Payon Stories has been DEVASTATED by the guild [p2w]

[2k2]

p2w has zero affiliation with payon stories staff, cool conspiracy theory though!

No conspiracy at all, you just admitted on the other reply that the player/guild that put you on your place got banned for something much less worse than what p2w has been doing since the very beginning of the server, with ZERO bans LOL.

The server is dead and hasn't grown since its start with ~300 online playercount, with the same stupid players still and guilds because as soon as people see the association between this toxic clown guild and the server staff, they nope out immediately.

[misterj]

Funny how someone who made money off the server who had both p2w and TMW are sucking their nuts dry.

i cannot name a single person in p2w or tmw, it probably goes both ways. any server i was part of i just did to help friends and was for 0 personal profit, run strictly because guilds wanted somewhere to woe on.
secondly, this server uses trans mechanics with reverted traps and nothing else. it's effectively just trans woe for people with 3rd world pcs.

Thats funny coming from the guy that told staff members to kill themselves or calling them fa--its all the time, not to mention how you would talk about raping sohees to death and keep going after they've died [On global chat]. Pretty much a demon calling a nun a sinner. I still have no clue why they gave you so many chances.

the relationship between staff and all players should by nature be antagonistic.

[Nova]

We would appreciate it if people stopped posting conspiracy theories and porno of the furry kind in our Payon Stories community thread. Perhaps a mod could remove that.

There is no Admin/GM corruption in Payon Stories.

Cheaters get banned if they are caught.

RMT probably exists, but everyone is trying their hardest to catch these criminals.

There is little to zero tolerance for bad language on the Payon Stories server and discord.

Everyone who says differently is simply being a hater and/or wishes for the server's downfall. It's not nice. 


Edit: Thanks mod-person. 

[Lunalepsy]

Is this the same p2w from iRO?

[Nova]

Is this the same p2w from iRO?

It's the same guild yes.

Also small update on the WoE situation on our server... We have lost. p2w pretty much won everything. Our alliance has lost several guilds due to getting caught and banned for cheating and some just giving up and quitting. We tried really hard to turn the situation around, but it wasn't meant to be. We'd still like to thank everyone for their help and support over the last 6 months or so! It was fun while it lasted.

Unfortunately Payon Stories is now a p2w dominated server and that's that.

Peace

[Ayami]

I like Payon Stories, I have great respect for most of the staff there, I've had good and bad times with them from when everything was fine with OathRO, then come the OathKepper problem and then PS server.
They are good people and are trying their best to improve the server state and although I am no longer affiliated with the staff and stopped playing PS many months ago, I still cheer for them BUT I admit that this extreme competitiveness was one of several small reasons that made me leave the server, since FOR ME, the small ones have together into a big one, but as said before in the post, this is somewhat expected in a low-rate WOE scenario?

As a low-rate, only those who are more dedicated/have more time to play have more impact in WOE than guilds that don't, fuse this with the public fact of RMT between guilds makes the woe scenario a competitive hell and with monetary value. Dude, I spent weeks and dozens of hours of my life creating maps and even totally custom MVP and when it was released I saw some guilds rushing the entire background, exploiting MVP weaknesses and practically monopolizing it a few days later, not letting anyone else even see the MVP alive.
And this was the same for other custom content that I just wanted people to enjoy without all the competitiveness that comes from WOE, so I think you guys get the point. I know that not everyone acts this way, but unfortunately this kind of behavior is common on low-rate servers where WOE is prominent and, unfortunately, unhealthy for me and for so many other people who have identified with what I've written.

[2k2]

Is this the same p2w from iRO?

Yes. Aaron's bunch of clowns and weirdos. iro scrubs, p2w etc. Doing the very same thing they do in every server, then crying at how the RO community is dying or becoming more and more casual.

I like Payon Stories

Are you the same Ayami that was a major part of Oath's implosion? The one who was aggressively protecting Oath, their antics and the general corruption and problems in that server?

The problems you talked about are not exclusively tied to the WoE or competitive scene, it's more of a problem with toxicity and the inability of the server's staff to handle it, or in some cases, directly help/protect the toxic side instead of punishing them, which is what happened in Payon Stories and what always happened in servers like Talon Tales. Server staff protecting toxic players, protecting their RMT schemes and such is what kills the server, not WoE or overall competitive scene.

Take Origins as an example, the server had a very competitive PvE scene and the WoE scene was alright, with lots of old guilds/groups competing for years, some dating back from official servers, and the toxicity there wasn't blatant or everywhere (besides the usual "ggnoobs" or sending emoticons upon winning) because the staff was actively punishing it and enforcing their rules, without protecting specific individuals or entire groups. Toxicity is dominant only on servers where the staff doesn't give a f***. Servers where the staff actually act like staff, toxicity is the least of the problems.

Payon Stories had a solid community (excluding p2w group, where if they were banned from the start, the server would be in a much better place right now) and a solid shot at succeeding after the fiasco that OathRO was, but bad decisions alongside with stupid, useless and corrupt GMs/Moderators is what slowly killed/is killing the server.

[Sairek Ceareste]

Yes. Aaron's bunch of clowns and weirdos. iro scrubs, p2w etc. Doing the very same thing they do in every server, then crying at how the RO community is dying or becoming more and more casual.
Are you the same Ayami that was a major part of Oath's implosion? The one who was aggressively protecting Oath, their antics and the general corruption and problems in that server?

The problems you talked about are not exclusively tied to the WoE or competitive scene, it's more of a problem with toxicity and the inability of the server's staff to handle it, or in some cases, directly help/protect the toxic side instead of punishing them, which is what happened in Payon Stories and what always happened in servers like Talon Tales. Server staff protecting toxic players, protecting their RMT schemes and such is what kills the server, not WoE or overall competitive scene.

Take Origins as an example, the server had a very competitive PvE scene and the WoE scene was alright, with lots of old guilds/groups competing for years, some dating back from official servers, and the toxicity there wasn't blatant or everywhere (besides the usual "ggnoobs" or sending emoticons upon winning) because the staff was actively punishing it and enforcing their rules, without protecting specific individuals or entire groups. Toxicity is dominant only on servers where the staff doesn't give a f***. Servers where the staff actually act like staff, toxicity is the least of the problems.

Payon Stories had a solid community (excluding p2w group, where if they were banned from the start, the server would be in a much better place right now) and a solid shot at succeeding after the fiasco that OathRO was, but bad decisions alongside with stupid, useless and corrupt GMs/Moderators is what slowly killed/is killing the server.

Staff can only work with what they're reported with - for the most part. Obviously they can do their own sleuthing with logs and the like but player reports is the major thing that nails people who break the rules.


It was always strange to me how everyone at my time as being a CM lead on PS said that P2W engages in RMT and the like, or other kinds of cheating on the server, but nobody in my time with being on staff had ever reported anything about such claims despite it apparently being so blatantly obvious that "everyone" knows and despite nobody coming forward to make a case. There was literally nothing more than "I can't prove anything but trust me bro".
...To which some of the people even making those claims were caught cheating or, even more ironically, RMT themselves.

Either they're extremely good at hiding it to the point they can even obfuscate it from the servers' logs (which literally tracks everything, but it is still possible by being smart and patient with the trading), or people are just angry that they played better than them and are throwing accusations like a lot of people in online games stereo-typically do when they're upset at someone and don't want to take responsibility for their own mistakes.


I'm not sure just banning people en'masse for either no reason other than "you were in this guild in another server" or mere assumptions with no actual evidence (not even circumstantial evidence) by a loud crowd of people, many who would benefit from those specific peoples' removal, is a good look for the server either, and would be against the vision of Payon Stories as a whole to begin with.

[Metan]

The problems you talked about are not exclusively tied to the WoE or competitive scene, it's more of a problem with toxicity and the inability of the server's staff to handle it, or in some cases, directly help/protect the toxic side instead of punishing them, which is what happened in Payon Stories and what always happened in servers like Talon Tales. Server staff protecting toxic players, protecting their RMT schemes and such is what kills the server, not WoE or overall competitive scene.

... all while labeling WoE players as a whole toxic scum, a view that was not exclusive to Ayami; as if only WoE players were capable of crossing certain lines, unlike PvM players, casuals and such who are basically cherubim. Ironic, considering how it all turned out.

That said, I don't think all of them were protected (as in, deliberately shielded from punishment); I was witness to some aggression and harassment, sometimes completely unjustified (or coming from unknown alts), some of them even being directed at me. Some of them were reported; none of them faced any sort of punishment. Toxicity becomes recurrent not just due to staff corruption but also lack of punishment. It doesn't matter if it's just a one day ban: if you know they actually enforce it, you'll think twice. In short, things got out of control because they did jack. They were spineless. Which leads me to this:

It was always strange to me how everyone at my time as being a CM lead on PS said that P2W engages in RMT and the like, or other kinds of cheating on the server, but nobody in my time with being on staff had ever reported anything about such claims despite it apparently being so blatantly obvious that "everyone" knows and despite nobody coming forward to make a case. There was literally nothing more than "I can't prove anything but trust me bro".
...To which some of the people even making those claims were caught cheating or, even more ironically, RMT themselves.

Either they're extremely good at hiding it to the point they can even obfuscate it from the servers' logs (which literally tracks everything, but it is still possible by being smart and patient with the trading), or people are just angry that they played better than them and are throwing accusations like a lot of people in online games stereo-typically do when they're upset at someone and don't want to take responsibility for their own mistakes.

People won't report things that they know the staff is likely to not investigate (and punish) properly. To some, the simple fact they're allowed in shows that either the staff is composed of inexperienced people who didn't do their homework or they're in it with them; even if it appears unfair to think such, the conclusion either way is "why bother." Personally, that you even entertain the idea that they might be innocent just because some accusers were caught cheating, as if life is a black-and-white board where one such fact confirms their innocence, in spite of loud concerns about them, tells me that it's the former: inexperienced, perhaps even childish (in behavior or in perspective) people in charge. At any rate, to some, their presence alone is enough to dissuade them from joining the server.

[Sairek Ceareste]

... all while labeling WoE players as a whole toxic scum, a view that was not exclusive to Ayami; as if only WoE players were capable of crossing certain lines, unlike PvM players, casuals and such who are basically cherubim. Ironic, considering how it all turned out.

That said, I don't think all of them were protected (as in, deliberately shielded from punishment); I was witness to some aggression and harassment, sometimes completely unjustified (or coming from unknown alts), some of them even being directed at me. Some of them were reported; none of them faced any sort of punishment. Toxicity becomes recurrent not just due to staff corruption but also lack of punishment. It doesn't matter if it's just a one day ban: if you know they actually enforce it, you'll think twice. In short, things got out of control because they did jack. They were spineless. Which leads me to this:
People won't report things that they know the staff is likely to not investigate (and punish) properly. To some, the simple fact they're allowed in shows that either the staff is composed of inexperienced people who didn't do their homework or they're in it with them; even if it appears unfair to think such, the conclusion either way is "why bother." Personally, that you even entertain the idea that they might be innocent just because some accusers were caught cheating, as if life is a black-and-white board where one such fact confirms their innocence, in spite of loud concerns about them, tells me that it's the former: inexperienced, perhaps even childish (in behavior or in perspective) people in charge. At any rate, to some, their presence alone is enough to dissuade them from joining the server.

P2W members report things of people clearly breaking the rules > those people get banned
People accuse P2W members of breaking rules but don't report them > 

For what it's worth, staff doesn't often regulate private chats such as party chat since players can moderate them themselves. Only at times where infractions are egregious. Calling each other poopy heads in party chat when either or can leave the party (or party leader can kick) is a waste of staffs' time when they're obviously understaffed and behind on everything else as it is already (assassin rework when).
This isn't black and white though. Some people did report when some P2W members acted out of line, and they were properly punished, just like anyone else who broke the rules.

At the end of the day, I (and rest of staff) based rulings via factual things that were in front of us. I had my own opinions of course, but that doesn't mean anything, especially when told to do my role a specific way for integrity and unbiased sakes. If I did it any other way, then it really would be biased staff, because then that's ruling based on feelings or ruling based on peer pressure (peers who have their own biases) rather than hard data evidence (like a replay) that can be actually analyzed down to each individual frame.

Either way, people who still make the 'biased staff' claim are ignoring the fact that staff has rotated so much that not a single person on the moderation team are even the same people anymore almost twice over. There's been... what, 30 staff members if you include event staff? Is every single person in cahoots with P2W or something and not a single person has snitched yet?


Speaking of me, I indeed didn't have any idea who P2W was starting back in OathRO nor the apparently infamy they have. So no, I didn't do my homework; and I never did something like CMing before. So yes, you kind of described me pretty well.
Which is why I'm pretty sure it's not staff being biased (and able to not let me in about their devious plan to let P2W dominate the server) or are giving p2w any special favors. A bunch of staff are/were just like me. Inexperienced and frankly, pretty incompetent (we were in my opinion). I literally started off with 0 hours of experience, in a leadership position, when I am the opposite of a leader-type person when I wanted to be writing content for the server instead. Hindsight is 20/20 but it's pretty obvious to see why that lead to problems right away, on top of the idea of the server expected to be small and became literally 10x bigger than expected.


Anyway, to be clear: I'm not trying to say that I don't see any merit behind wanting to pre-ban or simply refuse service to a specific infamous group; A privately owned server can ultimately do whatever they want at the end of the day.
My main concern however is with blacklisting an entire guild of people, rather than just specific individuals who are proven to be a problem. I wouldn't want to join a server like that personally where I could be punished before even joining the server because someone else I know or played with before in another time and place did a bad thing.

[Playtester]

Which leads me to this:
People won't report things that they know the staff is likely to not investigate (and punish) properly.

How would people know that the staff doesn't do anything if they never tried even once?

Also, that the guild members have a "rude style" when it comes to talking is obvious even to me from just some messages I saw on here. And you can argue whether that should be bannable or not.

But reporting for RMTing is a completely different topic. If nobody ever reports that and people just claim so in public chats, I personally would assume those claims are probably fake and done by people who just don't like them.

------------

To be honest keeping a good WoE balance on low rate servers is nearly impossible without the GMs cheating to help the weaker guilds. It doesn't require GMs cheating for one guild to dominate because the way RO is designed (rewarding victories with more power) this is how it will always end up, no RMT or GMs creating MVP items out of thin air required.

[Metan]

Speaking of me, I indeed didn't have any idea who P2W was starting back in OathRO nor the apparently infamy they have. So no, I didn't do my homework; and I never did something like CMing before. So yes, you kind of described me pretty well.
Which is why I'm pretty sure it's not staff being biased (and able to not let me in about their devious plan to let P2W dominate the server) or are giving p2w any special favors. A bunch of staff are/were just like me. Inexperienced and frankly, pretty incompetent (we were in my opinion). I literally started off with 0 hours of experience, in a leadership position, when I am the opposite of a leader-type person when I wanted to be writing content for the server instead. Hindsight is 20/20 but it's pretty obvious to see why that lead to problems right away, on top of the idea of the server expected to be small and became literally 10x bigger than expected.

Just to be clear, I'm referring to PS exclusively, because stating the same about Oath staff would be extremely dishonest of me. I remember some staff member back then (I think it was Oath, actually) stating on Discord that you'd planned things based on a small player base, and suddenly your server exploded in popularity and it was really hard to keep up, and I think it's a legitimate explanation.

I don't think the same should apply to PS, however, because not only you guys did have a second chance to improve on your staff knowledge, after taking a breather from all that had happened, but also you pretty much had to, because precedents were set. If we're to take anything from Reborn is that, taking it all with a grain of salt, RMTers can and will fool you guys and you won't even suspect it. The way I see it, you caught a couple small fish by the surface, but not the big boys in the depths.

Anyway, to be clear: I'm not trying to say that I don't see any merit behind wanting to pre-ban or simply refuse service to a specific infamous group; A privately owned server can ultimately do whatever they want at the end of the day.
My main concern however is with blacklisting an entire guild of people, rather than just specific individuals who are proven to be a problem. I wouldn't want to join a server like that personally where I could be punished before even joining the server because someone else I know or played with before in another time and place did a bad thing.

Ehh, that only makes sense if you assume the guild as a whole isn't aware of each other's shortcomings, and wouldn't allow themselves to be associated with them. Not every guild is like that, and if they're keeping such people in their ranks regardless, they're, more likely than not, not one of these.

How would people know that the staff doesn't do anything if they never tried even once?

Also, that the guild members have a "rude style" when it comes to talking is obvious even to me from just some messages I saw on here. And you can argue whether that should be bannable or not.

But reporting for RMTing is a completely different topic. If nobody ever reports that and people just claim so in public chats, I personally would assume those claims are probably fake and done by people who just don't like them.

And how exactly are they going to report? Where would the evidence come from? Note that even if I know this guy has been banned before by RMT in one or more servers, not every GM or admin (to not say none of them) will make all their evidences public, they'll issue bans, announce them, and that's that; and I'm not going to keep a ban collage of every single RMTer or botter out there just to present it as proof to an imaginary server I might play in the future. I don't think I'm alone in that regard. Moreover, it's reasonable to think that RMTers with half a brain will be discreet about their practices. I won't be able to prove anything unless said person is hopelessly stupid, and that's not something to count on. Therefore, all that's left is warn the staff that so and so have a record, then leave it to them.

[2k2]

Sairek, you fail to realize that nobody has any concern about p2w "dominating" the server. OP was exposed on reddit by being a p2w member doing this kind of thread just to draw attention to this guild and make them look big/accomplished. Nobody gives a f*** about this guild since they have been around for a good time and were always pretty bad and clowns, always avoiding competing against actual guilds and playing on small casual low-rate servers only, since they're the type of people to play RO for 18h/day. Payon Stories level is at most laughable and it's a casual server, which is exactly the type of server that guild plays on, because everytime they played on a legit competitive server, they were stomped hard.

People WERE reporting every kind of bad things in your server with not only screenshots and videos, but also @request staff immedietaly to check on bots and the staff still didn't do s*** about it. People were even forcing actions/reaction on them to show and prove they were bots yet the response from the staff was simply "they're not bots!" or "we're going to further investigate" while the bot was still there, playing 24h a day for weeks, lol.

And how can you say there was never any bias towards p2w when during the few weeks I played there, the discord was a dumpster fire and cesspool of toxicity and corruption because the staff had the bright idea of creating something called "PvM Council" where a selected group of players would have direct decisions on the server's changes, balance and future, and all of these selected players were from p2w guild, which obviously caused an uphoar in the community. Members from this guild were trash talking and bashing people on discord 24/7, in front of the staff and CMs with no punishment, and when people attacked them back with the same wording, the staff banned the victims instead, which then made p2w members laugh and mock the community even more. Worst part of all this was when A LOT of people revolted and forced the staff to do things and they actually banned like 1 or 2 players (out of 20+) of that guild and they created an "unaffiliated community discord" (GMs/CMs of Payon Stories were in this discord server in position of power/moderation btw, so they were aware of everything happening/being said there and also were part of it) where they were doing racist, sexist, mysogynist, homofobic attacks and even doxxing players of opposite guilds/groups in PS community, the staff was well aware of it and who was it, yet they refused to act/ban them in-game simply because it "happened on an unaffiliated discord, we have no control of what happens there", but you do know what happens there and who are the people, you just refused to act because of who they are.

How would people know that the staff doesn't do anything if they never tried even once?

People did. Tirelessly for a long time. The staff just didn't gave a f*** about it. Payon Stories is heavily botted (was, at least, during the time I played, and this is the main reason the server's economy is beyond f*** too), most stablished players or players from the big guilds there multiclient, the staff is aware about it and didn't do anything, but go you, a newly-joined casual loner multiclient > instant ban.

Also, that the guild members have a "rude style" when it comes to talking is obvious even to me from just some messages I saw on here. And you can argue whether that should be bannable or not.

But reporting for RMTing is a completely different topic. If nobody ever reports that and people just claim so in public chats, I personally would assume those claims are probably fake and done by people who just don't like them.
required.

It's nothing about the "rude style" way of addressing. They're antisocial tryhards that don't live outside of this game, so that's what you expect from such bunch.

Problem is when they go beyond the game and personally attack other people with racism, homophobia, sexism and even further beyond with doxxing/publicly sharing real information of other players, such as social media profiles, pictures, addresses etc. Payon Stories' staff was aware of this, witnessed this and were also part of this since they had positions of power in the "unaffiliated discord server" they were doing this after they got banned from PS' discord.

RMT is not as hard to prove as server's staff claim. There are servers MUCH bigger and valuable than PS with little-to-no RMT because the staff knows what to do and how to do. Also the solution is simple: it's widely known who are the RMTers in the RO community, why is it such a problem to prevent/not allow such people joining your server? If they have the history of RMTing in every single server they play on (like Reborn/p2w guild), why do you think they will act any different in your server? Lmao, that's why PS community just gave up on it, since it was proven in OathRO that the staff was directly involved in the RMT scheme, people knowing Reborn is still playing PS, they instantly assume the staff is once again working with him.

To be honest keeping a good WoE balance on low rate servers is nearly impossible without the GMs cheating to help the weaker guilds. It doesn't require GMs cheating for one guild to dominate because the way RO is designed (rewarding victories with more power) this is how it will always end up, no RMT or GMs creating MVP items out of thin air required.

No one in that community ever complained about WoE balance between guilds. People are more than fine with winning or losing. OP is a known troll spread misinformation and was exposed on the many threads they created on reddit as someone from p2w doing this just to make the guild look good/big. Nobody in the community/other guilds shared any feeling with any of the information in these troll threads or backed it, so don't assume people in the server made any complaints about WoE balance etc.

The problem was and always will be at how this guild has been hurting the server since Oath's day in many different ways, including actual real life crime ways, but the staff still pretends nothing happens and keeps with s*** claims like "we're inexperienced, we don't know what we do!". RMTing, botting, multiclienting, cheating, doxxing etc were things players from this guild has always done and people got tired of reporting, but the only people that would get banned doing these were non-p2w players. And dare you to insist in a report with irrefutable evidence: the staff would ban you instead, lol.

Anyway, to be clear: I'm not trying to say that I don't see any merit behind wanting to pre-ban or simply refuse service to a specific infamous group; A privately owned server can ultimately do whatever they want at the end of the day.
My main concern however is with blacklisting an entire guild of people, rather than just specific individuals who are proven to be a problem. I wouldn't want to join a server like that personally where I could be punished before even joining the server because someone else I know or played with before in another time and place did a bad thing.

And what's the problem in that? If you know this specific guild RMTs (and break other rules) in every single server they play, how the f*** can you think it will be any different in your server? f***, they did it in the previous version of this same server, so tell me, what's the problem of protecting the server from future problems before it even become a problem?

And regarding banning other people for just associating with them: they're aware of who they are and what they do, they made the choice of playing with them, didn't they? So why are you being so sympathetic with people with such bad intentions? Nobody has a gun on their head forcing them to play with these desperate freaks. Why don't you use your sympathy to sympathize with legit players playing by the rules and being a good asset for your community? You literally killed your server because you decided a bunch of 15-20 weirdos are more important than the 500+ players in the community (judging by the server numbers these days vs when I played it at the beginning).

Anyway, for a person constantly claiming you have nothing to do with the server anymore, you really do work hard to protect their antics and corruption. If you only applied this hard work with fairness during the time you were CM, perhaps the server would be thriving right now, but alas.

[Ayami]

Are you the same Ayami that was a major part of Oath's implosion? The one who was aggressively protecting Oath, their antics and the general corruption and problems in that server?

Don't point fingers if you don't know what happened internally, in my eyes Oath was was different from what he became a few days later, deleting our entire database and refunding a sum he gave us so that the server could continue for a while, literally two stabs in the back in a few hours. Anyway, that's in the past and it doesn't matter anymore, I don't look back, looking to past is something that only those who are bored with life do, the important thing is not to commit them again.

Anyway, I've no longer been linked to PayonStories for almost a year, I don't know what's going on there anymore and my previous post was more of my own experience with the server and the staff, I still have respect for people like Dastgir who still maintain the server even though they're not forced to and even after Oath's problem.

[Ayami]

Anyway, I hope they solve this problem before the server dies, I don't have all the context/details as I've been away from PS for a while but, just as I did with Talon and Nova, I hope they maneged things around and solve it.
Because regardless of whether it's a good or bad server, as someone who does work and commissions for RO servers it's always sad to see all that work just go away in perspective of development.