no comment from me this time :/
best mvp job? i'll think best as in "best to kill mvp"
i am living in the old times lol i think hunter/sniper cuz they have the range which means they can use anyone around as a free meat shield...and that was my main reason to hate hunters/snipers. they are better than my fravourite class wizards since they can still deal alot of ranged damage from normal attack, not much cast time on bliz too damnit, dont you just hate them? especially during invasion events xD that's just me think, and in a case that i ignore all cards you can get for the class. But haha they can suck horribly in pvp/woe if they don't have the right equipment and skills/stats. just like all classes there's a pvp/woe build and a vs monster build ...
best pvp class...hmm i'll pick LK/paladin just cuz they are so hard to die lol ... no other comment, just i doubt if they are really fun to play with...i had a crusader on a 25x server before and leveling him was pretty boring or i was just a newb sader ...
PALI ROCKS HUNTER SUCKS IN PVP (D-E-F-E-N-D-E-R ) :D
Paladin is probly best suited for pvp(no heal item straight up battle)... defence wins games and sheild skills+heal>all defence.
For mvp... a fully tricked out asura champ will beat anything on most of the mvps(non ghost). quad liberation +10 mace and sp gears +lex = 200k asuras or so... i havent calced that in a while. takes about 5 seconds to reload asura so you can do enough damage in a couple of shots then sit back and let the rest kill and still get the mvp. Also you can overkill for mvp.
liberation ........(i am on a serv where card drop at 1% so getting a card is quite hard no deliberation for me :p
1% isnt so bad.. on iro/kro etc they use quad liberations for mvp monks and the rare is .01 ^^. On most mvpers you have to get a few sets of carded weapons(one for each group or maybe one for each size).. anyway so this way you can just hunt one set for all bosses. Abyss knights arent too hard at least. Also alternatively if really cant get any cards you can beat most people out of the mvp with a well built whitesmith using cart term and elemental 2 hand axes. Cost a good bit of money per mvp but with decent rates youd make it back from selling the drops.
on a low rate depending on dex with aglity effecting cast effectness and time between attacks like spamablity then a sniper if you know how to use
on a hr id say ether of a creator soul linker sin cross taekwon star glad
Hum, perhaps not the best job, but Wizards (high wiz, whichever XD) with maxed firewall (the the know-how to use it) can generaly keep the MVP at bay while they pelt it with spells.
on official / low rate, blacksmiths with lots of money are also good mvpers, they dont improve too much in rebirth cos max overthrust doesnt stack with mammonite. alot of their success is the damage they take as well as recieve, which helps mvp. be prepared to burn white pots like no tomorrow. id have to agree that snipers are good because they can mix element and cards easily, and a good wizard is always strong PVM anyways. champs go without saying really (hate champ XD)
pvp wise there is no best, all have str and weakness. champ is easiest to master in the most part, due to 1 hit kill asura and hugely powerful skills. the best all round pvper for many situations i have found to be vit spear knight/lord knight as u dont really have to many weaknesses, and enough HP to really have time to out tactic ur opponent. personally i always pvp with blacksmith and WOE with my sacrifice/GC/reflect/heal pally on IRO. (very effective build for teamwork - sacrifice + heal is awesome)
"Quite honestly, I think it matters who is in the room at the time. Because the only class that my SinX has ever lost to was a Champion.
But honestly, for low rate servers, I'd say the Swordsman classes.
For high rate, It's a tie between SinX and Champions.
Who ever said that Hunter/Sniper sucks. Has no idea what he's talking about. Most idiots put strength in an archer and complain about damage. Archers don't need STR! I don't know how much I must stress that."
For 99/70 situation with a max stat of 99
best mvp class (non-ghost) : champ, creator
best mvp class overall: soul linker (look the warm wind +esma >.<)
best pvp class: paladin, whitesmith
Best MVP character is a Creator.
No, best MVP not creator, is Soul Linker
Lord Knights are GODS at solo MvPing.
Highest HP amount, second best defense,and also Aura Blade gives you DEF piercing attacks.
So Aura Blade + Spiral Pierce with an elemental VVS Halberd or VVS Lance = Win.
(Make sure the element is effective against the MvP, if everything is neutral, just use a normal Lance.)
A +7-10 Lance[1] with an AbyssmalKnight card is nice.
Or maybe a +10 Quad-Abyssmal Pike.
Or even better, a +7 Pollaxe[1] with an AbyssmalKnight card.
(If you can afford it, Pollaxe has the most weight (more weight = better SpiralPierce damage) & is one-handed, making your defense better when you equip a shield.)
;)
LK lover aren't we :P
i like to mvp with wiz, i know i'm weird >__>
There really is no best. Why? Because we can all go back and forth giving answers saying if this person does this, then we can do that. Pointless. For MvPing AND PvP each class has the chance of getting it. Yes, even Priests and Soul Linkers. Depending on how one plays, or how they set it. Most of the discussion here seems to be the ones who take out the MvP the fastest. That doesn't necessarily mean it's the best. It's all situational.
Quote from: Mann on Jan 24, 2007, 01:20 PM
There really is no best. Why? Because we can all go back and forth giving answers saying if this person does this, then we can do that. Pointless. For MvPing AND PvP each class has the chance of getting it. Yes, even Priests and Soul Linkers. Depending on how one plays, or how they set it. Most of the discussion here seems to be the ones who take out the MvP the fastest. That doesn't necessarily mean it's the best. It's all situational.
I know what you mean, but we're just explaining why we
think one class is best for PvP/MvP.
(Read the thread title, genius.)
Quote from: itswilliam on Jan 24, 2007, 07:03 PM
I know what you mean, but we're just explaining why we think one class is best for PvP/MvP.
(Read the thread title, genius.)
And I'm stating why this thread shouldn't have been made. Oh wise one. If you knew what I meant, then there doesn't have to be a thought of which one is best. It's situational.
It is situational that's true, however there are some build/classes that are better at MVPing or PVPing than others. The skills of the player also plays for a lot. Still I see nothing wrong with stating what we think is the best. It's not like we're killing each other over it, it's ok to have opinions ;)
Quote from: Pandora on Jan 25, 2007, 10:11 AM
It is situational that's true, however there are some build/classes that are better at MVPing or PVPing than others. The skills of the player also plays for a lot. Still I see nothing wrong with stating what we think is the best. It's not like we're killing each other over it, it's ok to have opinions ;)
That's the thing though, the agreement dissipates about the opinion of something that is "better." Can you exactly explain what better is? People can say that SBK is better. Acid Bomb is better. A Tank Priest is better. Or killing someone as fast as you can, is better. I don't think anything is wrong about thinking something is best, but when stating it, it can be countered. We all are basing our opinions off of from the experiences is in game, but it's like majority have never worked on opposing classes.
@mann
aww...is cool and alright. As for the term "best" I think it refers to speed and dmg on the mvp as well as least number times of death right? I mean, we can make assumptions. There are classes that are obviously better than others in mvp. Although some can be debated. For example...on soloing mvps, priest is clearly not as good as a paladin.
and is ok if ppl think priests are best for mvp or w/e. i'm sure ppl will respect that, priest is the least likely character to die etc.
but we can still give opinion based on the way we interpret the question right? :P
Quote from: ClothoX on Jan 25, 2007, 01:08 PM
but we can still give opinion based on the way we interpret the question right? :P
Sure thing. :p
What I'm sick of seeing on every server is people copying one another, and trying to make builds that can kill people in one shot, and then miserably fail at it. Efist, EDP + Sonic Blow, Martyr's Reckoning + Tao Gunka. Not much thought process are involved. There's always team work. Weapon status cards. Armor status cards. And lots of skills are not being used when they could really be devastating.
HI LAE!!!! I FINALLY FOUND YOU ON HERE!!! XD
paladin, i can say why if you wish but pvp FTW!!!! and mvp ftw
Agree, best MVP character = also the worst PVP character = soul linker, and I married one =P
ah i like my ol Falconier sniper the best for MVP..
whoops, this is about PVP? my mistake :P :P
well, i dunno nuthin bout pvp, never like it. i prefer boss hunting in group together w/ my fellas.
Creator's own pretty hardcore. Acid Bomb and Homunculus ftw.
nah i got my answer ,Champion it is.But not those asra potters one.
I had a Pally and now a sader on a two low rate servers.....
The sader is not to good for mvp run in GC die. Shield boomerang weak. The other one is good forgot what it is sorry. Auto guard will only prolong your life. so heal yourself or hope the mvp is dead heal it. sader not in mvp.
As for pvp maybe, for not against sins or sinx I gotta resort to my GC cause thats what I use. As for bashing another knight its almost like equips and build vs equips and build.
Thank the gods the pally gets more skill points use shield chain and some slotted sword hopefully. Keep distance from your Lk and use shield chain use berserk endure and provoke if he gets close quickly cast gospel and uncast and go bashy happy or HC.
Pally cant be of much use in mvp for me sorry.
In my experience, one of the best (if not THE best) MVP classes is High Wizard. If you have a decent cast time (130+ DEX), you can usually root the MVP with Storm Gust while freezing/killing the spawns, so you won't have trouble from them. It's not foolproof, wind and holy element MVPs (i.e. Mistress, Randgris) will be hard with an SG build, but most MVPs will fall while you take minimal damage, it's just a matter of patience and not running out of SP. Kiel D-01, Ktullanux, and Gloom Under Night can all be soloed for EXP, while most anything under them can be killed easily (excepting the aforemented Wind and Holy elemental monsters).
Otherwise, Champions, Creators, and Snipers are good.
For MVPs, I'll have to go with creators. Name one other class that can solo Valkyrie Randgris easily. As long as you're not fighting a ghost property MVP, there's no way you can outdamage a creator. And even if the MVP does have low vit or is ghost property, a caster homunculus with throw out a pretty decent amount of damage on it. Of course, it won't be close to AD, but it'll be enough.
For PvP... Professor. I can't think of any 1v1 situation where a well-played professor would lose. They're great supporters, and damage dealers, in both PvP and WoE parties, and they have awesome damage reduction.
Rates make a big difference.
Soul Linker for MvP's, and Assassin Cross for PvP.
I've seen Professors played well also against High Wizards.
Sniper has the advantage over an Assassin Cross though, depending on the rates.
People choose Champions a lot, but I prefer the ability to kill while hiding.
Stalker having the ability to copy skills is useful and the ability to strip armor, but I personally don't play it because of how close you have to get to your enemy just to use strip by chance. Very effective if used correctly.
You're not going to kill everyone all the time so adjust your strategy and try playing to the weakness of your enemy.
The best way to test your skill and equipment is to go up against the same class that you're playing.
I don't see why people won't agree with professors being the best overall PvP class. Seriously, that have -no- weakness. Great damage reduction thanks to energy coat, so their low HP doesn't matter. Horribly high damage with 140 int, memo, and double cast. Great disables with stone curse and frost diver, plus their web ability. Great defensive skills such as soul burn (Yes, I consider burning the enemy's mana defensive) and wall of fog. Dispell combined with wall of fog turns champs and frenzy knights into big whiny novices in terms of power. Assassin crosses won't be able to one-hit them, and with their low reduction, they'll be dead after a bolt barrage (the after-cast delay from sonic blow should be enough for the professor to land atleast two level 10 bolts, both have an 80% chance of getting doubled). Snipers will get cursed/frozen/status'd in one way or another thanks to the status armor you're wearing, and if not, you could just burn their SP or use a hiding clip. Champs will never be able to land an asura on you. Dispell removes fury, agi up and bless, and soul burn burns all their sp. Stalkers can't really do much else than try to divest you, but seriously, even without your gears, you'll still kill a bow stalker due to wall of fog, and a melee one would die since you'll outdamage him by far using bolts.
I'll just apologize right away for trying to make my favourite class seem better than every class you posted, Zairik. I have a bad habit of diving straight into class discussions, rooting a bit too much for "my team". :<
I think for most people, myself included, have not seen an extremely good professor. I've yet to see one be played well. =/ I tired making one, but I had no clue what I was doing lol, and ran outa skill points quickly.
Yeah, Glenn, IMO, professor is the only class that actually require alot of talent to operate. My last one used all hotkeys avaliable in /bm, and that still wasn't enough. That's more than you can say about any other class, really.
Professor can get really complex but... mdef.
The champ build I am using is quite rare (max dex, high int, low str) but,
a professor is basically helpless in both pot and non-pot duels. The
only way to do any damage is to use max mind breaker, to cut down
the 100 + int mdef, and that results in 1k matk max dex holy lights
to the face. The average paladin build would fare the same as well.
Of course as a champ you need to be regenning with fury off to avoid
death in a non-pot duel.
If your logic holds, then novice is certainly the best class because it by
far requires the most skill to win in pvp/mvp, nearly infinite skill.
Better get that envenom clip ready.
I've already said too much... but I still want to say that the reason you
dont find any super skilled professors is that, those that would be
figure out that the weaknesses are unsurpassable and decide to go
with another more rewarding class. I must say however, in battles
more than 1vs1, professor really starts to shine as offensive and
defensive support.
On the contrairy, I believe professors are beasts at 1v1(If the player is good), the problem being they take allot more skill and a different strategy per every character.Though haven't found one I couldn't out Aid Potion with creator. D:
@Raou What would you say is the best classes, answer the question first before criticizing other people.
Do I have to walk you through mdef? Getting 70 mdef is not a hard task anymore for any acolyte class with the addition of high quality sandles, and paladins still have endure mdef, with that much mdef there is simply no way to damage fast enough against someone who has int and heals.
I'd declare best pvp a tie for paladin/sin-x. Sin-X can pretty much pop out of cloaking and kill anything instantly, but might have trouble with a good paladin. Paladins will pretty much survive anything, can block guillotine fist easy and even bring the champ down with every time, or simply use pressure to take all hp and sp. Paladin can't really kill priests though.
Champ is what I'de like to say is best... but I don't know if I believe that to be the case anymore.
If I remember correctly, in WoE, Mind Breaker affects normal mDef as well.
Also, 70 mDef is easy to come by, yes. But you can't expect to be able to optimize against the one you're dueling. Walking around with mDef gears would leave you vulnerable to non-spellcasters, while a professor wouldn't need to optimize his gears to completely nullify other casters.
A "normal" professor should be able to throw out around 4k damage with a level 10 bolt at a mid-mDef char. So, we'll say 2,5k on someone with good mDef. Minus, 100'ish per hit for the int, we're down to 1,5k. Then we remove 60% of their int def, meaning you'll add 60'ish damage a hit again. Back to 2,1k. Double cast makes that 4,2k, plus insanely fast cast time, and stone curse (You're counting in heals from the pally, meaning you're not wearing ED). I still can't see what problems a professor would have against a paladin.
For champs, they can't do jack without their SP and buffs, and as a professor you could just keep dispelling and burning. Even if you burn your own SP, you've dispelled before that, so you have the time to get one SP click, and swap with them. I've never seen a good champ that actually have any more than 40-50 int, so in the end, you'll be dealing more damage on them with bolts than what you'd deal on pallies. They also have less HP.
SinX cannot kill anyone instantly. EDP-Link-SB is enough to get them down to low HP, but they'll live, and the after-cast delay from SB is enough for you to get raped by bolt spam, or any strong attack, really, since you're in a katar build (no shield, unless you're horribly quick at swapping, which most people aren't).
Paladins are great tanks, and they're pretty much the bane of Asura-spammers. But that's about it. Occult Impacts eats them in a few hits, they don't have any really strong attacks (MR kills 35% of their own HP in 5 attacks, if I remember correctly. IMO, that's pretty damn crappy), and their only real strength in PvP is based on luck (Chance of blocking damage, Gospel).
Champs are good, there's no denying that. But asura can be countered easily, and let's just all agree that 99% of the champ players out there use that skill, and that skill only.
I still vote for professor though.
On a low-rate server where a healer is available, the best MVP classes are creators and champions. Creators for sheer damage output, Champions for 'most portable'...as theyre able to warp to and teleport around a map, asura-suicide, rinse and repeat. Creators have only a slightly harder time--the pain of warping and teleporting being easily solved by dual-logging a priest and using flywings. The only thing holding a creator back would be the task of keeping stock of grenade and acid bottles. To MVP a lord knight has to be geared for surviveability AND damage output, but they're comparably good as well.
PvP-wise, things are more delicate. It depends on what the server offers. Servers that sell acid/grenade bottles in vendors are most likely overrun with creators in PvP. Availability of deadly poison means a proliferation of Sonic Blow spamming sinXes. Berzebub and other cast-time-reducing cards tilts the tables towards high wizzes, and so on. Personally when on equal grounds, the only thing that can stop a Paladin in PvP is a demo-spamming creator, and thats only if the creator blue-pots its way through Pressure spam.
Mdef is relatively useless against good players, nonetheless players usually don't wear THAT much mdef or else they would have to give up other crucial pvp gears. Int only adds SOFT mDef, theres a huge difference compared to Hard mDef.
Never found a SinX I couldn't kill with Spear vit knight. Pally's aren't very strong in my eyes, just more like annoying tanks.
Baby Bard FTW! ;D
I think it's because other classes are easier for the quick kill like Asura Monks or EDP Sinx that you don't see Professors being played much. It takes too much skill to play them effectively for most people. When I first saw them I thought they were a weak version of a mage class for support so I didn't go for it, I went for the wizard class. On a 1/1/1 is seemed like a slower class to train without the extra offensive skills like the wizard has available. I've seen them used more as support than actual offensive attacks in WoE.
Imo Prof > High Wiz the problem being getting through sage. D:
I play Prof. I don't go bolter prof though, I play FS. [99/70 mid~highrates.]
I have a few things to say about Profs.
1- Team up any damage-dealing class with an FS Prof, and you have a winning team. ;) I can render any class practically useless, I can survive nearly everything (aside from az00ra <_<), aswell as buff my party for elite damage and provide them with infinite SP.
2- What annoys me about most Bolter Profs is how they don't play like they're Profs, they play like they were Wizards. I rarely ever see a bolter prof that dispells wisely or that uses magic rod when being casted upon. There are very few people who can play caster profs properly.. And these are very deadly.
I've never been much of a good damage-dealer, and I generally stick to Profs and HPriests. They can both be played offensively, though, and they excel at doing that.
My point is, you don't have to deal uber damage to be a good pvper. I mean, most champs suck donkey anyway. And uh, it's not the class that makes someone strong, it's how they play and how well they play.
Of course some skills ARE overpowered. Sin's Link and Asura, mainly. But well, you can always find a way around. =)
Professor is a totally awesome class, but I'd have to agree you can get shut down by good mdef, elemental armors, and on higher rate servers GTB. Plus professors get shafted on their HP multiplier in my opinion meaning if you don't have really good equips you're survivability is going to be too low which means it comes down to damage dealing potential and in my opinion professors were not built to deal damage effectively compared to the other trans classes. They're a support class in the end and really flourish in team play where their ability to neutralize so many things has a major impact.
I think best class for PvP is an EDP SB/Grimtooth SinX only because they're best suited to deal with every other class. If you know what type of battle you're going to be fighting then in almost every situation you can find a better class, but no other class has the balance to handle all the other classes in the same way. LK is a close second, but cloaking and back slide is much more useful than increased potion healing and increased walk speed in PvP. They have really good HP and since you're maxing str you have good carrying capacity for gears for all the situations you could possibly be in. With cloaking you're going to typically get the first strike too which is usually pretty devastating with EDP.
In a situation where you can have any equip you want that's obtainable through normal means a SinX would win hands down against every other class I think. A Pally and HP might be able to force a stalemate though. I'd like to see it play out.
in our server there is only 1 proffesor and one Champion untill now.(one month LAZY LVLERS D:)
the proffesor is quite experienced but has no chance in front of the champion Why?
because altough i hate to say it this champion has an extremely highbrid build
he could take him down with his 130 Str TSS or ranging palm and if that does not work.
he can use Mental streghnt and kill the prof :(
sad sad some champs are overpowered..
i say paladin rocks tough :D
The professor could just soul burn if he was about to become the victim of TSS.
Repeted soul burns aren't going to do any good if he can't get through the mdef. If you put this in a situation where you can't optimize your mdef, as you have to deal with multiple people at once, it's very likely that this situation would also permit SP items, in which case soul burn becomes useless.
There is that new wand that is coming out, wand of piercing. It might change things up a bit when you can pierce 10% of mdef (and maybe 1% for every upgrade, I'm not sure.) If you could pierce 15% even that gives you back like 100 damage per hit even on a high mdef person, which might be enough to turn the tables in some battles. We will just have to wait and see.
Quote from: Aqua on Dec 21, 2006, 09:28 AM
For high rate, It's a tie between SinX and Champions.
in high rate soul linker probably is the best in mvp'ing (although a little bit slower than champ on 1 hit ko, but esma with warmth wind can hit anything with AT LEAST 100% damage and beyond) (also not to mention esma can be spammed because it does not have high delay 1 asura = 3~5 esma) the only exception for linker is the wizard mvp in bio3 =.=" (but that's also the exception for sinx and champ since that mvp is ghosted with like 80 mdef =.=")
i played in high rate and raced a sinx on mvp... even he used EDP i still beat the crap out of him *he was hitting like average 45k+ each with 190s aspd, i was doing like 400k+ each with instant cast =.="*
lol this is just me
feel free to tell me im wrong k?
i think asura champ is perfect for mvping lol
as for pvp i say pali
i didnt read everythin cause is too much but my opinions are:
pvp: without pots----> lord knight. paladin
woe: with pots ----> withesmith
mvp: creator, azura champ, soul linker