RetRO a server that I considered the best but can't recommend anymore (review)

Started by lungo, Sep 16, 2021, 11:55 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

dahman

Quote from: Mistral on Sep 17, 2021, 01:33 PM


What you call cheesing are the game's mechanics, we like it or not. It seems like people optimized the strats over the months and leveled slave priests with level 10 sanctuary just for that purpose. Sanctuary also has a low charge limit so it has to be spammed on the mob since a single one will only heal half of the mob once, for 777. Most of this was largely enabled by the tap EXP bonus.



just for info:
theres a way to heal all majos w/o make the Sanc collapse to a single 777heal.
/ok
RO strats and its mechanics are deeeeeeeeeeeep.


to all the other stuff: 
"dude chill" 
just leave if u dont agree with the server. but after reading this, i think ull never ever find a perfect server that fits to you.

a RO server in its "early state", like less than 1  years old, will almost always have ALOT of changes, bugfixes, etc. to overcome , if they dont die within that 1 year.
i cant remember of ANY Ro server that i played, where there was not any form of "balance change", or bugfix or "abusefix" after its serverstart.
how can this be? shouldnt we all be the MASTERS OF THE RO UNIVERSE, after all these years?
nope, because this game is just so deep in terms of mechanics and strats.

ppls will always find a way, to cheese and try to get the maximum efford out of something - while still beeing in a legal/grey area.
and then a few months later, ppls adapt and cheese even more out of it - and thats where it got "broken" - in a way you might have not imagined before.
doesnt matter if its exp (like we had on RetRo) 
or any other thing  (like lootwise with the blue herbs on TravelsRo at its serverstart, where just a hand full of ppls "created" a few Millions of zeny, after the server was barely 10 days old)
and after all: it was the right thing to do (fix it) even if the damage was alrdy done. you have to think in the long run after all.

and while trying to fix those things (in general anything that may get wrong on a RO server) , you never can make 100% of your community statisfyed. 
doesnt matter if its retro, travels, or any other server currently or in the past.

its basicly a dead  game,  a classic gem, where normal ppls like you and me invest free time and their own money to run a server.
GMs can make things wrong, they are normal peoples, and yes they also have RealLife, family, and MAYBE even Friends  /heh
yet ppls think they can expect Company like behavior, 100man power support and the posibility to code inside the direct client and source, as they please.


i can understand that they feel like the "Minion spawn lvling" is more urgent to fix, (because ppls found out a even better strategy than the one they have tested)

The mdef bug that barely effects anything more than dmg number inside the two digit area - ofcause u set that to a lower priority to fix - because other problems are just more urgent


Raïner

Quote from: dahman on Sep 18, 2021, 01:36 AM
just for info:
theres a way to heal all majos w/o make the Sanc collapse to a single 777heal.
/ok
RO strats and its mechanics are deeeeeeeeeeeep.


to all the other stuff: 
"dude chill" 
just leave if u dont agree with the server. but after reading this, i think ull never ever find a perfect server that fits to you.

a RO server in its "early state", like less than 1  years old, will almost always have ALOT of changes, bugfixes, etc. to overcome , if they dont die within that 1 year.
i cant remember of ANY Ro server that i played, where there was not any form of "balance change", or bugfix or "abusefix" after its serverstart.
how can this be? shouldnt we all be the MASTERS OF THE RO UNIVERSE, after all these years?
nope, because this game is just so deep in terms of mechanics and strats.

ppls will always find a way, to cheese and try to get the maximum efford out of something - while still beeing in a legal/grey area.
and then a few months later, ppls adapt and cheese even more out of it - and thats where it got "broken" - in a way you might have not imagined before.
doesnt matter if its exp (like we had on RetRo) 
or any other thing  (like lootwise with the blue herbs on TravelsRo at its serverstart, where just a hand full of ppls "created" a few Millions of zeny, after the server was barely 10 days old)
and after all: it was the right thing to do (fix it) even if the damage was alrdy done. you have to think in the long run after all.

and while trying to fix those things (in general anything that may get wrong on a RO server) , you never can make 100% of your community statisfyed. 
doesnt matter if its retro, travels, or any other server currently or in the past.

its basicly a dead  game,  a classic gem, where normal ppls like you and me invest free time and their own money to run a server.
GMs can make things wrong, they are normal peoples, and yes they also have RealLife, family, and MAYBE even Friends  /heh
yet ppls think they can expect Company like behavior, 100man power support and the posibility to code inside the direct client and source, as they please.


i can understand that they feel like the "Minion spawn lvling" is more urgent to fix, (because ppls found out a even better strategy than the one they have tested)

The mdef bug that barely effects anything more than dmg number inside the two digit area - ofcause u set that to a lower priority to fix - because other problems are just more urgent

While i do understand your statement, this is a server review and were free to express our opinions about the server lol.

lungo

Quote from: dahman on Sep 18, 2021, 01:36 AM
just for info:
theres a way to heal all majos w/o make the Sanc collapse to a single 777heal.
/ok
RO strats and its mechanics are deeeeeeeeeeeep.


to all the other stuff: 
"dude chill" 
just leave if u dont agree with the server. but after reading this, i think ull never ever find a perfect server that fits to you.

a RO server in its "early state", like less than 1  years old, will almost always have ALOT of changes, bugfixes, etc. to overcome , if they dont die within that 1 year.
i cant remember of ANY Ro server that i played, where there was not any form of "balance change", or bugfix or "abusefix" after its serverstart.
how can this be? shouldnt we all be the MASTERS OF THE RO UNIVERSE, after all these years?
nope, because this game is just so deep in terms of mechanics and strats.

ppls will always find a way, to cheese and try to get the maximum efford out of something - while still beeing in a legal/grey area.
and then a few months later, ppls adapt and cheese even more out of it - and thats where it got "broken" - in a way you might have not imagined before.
doesnt matter if its exp (like we had on RetRo) 
or any other thing  (like lootwise with the blue herbs on TravelsRo at its serverstart, where just a hand full of ppls "created" a few Millions of zeny, after the server was barely 10 days old)
and after all: it was the right thing to do (fix it) even if the damage was alrdy done. you have to think in the long run after all.

and while trying to fix those things (in general anything that may get wrong on a RO server) , you never can make 100% of your community statisfyed. 
doesnt matter if its retro, travels, or any other server currently or in the past.

its basicly a dead  game,  a classic gem, where normal ppls like you and me invest free time and their own money to run a server.
GMs can make things wrong, they are normal peoples, and yes they also have RealLife, family, and MAYBE even Friends  /heh
yet ppls think they can expect Company like behavior, 100man power support and the posibility to code inside the direct client and source, as they please.


i can understand that they feel like the "Minion spawn lvling" is more urgent to fix, (because ppls found out a even better strategy than the one they have tested)

The mdef bug that barely effects anything more than dmg number inside the two digit area - ofcause u set that to a lower priority to fix - because other problems are just more urgent

This whole post is really just a combination of a thought terminatig cliché tactic to supress people thoughts and analisis of this bad situation and a Nirvana Fallacy to once again make people cross their arms and just do nothing about this situation. Highly suspicious that this person making this post is one of the exploit/bug abusers exposed here and wants people to stop talking about this.


Thought Terminating cliché: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thought-terminating_cliché

A thought-terminating cliché (also known as a semantic stop-sign, a thought-stopper, bumper sticker logic, or cliché thinking) is a form of loaded language, commonly used to quell cognitive dissonance.[1][2][3][4][5] Depending on context in which a phrase (or cliché) is used, it may actually be valid and not qualify as thought-terminating; it does qualify as such when its application intends to dismiss dissent or justify fallacious logic.[6] Its only function is to stop an argument from proceeding further, in other words "end the debate with a cliché... not a point."[2] The term was popularized by Robert Jay Lifton in his 1961 book Thought Reform and the Psychology of Totalism, who called the use of the cliché, along with "loading the language", as "The language of Non-thought".[1]

"dude chill"

"just leave if u dont agree"

"ull never ever find a perfect server"

"ppls will always find a way, to cheese"

"you never can make 100% of your community statisfyed"

"GMs can make things wrong, they are normal peoples"

"ppls think they can expect Company like behavior, 100man power support and the posibility to code inside the direct client and source, as they please" (This is also a Strawman fallacy, no one made this argument at all)

"its basicly a dead  game"

"The mdef bug that barely effects anything"

Basically: STOP THINKING, STOP EXPOSING THIS, PLEASE STOP TALKING ABOUT THIS.

Nirvana Fallacy: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nirvana_fallacy

The nirvana fallacy is the informal fallacy of comparing actual things with unrealistic, idealized alternatives.[1] It can also refer to the tendency to assume there is a perfect solution to a particular problem. A closely related concept is the "perfect solution fallacy."

By creating a false dichotomy that presents one option which is obviously advantageous—while at the same time being completely implausible—a person using the nirvana fallacy can attack any opposing idea because it is imperfect. Under this fallacy, the choice is not between real world solutions; it is, rather, a choice between one realistic achievable possibility and another unrealistic solution that could in some way be "better".


"a RO server in its "early state", like less than 1  years old, will almost always have ALOT of changes, bugfixes, etc. to overcome , if they dont die within that 1 year.
i cant remember of ANY Ro server that i played, where there was not any form of "balance change", or bugfix or "abusefix" after its serverstart.
how can this be? shouldnt we all be the MASTERS OF THE RO UNIVERSE, after all these years?
nope, because this game is just so deep in terms of mechanics and strats."

"ppls will always find a way, to cheese and try to get the maximum efford out of something - while still beeing in a legal/grey area.
and then a few months later, ppls adapt and cheese even more out of it - and thats where it got "broken" - in a way you might have not imagined before."

"and while trying to fix those things (in general anything that may get wrong on a RO server) , you never can make 100% of your community statisfyed.
doesnt matter if its retro, travels, or any other server currently or in the past."

Basically: "The game is imperfect, no server is ever going to be perfect, STOP ASKING FOR PERFECTION (no one has made this argument), people will always cheat, is not worth to fix anything because nothing will ever be perfect"

It is just as simple as that.

Here is the real argument:

About the Defense Bug:

They just need to fix it but they won't because they are too stubborn to change, they believe they are right but they aren't, it doesn't matter that I brought them tons of different sources and people that actually know the game mechanics.

This is one of the experts I contacted about this subject and what this person told me and this person is 100% correct:


About the Majorous exploit:

The GM's should have prevented this from happening, they allowed this exploit, they screwed up, they need to act and that form of action can come in this forms:

  • Ban de abusers
  • Rollback the people that benefited from this abuse
  • Make an EXP event for the legal players while they ban all the people that participated on this abuses during this event period so they don't benefit from this event
The more time passes I am starting to think that maybe this person is correct:
Quote from: InsomniacTV on Sep 17, 2021, 09:57 PM
They said it was ok while the players close to them were secretly abusing it for so long and of course they wont punish their favorites now that it got out

About the Bard out of era skills:

Just put them according to the episode we are, why are you changing a whole class to give a player this benefit so he doesn't leave? why are you not implementing Alchemist Homunculous then? because those are out of this episode you say?, but Bards already have this PRIVILEGE.


It is not impossible to fix, it is not impossible to act all we need is the GM's will to do this but so far it seems they indeed prefer their exploiter guilds than honest players so I can not recommend a server that bases all the desicions on the benefit of the few big guilds and doesn't take into account all the players feedback and interests.

Raïner

Call me a conspiracy guy or w/e fits your view, i dont think that ads and devs of retRO did a bad job tbh.
Its just that they listened to their top dogs way more than the usual players. Problem is, i played like 15 mins and i found a bunch of bugs like : no def/flee decrease while mobbing, 0 damage monster hit, mdef bug. I mean, in my longass years of playing ro, this is the first server that im able to outflee a pack of condors in training ground with 9 agi... Lol?
Now you have to wonder, why such basic problem of a bug that u could notice right away from starter, only get a fix after half a year?
1. GMs truly didnt know about the bugs, and theyre ignorant with players report ( dont think so ).

2. Abusers probably say to the dev team that its not a bug, and its what classic used to be ( very likely )

Sad to see such a potential going downhill, but im not gonna waste a huge chunks of hours to be on par with a bunch of 90+ in a few hours, its just not worth the effort.

lungo

This was just shared on Discord:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PP1a66GMpII


I honestly can not believe they will just do nothing about this other than fix the slave exploit that should have not be present at all. How can anyone play this server after this?, I just don't get it.

neethree

Quote from: lungo on Sep 17, 2021, 05:59 PM
No and this post is about RetRO.
My bad. Thought you were someone else. Never mind, you're the same guy after all.

When I played I remember thinking the GMs were absolutely insane when they were told "uh hey respawned slaves give EXP, you do know this right?" and they said "yeah we know, it's fine".  I don't think it's fair to call it exploiting though, it's not so much taking advantage of a bug or secretly doing something the GMs didn't know about, people were told it was intentional and it was fine, and they just powergamed the hell out of it until GMs went "wait no stop-".  Is it the fault of players, given the go-ahead, to maximise efficiency? The GMs stupidly left the doors open to an all you can eat buffet and said "take whatever you want" - sure, they realised it was busted and fixed it, but damn it's incredibly naïve to have overlooked and to have not thought "I wonder why all other current-day servers have disabled this?". Makes me think of exponentially splitting Mi Gaos, and servers that allow it without quite realising the pandora's box they're opening, lol.

NGL I love seeing this stuff. I'm a min-maxer and as a bystander, seeing people coordinating to form incredibly specific plans to squeeze out the absolute most effective progression that the game can possibly offer is always cool as hell.
Current Server(s):
None ;-;

lungo

Quote from: neethree on Sep 18, 2021, 05:14 PM
My bad. Thought you were someone else.

When I played I remember thinking the GMs were absolutely insane when they were told "uh hey respawned slaves give EXP, you do know this right?" and they said "yeah we know, it's fine".  I don't think it's fair to call it exploiting though, it's not so much taking advantage of a bug or secretly doing something the GMs didn't know about, people were told it was intentional and it was fine, and they just powergamed the hell out of it until GMs went "wait no stop-".  Is it the fault of players, given the go-ahead, to maximise efficiency? The GMs stupidly left the doors open to an all you can eat buffet and said "take whatever you want" - sure, they realised it was busted and fixed it, but damn it's incredibly naïve to have overlooked and to have not thought "I wonder why all other current-day servers have disabled this?". Makes me think of exponentially splitting Mi Gaos, and servers that allow it without quite realising the pandora's box they're opening, lol.

NGL I love seeing this stuff. I'm a min-maxer and as a bystander, seeing people coordinating to form incredibly specific plans to squeeze out the absolute most effective progression that the game can possibly offer is always cool as hell.

If it truly was out of "innocence" they whould have at least made a rollback because this compromised the entire server, people leveling up potter alchemist and forgers in 7 minutes is an exploit in x1, they leveled up multiple characters with this method, the server is completely compromised by this thing and they should have at least made a rollback but no.

So I can only conclude that they are letting this people get away with it because they are privileged people that get to exploit this kind of stuff more and more I am thinking this was intentional for a few to exploit and they never thought this was going to be used by a lot of people and when a lot more people were using it they just patched it and pretend nothing happened. Because I really don't understand why any owner of any server would just let this slide and think that the best path forward is to leave the server forever compromised by this and do nothing about it, whoever exploited it good, too bad for the honest players.

This also shows me that you can not trust the staff and the server because if this happened and they let it slide more things will happen and they will let those slide too.

Besides there is more stuff than this thing, the defense "bug" and they refusing to correct it is mind blowing, Bards being able to get out of episode skills but other classes having to wait patiently for the correct patch/episode that buffs them is just completely unfair, they even destroyed things like fire pillar or hunter traps... I guess we didn't make enough tantrum like that shameful bard that threatened to leave if they correctly placed the bard skills according to the episode we are, member of a guild of course, we individual players have been shown multiple times that we don't matter on RetRO, you only have a voice if you have a guild.

Shagaru

This is so cute.
Stop playing RO pls if u gonna cry everytime a group is smart about what they are doing in the game.
The game went through 20 years of getting the s*** meta'd out of it. Once a server gets competetive this is totally normal.
If ur frustrated that coordinated groups have a advantage don't play a server that restricts the amount of clients u can log.
Pulling whole maps and abusing 12x exptap + kim's or slave mobs like majo/owl baron or abusing ice wall is nothing new.
I can't really talk on the other stuff. But Steelbody is busted regardless with a pdodge /vit build.
If the Bard/Dancer thing is related to lingering songs its totally understandable why they left it in the game. It makes the class alot more fun.
GM's will play their own server. I think this was obviouse from the start. Yes to ensure the integrity they shouldn't reveal their position but sometimes it can't be helped. Some ppl just recognize u. Concerning custom changes that don't influence game balance. They made it clear from the start they are gonna avoid that. I can also understand why.
Adding day/night cycle/ custom color schemes or costumes all adds up. These things don't infulence the game but their goal is to maintain a old school feel so i can understand the logic behind avoiding a slope like that. Imo it is the most consistent u can get.
Guild Favorism is also nothing unusual. Ofc u will weight the combined and unified opinion of a group of players more than that of a single guy that might disagree with the next. A server needs Guilds for Woe and Competition. When Woe dies the server will die most of the time.
Also just blanket banning alot of people for using a game mechanic like that is a bad idea aswell. MvP Slaves have already been changed because of similar strategies but Mob And Miniboss Slaves were left out like this intentionally. Either way i think u should remember that retro is not a company selling u a game. They seem like a couple friends that just want to make a server they belive in which they can share with people. The review is fine but i felt very overdramatized. Since u love to argue with anyone giving their opinion in ur thread it seems more like ur butthurt than acctually beeing objective.

lungo

Quote from: Shagaru on Sep 18, 2021, 06:18 PM
This is so cute.
Stop playing RO pls if u gonna cry everytime a group is smart about what they are doing in the game.
The game went through 20 years of getting the s*** meta'd out of it. Once a server gets competetive this is totally normal.
If ur frustrated that coordinated groups have a advantage don't play a server that restricts the amount of clients u can log.
Pulling whole maps and abusing 12x exptap + kim's or slave mobs like majo/owl baron or abusing ice wall is nothing new.
I can't really talk on the other stuff. But Steelbody is busted regardless with a pdodge /vit build.
If the Bard/Dancer thing is related to lingering songs its totally understandable why they left it in the game. It makes the class alot more fun.
GM's will play their own server. I think this was obviouse from the start. Yes to ensure the integrity they shouldn't reveal their position but sometimes it can't be helped. Some ppl just recognize u. Concerning custom changes that don't influence game balance. They made it clear from the start they are gonna avoid that. I can also understand why.
Adding day/night cycle/ custom color schemes or costumes all adds up. These things don't infulence the game but their goal is to maintain a old school feel so i can understand the logic behind avoiding a slope like that. Imo it is the most consistent u can get.
Guild Favorism is also nothing unusual. Ofc u will weight the combined and unified opinion of a group of players more than that of a single guy that might disagree with the next. A server needs Guilds for Woe and Competition. When Woe dies the server will die most of the time.
Also just blanket banning alot of people for using a game mechanic like that is a bad idea aswell. MvP Slaves have already been changed because of similar strategies but Mob And Miniboss Slaves were left out like this intentionally. Either way i think u should remember that retro is not a company selling u a game. They seem like a couple friends that just want to make a server they belive in which they can share with people. The review is fine but i felt very overdramatized. Since u love to argue with anyone giving their opinion in ur thread it seems more like ur butthurt than acctually beeing objective.

You sound exactly like the person you are accusing me of being: "u love to argue with anyone giving their opinion", "it seems more like ur butthurt than acctually beeing objective."

How can you act as if you have a high moral ground when you yourself make attacking comments towards someone that has never spoken to you?, how can you criticize someone about not being objective when you talk in agressive tones out of nowhere?

"This is so cute. " Very objective statement not passive agressive at all and obviously with no ill intentions.

"Stop playing RO pls if u gonna cry everytime a group is smart about what they are doing in the game." Not only does this involve an appeal to ridicule fallacy it is also in essence a strawman fallacy and ultimatelly a thought terminating cliché. Is a complete missrepresentation of what happened and a very low attempt to ridicule someone for expressing concern about what happened. This is once again not Objective.

"If ur frustrated that coordinated groups have a advantage don't play a server that restricts the amount of clients u can log." Another Strawman, another complete missrepresentation of the actual argument and what truly happened, this is objective to you? it isn't.

"Pulling whole maps and abusing 12x exptap + kim's or slave mobs like majo/owl baron or abusing ice wall is nothing new. " A simple thought terminatig cliché that also once again missrepresents the situation.

"I can't really talk on the other stuff. But Steelbody is busted regardless with a pdodge /vit build. " Nirvana fallacy, since steelbody is already strong then we must completely ignore any bug that is tied to this skill because the skill is already too strong.

"If the Bard/Dancer thing is related to lingering songs its totally understandable why they left it in the game. It makes the class alot more fun." Ignoring completely that this server is supposed to be a classic server with seasonal updates that go though each episode. Many classes would be more fun if they had their future skills enabled like bard, for example Alchemist with Homunculous, this is basically a non argument because it ignores completely the reason why this argument even exist.

"Concerning custom changes that don't influence game balance. They made it clear from the start they are gonna avoid that. I can also understand why." except they haven't avoided them and the Bard custom change you are defending is one of them. This two last points show that you are just a contrarian, you have no real posture you just want to be contrarian to seek attention.

"Guild Favorism is also nothing unusual. Ofc u will weight the combined and unified opinion of a group of players more than that of a single guy that might disagree with the next. A server needs Guilds for Woe and Competition. When Woe dies the server will die most of the time." Typical mob mentality that ditches logic and reason. Contrary to what social media has taught you, objective reality, facts, science etc are not a democracy, your upvotes, your likes etc doesn't make you right and you can not make people wrong or the objective world change by throwing dislikes or dowvotes to the world. You are essentially saying that it is fine that they listen to the wrong people so long as they are more than the people that are correct.

"Also just blanket banning alot of people for using a game mechanic like that is a bad idea aswell." They could have opted for a rollback.


Neffletics

The majority of people here seem to have forgotten that this is a review based on Lungo's standards. If we put ourselves in the shoes of the opposing and defending parties, we can see that both have valid points.

As an administrator, your primary focus should be on what will keep the game enjoyable for everyone. Regardless of whether it is an official behavior, if it has an impact on the economy and overall balance, it should be changed. It's the same reason I removed the spawn drops from Byorgue's slaves (Sword Guardian and Bow Guardian) because I know players will take advantage of it to farm Orlean's Glove. So I completely understand why RetRO kept the song's behavior in its current state because reverting it to its earlier behavior makes no sense. However, the other issues raised should have been addressed right away.

solacero rip

Shagaru

byorgue slaves take like a day to respawn. That instant byorgue slave respawn was fixed on emulators long time ago.
The reason i have a issue with the review is because it feels to me like a overdramatized last ditch effort hit piece in disguise.
All the bug's hes complaining about were apperently already fixed.
And what he calls inconsistency by the server owner is just his own stubborness... refusing to accept a design decision.
Basicly like slinging around yesterdays s***  and demanding change while pretending to be compassionate.

The staff needs to get their act together, they can still save this server if they do the right thing: they need to correct the defence bug and carefully search if any other major bug is still present, they need to ban or at least rollback all the abusers of this Majorous exploit, and they need to STOP TRUSTING THEIR PLAYERS specially the ones that play on big guilds that are always the ones that destroy the servers, the ones that abuse bugs, and exploit the hell out of them and always are on a race to the next new bug or exploit to abuse. If anything I respect the effort of the Ragnarok Travels owner more in the fact that he does fight this big guild monopolization of the server, the staff of RetRO should learn from that, big guilds destroy servers, many of the dramas that have killed even official servers have been related to big guilds.

Comments like these are just red flags to me. Implying he and his complains are the ones to be trusted and the big guilds and others are untrustworthy.  I am also biased cause i know this guy. Overall it leaves me with a impression of bad faith.

The biggest issue he has is obviously the Majorus thing. He already said drops were removed and the strategy was prohibited no?
I just wanted to point out that many roads lead to rome so to say. Playing in a coordinated group there is many ways to exp very quickly and if that is his main issue he should look for another game. I can see how balance decisions like this aren't all that obviouse. They are trying to maintain the experiance of a old school classic feel that comes with its gross imbalances in gameplay. So where does it stop beeing alright for Mister Lungo. Should they remove the classic 25% exp tap aswell at some point only because he thinks its unfair?

lungo

Quote from: Neffletics on Sep 19, 2021, 06:12 AM
The majority of people here seem to have forgotten that this is a review based on Lungo's standards. If we put ourselves in the shoes of the opposing and defending parties, we can see that both have valid points.

As an administrator, your primary focus should be on what will keep the game enjoyable for everyone. Regardless of whether it is an official behavior, if it has an impact on the economy and overall balance, it should be changed. It's the same reason I removed the spawn drops from Byorgue's slaves (Sword Guardian and Bow Guardian) because I know players will take advantage of it to farm Orlean's Glove. So I completely understand why RetRO kept the song's behavior in its current state because reverting it to its earlier behavior makes no sense. However, the other issues raised should have been addressed right away.

Apparently I can not have standars dude and no one should have, we all should just bend over and accept everything.

I'm going to tell you why keeping the bards bugged is not ok: many people accepted to play on this server because they advertised and promised to be a classic server with a progression system, so with that comes classes that have changed, there are many classes that are not working to their full potential or are a chore to play because they don't have their skills updated or because they lack something, we all knew it was going to be like that, leaving the bards unfixed with post trans behavior is a HUGE slap in the face to all the people that were playing classes that are also "nerfed" in some ways due to the episode we are in, it's not fair, is exactly the same thing as Majoruous, some players played legally and leveled up normally like me, which took us days to get a level up and there is people that in 7 minutes in their own words leveled up potter alchemists etc. what this shows is that the GM's have a double standard, one for people like me and one for the big guilds.

I won't adress the provocateurs anymore because the only objective this people have is to derail this thread into a flame war or get it closed, since yesterday there is a clear coordinated attempt at this and I will just report this people, full of adhominem attacks, lies,strawmans, agressive behavior etc.

I do need to adress that it is a lie that RetRO already fixed the issues I presented on this review, the defense bug is still present and the last changelog reported only fixed the majorous slave exp behavior. The Defense bug is still there, the MDEF bug I mentioned here I myself mentioned it was already fixed but I had to mention it as part of my review for obvious reasons same with how the Bard gets out of episode skills. This is a review based on the state of the server at that point in time, it is ludicrous to think that I should change it based on future changes specially when the only fix they did was to change the slave exp exploit but they did nothing to fix the HUGE damage done by this exploit, so this is still a problem because the intention of reporting this exploit was to show the damage caused by this, the receits are there, I put them on the main post, screenshots of the confesions of people that talked about how they took advantage of it you could always go to discord and search them yourself, there is video evidence which was also posted on discord and an image of the exp this people were getting also took from discord, so anyone that doesn't believe can go to the discord, to the source and see that I am not making anything up.

InsomniacTV

Quote from: Shagaru on Sep 19, 2021, 09:04 AM
The biggest issue he has is obviously the Majorus thing. He already said drops were removed and the strategy was prohibited no?
I just wanted to point out that many roads lead to rome so to say. Playing in a coordinated group there is many ways to exp very quickly and if that is his main issue he should look for another game. I can see how balance decisions like this aren't all that obviouse. They are trying to maintain the experiance of a old school classic feel that comes with its gross imbalances in gameplay. So where does it stop beeing alright for Mister Lungo. Should they remove the classic 25% exp tap aswell at some point only because he thinks its unfair?
Something as major as Monster mdef didnt work since server start and the def bug is still there. The exp tap isnt a bug and you cant go to lv80 to lv90 in some hours so its unfair for you to compare it to all of the major issues with the server

The Majorous Exploit was fixed after the insider guilds close to staff abused it for months and they let them which is an unfair double standard... most normal players didnt know about it because its not intuitive and was obviously not intended to level that fast. The server is messed up beyond belief now and I dont think it can be fixed without bans or looong rollback

lungo

I'm having dialogue with the GM's at the moment I will post an update soon, report the people that are trying to stir drama with false accusations, conspiracies etc.

Shuchou

Quote from: lungo on Sep 18, 2021, 05:50 PM
If it truly was out of "innocence" they whould have at least made a rollback because this compromised the entire server, people leveling up potter alchemist and forgers in 7 minutes is an exploit in x1, they leveled up multiple characters with this method, the server is completely compromised by this thing and they should have at least made a rollback but no.
Quote from: lungo on Sep 16, 2021, 12:47 PM
For the record, the person I am replying to is one of the people that benefitted from this Majorous exploit, benefitted from the Monk bug and from the Bard having out of era skills and if I remember correctly this person is the main one that made a tantrum to the staff and said he would quit if they fixed the bard skills. This person is member of the Trap Lovers guild.

So of course this people will always try to gaslight others into believing that they did nothing wrong and they can't be blamed for engaging in bad behavior.

Looking at the servers ranking page I only see 4 blacksmiths over level 90 and 2 alchemists level 90+ which months ago was about the same. So if your blind statement was true there would be far more blacksmiths/alchemists over level 90, as the remaining rank slots quickly drop to level 70 in the top 20 displayed. Also at one point you called out the guild Trap lovers, yet looking at the class rankings not many of their members are in the top 20. If it was abused for months wouldn't there be a full list of level 99's in the servers ranking for each class? Honestly seems more like blowing things way out of line to stroke your ego and slander a server.

Quote from: lungo on Sep 17, 2021, 01:14 PM
It is really sad that people actually defend this garbage, probably another bug abuser himself or a fanboy in denial.

Now you even claimed I most be an abuser on the server, the highest level character I have on retRO at the moment is 73. I play across multiple servers and retRO is on the backburner for me until it has a bigger player base. So claiming I am white knighting or fanboying is just a poor tactic to try dodging logical truth against your overly dramatized slander(s).  So everyone can even check the rankings their self https://retro-online.eu/ranking/char  for being 9months in, looks pretty close to what you would expect to see. Nothing wrong with disagreeing with how the devs go about things on their server and or no longer wanting to play it, but stretching the truth and falsely pointing fingers at people just because they say otherwise is rather sad and sounds a lot like another 1x server owners tactic to justify themselves.