Anthemro (final review)

[Windstar]

Donating to get your gears back will just give you a lesson learned to not lend your gears out so carelessly, or share accounts, etc etc etc.

Poor Bengay =[ I feel for you.

But seriously, Felix should realize his population went from 1k players online to 300-400 players online now, I wonder why

[Denia]

I wouldn't "feel" for Bensei too much there Windstar, after all, after he got banned, he logged onto another player's account (Nestor) and took his items and sold/gave them away to cause trouble because he was angry. And as for calling him "Felix," quite frankly, I wouldn't call someone by their real name unless I was close friends with them, out of respect. At least, in the "online" world. But hey, maybe it's just me and the level of respect I have for people. I don't call Serenity by his real name even though I know it (just an example). He may or may not be OK with it, I'm not sure, so I'm going to stick by calling him Serenity. (Pretty sure he doesn't care, but hey, again, level of respect and all that stuff.) Most of the people in this thread, who do use his real name, obviously don't care, nor have any sort of respect.

And reasons why the decline:

1. Aegis, needs updates. Players always want updates, Aegis isn't quite updateable, and players leave for greener pastures due to the other servers having constant updates
2. Ticket backlog due to fixing mistakes players make, not enough GMs to do this.
3. SQI's being "end game" - what happens once you hit end game? You play for a bit and get bored. Once bored, you leave since you have all the SQI you want or whatever. In other games, there is no end game. At least, there is end game for a little bit, and newer, more powerful items come out. People learn to play with this, adapt, change, move on to "harder" dungeons/more content/etc. Again, an issue with more content
4. Aegis being expensive, donation items being expensive to upkeep the server.

So yeah, just a few reasons.

Quite frankly, out of the whole ordeal, all 3 parties were in the wrong.

1. The GMs for banning Bensei. He had screenshots and all that but, I still do not see reason for them to ban him. The only "cause" they could have had was the fact that it was "known in the community, that Valash would quit and come back repeatedly, and not really mean that he wants to quit." Ben knowing this, took advantage. But, if it were any other player and the GM in question didn't know the fact that the player quit and came back a lot, it would have been ruled in the "scammer's" way. I think that fact was circumstantial and should not have been used against Bensei. If anything, they could have resolved it simply by having Bensei return everything that he still had to Valash and having Valash request recovery on the items which were sold.

2. Bensei for turning around and getting rid of everything so quickly. Upon banning, instead of appealing, he turned around and stole another player's items to cause more problems. Which ultimately of course, did not help his case at all. In addition, Bensei made a rant regarding what was taking place, and also threatened to "report to RMS" about the dealings and the "corruption" going on because he was being wrongly persecuted. The right way to go about all of this, was if he really wanted Valash's items, and saw him saying all that was a greenlight, to get Valash to put in a ticket. This way, he'd get the items and be happy, even though it would be kind of douchey to take a "friends" things and just get rid of them like that to further yourself in a game. But hey, it's a game and we're not really talking about the ethics of being a good friend.

3. Valash, for doing his whole quitting/coming back ordeal. Once you say you give something away, don't be an "indian giver" and then take things all back. Say it like you mean it. If you quit, you quit. You don't have to give your stuff away if you don't want to. Don't say someone can have your things and expect that they'll still give it back to you if you want. If that's the case, then state so. "I won't be playing, but you can use my things. You can't have them and sell them, but you can use them."

Anyway, that's my views on it.

[Kenshi.]

It wasn't even all Valash's items. That's the problem. Probably half of the items were Brandons. Which means he had no actual reason to steal all the items and try to sell them. Hence why he's a scammer and a friggin' dramaqueen.

I like Ben and all but he's too much like the people here on RMS. :[

[Denia]

But see, in that case, there still isn't any sort of concrete evidence pointing to the fact that Bensei KNEW that those items didn't belong to Valash. You can speculate that, and the GMs can speculate that, but that's nothing more than hunches. Unless there's more concrete evidence showing that Bensei had complete knowledge of said items which were on Valash's account, being Brandon's, then he still shouldn't be banned.

The items were on Valash's items, other than "common knowledge" what else is there to show that Brandon was the one that in actual, owned said items and not Valash? To a 3rd party, items on an account, belong to said character/account owner. Unless of course, the amount of time and where the items reside prior to that account, which would then show ownership.

Other than a car title, stating who the car belongs to, if someone uses a car 90% of the time, it is safe to assume that the car belongs to them. Same with ownership of other items, unless there is a paper/contract showing who owns what.

Perhaps I'm just not that knowledgeable in the case that was presented here, but from a 3rd party point of view, that's what it seems like to me.

[Luna~]

valash the gypsy?

[~*LacusHime*~]

Out of respect for Valash I would like to go ahead and quote what he stated about the topic. I'm fairly sure he's done with it but I still feel that people unfamiliar with the dispute seem to take pity on Ben since he did end up getting banned.

"Recovery fee wasn't even remotely close to 2.5k, not even half (with only a fraction out of pocket). Also the only 'proof' according to Ben, in which he had, was nothing more then a meager SS of an MSN conversation. A conversation of which 'RO' was never actually mentioned, nor was the phrase 'Ben, you can have all my RO gears'. This conversation was posted once already I believe, so this information is nothing new. Bottom line is that lies and slander are quite irritating after awhile. Considering said person had absolutely no foundation for supporting his actions. Hence, the banhammer (that and turning around and doing it not only once more, or even twice more.. but to three more players, myself excluded).

Everyone knew I was a donater long before this ordeal, as quite a lot of people also are. I have absolutely no reason to be ashamed of donating. If I enjoy something, just as someone else enjoys clothes shopping, or buying music cd's, ect.. then I'll invest in it just as they would. Sure it helps me out, but it also helps that of which I enjoy. A simple 'thank you' for contributing to the server, along with others would have been much more appreciated. As opposed to the continuous criticism donaters gets for helping the server stay active.

Not only that, I find it silly if someone donates for even a single item, that person is forever labeled a donater of all items in their possession. Sometimes that may be true, although other times that would just be simply ridiculous. I've worked just as hard ingame for things, as I have outside of the game for things. I remember farming on a Minstrel (only class I owned) every single day, simply to make an old friend a couple SQI's. I accomplished that within' two months time. However, you play the game long enough (long time for me now ._.; ), you simply just get burnt out doing 'as much' leg work as you once did. If I'm able to get something within a day (due to a job) as opposed to a couple months, then surely I'll go for the short route just to enjoy that item sooner. Otherwise, by the time you get it.. you just feel like taking a good break, due to being burnt.

Now I'm more than aware I have no need to justify anything, however putting things into perspective I feel is just nessecary. It's not like I donated that much in one day. It's a number spread out over the course of many years. -_-; When looking at it from that perspective, the number is no where near as large."

That being said, I hope I can supply a decent response for some statements people have made.

@Ben: How is it close to a pay to play server? I'm fairly certain that pay to play means you actually have to pay to even play the game. Nobody on Anthem is required to pay for anything. Granted, there are donation items but not everybody donates and you don't have to donate to gear up your character decently. Like most other RO servers, with some time and dedication, you can gear up your character as well a "top tier" player (though maybe lacking the same number of sqi). I agree that it's a little harder for new players to start up but I have been through that myself and I feel I'm extremely well geared now.

To clear up another thing, any player who steals gear belonging to another player (and is caught) is banned. It isn't a matter of donating to ban the person. The person is banned regardless (for theft) so the donation is required to recover the stolen gear. A donation for lost gear may not seem terribly fair but people are not even supposed to share accounts/gear to begin with. The fee seems to be partially a punishment for the lending out of gear/accounts and then partially for the work it takes to recover said items. Regardless, item fees aren't terribly expensive. The largest fee is from the recover of SQI which, on this server, cost 100,000,000 zeny to begin with so it isn't like the person is lacking in money. Players aren't forced to donate to recover since they can just use their zeny to buy ads from other players and recover their gear that way.

@ GorthexTiger: I don't really understand you at all.  How can you consider the server owner selfish if he sells his car to continue hosting the server? Perhaps you were thinking of the word selfless?   Anyway, if things are so bad for the server that the owner has to sell his car (not sure if this is true or not) to support the server, I don't see why he should do recoveries for free. Does that even make sense?  "The server is having issues so lets just drop this fair source of income!"
Maybe I am just misreading (in which case, for give me). As for anthem not being updated... Players are working on testing an eAthena server as I am typing this. Changes may be slow but they certainly are being made.

@ Temjin: Not every server owner can afford to pay out 2k by themselves to keep a server running for the enjoyment of others. The paypal account for Anthem transactions was frozen so you'll have to forgive the, "money sucking vortex".

[bensei]

Back guys, and finally some replys here.

First of all Denia, i already stated i myself, justified my ban in the end, however, i was banned BEFORE i actually broke the rule. What i did was wrong yes, but i did it out of spite. Blame me guys for being a human.

oh btw, i call talis felix, since he was a friend. Im ben to him, so hes felix to me. no biggie i guess.

i saw a huge post of lacus, well all i can say is, my post didnt contain any lies. I played with open cards the whole time. I mean it would have been ok if they have given valash the stuff back, but banning me without me breaking a rule (before the nestor stuff) Is just ridiculous.

@ lacus though. The msn convo i had actually was refering to RO obviously. There was no doubt about it. Obiously people would try to mix up the words just so it could sound different, after i actually did what he said to me.

I could have waited getting the stuff to my account yes. However, why should i on the other side?

I dont want to start Aro donation drama, i mean if i wanted i could, since theres a lot of msn convos that some people would love to see, but thats not the point. I dont care about how the gms actually use the donation. My point is what aro turned into, and considering the lack of donations now a days, i dont blame them for their decision at all, since i prolly would have done the same. However, that doesnt make it right.

also, i doubt he paid so less for all this because if i sum it up we prolly hadl ike what? 15-20 sqi? one sqi recovery is 30$ already. 10$ for non sqi. All sets of armors you could think of, mid headgears weapons, etc. istill think it was close to 2k, not the 600$ he actually claims to have paid. That doesnt matter though.

What do you guys expect now? should i delete this thread? I wont, cause as your replies show, what i actually said was true, and how all this happened was quite wrong of the aro staff.

Meh =P

[GorthexTiger]

@ GorthexTiger: I don't really understand you at all.  How can you consider the server owner selfish if he sells his car to continue hosting the server? Perhaps you were thinking of the word selfless?   Anyway, if things are so bad for the server that the owner has to sell his car (not sure if this is true or not) to support the server, I don't see why he should do recoveries for free. Does that even make sense?  "The server is having issues so lets just drop this fair source of income!"
Maybe I am just misreading (in which case, for give me). As for anthem not being updated... Players are working on testing an eAthena server as I am typing this. Changes may be slow but they certainly are being made.

It was selfless, I made a typo. Even with the typo though, I'm sure people could assume what I was posting from my imprinted sarcasm in that post.

And I reconsider: paying for item recovery is actually a good idea; for a server with financial problems. Most servers won't due it since its the players responsibility to keep their account safe. Period.

But, if they want to spend time to recover people's items: hey, go for it. Only problem I see with this is...

You could technically hack someone's account, and hold their items hostage, and charge them money for it.

If I had free time(patience, dilligence, motivation, skills, whatever), I'd hack Anthem, steal people's items, and charge them HALF of what it'd take to pay a GM to get their items back.

I get money, they get their items, its a win-win situation.

They don't pay, I delete the character who has the items, even more a Win-Win situation.

Rinse and repeat.

I think paying $2.5k is a bit much just to recover some items, when, I think it could've been resolved had there been better communication, or,
in a more drastic case: you pay the douche bag who takes your items for probably 1/4th of what the GM team is asking to recover items, since,
the person who took your items doesn't give a s***: they want to make the price low because any money they could be receiving is better than
nothing and just getting banned. But they can't make it too high, because if they make it too high, they might as well just pony up the extra cash and
and pay to get a 100% done deal.

What's already been said in this thread though, was the fact that payment and recovery of these items lead to someone being banned. That's discouraging.

@eAthena Test Server: Problem being is that people may "see" improvements, but no one cares until the pudding has been served.

We had a test server for a while while we were perfecting some 3rd job improvements: it didn't matter that half the coding was f*** on the real server and that it was perfect
on the test server: it still had to be implemented.

inb4 Lock.

[~*LacusHime*~]

@ GorthexTiger: I don't really understand you at all.  How can you consider the server owner selfish if he sells his car to continue hosting the server? Perhaps you were thinking of the word selfless?   Anyway, if things are so bad for the server that the owner has to sell his car (not sure if this is true or not) to support the server, I don't see why he should do recoveries for free. Does that even make sense?  "The server is having issues so lets just drop this fair source of income!"
Maybe I am just misreading (in which case, for give me). As for anthem not being updated... Players are working on testing an eAthena server as I am typing this. Changes may be slow but they certainly are being made.

It was selfless, I made a typo. Even with the typo though, I'm sure people could assume what I was posting from my imprinted sarcasm in that post.

And I reconsider: paying for item recovery is actually a good idea; for a server with financial problems. Most servers won't due it since its the players responsibility to keep their account safe. Period.

But, if they want to spend time to recover people's items: hey, go for it. Only problem I see with this is...

You could technically hack someone's account, and hold their items hostage, and charge them money for it.

If I had free time(patience, dilligence, motivation, skills, whatever), I'd hack Anthem, steal people's items, and charge them HALF of what it'd take to pay a GM to get their items back.

I get money, they get their items, its a win-win situation.

They don't pay, I delete the character who has the items, even more a Win-Win situation.

Rinse and repeat.

I think paying $2.5k is a bit much just to recover some items, when, I think it could've been resolved had there been better communication, or,
in a more drastic case: you pay the ____ who takes your items for probably 1/4th of what the GM team is asking to recover items, since,
the person who took your items doesn't give a ____: they want to make the price low because any money they could be receiving is better than
nothing and just getting banned. But they can't make it too high, because if they make it too high, they might as well just pony up the extra cash and
and pay to get a 100% done deal.

What's already been said in this thread though, was the fact that payment and recovery of these items lead to someone being banned. That's discouraging.

@eAthena Test Server: Problem being is that people may "see" improvements, but no one cares until the pudding has been served.

We had a test server for a while while we were perfecting some 3rd job improvements: it didn't matter that half the coding was f*** on the real server and that it was perfect
on the test server: it still had to be implemented.

inb4 Lock.

Sorry my mistake. Thanks for posting/responding in a logical manner. Anyway, to respond to some of your statements.

Val (the person who paid the recovery fee) didn't even pay a quarter of $2,500. Bensei just happened to estimate an amount (which happens to be completely off).

I see what you're saying about how players shouldn't pay if somebody actually hacks their account and does something. To be honest, the gm's (in my opinion) are fair and treat every issue on a case by case basis. I'm fairly certain that the majority of people who get, "hacked" in Anthem shared a password with somebody. The gm's look through the logs and figure out who was actually hacked and who was simply neglectful. Sorry for not elaborating on that but I do see your point.

@Temjin: What proof do you have that this story is false? I'm not quite sure how you can consider my statements nonsensical while you simply ignore them and deny what they state even though you aren't related to the issue. My clarity on the subject at hand may not be 100% but it sure is a lot clearer than the "facts" you're sharing. Insulting a person during an argument is simply a logical fallacy which makes you look foolish.

@Bensei: I can't claim to know the total "profits" that the gm's made off the server in the past but I do know they didn't exactly strike it rich. Stating that I can't even imagine how much they gained after stating that I don't understand the whole story leads me to wonder... Do YOU know the entire story? It sounds like your exaggerating (or even just sharing false information) so that the Gm's seem like horrible monsters. If you have some sort of amazing piece of evidence that I seem to be overlooking, please share it with the rest of us.

As for that topic.. Perhaps this topic is more related to the issue at hand.

http://www.anthemro.com/forums/index.php/topic,85113.0.html

[bensei]

the gms arent sone kind of monsters, they are adults. and like every adult they want to earn money, the more the better.

[bensei]

Yea lacus, other server owners are adults too, and i do not think getting money for the work you do is wrong. Other server owners live from their donations as well, however, they dont actually crave for the money. I mean lets be honest, 30$ per mvp card etc? I remember Debbie getting a 1-2k Dollar a day in real good months. Even Talis made quite a bit money from the server at first, even tho the population became less after the talonro split i remember him helping a girl in america to move out from her parents to live with him, buying a car, etc. Before he didnt have any serious job i think. At least he never told me about one so who knows. Still, considering his age etc, he surely had quite a good income. However, i do believe that anthemro is poor now. they dont try to switch to eathena out of fun.

also guys, keep the insults away for real, i dont want to have this locked D:!

Even if its a **** thing to do, but where would one report an aegis server? =I

[~*LacusHime*~]

Yeah... I think I've given up trying to explain my views. To each their own I suppose. No point in debating when the person you're talking to completely ignores your response or flings insults when they are proven incorrect (and then counters with the same opinion they have been posting each time).

I just don't feel the server should be judged by the opinions of a few people.

[GorthexTiger]

Yeah... I think I've given up trying to explain my views. To each their own I suppose. No point in debating when the person you're talking to completely ignores your response or flings insults when they are proven incorrect

There is no proof here.

All there is, is words.

Even with the credit card receipt, all it was is a bunch of words with text, which can be easily copied and pasted off something as simple as Newegg.

There is no proof anywhere to say "Yes Anthem is a money sucking pit" or that it isn't.

The only person who knows that is the person who "supposedly" sold his car.

If you want to get into the semantics of "proof" here, there a TON of things that should be / could be shown:

-Credit Card Statements:
-Paypal Invoices
-DMV Record or Invoice of Transfer of Ownership (oh, this would be good)
-Proof of Insurance (that said car even existed or was insured)
-Hosting Invoices / Receipts
-Pictures, of all items, said above with the appropriate personal information blacked out.

Since any / all of these could clear the shadow over Anima / Anthem's reputation, none of them have been provided. All there are, is words, accusations from 2 groups on different sides who have nothing to back them up but more words.

Like I said before, you have nothing but words to back up your statements, and to declare "Ad Hominem" is a cop-out.

All it does is says that the other person is more interested in making you appear more stupid than actually debating your argument.

Which is fine, but it doesn't prove that your argument is right either.

The only thing we know, is the person who would know / could know, is Anthem's administrator, which I doubt will make an appearance with said items. (Not to call him out or anything, but I doubt that this will be provided).

Because it can't / won't be provided, it gives people the suspicion (and sometimes, the reason) to accuse Anthem / Anima of hiding something.

Sorry to say, but no one here has clarity on anything so your clarity is just as bad as everyone elses.

I just don't feel the server should be judged by the opinions of a few people.

This is the internet, and everyone is going to have their opinion, regardless. The only "few people" you are referring to are the people who actually had the time / or felt the need to post.

[Relics]

Temjin
Warned for 3 days, derailing thread, bad words (tut tut tut)

Kenshi.
Moderation status by 3 days, attempt to derail thread.

Gemerafa
Those kind of reactions are unneeded. They set a base for derailment, please don't do it again.

Some messages removed mostly due to derailment.
For the last time, Rant and Rave section is indeed rant and rave, but stay on-topic. No personal vendettas.

if you feel like I made an unfair decision, PM me.

Thread unlocked per request

[Denia]

All there is, is words.

Even with the credit card receipt, all it was is a bunch of words with text, which can be easily copied and pasted off something as simple as Newegg.

There is no proof anywhere to say "Yes Anthem is a money sucking pit" or that it isn't.

The only person who knows that is the person who "supposedly" sold his car.

If you want to get into the semantics of "proof" here, there a TON of things that should be / could be shown:

-Credit Card Statements:
-Paypal Invoices
-DMV Record or Invoice of Transfer of Ownership (oh, this would be good)
-Proof of Insurance (that said car even existed or was insured)
-Hosting Invoices / Receipts
-Pictures, of all items, said above with the appropriate personal information blacked out.

Since any / all of these could clear the shadow over Anima / Anthem's reputation, none of them have been provided. All there are, is words, accusations from 2 groups on different sides who have nothing to back them up but more words.

Like I said before, you have nothing but words to back up your statements, and to declare "Ad Hominem" is a cop-out.

All it does is says that the other person is more interested in making you appear more stupid than actually debating your argument.

Which is fine, but it doesn't prove that your argument is right either.

The only thing we know, is the person who would know / could know, is Anthem's administrator, which I doubt will make an appearance with said items. (Not to call him out or anything, but I doubt that this will be provided).

Because it can't / won't be provided, it gives people the suspicion (and sometimes, the reason) to accuse Anthem / Anima of hiding something.

Sorry to say, but no one here has clarity on anything so your clarity is just as bad as everyone elses.

This is the internet, and everyone is going to have their opinion, regardless. The only "few people" you are referring to are the people who actually had the time / or felt the need to post.

You know what, for s*** and giggles, I'll gather all that and post it.

The only thing with the DMV records would be the fact that the car, is in his gf's name, since it belonged to the both of them. However, I can white out all HER information, excluding her initials maybe? Since I don't really want to post her name on here. But I can post the buyer's first name, along with the checks made out to both me and the gf (2 checks, the car was a total of $12,000 ... although way under the price of the car itself).

Hell, I can even post the vin, though, would that be pretty bad to post? Identity theft junk and all? Don't think I can post the insurance... it expired a while ago and I never saved it. But heck, I think I might still even have the dealership records of when they both bought the car.

Paypal also doesn't really have an "invoice" but I can print out the whole, "frozen" page thing. Although, only to the one that I have access to, which was my own, which was frozen in conjunction with AnthemRO's since Talis requested that I use my own paypal until Anthem's was unfrozen lol YAY! But again... a print out.

PS. Credit card statements will be my own, and I'll have to black out some of the things I bought on there since they're private information. You know... all that pornography websites I subscribe to and all that junk.

Stay tuned yay!

For starters, yeah I know a screen cap, but yeah, I'll get the actual statements later on this upcoming week, probably will do it at work lulz.



But quite frankly, no matter what things I gather and post, those who don't like Anthem, will honestly feel the same way. Many of them still won't believe me, if not the majority; and will still retain their opinion of the server. Those who like the server will not believe me, say it's all fake unless they see it themselves, and those who like the server will believe it.

The majority of will not believe it. If I made a rant about anthem, stating that the server owner were an illegal alien living in another country and teerkin ourrr jerbsssss, I'm pretty sure a lot of people would believe me, due to the amount of people who are angry at the server/say things about the server itself. It's just the way things go, not QQing, but it's human nature to get all riled up and spread rumor like that. And they will especially believe it since it is a descendant of AnimaRO.

Although, you never really hear about TalonRO, or the whereabouts and stuff of the server owner. Since talonRO was also a spawn of AnimaRO. Their fault for keeping a similar name/website and junk. lol.

[soapbox] Anyway, I'm not stating this because I'm FOR the server, I'm quite neutral about it after all that's happened, a little angry at how much work and effort I put into it, and getting banned from the forums (which is another story), and also it being a thankless job which everyone, RMS/Anthem players etc, do nothing but fling accusations and s*** at you. My time GMing for Anthem, and being Talis' friend and helping him with Anthem crap, completely sucked. [/soapbox]