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Author Topic: Talon RO - The game, the experience, and the staff  (Read 7224 times)

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Offline liuYF

Talon RO - The game, the experience, and the staff
« on: Jul 11, 2020, 12:19 pm »
Wall of text incoming, but if you're here looking to invest your time playing on this server, or a bystander who wants to munch on popcorns while reading, then read on. TL;DR provided below. /ok

I started playing TalonRO way back in 2013 until 2017, it was my main server until I got burnt out, and the next years, I only pop in to play the seasonal events, check out the big updates and so. The outbreak has me with plenty of time on my hands for the previous months, and I was hoping to get back to it. Personally, I don't have any bad experience with the previous and current staff (word travels), but what has transpired recently has left me with disappointment and a bad taste in my mouth. I will be writing them below. I like this server, enjoyed my time, and have a strong attachment to it. However, the bad aftertaste is intolerable, and in GM Boreas' words, "If you don't like it, then leave."

Let's talk about the server and what they offer.

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This is the nice flower field that TalonRO offers, and I feel like I have played long enough to give an overview to how the server gameplay is. Like stated, I like the server and what they offer, but the more I spend time in here, the longer I regret my time, as I dug deeper in the flower field, the more rotten it gets. Let's dig.

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Having played for a while, I've had my fair share of hearing stories about people having to deal with sending support ticket about their concerns. Most would avoid doing that if possible, because of how dismissive they can be. I have been with different group of people from the times I have been playing, and majority seems to dislike interaction with the administrators. It feels comparatively different from another RO that I am playing, where the administrator/s are approachable and communicative.

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As for another different case (though being banned almost at the same time, and for same reasons), there were rumors going on, and to confirm myself, I reached out to the accused person to talk about it. Working in the legal department, I needed to scratch that itch of getting to bottom of things. Let's call the accused 'X'. X has been banned for using macros/autoclickers. I don't know X in game, nor have I played with her. I reserved my judgment and approached her with a clear mind. And X shared with me the dialogues between the support tickets:

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Here are my personal thoughts on this case.

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Bonus story: banned for mistaken identity.

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They have been around for 12 years, so they must be doing something right in one way or another. I am not saying they are wrong, that is up to your judgment. I am merely stating facts and details about what has transpired, as I've been hearing rumors about it. X isn't vocal about what happened, so players were free to come up with their own speculations. She finds everything that happened silly, and any actions taken by other people on this case (much like this is), she has nothing to do with it. This is just an example of how you can expect to be treated in the server. The sinking feeling might or might not have been paranoia, having to deal with this kind of player support when you play long enough adds to it - and such, why I don't want to dig in any deeper into this stinking hole and drop the server completely.


TL;DR: Server gud on the surface, but play long enough that you'll need to deal with dismissive admins, no gud. Get banned, roll a dice if you can appeal or case closed. They take discord screenshots as evidence, I can teach you how to edit discord conversations in the app itself without photoshop, ask me how.
« Last Edit: Jul 12, 2020, 10:36 pm by liuYF »

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Offline Boreas

Re: Talon RO - The game, the experience, and the staff
« Reply #1 on: Jul 11, 2020, 03:34 pm »
Uhm, no offense, but bans are not based on name sbut ids. The dead branch logs also work with ids, which are unique and cannot be mixed up. I personally have no clue which case this is about, but nobody gets banned because of a name mixup.

Not going to comment on the other "cases" because you aren't involved, didn't see the evidence and everything you said is based on assumptions.

I am merely stating facts and details about what has transpired

You actually only re-posted what you heard from others. Rumors. Nothing more, nothing less.

Thanks for the rest of the review, cheers!
« Last Edit: Jul 11, 2020, 05:54 pm by Boreas »

Offline Phanneh

Re: Talon RO - The game, the experience, and the staff
« Reply #2 on: Jul 11, 2020, 05:19 pm »
Just to clarify:


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You're saying
1)There are two cases where someone was allegedly banned over a discord screenshot, AND
..... i) In both cases the ban was issued for using macros, BUT
2) In both cases, the person was able to successfully appeal and is now unbanned?

And then down here:

As for the other case, there were rumors going on, and to confirm myself, I reached out to the accused person to talk about it. Working in the legal department, I needed to scratch that itch of getting to bottom of things. Let's call the accused 'X'.

 X has been banned for using macros/autoclickers. [...]

(click to show/hide)

You're saying that in this instance (perhaps a third instance?) a person was banned for using macros, but the evidence used was not disclosed, thus violating a simple and obvious rule of fairness/natural justice, specifically the rule that involves knowing the case against one so that one can respond to it?

Offline Sachimi

Re: Talon RO - The game, the experience, and the staff
« Reply #3 on: Jul 11, 2020, 08:10 pm »
You said you work in a legal department, but you can't understand why the name of people who make reports would be kept anonymous? Duh, retribution. That's obvious.

If you had serious concerns about the behaviour of one of the staff, then you should have reported it.

I haven't seen anyone being paranoid or thinking they'll be banned for something small except the people who do something ban-worthy.

Offline liuYF

Re: Talon RO - The game, the experience, and the staff
« Reply #4 on: Jul 12, 2020, 08:26 am »
You said you work in a legal department, but you can't understand why the name of people who make reports would be kept anonymous? Duh, retribution. That's obvious.

If you had serious concerns about the behaviour of one of the staff, then you should have reported it.


Mr. Whiteknight,

You must have misunderstood when I mentioned anything about the identity of the reporter, although I have it in bold already. It does not matter. If GMs have the evidence in-game, they should easily be able to turn it into a GIF and just leave the accused out.

Ah, I should report a staff for making me feel uneasy? I gave him the benefit of the doubt, thinking it's just me nitpicking on people or a difference on culture. You must've missed the twitter drama why a certain someone is no longer a GM.

Just to clarify:

You're saying
1)There are two cases where someone was allegedly banned over a discord screenshot, AND
..... i) In both cases the ban was issued for using macros, BUT
2) In both cases, the person was able to successfully appeal and is now unbanned?

And then down here:

You're saying that in this instance (perhaps a third instance?) a person was banned for using macros, but the evidence used was not disclosed, thus violating a simple and obvious rule of fairness/natural justice, specifically the rule that involves knowing the case against one so that one can respond to it?

Two different cases. Both cases were for using macros, one was successfully able to appeal.

Down there is the second case, not a third one. I apologize for the confusion.

Yes, no evidences were provided. I know they rarely provide evidences, since people can make loopholes out of it and/or try to bypass. Even then, since it's macroing/autoclickers, with the hardcapped skill delay, it's very difficult to prove if a person is using it or not. Keybind recordings to gaming keyboards/mouse will act similarly to what key strokes you recorded to it, it will not bypass the server-wide skill delay. Therefore, I'm not sure how hard it is to show the evidence? If X can replicate it whilst recording her keyboard and mouse movements in real-time, and she has already offered to do so in her appeal - but then again, GMs just closed the case without even replying to her appeals.

Uhm, no offense, but bans are not based on name sbut ids. The dead branch logs also work with ids, which are unique and cannot be mixed up. I personally have no clue which case this is about, but nobody gets banned because of a name mixup.

Not going to comment on the other "cases" because you aren't involved, didn't see the evidence and everything you said is based on assumptions.

You actually only re-posted what you heard from others. Rumors. Nothing more, nothing less.

Thanks for the rest of the review, cheers!

Rofl. I'm not going to start a fire involving other people, but if I can get their approval to use their screenshots, then I'll have receipts for this, even the deadbranch one. It doesn't seem to worth though, maybe if this gets enough traction. Who knows what you will do, as you've already banned a person for having lllllll as their character name.

X has given me free reign on the screenshots related to her case, 'do whatever you want with it.' Though we have no use for it currently as this, being the biggest issue, they've refused to comment on. And what makes you think I haven't seen the evidence, especially the one getting banned over discord screenshot. That one was truly juicy. You guys don't even want to reply directly to the person involved's case, refusing to re-open the case. Is it that hard to admit when you've made a mistake?
« Last Edit: Jul 12, 2020, 09:32 am by liuYF »

Offline Strikephantom

Re: Talon RO - The game, the experience, and the staff
« Reply #5 on: Jul 12, 2020, 10:22 am »
Uhm, no offense, but bans are not based on name sbut ids. The dead branch logs also work with ids, which are unique and cannot be mixed up. I personally have no clue which case this is about, but nobody gets banned because of a name mixup.

Not going to comment on the other "cases" because you aren't involved, didn't see the evidence and everything you said is based on assumptions.

You actually only re-posted what you heard from others. Rumors. Nothing more, nothing less.

Thanks for the rest of the review, cheers!

You're going to dismiss them as rumours just like that when people have seen those conversations for all three cases that liuYF talked about. It still baffles me how the admins GMs were so uncooperative with X's case. X couldn't even get a word in before they closed the ticket and still refusing to hear X's side. It's not like X was being rude either when talking to the GMs nor is X a rude person in general.

They should, at the very least show the evidence. The person reporting X could be edited out. Who knows, the reasons used to justify X's bans could just be rumours too at this point.
« Last Edit: Jul 12, 2020, 10:29 am by Strikephantom »

Offline Phanneh

Re: Talon RO - The game, the experience, and the staff
« Reply #6 on: Jul 12, 2020, 10:30 am »
Two different cases. Both cases were for using macros, one was successfully able to appeal.

Down there is the second case, not a third one. I apologize for the confusion.

I appreciate the clarification!

Yes, no evidences were provided.

So, in the second case, then, it was NOT a discord screenshot that was the evidence?

Failure to provide evidence is a catastrophic and below amateur failure in due process, of course.

But the phrasing of the first post makes it seem as though there were two cases OF being banned USING a discord screenshot AS evidence.
If that's so for the second case, then it's known that "a discord screenshot" was the evidence.
If that's so, then... how is it known that a discord screenshot was the evidence, if no evidence was provided?

Was it just an error in phrasing, and in the second case, neither you nor X know what evidence was used to reach the conclusion?

Offline liuYF

Re: Talon RO - The game, the experience, and the staff
« Reply #7 on: Jul 12, 2020, 10:55 am »

So, in the second case, then, it was NOT a discord screenshot that was the evidence?

Failure to provide evidence is a catastrophic and below amateur failure in due process, of course.

But the phrasing of the first post makes it seem as though there were two cases OF being banned USING a discord screenshot AS evidence.
If that's so for the second case, then it's known that "a discord screenshot" was the evidence.
If that's so, then... how is it known that a discord screenshot was the evidence, if no evidence was provided?

Was it just an error in phrasing, and in the second case, neither you nor X know what evidence was used to reach the conclusion?

My apologies. It was definitely an error in phrasing. I'll clarify that. Thanks for pointing that out.

X didn't receive any evidence. After the three ticket exchanges, they just dismissed it as case closed, with their only basis, in Boreas' words: 'a report from someone showing crystal clear evidence that you have been using macros and auto clickers for a long time now.' She also didn't receive any replies from the support ticket she has sent for appeal, despite not being shown the evidence. She's provided reasons for someone to frame her (if it was a discord exchange), and has offered gameplay videos to show her playing (even on spammy jobs like Sniper/High Wizard). But of course, why would you record if you were macroing? Why hasn't she been caught if, allegedly, she's been doing it for a long time, if the GMs have a fair way to prove the usage of macros? And most importantly, why is the case closed just like that? To repeat, guilty until proven innocent, and X wasn't even given a chance to prove her innocence.
« Last Edit: Jul 12, 2020, 11:02 am by liuYF »

Offline Phanneh

Re: Talon RO - The game, the experience, and the staff
« Reply #8 on: Jul 12, 2020, 11:59 am »
Okay, understood; thankye!

If accurately represented, the failure shown by the first case is unfortunate but not fatal; obviously they should verify before a ban, not after.

If accurately represented, the failure shown by the second case is beyond unfortunate indeed, and people should certainly be aware of it.

Offline Nubblyn

Re: Talon RO - The game, the experience, and the staff
« Reply #9 on: Jul 12, 2020, 06:04 pm »
I made an account just to comment lol. Great write up and good read. Its worth my popcorn

Chiming in to confirm that the cases mentioned are not rumors lol. Ask the right people in the server and you will know. They are all true and its absurd how they are claiming it to be but still 0 comment about X’s case

Not a good look tbh /??

Maybe you guys need to take this to twitter or social media to get a response /heh. See how quick they responded in the twitter drama with GM ***** this is good tho and more players should be aware of this
« Last Edit: Jul 12, 2020, 06:30 pm by Nubblyn »

Offline liuYF

Re: Talon RO - The game, the experience, and the staff
« Reply #10 on: Jul 13, 2020, 10:20 am »
If accurately represented, the failure shown by the second case is beyond unfortunate indeed, and people should certainly be aware of it.

I can guarantee that this is accurately represented as I have the screenshots of the support tickets & Discord DMs (attempting to reach out) related to the case.

Why so quiet from GM? are they busy with seals, summer race, more rumors ?

They're refusing to comment on the case since I'm not involved, but not like the person involved got any chance to get a decent dialogue from them either.
« Last Edit: Jul 13, 2020, 10:31 am by liuYF »

Offline Seirumors

Re: Talon RO - The game, the experience, and the staff
« Reply #11 on: Jul 13, 2020, 10:46 am »
Hi, me here to second that post about that player being wrongfully banned.

I have been playing with her for several years and her gameplay was definitely a pro player.
I've also seen screenshots of how the GMs were responding to the case and it disgusted me how they can just decide and dismiss a case with merely a discord screenshot, which can be easily forged.

Yep Mr. Admin is dismissing everything here by stating everything is just a rumor is also very disgusting, as always.
But your ban was based on an easily edited source too.
« Last Edit: Jul 13, 2020, 05:58 pm by Xarale »

Offline Nubblyn

Re: Talon RO - The game, the experience, and the staff
« Reply #12 on: Jul 13, 2020, 11:49 am »
i know right. many people offer her gears to borrow and come back play. because many people want her back. but how can you come and play again after this treatment? lol. so unfair and not justified. we get that no evidence shown for ban but, no appeal and case close immediately? i am curious how the other people in case feel when boreas say what happened with them are just rumor lol

i know that this happened a month ago, and real story has come out now. we want answers, my popcorns are getting stale already  /omg

!!! i just hear that this thread got posted in tro discord but get deleted. why so fishy? kekeke  /heh

hou. many asskisser in discord too, thinking their gms cant do anything wrong. come defend them here, not in your tro discord safe space  /heh
« Last Edit: Jul 13, 2020, 12:59 pm by Nubblyn »

Offline arivanandan

Re: Talon RO - The game, the experience, and the staff
« Reply #13 on: Jul 13, 2020, 01:03 pm »
Can confirm that the High GMs (Boreas and Seiren) are obstinate, narrow-minded and oft-times have no clue what's happening with the game / how things work. Suggestions are closed without a thought, discussions are never to be had. Basically, you can't reason with these two. You talk reason to them, you show them code that makes it happen, or anything else along this line of action expect it to have absolutely no impact. It's almost surprising that they've been able to keep the server running for so long.

I've had more than a handful of friends get banned over nothing. The GM team is corrupt (I submit a report, the next day the reported guy comes and asks me whazzup ***** to my face) but the high GMs obviously do not believe that anything like that could ever happen. Their minds are too single-track, it's either a yes or a no, and once it happens that's that in most cases. (Corrupt only in this fashion, nothing major because thankfully they know how to check logs.) But the way they handle reports is always open-and-shut. They don't deal with it on a per-case basis which is absolutely terrible because some people get away with really bad griefing while others get banned for nothing.

You'll probably never run into any of this if you simply farm away in Geffenia and Sleepers, but hats and AFK in town (which is what 90% of the population does / did). But if you get anywhere near competitive end-game this is bound to happen. So there's a good chance that the majority of the player-base is oblivious to any of this happening but when you get there it happens all around you. As a result people will refute that this could be, because it's not their truth, but it is the truth.

tl;dr Boreas and Seiren can't be reasoned with but they run the show; wouldn't want to play in this server if I had a choice (but dammit it has the best PvM);

Also there's some hope! They've inducted a new High GM who is sensible  /ok

Offline liuYF

Re: Talon RO - The game, the experience, and the staff
« Reply #14 on: Jul 13, 2020, 05:04 pm »
^ Completely agree with arivanandan. Very good points, in all honesty. At this point, I don't think it's an exaggeration to state that it has been GM Lance's tremendous effort that keep people playing. I can't imagine what people would be doing now PvM wise without Lance events and contents he comes up with. Lance has been carrying this server so hard for years.

It's no surprise that people are still adamant about this being real, and dismissing the claims (in the server discord), simply because they don't play in that competitive end-game level. However, these are all truths, perhaps not something they will experience as long as they stay in their flower fields, so they brush it off as salty claims.

i know right. many people offer her gears to borrow and come back play. because many people want her back. but how can you come and play again after this treatment? lol. so unfair and not justified. we get that no evidence shown for ban but, no appeal and case close immediately? i am curious how the other people in case feel when boreas say what happened with them are just rumor lol

i know that this happened a month ago, and real story has come out now. we want answers, my popcorns are getting stale already  /omg

!!! i just hear that this thread got posted in tro discord but get deleted. why so fishy? kekeke  /heh

hou. many asskisser in discord too, thinking their gms cant do anything wrong. come defend them here, not in your tro discord safe space  /heh

I have actually offered her my whole account with the gears, in the case that she might want to play again, as I'm completely done with the server, and I'm not surprised that other people would extend their help if she plans to start over. But she insists that she has no reason to do so, unless the incident is properly dealt with. However, I'm not hopeful that a case like hers will be the last, they are being evasive about everything here.

Ah, I was sent a screenshot of it being posted in the Discord and deleted a while after. My review is constructive, truthful and detailed; I talked about the server properly, and how the staff is, like my thread title says, is it not? And to those that defended the server in the Discord, I'd have to agree. Why not come here and give your thoughts as well so we can have a proper discussion?