(lousy) RO player needs help to find a new class =)

[Leamee]

Hello guys,

I usually play sniper or SL but I frankly suck at both classes - I've never killed an MVP and I don't PVP or WOE but that's just because I'm more into PVM & partying with people to go to harder dungeons.
I'm not a very competent player but I've been playing RO on and off for about 5 years now and started before SL and other trans classes were even created.
I played *a lot* at some point but ranged classes don't seem to like me, I still haven't mastered traps or hit-and-run. I did try though, I just don't get it I guess.
As a reasonably geared sniper/SL, I could mainly solo Kiel1 and GH (everything but bosses).  

Now people tell me that an archer/hunter can solo thor (the kasas anyway) and that you just need to run and blablablah, fully geared against fire I have trouble killing them beasts so yeah, I need a class change.
My second favorite class is whitesmith because I love forging, but they are very expensive and boring to level, so I usually partied with a couple of friends to make things more interesting and then bashed incu and succu once I had dough.

I'm looking for:
* A char that's very valuable in a party
* A char that doesn't need crazy gear or items like EDP or Acid Demo items

My no-no's:
*Champions (don't even go there, as I said I can't MVP, I lack the brain cells to do that, seriously, I want to MVP hunt in groups and do something useful but I'd die before my asura is over)
*Professors (too boring)
*EDP assassins (no farming please)
*Acid Demo Creas (same issue)
*Dancer (if I'm a bad snip how can I be a good dancer?)

Also, I like priests and have a thing for undead monsters, but I'm untrained when it comes to buffing parties so I'd need advice on how to be a good priest, and I really want to have a second character to actually deal damage. I got told that I was a lousy support priest but that's because I lack practice I guess. However I heard that being a good one is really hard especially when you're supporting a party of beginners. I did well as a vit-based undead-killing priest though, and enjoyed the levelling road but I need a damage dealer too. Undeads get old  

I've never really played assassins or stalkers, again you need to be quite skilled to hide, backstab etc, but I did have a grimtooth sin at some point (who didn't, seriously?). If it's not an EDP build I'd be willing to give it a whirl but again I need instructions. Since my server drop rate is not going to be over 200 for normal mobs I thought about making a gank rogue.

LKs and Paladins are very gear-dependent and that's my main problem, plus they are stuck in sh*tty levelling spots without a party so I don't know if they'd be good choices. Non-geared LKs or Paladins aren't very useful to a party when looking for an MVP tanker, might as well let the HP take the hits.
So I'm left with:
* Wizz (ranged class again so big ??)
* HP
* Sin (some builds)
* Stalker (if I level with a bow which I'm good at because I know all the spots I won't benefit from gank so I don't know)
* (LK/ Paladin?)
* Any other quirky class I haven't thought of
I'll make a merchant anyway, any sensible RO player should make one =)

Please add some class advice if you suggest a class and a possible build/ okay-ish equips given the fact that I won't have that much time to hunt godly equips and mainly want to have fun leveling/ item-hunting with parties as soon as possible.
Also, I need a damage dealer char even if someone manages to help me with the support HP class.

I'm thinking Odin Temple, Morroc Shadows, Endless Tower, Thanatos, pure fun basically. I know there's no perfect char but I mainly want to be useful or deal reasonable damage without dropping dead 2 seconds later and I want to explore the new dungeons, that is splendid etc without having to be re'sd every 2 seconds in a party (> sniper begone).

Ok, hopefully someone can suggest a good char and a good build/ good equips, thanks for reading =)

[fluidin]

clown shld make u happy.

it's always needed once u have poem, and poem makes people happy.

u get ur debuff kick by FJ-ing, and av can kill under the right conditions now that there's bg weapons. tarot spam is fun too. it defo doesn't need crazy items too.

okayish eqs include

feather beret
wooltidals
tights?
spiritual rings, expert rings, hiding accs, etc.
some form of +stat weapon, serk guitar and bg weapon
cranial valk

pretty much all damned easy to get gear.

possible build.. hm. 120 dex 100 int 80 vit rest agi. something along these lines would b fine, especially if you're pvm. int/dex>vit>agi

[kolela]

imo, get high int for clown, it's just better. When I play sniper, I noticed significant difference between low int and high int when I spam sharp shooting. I hate hybrids on pre-renewal build so I will pick like int > vit > dex > agi

I'll warn you though, clown and dancer could be boring job. They only shoot arrows when they are solo and just do songs when you are in party.
Definitely play high priest if you want some gameplay.
The difference between good and bad equip is only making you high priest tanker or support from behind.
Wizard actually pretty fun when pvm-ing, too bad you don't want range ._.
Devo Paladin are not really gear dependant, you just need good hp + potions and stay behind.

For buff timer, you could start off buff-ing yourself then buff others using party window (with the active "lock" icon, otherwise you might screw up double click to chat 1:1 on them). Hence, your buff comes off first then you could prepare re-buff others. Practice to spam safety wall especially on MvP, good practice would be two people (usually sniper, whitesmith, or just tanker) party killing Mini MvP Valk (that drops valk shield). A really good response is needed on satan morroc map, you need to lex aeterna any monsters to 1-shot asura for standard gear champ.
Another tip, don't level your priest on anubis if you want to learn the job. You don't learn anything from them.

Standard tanker equip for high priest would be stone buckler set + wool tidal set. However, stone buckler set is heavy.
You could focus equip on more healing such as Staff of Recovery/Strong Recovery Wand/Glorious Recovery Wand, Diabolus Robe + Ring.
But my HP taste is on after cast delay reduction, sprint ring + diabolus robe/sprint set + speedy recovery wand/glorious recovery wand.
Btw, I know Diabolus is a pain to get, I just listed possible items ;p
Whatever job you picked... if you know you could wear shield, prepare proper cards.
Alice would be great help on thanatos last levels, odin 3, thor, morroc shadows.
If you couldn't afford it, get penomena for thor, anubis for odin 3, etc.
And also, get pasana (fire armor) for thor. Proper armor element would help alot.
If you still have no clue, just ask people around your server... what's good equip for specific places.

[fluidin]

he did want a semi-pvm build, that's why i recommended dex/int.

100int is quite decent. for clown being boring, until you've played it at the heart of a top woe guild u could say it's boring... but after that, no. pvm wise, i guess so 

also, since he has problems mastering sniper, which while arguably is one of the hardest classes, could also mean that hp will be problematic skill-wise. clown on the other hand is peanuts in pvm mode.

[Leamee]

Thanks for all the answers (I'm a girl IRL by the way, and can't change my profile for some reason hence the confusion)

since he has problems mastering sniper, which while arguably is one of the hardest classes, could also mean that hp will be problematic skill-wise

I think that's what happened when I made my vit-based TU priest with angelus as the other main buff skill. I totally agree with the "don't level in anubis/remover etc if you want to learn something". Partying would probably be the best option from the get-go but I don't know if I would be able to learn the buffing skills. I did learn to kill AKs and to hit-and-run to some extent and I could try to hang in there and keep practicing sniper but honestly after hundreds of hours I don't think I'll ever "get it".

I'm in this really stupid situation because I've been playing Sniper for years now, and I feel like I'll never fully master the char. Clown sounds like an SL/Snip hybrid to me, and I'd need to make a male char, so I don't know if it's really an option. Let's just say that I'm tired of arrows =)

I need a decent DD char badly to do Kiel and GH + item-hunting - I'd rather not make another lousy-played SL/Snip for that purpose.


Ok, I have a few questions that came to me after reading your answers:
* If HP = hard as a support char, should I give it a go anyway? I mean, it does sound like it's yet another hard class to master, but I'm already losing one of my favorite class (sniper) so I really wanted to make a High Priestess because I like playing them. It's a shame that the classes I enjoy playing don't seem to be easy to play 

* Would a non-EDP sin or stalker be good choices as in, easy/easier to play than HP or Sniper? I'd need a good build and probably expensive equips though, but at the rates that I'm going to play (normal drops between 80 and 300 most likely) getting all the elemental katars shouldn't be too challenging, even if getting an ice pick (esp slotted) would be quite hard. However, I'd need suggestions for non EDP builds that are decent, because I feel like balancing a Sin's stats is the hardest part of the job, even when you have a resetter at your disposal.

* Is Wizz an option when you're not a good snip? I agree with the "fun to PvM with" comment, especially in parties as you can be the mad damage-dealer and/or the crazy player who freezes everything, but I'm afraid that it'll be as hard to play as snip, if not harder. That said, yup, it's fun, and I know that you don't need a lot of equipment to play a wizz because they get energy coat and rods aren't exceptionally hard to obtain.

* What's the easiest class to play (PvM and parties, some sort of DD) out of, well, all the classes? I guess it would have to be a melee char though I might be wrong and it's probably a personal choice. Basically, if I were a complete beginner who's clueless about RO and equips and cards (which I'm not but please humor me) what class would you tell me to play? Yeah that sums it up.


Well thanks a lot for your advice, please keep the suggestions and builds coming =)

[fluidin]

ehhh... i unno :x

seems like a ctrl-click char would suit your purpose then. but u must know such chars will nvr work in high level dungeons.

1)high priestess... eh. it is quite easy to play i guess, on a basic level. going ME would probably be quite a bit difficult tho, especially if you're planning to mvp / skegg with it.

2)dont play stalky for pvm, not really worth it imo. sinx, yes. dual dag and crit is both worth it for general pvm, and limited mvping. for dd, 100-120 str 80-100 agi 40-60 vit rest dex. crit, depends. but crit guides are everywhere, so...

3)wiz.. not too easy too. i wonder what's your issue with sniper tho.. is it not being able to spam ds fast enough to lock / semi-lock mvps? or not being able to lay traps down fast enough and get away to optimal range? if it is, and your targeting/positioning has no problems, wiz might be a solution.

4)i need to know what's your problem with mastering sniper, haha. as in which aspect you're having problems with. but anw to answer your qn, if someone was clueless, i would tell them to start from snip/wiz o-o

[Leamee]

is it not being able to spam ds fast enough to lock / semi-lock mvps? or not being able to lay traps down fast enough and get away to optimal range? if it is, and your targeting/positioning has no problems, wiz might be a solution.

I don't know really. I can trap in Discastes 1 but the mobs are non-aggressive so does that even count? I can also trap in bio 2 but again I isolate the mob lay down 2 ankle snares and pray, and the wiz usually gets me.

That said I'm able to solo Kiel and Gh very comfortably (= without pots and usually without dying ridiculously fast) (build dex 99 vit 50 agi 70 int 30 or build FA+vit) which seems contradictory because I feel like I have problems with fast/ v. fast monsters because they eat me before I can lift a finger (talking about kasa, galion, gryphon here) . I play SL completely like Sniper, too, protective spells replace traps somewhat and higher dmg dealing + elements replace arrows, SP makes you want to hang yourself though.

Now, is a good sniper/archer (!) supposed to be able to solo kasas? I heard that, but honestly I doubt it. Even with full fire gear and 8K hp they still hit you hard.
I don't exactly know what locking a monster means/ how you do it, but let me hazard a guess.
Is it when you hit/ spam skill so fast that the mob doesn't move and stays in its spot? Because that's happened to me before (even with kasas to some extent) but it's not something I'm able to exploit or do voluntarily right now.

Questions: Is it a build issue? Like, if I got Sniper Suit and pasana+jakk+fire resist potion+burning bow upped and crystal arrows (gives -10% fire dmg) AND truckloads of agi and dex instead of the int and vit points, would I be able to kill kasas then? I mean, I move when they meteor and stuff, I feel like I'm half-good but they still end up eating me, and the 8K hp helps, but if you could teach me how to "lock" them, then maybe... Who knows. I don't see how you could trap that beast without eating 25K. I don't see LKs doing them without HPs (and gear and luck) so something tells me they are not to be messed with when you're melee so approaching them to trap = suicide. Plus with their mini-boss status it's really a waste of time.

MVPs: I tried to do garm once and got incredibly frustrated, a hunter was trying to give me advice but it didn't help. Stormy knight is way too fast for me and I usually just tp when I see him, I tried hitting him a few times but got frozen (no appropriate gear so that's my fault). Ditto for dracula. I could practice my locking skills on a few non-populated servers (I need an eddga or something cuddly and slow to start off, I'd love to do atroce but the galions get me)

Am I just really stupid as a snip or is there something I could change build-wise for example to get better? I'm prepared to practice on non-populated servers as I said and on lower-tier MVPs like Eddga and Lady Tanee and slower beasts in general.

Any advice is welcome, I feel like I still have much to learn as I said =)

Oh, and by the way, by high level dungeons, do you mean Kiel or GH for example? If that's a yes, I don't want to give those up, I spend a good 25% of my RO time in those two dungeons, rest in Odin/Nameless mostly with parties.

[kolela]

I couldn't answer all your questions but I could review some.
Sniper are not made solo on first place. If really they are, I've seen my friend playing sniper able to duet on new world vs those all fast monsters. He has the right timing on doing charge arrow, ankle snare, dps them to death (with double strafe). Well, I'm not that good though.
Bragi would not stack with after-cast delay reduction gears. It only picks which one has the highest bonus, your equip or friend's bragi.
So it's useless to invest on sniping suit or any similar effect if you have clown in your party.
As I said on hybrid build, I don't really see why you need that on PvM. PvM Sniper would be pure agi dex, don't really need to think any other stat. Yes, high dps sometimes can lock those enemies, that's eathena server flaw. Locking is just matter how fast you spam skills or /nc which heavily rely on your aspd. No good aspd no locking. That's it, no weird skills or anything. You just need to know when to flee or fly wing if monsters got too close and you know you are going to die.
Ehm builds... well trapper sniper is much more tolerant that you don't need extreme stats. But I wouldn't explain further about trap ;p

The principal of playing ranged class is simply don't let monsters touch you until they die. This basically just like enough skills to spam -> move -> skill -> move -> skill -> move. But don't move just randomly, I meant it's usually safe to take the move back to where you are from because you already exterminate all of those monsters before. Wizard has really good self defense, quagmire, you should use that alot when you play wizard. Gameplay was like quagmire -> move -> probably fire wall... or just do amplify -> dps skill like storm gust -> move -> if monsters still didn't die move in circle and repeat all those steps again. Quagmire strangely works on mvps.
If party are really common in your server, you should just do sharp shooting instead of FA. Sharp shooting do slightly better damage than FA, but the main point is mob controls. You only target 1 monster at a time with FA, you could target as much as you want with Sharp Shooting spam.
I bet you are having hard time with dracula because of agi up, his flee would triple if he cast that. You would need someone to dispell.
A good practice would be atroce, you just need to stay away but sometimes his defender is a b**** to deal with, that's why you also need dispell.

A simple way to learn HP, party with two people only first on easy - medium areas according your gameplay.
Then slowly add one to party, then add another, add again party member until you get used to with big numbers.
Then you could practice on small party members in high end dungeons.
Try to keep up their buff all time and which skill to prioritize, it sometimes silly to do resurrection one per 2 seconds as they take turn.
And if I am relatively new on dungeon, I usually said "Please tell me what to do. If you need buff or anything just yell at me. That's fine."
my own opinion... Support Priest is harder than ME Priest.

PvM Champ or should I say MvP Champ is not complicated job, you just need to asura the target correctly as soon as it got lex aeterna and stay away from dragging more mobs. The pain is gathering all champ gears. Hence, they farm mindlessly at sleeper.
Champ life time was like level -> farm for sleeper killing gear or "insert good monster here"-> farm sleeper until get mvp gears -> farm mvp.
Try to look the correct names from far away when targeting.
I've seen my nerd friend farming AK with asura, he open 2 -3 clients, do bragi, soul change himself, buff for asura, open geffenia portal, go in, look for and asura AK, butterfly wing, repeat.

Why you really need pasana on thor?
Monsters has skills called level ?? "put element here" skill. In this case, Kasa has level 10 Fire Breath. That means sometimes he deals you 10x normal attack with fire attributive. His normal attack is 3 k raw damage. That skill would pull you 30 k raw fire elemental damage.
Now with fire armor, you would reduce that to (fire does 25% damage to fire 1 element) 1/4 * 30 k = 7.5 k raw damage.
These kinds of damage would absurdly common on high end dungeon, and you sometimes need to correct armor element to absurdly reduce it too.
Anyway, Thor is much more party wise instead of single action player. E.g. you should have a good respond priest, know when to pneuma to avoid kasa's spiral pierce. Can anyone solo at thor? Yes, but it wouldn't be cost effective, though I am sure he could level really fast in a short of time.

Pure farming... I would ask question, is ice pick easy to get? If they are, you might consider whitesmith.
Is dual client allowed too? You could practice to do dual players too. There's another friend of me, play solo high priest and sniper at the same time. And comes to town to chat if he got bored >_>
Hmm, probably spiral LK, if you got correct equip (I haven't played for a while so I am not sure what's good equip) + aspersio, you could one shot succubus, incubus and two-three shots AK.
And also, if alchemist are chasing after rank, witched starsand from demon pungus might be good to farm, you may need medusa card + ME priest.

[Leamee]

I'm going to edit my answer later because I have to go to my semester's finals.
I haven't picked a server yet but ice pick would be hard-ish to get since it'd be a mid-rate or high-rate with low drop rates (100-300) and not necessarily a lot of people since I can't find a good-populated serv that fits my needs.
In any case, thanks a lot for your answer.

I tried thor yesterday (fingers still hurting!) and I'm starting to understand that this is hardly a solo place. That said it helped me improve my hit-and-run skills and I did kill some kasas without getting eaten first even if I can't do that for a long time. If I get my dream bow (+10 compo xpeco xvado x2AKs) and endow water with a box and do 7K on them with a buffer (lots of if's) I'll try it again, but again bringing a priest would make things so much easier because of the 7.5K dmg versus 15K dmg with lex.
For some reason I didn't get charge arrow on my snip and that might be part of the problem but as it doesn't work on mini bosses it doesn't do much for the kasa issue. As for your friend, well there are crazily good players out there who have an excellent action-per-minute rate so yeah. Just watch some koreans on youtube.

However, like you I don't think I could do that, and I'm mainly afraid of Atroce's minions, being mobbed by mini-bosses (even the "smaller" ones" is never nice. I guess I should practice killing galion first as I now have more flee so it might work.

As for kasas, I've practiced some more yesterday and almost always avoid his 30K hit. It's really a matter of running. However the 4K hit (3K hit, depends) I can eat it once and also found that running like crazy helps, meteor isn't really an issue, I don't even know if it hurts that much. Anyway gotta go, be back later =)

[kolela]

There is strategy to reduce their minions if you are solo. You could leave 1 gallions alive and atroce won't summon another one unless all died. Look up monster database on atroce that said "When: - Slave amount <= 0 (100% chance)"

[Leamee]

You could leave 1 gallions alive and atroce won't summon another one unless all died. Look up monster database on atroce that said "When: - Slave amount <= 0 (100% chance)"

kolela you are really really bad

I need a tie-breaker guys.
The only thing I know is that in order to efficiently and painlessly kill AKs as an SL or Sniper (SL is the best job out of the two to kill them if I'm honest as SL has protective skills against the minions' grims) you need to kill one khalitzburg and let the other one live. If you kill both, they come back and given their HP/ grim you'll most likely be taking all the damage from them, not the AK who can't do jack against a somewhat decent ranged class player (seriously even *I* can hit-and-run an AK).

I don't know if you can look that kind of stuff up on a database though. I searched AK and it also says
   When:
- Slave amount <= 0 (100% chance)

It looks like kolela is right *if* an AK works like an Atroce. It might also be a server-specific thing or a preference - 3 galions eating your donkey + their minions isn't a pretty sight, so I'd like to think that killing 2 and then leaving the third one in peace would help, but I need confirmation. However, wasting time killing all the minions just to kill them all over again would be stupid but I'm pretty sure I've seen people do that when they're interested in the *minions'* drops for some reason. I personally don't want or need an unlimited access to khalitzburgs


Posted on: Jan 10, 2011, 05:50 amGuys please don't start a war, I appreciate the fact that you both gave me really good advice. =)
I'm even going to download RMS test server just so that I know who's right when it comes to Atroce's minions. That said, my money's on you, kolela, just because AKs work that way.
I'm sure you're both very good players because I love datme's thor equip build as it's simple and clean so yes, Thank You!

[fluidin]

mmm... the way i play aks would just be to gear myself up optimally to be able to kill aks as fast as possible, then just ds spam it to death. fwing if too close/dangerous, rinse and repeat.

yeah, u need a somewhat decent apm, although it should be easier (ds is a one-button-mash thing). wait till you have to play stuff like prof/champ in woe. try to hit about 3 ds / sec i guess.

the way i've been playing ro is firstly to look up the most effective way to go about something, then to make specific chars for those specific jobs, and then master that specific strategy (snip for gloom, champ for samspec, tkm for DG, etc.) it works, but that might not be your style.

im not too sure for ak farming tho. i know lk can do it pretty effectively too, but ive always done it as snip. and if u play on servers with healers, the easiest way would be to use a champ; asura, healer, warp portal back, tp arnd, asura, rinse and repeat.


ehh.. to answer ur questions:

-yes, it is quite possible to hitlock kasas on ea servers.
-pvm snipers should be 99dex 99 agi 25int/vit
-mvps.. there are some mvps that are better suited for snipers, like gopinich for the easier ones. try doing those 1st.

[Leamee]

Thanks for your answer!
However, I didn't get all the abbreviations

snip for gloom, champ for samspec, tkm for DG, etc.

gloom must be gloom under night but I don't know about samspec or DG. Sorry as I said I'm pretty lousy =)

I don't know about my APM, I don't think I DS 3 times/ sec though but I tend to have a pretty chilled-out approach so I don't really time myself or anything, that said I practiced quite a lot on RMS test serv yesterday and practice makes perfect.

the way i've been playing ro is firstly to look up the most effective way to go about something, then to make specific chars for those specific jobs, and then master that specific strategy

I usually do that too tbh, however for MVP-ing I haven't found a good guide yet, even if some youtube videos are somewhat helpful. I've been meaning to practice BM forever as I think that bashing a letter key would be easier than bashing F1 (just because letter keys are bigger and more accessible esp on a laptop) but for now I'm more focused on my APM and hit-and-run skills, I don't want to give up on Snipers just yet I guess because I can see some improvement.

if u play on servers with healers, the easiest way would be to use a champ; asura, healer, warp portal back, tp arnd, asura, rinse and repeat.

That's a very good suggestion but I hate having to tp back to town, plus I love killing raydrics so I really don't mind taking a stroll instead of TP-ing like crazy.

-yes, it is quite possible to hitlock kasas on ea servers.
-pvm snipers should be 99dex 99 agi 25int/vit
-mvps.. there are some mvps that are better suited for snipers, like gopinich for the easier ones. try doing those 1st.

Thank you so much for the suggestions, I'll try that stuff out on RMS test server. Hopefully I can get easy access to the boss map. I'll probably do something like eddga > garm > gonipich > stormy then if I'm feeling it atroce.
At least I can give myself a double AK bow + whatever cards would help most with the MVP =)


Edit bis: Gee, I can now chain 5 kasas till I run out of SP without getting eaten and without pots. I might have been lucky but I was in the real dungeon playing normally. All I can say is Thanks Guys. The DS-locking comment especially helped. This is going to be so cool because I can now kill them for their drops, I'm really looking forward to finding a good serv now =)