"RMT Enabled" servers.

[Felione]

I'm not very familiar with RMT, or how to find a site where such transactions take place, safely most importantly, but being involved in the black market world (due to an ambitious ex-boyfriend), I can see this become VERY profitable to server owners.

If you look at this closely, it is an easy pay-for-your-gear-and-cards scenario, provided by a GM directly. I understand that players will have the ability to potentially sell a card or an armor upgrade, but a GM can definitely make a more enticing product, one you can directly ask for in terms of preference. This is such an opportunistic window, and I'm sure this is the new standard. As they say, if you can't beat them, join them.

This is of course just an assumption, but seeing as RMT is apparently profitable, and more servers are pushing for P2W, this is a great alternative to that, and one with a definite high value prospect to it. I'm sure mvp cards will go for hundreds of dollars each, which is a fantastic proposition for a private server owner, and knowing the correct avenues of these sites and their communities, can directly benefit a server owner.

So, what do you think about this concept? and do you think server owners would or do already use these types of services to sell items to players? and why would they not, if it's all just for profit?

[Orange]

Player to player RMT happens on every single server, at least every one with >100 online.

I quite like the system itself if you look at it on its own, ClashRO(Recently closed server) had RMT tickets where the server owner would keep 10% when you cashed out. There are other games that have enabled RMT in some form(Diablo has done it, its the whole concept behind crypto/NFT games, trading card games and other MMO's)

The best example, while not classic "player to player" RMT I think is Magic the Gathering Online, an actual card game that has a nearly 1:1 online version. You still have to buy booster packs to get cards, you can still trade cards between eachother but "tix" can be purchased for 1 USD from wizards of the coast. They can never be turned back into real money but the economy is large enough to support people always buying them. They get used for event entry which pays out booster packs and such. I would much rather spend $1,000 on MTGO than $100 on Magic Arena(their more recent, functions like hearthstone no player to player stuff client)

Many problems arise when its a small private server, not backed by anything other than "some guy" - Everyone is vulnerable to a "rug pull", once enough $ are in circulation the server owner can just disappear and not honor paying out any of the RMT tickets that people purchased with the deal being that they get ingame items or 90% of their money back at some point. Someone can put $1000 into MTGO and as long as a multi-billion dollar company doesn't randomly shut down a game making them millions of dollars they can almost surely recoup 70-80% of that, someone putting $1000 into a private server is relying entirely on some guys honesty.

It also attracts the "underground" players - For starters servers with this have MORE player to player RMT because the server has more people willing to pay and they have a set price they just need to undercut a little. There is simply more cash floating around, there is a greater incentive to scam, exploit and cheat. Although I love the system I would not recommend server owners do it and don't recommend people to play on servers with it. You can run into legal issues, more scams on the server can get eyes on your server, more so you run into payment processor issues - Lots of chargebacks is the main culprit but the end result is the server owners paypal or actual bank account might get locked down and at that stage they're probably just closing the server instead of dealing with it all.

Doing all that doesn't make your server immune from classic GM corruption or shady RMT anyway, I would never trust "Admin Poring" and noone will attach their real name with a real reputation to a server because of the above, if a server like this started making actual money one day Gravity would come have a look and oh boy is that not a fun time.

tl;dr good concept, impossible to execute well, basically dealing with problems that come with running an unregulated casino just to host a server.

[NimbleStorm]

Your observations touch on a controversial and complex aspect of server owners, particularly within private server communities. The concept you describe, where server owners might directly involve themselves in RMT to generate additional revenue, does pose several ethical and practical considerations. This has become more apparent lately with servers coming out with such systems. There currently is a Brazilian server being this prime example.

1. Profit Motive:
Understandably, server owners may be tempted by the potential financial gains associated with RMT. Selling exclusive items or services directly to players could be seen as a quick way to boost income and support server maintenance costs.

2. Player Trust:
However, such a practice can erode player trust in the long run. Players often join private servers seeking a fair and balanced gaming experience. If they perceive that certain players or groups have an advantage through direct transactions with server owners, it may lead to dissatisfaction and a decline in the player base.

3. Community Dynamics:
Player-driven economies, where items are obtained through in-game effort, contribute to the dynamic nature of the game. Introducing a direct RMT model may disrupt these dynamics, potentially leading to imbalances and dissatisfaction among players.

4. Legal and Ethical Concerns:
Participating in or endorsing RMT can bring about legal and ethical challenges. Many gaming companies and developers explicitly prohibit real money transactions within their games. Engaging in RMT could attract unwanted attention from legal authorities or the original game developers.

5. Long-Term Viability:
While the short-term financial gains might seem attractive, the long-term viability of a server built on RMT may be questionable. Players often appreciate fair competition and earning their items through in-game achievements. A server heavily reliant on RMT may struggle to maintain player interest and loyalty.

In conclusion, the concept you've outlined is indeed intriguing, but it comes with substantial risks and potentially negative consequences for the community and the server's integrity. Most successful private servers prioritize fairness, transparency, and a balanced gameplay experience to build a thriving and loyal player base.

Ultimately, the decision to engage in RMT rests on the server owner's values, commitment to ethical practices, and long-term vision for the community. The gaming landscape is evolving, and finding the right balance between sustainability and player satisfaction remains a challenging yet critical task.

However, let's consider other possible scenarios:

Benefits of a Refined System:
A well-implemented RMT system, under the right conditions, might offer players the opportunity to engage in mutually beneficial transactions. Players could potentially buy, sell, or trade items in a regulated environment, fostering a dynamic in-game economy while maintaining fairness and balance.

Potential Features:
Controlled RMT channels with strict guidelines.
Direct support for player transactions, reducing reliance on third-party platforms.
Transparency in transactions, ensuring fair pricing and player protection.

Considerations and Caution:
It's crucial to approach this concept with caution, ensuring that the server's integrity remains intact. Striking the right balance between a vibrant player-driven economy and maintaining fair competition is essential for long-term success for any RO server.

[Sairek Ceareste]

Most games who have a sort of RMT thing going on tend to make it "legal" by just allowing the purchase of items with "premium currency", but allowing that premium currency to be exchanged to other players. The MMORPG "Blade & Soul" for example does this. There's even an outright auction house system for it last time I checked.

This obviously makes the system P2W, but it does have the benefit of largely getting rid of the 'black market' problem. And if anything history has taught us, when you tell people not to do something or that they can't, people will just want to do it.
Either way, this is basically RMT with just an extra step. You buy premium currency for $, and then can sell that currency to other players for zeny. Rinse and repeat until you have enough zeny to buy whatever you want. The only difference is that the server largely gets the money, so for people who are looking to buy, they don't really care, where as people who are trying to make a profit, will need to undercharge what the server offers, making it less profitable most of the time.

[ForgotMyOldAccount]

Snip

Are you writing this with chat gpt? Is this a bot or something?

[Metan]

Are you writing this with chat gpt? Is this a bot or something?

You're onto something. I skimmed through the first paragraph of his post in another thread, about NovaRO, and it read like a statement written by a PR team of a multinational company. Only an AI would write like this, in a place you're not supposed to, without dying of self-inflicted boredom.

As for the topic, I don't think this game's resources are balanced enough to allow that sort of economy. Most important, allowing a premium currency:game currency exchange does not extinguish RMT in any way. If you've played any other MMO where this is enabled (most recent and glaring example is Lost Ark), then you know how prevalent it is in spite of that kind of shop. So no, it wouldn't really help against RMT.

[Orange]

This is anecdotal and covered a bit in my first reply but I feel theres more rmt when a game has a system for it or the game is p2w.

The psychology effect makes sense to me, I don't drink much soda these days but if someone was selling some for 1/3 price id probably buy. Im not going to buy the $20 power boost but it existing makes buying the shady bigger power boost for $10 more tempting

Pretty sure runescape has the most active rmt scene and you can directly buy bonds and sell for gold legally(big part of that is the games so bottable tho)

[VanishVelvet]

An RMT server is essentially a pay-to-win server. Therefore, those who dislike pay-to-win servers should generally steer clear of this type of server.

Essentially, individuals with financial resources can obtain powerful items or advantages without necessarily earning them through in-game achievements or efforts.

The only reason some servers like this thrive initially is that there are many players interested in making money, only to be disappointed later due to the lack of demand.

Of course, it might work if there are many players on the said server and the supply and demand is pretty balance, but that's not the case for most private servers. The only reason RMT players make money is that, in most decent servers, it's illegal, and those who engage in it are few in number, meaning the supply is very low.

Take that other RO, for example. Why did it fail? Simply because the majority of their players initially became interested in earning something there, only to be disappointed later because there's barely any demand.

[Sairek Ceareste]

You're onto something. I skimmed through the first paragraph of his post in another thread, about NovaRO, and it read like a statement written by a PR team of a multinational company. Only an AI would write like this, in a place you're not supposed to, without dying of self-inflicted boredom.

As for the topic, I don't think this game's resources are balanced enough to allow that sort of economy. Most important, allowing a premium currency:game currency exchange does not extinguish RMT in any way. If you've played any other MMO where this is enabled (most recent and glaring example is Lost Ark), then you know how prevalent it is in spite of that kind of shop. So no, it wouldn't really help against RMT.

Like I said, it doesn't necessarily stop it completely, but it devalues it and makes it less profitable.

If an RMTer is selling say, 5 million zeny for $50, and you can make that much from just spending $15 from the server and selling the premium currency to make that 5 million zeny, why would you ever go for the $50 option that also carries the risk of the deal going wrong when you can just take the "legal" $15 option? Even without a direct exchange, the system still works even if the server just has purchasable cosmetics and you just sell those. People *will* usually buy them unless the cosmetics are ugly as sin (and even then some people like "ugly" cosmetics for some reason). More so if there's premium items that actually yield gameplay benefits.

As if RO is a proper environment or not, I suppose that's debatable. On RO:Restart, people would buy premium currency just to sell for a bunch of zeny, but there was obviously a lot of RMT because there was literally thousands, upon thousands, upon thousands of bots on literally every single possible map. Some of them weren't even gold sellers; just people who deployed their own bots to level for them. So obviously it's not a perfect solution, because again, people will take the path of least resistance, and if cheating is even easier than just swiping your credit card and selling stuff, and it's free to boot, then... ...

[ForgotMyOldAccount]

I actually think it's quite crazy the negative connotation black market RMT gets considering that the majority of low-rate servers wouldn't even exist without it. Players are lazy and adults now and a lot don't have time to grind anymore and would rather trade irl time for in-game time.

Also there is essentially no difference in a player farming something and an RMTer farming something, the impact on the economy is the same. You can argue that players shouldn't get an "unfair" advantage and should have to farm things themselves but why do people not outright ban trading at all then? I once got gifted hundreds of millions of zeny from a quitting player for free and this is somehow considered ethical while buying it with real money is not. Same goes with art sales and transactions... I've seen so many servers allow people to trade art for zeny then turn around and heavily condemn RMT. Where is the line?

The issue in my opinion is when bots get involved, an RMTer without bots is just a normal player, their farming patterns are the same as a normal farmer only they sell their items for profit. Bots are a completely different story. They are so efficient that they can completely destroy an economy by pumping it full of zeny and items at a rate that a normal player/RMTer could never complete with.

[NimbleStorm]

Are you writing this with chat gpt? Is this a bot or something?

I had to ask ChatGPT what chat gpt was, and let me tell you, the answer is quite evident. No, I am not a bot, lol. I guess I just come across as AI-like when I dive deep into the wonderful mind God created me with? If I was reading my replies, I'd suspect them as being AI-generated as well...

Anyhow, back onto the topic again,  in simpler terms, I agree that the line between player trading and real-money trading can be blurry, and the impact on the game's economy depends on various factors. Bots (old news) as you have mentioned, especially, can in fact cause significant issues by flooding the game with resources. It's essential for game developers and communities to find a balance that ensures fairness overall.

It seems like a lot of you disagree with RMT, and I agree that it can have negative consequences, especially when it comes to bypassing the effort and achievements that players gain through organic gameplay. It's important to foster a gaming environment where players are rewarded for their dedication and skill rather than the ability to spend real money.

But then again, combating real-money trading can be tricky and challenging. It often involves players using external platforms or services beyond the control of developers. Enforcement becomes difficult, and it's hard to pinpoint and regulate every instance. Despite these challenges, many game developers implement measures to discourage and penalize RMT, aiming to maintain a fair and enjoyable experience for the majority of players. While it may not be possible to eliminate it, efforts to deter and mitigate the impact of RMT can still contribute to a healthier in-game environment, with this discussion in mind, it makes me wonder if an actual proper system can be created and put in place someday, perhaps to ultimately prevent RMTing in general, or make it available to all as a fair system, simply put. It's a complicated subject, and not worth arguing over as mentioned, people can still choose to RMT, if they desire.

[Zulf]

Are you writing this with chat gpt? Is this a bot or something?

The issue is: lexical density.

[Metan]

Like I said, it doesn't necessarily stop it completely, but it devalues it and makes it less profitable.

If an RMTer is selling say, 5 million zeny for $50, and you can make that much from just spending $15 from the server and selling the premium currency to make that 5 million zeny, why would you ever go for the $50 option that also carries the risk of the deal going wrong when you can just take the "legal" $15 option? Even without a direct exchange, the system still works even if the server just has purchasable cosmetics and you just sell those. People *will* usually buy them unless the cosmetics are ugly as sin (and even then some people like "ugly" cosmetics for some reason). More so if there's premium items that actually yield gameplay benefits.

As if RO is a proper environment or not, I suppose that's debatable. On RO:Restart, people would buy premium currency just to sell for a bunch of zeny, but there was obviously a lot of RMT because there was literally thousands, upon thousands, upon thousands of bots on literally every single possible map. Some of them weren't even gold sellers; just people who deployed their own bots to level for them. So obviously it's not a perfect solution, because again, people will take the path of least resistance, and if cheating is even easier than just swiping your credit card and selling stuff, and it's free to boot, then... ...

No, it's the other way around! Nobody would bother with RMT in such games if they had to pay more for it, and the illegality of it and its possible consequences on top. Now, official conversion often has a little tax to it, and this value just gets sent to oblivion as some sort of deflation mechanic; 5% seems to be the common value among games. RMTers allure buyers by cutting the official rates, and you get the full value. This is a diagnosis that, unfortunately, applies to a lot of MMOs out there, both old and new. In the end, all that official RMTing does is establish a price cap.
As a parallel, it's like when people argue that legalized drugs would kill drug trafficking, as if tax evasion isn't a thing. It's the same principle. (You could add some extra nuance to the drug example, like "hey, our stuff's much stronger," but it would be beside the point.)

Botting is one of the issues with making any server where RMT is allowed. You'd be painting a huge red target onto your server: a sufficiently large enough gathering of people who are okay with spending real money on game currency. Any half-witted botter would look at such server and think "jackpot."

I actually think it's quite crazy the negative connotation black market RMT gets considering that the majority of low-rate servers wouldn't even exist without it. Players are lazy and adults now and a lot don't have time to grind anymore and would rather trade irl time for in-game time.

Also there is essentially no difference in a player farming something and an RMTer farming something, the impact on the economy is the same. You can argue that players shouldn't get an "unfair" advantage and should have to farm things themselves but why do people not outright ban trading at all then? I once got gifted hundreds of millions of zeny from a quitting player for free and this is somehow considered ethical while buying it with real money is not. Same goes with art sales and transactions... I've seen so many servers allow people to trade art for zeny then turn around and heavily condemn RMT. Where is the line?

The issue in my opinion is when bots get involved, an RMTer without bots is just a normal player, their farming patterns are the same as a normal farmer only they sell their items for profit. Bots are a completely different story. They are so efficient that they can completely destroy an economy by pumping it full of zeny and items at a rate that a normal player/RMTer could never complete with.

And this is where I disagree. There is a world of difference between a player and a RMTer farming things: the former is doing it for his guild, for a friend, for himself, with the objective of having fun somehow, whether immediately upon dropping/buying a desired item, or later on as he puts it to good use in game, dunking some insufferable nerd in PvP, I don't know; the latter does it for money, or perhaps it's his only income, thus efficiency, greed and perhaps the fear of living in poverty (if he's having it rough in a third-world country; and this generally happens to be the case) runs in his blood and rules over his behavior. One will lose a big MVP kill, likely be upset about it, but move on with his life; the other will slam his table because he just lost some good money. These are not, nor will ever be, the same, and the level of toxicity the latter kind of player brings is telling.

[ForgotMyOldAccount]

No, it's the other way around! Nobody would bother with RMT in such games if they had to pay more for it, and the illegality of it and its possible consequences on top. Now, official conversion often has a little tax to it, and this value just gets sent to oblivion as some sort of deflation mechanic; 5% seems to be the common value among games. RMTers allure buyers by cutting the official rates, and you get the full value. This is a diagnosis that, unfortunately, applies to a lot of MMOs out there, both old and new. In the end, all that official RMTing does is establish a price cap.
As a parallel, it's like when people argue that legalized drugs would kill drug trafficking, as if tax evasion isn't a thing. It's the same principle. (You could add some extra nuance to the drug example, like "hey, our stuff's much stronger," but it would be beside the point.)

Botting is one of the issues with making any server where RMT is allowed. You'd be painting a huge red target onto your server: a sufficiently large enough gathering of people who are okay with spending real money on game currency. Any half-witted botter would look at such server and think "jackpot."
And this is where I disagree. There is a world of difference between a player and a RMTer farming things: the former is doing it for his guild, for a friend, for himself, with the objective of having fun somehow, whether immediately upon dropping/buying a desired item, or later on as he puts it to good use in game, dunking some insufferable nerd in PvP, I don't know; the latter does it for money, or perhaps it's his only income, thus efficiency, greed and perhaps the fear of living in poverty (if he's having it rough in a third-world country; and this generally happens to be the case) runs in his blood and rules over his behavior. One will lose a big MVP kill, likely be upset about it, but move on with his life; the other will slam his table because he just lost some good money. These are not, nor will ever be, the same, and the level of toxicity the latter kind of player brings is telling.

If you think normal players doing this "for fun" instead of money aren't getting incredibly toxic and salty in-game, you are frankly just wrong. I know many annoying and disgruntled players who get upset over losing with NO IRL stakes involved. You seriously overvalue the mental health of gamers who turn to Ragnarok Online for an outlet from their rather stressful lives.

[Sairek Ceareste]

I actually think it's quite crazy the negative connotation black market RMT gets considering that the majority of low-rate servers wouldn't even exist without it. Players are lazy and adults now and a lot don't have time to grind anymore and would rather trade irl time for in-game time.

Also there is essentially no difference in a player farming something and an RMTer farming something, the impact on the economy is the same. You can argue that players shouldn't get an "unfair" advantage and should have to farm things themselves but why do people not outright ban trading at all then? I once got gifted hundreds of millions of zeny from a quitting player for free and this is somehow considered ethical while buying it with real money is not. Same goes with art sales and transactions... I've seen so many servers allow people to trade art for zeny then turn around and heavily condemn RMT. Where is the line?

The issue in my opinion is when bots get involved, an RMTer without bots is just a normal player, their farming patterns are the same as a normal farmer only they sell their items for profit. Bots are a completely different story. They are so efficient that they can completely destroy an economy by pumping it full of zeny and items at a rate that a normal player/RMTer could never complete with.

Usually the people who are doing RMT are botting as well, which can impact the market. This is definitely so when it comes to larger scale games like actual big-name MMOs such as Runescape as was mentioned previously.