TalonRO (X5 X5 X3) to (X8 X8 X3)

bleu · Jun 18, 2009, 07:45 AM

Just for the record, I have not been banned or anything of that sort. My review of TalonRO is neither good or bad; just my honest opinion of the server, its GMs and its community.

Server 10/10

It's quite stable and available most of the time. Not much lag or other technical problems.

Friendliness 7/10

They are reasonably friendly. There are many Guild Leaders and veteran players who occasionally lend out gears to help new players. Of course, some never got them back (that's another story). If you ask a question on !main, you will be sure to get a response. Because TalonRO is a relatively old server, many players have already established strong bonds; unconsciously creating cliques. It doesn't help that most players are only active for WOE, thus you don't really have an opportunity to get to know them. If they are online outside of WOE hours, they are mainly in PVP or doing something by themselves (solo). Most players don't party often if at all- who needs to party when you have Instant Cast, abnormally high HP, magic immunity and unlimited SP?

Eventfulness 10/10

Without a doubt, it's one of the most Eventful server around. There's always some Events going on - Weekly Screenshot Events, Daily Snapshot Events, Hugel Monster Races, Bingo, Poring Catcher(new), GM Challenge(new), Battleground(open for testing), Daily GM spawning monsters/invasion, Monster of the Week, Festive Events even when the server goes offline, an event will be held to guess the time the server will be back on again. Festive Events such as Halloween 2008 and Christmas 2008 were really good and high quality. We had 4/5 concurrent mini events- you can kill Event Monsters and get goodies and experience, you can participate in Quiz/Riddles (very popular), you can do quests (making an Event hat) or you can engage Event MVPs. There's something for everybody.

Halloween Event 2008

A more recent event of GMs spawning monsters

Game Masters 7/10
They are very active - most are online everyday and can be easily contacted in game or on forum. They are friendly enough. They seem very open to suggestions and ideas from players and appears to have a genuine passion for the server. However, due to past actions or inactions, many players are generally not very trusting of their GMs. Having said that - They are the Obamas... trying to clean up a mess left by their predecessors. Much have been done but it just seems that there's so many more things that need to be addressed before we can see tangible results. They are new at being GMs, and do occasionally make mistakes but they are fast learners. I would still consider them the best team to take us to the promised land; a land flowing with milk and honey.

Economy 3/10

There's not much trading. The list of item you can farm and vend to make a decent profit is very limited. Most of the alchemist ingredients are available through NPC. The older players are generally very wealthy with multiple Godly Items, MVP cards, Lord Kaho Horns, etc... and the new player are very poor. In a recent effort to bridge the gap, a new Reward Points system has been introduced where all players can accumulate points via mini games or events and exchange them for Talon Coins; which hopefully will allow new players a chance to afford MVP cards and better gears. The most common way of making zeny is mobbing at Nifheilm and then overcharging the loots or collecting Sapphires from mobsters at Comodo beach.

Guild Competition 7/10

There are two category of WOE. Normal WOE - everything goes and the Vanilla WOE, which is a restricted WOE - no MVP cards, no white slims, no Lord Kaho's Horn, no Godly Items, etc. Saturday WOE 1.0 is most popular. In a good Saturday WOE, you can expect to see 6+ guilds battling it out with about 100 players (including duel clienting). However, the story is quite the opposite for WOE Second Edition and Wed WOE 1.0.

Class Balance 1/10

Although not encouraged, but you can openly buy characters/accounts. A Guard[1] cost about 500k. A level 9X Trans will set you back around 10m. It may even be cheaper to buy a character compared to buying leech or leveling yourself. It's hard to find the word "Balance" in TalonRO when an Instant Cast Professor WaterBalls you or a Soul Linker has the ability to autocast Frost Joke, Full Strip and Soul Breaker or when a Whitesmith fly to his opponent using Charge Attack and begin spamming Cart Termination with a 3 slotted Mjolnir at 190ASPD. TalonRO has many custom cards, effects and gears (especially MVP cards and Godly Items). There's constant debate on this matter, everyone just agree to disagree on how best to resolve the issue.

SilverStream~ · Jun 19, 2009, 07:46 PM

If you choose to read this post, keep in mind that I wrote it to let out steam after 5ish months of bickering.
It pulls out most of the negative sides of TalonRO, while some are true, some are also very exaggerated.

Very, very long negative talkabout post.

You forgot to mention that the community is comprised of a tight knitted bunch of players that have been there since the split with animaro, and if anyone does anything offensive like exessive harassment towards a player, they will never get banned for it only warned.

The gm team never promotes talonro, the only one who does anything is DeePee, and he's been doing little lately.

Because the community is such a small player count, and they are all friends somehow, new players find it very hard to join, trying to join is like trying to get into an orange while someone spits in your eyes and pokes you with sticks.

Because of their time together, they have developed an insane offensive humor, which is very rude, they make fun of basicly everything and everyone, they do it together with the gm team who also laughs at whatever they are laughing at, and it's very difficult for new players to speak up because everything that is not done or said along their thinking or done according to how they would have done it is shot down and actually mocked to an extent where most players would just give up after one post or two, or none at all after they read some of the posts on the forum.

The forum is practically dead, there are a maximum of 15 posters, you have 30 guests online mostly because people are afraid to say anything in fear of getting mocked/made fun of, they are often only online to check for updates from the gm's, read the harsh gossip that roams, and while the forums are almost dead the little circle of thight knitted people continue to post and make their jokes.

If someone(ie; me), posts in their new suggestion forum section, which is basicly a suggestion board where you can suggest anything regarding the name TalonRO, then that is often mocked, it's not taken seriously, they laugh at it/make fun, but sometimes, rarely, if you post enough, clarify etc, then they will go "hm, good thinking, needs changing though".

Ingame there is nothing to do, except the elitist GM Challenge Event that goes on for every other hour or so. It's basicly the endless tower with custom mvps and custom floors. Since most of the members of talonro own multiple sqi items each, then it's usually just for them to go there and kill stuff, but since it's so hard and they all only pvp/woe/soloMvp's then they know less then the average person about pvm. They complain and ask for a nerf, and if they cant do it the gm's will nerf the event and they can do it.

They recently put in two members from the popular friend circle of tro(the tight knitted ones, often referred to as "the majority of the server), one called macabre, who does a good job at gm'ing, since he tries to keep it as gming and not "I am a GM I can talk crap and not care about s***". The second one is jermum, which is influenced heavily by the friend circle and her paramour which was a former gm, but no one on the gm team liked said person, so he was kicked off the team. This person also steals various items and exploits situations where he can get ahold of items, is insanely rude towards most people while laughing it off with his friends and yet.. he has never been banned. On with jermum. She is somewhat on/off when it comes to gming, the fact that she laughis at things with her friends and neglects that they often offend someone when doing it, is to her irrelevant.

I'd like to clarify something, I am not banned, I am not in any way prohibited from using the platforms the gm's at talonro offers.
I joined back in the aro days, and have tried out both aro and tro. tRO is comprised of the black sheeps of animaro, which makes it very hard for them to change their image.

Lately, during xmas I decided to try and help the server out by advertising, telling people about the server and attemping to improve the game/server/community.
I've worked as a high gm on some servers, doing support tickets etc, and as a community moderator, meaning I had controll over the bad trolls and flamers etc. I don't really like forums anymore because of it.

I recently started to help them, or try to. The problem is that since tro is so tightknitted, they are reluctant to giving in on things to change, that will with almost certainty give them more players.
After the aro split they did not change anything of the server, and have had two capital city's so far. It's been two years since that and they still have it. Nothing has been done. A very stupid move, and it's suprising that the server has managed to stay alive so long.

The server owner is never there. His name is BlackTalon, and is supposed to be the face of TalonRO. The server could just as good be called "BoreasRO", or something like that.
Just being there, spending maybe 30 minutes of his life each week, just to let people know you are there encourages people to play, and gives them faith that the gm team is working on whatever.

Yet he's never there. Also I learned last week that Gm Boreas is animaro's BlackHunter, the one who fixed all those sqi lists and woe castle ratings in anima. I don't know much about the other gm's, so I can't say much about them.

This post seems to never end does it =\

Continuing on; This post is almost like a rant, yes. It kind of is. Because I have tried for almost 5 months now to get them to realise that they have to change their image, in order to raise their player count. Yet no one has grasped the fact that they are a bad server, and their overall image sucks.

A few days ago, I posted a few things in that new suggestion board, and that started to get things going. Good I thought, I'll continue now, since I've got things rolling.
Then I get a friend to make me a signature, which was 8000pixels wide. Kinda "HUGE" apparently, while it was only 300 kb, and some of the users have 1 mb gif animations in their signature. It caught some user's eye, and he had to post about it in the new suggestion board.

I then posted a retaliation against it, because I thought that it was not too huge, since I had thought about it before I put it as my signature there, and tested it on my tv screen, my small netbook, my normal laptop, my 19" stationary, and my huge stationary with a 22" and a 26". This caught their attention and they started mocking it.
Apparently because I said that I had tested it on all these devices they thought I was bragging, while I never even thought about that at all. They continued to post against me and my statements, and more of their friends started to join in.

Now. I can take offensive language, rude behaviour and obnoxious people to a certain extent.

But I am not bulletproof, and I snapped, after 5 months of subtle and sometimes openly hate spread across the world through the internet I snapped. I cannot take their behaviour anymore.

Someone who has alot of ideas, someone who is helpful to their few new players, someone who is a "puller"(meaning pulls the community and the progress of that in a direction in order to create something, and make it happen), someone who really thought this could be changed into a better server, and worked for it, got shit thrown in her face.

I then gave up my account info, where they then ravaged it and actually totally raped it, until a few of the forum members realised that what they were doing was wrong, and said that "thats not cool.." and the likes.

Yet no one got muted, banned, temp banned, or warned. For anything. I act as a bitch when people throw things in my face, and in that way you can say I was being obnoxious and rude towards them, but it was sure as hell with reason.

After that they started roaming through my account, which no one had changed the password on until one member did, but changed it back again, and going through my pm's, where one user discovered that my "brother" is my friend which we made a prank out of to say we were brother and sister, since we live in the same house. This was a big nono and apparent hoax from their side, and they thought that we were only one person, since we never really played together or forumed at the same time.

Prejudice to the max really.

Going on!

TalonRO is a server you do not want to play at.

I'm serious.

Until they change their apperance and community image/behaviour, you do not even want to register there.
They are rude, offensive, elitist, the gap between rich and poor is so huge that without the vanilla woe/pvp they have the server would be at the bottom low of the lowrate listings, the community has so many superquest items from the intertrading with anthemo(right after the split), and it's amazing how they claim to change things to get new players, when they really neglect them.

New players are often rejected, not talked to, not helped, veterans run the show, if you don't have the gear you're nothing etc.

No new players and no economy(yeah there's no econ either. It's mostly trading so you're kind of lucky if you get zeny), leads to a stand still in the ingame community.
The only thing to do for new players, is the vanilla woe, the poring catch, the newly created beta/whatever battlegrounds, and normal playing.

But you do not want to play there. The only reason I'm still there now, is because I got 100$ in donations there for my birthday, and I donated some there later because of times I thought it was fun.

It is not fun.

It is an elitist playground, almost like highschool. You do not want to go there until you see drastic change. Go to another server, like HeRO, DestinaRO, or even AnthemRO. They are 300% better in community, player relations, player count, items, partying, guilds, competition etc.

If you read all of this, I appreciate it, and I hope I enlightened some of you, because I have been getting emails on how various servers are like, incuding TalonRO.

I might write another one of these..posts/rants/dictations later on another server(s), but not sure.
This post might get moved to hall of shame, or something like that. But actually if you look closely it's a very indepth review over the bad things that make talonro what it is. The good things have already been described in Bleu's thread review.

Thank you for reading, SilverStream

[close]

Zone · Jun 20, 2009, 03:40 AM

This isn't my place to voice my opinion on this server, but I went back to it after the Anima split, and after the eAthena conversion, and I didn't like it.
I don't remember exactly what it was that I didn't like, but it just gave me a sour taste in my mouth.
Feel free to delete this if you feel it should be.

DeePee · Jun 20, 2009, 01:01 PM

@ Bleu

Thanks for the honest review. The points you are talking about indeed require more work and we are doing our best to improve the server. The economy indeed still is a bit of a difficult issue. With the server being alive for many years and descending from a server with a large playerbase, an economy will mostly become an issue. A lot of the server's features are based on a system that no longer exists.

Like you already pointed out, we are working on multiple ways to make things more accessible for newer players. The Reward System is a step in the right direction and we are still far from done with that, so more features are always in the making. Slowly it seems to be paying off, which is a good thing. I see quite some newer players who are making use of this and closing the gap pretty well.

Then there is of course Vanilla WoE/PvP, which created a new market for "normal" gears and new farmable items such as Cakes. Condensed White Potions ingredients are no longer all being sold in the Alchemist NPC anymore. Same goes for Glistening Coat ingredients. Both of these changes are a good thing and if I recall correctly you were one of the players who suggested this.

New markets are being created lately (as shown above), which of course take some time to actually get rolling, but I'm quite confident they are a good thing.

Then for the issues on "Class Balance." We are indeed not forbidding account sales, as it's simply impossible to keep track of it. Forbidding it would be highly subjective as we simply cannot know about every deal that players make outside of the game. Your example of a Level 9x trans for 10 million zeny, however, is a bit exaggerated. Looking through the forum I mostly see them going for 25-30, if at all.

Now for the classes themselves. Personally I dislike the availability of Super Quest Items, but that is something that was created in the early Anima timeframe. Removing them is obviously not an option, so we are working on renewing them, making them something quite different. That said, I think a score of '1' is an exceedingly unfair evaluation; the arguments you present don't even question why those things are unbalanced. The dynamics of the endgame are quite different from that of standard RO, yet that doesn't automatically imply a complete and total lack of balance (as your score seems to claim), especially with the presence of a vanilla option without aforementioned features. There is no major shortage of any particular class in unrestricted WoE, although the tactics for it vary greatly with those for vanilla. I'm not sure how you arrived at your score, here.

@ SilverStream

Reply to SilverStream's post

Oof, where to even start on this one. Let's begin with your community issues.

Our community is indeed small, but that isn't necessarily a bad thing. The group of "old" players isn't as big anymore as you are making it seem. There are a lot of newer players with guilds on the server, such as Payon Army, GoD, AoD, etc, which mostly consist of newer players and are actively recruiting.

Your issues with the community have been going on for a while. You have to understand though, that every community out there will bounce back when provoked, which is exactly what you have been doing.

Sure, some things went overboard and people have been punished for it. However, we do not like to ban people unless it's absolutely necessary, which it hasn't been thusfar. There are always people who like or dislike you, but that is absolutely no reason to punish them for it.

Just because not everyone agrees with the suggestions you made doesn't mean that they are mocking you or harassing you. A quick look at your topic about the Second Capital is a good example of this. Some people are making skeptical replies and you immediately jump on it, accusing them of flaming and mockery, which was absolutely not true. If you do not want people to reply in a harsh way, then do not provoke them. That's how it works anywhere.

A good example is you dropping your Holy Dagger in the GM Challenge. We returned the dagger and punished the person who took it. There is absolutely no reason for us to give out names, especially for a small issue. It will only result in flames, which you had proven perfectly by accusing the wrong person in public of stealing your dagger, which went on for days.
Actions exactly like this make a person less favorable in a community and at some point people will not take your opinion seriously anymore, which may result in skeptical replies.

You say that your suggestions on the forum are not taken seriously. This is quite wrong. Just because some people reply unfavorably on your suggestion and do not agree to everything about it, doesn't mean it's not taken seriously. Your suggestion about the Second Capital has been quite a good discussion and we have already taken some things out of it to work on. This however doesn't happen within a few days. The suggestion was made barely 4 days ago and already we've had a 3-page discussion about the matter.

Point of the matter: do not provoke people and they will leave you alone and just because people do not agree with you it does not mean they are mocking you.

Now for some other issues. You mention promoting the server and only me being the one who does -anything- about it. Just because something is not always visible by players does not mean nothing is done about it. There are quite some big projects behind the scenes that we have spent many hours of work on, which should help promoting the server. But just like with the Second Capital issue, these things are not something that can be done within days. It takes time to think things up and even more time to execute them. It's actually one of the four main pillars of our recently-developed strategic mission.

Then for your ingame issues. The GM Challenge indeed is a highly challenging (what's in a name?) event, which was intentionally made to be the top-notch PvM experience. Teamplay and PvM skills are absolutely required for it and honestly...I have yet to see any of this, even for the parties that barely succeeded. Some people may complain, but we have no intention of nerfing it as it's just fine. Some of the levels might even need a slight boost. Each MVP has its unique strategy of killing, which simply takes time to figure out. Same goes for an MVP such as Beelzebub. I remember the first parties there being 30 players and still failing. Now there are parties of less than 10 who kill it quite often.

As for your problems with some of our GMs, that's yet another personal issue. Just because you don't like a certain GM doesn't mean they aren't doing their job. We had open recruitments and everyone was able to apply. Based on people's application, we invited 7 people for a 2-hour interview. Popularity or being a "friend" had nothing to do with it. Heck, we even almost hired a player who only played the server for a few weeks, based on the application and interview.

About Black Talon, the server owner. He indeed isn't very active in the server, but I really do not see how this is an issue, at all. Just because he started the server and part of his name is in the server name does not mean he should be an active GM. He handles the server bills and does some other behind-the-scenes work, which is good enough for me. The GM team has all the tools they need to manage the server, which is just fine.

If there are new features you'd like to see on the server for newer players, go ahead and make suggestions. Not every player and not every GM might agree with everything, but I can assure you that we always look at every suggestion made and consider the possibility of adding it or not.

[close]

@ Zone

Your comment is mostly irrelevant as you stated the last time you tried us was over a year ago. A lot has improved ever since (the eA switch was only the start).

LemonCrosswalk · Jun 20, 2009, 02:42 PM

Can someone give me the tl;dr version?

Green · Jun 20, 2009, 02:44 PM

Of whose post?

Hutchy · Jun 20, 2009, 03:07 PM

Tl:dr? Here it is:
BAWWWWWWW.

Edit: I quite appreciate DeePee not completely flipping out and going into a vulgar, illiterate rage like some admins/GMs have a tendency to do when under fire. I was pleasantly surprised.

LemonCrosswalk · Jun 20, 2009, 03:34 PM

Quote from: Green on Jun 20, 2009, 02:44 PM
Of whose post?

Everyone's but Zone's. I can read his rather well.

SilverStream~ · Jun 20, 2009, 05:18 PM

In the spoiler tag is the response to DeePee's post, and it was also written while I was lightheaded from the extensive talkabout post I had made, because I was still angry.
When you write about something and it is negative, you tend to become very irritated yourself because you put yourself in that position you were in those days/weeks/months ago.

Don't take this too seriously if you read it.

Comment/post @DeePee

@DeePee

You bring out good facts which I have taken very litteraly, yes. But prejudice comes after a while with the same bad actions done over and over.

I remember coming back to talonro after a year, made a new account and started playing, hoping it was a better server then what animaro had been, since I had read alot about the whole thing. I went there and it was really worse then animaro, in most perspectives, this left a mark, and now in december the same thing happened, and the server left a bad impression on me, and also other new players.
So me being defensive on suggestions I have is because of events that have occurred earlier.

For the dagger issue, boreas told me on msn when I talked to him about something(not the dagger), and I was not suprised of who it was really, but the fact that I had been given false information by some players on the server, and even a screenshot of someone trading the dagger moments after the incident of the lag-dropping made it very hard to believe that the person who I got to know that took it, didn't take it. But in the end, it didn't suprise me that the person was not banned for more then three days. Maybe a litte considering that the person had done stuff like that earlier and not gotten banned for it.

On the advertisment part, I have not seen much advertising in the two years talonro has been out in the server lists. I went to tro in december because a friend started to play there, and I thought it would be nice to start playing and developing the community so that more players join, and creating another great server.
The behind the scenes things that are being done, must be very behind the scenes. Because if no one knows about it, then how can it be told to others? The worst thing someone can do is to advertise their product in secret, because few know of it, and the word of it is not spread. Maybe not the worst, but very close atleast.

The new players in the server are mostly speaking other languages then english, so I suspect all the tro advertisment is done in the philippines, if at all. The forum is mainly english speaking and there have been like.. 3 new semi active members who use it and post there. Ingame there community of tagalog speaking have increased, along with some spanish speaking/italian, but these numbers are in the 3's and 5's, at most.

I'll skip some back and forth here, atm to black talon. He is not showing the players that he is there. If you go to a server, and you hear that the main admin/owner isn't there, and haven't made a post in like, a year, then you get the feeling the server is dead. You do not get the feeling or sensation that the server is super awesome and the best of the best when you hear the owner is almost gone.
Hearing that he does behind the scenes work, and works on it now and then, or more accurately, makes the big yes or no decicions, then you get the feeling that the gm team is covering for something.

The GMC(Gm challence) is yes, for the best of the best, but seeing that the best of the best complain saying that they cant do it, shows that they are very crybaby-ish, and will cry and hit people if they don't get what they want, and don't really think much about how to do it another way.

Skipping some back, I provoked the community when I presented the suggestions and changes I felt were neccesary in order to get more players, and that is going to be taken as a bad thing by the community. But when even the gm team do not realise that they are doing something wrong, or not right, and do not want to change then there's something wrong. From talonro opened and until now, it's been two-ish years of little happening. The players don't take part and try to develop the server, the gm team does their thing, but it's mostly for the already elitist players(not thinking about vanilla, which was suggested by one of the few members that actually did something for the better of the server). The fact that I gave an effort and made some gears going is saying that this should have been done earlier, and not now. Saying that you have been working on getting more players, when the player base has been going up to 200, with around 100 venders, and stayed that way you're not really doing anything to promote or get more players. You're just trying to keep the ones you have if you have that many for two years.

Skipping forward, The gm issue, I feel that it is wrong to hire someone who might technically do a good job, but in the end only feed information and give off a currupted look by acting obnoxious and two sided. For instance, when the gm tryne is gm tryne, gm tryne is a half good moderator. When gm tryne is not gm tryne, but on her normal account, she is often rude, makes jokes about penises and the likes, laughs and spams, and helps out here and there, but mostly just spams and "has fun".

If you are hired as a gm, then you are a gm fulltime. You can't just switch back to your old self and mess around and not take action on anything, and let things slide. I told some of the new players that the user jermum was gm tryne, and they were going o.O because the two were so different. Gm tryne was/is a gm that will follow the rules to some extent and let alot of things slide, but that is the gm person that user is. Jermum is a rulebreaker/bender that often spams in the @main chat of the server, making alot of people turn off their @main chat and says alot of offensive things that gm tryne would not say, and encourage others not to say.

As I said, if you are a gm, you are a gm all the time, until you leave the position as a gm, or get fired. Not saying you have to be on the gm user all the time, but if you are on your normal player account, you are still a gm, and should act accordingly. Not switch between being police and being crook.

I had to take a break from writing, we are having people over.

I'd like to get back to the community, since the loudest people are often those who have the biggest impact on first impressions, and they leave marks on others with their behaviour.

When suggesting something at talonro, it is often those who hog the forum and spam the most that are the first to reply. Ignoring them is like trying to ignore someone waving a cake in your face while playing las ketchup on a mobile dancing and jumping while you try to hold a speech about world peace.
The serious discussion comes up first after a while, and if often met with no's and "this is why it sucks", and some good arguments or ideas on improving the suggestion. Because those few spammers come off so strong and offensive your natural reaction is to retaliate against it, because the spammers are often in much bigger numbers then you, and will back eachother up, then get more "backup", and it ends into a discussion about something totally unrelevant which makes the suggestion spam, and it's junked.

Changing people is hard, but when they realise themselves that they way they act and the way they do things is perhaps not the best, they start changing for the better often.
With the case of the rant I made because most of the community was pushing my suggestions down and acting like pricks because I tried to make a difference, I wrote it because I was tired of the constant bickering and poking at whatever I said or suggested.

People get tired of other people now and then, and yes community issues are because of two parts going against eachother, and one part being larger then the other and pushes the opposing part down, when the opposing part is trying to do something useful.

I have seen very, very few suggestions on things to improve on, or things to do from the users of talonro. Mostly it has been laughing in the msn chatrooms the users create, and the use of the irc channel to spam and laugh at other people.

I've said this before; If someone tries to help, and get s*** thrown in their face then they wouldnt like it. The way the help was presented in may have been "way wrong" but in the end the person is only trying to help. Instead of being super rude and very ignorant of the fact that help/idea building is being offered, the players/users should help instead of spam things down.

I think it's very stupid of the users to push down on another user because of the ideas or suggestions one presents.
Not once did I recieve a pm saying or telling me in a good matter that the way I presented things in was wrong according to what the players liked.

The only one who tried something like that was z3igarnik, who pm'ed me so after being highly rude towards my discussion with some of the other members, and it seemed like she was "summoned" only to push what I said further down. It is like the main core of talonro consists of people trying to bring others down because of the way they are. And the pm I got was not that I should present my suggestions in a more humble matter(because the tro people like to think they are kings and queens), but that I should stop suggestion and let the gm's do their job instead of pushing on certain matters, and if I couldnt do that I should leave, among other things.

Okay this is somewhat derailing. What I am trying to say is that the talonro people are not people who like to help. They like to get and use, without giving. They will hold a reasonable conversation when the issue is something that concerns them and their game/gameplay, but if it is about getting more players to the server, and focusing more on reducing the rich/poor gap then they are not too keen on that.

I have atleast managed to push the server slightly, and often reminders and notes about what to do, what to possibly do are the things that get work done.

If your boss at your work didn't remind his workers now and then on what to do, and have meetings now and then with everyone then very few would do anything. Every buisness has it's pushers and positive people, those people don't get very positive when people tell them to leave the company, and harass them on a daily basis.

And for your information, I am Roselia, not minimage, appuru is just another screen name. I am sure alot of people have trouble finding out who I am, and have made up their minds already, but they do not know who I am. They sure know that I know minimage, but he is his own person, and he is certainly not my brother, which alot think, and did not get the knowledge of that we only said we were siblings because we were bored. minimage may use this account from time to time, but that is because he uses my computer sometimes. Should I be hated for knowing another person, who apparently has a bad record for doing.. almost nothing? I don't think I should, because I don't judge you if you say that you know person x, I would however judge somewhat if you knew person x, which stole my phone.
There's a reason my facebook is not posted or written down anywhere on any ro server, mostly work related, but also because I hate it when someone gets it and starts spreading images around, and spreading my name around.
If you want me to tell you who I am, then I'm just not going to. Do everyone tell others who they are? No, it's normal not to. I wanted to get to know some communities better, but I am not giving out my real name. The only part that is real is my first name, which is sara.

Now I have to get back to someone's birthday, have a nice evening.

(I don't intend this to seem very mean or whatever you might think I am pushing down on, making myself seem soo much better then everyone else, but I tried to help talonro, and I can only take mean things done against me for so long. The fact that harassment goes on and is not being dealt with so that the offender notices that its bad is very dumb. Excuse me for being rude in this post, I have been through alot in tro the last few months, but right now I need some air.)

[close]

Aozora · Jun 21, 2009, 10:56 AM

QuoteFor the dagger issue, boreas told me on msn when I talked to him about something(not the dagger), and I was not suprised of who it was really, but the fact that I had been given false information by some players on the server, and even a screenshot of someone trading the dagger moments after the incident of the lag-dropping made it very hard to believe that the person who I got to know that took it, didn't take it. But in the end, it didn't suprise me that the person was not banned for more then three days. Maybe a litte considering that the person had done stuff like that earlier and not gotten banned for it.

Well there was a good reason the person was not banned, since this sort of behavior is not actually against the rules. It's a s*** thing to do, much like MVP's are Free For All and you can tryto prevent other people from killing the MVP. If you drop something, even by accident, the person who picks it up doesn't really have an obligation to give it back to you. Since it was in fact your mistake for not keeping the equip window constantly open. The case was kinda controversial, it does not count as scam, or looting really which is why the person was not punished extremely harshly.

Usually in these kinds of cases we even charge an item recovery fee, and from what I know you were not even charged this fee. So what in your opinion should have been done? Perma ban a person from picking up an item on the ground?

Quote
On the advertisment part, I have not seen much advertising in the two years talonro has been out in the server lists. I went to tro in december because a friend started to play there, and I thought it would be nice to start playing and developing the community so that more players join, and creating another great server.
The behind the scenes things that are being done, must be very behind the scenes. Because if no one knows about it, then how can it be told to others? The worst thing someone can do is to advertise their product in secret, because few know of it, and the word of it is not spread. Maybe not the worst, but very close atleast.

The new players in the server are mostly speaking other languages then english, so I suspect all the tro advertisment is done in the philippines, if at all. The forum is mainly english speaking and there have been like.. 3 new semi active members who use it and post there. Ingame there community of tagalog speaking have increased, along with some spanish speaking/italian, but these numbers are in the 3's and 5's, at most.

We are aware of the lack of advertisments and we are working on this. However we rather prefer to finish something before actually releasing anything. The things are behind the scenes since they're not done yet, so what would the use be of notifying people avout them? "Hey we're planning on releasing an advertisment campaignsoon". What use would that be? I doubt that would bring more players or help people in recruiting new players. We're not keeping TalonRO in secret or keeping TalonRO behind the scenes, only content that is not done.

QuoteI'll skip some back and forth here, atm to black talon. He is not showing the players that he is there. If you go to a server, and you hear that the main admin/owner isn't there, and haven't made a post in like, a year, then you get the feeling the server is dead. You do not get the feeling or sensation that the server is super awesome and the best of the best when you hear the owner is almost gone.
Hearing that he does behind the scenes work, and works on it now and then, or more accurately, makes the big yes or no decicions, then you get the feeling that the gm team is covering for something.

This may be a difference in opinion but I don't think that an inactive owner is a bad thing. As long as the GM team is not dependant on him. BT pays the bills, keeps the web and game server up and we can reach him if we need him. Other than that our team has full access to the server root files, we can implement the content we want as long as the rest of the team agrees on it.

Having an active server owner gives a certain kind of good feel to the server sure, but as long as an inactive owner does not hinder the server development and the GM team in any way I do not believe the owner needs to be around really.

QuoteThe GMC(Gm challence) is yes, for the best of the best, but seeing that the best of the best complain saying that they cant do it, shows that they are very crybaby-ish, and will cry and hit people if they don't get what they want, and don't really think much about how to do it another way.

And? They can complain all they want but that does not mean we will change the tower. People complained about shield reflect on Kasas, it's still there. They complained about trans skills on LH3 mobs, they're still there. Theycomplained about teleporting MVP's. They complained about Drac changes. They can comaplain all they want, and the fact is that someone will always complain. But that does not mean we will make the game easier for them.

Quote
Skipping some back, I provoked the community when I presented the suggestions and changes I felt were neccesary in order to get more players, and that is going to be taken as a bad thing by the community. But when even the gm team do not realise that they are doing something wrong, or not right, and do not want to change then there's something wrong. From talonro opened and until now, it's been two-ish years of little happening. The players don't take part and try to develop the server, the gm team does their thing, but it's mostly for the already elitist players(not thinking about vanilla, which was suggested by one of the few members that actually did something for the better of the server). The fact that I gave an effort and made some gears going is saying that this should have been done earlier, and not now. Saying that you have been working on getting more players, when the player base has been going up to 200, with around 100 venders, and stayed that way you're not really doing anything to promote or get more players. You're just trying to keep the ones you have if you have that many for two years.

You provoked the community about changes you felt were neccesary. However couldn't you have pushed your ideas without actually provoking the community? If you post an idea an take every negative comment about it personally and try to attack the person who posted it, that will not work.

We do want to continually evolve and become a better team and a better server. If there is something you feel that we're doing wrong then please do inform us via PM's for example. We are very open to criticism.

Now to the elite and vanilla focus. We do implement things to help newbies, Reward syste, vanilla WoE/PvP, monster of the week, removal of the witch's starsands form the alchy NPC, Customized newbie grounds, and multiple other things which benefit newbies far more than they benefit vets. Now for vanilla focus, if you're referring to your suggestion of forcing vanilla mode in certain maps. The thing is, we do not want to focus on vanilla, vanilla should b a jumping board for players to jump into the fast paced gameplay that MVP cards offer. That is the reason we offer vanilla, it's an environment for newbies to play PVP/WoE competitvely before they can get to the higher tier gameplay. I really don't feel like reposting everything I posted in the thread on our forums.

And you're again bringing up promoting and advertising, we are working on it as I said.

Posted on: Jun 21, 2009, 02:56 am

Continuing~

QuoteSkipping forward, The gm issue, I feel that it is wrong to hire someone who might technically do a good job, but in the end only feed information and give off a currupted look by acting obnoxious and two sided. For instance, when the gm tryne is gm tryne, gm tryne is a half good moderator. When gm tryne is not gm tryne, but on her normal account, she is often rude, makes jokes about penises and the likes, laughs and spams, and helps out here and there, but mostly just spams and "has fun".

If you are hired as a gm, then you are a gm fulltime. You can't just switch back to your old self and mess around and not take action on anything, and let things slide. I told some of the new players that the user jermum was gm tryne, and they were going o.O because the two were so different. Gm tryne was/is a gm that will follow the rules to some extent and let alot of things slide, but that is the gm person that user is. Jermum is a rulebreaker/bender that often spams in the @main chat of the server, making alot of people turn off their @main chat and says alot of offensive things that gm tryne would not say, and encourage others not to say.

As I said, if you are a gm, you are a gm all the time, until you leave the position as a gm, or get fired. Not saying you have to be on the gm user all the time, but if you are on your normal player account, you are still a gm, and should act accordingly. Not switch between being police and being crook.

We hired Tryne since we believed she would make a good GM. I have not seen anyone besides you here saying anything bad about her and the way she behaves =/ Though as I said, we ae very open to criticism, if you feel that Tryne is a bad GM or misbehaving then please do direct your concearn to us via support tickets with adequete proof of her behavior and we will have a talk with her.

I know she spams sometimes but that not neccecerily bad. I spam on forums too with my GM acount sometimes. It's not some blatant rulebreaking. I know she spams @main too, however as long as she does not start talking about explict or ofensive subjects it's all fine. @main is meant for people to chat there, look for parties and all that. Spaming @main is not against the rules unless the spam is ofensive.

However as I said, if you feel like she is not suited to be a GM due to her actions on her normal/GM account, or feel that she needs to shape up, then please forward your concearns with adequete proof to the GM team via support tickets or forums reports. Proof would involve things such as screenshot of her misbehavior in game, chatlogs or links to forums posts.

Quote
I'd like to get back to the community, since the loudest people are often those who have the biggest impact on first impressions, and they leave marks on others with their behaviour.

When suggesting something at talonro, it is often those who hog the forum and spam the most that are the first to reply. Ignoring them is like trying to ignore someone waving a cake in your face while playing las ketchup on a mobile dancing and jumping while you try to hold a speech about world peace.
The serious discussion comes up first after a while, and if often met with no's and "this is why it sucks", and some good arguments or ideas on improving the suggestion. Because those few spammers come off so strong and offensive your natural reaction is to retaliate against it, because the spammers are often in much bigger numbers then you, and will back eachother up, then get more "backup", and it ends into a discussion about something totally unrelevant which makes the suggestion spam, and it's junked.

This happens if you retaliate against anyone offensively. You retaliate offensively > Others will retaliate offensively. If other retaliate to you and have more friends, their friends will back them up obviously.

As for the actual spam, I jsut look througheverysingle topic you made on the first page of WYSIWYG. None of them had spam, none of them turned into a huge flamewar, in fact they were all discussed aturealy with good arguments. Same applies to every single thread in WYSIWYG. In fact I even looked through most threads in the suggestions & feedback boards and they were all spam less as well. So if there was spam, it was either moderated away or nonexistant.

Now if there are spammers in your thread, there is a "report to moderator button" on the top right corner of every single psot in the forum. If you believe that some posts do not belong in the thread I urge you to report said posts. Currently there are no topic or post reports at all. So if you see spam in a thread you began, or in any threadm or some people starting to pull the thread completley off topic with their spam, report such posts. We can't go through every single new psot every single time we log in the forums.

Quote
Changing people is hard, but when they realise themselves that they way they act and the way they do things is perhaps not the best, they start changing for the better often.
With the case of the rant I made because most of the community was pushing my suggestions down and acting like pricks because I tried to make a difference, I wrote it because I was tired of the constant bickering and poking at whatever I said or suggested.

However did you read the rant you posted after you actually posed it? The way to mke people change is not by cussing and shouting at them. Especially not on the Internet. All you're doing by raging is fuel the flames. If you want to ahnge people you need to try and talk with them, rather than argue with them. nd again, all the suggestions you made in WYSIWYG are completley spam and falme free so I don't see how they were bickering and poking what you suggest.

QuotePeople get tired of other people now and then, and yes community issues are because of two parts going against eachother, and one part being larger then the other and pushes the opposing part down, when the opposing part is trying to do something useful.

I have seen very, very few suggestions on things to improve on, or things to do from the users of talonro. Mostly it has been laughing in the msn chatrooms the users create, and the use of the irc channel to spam and laugh at other people.

I've said this before; If someone tries to help, and get s*** thrown in their face then they wouldnt like it. The way the help was presented in may have been "way wrong" but in the end the person is only trying to help. Instead of being super rude and very ignorant of the fact that help/idea building is being offered, the players/users should help instead of spam things down.

There is nothing we can do if there are no suggestions. We have boards to suggest, we've informed of epple that there are baords to suggest and that they are encouraged to sugest things. What more can we do? You have made a lot of suggestions which some were good and other I don't agree with. And I don't really understand the point you're trying to mke with MSN and IRC chats. MSN chats are something beyond our jurisdiction, if ppeople flame on others in MSN there's absolutely nothing we can do about that. As for IRC, the main IRC channel is pretty much dead. There are probably two or three people there who sometimes talk about things and 90% of the time it's completley unrelated to the server.

If someone is trying to help, and presents his help in a wrong way, the help will be taken in the wrong way. If you cannot present your help in the right way people will misunderstand it, if you're being incredibly rude to others they will be incredibly rude to you. If you flame others they will flame you. Even if you do ty to help them like that, they will take it in a completelyworng way. Flaming and being rude are generally not considered helpful things or a good way to try and help others.

It's like walking down the street then all of a sudden someone punches you in the face. "I was only trying to help you" You'd be pretty pissed too even if the person was really really trying to help you.

QuoteI think it's very stupid of the users to push down on another user because of the ideas or suggestions one presents.
Not once did I recieve a pm saying or telling me in a good matter that the way I presented things in was wrong according to what the players liked.

The only one who tried something like that was z3igarnik, who pm'ed me so after being highly rude towards my discussion with some of the other members, and it seemed like she was "summoned" only to push what I said further down. It is like the main core of talonro consists of people trying to bring others down because of the way they are. And the pm I got was not that I should present my suggestions in a more humble matter(because the tro people like to think they are kings and queens), but that I should stop suggestion and let the gm's do their job instead of pushing on certain matters, and if I couldnt do that I should leave, among other things.

Now you're taking the treatment you have received and generalize it without any sort of basis to do so other than your treatment. From what I know you have done things to make others not like you. If a lot of people on the forums don't like you, then is that necceserily the fault of the comunity? Are you sure you haven't given them any reason to behave like that? From what I know most of the bad treatment you get is not due to your suggestions, but they result in some completley diferent things.

From everything I have observed in game as a normal character and as a GMcharacter. People are extremely helpful and kind to newbies. They help them level by tnking/leeching them, they teach them about the game, answer in !main, recruit them to guilds and MVP runs, I've even sen some newbies take part in the GMC with a group of old vets. I honestly don't see our community as incredibly rude or offensive generally unless they're given a reason to be like that.

QuoteOkay this is somewhat derailing. What I am trying to say is that the talonro people are not people who like to help. They like to get and use, without giving. They will hold a reasonable conversation when the issue is something that concerns them and their game/gameplay, but if it is about getting more players to the server, and focusing more on reducing the rich/poor gap then they are not too keen on that.

I couldn't disagree more. When a newbie asks help in !main they in most cases will get help. If there is a reasonable suggestion to get new players chances are it will be dscussed. And even if the community doesn't discuss something in depth and with incredibly long posts. It doeesn't mean that the GM team won't notice them

QuoteIf your boss at your work didn't remind his workers now and then on what to do, and have meetings now and then with everyone then very few would do anything. Every buisness has it's pushers and positive people, those people don't get very positive when people tell them to leave the company, and harass them on a daily basis.

However if the pushers and positive people weren't too kind to the workers either thenthat's a different issue altogether.

Quote(I don't intend this to seem very mean or whatever you might think I am pushing down on, making myself seem soo much better then everyone else, but I tried to help talonro, and I can only take mean things done against me for so long. The fact that harassment goes on and is not being dealt with so that the offender notices that its bad is very dumb. Excuse me for being rude in this post, I have been through alot in tro the last few months, but right now I need some air.)

It's not mean, we apprecite criticism and feedback of course. But you indeed seemed like you were trying to make yourself much better than everyone else. You continually kept referring to how you tried to help the server, how ou were the one doing all the suggestions and how you were harassed with no reason whatsoever. Now I do apologizze if I sound rude but, that seems quite arrogant to me.

From what I know, you are not the kindest person around either, and I also know that people do have their reasons for not liking you, and the reasons are completely valid.

And the hrassment is being dealth with,but from what I know after asking high GM's, you generlly make very little effort in order to prevent the offenive behavior towards you or report very minor things. For example if someone PM's you something offensive,rather than blocking said person you report them.

All in all your main issue seems to be with the treatment you received by our community. Thenyou generalize that and assume that everyone is treated the same as you were. While I understand that and it might seem reasonable, that is not true. You have to admit that you did numerous things as well to make the community dislike you. You say that people are rude and offensive and often spam and yet you do the exac same thing on our forums you are criticisng others of.

The community has it's problems I know, but it is nowhere as rude and bad as you make it seem to be.

DeePee · Jun 21, 2009, 11:11 AM

That was...huge.

Aozora · Jun 21, 2009, 01:14 PM

Also wtf I can't edit out my typos o_O

SilverStream~ · Jun 21, 2009, 02:44 PM

Yes I have perhaps acted better then everyone else, but you cannot achieve high things without setting you bar high.

If I come off as trying to seem better then others and then get flames for that, it's an understandable reaction, but to not see that the way the community in general responds to change(or anything really) is very bad seems ignorant to me.

I'll make this very short. I accept the fact that the community of talonro is not in favor of my actions. But. It is vital to understand that while I have been doing a "push on, make the ball roll" thing, the response that has gotten is very bad. Even if it weren't me.

I have been making alot of suggestions and various ideas on improvement of the server. Some have worked some have not. The point is that because many do not post their ideas, often it goes a while until something is posted, and then done. By posting or making several suggestions in intervals you keep the ball rolling. It's called continuing idea creation. By having for example 10 ideas at the same time and posting them as suggestions, you almost instantly create discussions, and while some may disagree and some agree the point is to make progress overall.

Work is not done in an instant, no. But I have not always been referring to the gm team and what they have been doing/not done/been working on. In some of my posts on the suggestion boards I have said to the ones saying the idea/suggestion is bad etc, that "I don't see you doing anything?", and yes I understand that is offensive to say but it is also very true. But in all seriousness, one can really only take their own limit of this, meaning while provoking for change works as getting the community rolling in their ideas, and own helping of getting more members to the server, the person who does this will get mocked down on.

Many do not see this kind of idea creation as one that does anything at all, some don't even realise what the person that has the ideas is trying to do. And that person can only take so much, I can only take so much. It's unusual to recieve so much.. negative comments on most things, and it results in name calling, rants, etc. Some should be told how they are acting, because of how provokative they are, but saying this makes me more of a hypocrite then I already am, imo. In the end, the things I have done have created some sort of idea creation, where people help more of their own. Sometimes everyone needs to let some steam out, and I've let mine out now. I would like to apologise on how rude I may have sounded in my posts or ingame, also I have been getting treatment that is reflected on how I have come of as, however overpowered that response have been, you have to see that it has developed and made progress overall. I see much more idea creation now then in christmas.
So you can't say that what I have done has been wrong, but it has been slightly harsh the response it has gotten, from what it has been presented as.

Anyways, it seems like talonro is actually getting better, while alot of people need to work on their people skills, it's overall getting more people, from a downlow player base a few months back. I think I'll remove the first post I made in this topic, maybe change it, but it was mostly for letting steam out. It's a positive thing to do for yourself, since you think much better afterwards and then you remember what you were doing it for.

I was harsh in that talkabout post, and yes, it's not as bad as it seems. Sometimes yes, but mostly, no. A few members of the community come of very offensive with what they say though, for example there is a few users who always spam @main and the word they are fancying now is "kikkeli", which I is dutch for [wiki]. Alot of nice people, but also some black sheeps.

Aozora · Jun 21, 2009, 04:12 PM

QuoteYes I have perhaps acted better then everyone else, but you cannot achieve high things without setting you bar high.

If I come off as trying to seem better then others and then get flames for that, it's an understandable reaction, but to not see that the way the community in general responds to change(or anything really) is very bad seems ignorant to me.

Well drastic changes on things that have been like that for a long long long time generally do get a bad response because people have gotten used to them. You have to understand that tRO sprouted from AnimaRO. In AnimaRO there were tons of things done bad, MVP's not porting, broken SQI's and all that. Players got used to them, they became vital aspects of the gameplay. And then when people have been playing with that for the last 2 years and then GM's come and change something, they will of course get a negative response at first.

This is true for every single person and community out there. If you were living somewhere and you walked the same road to school every single day for the past 2 years. Then all of a sudden some corporation decides to put big road for cars there os you have to take another longer road to school from now on. You'd be angry and pissed too.

The thing is, it just takes a while to get used to changes. People will complain like hell at first if anything is changed, then after a while they see hat the change isn't so bad after all and live with it. I remember the time when we added MVP tele back, a huge s*** rose. Now everyone wants it to stay there. The server is changing, whether people want it or not,because it has to change. We can't keep playing like we're using a 10.4 Aegis.

QuoteI have been making alot of suggestions and various ideas on improvement of the server. Some have worked some have not. The point is that because many do not post their ideas, often it goes a while until something is posted, and then done. By posting or making several suggestions in intervals you keep the ball rolling. It's called continuing idea creation. By having for example 10 ideas at the same time and posting them as suggestions, you almost instantly create discussions, and while some may disagree and some agree the point is to make progress overall.

Of course, and that's a good thing and you should keep making suggestions if you have them. But if someone does not agree with you or posts a stupid comment in your thread, do not immediately take it as a personal insult against you. Report the post and cahcnes are it will be deleted 5 minutes later.

QuoteWork is not done in an instant, no. But I have not always been referring to the gm team and what they have been doing/not done/been working on. In some of my posts on the suggestion boards I have said to the ones saying the idea/suggestion is bad etc, that "I don't see you doing anything?", and yes I understand that is offensive to say but it is also very true. But in all seriousness, one can really only take their own limit of this, meaning while provoking for change works as getting the community rolling in their ideas, and own helping of getting more members to the server, the person who does this will get mocked down on.

So you're referring to the community with the "not doing anything"? If someone disagrees wiht your suggestion the best idea is not to respond sarcastically with a "You're not doing anything" That really does not prmote healthy discussion about the matter but rather makes you seem annoying. If someone disagrees, read the psot throughly, answer to the things he/she pointed out. If no reasons were given ask for reasons, then continue to discuss about it, maybe there was something wrong with your suggestion. Maybe the person disagreeing can help you improve it with criticism.

QuoteMany do not see this kind of idea creation as one that does anything at all, some don't even realise what the person that has the ideas is trying to do. And that person can only take so much, I can only take so much. It's unusual to recieve so much.. negative comments on most things, and it results in name calling, rants, etc. Some should be told how they are acting, because of how provokative they are, but saying this makes me more of a hypocrite then I already am, imo. In the end, the things I have done have created some sort of idea creation, where people help more of their own. Sometimes everyone needs to let some steam out, and I've let mine out now. I would like to apologise on how rude I may have sounded in my posts or ingame, also I have been getting treatment that is reflected on how I have come of as, however overpowered that response have been, you have to see that it has developed and made progress overall. I see much more idea creation now then in christmas.
So you can't say that what I have done has been wrong, but it has been slightly harsh the response it has gotten, from what it has been presented as.

Again, I looked over every single one of your suggestions in the WYSIWYG board. While people may have agreed, they gave good reasons and arguments. It was just not some simple "No cuz it's stoopid" response. If people disagree with you and have completely reasonable reasons to do so you should not take that offensively. The people disagreeing are not always wrong, they may have a point as well. That is why suggestions are made in the forums, so people can discuss about them and give their own opinions as feedback.

I'm not saying what you have done has been wrong, I'm saying you might have done what you intended to do in a slightly bad way. You took things offensively, you jumped on people who didn't agree with you etc etc. If you would rather have remained calm, continued discussion in a reasonable and mature way the treatment you would have received may have had been completely different.

QuoteAnyways, it seems like talonro is actually getting better, while alot of people need to work on their people skills, it's overall getting more people, from a downlow player base a few months back. I think I'll remove the first post I made in this topic, maybe change it, but it was mostly for letting steam out. It's a positive thing to do for yourself, since you think much better afterwards and then you remember what you were doing it for.

Mhm letting steam out is good, and I do honestly encourage people to do so. But venting out in a review thread of a server simply makes the server look bad evne though you were only meaning to vent out =/ And changing/removing your first post would be appreciated. Though then me and De need to edit ours too xD Also I would edit my response, however I seem to be unable to do so ._.

QuoteI was harsh in that talkabout post, and yes, it's not as bad as it seems. Sometimes yes, but mostly, no. A few members of the community come of very offensive with what they say though, for example there is a few users who always spam @main and the word they are fancying now is "kikkeli", which I is dutch for [wiki]. Alot of nice people, but also some black sheeps.

Well you are always free to report them, however I do not find something like that extremely offensive =/ I mean I'd understand if it was something involving a lot of profanity or offensive words. It may be a difference in opinion again but I do not find something like that a punishable offense. However I do understand what you're saying and soem stricter restrictions may have to placed on !main for these kinds of issues.

DeePee · Jun 21, 2009, 05:31 PM

Kikkeli is no Dutch word ._. Didn't it refer to Trang's IRC name "Kikker"? Which means Frog in Dutch

Hutchy · Jun 21, 2009, 05:34 PM

Alright, in all seriousness, I'm seconding Lemon's request for a tl:dr version. There is nothing in the history of all RO servers that is so important/amazing/whatever it should take thousands of words to explain. No offense meant (though it will be taken that way, srsbsns and all).

SilverStream~ · Jun 21, 2009, 07:54 PM

Hutchy, you don't have to read it if you don't want to. It's actually kind if rude to ask someone for a tl;dr when it's a conversation that is if not important but tying up loose ends and other unsaid things.

Just saying you know.

On the kikkeli, I have no idea really where it comes from. I did another search for it now and it's actually finnish. None the less I've seen it every day now being said in @main and even though it is a foregin language for most on this server, it shouldn't be written and put everywhere. It's like paiting a building in africa with penis and no one knows what it means, but it's still offensive for others.

Anyways. Cleaning up this topic should be done, yes. Put the posts in spoiler tags, and put up a short description for it like I did with mine, it seems to be a good solution.

For the @main thing, I think more general rules should be placed.
These are the current real player relation rules on talonro;

Quote

-Respect all players. No harassment or discrimination is allowed. Serious offenses such as racial discrimination or sexual harassment may result in a ban.
-No trashtalking or vulgar language in !main.
Quote
The first one is okay, while it is not being enforced too much, it's a good rule to have.
A good rule to add would be a "Do not insult or provoke fellow players", since that often happens even if they have good intentions with their jokes. Some don't know where to stop.
The second one is not being enforced at all almost. Only when a gm is on he/she may enforce it. There should be a "Do not spam in @main", because there is alot of spam from the veteran players, and the contents are vulgar and sometimes you just go "o.O what the fu.."
I've even seen gm tryne spam together with fellow players, while not on the gm account she still spammed in the same content category as "kikkeli". It's happened a few times and of course it's fun sometimes, but it goes on, and day after day after day.

There are alot of imperfections, but those should be fairly easy to resolve.
Having a more "happy" atmosphere on the server, where it's more pg-13 is more likable for people since most don't want to join a server where everyone swears openly and talks about fcking and "stick your kikkeli into my vag pls pls". They want a server they can play the game on, not read a erotic novel.

I'd like to go back on the advertisment of tro, since I have seriously never seen any banner or anything promoting talonro other then some voting sites. Nothing else, and that's bad if you want to increase the population. Increasing the population increases the economy, which is almost at null atm, and it also makes the server seem much more alive, and that things are actually going on. Right now you need to wait until someone coms online in order to get the players you need to go somewhere. That's often the cause anyway.

For suggestions from me, ideas and such, I think it's a good thing to help and contribute, which is what I've done on several servers and they all have increased their player count by atleast 100 over a short peroid of time.
Visual things like, notes from the server owner, special hat quests/weapon quest etc, things that can be advertised for example, are very good to use as suggestions. The latest suggestion from me was to revise the capitals in talonro. Having 2 was for a 2k player server, and it's natural to go back to 1 when you can barely sustain one as an active capital.

Revising what maps should be main maps and starting out more as a new server with a low population in terms of the game world is a good thing to have done, because you can't have a server ready for 2k players, when you barely hit 300. What I reacted on was that from last time I played on talonro, the towns hadn't changed at all, nothing had been done, in a whole year almost.
But it's changing now, I haven't read the last parts, but I think it's coming along nicely I would expect.

LemonCrosswalk · Jun 21, 2009, 08:04 PM

Then rename the thread to War and Peace.

SilverStream~ · Jun 21, 2009, 08:24 PM

Or WarP for short~

Hutchy · Jun 21, 2009, 09:41 PM

I know I don't have to read it if I don't want to - thus me asking for a summary of sorts. :c

Edit: Wait. Where's Bleu at? Kinda hijacked her thread. :[

Aozora · Jun 22, 2009, 05:16 AM

Quote
Anyways. Cleaning up this topic should be done, yes. Put the posts in spoiler tags, and put up a short description for it like I did with mine, it seems to be a good solution.

Thing is, I can't seem to be able to edit my post. I click on modify put spoiler tags and click save and I get this The message exceeds the maximum allowed length (20000 characters). Since RMS forums seems to be treating double posts as a single post, making it impossible for me to edit it x_X

QuoteThe first one is okay, while it is not being enforced too much, it's a good rule to have.
A good rule to add would be a "Do not insult or provoke fellow players", since that often happens even if they have good intentions with their jokes. Some don't know where to stop.
The second one is not being enforced at all almost. Only when a gm is on he/she may enforce it. There should be a "Do not spam in @main", because there is alot of spam from the veteran players, and the contents are vulgar and sometimes you just go "o.O what the fu.."
I've even seen gm tryne spam together with fellow players, while not on the gm account she still spammed in the same content category as "kikkeli". It's happened a few times and of course it's fun sometimes, but it goes on, and day after day after day.

I don't see spamming !main as something that should be completley against the rules. Sure if you keep on spamming the same words over and over again so that no one else can have a chacne to talk then that's bad. But just general spamming of stuff that is not offensive in any way or doesn't prevent others from talking should be fine in my eyes. !main is not forums and does not have topic or threads so it should not be treated the same way. Spamming is something that may very well lighten up the atmosphere, and make it easier for people to talk when they see that it's not so srs bsns.

If jokes go overboard or people start swearing or talking profanity in !main then that is a reportable offense and the offenders will be punished.

QuoteI'd like to go back on the advertisment of tro, since I have seriously never seen any banner or anything promoting talonro other then some voting sites. Nothing else, and that's bad if you want to increase the population. Increasing the population increases the economy, which is almost at null atm, and it also makes the server seem much more alive, and that things are actually going on. Right now you need to wait until someone coms online in order to get the players you need to go somewhere. That's often the cause anyway.

Yes indeed, and we are working on advertising,

Quoteor suggestions from me, ideas and such, I think it's a good thing to help and contribute, which is what I've done on several servers and they all have increased their player count by atleast 100 over a short peroid of time.
Visual things like, notes from the server owner, special hat quests/weapon quest etc, things that can be advertised for example, are very good to use as suggestions. The latest suggestion from me was to revise the capitals in talonro. Having 2 was for a 2k player server, and it's natural to go back to 1 when you can barely sustain one as an active capital.

Revising what maps should be main maps and starting out more as a new server with a low population in terms of the game world is a good thing to have done, because you can't have a server ready for 2k players, when you barely hit 300. What I reacted on was that from last time I played on talonro, the towns hadn't changed at all, nothing had been done, in a whole year almost.
But it's changing now, I haven't read the last parts, but I think it's coming along nicely I would expect.

Yes suggestions are good, I think we went over this already. As for the towns, as you see the discussion is still there. I wouldn't mind either as a main town really.