Eyo, I've been thinking of giving malcontent players something new besides the old jail and ban methods.
Some systems I've planned on making are one where if a player is caught sexually harrassing a player or throwing F-bombs all over the place make an NPC that asks for their account ID, and it will create a permenant feature (or when you ask the NPC to turn it off or for a certain) to fakename them with "I'm a pervert =D", "potty mouth" or something stupid and also allow other players to be able to kill them outside of PvP/WoE maps. Also ever time they log on for somewhat of extra humiliation have a announcement every time they log on "so and so, the idiot has logged on!". I might include some occasional @dropall timer onto the player.
Also for jail, in the jail cells all over the floor have ankle traps spawned all over the floor while in the four corners have some kind of uber buffed parasites kill and res them over and over. As well as outside the jail Bascilia spawns for people if they want to spectate.
And making some @autonuke command (I'd have to do some research for this, I'm not great at making commands yet Q_Q) where one tap on the enter key and no matter where they go (unless they log off of course) constantly nuke and res the s*** out of them until you enter the command again to turn it off, annoying as hell and laggy yes, but hey, some players are annoying enough to deserve it I suppose.
These are just rough ideas I've thought up of, they most likely have room for improvement, and hell, I can see them as uber abusive, but hey, what hasn't been anyway ;).
Feedback would be nice for these lame, crackpot ideas of mine o_O.
lol i had a friend (who owns a server) but he was planning on making it so when ever someone swears in public chat that they'd automatically be @nuked
he never did get around to codding it in lol....
as for most of ur ideas they seem good and have good promise to them just they might be easily abused >.<
Those are the things that a corrupt GM would do :X I consider that abuse of power x.x
i like the fakename idea and the 'hall of shame' would be funny too XD
as for dropall, and the autonuke and stuff, its not really a good idea.
Quote from: Mewi on Apr 19, 2008, 08:34 AM
Those are the things that a corrupt GM would do :X I consider that abuse of power x.x
I loled, lets hope it doesn't get in the wrong hands than XD! *laughs maniacally* (am I reassuring you yet?)
And thanks dook for your opinions, I guess autonuke does have it's consequenses >.<, and I dunno, I just thought the jail needed some sprucing up.
if you make jail too fun people might be bad just to see it :D
Seems like those will really teach the crazy people a lesson. Seems hard to script though :<
oh wait i have Q (question)
about the npc that does the punishment with the name thing and bla bla bla
would that npc be usable by players or GM's only?
Public humiliation as a punisment? Very risky.
Quote from: dook on Apr 19, 2008, 07:18 PM
if you make jail too fun people might be bad just to see it :D
Okay, that made me laugh alot, but that would be so tempting to see xD.
Quote from: Untitled on Apr 20, 2008, 11:00 AM
Seems like those will really teach the crazy people a lesson. Seems hard to script though :<
Mm, not that hard, it'll just take a bit.
Quote from: JJJ on Apr 20, 2008, 01:00 PM
oh wait i have Q (question)
about the npc that does the punishment with the name thing and bla bla bla
would that npc be usable by players or GM's only?
Well, GMs :S, or if GMs are not that trustworthy I could prolly make it to recognize the owners character name or include another "trusting" staff so if a GM that doesn't have the right name than it would tell them you cannot use the NPC, or something like that.
Quote from: Anti-Static Foam Cleaner on Apr 20, 2008, 01:27 PM
Public humiliation as a punisment? Very risky.
Why not? Usually people who are racist, sexist, w.e are most of the time cowards, so, why not show them in front of the whole population to deal with instead of being secluded in a jail or shunned away from the server for another to deal with? Is that too strange of an idea? @_@
Quote from: MrrgleCaek on Apr 20, 2008, 02:13 PMWhy not? Usually people who are racist, sexist, w.e are most of the time cowards, so, why not show them in front of the whole population to deal with instead of being secluded in a jail or shunned away from the server for another to deal with? Is that too strange of an idea? @_@
There's a reason why we don't do that IRL. Though I can't really think of any good one right now.
Quote from: Anti-Static Foam Cleaner on Apr 20, 2008, 03:06 PM
Quote from: MrrgleCaek on Apr 20, 2008, 02:13 PMWhy not? Usually people who are racist, sexist, w.e are most of the time cowards, so, why not show them in front of the whole population to deal with instead of being secluded in a jail or shunned away from the server for another to deal with? Is that too strange of an idea? @_@
There's a reason why we don't do that IRL. Though I can't really think of any good one right now.
Isn't that called Human Rights in rl? What you're talking about o_o
Quote from: MrrgleCaek on Apr 20, 2008, 04:52 PM
Quote from: Anti-Static Foam Cleaner on Apr 20, 2008, 03:06 PM
Quote from: MrrgleCaek on Apr 20, 2008, 02:13 PMWhy not? Usually people who are racist, sexist, w.e are most of the time cowards, so, why not show them in front of the whole population to deal with instead of being secluded in a jail or shunned away from the server for another to deal with? Is that too strange of an idea? @_@
There's a reason why we don't do that IRL. Though I can't really think of any good one right now.
Isn't that called Human Rights in rl? What you're talking about o_o
Just note that two wrongs do not make a right. To make fun of someone would be harassment even if the person targeted began the conflict first. A GM making fun of someone would not only sound unprofessional but it would be violating basic GM code and probably that servers rules as well.
To publicly embarrass a player intentionally for that purpose is not an honorable method of punishment, it not only makes yourself look bad, but can easily label you as corrupt. I cannot tell you how many times I have seen corrupt GMs do that.
Being a GM is not about revenge, it is about justice.
Normal means of punishment is all you need for any situation. Even criminals have rights in the real world.
Quote from: Mewi on Apr 21, 2008, 04:18 PM
Quote from: MrrgleCaek on Apr 20, 2008, 04:52 PM
Quote from: Anti-Static Foam Cleaner on Apr 20, 2008, 03:06 PM
Quote from: MrrgleCaek on Apr 20, 2008, 02:13 PMWhy not? Usually people who are racist, sexist, w.e are most of the time cowards, so, why not show them in front of the whole population to deal with instead of being secluded in a jail or shunned away from the server for another to deal with? Is that too strange of an idea? @_@
There's a reason why we don't do that IRL. Though I can't really think of any good one right now.
Isn't that called Human Rights in rl? What you're talking about o_o
Just note that two wrongs do not make a right. To make fun of someone would be harassment even if the person targeted began the conflict first. A GM making fun of someone would not only sound unprofessional but it would be violating basic GM code and probably that servers rules as well.
To publicly embarrass a player intentionally for that purpose is not an honorable method of punishment, it not only makes yourself look bad, but can easily label you as corrupt. I cannot tell you how many times I have seen corrupt GMs do that.
Being a GM is not about revenge, it is about justice.
Normal means of punishment is all you need for any situation. Even criminals have rights in the real world.
This was about revenge on my part? o_o;
I thought it was just for fun =v, oh well, silly me. How many more things do corrupt GMs do? And...I can't comprehend about being serious for a private server and this whole "GM code" thing unless I missed a manual for knowing the GM code =v. People seem to use the word Corrupt alot nowadays *scratches chin*.
But alas, some seem to disapprove of me being cynical....I must be looking so terrible as a GM right now XD!
what about people who KOS others they should get punished to Dx
Stop being daft, MrrgleCaek. People will call you corrupt if you beat them in WoE, what do you think will happen if you start calling them idiots on global? Besides, bans can be appealed to and removed, but you won't take back what you said.
I won't go into "human rights" because they're pretty f*** as it is, it's your call whether to use them or not. Just think of the consequences of what the masses will think.
It really depends on the kind of server you have.
I could sort of see this working on some PK high rate, but highly unlikely on a serious low rate for reasons others have already mentioned.
Quote from: Anti-Static Foam Cleaner on Apr 22, 2008, 03:22 AM
Stop being daft, MrrgleCaek. People will call you corrupt if you beat them in WoE, what do you think will happen if you start calling them idiots on global? Besides, bans can be appealed to and removed, but you won't take back what you said.
I won't go into "human rights" because they're pretty f*** as it is, it's your call whether to use them or not. Just think of the consequences of what the masses will think.
Oh, if that's what you meant in being "risky" than pff, the whole thing with players and the corruption fad can be easily done with bans and such, they usually after their tantrum go emo and log off anyway *rolls eyes*. Jeez, I was just trying to have some sadistic humor with having to deal with those kind of players ;-;. And yes, I think by seeing the replies of this post has shown me what the masses may think xD. Although, thinking about it, I do see your point, how something like this can cause quite a ruckus...may cause quite a few headaches in the end ~~;.
Er...what's wrong with me not taking back what I said? And it's hard for me to take games as a whole so seriously...
Quote from: Pandora on Apr 22, 2008, 09:03 AM
It really depends on the kind of server you have.
I could sort of see this working on some PK high rate, but not highly unlikely on a serious low rate for reasons others have already mentioned.
Good point o_o.
Thanks for your opinions to anyone who's replied on this.
Highly unprofessional...
Yet hilarious.
I like the ideas to a degree, but I do recognize that these tactics shouldn't be used in any server that is serious. The nuking ideas were the worst. It may bother other players. The other ideas were somewhat sound, but there's a large margin for abuse. It's also possible that your ideas will simply provoke more issues, cause more drama, and drag things out. Not only that, but people may find it "fun."
Better to just ban, block, and jail troublesome users, I think, though there's nothing wrong with a bit of public humiliation in the right circumstances.
Quote from: Tears of Blood on Apr 22, 2008, 08:26 PM
Highly unprofessional...
Yet hilarious.
I like the ideas to a degree, but I do recognize that these tactics shouldn't be used in any server that is serious. The nuking ideas were the worst. It may bother other players. The other ideas were somewhat sound, but there's a large margin for abuse. It's also possible that your ideas will simply provoke more issues, cause more drama, and drag things out. Not only that, but people may find it "fun."
Better to just ban, block, and jail troublesome users, I think, though there's nothing wrong with a bit of public humiliation in the right circumstances.
Thanks alot for your opinion o_o;, unfortunatly (I guess) I've been focusing on other things to work on now (besides punishments x3). Yeah, I'll have to admit the nuking thing was not conjured by the brightest side of my mind Q_Q, and glad you found the decent ones humourous.
But alas...it seems not many would accept such a frankenstein of a feature.
I wouldn't, either. I was simply saying that you had the makings of a few good ideas.
lol hey i'd accept it... i find it funny =P
Quote from: Tears of Blood on Apr 28, 2008, 02:15 AM
I wouldn't, either. I was simply saying that you had the makings of a few good ideas.
Ah.
Quote from: JJJ on Apr 28, 2008, 09:29 AM
lol hey i'd accept it... i find it funny =P
Awww, thanks :'3.
Yes, it is funny. Hilarious, even. xD Still not a good idea for successful servers, though.
let them get run over by a monster lol!
Quote from: SinX7 on Jun 01, 2008, 02:02 PM
let them get run over by a monster lol!
lol does an RSX squishing em in jail count?
XD cause i've seen that
i came up with this idea while playing server with a DB problem. the admins had said that DB where not to be used anywhere but in the DB arena, but never disabled them on the field maps. So you would walk out of pront and straight into a biolab MVP some fool had BBed there. It got really bad, one weekend the only city exits not MVP camped was hugel and alberta, and every field map had a couple of mini bosses running around.
So the idea i had was that any time someone got cuaght DBing in a Field, they had to server their jail term with a hundred pori pori (agra). This would effectivly remove all their XP to 0%, but more importantly they would understand how the 1/1 novice walking out of pront felt.
lol thats pretty cool =P
but i think it'd lag their computers to such a hard core degree that they might never log in again XD
bad idea /hmm
I remember the first server I played on[it was a horrible server x.x] had an 'auto-bot hunter' system. When you were out leveling, if you killed the same monster more then 10 times in a row or were leveling too quickly, a chatbox would pop up. You had to type in some numbers or letters that showed in the dialog box within 10 seconds, or it would /kill you and make a broadcast "___ was caught botting! Shame on them!" There was also an NPC in town that told you who's been caught. It was an okay idea, but not really x.x
Rename them to I'm a dirty cheater, I believe thats what Xbox did to some users.
Other than that, if I really trust a player, I make some kind of mission or job, something related with what was his infriction.
Unique punishments....use them for prevents other to break the rules can be funny of course, but just for really BIG crimes maybe. I never use them, my only unique punishment as a Game Master was jail someone and silence him so he can't talk with other players or members of his guild. Someone in the Game Master team one day find the NICE idea to punish people by jail them with MvP so they will be killed again and again..and so? server closed.
These things can be funny, but they have consequences in the end if not keep under control.
in some ways im a fan of the public display of the cheaters, and in some ways im not.... its a hard choice to make imo
I usually put them on a hall of shame that isn't visited very often. After given warnings, I tend to make them @killable, thus, players will begin to bully them for limited time until they prove themselves with an apology for what they have done. Of course, this isn't in a pvp server.
Only time when my hall of shame was used would be the times where players want to hunt down those who are @killable.
Wouldn't recommend doing it my way though. I'm just a noob right around the corner.
I have the best punishment.
@addwarp to where it warps back to where the portal are,@recall the player in.
Then they repeatedly keep warping back to the spot, screen flashing.
Damage the player's computer and eyes, the character stuck until warp is removed.
Fun.
My methods never actually "kill" the player, too easy, it only takes them down to 1hp.
ScytheRO's jail has all of the weather effects turned on, fog, sakura, leaves, clouds, clouds2, ect ect.
It also has an extremely annoying children's song called "Birds of a Feather" sung by happy cheery annoying people.
Outside the bars are rows of static NPC's that use the Muka sprite, which also comes with all the noise a Muka makes, quite unpleasant when you get about 40 on one screen.
And then there are the jail guards, you lose all but 1 hp, the jail guards repeat all of the server rules, and then if you're not carefully and you just keep hitting enter enter enter he'll just repeat all the rules all over again.
I edited the spawn points in jail, you only go to the first cell, and I've turned off atcommands there, you have to walk into a warp outside of the jail cell that only normal players could reach to the left, just to frustrate them even more that they're so close to an exit and yet it's not even possible to reach.
Less than 60 seconds in jail you'll want to jam a pencil in your ear.
If you have anything that tops that, let me know.
*turns speakers off* :P
But kudos for the originality ^_^
Quote from: Poki on Aug 12, 2008, 06:38 PM
I usually put them on a hall of shame that isn't visited very often. After given warnings, I tend to make them @killable, thus, players will begin to bully them for limited time until they prove themselves with an apology for what they have done. Of course, this isn't in a pvp server.
Only time when my hall of shame was used would be the times where players want to hunt down those who are @killable.
Wouldn't recommend doing it my way though. I'm just a noob right around the corner.
It is not the player's responsibility to punish players. Using @Killable command for the purpose of teaching someone a lesson is abusive and need I say corrupt. Even IF the player in question was a frequent rule violator. This is what I'd define as a boast of power.
Quote from: Scars on Sep 16, 2008, 06:31 AM
I have the best punishment.
@addwarp to where it warps back to where the portal are,@recall the player in.
Then they repeatedly keep warping back to the spot, screen flashing.
Damage the player's computer and eyes, the character stuck until warp is removed.
Fun.
This measure is very abusive, this method is also a boast of power, it doesn't necessarily teach anyone a lesson but more so amuses the GM. A GM is not a GM for fun, or at least they should not be a GM for that reason. GMing is a serious job and should be treated as such.
Sure people say "It's just a game" but that doesn't mean that rules and ethics should not be followed.
Quote from: Zairik on Sep 16, 2008, 11:26 AM
My methods never actually "kill" the player, too easy, it only takes them down to 1hp.
ScytheRO's jail has all of the weather effects turned on, fog, sakura, leaves, clouds, clouds2, ect ect.
It also has an extremely annoying children's song called "Birds of a Feather" sung by happy cheery annoying people. ( etc... )
Lagging/crashing/killing a player is abusive, no rule offender should be subject to anything but the most basic of punishments. Warning, Muting, Jailing, Banning. The only good idea I can see is a script that will be a test to see if the player knows what is against the rules and what they should and should not do.
Quote from: corpsechan on Aug 03, 2008, 05:06 AM
I remember the first server I played on[it was a horrible server x.x] had an 'auto-bot hunter' system. When you were out leveling, if you killed the same monster more then 10 times in a row or were leveling too quickly, a chatbox would pop up. You had to type in some numbers or letters that showed in the dialog box within 10 seconds, or it would /kill you and make a broadcast "___ was caught botting! Shame on them!" There was also an NPC in town that told you who's been caught. It was an okay idea, but not really x.x
Automated Bot Hunting Scripts fail in the end, you'd have to cover every possible language for every player playing your server, which means innocent players will get caught most definitely and don't get me started on AFKers with auto-cards and homunculus. It is better to fix it so bots are incompatible with your server, or hunt them by hand. The Script method is lazy, inaccurate and etc ^~
Quote from: Mewi on Sep 16, 2008, 05:05 PM
Quote from: corpsechan on Aug 03, 2008, 05:06 AM
I remember the first server I played on[it was a horrible server x.x] had an 'auto-bot hunter' system. When you were out leveling, if you killed the same monster more then 10 times in a row or were leveling too quickly, a chatbox would pop up. You had to type in some numbers or letters that showed in the dialog box within 10 seconds, or it would /kill you and make a broadcast "___ was caught botting! Shame on them!" There was also an NPC in town that told you who's been caught. It was an okay idea, but not really x.x
Automated Bot Hunting Scripts fail in the end, you'd have to cover every possible language for every player playing your server, which means innocent players will get caught most definitely and don't get me started on AFKers with auto-cards and homunculus. It is better to fix it so bots are incompatible with your server, or hunt them by hand. The Script method is lazy, inaccurate and etc ^~
The bot hunting system was one of the many reasons the server was horrible. :P
This was before the homun were introduced.
Well...personally i'd love to see someone get their gender changed for sexual harrassment.
Or use the old CeresRO idea (I love this), if your getting annoying or spamming, you get sent a jail, but Bubba Bubba rapes you while your in it and it announces it to the whole server "(Name of player) has just been raped by a big Bubba Bubba in jail"
I always loved that XD
For extensive cursing, you could always use #item to give them a cookie and tell them to stfu :)
With me though, i'd only do that with friends. I like to make it seem more professional and serious then a joke.
Quote from: Mewi on Sep 16, 2008, 05:05 PM
Quote from: Poki on Aug 12, 2008, 06:38 PM
I usually put them on a hall of shame that isn't visited very often. After given warnings, I tend to make them @killable, thus, players will begin to bully them for limited time until they prove themselves with an apology for what they have done. Of course, this isn't in a pvp server.
Only time when my hall of shame was used would be the times where players want to hunt down those who are @killable.
Wouldn't recommend doing it my way though. I'm just a noob right around the corner.
It is not the player's responsibility to punish players. Using @Killable command for the purpose of teaching someone a lesson is abusive and need I say corrupt. Even IF the player in question was a frequent rule violator. This is what I'd define as a boast of power.
Quote from: Scars on Sep 16, 2008, 06:31 AM
I have the best punishment.
@addwarp to where it warps back to where the portal are,@recall the player in.
Then they repeatedly keep warping back to the spot, screen flashing.
Damage the player's computer and eyes, the character stuck until warp is removed.
Fun.
This measure is very abusive, this method is also a boast of power, it doesn't necessarily teach anyone a lesson but more so amuses the GM. A GM is not a GM for fun, or at least they should not be a GM for that reason. GMing is a serious job and should be treated as such.
Sure people say "It's just a game" but that doesn't mean that rules and ethics should not be followed.
Quote from: Zairik on Sep 16, 2008, 11:26 AM
My methods never actually "kill" the player, too easy, it only takes them down to 1hp.
ScytheRO's jail has all of the weather effects turned on, fog, sakura, leaves, clouds, clouds2, ect ect.
It also has an extremely annoying children's song called "Birds of a Feather" sung by happy cheery annoying people. ( etc... )
Lagging/crashing/killing a player is abusive, no rule offender should be subject to anything but the most basic of punishments. Warning, Muting, Jailing, Banning. The only good idea I can see is a script that will be a test to see if the player knows what is against the rules and what they should and should not do.
Quote from: corpsechan on Aug 03, 2008, 05:06 AM
I remember the first server I played on[it was a horrible server x.x] had an 'auto-bot hunter' system. When you were out leveling, if you killed the same monster more then 10 times in a row or were leveling too quickly, a chatbox would pop up. You had to type in some numbers or letters that showed in the dialog box within 10 seconds, or it would /kill you and make a broadcast "___ was caught botting! Shame on them!" There was also an NPC in town that told you who's been caught. It was an okay idea, but not really x.x
Automated Bot Hunting Scripts fail in the end, you'd have to cover every possible language for every player playing your server, which means innocent players will get caught most definitely and don't get me started on AFKers with auto-cards and homunculus. It is better to fix it so bots are incompatible with your server, or hunt them by hand. The Script method is lazy, inaccurate and etc ^~
It is called unique punishments. Those that you mention are not very unique at all. We have to be creative here. If I were a GM, I would make it so the player can't use any items,
at all. They can wear equips and use items but it won't have any effect on them. Then they will know how it feels to lose something.
Quote from: Loki on Sep 17, 2008, 08:05 AM
It is called unique punishments. Those that you mention are not very unique at all. We have to be creative here. If I were a GM, I would make it so the player can't use any items, at all. They can wear equips and use items but it won't have any effect on them. Then they will know how it feels to lose something.
So because I do not agree with them, means I cannot post my feelings about them? o.O I am an anti-corruption advocate, if I think something is corrupt then I will speak out against it ;p
Jail is jail, you don't want to be there long and we don't leave people there long.
I don't see a problem with making people lag in jail with effects, it's not suppose to be a pleasant experience. Some people are smart enough to turn off their effects and relog.
People will turn off their volume of course, in fact I would assume they would unless they're just stupid, but they always hear the first loud screeches of the Muka or the annoying song for a few seconds first depending on which they left on in their settings.
Most people are not prepared with effects and all sound off when they first get sent to jail, but no matter what your settings are, it's not pleasant.
It is punishment after all.
We never actually kill them, we don't take anything away from them or make them involuntarily drop all their items. We certainly don't change their gender or appearance.
We're not trying to harass people, we're trying to make jail unpleasant.
Many many times people would just sit there and do /yawn for 5 minutes straight in the default jail system, "oh this is nothing".
Now, they hate it, the lag and the annoying noises when you first get there, and then having to read all the rules before you can learn how much jail time you actually have left.
The point is to make your point the first time so you don't have to repeat the process.
You are not teaching them anything, just that you are using abusive means to punish abusers... I see no purpose to lagging someone or bombarding them with loud noises. By attempting to lag someone ( and I assume their computer ) you are going beyond the game, in which their violation did not occur, by attempting to lag and possibly crash their computer.
Anyway, I do not see any reason why this would prevent users from breaking the rules again o.O
Hrm, well, I don't have much respect as a GM for those who would even considering breaking or violating rules. You may despite and label me as a GM who abuses his powers, but in the end, it's still considered as a punishment.
As a side note, you're not abusing your powers if you were to punish someone who has violated a stated rule. They simply wish to be punished, not that we want to punish them on purpose. Sure, we may not teach them a lesson, but honestly, we're not there to teach them, they are to know the rules from the beginning they start playing the server.
I suppose I'm just very strict :(
I like the normal ways of 'punishments', like ban, jail, or mute. Also if they break forum rules, maybe take away their posting rights for x amount of time.
Not everyone who plays in-game has a forum account and that would be really difficult to find if they did and it still not be effective as punishment for breaking rules in-game.
@Mewi
Corruption would be the abuse of powers, not the use of powers. What's being discussed are types of punishment, not a specific situation or cause for the punishment so claiming abuse is a little odd. I think people throw around the word "corruption" too much to describe what they see as unwanted/disliked when that's not what it means. Cruel and unusual is more appropriate, but not unwarranted or abusive.
I meant if they broke forum rules on the forums, they would get their posting rights taken away.
Quote from: Zairik on Sep 21, 2008, 01:15 AM
Not everyone who plays in-game has a forum account and that would be really difficult to find if they did and it still not be effective as punishment for breaking rules in-game.
@Mewi
Corruption would be the abuse of powers, not the use of powers. What's being discussed are types of punishment, not a specific situation or cause for the punishment so claiming abuse is a little odd. I think people throw around the word "corruption" too much to describe what they see as unwanted/disliked when that's not what it means. Cruel and unusual is more appropriate, but not unwarranted or abusive.
Umm I said if the things mentioned were to be put into practice they would be abusive and corrupt. There is a fine line of ethics that everyone should follow at all times.
http://www.xfire.com/blog/mewi/7490/ (http://www.xfire.com/blog/mewi/7490/)
Quote from: Poki on Sep 19, 2008, 12:24 AM
Sure, we may not teach them a lesson, but honestly, we're not there to teach them
I agree, and this is something a lot of people don't understand.
Staff are not there to judge a personality or teach them a lesson or get involved with their personal problems, they're there to enforce the rules and with equal measure to everyone, first and foremost that is their job. Things like events and answering questions, these are all well and good and should be encouraged strongly (if not some of them mandated), however that is not the purpose of having staff in my opinion. It is the application and enforcement of rules. If players abuse their privileges and break the rules then we will revoke their privileges, temporarily or indefinitely. Rule breaking players have no right to abuse a service we're providing for free. They agree to the rules when they first join, and are forced to read them before they can even play. They know well in advance there are consequences for their actions if they intend to break the rules they were warned about.
And here's the thing, if you don't like jail then you don't have to go, it's your choice to break the rules or not.
You want to try to teach them a lesson, tell them what they did wrong, why it was wrong~~because those who do not learn from their mistakes are doomed to repeat them. Which of course means you will have to punish them again~
That's rather difficult if the person who you're trying to teach is immature and purposely chose to violate the rules. I rather spend my time in improving the enjoyment for others than teaching those who won't even be playing the server anymore due to poor choices made within the server.
I do understand where you're getting at, but I believe that they won't be considering playing the server again because it's usually people who want to destroy the server. How can you possibly teach someone with the intention of destroying your server considering that they hate the server and don't exactly want to play it?
I hardly find anyone who is willing to learn from they're mistakes, the only time people will learn in the world of RO from their mistakes is when they repeat it too many times, and realize that the only path they end up is a permanent ban or finding themselves having to switch servers rather quite often.
Well, of course... this is only my opinion and view on this and was base on what I have witnessed and dealt with. I'm rather strict with rule breakers and usually show no mercy. I basically don't want anyone who won't respect the server to be playing it at all. It's how I roll as a GM, and some consider me mean, while others know I'm just a little baby crying inside having to be so mean. :'(
EDIT: Hmm, yanno' what? I shall be nice, teach, then destroy if they don't want to learn. Simple as that, heh.
Quote from: Mewi on Sep 22, 2008, 09:45 PM
You want to try to teach them a lesson, tell them what they did wrong, why it was wrong~~because those who do not learn from their mistakes are doomed to repeat them. Which of course means you will have to punish them again~
That's called a first warning.
But we're talking about punishments not warnings or re-teaching the rules.
Quote from: Zairik on Sep 23, 2008, 10:19 PM
Quote from: Mewi on Sep 22, 2008, 09:45 PM
You want to try to teach them a lesson, tell them what they did wrong, why it was wrong~~because those who do not learn from their mistakes are doomed to repeat them. Which of course means you will have to punish them again~
That's called a first warning.
But we're talking about punishments not warnings or re-teaching the rules.
You just can't ban someone without telling them what they did to get banned -.- And I do not need a reminder as to the purpose of this thread~
Oh, the entire time, my thoughts of punishment was for those who broke the "biggest of the baddest" rules, not for the simple ones that are done by mistake.
Quote from: Mewi on Sep 25, 2008, 09:44 PM
You just can't ban someone without telling them what they did to get banned -.- And I do not need a reminder as to the purpose of this thread~
but what if you can't contact them? XD
just ran into an issue where the person got banned but there was no way to contact that person, soooo it ended very badly
Quote from: JJJ on Sep 26, 2008, 01:05 PM
Quote from: Mewi on Sep 25, 2008, 09:44 PM
You just can't ban someone without telling them what they did to get banned -.- And I do not need a reminder as to the purpose of this thread~
but what if you can't contact them? XD
just ran into an issue where the person got banned but there was no way to contact that person, soooo it ended very badly
Then you await for them to ask "why" on the forums, or you leave a message in a thread "User: Banned For: Info: "
Again, I thought we were talking about unique punishments, not situations or reasons for punishments (which is a whole different issue) or bannings. But then it's being said with an implication like we just ban people because they sneeze, which isn't true. Just because we enforce the rules and have harsh punishments doesn't mean we resort to banning for minor offenses. In fact, this whole topic has little to do with banning. Banning is not a unique punishment, banning is a last resort and not uncommon or unique at all.
I thought the topic was unique punishments, not cruel tortures.
playing loud noise? sounds like Abu Ghraib and Guantanamo Bay
How about considering an alternative punishment - community service?
1. Tank/Heal Slave new players for X hours
2. Give away personal equipments/zenies to new players
3. Guiding a new player in RO - do some quests (hunt quest items), show new players certain important NPCs
4. Helping GMs under supervision - bot patrol, event management, etc...
Research shows that alternative punishment is more successful at cultivating a sense of ethical value in the reformed perpetrators to prevent a repeat offence.
Research also shows that people who get their s*** given away leave the server altogether.
You can't force someone online to do bot patrol or event management; chances are they'll just log off because it's wasting their time. They're not a GM, so asking them to do GM jobs would probably just result in their frustation and them causing more trouble.
Being nice and showing people around shouldn't be a punishment, it should be something you do of your own free will XD If you use it as a punishment, people are going to associate doing good deeds with negativity because they're being made to do it (though, again, they can just log off ><).
Anywho.
I'm a big fan of the standard punishments. Mute, kick, jail. If need be, ban. Taking away posting rights, as someone already said, is another good'un. They're oldies but goodies, and they usually work. If you have repeat cases that never seem to quit making trouble, temp-bans or perma-bans.
There are some unique punishments that are entertaining, but honestly, that's all I find they are - entertaining. Broadcasting "This player is online. What an idiot!" is rude, stooping down to the person's level, and HIGHLY unprofessional, imo. If I set up a chat in a place where they're forbidden, for example, and then had GMs broadcast what a retard I apparently am every time I logged on, I would leave the server. Sure, somebody can be a pain in the donkey, but that is no reason to humiliate them. :\
Edit: I like that whole putting the rules on an npc in jail thing. If you spam enter you get them repeated to you again? Genius.
Quote from: bleu on Oct 16, 2008, 10:50 AM
I thought the topic was unique punishments, not cruel tortures.
playing loud noise? sounds like Abu Ghraib and Guantanamo Bay
How about considering an alternative punishment - community service?
1. Tank/Heal Slave new players for X hours
2. Give away personal equipments/zenies to new players
3. Guiding a new player in RO - do some quests (hunt quest items), show new players certain important NPCs
4. Helping GMs under supervision - bot patrol, event management, etc...
Research shows that alternative punishment is more successful at cultivating a sense of ethical value in the reformed perpetrators to prevent a repeat offence.
The problem with those things, is, you can't force them to do any of that. If they are to be jailed or banned, that's a type of punishment that's forced upon them, and can't be undone until (if it's not a definitive ban) the time given is up.
Also, I don't mean to spark up an old conversation, but @Mewi: No offense, but, not
everyone follows the same code of ethics as you do. I think that's proven by the many different opinions and thoughts of the people that have, not only here, but responded to all of the other topics of discussion on this forum. What you may think corrupt, could be an act of justice to someone else. I can understand where you're coming from, and I'm sure we all understand why you are so against corruption (what with that whole drama with that one server, I can't remember which topic it was >_O) but we've all been there, or at least we all will be. I know I have, and I can't stand corruption, but I can open my mind to thoughts and workings of other people. There isn't a certain "GM Code" because everyone has a different idea or opinion about a "GM Code."
For example, some people say it's wrong for a GM to play as a legit player, some don't. Some believe that having more than one GM on your team is just begging for abuse, some believe it's better that way. Some believe GMs shouldn't have commands such as @item, some believe that it's harmless when the right precautions are taken. There are just so many different views and beliefs, you can't place a certain tag on what's right and wrong to you, and say that everyone else should believe it too. I do understand that you're going to stand up for what you believe, I do it too, I just don't think you can really try and force what you believe on other people. To me,
that's wrong.
Calling corruption on every little thing you don't personally agree with is almost as bad as corruption itself, in my own opinion. Plus, the only things that I can honestly see as "corrupt" or "abusive" was a couple of things mentioned in Mrrgle's original post, out of the suggestions mentioned here.
Sorry for the lecture, just felt like it needed to be said. Dx Don't mean to be off-topic, if I am. ~
Anyways, I agree with a couple of people here, who say the regular punishments are good enough. I, myself, when giving out a permanent ban, take away forum rights and any other rights to our server. Though it's awesome some people are coming up with interesting ideas and views of how to punish someone, going off of what Poki has already stated, you can't
force someone to learn their lesson, and I really don't think changing up how it's done will make any real difference. That's my own personal opinion, though.
Quote from: Auroraâ,,¢ on Oct 16, 2008, 11:27 AM
Quote from: bleu on Oct 16, 2008, 10:50 AM
I thought the topic was unique punishments, not cruel tortures.
playing loud noise? sounds like Abu Ghraib and Guantanamo Bay
How about considering an alternative punishment - community service?
1. Tank/Heal Slave new players for X hours
2. Give away personal equipments/zenies to new players
3. Guiding a new player in RO - do some quests (hunt quest items), show new players certain important NPCs
4. Helping GMs under supervision - bot patrol, event management, etc...
Research shows that alternative punishment is more successful at cultivating a sense of ethical value in the reformed perpetrators to prevent a repeat offence.
The problem with those things, is, you can't force them to do any of that. If they are to be jailed or banned, that's a type of punishment that's forced upon them, and can't be undone until (if it's not a definitive ban) the time given is up.
Also, I don't mean to spark up an old conversation, but @Mewi: No offense, but, not everyone follows the same code of ethics as you do. I think that's proven by the many different opinions and thoughts of the people that have, not only here, but responded to all of the other topics of discussion on this forum. What you may think corrupt, could be an act of justice to someone else. I can understand where you're coming from, and I'm sure we all understand why you are so against corruption (what with that whole drama with that one server, I can't remember which topic it was >_O) but we've all been there, or at least we all will be. I know I have, and I can't stand corruption, but I can open my mind to thoughts and workings of other people. There isn't a certain "GM Code" because everyone has a different idea or opinion about a "GM Code."
For example, some people say it's wrong for a GM to play as a legit player, some don't. Some believe that having more than one GM on your team is just begging for abuse, some believe it's better that way. Some believe GMs shouldn't have commands such as @item, some believe that it's harmless when the right precautions are taken. There are just so many different views and beliefs, you can't place a certain tag on what's right and wrong to you, and say that everyone else should believe it too. I do understand that you're going to stand up for what you believe, I do it too, I just don't think you can really try and force what you believe on other people. To me, that's wrong.
Calling corruption on every little thing you don't personally agree with is almost as bad as corruption itself, in my own opinion. Plus, the only things that I can honestly see as "corrupt" or "abusive" was a couple of things mentioned in Mrrgle's original post, out of the suggestions mentioned here.
Sorry for the lecture, just felt like it needed to be said. Dx Don't mean to be off-topic, if I am. ~
Anyways, I agree with a couple of people here, who say the regular punishments are good enough. I, myself, when giving out a permanent ban, take away forum rights and any other rights to our server. Though it's awesome some people are coming up with interesting ideas and views of how to punish someone, going off of what Poki has already stated, you can't force someone to learn their lesson, and I really don't think changing up how it's done will make any real difference. That's my own personal opinion, though.
Okay we aren't talking about any of the examples you gave... We are talking about administering punishments and when you start finding cruel and unusual ways to punish someone for the sake of personal amusement. That is quite frankly corrupt and I cannot see any other reason why you would not think it wasn't corrupt.
Does it matter who is the one being punished if you are using cruel and unusual punishments? Not really, the trolls, the bots, the anything really. All you are doing is creating a wide open area for abuse and excuses.
Sure you may not like my opinions but I and some of my friends have been victim to many of these people's suggestions by corrupt GMs, so don't tell me none of these suggestions are corrupt -.-
For example, Deliverance-Online: I got @killed, @warped to pvp and @job novice and publicly killed for no reason except simply because the admin found out from another admin that I was suspecting corruption of ( Jake the admin )
Regarding the multitude of people in this thread and your statement about their opinions. I respect their opinions but I also take into consideration the large majority of GMs that are corrupt. I estimate somewhere around 95% of all GMs are corrupt so unless RMS is an exception and only serious GMs post in this section ( I can only hope ) it wouldn't be to farfetched to consider the possibility that 95% of the GMs here are corrupt as well, would it?
No offense to anyone of course it's just a truthful observation ;\
Corruption is:
Quote
1. lack of integrity or honesty (especially susceptibility to bribery); use of a position of trust for dishonest gain [syn: corruptness] [ant: incorruption]
2. in a state of progressive putrefaction [syn: putrescence]
3. decay of matter (as by rot or oxidation)
4. moral perversion; impairment of virtue and moral principles; "the luxury and corruption among the upper classes"; "moral degeneracy followed intellectual degeneration"; "its brothels, its opium parlors, its depravity"; "Rome had fallen into moral putrefaction"
So it's easy to say that a lot of particularly cruel punishments can fall under that category, I think.
I never said I didn't like your opinions, simply that I, personally, don't believe they're entirely true. Like I said already, everyone has been, and will be, subject to corruption from another GM or administrator at least once, unless they are lucky enough to find a server absolutely, 100% free of any type of corruption (even though that's improbable, seeing as corruption can easily stretch out to the players being corrupt in their own ways.)
Also, I'm talking about punishing for something a player actually did wrong. Which is what this topic is about, not punishing just because we can; that is, no doubt, corrupt. What the punishment is doesn't really matter, as long as it's fair. Doing something to attempt to make them not enjoy their punishment, as Zairik said, is not abusive, because if it so happens their computer lags out, for example, that's their own problem. If a person broke the rules, a person broke the rules. They have no room to complain, whatsoever, when the infringement is clearly stated as against the rules, therefore, any administrator has the right to deliver a punishment, whatever it may be, according to the severity of the act. It's their server, they choose how to punish, that doesn't necessarily catagorize them as corrupt.
I understand that a lot of GMs or administrators out there are corrupt, but there is, without a doubt, a large population that are not. I've met plenty of people in my day that can pull off being a fair and non-abusive GM. Whether or not they always make the right decision, that's a different story, but making mistakes is a part of life.
Either way, I'm only stating my own opinion, and my opinion is that I don't entirely agree with what you're saying is corrupt when it comes to punishments, s'all. Take that how you will, I guess.
Quote from: Auroraâ,,¢ on Oct 16, 2008, 12:12 PM
Doing something to attempt to make them not enjoy their punishment, as Zairik said, is not abusive, because if it so happens their computer lags out, for example, that's their own problem. If a person broke the rules, a person broke the rules. They have no room to complain, whatsoever, when the infringement is clearly stated as against the rules, therefore, any administrator has the right to deliver a punishment, whatever it may be, according to the severity of the act. It's their server, they choose how to punish, that doesn't necessarily catagorize them as corrupt.
What Zairik suggests is beyond the game in which an infraction did not occur which makes the punishment quite bizarre. Lagging someones computer intentionally is abusive, two wrongs don't make a right and you should not punish someone using such thinking. Justice is not about revenge or unusual punishments it should be straight forward and informative to the fact.
As for admins 'right' I think you will agree with me on this. Being an admin/gm/mod is not a right, it's a privilege. Unfortunately that's something most higher ups fail to grasp. You may think this all my opinion, I take being a GM very seriously because I don't want others to be victimized as I or my friends have been in the past.
You can also say that I am turning down their ideas based on opinion. So if I am then that's also your opinion. I am just here pointing out the re precautions of some of these suggestions if they were to be taken into practice.
So unless it states officially in bold text "By playing this server I accept that if I break the rules, I agree to surrender my computer to severe lag and or crashing" It's corrupt and unless even if it did say that... It is still a pretty questionable activity for an admin/gm/mod etc.
To be an administrator isn't necessarily a privilege when you're the one paying for it, honestly, which gives you the right to decide the punishments, how the punishments are administered and to what extent they are administered. Just because it might lag someone to the extent of having to exit the game, doesn't make it his intention. The only reason he incorporates such methods is to make it unenjoyable, not to purposely make it so their computer frizzes out. Again, if that happens, it's their own problem. If different and unusual, as already stated, is corrupt, then there are a lot of people that are "corrupt" in this world.
Also, being a player on a server is a privilege, not a right. An administrator has the right to take away said privilege upon any infractions towards the server, again, in anyway they decide when it comes to the severity of the act against the server. I also take being a GM very seriously, but again, my opinions are different from yours.
Quote from: Auroraâ,,¢ on Oct 16, 2008, 01:00 PM
To be an administrator isn't necessarily a privilege when you're the one paying for it, honestly, which gives you the right to decide the punishments, how the punishments are administered and to what extent they are administered. Just because it might lag someone to the extent of having to exit the game, doesn't make it his intention. The only reason he incorporates such methods is to make it unenjoyable, not to purposely make it so their computer frizzes out. Again, if that happens, it's their own problem. If different and unusual, as already stated, is corrupt, then there are a lot of people that are "corrupt" in this world.
Also, being a player on a server is a privilege, not a right. An administrator has the right to take away said privilege upon any infractions towards the server, again, in anyway they decide when it comes to the severity of the act against the server. I also take being a GM very seriously, but again, my opinions are different from yours.
So according to this information, I gather that admins/mods have more rights over the players? This is not something I agree with or can condone. Because quite clearly it is the players who keep the server alive whether or not the admin/gm wants to admit. Sure it takes two to tango, however players are what makes the server worth playing.
Em and if I recall Zairik stated clearly that his intention was to lag the player. So what unforeseen consequences in addition to this player's punishment can happen? What if that player was working on a school report and neglected to save, working on photo editing, talking with a friend outside of the game on an important matter, finances, or simply downloading files and then their computer suddenly lags so much that it forces a reboot?
Can you justify that loss of their work, their conversation, their personal lives, which had NOTHING to do with the server, to whom ever it may be? Even rule violators have rights so I am against lagging anyone for the purpose of 'punishment'. I don't think this is a practical form of punishment and it lacks so much morality that I am ashamed to even be discussing it ;\
It is not a right in whatever way I look at it. Sure you may pay for the server, you may administer it. But in the end, you are the boss, and a boss has to stick to their ethics if they ever hope for a server to live. People have all sorts of powers that are easily abusive, police get paid to keep the peace. Would you say being a member of congress, the president or even a member of the police be a right? Sure you may have a right to take on the role even partially but in the end it's a privilege.
No matter what the case if you don't do your job right, thing's will not go well for you. There is a reason why rules are written, this is so no one can dispute your decisions. If you make up punishments that do not adhere to those rules then you are breaking promises to the people you provide the server to. With privilege you are not only given rights to administer punishment but you are also accepting that you will not abuse them.
Here is an example of basic RO punishments that really should not differ from server to server.
Quote from: mewi's rulesAny violation of the rules above can and may lead to the following consequences without warning:
a) The removal of your post(s), character(s) or item(s).
b) The muting and or jailing of your character(s).
c) The temporary suspension of your account(s).
d) The permanent suspension of your account(s).
e) The permanent suspension of all services provided by this server.
Mewi, what you're failing to realize, and what you're failing to comprehend, is that all of that is
your opinion.
Quote from: Zairik Sep 17, 2008, 02:00 pmJail is jail, you don't want to be there long and we don't leave people there long.
I don't see a problem with making people lag in jail with effects, it's not suppose to be a pleasant experience. Some people are smart enough to turn off their effects and relog.
People will turn off their volume of course, in fact I would assume they would unless they're just stupid, but they always hear the first loud screeches of the Muka or the annoying song for a few seconds first depending on which they left on in their settings.
Most people are not prepared with effects and all sound off when they first get sent to jail, but no matter what your settings are, it's not pleasant.
It is punishment after all.
We never actually kill them, we don't take anything away from them or make them involuntarily drop all their items. We certainly don't change their gender or appearance.
We're not trying to harass people, we're trying to make jail unpleasant.
Many many times people would just sit there and do /yawn for 5 minutes straight in the default jail system, "oh this is nothing".
Now, they hate it, the lag and the annoying noises when you first get there, and then having to read all the rules before you can learn how much jail time you actually have left.
The point is to make your point the first time so you don't have to repeat the process.
This is not stating his intention is solely to lag the player. This states that lag is a part of the punishment, and it's not so far-fetched as you're making it out to be. He's not saying he's trying to make it so bad, that it's supposed to lag out someone's computer, and again, if this happens? It's their own fault. They broke the rules, and if something like that happens, it happens. That's life, and though what they're doing outside of the game doesn't have anything to do with the rule they broke, they still did it, they're suffering the punishment of which the administrator decided be the punishment for whatever they have done, and stating again for the fifth time, that's their problem if the lag happens to stretch beyond the game. Also, you're claiming that things outside of the game are different from inside the game, but at the same time you justify that it's not just a game, and it should be taken seriously, which would indeed stretch out into other things that should be taken seriously, such as the examples you gave.
In no way did I say the administrators or staff members had rights over the players, and I'm not exactly sure how you came to that conclusion. I said, it's a right to be the administrator over the server you're paying for. In all technicalities, that does give you more power than the players, it's whether or not the person in power has enough respect and care for their players to actually follow the same rules they give to their players. What you're saying has nothing to do with the punishment, more or less a case of questioning the morality of any administrator that would go as far as thinking they are better than the players, which in no way, is what I said.
Also, again, your rules have nothing to do with the rules of others. Administrators should not have the follow the same basic rules of another server, or another person, why? Because that, for a fact, is going against the rights to have your own opinion. If an administrator purposely abuses their powers, and are doing it to spite the players of which they don't care about, that's their own problem, and that will be handled on that server, but there are plenty of administrators out there who wish to go to different extents of punishments for the bettering of the server - not because they are corrupt.
This next opinion is not meant as an insult, and I'm sorry if you take it that way; it seems to me, Mewi, all you're doing is stating your opinion and believing that everyone should follow that same opinion, and believe that your opinion is right even if it goes against their own personal ethics. It seems to me that you're trying to force your opinion on others, and if they don't agree with it, they're wrong and unethical.
Either way, I've stated my opinion, and feel my point is proven enough, and I'm sorry to the moderators for going kind of off-topic. XD
I guess I'll end this
arguement debate. If you want to discuss this with me further, to prevent spamming this topic, just PM me. x:
John 8:7 Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.
(http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/ii25/famiong/pebbles.jpg)
Quote from: bleu on Oct 16, 2008, 02:05 PM
John 8:1 Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.
That's probably one of the best things I've seen said in this topic. XD
No one is completely innocent when it comes to anything. I can easily admit I've made plenty of mistakes.
I like the inclusion of the picture of rocks.
It made me laugh. XD
Those rocks are pretty ^_^
Quote from: Auroraâ,,¢ on Oct 16, 2008, 01:52 PM
Mewi, what you're failing to realize, and what you're failing to comprehend, is that all of that is your opinion.
I am not failing to comprehend anything, please do not assume you know what I am thinking >.> Just because I do not state "in my opinion" 50 times like you do, does not mean I am failing to see other people's opinions, or see that some opinions I have are just my own. I simply do not agree with them. But what you fail to comprehend is that I am not the only one who holds these opinions. Sorry I don't go with the flow just because everyone else is, I do have a mind of my own -.- Not saying you do not but do not stomp on my opinions just because they are opposing other's.
Quote from: Auroraâ,,¢ on Oct 16, 2008, 01:52 PM
This is not stating his intention is solely to lag the player. This states that lag is a part of the punishment, and it's not so far-fetched as you're making it out to be.
So a part or a whole or a half makes any difference to my statement how? The fact is that it is part of the intention~ Thus not changing anything I said above or disproving anything, an otherwise irrelevant comment. *continues to edit my post*
You do not make attacks towards other people's properties else be subject to lawsuits for damaging their property. Even if they broke the rules on your server, I can almost promise that if the intention ( no matter how many parts of it ) was to lag someone's system you would lose in the court of law, because you went beyond the game to 'teach them a lesson'
Now for another example, since your claims of my far-fetched ideals are sooo far out there ( as if some of yours are not ) Let's say an admin programmed a virus into his game files that would disable someone's PC through a remote command, when ever he thought someone was breaking his rules. Now have you ever heard of this method in any game company? Absolutely NOT. That case and lagging someone using game mechanics is one in the same.
My rules have nothing to do with other's rules? It was an example of basic punishments, and in this topic, what is and should be done is important because any other GM could come across this and might be mislead into thinking certain things are okay when they are not. I see no reason why I can't use my own written rules as an example to this seemingly argumentative debate about ethics. In which
In MY opinion are far more defined -.-
Quote from: Pandora on Oct 16, 2008, 05:19 PM
Those rocks are pretty ^_^
Meow?
I am not failing to comprehend anything, please do not assume you know what I am thinking >.> Just because I do not state "in my opinion" 50 times like you do, does not mean I am failing to see other people's opinions, or see that some opinions I have are just my own. I simply do not agree with them. But what you fail to comprehend is that I am not the only one who holds these opinions. Sorry I don't go with the flow just because everyone else is, I do have a mind of my own -.- Not saying you do not but do not stomp on my opinions just because they are opposing other's.
First of all, I'm not "stomping on" your opinions. I'm also not "assuming" to know what you're thinking, I'm going off what you're saying, which everything you say is basically defending what you believe to be righteous, and basically saying everyone else is wrong. Quite honestly, you're taking this a little too far. We've gone from discussing the ethics of punishments, to you claiming that I'm attacking your opinions, when you yourself are doing just that to other's opinions. I never said you were the only one who believed such opinions as you claim to believe, which would in-turn, make you the one that's "assuming" what I'm thinking. Kind of a flip-flopped situation? I also never said that there was anything wrong with thinking differently, but there's a difference between thinking differently and holding true to those ideals, and thinking differently and instantly saying a person is wrong or unjust because they don't agree with what you think. I say "in my opinion" plenty of times because this is "in my opinion", and I make it clear because, unlike you, I'm not going to accuse someone of being something, such as corrupt or unfair, because they don't agree with what I think.
When you think something, it doesn't make it right, and I'm willing to admit the same for myself.
You do not make attacks towards other people's properties else be subject to lawsuits for damaging their property. Even if they broke the rules on your server, I can almost promise that if the intention ( no matter how many parts of it ) was to lag someone's system you would lose in the court of law, because you went beyond the game to 'teach them a lesson'
Again, his intention was not to lag another person's system, and quite honestly, I'm starting to think the fact that Zairik said this, is the only defense you have in this debate - End of discussion.
Now for another example, since your claims of my far-fetched ideals are sooo far out there ( as if some of yours are not ) Let's say an admin programmed a virus into his game files that would disable someone's PC through a remote command, when ever he thought someone was breaking his rules. Now have you ever heard of this method in any game company? Absolutely NOT. That case and lagging someone using game mechanics is one in the same.
First of all, part of this makes absolutely no sense. An administrator programming a virus into a PC, and an unintentional computer crash (though I highly doubt it, seeing as ANYONE'S computer can easily hand the little bits of things that was incorporated into his jailing idea) are two COMPLETELY different ideas. Not even close to being a good analogy.
My rules have nothing to do with other's rules? It was an example of basic punishments, and in this topic, what is and should be done is important because any other GM could come across this and might be mislead into thinking certain things are okay when they are not. I see no reason why I can't use my own written rules as an example to this seemingly argumentative debate about ethics. In which In MY opinion are far more defined -.-
I would expect other GMs to have their own opinions and thoughts about what should and shouldn't be done, than have to refer to a whacky discussion such as this in order to get an idea of what to do, and again, since it's apparent you enjoy taking what I say and twisting it around, I never said you couldn't use your own written rules as an example. I simply said, that your rules have nothing to do with other people's rules. Why? Because, once again, for the five millionth time, everyone has their own idea about GM ethics.
I really don't see any point in furthering this debate, seeing as it's going no where, and, as you're trying to claim I'm doing, all you're doing to my opinions (as you've already done a couple of times in this thread) is belittling them, I'm just going to stop discontinue my side of the argument here, since you obviously didn't get the hint when I tried to move it to private messages with my last post. :3
Quote from: Auroraâ,,¢ on Oct 16, 2008, 01:00 PM
To be an administrator isn't necessarily a privilege when you're the one paying for it, honestly, which gives you the right to decide the punishments, how the punishments are administered and to what extent they are administered. Just because it might lag someone to the extent of having to exit the game, doesn't make it his intention. The only reason he incorporates such methods is to make it unenjoyable, not to purposely make it so their computer frizzes out. Again, if that happens, it's their own problem. If different and unusual, as already stated, is corrupt, then there are a lot of people that are "corrupt" in this world.
Also, being a player on a server is a privilege, not a right. An administrator has the right to take away said privilege upon any infractions towards the server, again, in anyway they decide when it comes to the severity of the act against the server. I also take being a GM very seriously, but again, my opinions are different from yours.
uhm this guy is clearly corrupt(the original poster).
Quote from: MrrgleCaek on Apr 21, 2008, 07:10 PM
This was about revenge on my part? o_o;
I thought it was just for fun =v, oh well, silly me. How many more things do corrupt GMs do? And...I can't comprehend about being serious for a private server and this whole "GM code" thing unless I missed a manual for knowing the GM code =v. People seem to use the word Corrupt alot nowadays *scratches chin*.
But alas, some seem to disapprove of me being cynical....I must be looking so terrible as a GM right now XD!
his unique punishments aren't for justice, they're apparently for fun......
btw which tarded necromancer resurrected this topic >_>
Quote from: Auroraâ,,¢ on Oct 16, 2008, 07:50 PM
I am not failing to comprehend anything, please do not assume you know what I am thinking >.> Just because I do not state "in my opinion" 50 times like you do, does not mean I am failing to see other people's opinions, or see that some opinions I have are just my own. I simply do not agree with them. But what you fail to comprehend is that I am not the only one who holds these opinions. Sorry I don't go with the flow just because everyone else is, I do have a mind of my own -.- Not saying you do not but do not stomp on my opinions just because they are opposing other's.
First of all, I'm not "stomping on" your opinions. I'm also not "assuming" to know what you're thinking, I'm going off what you're saying, which everything you say is basically defending what you believe to be righteous, and basically saying everyone else is wrong. Quite honestly, you're taking this a little too far. We've gone from discussing the ethics of punishments, to you claiming that I'm attacking your opinions, when you yourself are doing just that to other's opinions. I never said you were the only one who believed such opinions as you claim to believe, which would in-turn, make you the one that's "assuming" what I'm thinking. Kind of a flip-flopped situation? I also never said that there was anything wrong with thinking differently, but there's a difference between thinking differently and holding true to those ideals, and thinking differently and instantly saying a person is wrong or unjust because they don't agree with what you think. I say "in my opinion" plenty of times because this is "in my opinion", and I make it clear because, unlike you, I'm not going to accuse someone of being something, such as corrupt or unfair, because they don't agree with what I think.
When you think something, it doesn't make it right, and I'm willing to admit the same for myself.
You do not make attacks towards other people's properties else be subject to lawsuits for damaging their property. Even if they broke the rules on your server, I can almost promise that if the intention ( no matter how many parts of it ) was to lag someone's system you would lose in the court of law, because you went beyond the game to 'teach them a lesson'
Again, his intention was not to lag another person's system, and quite honestly, I'm starting to think the fact that Zairik said this, is the only defense you have in this debate - End of discussion.
Now for another example, since your claims of my far-fetched ideals are sooo far out there ( as if some of yours are not ) Let's say an admin programmed a virus into his game files that would disable someone's PC through a remote command, when ever he thought someone was breaking his rules. Now have you ever heard of this method in any game company? Absolutely NOT. That case and lagging someone using game mechanics is one in the same.
First of all, part of this makes absolutely no sense. An administrator programming a virus into a PC, and an unintentional computer crash (though I highly doubt it, seeing as ANYONE'S computer can easily hand the little bits of things that was incorporated into his jailing idea) are two COMPLETELY different ideas. Not even close to being a good analogy.
My rules have nothing to do with other's rules? It was an example of basic punishments, and in this topic, what is and should be done is important because any other GM could come across this and might be mislead into thinking certain things are okay when they are not. I see no reason why I can't use my own written rules as an example to this seemingly argumentative debate about ethics. In which In MY opinion are far more defined -.-
I would expect other GMs to have their own opinions and thoughts about what should and shouldn't be done, than have to refer to a whacky discussion such as this in order to get an idea of what to do, and again, since it's apparent you enjoy taking what I say and twisting it around, I never said you couldn't use your own written rules as an example. I simply said, that your rules have nothing to do with other people's rules. Why? Because, once again, for the five millionth time, everyone has their own idea about GM ethics.
I really don't see any point in furthering this debate, seeing as it's going no where, and, as you're trying to claim I'm doing, all you're doing to my opinions (as you've already done a couple of times in this thread) is belittling them, I'm just going to stop discontinue my side of the argument here, since you obviously didn't get the hint when I tried to move it to private messages with my last post. :3
You say you weren't telling me what I was thinking, YET you tell me I am failing to comprehend something when I am full aware of every little thing you have stated?
THAT my friend is an assumption.
If you can't even remember what you typed or what others have typed, it's best to take a sideline on this instance.
I do not recall ever calling anyone corrupt straight out, where did I? I said various actions would be defined as corrupt. So I hope you realize I have been a GM for almost 6 years and I have been dealing with corruption for 12 even when I was young. I can specifically say in great detail what corruption is like and where it will start. Because I have experience in dealing with it, fighting it and stopping it. Can you say the same?
Regarding your opinions, I respect them, but I will not speak for others that can or will not speak for themselves as you have in-order to gain some kind of position in the debate. I wont say "well this person and that person think this way so you must be wrong". You are saying I'm stomping on others opinions? It's just an opposite opinion, thats why we make topics right?
The only reason why my last post was aggressive and I stated you were stomping on my opinions was and is because I really dislike people telling me that I cannot comprehend something when I can. Which clearly since you said that, you are stating that you knew/know what I am thinking and what my capabilities are. That is not an assumption but based on your previous statement toward my person~
Quote from: Auroraâ,,¢ on Oct 16, 2008, 07:50 PM
Again, his intention was not to lag another person's system, and quite honestly, I'm starting to think the fact that Zairik said this, is the only defense you have in this debate - End of discussion.
And YET he mentions lag multiple times in his example of unusual punishment, certainly appears to be his intention... I'm starting to think you have a personal interest in this conversation since you seem to be ignoring everything in his defense. - NOT end of discussion -.-
Quote from: Auroraâ,,¢ on Oct 16, 2008, 07:50 PM
First of all, part of this makes absolutely no sense.
If you read my sentence, it would make perfect sense. I never said anything about it being 'unintentional'
Quote from: Auroraâ,,¢ on Oct 16, 2008, 07:50 PM
I would expect other GMs to have their own opinions and thoughts about what should and shouldn't be done, than have to refer to a whacky discussion such as this in order to get an idea of what to do, and again, since it's apparent you enjoy taking what I say and twisting it around, I never said you couldn't use your own written rules as an example.
Example is the greatest thing this world has to offer. For if we do not learn from other's mistakes through example, we are doomed to repeat them.
Quote from: Auroraâ,,¢ on Oct 16, 2008, 07:50 PM
since it's apparent you enjoy taking what I say and twisting it around
Another assumption, I do not intentionally 'twist' anything you say. I simply take it how I read it.
Quote from: Auroraâ,,¢ on Oct 16, 2008, 07:50 PMI'm just going to stop discontinue my side of the argument here, since you obviously didn't get the hint when I tried to move it to private messages with my last post. :3
Another assumption, saying that I didn't get the hint. Jeez you must know me very well. I will state whatever I like, where ever I like, whenever I like, as long as it is in the confides of the rules of RMS you cannot dictate where our conversation is held. You are just trying to get the last word in a debate. Something many have done before in the past. It is still on topic nevertheless and if you want to call that an assumption then fine, I'll be a hypocrite with you.
This is all
In My Opinion
Alright, like I already said, this debate has gone from going back and forth about whether or not punishments are "corrupt and unfair" to attacking another person's personal ethics. Also, uh, where exactly have I spoken for someone else? I'd like you to point out where, seeing as the fact that as I read through everything I've wrote, I've only written about how I view things such as Zairik's ways of punishments and/or, going on about the topics that have nothing to do with this topic, that you've brought up. Where have you called the opinions of people corrupt?
Here:
Quote from: Mewi Sep 16, 2008, 05:05 pmIt is not the player's responsibility to punish players. Using @Killable command for the purpose of teaching someone a lesson is abusive and need I say corrupt. Even IF the player in question was a frequent rule violator. This is what I'd define as a boast of power.
Towards Poki.
Quote from: Mewi Sep 16, 2008, 05:05 pm
This measure is very abusive, this method is also a boast of power, it doesn't necessarily teach anyone a lesson but more so amuses the GM. A GM is not a GM for fun, or at least they should not be a GM for that reason. GMing is a serious job and should be treated as such.
Sure people say "It's just a game" but that doesn't mean that rules and ethics should not be followed.
Towards Scars.
Quote from: Mewi Sep 16, 2008, 05:05 pmLagging/crashing/killing a player is abusive, no rule offender should be subject to anything but the most basic of punishments. Warning, Muting, Jailing, Banning. The only good idea I can see is a script that will be a test to see if the player knows what is against the rules and what they should and should not do.
Towards Zairik.
Also, just to note, I never once (yet another case of my words being twisted around) said that you
directly called another
person corrupt, but that you deem the opinions of other's corrupt if it doesn't follow your exact measure of ethics.
Also, again, you just seem to be stating the same defense again and again, as well as attempting to turn every little thing I say, around. That, my dear, is something that's not even worthy debating with, and as I already said, this argument's over, and
if you want to discuss anything further, just PM me, I'll have no problem "debating" with you further there.Also, I highly doubt you've been an RO GM for 6 years. RO itself, the english, non-beta version has been out for a rough 5 and a half years. Private servers didn't even start spawning for another half year/year and a half. If you've been a GM since kRO itself came out, that's pretty impressive, but highly doubtful. Either way, experience as a GM has nothing to do with being able to call out corruption. Yet another thing I've had to constantly repeat myself about, which is avoided every time you reply, everyone has their own GM ethics. Any right-minded person can tell that someone is corrupt, or wrong in what they're doing, whether that person meant to do it or not.
Now, then. My attention towards this topic ceases here. Go ahead and continue. Tired of repeating the same things towards an argument, that itself, is being constantly repeated.
@mickiedeez: The post that made me notice this thread was the post by bleu.
Edit//
I couldn't care less about getting the last word in a debate, I guess you know me pretty well too, hm? Which is exactly, if read this post, why I said go ahead and keep bashing, I really couldn't care less. I've stated my opinion, and my point, it's your decision to accept or deny it.
Quote from: Auroraâ,,¢ on Oct 16, 2008, 11:36 PM
Alright, like I already said, this debate has gone from going back and forth about whether or not punishments are "corrupt and unfair" to attacking another person's personal ethics. Also, uh, where exactly have I spoken for someone else? I'd like you to point out where, seeing as the fact that as I read through everything I've wrote, I've only written about how I view things such as Zairik's ways of punishments and/or, going on about the topics that have nothing to do with this topic, that you've brought up. Where have you called the opinions of people corrupt?
Here:
Quote from: Mewi Sep 16, 2008, 05:05 pmIt is not the player's responsibility to punish players. Using @Killable command for the purpose of teaching someone a lesson is abusive and need I say corrupt. Even IF the player in question was a frequent rule violator. This is what I'd define as a boast of power.
Towards Poki.
Quote from: Mewi Sep 16, 2008, 05:05 pm
This measure is very abusive, this method is also a boast of power, it doesn't necessarily teach anyone a lesson but more so amuses the GM. A GM is not a GM for fun, or at least they should not be a GM for that reason. GMing is a serious job and should be treated as such.
Sure people say "It's just a game" but that doesn't mean that rules and ethics should not be followed.
Towards Scars.
Quote from: Mewi Sep 16, 2008, 05:05 pmLagging/crashing/killing a player is abusive, no rule offender should be subject to anything but the most basic of punishments. Warning, Muting, Jailing, Banning. The only good idea I can see is a script that will be a test to see if the player knows what is against the rules and what they should and should not do.
Towards Zairik.
Also, just to note, I never once (yet another case of my words being twisted around) said that you directly called another person corrupt, but that you deem the opinions of other's corrupt if it doesn't follow your exact measure of ethics.
Also, again, you just seem to be stating the same defense again and again, as well as attempting to turn every little thing I say, around. That, my dear, is something that's not even worthy debating with, and as I already said, this argument's over, and if you want to discuss anything further, just PM me, I'll have no problem "debating" with you further there.
Also, I highly doubt you've been an RO GM for 6 years. RO itself, the english, non-beta version has been out for a rough 5 and a half years. Private servers didn't even start spawning for another half year/year and a half. If you've been a GM since kRO itself came out, that's pretty impressive, but highly doubtful. Either way, experience as a GM has nothing to do with being able to call out corruption. Yet another thing I've had to constantly repeat myself about, which is avoided every time you reply, everyone has their own GM ethics. Any right-minded person can tell that someone is corrupt, or wrong in what they're doing, whether that person meant to do it or not.
Now, then. My attention towards this topic ceases here. Go ahead and continue. Tired of repeating the same things towards an argument, that itself, is being constantly repeated.
@mickiedeez: The post that made me notice this thread was the post by bleu.
I never said anything about it being RO in which the server I GMed on. I have GMed more than one game classification, moderated quite a few forums. But another assumption made through and through.
The statement made toward Poki was not a direct "OMG YOU ARE CORRUPT" statement, but merely an observation. Neither were any of the others? If you read my words at all I said I did not call anyone directly corrupt. Merely pointed out that doing so would be corrupt /abusive. I see nothing wrong with that.
Edit: But I see you state what I just said. My failed skim reading of your last post sorry ^^
Since I am growing tiresome of posting today I'll make it short. "exact measure of ethics." My exact measure of ethics are NOT far fetched but basic. You cannot say that these "Unique Punishments" follow any ethical routine where as most of my punishments are used everywhere even beyond RO. In some cases, even real life /hmm you going to dispute that?
Edit: You claim I am bashing, yet you were the one to throw the first stone? "Clearly you cannot comprehend" otherwise I was being quite detached from this conversation until you decided to make it personal.
So the moral of this story is...
As in every debate/argument/flamewar/whatever, each side has its pros and cons. Each person participating has his or her own point of view.
Yaaaaaaaay.
Just for the heck of it, I'll explain how my system of punishment works. It might clear up the fact that it may seem corrupt or fun for my part, but actually... it's the fun for the rest of the server as well.
It is not the player's responsibility to punish players. Using @Killable command for the purpose of teaching someone a lesson is abusive and need I say corrupt. Even IF the player in question was a frequent rule violator. This is what I'd define as a boast of power.
No, it's not the player's responsibility nor do they have to punish the players. It's a given option for the players to kill the certain player who has committed a devious act within the server that apparently has broken one of the rules stated in the server.
No, using the command @killable wasn't to let them learn from it. In fact, it's something that will make them think to themselves to why they had committed a crime in the server to begin with. They will have @killable on them until they state and apologize to what they have done, then may I only consider whether to remove the command or leave it there because it was a serious offence to the server.
This specific punishment is not to my enjoyment, but for the server to have fun collecting skulls of those who had broken the rules. Needless to say, I am not boasting my power and using this not to be corrupt but to "slightly" teach them a lesson but mainly to use the fact that they have violated a rule in the server so that other players may have a greater amount of fun within the server by hunting down those who are wanted.
Sure, it'll get annoying having to die from levelling, but if they truly wanted that to stop, they should have considered the consequences for doing such a devious thing. Besides, they can easily have the curse lifted from them just by giving a simple apology.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From what I see, Mewi clearly just wants to say that these "unique punishments" that many have suggested aren't that great to be used because of certain flaws within them. Only problem is that I don't like how no one says WHY they're wrong, but just repeatedly say that it's either a corrupt way, a way that shows your power, a way that is unfair, and so forth.
Sadly, I want to see more unique punishments, not people placing irrelevant comments within the topic about problems they have against each other or how they look at each other.
I personally gave up trying to tell Mewi how these suggestions are not corruptive nor abusive. Honestly, I stated it before that I don't really care if the player leaves because of these unique punishments. If they leave, it just means that we just lost a "bad person" that has played in the server. Now really, do I want my server to be infested with bad people? Yes, of course not. [insert giggle face here]
Aurora is doing the same in convincing Mewi, but it's seriously near impossible in changing one's perspective. Twas why I figured there's no point in prolonging the situation. In fact, I just thought about going straight up to explain how my way of punishing the players has nothing to do with corruption or abusing my powers.
EDIT: Oh flying donkeys... I just noticed that someone... just SOMEONE... is going to quote what I have just typed out, and nitpick certain flaws within my post D:<
The statement made toward Poki was not a direct "OMG YOU ARE CORRUPT" statement, but merely an observation. Neither were any of the others? If you read my words at all I said I did not call anyone directly corrupt. Merely pointed out that doing so would be corrupt /abusive. I see nothing wrong with that.
Actually, I've done this punishment on a server before... so technically... you are calling me corrupt and it really hurts, I'm seriously emotionally depressed now and I really need comfort.
Okay, so maybe not, but yes, you are calling me corrupt by stating the punishment itself is corrupt.
Wish Aurora hadn't left. Twas fun reading her comments because they're nearly the same thoughts in my head.
Quote from: Hutchy on Oct 17, 2008, 10:44 AM
So the moral of this story is...
As in every debate/argument/flamewar/whatever, each side has its pros and cons. Each person participating has his or her own point of view.
Yaaaaaaaay.
Nobody listens to me. :<
Oh sorry, I did read what you said, I just wanted to throw in defence to how my way of punishing players work, haha.
But yarrr! You be correct! The moral of this story between the epic battle of opinions! EPISODE 85!
Quote from: Hutchy on Oct 17, 2008, 11:38 AM
Quote from: Hutchy on Oct 17, 2008, 10:44 AM
So the moral of this story is...
As in every debate/argument/flamewar/whatever, each side has its pros and cons. Each person participating has his or her own point of view.
Yaaaaaaaay.
Nobody listens to me. :<
Cookies? You ish quote yourself =3 Flamewar ;o where dat? I dunno about pros, I only saw cons XD
Quote from: Poki on Oct 17, 2008, 11:43 AM
Oh sorry, I did read what you said, I just wanted to throw in defence to how my way of punishing players work, haha.
But yarrr! You be correct! The moral of this story between the epic battle of opinions! EPISODE 85!
I still don't like it ;p
I saw 3 unique punishments within this 6 and probably 7th page after this post.
And pros would be yourself, Mewi.
I still don't like it ;p
*heart rips and sheds tears* My emotional depress level has dropped 6x lower. I basically de-leveled.
Quote from: Poki on Oct 17, 2008, 11:48 AM
I saw 3 unique punishments within this 6 and probably 7th page after this post.
And pros would be yourself, Mewi.
I still don't like it ;p
*heart rips and sheds tears* My emotional depress level has dropped 6x lower. I basically de-leveled.
Oh noes don't die ToT
Mewi just posts here alot cause alot of people respond to Mewi? nyah?
Mebe bcuz Mewi is a vry famouxz perzon.
Quote from: Poki on Oct 17, 2008, 11:53 AM
Mebe bcuz Mewi is a vry famouxz perzon.
yay *furcoat* ewww O.O
OH! You know what would be an awesome way to punish someone? JAILING THEM! My dear flying dogs, why have I not thought about that?!
Quote from: Poki on Oct 17, 2008, 11:58 AM
OH! You know what would be an awesome way to punish someone? JAILING THEM! My dear flying dogs, why have I not thought about that?!
I know right?
Quote from: mickiedeez on Oct 16, 2008, 10:36 PM
Quote from: Auroraâ,,¢ on Oct 16, 2008, 01:00 PM
To be an administrator isn't necessarily a privilege when you're the one paying for it, honestly, which gives you the right to decide the punishments, how the punishments are administered and to what extent they are administered. Just because it might lag someone to the extent of having to exit the game, doesn't make it his intention. The only reason he incorporates such methods is to make it unenjoyable, not to purposely make it so their computer frizzes out. Again, if that happens, it's their own problem. If different and unusual, as already stated, is corrupt, then there are a lot of people that are "corrupt" in this world.
Also, being a player on a server is a privilege, not a right. An administrator has the right to take away said privilege upon any infractions towards the server, again, in anyway they decide when it comes to the severity of the act against the server. I also take being a GM very seriously, but again, my opinions are different from yours.
uhm this guy is clearly corrupt(the original poster).
Quote from: MrrgleCaek on Apr 21, 2008, 07:10 PM
This was about revenge on my part? o_o;
I thought it was just for fun =v, oh well, silly me. How many more things do corrupt GMs do? And...I can't comprehend about being serious for a private server and this whole "GM code" thing unless I missed a manual for knowing the GM code =v. People seem to use the word Corrupt alot nowadays *scratches chin*.
But alas, some seem to disapprove of me being cynical....I must be looking so terrible as a GM right now XD!
his unique punishments aren't for justice, they're apparently for fun......
btw which tarded necromancer resurrected this topic >_>
Quote from: mickiedeez on Oct 17, 2008, 04:29 PM
Quote from: mickiedeez on Oct 16, 2008, 10:36 PM
Quote from: Auroraâ,,¢ on Oct 16, 2008, 01:00 PM
To be an administrator isn't necessarily a privilege when you're the one paying for it, honestly, which gives you the right to decide the punishments, how the punishments are administered and to what extent they are administered. Just because it might lag someone to the extent of having to exit the game, doesn't make it his intention. The only reason he incorporates such methods is to make it unenjoyable, not to purposely make it so their computer frizzes out. Again, if that happens, it's their own problem. If different and unusual, as already stated, is corrupt, then there are a lot of people that are "corrupt" in this world.
Also, being a player on a server is a privilege, not a right. An administrator has the right to take away said privilege upon any infractions towards the server, again, in anyway they decide when it comes to the severity of the act against the server. I also take being a GM very seriously, but again, my opinions are different from yours.
uhm this guy is clearly corrupt(the original poster).
Quote from: MrrgleCaek on Apr 21, 2008, 07:10 PM
This was about revenge on my part? o_o;
I thought it was just for fun =v, oh well, silly me. How many more things do corrupt GMs do? And...I can't comprehend about being serious for a private server and this whole "GM code" thing unless I missed a manual for knowing the GM code =v. People seem to use the word Corrupt alot nowadays *scratches chin*.
But alas, some seem to disapprove of me being cynical....I must be looking so terrible as a GM right now XD!
his unique punishments aren't for justice, they're apparently for fun......
btw which tarded necromancer resurrected this topic >_>
Are you asking for who this "tarded necromancer" is? If so, it's Bleu.
Anymore irrelevant questions?
Quote from: Poki on Oct 17, 2008, 05:50 PM
Quote from: mickiedeez on Oct 17, 2008, 04:29 PM
Quote from: mickiedeez on Oct 16, 2008, 10:36 PM
Quote from: Auroraâ,,¢ on Oct 16, 2008, 01:00 PM
To be an administrator isn't necessarily a privilege when you're the one paying for it, honestly, which gives you the right to decide the punishments, how the punishments are administered and to what extent they are administered. Just because it might lag someone to the extent of having to exit the game, doesn't make it his intention. The only reason he incorporates such methods is to make it unenjoyable, not to purposely make it so their computer frizzes out. Again, if that happens, it's their own problem. If different and unusual, as already stated, is corrupt, then there are a lot of people that are "corrupt" in this world.
Also, being a player on a server is a privilege, not a right. An administrator has the right to take away said privilege upon any infractions towards the server, again, in anyway they decide when it comes to the severity of the act against the server. I also take being a GM very seriously, but again, my opinions are different from yours.
uhm this guy is clearly corrupt(the original poster).
Quote from: MrrgleCaek on Apr 21, 2008, 07:10 PM
This was about revenge on my part? o_o;
I thought it was just for fun =v, oh well, silly me. How many more things do corrupt GMs do? And...I can't comprehend about being serious for a private server and this whole "GM code" thing unless I missed a manual for knowing the GM code =v. People seem to use the word Corrupt alot nowadays *scratches chin*.
But alas, some seem to disapprove of me being cynical....I must be looking so terrible as a GM right now XD!
his unique punishments aren't for justice, they're apparently for fun......
btw which tarded necromancer resurrected this topic >_>
Are you asking for who this "tarded necromancer" is? If so, it's Bleu.
Anymore irrelevant questions?
Actually from memory I believe since there are so few topics in this section that the thread was only 4th from the top... So anyone could of easily bumped the thread. I certainly wouldn't call anyone here retarded ^o^
« Reply #56 on: Sep 26, 2008, 06:19 am » - Mewi
« Reply #57 on: Sep 26, 2008, 06:53 am » - Zairik
« Reply #58 on: Yesterday at 02:50 am » - bleu
« Reply #59 on: Yesterday at 03:16 am » - Hutchy
« Reply #60 on: Yesterday at 03:27 am » - Auroraâ,,¢
Quote from: Poki on Oct 17, 2008, 10:19 PM
« Reply #56 on: Sep 26, 2008, 06:19 am » - Mewi
« Reply #57 on: Sep 26, 2008, 06:53 am » - Zairik
« Reply #58 on: Yesterday at 02:50 am » - bleu
« Reply #59 on: Yesterday at 03:16 am » - Hutchy
« Reply #60 on: Yesterday at 03:27 am » - Auroraâ,,¢
That doesn't prove what position it was on the list of threads lol o.o
Oh, I don't look at what position it is on the list, I was looking at the most recent person who posted that brought it back up.
*cough* off topic
Quote from: Mewi on Sep 16, 2008, 05:05 PM
Quote from: Scars on Sep 16, 2008, 06:31 AM
I have the best punishment.
@addwarp to where it warps back to where the portal are,@recall the player in.
Then they repeatedly keep warping back to the spot, screen flashing.
Damage the player's computer and eyes, the character stuck until warp is removed.
Fun.
This measure is very abusive, this method is also a boast of power, it doesn't necessarily teach anyone a lesson but more so amuses the GM. A GM is not a GM for fun, or at least they should not be a GM for that reason. GMing is a serious job and should be treated as such.
Sure people say "It's just a game" but that doesn't mean that rules and ethics should not be followed.
-Works for me, it stop them braking the rules.
-What gives you the right to decide what is considered right and what is not or what is considered boast of power and what is not?
Sure I treat my servers seriously, but there are trashes who don't have self respect and brakes the rules/beg for items daily, annoy everyone else, donkey kissing, sucking up and all that s*** when warned, and are just being annoying, don't expect me to be nice to them or stay professional with them. I treat people base on the way they treat me, just being realistic really.
I still think hurting people's computer and eyes is uncalled for, unless they did something similar to someone else. :x But that's a whole other discussion.
Quote from: Scars on Oct 21, 2008, 06:47 AM
Quote from: Mewi on Sep 16, 2008, 05:05 PM
Quote from: Scars on Sep 16, 2008, 06:31 AM
I have the best punishment.
@addwarp to where it warps back to where the portal are,@recall the player in.
Then they repeatedly keep warping back to the spot, screen flashing.
Damage the player's computer and eyes, the character stuck until warp is removed.
Fun.
This measure is very abusive, this method is also a boast of power, it doesn't necessarily teach anyone a lesson but more so amuses the GM. A GM is not a GM for fun, or at least they should not be a GM for that reason. GMing is a serious job and should be treated as such.
Sure people say "It's just a game" but that doesn't mean that rules and ethics should not be followed.
-Works for me, it stop them braking the rules.
-What gives you the right to decide what is considered right and what is not or what is considered boast of power and what is not?
I never once said anyone HAD to follow my opinions, now did I? I am not attacking your way of life. But two wrongs do not make a right -.-
Oh my, hostility.
@Mewi
Oh so its your opinion, my bad cause to me it sounded more like your stating something,
if it's just your opinion then I have no problem.
Cheers.
Quote from: Scars on Oct 22, 2008, 05:06 PM
@Mewi
Oh so its your opinion, my bad cause to me it sounded more like your stating something,
if it's just your opinion then I have no problem.
Cheers.
Thats fine I guess. But I don't really understand why I have to state it's only my opinion when I'm typing it... so clearly it's going to be my opinion no matter what the case XD
*back on topic*
Well, we are implementing something on our server that's pretty mean...
We're making an guard NPC in the jail that kicks the player out of game if they don't "check in" with it every two minutes, thus making the accused remain active in game during he entire jail sentence. I think all of us have agreed that we'd limit the jail time an hour or two, and just do the accused a favor and ban them instead of giving them anything longer than that. :)
Luckily, our player base is pretty well behaved at the moment, but that may change when we open.
In my opinion, punishments are there for a reason. They're supposed to condition the individual by negative reinforcement to not do certain action(s). If that doesn't work, you have them leave, that's the most civil way of putting it.
QuoteThats fine I guess. But I don't really understand why I have to state it's only my opinion when I'm typing it... so clearly it's going to be my opinion no matter what the case XD
Oh cause there's a significant difference between stating and giving opinion.
At least to me.
I'm in agreement with Mewi here.
And about some of the punishments, I'm pretty sure they breach the law, lol. I don't know about your countries, but cyberbullying or cyberterrorism, as well as intention of causing harm to one's private property or personal health, is illegal in mine.
It doesn't matter if the offenders are jerks or break whatever virtual rules you impose in your own illegal private server (unless they cyberbully too), but in that case you're supposed to report it to the authorities straightaway, not retaliate illegally. However, technically I'm not sure whether you're protected by the law if you play a private server and receive damages while doing so, but chances are high if the damage incurred is large enough. (Like damaging one's eyesight, one's PC, or causing mental anguish/trauma, etc.)
And Aurora, I truly "LOL'ed" at your attempts to defend that particular punishment by saying it was not done intentionally, that if someone's computer frizzes it's their own fault even though you knew it might happen and still went ahead anyway. If something like that truly happened, the one who would win a lawsuit would be the person with the spoilt computer, not the offender.
I'm serious, you can't defend yourself in court by saying that "I was aware of the potential consequences of what my actions can cause, but because the consequences happen with relation to the opposite party's capacity and abilities, I went ahead with my actions anyway because my intention was not to cause injury or hurt; therefore I am free of fault." The law just doesn't work that way.
some of these make me laugh xD
Quote from: fluidin on Oct 27, 2008, 02:33 AM
damaging one's eyesight, one's PC, or causing mental anguish/trauma, etc.
THIS.
Lolz =P
lol my school has all these posters up about talking to someone if your being "cyberbullied"
they make a huge deal about this kinda stuff.....
Because it's starting to become a huge issue. People use the internet's anonymity as a shield and figure they can do as they please without consequence.
Quote from: Scars on Sep 16, 2008, 06:31 AM
I have the best punishment.
@addwarp to where it warps back to where the portal are,@recall the player in.
Then they repeatedly keep warping back to the spot, screen flashing.
Damage the player's computer and eyes, the character stuck until warp is removed.
Fun.
I hope someone with photosensitive epilepsy kicks your donkey.
(http://ratemyserver.net/forum/Themes/default/images/warnwarn.gif)
Uncalled for, insulting, and a major attempt to provoke a fight, don't do it again, the next warn will put you on mod status.
Quote from: Hutchy on Oct 27, 2008, 08:50 PM
Because it's starting to become a huge issue. People use the internet's anonymity as a shield and figure they can do as they please without consequence.
eh my school does the assembles where they talk about it, and what you can do (most of which involves calling the police)
but to be honest, lots of people actually do call the police, as childish as it may sound lots of people do take that kind of stuff as being extremely offensive, and its not like it just fades out and gets ignored, most of the time you do hear lots about it within the school
to some its a joke, to others things go as far as jail time (pretty rare but does happen) its all about the who, and the what.... it makes me ask how horrible are humans really?
we have those assemblies on cyber bullying all the time now. they apparently even teach it to primary schoolers. man i didnt get the internet till i was in high school and i didnt get a mobile until i was in 9th grade. and now six year olds are getting phones, looking at bad stuff on the internet and cyberbullying each other @.@
Cyberbullying is fun. I'm a cyberpunk. So bad-donkey. (EDIT: Oh, my "butt" word got filtered in to donkey... close enough.)
I guess it's serious to little kids... that's why children should be banned from the intarweb. (under the age of 90)
Quote from: Hutchy on Oct 27, 2008, 10:04 AM
Quote from: fluidin on Oct 27, 2008, 02:33 AM
damaging one's eyesight, one's PC, or causing mental anguish/trauma, etc.
THIS.
Is definitely unique. :P
Well, as I said earlier, the internet offers anonymity, and a lot of people think that there's no way to figure out who they are. By that logic, everyone thinks they're free from any repercussions they would face if they acted similarly to someone's face.
This is especially true in online games, though. Hiding behind their character sprite, tons of people figure that they can harass people and whatnot. It may seem childish to complain about it, but when you really think about what people have used the internet to do to other people in the past (stalking, sexual harassment, harassment in general, etc etc) it's not. It just depends what you're complaining about, I guess.
That said, "That guy KSed my Anubis" is not a valid reason to call the police. ^^;
But I thought that these unique punishments were for those who seriously broke the rules. Not lame rules like ksing.
But of course, some of the punishments take things a bit too far. -coughs- not mine though.
x3
Definition of the line between "a joke" and an offense on the internet varies too much from person to person. In real life, the police is the one who gets the job to make the call in most of these cases. For RO context though, it's the GM team's job to make the call, and GMs ought to be fully prepared to be insulted by comments like "GMs so strict they can't take a joke" and other forms of mockery. As much as players will always whine since you can't please everyone, as long as you're consistent in your judgment of classifying when is a case only a joke or when is it an offense, players generally seem to whine but will accept it.
When players accept the rules, then generally they accept the rules to be fair, and *usually* the punishment is accepted as well by that point; unique or not. Once the community is on your side supporting the GMs instead of the person being punished, there's usually little problems.
I dont know if this was said or not but i know on our server there is No punishment dealt out that isn't agreed upon all of the GMs...
Its the easiest way to keep people from being bias.
Quote from: Joshy_1289 on Oct 28, 2008, 05:47 PM
I dont know if this was said or not but i know on our server there is No punishment dealt out that isn't agreed upon all of the GMs...
Its the easiest way to keep people from being bias.
Well I think you can't really do that, for example bots... They need to be banned on spot, else leaving them around can cause damage to the server. Other things such as mass spammers/rule violators/bug exploiters.
I'd say a staff meeting on how to deal with certain members that are acting/are like/being trolls would be a good idea this way the whole staff can back up the decision to remove that person from the server.
Having a discipline code actually makes things a lot easier in terms of punishments and consistency.
Ok Maybe i should go into more detail... When i posted last, I was in a hurry.
I should rephrase.
Bots are a given insta ban! Its in the rules.
Spammers and harassment cases are dealt with a mute and more mutes and maybe a jail if it gets to bad, until majority of the staff can decide on a punishment suitable. We currently have 8 staff, 6 of which are on every single day. We have all the phone numbers of ever staff who say call whenever. We usually take votes on everything.
Say Johnny has 3 mutes and a Jail, and i bring to there attention "Hey He has been having problems lately" They say l copy the punishment logs to a thread post it and have a poll a punishment. The Poll would probably stay up for a few hours, leaving time for about 5 of the active staff to vote. More than plenty to take action.
There are some cases where we get busy, and aren't online. We suggest them to call or try to delay the punishment...
There is alot of ways to provide punishment that will leave the member coming back and apologizing and not being angry. They understand the punishment, they know there faults on the matter and they correct them. I know not all the members will be like this but most will and have. Just today we had a Spammer yelling at another player due to a problem unknown in town and i took him aside and talked to him. Told him he could take else where, if he had a problem to let us know and handle it. He apologized to me and to the player and went on acting as if nothing had happen. Drama and angry players are generally easy to avoid if you dont act like an idiot punishing people and if you don't talk to other players about.
Quote from: Joshy_1289 on Oct 31, 2008, 10:37 AM
Ok Maybe i should go into more detail... When i posted last, I was in a hurry.
I should rephrase.
Bots are a given insta ban! Its in the rules.
Spammers and harassment cases are dealt with a mute and more mutes and maybe a jail if it gets to bad, until majority of the staff can decide on a punishment suitable. We currently have 8 staff, 6 of which are on every single day. We have all the phone numbers of ever staff who say call whenever. We usually take votes on everything.
Say Johnny has 3 mutes and a Jail, and i bring to there attention "Hey He has been having problems lately" They say l copy the punishment logs to a thread post it and have a poll a punishment. The Poll would probably stay up for a few hours, leaving time for about 5 of the active staff to vote. More than plenty to take action.
There are some cases where we get busy, and aren't online. We suggest them to call or try to delay the punishment...
There is alot of ways to provide punishment that will leave the member coming back and apologizing and not being angry. They understand the punishment, they know there faults on the matter and they correct them. I know not all the members will be like this but most will and have. Just today we had a Spammer yelling at another player due to a problem unknown in town and i took him aside and talked to him. Told him he could take else where, if he had a problem to let us know and handle it. He apologized to me and to the player and went on acting as if nothing had happen. Drama and angry players are generally easy to avoid if you dont act like an idiot punishing people and if you don't talk to other players about.
Well talking to the other players about it can be very unprofessional. Just remember when you run into a troll they'll be like "yes sir, yes mam" but the moment you aren't around they'll just continue to do it... so you have to give punishment then they raise the level of rule violation to a whole new level... then a higher level then an even higher higher level until you are left with nothing but the option to ban them.
Leaving them around to wait for a vote from staff while they are throwing a hissy fit and spamming obscenities causing a huge public scene and dodging your mutes/signing on other accounts will cause severe damage to the server.
Where are the unique punishments?!
All I see in these recent posts are Common and Formal punishments!
Ed-it: Render rule-breakers items and stats useless. For example, they think they're free to go when you don't do anything after given a ban. They have elite equips, items and good stats. But when they get into PvP or WoE, they're hits deals very low damage and would mostly miss. After a few week or so, give them back their dignity :D
P.S: They might spend their zeny and others to change their builds but that's punishment for rule-breaking too ;)
Quote from: Poki on Oct 17, 2008, 05:50 PM
Quote from: mickiedeez on Oct 17, 2008, 04:29 PM
Quote from: mickiedeez on Oct 16, 2008, 10:36 PM
Quote from: Auroraâ,,¢ on Oct 16, 2008, 01:00 PM
To be an administrator isn't necessarily a privilege when you're the one paying for it, honestly, which gives you the right to decide the punishments, how the punishments are administered and to what extent they are administered. Just because it might lag someone to the extent of having to exit the game, doesn't make it his intention. The only reason he incorporates such methods is to make it unenjoyable, not to purposely make it so their computer frizzes out. Again, if that happens, it's their own problem. If different and unusual, as already stated, is corrupt, then there are a lot of people that are "corrupt" in this world.
Also, being a player on a server is a privilege, not a right. An administrator has the right to take away said privilege upon any infractions towards the server, again, in anyway they decide when it comes to the severity of the act against the server. I also take being a GM very seriously, but again, my opinions are different from yours.
uhm this guy is clearly corrupt(the original poster).
Quote from: MrrgleCaek on Apr 21, 2008, 07:10 PM
This was about revenge on my part? o_o;
I thought it was just for fun =v, oh well, silly me. How many more things do corrupt GMs do? And...I can't comprehend about being serious for a private server and this whole "GM code" thing unless I missed a manual for knowing the GM code =v. People seem to use the word Corrupt alot nowadays *scratches chin*.
But alas, some seem to disapprove of me being cynical....I must be looking so terrible as a GM right now XD!
his unique punishments aren't for justice, they're apparently for fun......
btw which tarded necromancer resurrected this topic >_>
Are you asking for who this "tarded necromancer" is? If so, it's Bleu.
Anymore irrelevant questions?
Wheres the cheese?
.....*uses necromancy*
Lol.
Warp them to a map that has a large body of water and use Waterball on them. >_> Never-ending-ness.
Quote from: vividcolors on Jan 25, 2009, 09:22 PM
Lol.
Warp them to a map that has a large body of water and use Waterball on them. >_> Never-ending-ness.
That's abuse if anything.
Quote from: vividcolors on Jan 25, 2009, 09:22 PM
Lol.
Warp them to a map that has a large body of water and use Waterball on them. >_> Never-ending-ness.
Then they'd die and re-spawn and run happily ever after in the fields outside of prontera.
Quote from: Loki on Oct 31, 2008, 10:50 PM
Where are the unique punishments?!
All I see in these recent posts are Common and Formal punishments!
I'd like to call them... "Common Sense" punishments ^.~