps you were thinking of the word selfless? Anyway, if things are so bad for the server that the owner has to sell his car (not sure if this is true or not) to support the server, I don't see why he should do recoveries for free. Does that even make sense? "The server is having issues so lets just drop this fair source of income!"
Maybe I am just misreading (in which case, for give me). As for anthem not being updated... Players are working on testing an eAthena server as I am typing this. Changes may be slow but they certainly are being made.
It was selfless, I made a typo. Even with the typo though, I'm sure people could assume what I was posting from my imprinted sarcasm in that post.
And I reconsider: paying for item recovery is actually a good idea; for a server with financial problems. Most servers won't due it since its the players responsibility to keep their account safe. Period.
But, if they want to spend time to recover people's items: hey, go for it. Only problem I see with this is...
You could technically hack someone's account, and hold their items hostage, and charge them money for it.
If I had free time(patience, dilligence, motivation, skills, whatever), I'd hack Anthem, steal people's items, and charge them HALF of what it'd take to pay a GM to get their items back.
I get money, they get their items, its a win-win situation.
They don't pay, I delete the character who has the items, even more a Win-Win situation.
Rinse and repeat.
I think paying $2.5k is a bit much just to recover some items, when, I think it could've been resolved had there been better communication, or,
in a more drastic case: you pay the douche bag who takes your items for probably 1/4th of what the GM team is asking to recover items, since,
the person who took your items doesn't give a s***: they want to make the price low because any money they could be receiving is better than
nothing and just getting banned. But they can't make it too high, because if they make it too high, they might as well just pony up the extra cash and
and pay to get a 100% done deal.
What's already been said in this thread though, was the fact that payment and recovery of these items lead to someone being banned. That's discouraging.
@eAthena Test Server: Problem being is that people may "see" improvements, but no one cares until the pudding has been served.
We had a test server for a while while we were perfecting some 3rd job improvements: it didn't matter that half the coding was f*** on the real server and that it was perfect
on the test server: it still had to be implemented.
inb4 Lock.
Quote from: GorthexTiger on Mar 12, 2010, 04:09 PM
Quote@ GorthexTiger: I don't really understand you at all. How can you consider the server owner selfish if he sells his car to continue hosting the server? Perhaps you were thinking of the word selfless? Anyway, if things are so bad for the server that the owner has to sell his car (not sure if this is true or not) to support the server, I don't see why he should do recoveries for free. Does that even make sense? "The server is having issues so lets just drop this fair source of income!"
Maybe I am just misreading (in which case, for give me). As for anthem not being updated... Players are working on testing an eAthena server as I am typing this. Changes may be slow but they certainly are being made.
It was selfless, I made a typo. Even with the typo though, I'm sure people could assume what I was posting from my imprinted sarcasm in that post.
And I reconsider: paying for item recovery is actually a good idea; for a server with financial problems. Most servers won't due it since its the players responsibility to keep their account safe. Period.
But, if they want to spend time to recover people's items: hey, go for it. Only problem I see with this is...
You could technically hack someone's account, and hold their items hostage, and charge them money for it.
If I had free time(patience, dilligence, motivation, skills, whatever), I'd hack Anthem, steal people's items, and charge them HALF of what it'd take to pay a GM to get their items back.
I get money, they get their items, its a win-win situation.
They don't pay, I delete the character who has the items, even more a Win-Win situation.
Rinse and repeat.
I think paying $2.5k is a bit much just to recover some items, when, I think it could've been resolved had there been better communication, or,
in a more drastic case: you pay the ____ who takes your items for probably 1/4th of what the GM team is asking to recover items, since,
the person who took your items doesn't give a ____: they want to make the price low because any money they could be receiving is better than
nothing and just getting banned. But they can't make it too high, because if they make it too high, they might as well just pony up the extra cash and
and pay to get a 100% done deal.
What's already been said in this thread though, was the fact that payment and recovery of these items lead to someone being banned. That's discouraging.
@eAthena Test Server: Problem being is that people may "see" improvements, but no one cares until the pudding has been served.
We had a test server for a while while we were perfecting some 3rd job improvements: it didn't matter that half the coding was f*** on the real server and that it was perfect
on the test server: it still had to be implemented.
inb4 Lock.
Sorry my mistake. Thanks for posting/responding in a logical manner. Anyway, to respond to some of your statements.
Val (the person who paid the recovery fee) didn't even pay a quarter of $2,500. Bensei just happened to estimate an amount (which happens to be completely off).
I see what you're saying about how players shouldn't pay if somebody actually hacks their account and does something. To be honest, the gm's (in my opinion) are fair and treat every issue on a case by case basis. I'm fairly certain that the majority of people who get, "hacked" in Anthem shared a password with somebody. The gm's look through the logs and figure out who was actually hacked and who was simply neglectful. Sorry for not elaborating on that but I do see your point.
@Temjin: What proof do you have that this story is false? I'm not quite sure how you can consider my statements nonsensical while you simply ignore them and deny what they state even though you aren't related to the issue. My clarity on the subject at hand may not be 100% but it sure is a lot clearer than the "facts" you're sharing. Insulting a person during an argument is simply a logical fallacy which makes you look foolish.
@Bensei: I can't claim to know the total "profits" that the gm's made off the server in the past but I do know they didn't exactly strike it rich. Stating that I can't even imagine how much they gained after stating that I don't understand the whole story leads me to wonder... Do YOU know the entire story? It sounds like your exaggerating (or even just sharing false information) so that the Gm's seem like horrible monsters. If you have some sort of amazing piece of evidence that I seem to be overlooking, please share it with the rest of us.
As for that topic.. Perhaps this topic is more related to the issue at hand.
http://www.anthemro.com/forums/index.php/topic,85113.0.html (http://www.anthemro.com/forums/index.php/topic,85113.0.html)
the gms arent sone kind of monsters, they are adults. and like every adult they want to earn money, the more the better.
Yea lacus, other server owners are adults too, and i do not think getting money for the work you do is wrong. Other server owners live from their donations as well, however, they dont actually crave for the money. I mean lets be honest, 30$ per mvp card etc? I remember Debbie getting a 1-2k Dollar a day in real good months. Even Talis made quite a bit money from the server at first, even tho the population became less after the talonro split i remember him helping a girl in america to move out from her parents to live with him, buying a car, etc. Before he didnt have any serious job i think. At least he never told me about one so who knows. Still, considering his age etc, he surely had quite a good income. However, i do believe that anthemro is poor now. they dont try to switch to eathena out of fun.
also guys, keep the insults away for real, i dont want to have this locked D:!
Even if its a **** thing to do, but where would one report an aegis server? =I
Yeah... I think I've given up trying to explain my views. To each their own I suppose. No point in debating when the person you're talking to completely ignores your response or flings insults when they are proven incorrect (and then counters with the same opinion they have been posting each time).
I just don't feel the server should be judged by the opinions of a few people.
Quote from: ~*LacusHime*~ on Mar 13, 2010, 06:02 PM
Yeah... I think I've given up trying to explain my views. To each their own I suppose. No point in debating when the person you're talking to completely ignores your response or flings insults when they are proven incorrect
There is no proof here.
All there is, is words.
Even with the credit card receipt, all it was is a bunch of words with text, which can be easily copied and pasted off something as simple as Newegg.
There is no proof anywhere to say "Yes Anthem is a money sucking pit" or that it isn't.
The only person who knows that is the person who "supposedly" sold his car.
If you want to get into the semantics of "proof" here, there a TON of things that should be / could be shown:
-Credit Card Statements:
-Paypal Invoices
-DMV Record or Invoice of Transfer of Ownership (oh, this would be good)
-Proof of Insurance (that said car even existed or was insured)
-Hosting Invoices / Receipts
-Pictures, of all items, said above with the appropriate personal information blacked out.
Since any / all of these could clear the shadow over Anima / Anthem's reputation, none of them have been provided. All there are, is words, accusations from 2 groups on different sides who have nothing to back them up but more words.
Like I said before, you have nothing but words to back up your statements, and to declare "Ad Hominem" is a cop-out.
All it does is says that the other person is more interested in making you appear more stupid than actually debating your argument.
Which is fine, but it doesn't prove that your argument is right either.
The only thing we know, is the person who would know / could know, is Anthem's administrator, which I doubt will make an appearance with said items. (Not to call him out or anything, but I doubt that this will be provided).
Because it can't / won't be provided, it gives people the suspicion (and sometimes, the reason) to accuse Anthem / Anima of hiding something.
Sorry to say, but no one here has clarity on anything so your clarity is just as bad as everyone elses.
Quote from: ~*LacusHime*~ on Mar 13, 2010, 06:02 PM
I just don't feel the server should be judged by the opinions of a few people.
This is the internet, and everyone is going to have their opinion, regardless. The only "few people" you are referring to are the people who actually had the time / or felt the need to post.
Temjin
Warned for 3 days, derailing thread, bad words (tut tut tut)
Kenshi.
Moderation status by 3 days, attempt to derail thread.
Gemerafa
Those kind of reactions are unneeded. They set a base for derailment, please don't do it again.
Some messages removed mostly due to derailment.
For the last time, Rant and Rave section is indeed rant and rave, but stay on-topic. No personal vendettas.
if you feel like I made an unfair decision, PM me.
Thread unlocked per request
Quote from: GorthexTiger on Mar 13, 2010, 06:16 PM
All there is, is words.
Even with the credit card receipt, all it was is a bunch of words with text, which can be easily copied and pasted off something as simple as Newegg.
There is no proof anywhere to say "Yes Anthem is a money sucking pit" or that it isn't.
The only person who knows that is the person who "supposedly" sold his car.
If you want to get into the semantics of "proof" here, there a TON of things that should be / could be shown:
-Credit Card Statements:
-Paypal Invoices
-DMV Record or Invoice of Transfer of Ownership (oh, this would be good)
-Proof of Insurance (that said car even existed or was insured)
-Hosting Invoices / Receipts
-Pictures, of all items, said above with the appropriate personal information blacked out.
Since any / all of these could clear the shadow over Anima / Anthem's reputation, none of them have been provided. All there are, is words, accusations from 2 groups on different sides who have nothing to back them up but more words.
Like I said before, you have nothing but words to back up your statements, and to declare "Ad Hominem" is a cop-out.
All it does is says that the other person is more interested in making you appear more stupid than actually debating your argument.
Which is fine, but it doesn't prove that your argument is right either.
The only thing we know, is the person who would know / could know, is Anthem's administrator, which I doubt will make an appearance with said items. (Not to call him out or anything, but I doubt that this will be provided).
Because it can't / won't be provided, it gives people the suspicion (and sometimes, the reason) to accuse Anthem / Anima of hiding something.
Sorry to say, but no one here has clarity on anything so your clarity is just as bad as everyone elses.
This is the internet, and everyone is going to have their opinion, regardless. The only "few people" you are referring to are the people who actually had the time / or felt the need to post.
You know what, for s*** and giggles, I'll gather all that and post it.
The only thing with the DMV records would be the fact that the car, is in his gf's name, since it belonged to the both of them. However, I can white out all HER information, excluding her initials maybe? Since I don't really want to post her name on here. But I can post the buyer's first name, along with the checks made out to both me and the gf (2 checks, the car was a total of $12,000 ... although way under the price of the car itself).
Hell, I can even post the vin, though, would that be pretty bad to post? Identity theft junk and all? Don't think I can post the insurance... it expired a while ago and I never saved it. But heck, I think I might still even have the dealership records of when they both bought the car.
Paypal also doesn't really have an "invoice" but I can print out the whole, "frozen" page thing. Although, only to the one that I have access to, which was my own, which was frozen in conjunction with AnthemRO's since Talis requested that I use my own paypal until Anthem's was unfrozen lol YAY! But again... a print out.
PS. Credit card statements will be my own, and I'll have to black out some of the things I bought on there since they're private information. You know... all that pornography websites I subscribe to and all that junk.
Stay tuned yay! :P
For starters, yeah I know a screen cap, but yeah, I'll get the actual statements later on this upcoming week, probably will do it at work lulz.
(http://img379.imageshack.us/img379/9210/clipboard01j.png)
But quite frankly, no matter what things I gather and post, those who don't like Anthem, will honestly feel the same way. Many of them still won't believe me, if not the majority; and will still retain their opinion of the server. Those who like the server will not believe me, say it's all fake unless they see it themselves, and those who like the server will believe it.
The majority of will not believe it. If I made a rant about anthem, stating that the server owner were an illegal alien living in another country and teerkin ourrr jerbsssss, I'm pretty sure a lot of people would believe me, due to the amount of people who are angry at the server/say things about the server itself. It's just the way things go, not QQing, but it's human nature to get all riled up and spread rumor like that. And they will especially believe it since it is a descendant of AnimaRO.
Although, you never really hear about TalonRO, or the whereabouts and stuff of the server owner. Since talonRO was also a spawn of AnimaRO. Their fault for keeping a similar name/website and junk. lol.
[soapbox] Anyway, I'm not stating this because I'm FOR the server, I'm quite neutral about it after all that's happened, a little angry at how much work and effort I put into it, and getting banned from the forums (which is another story), and also it being a thankless job which everyone, RMS/Anthem players etc, do nothing but fling accusations and s*** at you. My time GMing for Anthem, and being Talis' friend and helping him with Anthem crap, completely sucked. [/soapbox]
Quote from: Relics on Mar 14, 2010, 08:41 AM
Gemerafa
Those kind of reactions are unneeded. They set a base for derailment, please don't do it again.
I'm sorry, Relics, for unintendedly baiting another player into derailing this thread. On the forums where I come from, posting a "Cool Story, Bro" pic as well as pointing out the fact that banned players and haters usually tend to create their own "truth," wouldn't really be considered as hijacking or derailing a topic. For me, the internet is not so much serious business, so I feel like it's no big deal to sometimes make fun of someone, as long as it keeps within a limit, and doesn't turn over into insults or flaming. In this thread, we're discussing about a freaking game after all!
Besides, in all honesty, what is this section about?
"Members of the community are expected
analyze and give opinion on the topic rather than ask for proof"
"Proof to support your claim is not required"
"You are banned for whatever reason you think is unjustified"
Come on, there's basically "DRAMA SECTION" written all over it. You cannot expect any serious and objective discussions about an issue, a server, or a GM, started by someone who was banned, or holds any other grudges against the server, its past, or its owner's dog. We, as Ragnarok players, all know that banned players always think of themselves as victims of GM corruption or any other conspiracies. Getting unbanned for paying money, or getting someone banned for money? Lol, has anyone who made these assumptions actually tried it? For the lulz, all you banned players out there, contact your GMs, offer them a nice sum of money, and then post some chat logs or screenshots here as evidence. Again, this is a section where proof isn't needed, but on the other hand, that means I can start any rumor about any server, just for whatever stupid reason there may be (no, of course I won't do it as I don't see myself as childish as certain other people).
Also, I wouldn't call it a personal vendetta if you simply disagree with the OP, and try to point out what kind of person he or she is.
I am not disagreeing with your decision as a moderator, not at all. After all, I am not a regular visitor to RMS, and I only created this forum account yesterday. It's alright if it's a bit stricter around here, and I mean it, I'm not saying this in a sarcastic or ironic manner, as we can all adapt. I'm just wondering that, as a topic starter in this section, one seems to enjoy immunity to a certain degree (for example re-opening the thread), when it is clear that the topic starter is not serious at all.
Back on topic: Lol, Denia, how much time has already passed since you left the server as a GM? It's truly a shame that because of all that unnecessary drama, you're being dragged back into this stuff. :(
As far as bensei is concerned, before anyone tries to get an idea of what is going on, at first, one should get an idea of who this player is. As a mostly impartial and quiet listener, I noticed him posting in and starting a lot of topics in the "Ranter" section, mostly about PvP wars and donations. For the first part, it is more or less obvious that PvP rants are only there for instigating drama, and for the second part, as a donator himself, he felt insulted if someone was ranting about "donationwhores." As he's already mentioned in this thread, he now feels bad about defending the whole donation system. Also, a few years in the past, he always seemed to be around one other ex-player called Elements who him- or herself (?) started a lot of drama back in the old days, and by analyzing this reaction and behavior, it seems like bensei is only trying to imitate Elements.
Why am I mentioning this? Obviously, as far as I am concerned, the OP isn't serious about warning other players, or pointing to doubtful practices, because, in fact, to me it looks like his personal vendetta against the server, or the server owner, thus, bending the truth a bit to fit his needs. This was made even more evident after a few comments of him, such as "PS: does anyone know how to report a server to gravity?", and so on. Of course, a topic about corruption and donations and money attracts the usual people, such as Lynn Leblanc, Serenity, and the usual donation server haters, since they all know what is going on behind the scenes (hint: that was sarcasm). I've yet to see a neutral player complain about being banned unjustifiedly; yes, with this comment, I imply that I strongly believe that the people who cry the loudest (Lynn, Serenity) were involved in doubtful practices themselves. This is obviously not part of the topic at hand, so hopefully, it isn't discussed any futher.
Why would players actually care what happens with the money they donated, as long as the server owner keeps the server up, and provides the player with the promised rewards? Is the server owner supposed to throw the money that he gets after paying the bills into the trash bin? The Ragnarok community would be a lot more friendlier if there was more effort put into getting rid of all the drama lamas, instead of even offering them breeding ground.
tl;dr
I don't suppose anyone is going to read this wall of text made by a poor 1 post poster, when the OP has got a nice avatar, as well as 135 posts and a sleek title called "Imperial," but at least I tried. :( For justice, against drama!!
Quote from: Gemerafa on Mar 14, 2010, 04:39 PM
I'm sorry, Relics, for unintendedly baiting another player into derailing this thread. On the forums where I come from, posting a "Cool Story, Bro" pic as well as pointing out the fact that banned players and haters usually tend to create their own "truth," wouldn't really be considered as hijacking or derailing a topic.
Sorry, but anybody who willingly browses 4Chan (cheers for upholding Rules 1 and 2, by the way, but no dice) really should be discredited after they say well...anything.
Also, I'm not a player of AnthemRO. I'd like to preserve what precious little dignity I have left.
What I am, however, is somebody who doesn't like hearing lying and cover-ups over one of the most obvious scams of Ragnarok Online,
ever.
Quote from: GemerafaWhy would players actually care what happens with the money they donated, as long as the server owner keeps the server up, and provides the player with the promised rewards? Is the server owner supposed to throw the money that he gets after paying the bills into the trash bin? The Ragnarok community would be a lot more friendlier if there was more effort put into getting rid of all the drama lamas, instead of even offering them breeding ground.
That's dependent on who you ask. You'll find the player here and there who really doesn't care. A majority will disagree and actually care. Reason being: You are not donating to that Admin's bank account. You are donating to the server. Keeping it up is one thing. Keeping it up and then pocketing the overhead is another. Especially when there's many things that still have to be done to whatever RO server it is. It's a shady practice, and that's why it's a very touchy subject on RMS. Financial struggle or not, what has happened cannot remain in the past: AEGIS is illegal and Anima/Anthem made bank on it.
What is the server owner supposed to do? Smart money says they should keep the funds on lockdown until needed, such as say...server upgrade when player maximum count increases, better connections, more efficient advertising, etc.; the possibilities are limitless, but pocketing it and/or spending it on a new car/PS3/whatever should be out of the question.
Does that mean these Admins are bad people? Not necessarily, they just made a bad choice. Does that mean it shouldn't be spotlighted? Hell no. Once money is involved, drama WILL be generated if it is being misused. I mean, let's be rational for a second: Ragnarok Online, in the private sector, is a GAME and NOT a business. And there's the contradiction in your post: We ARE discussing a
game. However, there are people who take that game and attempt to turn it into a
business. You can't say one thing and then go backwards and say "Who cares what they do with the money".
Ragnarok Online would be better without the drama. It would also be better without greedy admins and owners looking to get rich quick by ripping off players.
Eh let's not use the "legal/illegal" thing as if we haven't been through that giant circular talk from all the art theft and client talk and whatnot already in other threads.
You'll think that the admins and GM team will try to lower the maintenance cost instead of just finding more ways for donations to keep the server afloat though? As a total outsider to anthem/talon, I think that's the part that irks me the most. If the admin isn't "greedy" for donations and the maintenance cost has always been this high, why didn't he/she do something to lower the cost when there's still a bit of money left? From other threads in RMS, it's not like they are uninformed about the situation and I think Denia even said that he tried to convince the admin to switch over to eA to solve this problem long time ago. Currently, Anthem is just patching a well-known problem, instead of solving the problem at its roots.
It's almost as if the conversion is not done because a justification is necessary for all these services and other donation gears... I can't help but raise suspicion about it, really. It's probably extremely difficult of a conversion to eA, but to me it sounds like they (used to) have a well supportive and knowledgeable GM team who will hep the admin through these technical difficulty too.
Quote from: Temjin on Mar 14, 2010, 10:12 PM
Sorry, but anybody who willingly browses 4Chan (cheers for upholding Rules 1 and 2, by the way, but no dice) really should be discredited after they say well...anything.
I don't willingly browse 4chan, my good sir, but if you browse the internet and its forums for a while, you will inevitabliy come across at least one or two memes, but it's funny that I induce that thought. Anyway, who really cares?
Quote from: Temjin on Mar 14, 2010, 10:12 PM
Also, I'm not a player of AnthemRO. I'd like to preserve what precious little dignity I have left.
What I am, however, is somebody who doesn't like hearing lying and cover-ups over one of the most obvious scams of Ragnarok Online, ever.
Oi, Wikipedia is asking for donations! Damn, it's a scam, and they're just trying to make a business out of "providing free content." ... it's the very same thing. You can label anything asking for donations a scam on the internet. If you believe it or not, it's your thing. After all, it's called a donation, and not pay2play, so you could just ignore the requests from those "greedy" server owners.
Quote from: Temjin on Mar 14, 2010, 10:12 PM
What is the server owner supposed to do? Smart money says they should keep the funds on lockdown until needed, such as say...server upgrade when player maximum count increases, better connections, more efficient advertising, etc.; the possibilities are limitless, but pocketing it and/or spending it on a new car/PS3/whatever should be out of the question.
Who says this hasn't been done? Some time last year, there was an upgrade where they bought one other server machine, and installed a firewall. This costed yet another 500 or 1000 bucks, and one of the GMs posted they have like 10 or 12 servers? Including test servers, web server, download servers, and stuff I don't remember and know about. Considering that it's the cheapest way to pay the hoster once a year, can you imagine how much money has to be paid in one batch? I don't think that there is a constant flow of donations anymore, each month. Keep in mind that if you pay for better connections each time there is more money than you need, the monthly or yearly costs will also increase, which makes it harder to "survive" in the future.
Quote from: Temjin on Mar 14, 2010, 10:12 PM
Does that mean these Admins are bad people? Not necessarily, they just made a bad choice. Does that mean it shouldn't be spotlighted? Hell no. Once money is involved, drama WILL be generated if it is being misused. I mean, let's be rational for a second: Ragnarok Online, in the private sector, is a GAME and NOT a business. And there's the contradiction in your post: We ARE discussing a game. However, there are people who take that game and attempt to turn it into a business. You can't say one thing and then go backwards and say "Who cares what they do with the money".
Ragnarok Online would be better without the drama. It would also be better without greedy admins and owners looking to get rich quick by ripping off players.
Of course, drama goes hand in hand with money. In this thread, though, it is just used as an excuse to defame the server by the OP, and apparently, has nothing to do with the problem at hand.
Besides, as soon as I have to pay a fee for server hosting, and pay taxes for something, it's a freaking business for me, and I'd like to get something out of it after all, if I were a/the server owner. Of course, the primary goal for each server owner should be the wish to create a platform for players to play on, however, if I have to pay out of my own pockets for it, I want to get something for my efforts as well.
For players, it SHOULD stay a game, however, since there are always ex-players/ex-GMs trying to be cool by spreading stuff about corruption and so on, these players will involve others in their crusade to defame the server.
Everyone who STILL isn't over AnthemRO's past (i.e. AnimaRO), may kindly leave this thread and can go join forces with Serenity or someone else, and create nice little stories about the "truth" pertaining the present.
You all seem like accusing the CURRENT server owner, Talis, of creating this mess of donations and AEGIS and MVP cards. As far as I know, he was just the one to take over after something happened with the old owner/GMs (?). If the server was in a more or less good shape, and players wanted to play (after all, take a server down for a few months, and you'll lose 99% of the players), why not ... just continune with what was given to you? If you lead a server because you like to offer the players a platform to play on, and while you're doing this, you can earn money, it's a win-win situation, both for the players and the owner, isn't it, since you can regard it as a job, to administer a server? Especially when a lot of donators only donate to buy something from the item shop, basically they simply BUY something from the server, they don't really care what happens to their money. Those kind of players don't donate because they want to support the server, or keep it up.
EVERYONE who earns money out there in the big world, "misuses" it, at least from one person's point of view. For me, the whole stuff with "I am the upholder of moral standards, and I shallst punish thee for paying thy living expenses with the donation money!" is just an excuse to cause drama because you felt disadvantaged at one point, and it's wasted energy.
Quote from: Ayu on Mar 14, 2010, 11:48 PM
You'll think that the admins and GM team will try to lower the maintenance cost instead of just finding more ways for donations to keep the server afloat though? As a total outsider to anthem/talon, I think that's the part that irks me the most. If the admin isn't "greedy" for donations and the maintenance cost has always been this high, why didn't he/she do something to lower the cost when there's still a bit of money left? From other threads in RMS, it's not like they are uninformed about the situation and I think Denia even said that he tried to convince the admin to switch over to eA to solve this problem long time ago. Currently, Anthem is just patching a well-known problem, instead of solving the problem at its roots.
It's almost as if the conversion is not done because a justification is necessary for all these services and other donation gears... I can't help but raise suspicion about it, really. It's probably extremely difficult of a conversion to eA, but to me it sounds like they (used to) have a well supportive and knowledgeable GM team who will hep the admin through these technical difficulty too.
I think the problem in this case was that the money that was saved up to this point was all lost, and paypal donations were out of question as their account was deleted, so to me, it looks like, suddenly, they lost money as well as the only way of income. Why wouldn't you then look for alternative ways for income?
I don't know how to lower the maintenance costs, but - call me stupid - how would a change to this other server software, eAthena, work out? After all, you still have to host servers to run it on, and the bandwidth will not decrease, I think? ???
I think we will see how it works out, after all, they are now trying to change the server software, but it does not really look and feel the same, after what I have read in a few discussions and reports?
Basically, to what it boils down in this thread is, if you believe someone or not. Disagreeing with a server owner or the way a server is led, is ok, I think, but making your own "truth" up and spreading it, is not ok.
Quote from: Gemerafa on Mar 15, 2010, 06:59 AM
I don't know how to lower the maintenance costs, but - call me stupid - how would a change to this other server software, eAthena, work out? After all, you still have to host servers to run it on, and the bandwidth will not decrease, I think? ???
A couple of things.
1. AEGIS is programmed extremely inefficient and thus requires
multiple powerful servers to run stable. eAthena is a lot more efficient and can basically run on only
one machine, heck, even on someone's home computer.
2. AEGIS only runs on Windows and a MSSQL database. This all increases the rental price of the servers. eAthena can run on Linux and MySQL, which do not have any license costs.
Example: on AEGIS, aRO will need like 3 powerful servers, costing 1000-2000$ a month. If they are on eAthena, they only need 1 server, costing maybe 250$ a month.
With their current player amount they would need like a 40$-Server
They're still one of the bigger low rates out there, so yeah.
Quote from: DeePee on Mar 15, 2010, 07:27 AM
Quote from: Gemerafa on Mar 15, 2010, 06:59 AM
I don't know how to lower the maintenance costs, but - call me stupid - how would a change to this other server software, eAthena, work out? After all, you still have to host servers to run it on, and the bandwidth will not decrease, I think? ???
A couple of things.
1. AEGIS is programmed extremely inefficient and thus requires multiple powerful servers to run stable. eAthena is a lot more efficient and can basically run on only one machine, heck, even on someone's home computer.
2. AEGIS only runs on Windows and an MSSQL database. This all increases the rental price of the servers. eAthena can run on Linux and MySQL, which do not have any license costs.
Example: on AEGIS, aRO will need like 3 powerful servers, costing 1000-2000$ a month. If they are on eAthena, they only need 1 server, costing maybe 250$ a month.
QFT
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AEGIS_(Ragnarok_Online)
I wish I could make out a s*** ton of money to upgrade my PC and be all cool like you guys with the latest hip techno stuff, but I can run an eA test server + MySQL database + my RO client (which for some reason consumes a lot of ram) on 1 GB of RAM and still be able to do other things while I'm screwing around.
Now I know you are all blown away by my computer's specs (/sarcasm) but DeePee is absolutely right. I think the starting usage, for eA, is around 150~200MB of RAM. Nothing a cheap VPS can't provide.
Well, again, that's what they're doing now. Though once again, a bit late for that now. I guess the mindset was, "If it isn't broken, don't fix it." Besides, Talis likes Aegis/gameplay/etc. Although once again, as the wikipedia had said it, it takes up a lot of resources and isn't very... good coding. A big problem I think they would have faced back then when they had "coders/scripters/devs" which were "capable" would be that they would leave in a very short amount of time, in which case, they would have been left with mid transition. It could be argued once again though, that it may happen now. Though, the people doing the switch, are a GM and Talis the server owner I think.
Anyway! Below are a couple of my cc statements! Whee! (I really don't think you need to know where I'm eating and stuff lol.)
http://img191.imageshack.us/img191/9825/ccstatement1.jpg
http://img188.imageshack.us/img188/9044/ccstatement2.jpg
Will post more as I get it... kind of takes a bit of time and effort to do as such ya know lol. Oh yeah, car was sold for 5k on paper, you know, to lessen the burden of taxes and registration for the new owner. Man, California charges like $1,000 ish now if you buy a $5,000 car - wtf? I bought my car new in 2004, and I think registration for me was like $300 at most! I'm just glad I paid it off by 2009. That full coverage is pricey.
Quote from: Denia on Mar 15, 2010, 08:41 PM
Well, again, that's what they're doing now. Though once again, a bit late for that now. I guess the mindset was, "If it isn't broken, don't fix it." Besides, Talis likes Aegis/gameplay/etc. Although once again, as the wikipedia had said it, it takes up a lot of resources and isn't very... good coding. A big problem I think they would have faced back then when they had "coders/scripters/devs" which were "capable" would be that they would leave in a very short amount of time, in which case, they would have been left with mid transition. It could be argued once again though, that it may happen now. Though, the people doing the switch, are a GM and Talis the server owner I think.
Anyway! Below are a couple of my cc statements! Whee! (I really don't think you need to know where I'm eating and stuff lol.)
http://img191.imageshack.us/img191/9825/ccstatement1.jpg
http://img188.imageshack.us/img188/9044/ccstatement2.jpg
Will post more as I get it... kind of takes a bit of time and effort to do as such ya know lol. Oh yeah, car was sold for 5k on paper, you know, to lessen the burden of taxes and registration for the new owner. Man, California charges like $1,000 ish now if you buy a $5,000 car - wtf? I bought my car new in 2004, and I think registration for me was like $300 at most! I'm just glad I paid it off by 2009. That full coverage is pricey.
Anything under $5k on the value of a car can be transfered as a "gift", that doesn't have to be claimed on taxes, and the only thing you gotta pay is the transfer fee.
:\
That's the only thing, the worth of the car was more than $5,000. Besides, the buyer wanted to do it that way since he thought it would be the easiest thing and least 'suspicious' I guess? That and that was what was left on the lien on the car, so it was just a nice and even number anyway. That part doesn't matter to me much anyways, I mean, it's the buyer's responsibility, I just thought it would be nice to comply since he was a college student and I was just trying to get rid of the car quickly.
Anyway though, I gave my dad my old beater car a while ago, which was maybe worth 1.5k at the very most, and that's if he fixed up the tires/transmission and stuff; and they still charged him quite a bit in transfer fees from what he said, like $300ish or so since it's dependent on the value of the car (year make and model I think?) It's still pretty pricey.
Lol, a bit off topic there.
Aww the old times on animaRO and all the damn drama that came along with one of the most messed up servers in the history of private servers. This server stopped being a $$ farm after Debbie 'died' which I still don't know WTF that means. (I'd like to speak to Serenity about wtf went on with that server) Give up and move on. If anyone wants to make a server that is similar to animaRO in every aspect but has very limited donations and no autoloot, I would play! The SQIs and Kahos were imbalanced but they made RO 100x more fun.
We did give it up and move on since the thread was two months old.