RateMyServer Ragnarok Community

I will start saying that I am grateful to the staff for making the server possible and for a time this truly IMO was the best classic server, it actually felt like playing classic, the main reason I choose to play here than Travels was because the owner of Travels banned multiple people for telling him that firewall didn't worked correctly something that later he admitted and ninja corrected himself, and that to me showed someone that was basically a tyrant also Travels even emulates "fake lag" meaning if you get hit even once you get stun locked to death, that is execive IMO so I decided to play RetRO.

It was a good desicion because the staff actually listened, they were helpful and honestly I just liked the guys because they even tolerate a lot of stuff that other people wouldn't, it is not easy for them to lash onto their users, they are not vindictive and they are honestly good people, with good intentions.

What changed?

Well nothing really, the staff is the same as they were but it is more the accumulation of many things that as a whole have ruined the experience for me and I have to touch them individually and explain them:

• Bad economy-The economy has always been bad and it is actually a nightmare to sell something, we are playing on x1 rates, so zenny and items are too valuable, people want to sell expensive and buy cheap on a 100 REAL population (it says 200 but half those are merchants) it is impossible, to the point that people started using ellunium as a currency instead of zenny, this situation makes the whole market really hostile with everyone selling super expensive, people get mad about it, nothing sells, people get mad about it, it is just a bad economy and this is because we lack people, x1 rates were never meant for 100 players so it honestly feels like we are playing a glorified single player game, you farm what you need and barely engage in the economy


• Inconsistent desicions-They staff is really inconsistent in the changes they implement, they say they want to be classic but then they make changes to the game that are NOT classic whenever they see fit and then people suggest something that is not classic but could be a great change and they outright refuse it because "it´s not classic", "what?! but a moment ago you just made this non classic addition to the game like male husbands being able to give SP" is just really inconsistent and arbitrary, for example they just don't want to add color to clothing because "it hurts class identity" they say and honestly I have never heard a more silly excuse and this does hurts immersion with everyone looking the damn same

Now to the really bad stuff

• Guild favoritism-Many people believe there is guild favoritism and there was even a time in which a member of a guild was a GM that was later removed because people weren't having it.It is good that they actually listened to the people but it doesn't change the fact that this actually happened and it is just not fair, I feel like big guilds in general are always listened to and they are the ones that are ruining this server IMO (more of this later) and we the players that don't even have a guild and are just minding our own business get shafted
• Bards get to have out of episode skills-I forgot about this one but the staff made a mistake and bards essentially have post trans skill behavior, when they were notified about it the bards that played made a tantrum about it (Trap Lover members) and they decided to not fix it and allow them to have out of episode skill behavior, this is another example of inconsistent application of "classic" and once again the staff bends the knee to the pressure of people that have no scruples.
• Guilds have the privilege to get a shared account to make "guild brewers and guild Blacksmiths" probably even endow Sages- They made the whole guild account to share alchemist and blacksmith defeating the whole purpose of a no multi account server, this guilds demanded a personal brewer and blacksmith, the argument against this was presented that solo players would not have a chance against this guilds in the rankings and they didn't give a damn for them, the argument that it hurts player interaction in a social MMO was presented too about how guilds should hire real players playing this classes (brewer, smith) was also discarded. Imagine you are a company and you needed an engineer for it, would you demand the government to supply one for you or would you start a hiring effort? so much for the "social" aspect being back with "no multi accounts".
• Monk having out of episode buffs - came as a suprise to me because Monk litterally has no room to complain about not having alternatives, they can level as combo, as throw spirit spheres (which is buffed on the episode we are), they can be tanks or be MVP killers... so why buff occult impact? SIMPLE: to make guild WOE Monks easier to level up, once again showing that guilds are pulling the strings.
• Monk Mental strenght 0 damage-There was a bug that involved monks being able to use mental strenght and receive 0 damage, thus essentially being able to "flee" through defense and vit alone and I don't know how many people abused of this bug but there was a particular guild called Trap Lovers that abused this and they didn't communicated to the staff about it, they talked to them about it but they were never clear to the staff and like I said, the staff are good guys they trust their players (they shouldn't) and they just said they were not going to change the behavior BUT THEY DIDN'T ACTUALLY KNOW WHAT THIS BUG ABUSERS WERE DOING because this abusers never accuratelly communicated that they managed to achieve 0 damage on a mental strenght bug and when the staff actually found out what this guys were doing they changed it and this guild and his leader started making drama about it, the staff even offered them a reset to their monk so they could adapt to the change and they prefered to act as victims and basically ask for the bug to stay, imagine asking that with a straight face and making a tantrum to the staff because they were fixing this... They should have banned all this people that abused this they were probably afraid of losing players I understand that but their reaction to this abuses is always really weak
• MDEF bug- this hit me hard as a magic class. Turns out mobs had their magic defense not working all this time since the server launch... I just can't fathom how a bug like this gets overlooked, I just don't understand and this to me shows that the staff is really inexperienced with how ragnarok works... I just accepted this fix because I couldn't go like the previous example and pitifully ask the staff to not fix this because it affected me so I took it like a man and accepted that this had to be fixed with no complaints, I liked the server so I was willing to tolerate this situation
• The mobbing problem and Defence stat not being reduced when attacked by multiple mobs-This is actually a pretty big one, Defense is not being reduced while being attacked by multiple mobs, many sources state that BOTH hard and soft defence are reduced the more mobs hit you, I have gathered many sources and I am 100% sure that this is not working correctly on RetRO, you can see a mere swordman gathering the entire anthell dungeon only receiving 1 damage per mob, that is something I never saw when playing ragnarok in my life, this just only gets worse because when that swordman becomes Knight or Crusader they just keep mobbing without any penalties, this means that if you are a FLEE character you are screwed because FLEE does reduce when being attacked by multiple mobs, mobbing has been rampant the entire server life and most mobbers are rude, gather the entire map and barelly leave anything for the other people on the map, I tried explaining to the staff that if it feels that way to a mage class that has Creamy card and thus I can basically infinitely teleport until I find something to kill then it must be HORRIBLE to other people, specially new people that rely on fly wings or can't even aford flywings to find their mobs, they do have a rule about over mobbing but it feels inconsistent in the way they apply it to people and no wonder this is happening, if Defence is not working correctly you see this knights and crusaders not even needing a priest to mob at all, they receive really low damage and can do it constantly. The staff insist this is working as intended no matter ho much sources I brought to them so this really pisses me off.This is going to get fixed according to them, too little too late but it is something I guess.
• The MAJOROUS EXPLOIT- This is the last straw, the last drop. I just can't... for months many BIG GUILDS have abused this exploit to power level multiple characters and get characters to lvl 99, they have an "strat" to basically abuse slave spawning, they kill the slaves and heal the "boss" one so he keeps spawning minions, I don't exactly know how they did it but it was 100% an exploit and the staff said "it was ok" and now they changed their mind when they actually realized how bad it was but they will not punish anyone for doing this and this whole situation feels like a middle finger to players like me that play legit that never try to find ways to exploit the game ot ways to get advantage illegally over others, we are screwed while this people go and search for the next new exploit only for the gms to allow it and not punish anyone. I just can't condone this, I'm sorry but this is way too much for me.

The staff needs to get their act together, they can still save this server if they do the right thing: they need to correct the defence bug and carefully search if any other major bug is still present, they need to ban or at least rollback all the abusers of this Majorous exploit, and they need to STOP TRUSTING THEIR PLAYERS specially the ones that play on big guilds that are always the ones that destroy the servers, the ones that abuse bugs, and exploit the hell out of them and always are on a race to the next new bug or exploit to abuse. If anything I respect the effort of the Ragnarok Travels owner more in the fact that he does fight this big guild monopolization of the server, the staff of RetRO should learn from that, big guilds destroy servers, many of the dramas that have killed even official servers have been related to big guilds.

I can not recommend RetRO if anything of what you have read displeases you, it is a great server and the staff are good people but they need to get their act together and currently I can not recommend the server.

I am sorry I have to leave this review but it is needed, someone needs to raise this criticism becasue criticism makes things better and this review is in the hopes the staff will improve, I don't want the server to die but sadly that is not on my hands. I made this review in the most respectful manner I could to the staff becasue I am still grateful for their efforts to bring this server to us but I can not act in blind faith, I can not just blind myself to this issues.

Edit: Added the Bards get to have out of episode skills point.

Edit 2: Adding some evidence for context of how bad the Majorous exploit was:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=midl932EYy8 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=midl932EYy8)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PP1a66GMpII (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PP1a66GMpII)

(https://i.ibb.co/c1Wzcnq/list-of-discord-comments.png) (https://ibb.co/c1Wzcnq)

(https://i.ibb.co/1vgst66/majobug.png) (https://ibb.co/1vgst66)

Edit 3: It is not impossible to fix, it is not impossible to act all we need is the GM's will to do this but so far it seems they indeed prefer their exploiter guilds than honest players so I can not recommend a server that bases all the desicions on the benefit of the few big guilds and doesn't take into account all the players feedback and interests.

Edit 4: Added that Monks too have out of episode skills... what do you know?

EDIT 5: THE GM'S JUST KICKED ME FROM THEIR DISCORD AND WILL PROBABLY BAN ME INGAME FOR EXPOSING THIS SITUATION (Mind you I did absolutely nothing on discord or ingame to get this ban, this is 100% lashing out for making this review, I could not write on discord because I had a limited role that I chose to have so I could only write on the market section since at least April and I never did anything ingame to deserve a ban, never even brought this review ingame once to anyone). Now i trully can't recommend this server at all, if the staff is willing to kick a person and ban them like this for exposing their problems and expect them to fix them, they are not worth your time.

Edit 6: Well it's over guys, if you want a server where you can be banned for exposing the problems it has in the hopes it gets fixed and fighting to get a fair play server for everyone then I guess play RetRO but you obviously don't want that, basically you have to be a "yes man" for being able to play there.

Edit 7:

This will be my last post on this topic and if the moderators decide to close it i don't mind, it has been invaded by trolls etc and I will not engage in such low behavior, I could post DM's too and expose people but I am above that, I respect people's right for privacy.

All I'm going to say I know I am not the best person and have a lot to change but I made this review with my heart because I cared for the server, there is objectivity and an emotional part on that review, I invested a lot into the server(me and my Girlfriend actually, and the GM's know this to be correct), months of my life that won't come back and I just wanted things to be better, I wanted the staff to act and do something but ultimatelly they just will going to ban me, I will not insult them or attack them (or expose their personal data), I don't agree with the way they are lashing on me or their resolution and even if this is what I got for my months of loyalty it's ok I'll live.

People get mad at me because I counter argument their disagreements etc. what am I supposed to do? just don't counter them so people don't get offended that I have better arguments than them?, I believe I didn't engaged in personal attacks with anyone here but if somehow you feel offended by something I said I am sorry. I won't though apologize for being good at debating.

I hope the review doesn't get deleted because that is the purpose of all this late spam going on.

The end.

Edit 8:

The ban has been applied to my account:

(https://i.ibb.co/frq7TQg/Sin-t-tulo.png) (https://ibb.co/frq7TQg)

Any player that wants to play on this server or planned to should remember that demanding a fair game for everyone will get you banned, if you expose the staff of this server mistakes and blatant favoritism toward certain group of players you will get banned

You need to understand that this server from the beginning showed blatand favoritism to guilds and every desicion is made for the benefit of them, I never thought it would be to the level of covering up blatant exp exploits and banning honest players for asking for fair play, we all agreed on x1 rates server, we never agreed that it would be only for certain people and those abusers would get the benefit of exploiting the game with no consequences, in the end this hurts more the server than me, not only do this ban makes them look terrible on the eyes of the people but the exploiters they are protecting WILL destroy the server, mark my words, those people won't stop at this, they will do more damage and ultimately the server will die. It's already hard to make people play on x1 servers and will be more difficult for them to join this one after this post knowing that not only that they ban innocent people but they also protect exploiters.

I did what I had to do, from the beginning of creating this review I knew this was going to end like this, I knew the risks of exposing this situation, I'm no saint but I have certain degree of integrity and moral values that can't compromise for a game (a high seas server), I care for the server and I did what I had to do, it was never in my hands to make the change, I said that from the beginning I regret nothing, I would do this again, I would fight the fight again because just being quiet and compliant serves no purpose. I have nothing more to say or add, I know people will still come to justify this situation, it doesn't matter, the evidence is here, the facts are on my side and this is now truly the end, everyone should just move on but never forget this happened.

I am at peace.

Edit 9:
Just minor addition to add an explanation about the guild shared accounts and what they entail

I've played on the server for half a year actively but haven't touched it for a couple of months due to personal reasons. Still, I felt like interjecting since it feels like you're taking things too far.

I absolutely agree with your first two points. The economy is atrocious because just as you said, x1 drop rates weren't meant for such a small population. Getting basic supplies like elunium is hellish. Likewise the staff is very inconsistent with their decisions and it is something which brought me into conflicts with them.

Your other points though, I disagree with. You cannot blame players for making use of the available mechanics when the staff itself condones it.

The principal issue I see is that the staff is too keen on trying to emulate euRO's state from ages ago, but there are simply no clear sources on how exactly things are supposed to be. Many of the design choices come from speculation of unclear sources such as vague waybackmachine pages from 2004, and some of them are plain wrong or just don't work at all. All those complaints about broken/incorrect mechanics simply stem from this dissonance.
Likewise the staff had to compromise on some things which aren't episode-correct such as letting performer songs linger, because otherwise nobody would play those jobs.

I believe it is simply a fool's errand to try and blindly pursue something about which there's no clear information available, and I also don't think that dealing with borderline broken or very clunky mechanics is what players are looking for when they want their nostalgia fix.


Criticism aside, I commend the staff on putting the time and effort into running a server which is absolutely donation-free while trying to follow their own vision.

Quote from: Mistral on Sep 16, 2021, 12:42 PM


Your other points though, I disagree with. You cannot blame players for making use of the available mechanics when the staff itself condones it.

I can blame both, people that always try to find ways to get advantage and the staff being afraid to punish players because they are afraid of losing them.

For the record, the person I am replying to is one of the people that benefitted from this Majorous exploit, benefitted from the Monk bug and from the Bard having out of era skills and if I remember correctly this person is the main one that made a tantrum to the staff and said he would quit if they fixed the bard skills. This person is member of the Trap Lovers guild.

So of course this people will always try to gaslight others into believing that they did nothing wrong and they can't be blamed for engaging in bad behavior.

Look, you're just being petty and blinded by indignation now.

Quote from: lungo on Sep 16, 2021, 12:47 PM
For the record, the person I am replying to is one of the people that benefitted from this Majorous exploit, benefitted from the Monk bug

I have not benefited from any "bug" knowingly, and my bard has leveled almost exclusively off killing MVPs plus farming gear.

Quote from: lungo on Sep 16, 2021, 12:47 PM
and from the Bard having out of era skills and if I remember correctly this person is the main one that made a tantrum to the staff and said he would quit if they fixed the bard skills.

I have spent months leveling and gearing up my character with the assumption that my skills are working as intended, as there was absolutely nothing saying that they aren't, certainly not the server's info page which listed all the changes to skills and mechanics. It isn't my fault for not knowing how things were supposed to work on euRO 17 years ago, it was the staff's responsibility to communicate things properly.
Yes, I was indeed going to stop playing that character or possibly quit if the change went through, because it would have meant that months of my and my companion's hard work have been wasted, and that my character was now borderline worthless outside of being a song slave.

I recommend you to chill for a bit and then look at things objectively.

Quote from: Mistral on Sep 16, 2021, 01:11 PM
Look, you're just being petty and blinded by indignation now.
I have not benefited from any "bug" knowingly, and my bard has leveled almost exclusively off killing MVPs plus farming gear.
I have spent months leveling and gearing up my character with the assumption that my skills are working as intended, as there was absolutely nothing saying that they aren't, certainly not the server's info page which listed all the changes to skills and mechanics. It isn't my fault for not knowing how things were supposed to work on euRO 17 years ago, it was the staff's responsibility to communicate things properly.
Yes, I was indeed going to stop playing that character or possibly quit if the change went through, because it would have meant that months of my and my companion's hard work have been wasted, and that my character was now borderline worthless outside of being a song slave.

I recommend you to chill for a bit and then look at things objectively.

You are a member of one of the guilds that abused bugs and exploits so how do I know you didn't participated? I don't. it is safe to assume you did.

The magic defense bug affected me and the staff corrected it, was I supposed to make a tantrum to not get it fixed or I would quit? you are receiving a PRIVILEGE that a lot of us are not, why do you get to have a bug enabled just so you don't leave and many like me have to shut up and endure it?, the mature thing was to accept the fix, you can not talk to me with your tone pretending you are better than me when you are not, you engaged in shameful behavior to get away with having your class to stay bugged.

GMs are always subject to guild favoritism because admins like us believe that these players are better able to explore the game than solo players. As a result, whatever they report is likely to be considered reliable. However, the development team should be familiar with the common behaviors of things in that episode, or at the very least have someone who acts as a "peer reviewer" to ensure a smooth implementation.

When the population is at stake, GMs are sometimes forced to compromise. However, it's always a good idea to consider the gray area that a decision will create if they choose to go with it. There is no such thing as a perfect decision, and others will always make sacrifices, but as long as the reason is ethical, I'm confident the community will understand.

I had this experience with a big guild when they threatened to leave my server after I disqualified them for breaking a WoE rule. They even spammed negative reviews on our RMS page and caused drama in the group after they left. When you side with these types of people, you will lose your most devoted players.

It is not the players' fault that the game had a bug, but it is the players' responsibility to communicate unusual things in the game, especially if it makes some features too easy. Server stability is a shared responsibility of the admins and the players, because we admins won't be able to monitor the server 24/7, so if something looks suspicious or doesn't work as it should, it should be reported immediately.

RetRO is still a good server, and I don't believe they (the staff) have any ill will toward the community. It's great that Lungo wrote it objectively. I hope the administrators read it and learn from their mistakes moving forward.

Quote from: Neffletics on Sep 16, 2021, 02:16 PM
GMs are always subject to guild favoritism because admins like us believe that these players are better able to explore the game than solo players. As a result, whatever they report is likely to be considered reliable. However, the development team should be familiar with the common behaviors of things in that episode, or at the very least have someone who acts as a "peer reviewer" to ensure a smooth implementation.

When the population is at stake, GMs are sometimes forced to compromise. However, it's always a good idea to consider the gray area that a decision will create if they choose to go with it. There is no such thing as a perfect decision, and others will always make sacrifices, but as long as the reason is ethical, I'm confident the community will understand.

I had this experience with a big guild when they threatened to leave my server after I disqualified them for breaking a WoE rule. They even spammed negative reviews on our RMS page and caused drama in the group after they left. When you side with these types of people, you will lose your most devoted players.

It is not the players' fault that the game had a bug, but it is the players' responsibility to communicate unusual things in the game, especially if it makes some features too easy. Server stability is a shared responsibility of the admins and the players, because we admins won't be able to monitor the server 24/7, so if something looks suspicious or doesn't work as it should, it should be reported immediately.

RetRO is still a good server, and I don't believe they (the staff) have any ill will toward the community. It's great that Lungo wrote it objectively. I hope the administrators read it and learn from their mistakes moving forward.

Yeah I believe that this bug abusers/exploiters are taking advantage of the good will of the GM's and their fear of losing players (which I understand they are a small server) but while they do this and this people remain unpunished people that don't engage in this behavior will more and more feel that this is an unfair treatment and this big guilds are getting privileges (which they are getting) and people like me that are individuals and speak for themselves don't really feel like we matter to the staff anymore.

People like me just want to enjoy the game as it was, we are along with the staff for the ride and we understand nothing will ever be perfect but stuff starts to pile up and suddenly is not a little thing but a big tower of little things piled together and then on top of that this guilds do whatever they want unchecked, they don't receive punishment and they just don't care and go to find the next exploit to abuse because they know they will get away with it.

And yeah, they should really know the game, the current defence bug and the mdef bug look like a really rookie mistake to be honest, the mdef bug is fixed, it affected me but I didn't noticed myself so I can't fully blame them but now that there is evidence of the defense one they just don't want to acknowledge it.

And also yes, I don't believe they have any ill will towards anyone and they are nice people that are making a whole lot of mistakes and someone needs to give them this though love so they can correct their way if they are willing to listen because I don't want the server to fail.

Joined retRO for 2 months+ and stopped playing as well. Seeing people talking in general that they got from 75->90 in an hour and the whole party received 75mil+ exp solely at Majoruros while i grind my donkey off soloing for several hours just to get 1 lvl really killed my motivation to play.

The PC environment there is quite ridiculous as well, also guild favorism is a thing. Its too late to fix a problem that has been going on for half a year, no fatigue, no hitlock, no def/flee decrease while mobbing, 0 damage bug ( MS Monk )

Its sad to see such a potential went to waste. Ill just wait for a new server to play with

Quote from: lungo on Sep 16, 2021, 12:47 PM
I can blame both, people that always try to find ways to get advantage and the staff being afraid to punish players because they are afraid of losing them.

For the record, the person I am replying to is one of the people that benefitted from this Majorous exploit, benefitted from the Monk bug and from the Bard having out of era skills and if I remember correctly this person is the main one that made a tantrum to the staff and said he would quit if they fixed the bard skills. This person is member of the Trap Lovers guild.

So of course this people will always try to gaslight others into believing that they did nothing wrong and they can't be blamed for engaging in bad behavior.

Also u forgot to mention that by giving tantrum and making quit threats, he received a stat reset to remake his monk into vit/int MS, and that will last thru endgame for MVP content, kappa.

Quote from: felixvu on Sep 17, 2021, 08:40 AM
Joined retRO for 2 months+ and stopped playing as well. Seeing people talking in general that they got from 75->90 in an hour and the whole party received 75mil+ exp solely at Majoruros while i grind my donkey off soloing for several hours just to get 1 lvl really killed my motivation to play.

The PC environment there is quite ridiculous as well, also guild favorism is a thing. Its too late to fix a problem that has been going on for half a year, no fatigue, no hitlock, no def/flee decrease while mobbing, 0 damage bug ( MS Monk )

Its sad to see such a potential went to waste. Ill just wait for a new server to play with

Yeah that was what makes me really not want to play either, it takes me days to get a single level only for this exploiters to get in an hour what took me months and the staff doesn't want to rollback or punish those people, well I can't continue to play like this because this shows that this people will get away with everything they do and they care more about this guilds than individual players like me that are in for the ride with them and not no exploit their server and exploit their good will.

Quote from: felixvu on Sep 17, 2021, 09:40 AM
Also u forgot to mention that by giving tantrum and making quit threats, he received a stat reset to remake his monk into vit/int MS, and that will last thru endgame for MVP content, kappa.

Well I knew they offered them a reset and I put that info on the main post but I don't exactly know how they rebuild the character.

When the MDEF bug was fixed I asked Deja for a reset so i could adjust my stats since I was prioritizing other stats than Int, I would have eventually recovered my damage regardless but I just asked because well why not? but he didn't even said no to me, he ignored me. For the record I wasn't going to alter my build I was just going to switch a few points from Agi to Int, just so people don't take this out of context and start assuming I asked for some unreasonable thing.

It feels like if you are not a member of a big guild you just don't matter.

Quote from: lungo on Sep 17, 2021, 10:07 AM
Well I knew they offered them a reset and I put that info on the main post but I don't exactly know how they rebuild the character.

When the MDEF bug was fixed I asked Deja for a reset so i could adjust my stats since I was prioritizing other stats than Int, I would have eventually recovered my damage regardless but I just asked because well why not? but he didn't even said no to me, he ignored me. For the record I wasn't going to alter my build I was just going to switch a few points from Agi to Int, just so people don't take this out of context and start assuming I asked for some unreasonable thing.

It feels like if you are not a member of a big guild you just don't matter.

Ro was never meant to be a solo game by default. But the mechanics of no fatigue/hitlock/def-mded mobbing reduction really puts out party play far more superior than soloer.

Basically if u dont have friends to play with, feel free to be a beta cuck for the rest of your ro experience

Quote from: felixvu on Sep 17, 2021, 08:40 AM
Joined retRO for 2 months+ and stopped playing as well. Seeing people talking in general that they got from 75->90 in an hour and the whole party received 75mil+ exp solely at Majoruros while i grind my donkey off soloing for several hours just to get 1 lvl really killed my motivation to play.

The PC environment there is quite ridiculous as well, also guild favorism is a thing. Its too late to fix a problem that has been going on for half a year, no fatigue, no hitlock, no def/flee decrease while mobbing, 0 damage bug ( MS Monk )

Its sad to see such a potential went to waste. Ill just wait for a new server to play with

About the fast leveling bit, when you have a full party semi geared right for the area you are farming/grinding you can gain massive amount of XP. Also there is a 25% mob tap bonus on retRO, so the more AoE damage dealers your party has the more xp the party gets. However I'm pretty sure they were there for more then an hour as even with 175% tap bonus(8players hitting) that would be 5,028 Majoruro to gain 75mil xp. With there only being 40 of them on a map that would be 100% impossible to do in an hour, as you would need to be killing 83-84 Majoruros a minute which the map doesn't support. Have to remember most players don't pay attention to how long they spent grinding when they are having fun, what felt like an hour could of been 4 to 8 hours, plus there are players that like to falsely brag about things they accomplished to make themselves seem cool/special/hardcore to those around them.

Just as a side note 6 to 8 hours with a full semi geared for the area party could pull off 75mil exp from Majoruros. RO was never meant to be a fast grind as a solo, not even official pre-trans servers. You were always going to level slower then a group of players no matter how much gear you have for that one character. Old MMORPG's like RO were aimed at team work, renewal changed RO to solo online due to players wanting easy mode gameplay as years past.

Quote from: Shuchou on Sep 17, 2021, 12:12 PM
About the fast leveling bit, when you have a full party semi geared right for the area you are farming/grinding you can gain massive amount of XP. Also there is a 25% mob tap bonus on retRO, so the more AoE damage dealers your party has the more xp the party gets. However I'm pretty sure they were there for more then an hour as even with 175% tap bonus(8players hitting) that would be 5,028 Majoruro to gain 75mil xp. With there only being 40 of them on a map that would be 100% impossible to do in an hour, as you would need to be killing 83-84 Majoruros a minute which the map doesn't support. Have to remember most players don't pay attention to how long they spent grinding when they are having fun, what felt like an hour could of been 4 to 8 hours, plus there are players that like to falsely brag about things they accomplished to make themselves seem cool/special/hardcore to those around them.

Just as a side note 6 to 8 hours with a full semi geared for the area party could pull off 75mil exp from Majoruros. RO was never meant to be a fast grind as a solo, not even official pre-trans servers. You were always going to level slower then a group of players no matter how much gear you have for that one character. Old MMORPG's like RO were aimed at team work, renewal changed RO to solo online due to players wanting easy mode gameplay as years past.

Yeah that was IF you kill the majos. Basically theyre just cheesing it by putting sanc to heal majos while majos just respawn minorous which gives exp.

Quote from: Shuchou on Sep 17, 2021, 12:12 PM
About the fast leveling bit, when you have a full party semi geared right for the area you are farming/grinding you can gain massive amount of XP. Also there is a 25% mob tap bonus on retRO, so the more AoE damage dealers your party has the more xp the party gets. However I'm pretty sure they were there for more then an hour as even with 175% tap bonus(8players hitting) that would be 5,028 Majoruro to gain 75mil xp. With there only being 40 of them on a map that would be 100% impossible to do in an hour, as you would need to be killing 83-84 Majoruros a minute which the map doesn't support. Have to remember most players don't pay attention to how long they spent grinding when they are having fun, what felt like an hour could of been 4 to 8 hours, plus there are players that like to falsely brag about things they accomplished to make themselves seem cool/special/hardcore to those around them.

Just as a side note 6 to 8 hours with a full semi geared for the area party could pull off 75mil exp from Majoruros. RO was never meant to be a fast grind as a solo, not even official pre-trans servers. You were always going to level slower then a group of players no matter how much gear you have for that one character. Old MMORPG's like RO were aimed at team work, renewal changed RO to solo online due to players wanting easy mode gameplay as years past.

It is really sad that people actually defend this garbage, probably another bug abuser himself or a fanboy in denial.

Let's post some of the evidence that appeared on Discord:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=midl932EYy8 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=midl932EYy8)

(https://i.ibb.co/c1Wzcnq/list-of-discord-comments.png) (https://ibb.co/c1Wzcnq)

(https://i.ibb.co/1vgst66/majobug.png) (https://ibb.co/1vgst66)

This can not be overlooked and if the GM's really don't take action against this people I can't justify myself playing the server anymore.

Quote from: Shuchou on Sep 17, 2021, 12:12 PM
About the fast leveling bit, when you have a full party semi geared right for the area you are farming/grinding you can gain massive amount of XP. Also there is a 25% mob tap bonus on retRO, so the more AoE damage dealers your party has the more xp the party gets. However I'm pretty sure they were there for more then an hour as even with 175% tap bonus(8players hitting) that would be 5,028 Majoruro to gain 75mil xp. With there only being 40 of them on a map that would be 100% impossible to do in an hour, as you would need to be killing 83-84 Majoruros a minute which the map doesn't support. Have to remember most players don't pay attention to how long they spent grinding when they are having fun, what felt like an hour could of been 4 to 8 hours, plus there are players that like to falsely brag about things they accomplished to make themselves seem cool/special/hardcore to those around them.

Just as a side note 6 to 8 hours with a full semi geared for the area party could pull off 75mil exp from Majoruros. RO was never meant to be a fast grind as a solo, not even official pre-trans servers. You were always going to level slower then a group of players no matter how much gear you have for that one character. Old MMORPG's like RO were aimed at team work, renewal changed RO to solo online due to players wanting easy mode gameplay as years past.

Even so, that should have been addressed, or at the very least a temporary experience boost implemented to compensate those who did not take advantage of it. Server owners should know how to recognize and reward those who play honestly.  /sob

Quote from: Neffletics on Sep 17, 2021, 01:18 PM
Even so, that should have been addressed, or at the very least a temporary experience boost implemented to compensate those who did not take advantage of it. Server owners should know how to recognize and reward those who play honestly.  /sob

Indeed but this basically rewards the abusers, I'm not saying they are doing this intentionally to screw us the legit honest players but their fear to punish this players is making this injustice happen.

They would need to ban the people that abused the bug during the entire EXP boost event to compensate for it to be acceptable, otherwise this people get double benefit, they abused an exploit to get tons of exp and then they get rewarded with the EXP event.

Quote from: lungo on Sep 16, 2021, 01:16 PM
You are a member of one of the guilds that abused bugs and exploits so how do I know you didn't participated? I don't. it is safe to assume you did.

You're throwing accusations without any proof whatsoever. Likewise what you consider a "bug abuse" is something the staff itself condoned. In fact they were informed very early on that all consequent rounds of mino slaves were dropping loot, and corrected that while keeping their EXP values.
My bard hasn't gotten any experience from that map either.

Quote from: lungo on Sep 16, 2021, 01:16 PM
The magic defense bug affected me and the staff corrected it, was I supposed to make a tantrum to not get it fixed or I would quit? you are receiving a PRIVILEGE that a lot of us are not, why do you get to have a bug enabled just so you don't leave and many like me have to shut up and endure it?, the mature thing was to accept the fix, you can not talk to me with your tone pretending you are better than me when you are not, you engaged in shameful behavior to get away with having your class to stay bugged.

There's a big difference between doing slightly less damage due to a fix, and having your high level character no longer being able to fulfill the purpose it was created for, even if you were offered a full reset. I have played for months in a bard+priest duo precisely because of the great synergy that duo has, which is entirely enabled by lingering songs.

Quote from: felixvu on Sep 17, 2021, 09:40 AM
Also u forgot to mention that by giving tantrum and making quit threats, he received a stat reset to remake his monk into vit/int MS, and that will last thru endgame for MVP content, kappa.

I never had a monk, you don't even know which tree you're barking at.

Quote from: felixvu on Sep 17, 2021, 12:30 PM
Yeah that was IF you kill the majos. Basically theyre just cheesing it by putting sanc to heal majos while majos just respawn minorous which gives exp.

What you call cheesing are the game's mechanics, we like it or not. It seems like people optimized the strats over the months and leveled slave priests with level 10 sanctuary just for that purpose. Sanctuary also has a low charge limit so it has to be spammed on the mob since a single one will only heal half of the mob once, for 777. Most of this was largely enabled by the tap EXP bonus.

Anybody who played on the server for a long time will remember that THE spot before people figured out majos, was anolians, and that map required zero setup or organization of any kind, just dragging the whole map on any character. Thanks to anolians and the x2 EXP event, the biggest guild on the server was able to leech a whole WoE roster to around level 90 and gain an even bigger advantage. The first level 99 on the server, soloed anolians. Nobody brings this up now though.
There will be another "cheese" spot in the future, and then another, it's a constant cycle.


You have to realize that the game is full of holes and is hardly balanced. Dealing with future issues requires both foresight and the willingness to do "custom changes" from the staff, in a timely manner. Players will always find out the most efficient ways to get things done.

Quote from: Mistral on Sep 17, 2021, 01:33 PM
You're throwing accusations without any proof whatsoever. Likewise what you consider a "bug abuse" is something the staff itself condoned. In fact they were informed very early on that all consequent rounds of mino slaves were dropping loot, and corrected that while keeping their EXP values.
My bard hasn't gotten any experience from that map either.

There's a big difference between doing slightly less damage due to a fix, and having your high level character no longer being able to fulfill the purpose it was created for, even if you were offered a full reset. I have played for months in a bard+priest duo precisely because of the great synergy that duo has, which is entirely enabled by lingering songs.


I never had a monk, you don't even know which tree you're barking at.

What you call cheesing are the game's mechanics, we like it or not. It seems like people optimized the strats over the months and leveled slave priests with level 10 sanctuary just for that purpose. Sanctuary also has a low charge limit so it has to be spammed on the mob since a single one will only heal half of the mob once, for 777. Most of this was largely enabled by the tap EXP bonus.

Anybody who played on the server for a long time will remember that THE spot before people figured out majos, was anolians, and that map required zero setup or organization of any kind, just dragging the whole map on any character. Thanks to anolians and the x2 EXP event, the biggest guild on the server was able to leech a whole WoE roster to around level 90 and gain an even bigger advantage. The first level 99 on the server, soloed anolians. Nobody brings this up now though.
There will be another "cheese" spot in the future, and then another, it's a constant cycle.


You have to realize that the game is full of holes and is hardly balanced. Dealing with future issues requires both foresight and the willingness to do "custom changes" from the staff, in a timely manner. Players will always find out the most efficient ways to get things done.

• You are member of a guild that abuses exploits and bugs
• You defend their abuses and exploits
• You yourself have a character that is basically bugged but you are allowed to keep it because it benefits you (you threatened the staff about leaving if you didn't got your way), you are receiving a PRIVILEGE that most of us don't

You should stop talking seriously.

I guess there's no use trying to reason with somebody like you.

I'm not even playing anymore, I just saw this slander of my guild and wanted to interject.

I'm out.

Quote from: Mistral on Sep 17, 2021, 02:15 PM
I guess there's no use trying to reason with somebody like you.

I'm not even playing anymore, I just saw this slander of my guild and wanted to interject.

I'm out.

Is not "Slander", this are actual facts, and you had left already because you know that you have no real arguments to defend "your guild" behavior (if you are not playing anymore how are they still your guild?) or defend your shameful behavior that sadly the GM's enabled and allowed you to keep a bugged character.

"Somebody like you"

LMAO yes, someone that gives you facts, that has moral values, exposes people without scruples like you and your guild (which to be fair are not the only ones that abused the Majorous exploit and there is probably more stuff that we all don't even know that other big guilds did etc) and someone that wants fair play for everyone and punishments for people that clearly are destroying a server with their abuses.

But yeah this is also on the GM's... they are just too afraid to lose players that they just don't act like they should on this cases. They think that being responsible means: "well we screwed up now we let the guys take advantage of the bug and make blind eye on it" nope because that has no consequences to them, to be responsible they should punish this players, most will leave but that is what being a responsible person means, you actually accept the consequences of your actions, in your case they should have let you leave the server and corrected the Bard skills because that was the responsible thing to do, not just "well let's keep this class bugged then because we screwed up".

Quote from: Mistral on Sep 17, 2021, 01:33 PM
You're throwing accusations without any proof whatsoever. Likewise what you consider a "bug abuse" is something the staff itself condoned. In fact they were informed very early on that all consequent rounds of mino slaves were dropping loot, and corrected that while keeping their EXP values.
My bard hasn't gotten any experience from that map either.

There's a big difference between doing slightly less damage due to a fix, and having your high level character no longer being able to fulfill the purpose it was created for, even if you were offered a full reset. I have played for months in a bard+priest duo precisely because of the great synergy that duo has, which is entirely enabled by lingering songs.


I never had a monk, you don't even know which tree you're barking at.

What you call cheesing are the game's mechanics, we like it or not. It seems like people optimized the strats over the months and leveled slave priests with level 10 sanctuary just for that purpose. Sanctuary also has a low charge limit so it has to be spammed on the mob since a single one will only heal half of the mob once, for 777. Most of this was largely enabled by the tap EXP bonus.

Anybody who played on the server for a long time will remember that THE spot before people figured out majos, was anolians, and that map required zero setup or organization of any kind, just dragging the whole map on any character. Thanks to anolians and the x2 EXP event, the biggest guild on the server was able to leech a whole WoE roster to around level 90 and gain an even bigger advantage. The first level 99 on the server, soloed anolians. Nobody brings this up now though.
There will be another "cheese" spot in the future, and then another, it's a constant cycle.


You have to realize that the game is full of holes and is hardly balanced. Dealing with future issues requires both foresight and the willingness to do "custom changes" from the staff, in a timely manner. Players will always find out the most efficient ways to get things done.

I never said it was you who is the monk, are u brainless or what lol? Since when i accuse you of? o.o?
Also sorry for frankly talk, but i never see such behavior of gameplay mechanic happen anywhere else but retRO specifically, even in Majos if u do stuff like that either the admins will warn you for cheesing the game or else u get ban, end of story.

lungo did you play Ragnarok Roleplay by any chance? Your postings sound very familiar.

Quote from: neethree on Sep 17, 2021, 05:42 PM
lungo did you play Ragnarok Roleplay by any chance? Your postings sound very familiar.

No and this post is about RetRO.

thanks for sharing such positive criticism reviews.
you could've ripped apart with hostile review, but i love the constructive tone for the well deserved administation.

I've recently re-joined after quitting due to noticing some very fast huge level gaps with players. Being casual player and beaten by level by hardcore players is one thing. But being beaten by un-remediated "bug" abusers is totally another big turn off thing. I couldn't even call it a bug given that it seems to be an official behaviour which admins had to intervene and customize for the sake of game balance.

but, demoralizing it is. I find less purpose and incentive for casual amidst my busier schedule.

the ugly undeniable fact is: you can never implement 100% official x1 server with official gameplay behaviour now and in future.
alot of customization and changes has to be made mostly in the aspect of expected population.

Quote from: Bullet on Sep 17, 2021, 08:52 PM
thanks for sharing such positive criticism reviews.
you could've ripped apart with hostile review, but i love the constructive tone for the well deserved administation.

I've recently re-joined after quitting due to noticing some very fast huge level gaps with players. Being casual player and beaten by level by hardcore players is one thing. But being beaten by un-remediated "bug" abusers is totally another big turn off thing. I couldn't even call it a bug given that it seems to be an official behaviour which admins had to intervene and customize for the sake of game balance.

but, demoralizing it is. I find less purpose and incentive for casual amidst my busier schedule.

the ugly undeniable fact is: you can never implement 100% official x1 server with official gameplay behaviour now and in future.
alot of customization and changes has to be made mostly in the aspect of expected population.

Thank you, I did my best to point out why I can't continue playing, without bashing the GM's, that doesn't mean they haven't done anything wrong and they could have done things better but I mean I firstly wanted this to be listened to so they do something about it but alas they won't, like I said it is not in my hands now, I can only communicate my feelings and hope they do something and I did what I could.

It is very tempting to fall into bashing or worse because it does feel really wrong that I played for months there, giving my time that I could have used for something else but I invested it in their server because I had faith in them... on x1 server so it is not a little amount of time, I was hopeful and looking forward to one day rebirth my character etc. It feels almost like a betrayal, months of my life that won't come back and I could still play but I can't. How can I do it knowing all of this abuses happened and nothing is going to be done? I just can't. It's too bad because I know also that this situations will end the server one way or the other.

This is the changelog for the maintenance of today:

(https://i.ibb.co/9ysQT3p/Sin-t-tulo.png) (https://ibb.co/9ysQT3p)

Not even the Defense bug corrected (I have sent the main admin tons of info and sources for this), just patched the Minorous exploit that should have been corrected from day 1.

So as you can see, this is falling into deaf ears.

I won't lie though, with each passing day my symphaties for them get weaker.

Can confirm that everything in this review is true. For me Retro was a terrible experience and should be avoided mostly due to the well known guild favoritism you mentioned and all of the bugs

Quote from: lungo

• MDEF bug- this hit me hard as a magic class. Turns out mobs had their magic defense not working all this time since the server launch... I just can't fathom how a bug like this gets overlooked, I just don't understand and this to me shows that the staff is really inexperienced with how ragnarok works... I just accepted this fix because I couldn't go like the previous example and pitifully ask the staff to not fix this because it affected me so I took it like a man and accepted that this had to be fixed with no complaints, I liked the server so I was willing to tolerate this situation
• The mobbing problem and Defence stat not being reduced when attacked by multiple mobs-This is actually a pretty big one, Defense is not being reduced while being attacked by multiple mobs, many sources state that BOTH hard and soft defence are reduced the more mobs hit you, I have gathered many sources and I am 100% sure that this is not working correctly on RetRO, you can see a mere swordman gathering the entire anthell dungeon only receiving 1 damage per mob, that is something I never saw when playing ragnarok in my life, this just only gets worse because when that swordman becomes Knight or Crusader they just keep mobbing without any penalties, this means that if you are a FLEE character you are screwed because FLEE does reduce when being attacked by multiple mobs, mobbing has been rampant the entire server life and most mobbers are rude, gather the entire map and barelly leave anything for the other people on the map, I tried explaining to the staff that if it feels that way to a mage class that has Creamy card and thus I can basically infinitely teleport until I find something to kill then it must be HORRIBLE to other people, specially new people that rely on fly wings or can't even aford flywings to find their mobs, they do have a rule about over mobbing but it feels inconsistent in the way they apply it to people and no wonder this is happening, if Defence is not working correctly you see this knights and crusaders not even needing a priest to mob at all, they receive really low damage and can do it constantly. The staff insist this is working as intended no matter ho much sources I brought to them so this really pisses me off.
• The MAJOROUS EXPLOIT- This is the last straw, the last drop. I just can't... for months many BIG GUILDS have abused this exploit to power level multiple characters and get characters to lvl 99, they have an "strat" to basically abuse slave spawning, they kill the slaves and heal the "boss" one so he keeps spawning minions, I don't exactly know how they did it but it was 100% an exploit and the staff said "it was ok" and now they changed their mind when they actually realized how bad it was but they will not punish anyone for doing this and this whole situation feels like a middle finger to players like me that play legit that never try to find ways to exploit the game ot ways to get advantage illegally over others, we are screwed while this people go and search for the next new exploit only for the gms to allow it and not punish anyone. I just can't condone this, I'm sorry but this is way too much for me.

This is why I dont play low rate servers running on emulators anymore. Monster MDEF not working since the server started for that long is just lol. And the last one you mentioned is grounds for a wipe. They said it was ok while the players close to them were secretly abusing it for so long and of course they wont punish their favorites now that it got out

Quote from: lungothe owner of Travels banned multiple people for telling him that firewall didn't worked correctly something that later he admitted and ninja corrected himself, and that to me showed someone that was basically a tyrant also Travels even emulates "fake lag" meaning if you get hit even once you get stun locked to death

Made-up stuff I was there for that convo and that never happened. Some player got banned for calling the admin a name not talking about firewall. Firewall on Travels has worked fine since since the beginning and has never been changed. Its running Aegis. And stun lock is normal there. On some servers stun lock is weaker because of using an emulator but this is wrong and just makes mobbing overpowered on some classes and makes the endure effect weaker

Quote from: InsomniacTV on Sep 17, 2021, 09:57 PM
Can confirm that everything in this review is true. For me Retro was a terrible experience and should be avoided mostly due to the well known guild favoritism you mentioned and all of the bugs

This is why I dont play low rate servers running on emulators anymore. Monster MDEF not working since the server started for that long is just lol. And the last one you mentioned is grounds for a wipe

Made-up stuff I was there for that convo and that never happened. Some player got banned for calling the admin a name not talking about firewall. Firewall on Travels has worked fine since since the beginning and has never been changed. Its running Aegis. And stun lock is normal there. On some servers stun lock is weaker because of using an emulator but this is wrong and just makes mobbing overpowered on some classes and makes the endure effect weaker

This Is what one of the people that came from Travels to RetRO told me:

(https://i.ibb.co/Tm3w66P/src1.png) (https://ibb.co/Tm3w66P)

Does the Defense (hard and soft) is reduced in Travels correctly?

But yeah I agree with everything you said.

Quote from: InsomniacTV on Sep 17, 2021, 09:57 PM
This is why I dont play low rate servers running on emulators anymore....

And the last one you mentioned is grounds for a wipe.

The fact its running on Aegis or emulator is the least concern if youre going to play a server, especially if its going to be 100sp type of changes implemented and reverted management decision making type. No Aegis is going to help you play that kind of environment thus its the least factor to consider to join a stable game provider.

alot of servers has to be wiped with this logic. including the 100sp teleport server  /heh

Quote from: lungo on Sep 17, 2021, 10:24 PM
This Is what one of the people that came from Travels told me

We've never changed firewall. This is likely him noticing the improved performance from our server upgrade. Official servers (and Ragnarok Travels) are much more sensitive to CPU performance than Hercules and rAthena, because the game loop updates much more frequently.

Quote from: Mistral on Sep 17, 2021, 01:33 PM


What you call cheesing are the game's mechanics, we like it or not. It seems like people optimized the strats over the months and leveled slave priests with level 10 sanctuary just for that purpose. Sanctuary also has a low charge limit so it has to be spammed on the mob since a single one will only heal half of the mob once, for 777. Most of this was largely enabled by the tap EXP bonus.

just for info:
theres a way to heal all majos w/o make the Sanc collapse to a single 777heal.
/ok
RO strats and its mechanics are deeeeeeeeeeeep.


to all the other stuff: 
"dude chill" 
just leave if u dont agree with the server. but after reading this, i think ull never ever find a perfect server that fits to you.

a RO server in its "early state", like less than 1  years old, will almost always have ALOT of changes, bugfixes, etc. to overcome , if they dont die within that 1 year.
i cant remember of ANY Ro server that i played, where there was not any form of "balance change", or bugfix or "abusefix" after its serverstart.
how can this be? shouldnt we all be the MASTERS OF THE RO UNIVERSE, after all these years?
nope, because this game is just so deep in terms of mechanics and strats.

ppls will always find a way, to cheese and try to get the maximum efford out of something - while still beeing in a legal/grey area.
and then a few months later, ppls adapt and cheese even more out of it - and thats where it got "broken" - in a way you might have not imagined before.
doesnt matter if its exp (like we had on RetRo) 
or any other thing  (like lootwise with the blue herbs on TravelsRo at its serverstart, where just a hand full of ppls "created" a few Millions of zeny, after the server was barely 10 days old)
and after all: it was the right thing to do (fix it) even if the damage was alrdy done. you have to think in the long run after all.

and while trying to fix those things (in general anything that may get wrong on a RO server) , you never can make 100% of your community statisfyed. 
doesnt matter if its retro, travels, or any other server currently or in the past.

its basicly a dead  game,  a classic gem, where normal ppls like you and me invest free time and their own money to run a server.
GMs can make things wrong, they are normal peoples, and yes they also have RealLife, family, and MAYBE even Friends  /heh
yet ppls think they can expect Company like behavior, 100man power support and the posibility to code inside the direct client and source, as they please.


i can understand that they feel like the "Minion spawn lvling" is more urgent to fix, (because ppls found out a even better strategy than the one they have tested)

The mdef bug that barely effects anything more than dmg number inside the two digit area - ofcause u set that to a lower priority to fix - because other problems are just more urgent

Quote from: dahman on Sep 18, 2021, 01:36 AM
just for info:
theres a way to heal all majos w/o make the Sanc collapse to a single 777heal.
/ok
RO strats and its mechanics are deeeeeeeeeeeep.


to all the other stuff: 
"dude chill" 
just leave if u dont agree with the server. but after reading this, i think ull never ever find a perfect server that fits to you.

a RO server in its "early state", like less than 1  years old, will almost always have ALOT of changes, bugfixes, etc. to overcome , if they dont die within that 1 year.
i cant remember of ANY Ro server that i played, where there was not any form of "balance change", or bugfix or "abusefix" after its serverstart.
how can this be? shouldnt we all be the MASTERS OF THE RO UNIVERSE, after all these years?
nope, because this game is just so deep in terms of mechanics and strats.

ppls will always find a way, to cheese and try to get the maximum efford out of something - while still beeing in a legal/grey area.
and then a few months later, ppls adapt and cheese even more out of it - and thats where it got "broken" - in a way you might have not imagined before.
doesnt matter if its exp (like we had on RetRo) 
or any other thing  (like lootwise with the blue herbs on TravelsRo at its serverstart, where just a hand full of ppls "created" a few Millions of zeny, after the server was barely 10 days old)
and after all: it was the right thing to do (fix it) even if the damage was alrdy done. you have to think in the long run after all.

and while trying to fix those things (in general anything that may get wrong on a RO server) , you never can make 100% of your community statisfyed. 
doesnt matter if its retro, travels, or any other server currently or in the past.

its basicly a dead  game,  a classic gem, where normal ppls like you and me invest free time and their own money to run a server.
GMs can make things wrong, they are normal peoples, and yes they also have RealLife, family, and MAYBE even Friends  /heh
yet ppls think they can expect Company like behavior, 100man power support and the posibility to code inside the direct client and source, as they please.


i can understand that they feel like the "Minion spawn lvling" is more urgent to fix, (because ppls found out a even better strategy than the one they have tested)

The mdef bug that barely effects anything more than dmg number inside the two digit area - ofcause u set that to a lower priority to fix - because other problems are just more urgent

While i do understand your statement, this is a server review and were free to express our opinions about the server lol.

Quote from: dahman on Sep 18, 2021, 01:36 AM
just for info:
theres a way to heal all majos w/o make the Sanc collapse to a single 777heal.
/ok
RO strats and its mechanics are deeeeeeeeeeeep.


to all the other stuff: 
"dude chill" 
just leave if u dont agree with the server. but after reading this, i think ull never ever find a perfect server that fits to you.

a RO server in its "early state", like less than 1  years old, will almost always have ALOT of changes, bugfixes, etc. to overcome , if they dont die within that 1 year.
i cant remember of ANY Ro server that i played, where there was not any form of "balance change", or bugfix or "abusefix" after its serverstart.
how can this be? shouldnt we all be the MASTERS OF THE RO UNIVERSE, after all these years?
nope, because this game is just so deep in terms of mechanics and strats.

ppls will always find a way, to cheese and try to get the maximum efford out of something - while still beeing in a legal/grey area.
and then a few months later, ppls adapt and cheese even more out of it - and thats where it got "broken" - in a way you might have not imagined before.
doesnt matter if its exp (like we had on RetRo) 
or any other thing  (like lootwise with the blue herbs on TravelsRo at its serverstart, where just a hand full of ppls "created" a few Millions of zeny, after the server was barely 10 days old)
and after all: it was the right thing to do (fix it) even if the damage was alrdy done. you have to think in the long run after all.

and while trying to fix those things (in general anything that may get wrong on a RO server) , you never can make 100% of your community statisfyed. 
doesnt matter if its retro, travels, or any other server currently or in the past.

its basicly a dead  game,  a classic gem, where normal ppls like you and me invest free time and their own money to run a server.
GMs can make things wrong, they are normal peoples, and yes they also have RealLife, family, and MAYBE even Friends  /heh
yet ppls think they can expect Company like behavior, 100man power support and the posibility to code inside the direct client and source, as they please.


i can understand that they feel like the "Minion spawn lvling" is more urgent to fix, (because ppls found out a even better strategy than the one they have tested)

The mdef bug that barely effects anything more than dmg number inside the two digit area - ofcause u set that to a lower priority to fix - because other problems are just more urgent

This whole post is really just a combination of a thought terminatig cliché tactic to supress people thoughts and analisis of this bad situation and a Nirvana Fallacy to once again make people cross their arms and just do nothing about this situation. Highly suspicious that this person making this post is one of the exploit/bug abusers exposed here and wants people to stop talking about this.


Thought Terminating cliché: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thought-terminating_cliché

A thought-terminating cliché (also known as a semantic stop-sign, a thought-stopper, bumper sticker logic, or cliché thinking) is a form of loaded language, commonly used to quell cognitive dissonance.[1][2][3][4][5] Depending on context in which a phrase (or cliché) is used, it may actually be valid and not qualify as thought-terminating; it does qualify as such when its application intends to dismiss dissent or justify fallacious logic.[6] Its only function is to stop an argument from proceeding further, in other words "end the debate with a cliché... not a point."[2] The term was popularized by Robert Jay Lifton in his 1961 book Thought Reform and the Psychology of Totalism, who called the use of the cliché, along with "loading the language", as "The language of Non-thought".[1]

"dude chill"

"just leave if u dont agree"

"ull never ever find a perfect server"

"ppls will always find a way, to cheese"

"you never can make 100% of your community statisfyed"

"GMs can make things wrong, they are normal peoples"

"ppls think they can expect Company like behavior, 100man power support and the posibility to code inside the direct client and source, as they please" (This is also a Strawman fallacy, no one made this argument at all)

"its basicly a dead  game"

"The mdef bug that barely effects anything"

Basically: STOP THINKING, STOP EXPOSING THIS, PLEASE STOP TALKING ABOUT THIS.

Nirvana Fallacy: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nirvana_fallacy

The nirvana fallacy is the informal fallacy of comparing actual things with unrealistic, idealized alternatives.[1] It can also refer to the tendency to assume there is a perfect solution to a particular problem. A closely related concept is the "perfect solution fallacy."

By creating a false dichotomy that presents one option which is obviously advantageous—while at the same time being completely implausible—a person using the nirvana fallacy can attack any opposing idea because it is imperfect. Under this fallacy, the choice is not between real world solutions; it is, rather, a choice between one realistic achievable possibility and another unrealistic solution that could in some way be "better".

"a RO server in its "early state", like less than 1  years old, will almost always have ALOT of changes, bugfixes, etc. to overcome , if they dont die within that 1 year.
i cant remember of ANY Ro server that i played, where there was not any form of "balance change", or bugfix or "abusefix" after its serverstart.
how can this be? shouldnt we all be the MASTERS OF THE RO UNIVERSE, after all these years?
nope, because this game is just so deep in terms of mechanics and strats."

"ppls will always find a way, to cheese and try to get the maximum efford out of something - while still beeing in a legal/grey area.
and then a few months later, ppls adapt and cheese even more out of it - and thats where it got "broken" - in a way you might have not imagined before."

"and while trying to fix those things (in general anything that may get wrong on a RO server) , you never can make 100% of your community statisfyed.
doesnt matter if its retro, travels, or any other server currently or in the past."

Basically: "The game is imperfect, no server is ever going to be perfect, STOP ASKING FOR PERFECTION (no one has made this argument), people will always cheat, is not worth to fix anything because nothing will ever be perfect"

It is just as simple as that.

Here is the real argument:

About the Defense Bug:

They just need to fix it but they won't because they are too stubborn to change, they believe they are right but they aren't, it doesn't matter that I brought them tons of different sources and people that actually know the game mechanics.

This is one of the experts I contacted about this subject and what this person told me and this person is 100% correct:
(https://i.ibb.co/2M0QyPr/expert1.png) (https://ibb.co/2M0QyPr)

About the Majorous exploit:

The GM's should have prevented this from happening, they allowed this exploit, they screwed up, they need to act and that form of action can come in this forms:

• Ban de abusers
• Rollback the people that benefited from this abuse
• Make an EXP event for the legal players while they ban all the people that participated on this abuses during this event period so they don't benefit from this event

The more time passes I am starting to think that maybe this person is correct:

Quote from: InsomniacTV on Sep 17, 2021, 09:57 PM
They said it was ok while the players close to them were secretly abusing it for so long and of course they wont punish their favorites now that it got out

About the Bard out of era skills:

Just put them according to the episode we are, why are you changing a whole class to give a player this benefit so he doesn't leave? why are you not implementing Alchemist Homunculous then? because those are out of this episode you say?, but Bards already have this PRIVILEGE.


It is not impossible to fix, it is not impossible to act all we need is the GM's will to do this but so far it seems they indeed prefer their exploiter guilds than honest players so I can not recommend a server that bases all the desicions on the benefit of the few big guilds and doesn't take into account all the players feedback and interests.

Call me a conspiracy guy or w/e fits your view, i dont think that ads and devs of retRO did a bad job tbh.
Its just that they listened to their top dogs way more than the usual players. Problem is, i played like 15 mins and i found a bunch of bugs like : no def/flee decrease while mobbing, 0 damage monster hit, mdef bug. I mean, in my longass years of playing ro, this is the first server that im able to outflee a pack of condors in training ground with 9 agi... Lol?
Now you have to wonder, why such basic problem of a bug that u could notice right away from starter, only get a fix after half a year?
1. GMs truly didnt know about the bugs, and theyre ignorant with players report ( dont think so ).

2. Abusers probably say to the dev team that its not a bug, and its what classic used to be ( very likely )

Sad to see such a potential going downhill, but im not gonna waste a huge chunks of hours to be on par with a bunch of 90+ in a few hours, its just not worth the effort.

This was just shared on Discord:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PP1a66GMpII (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PP1a66GMpII)


I honestly can not believe they will just do nothing about this other than fix the slave exploit that should have not be present at all. How can anyone play this server after this?, I just don't get it.

Quote from: lungo on Sep 17, 2021, 05:59 PM
No and this post is about RetRO.

My bad. Thought you were someone else. Never mind, you're the same guy after all.

When I played I remember thinking the GMs were absolutely insane when they were told "uh hey respawned slaves give EXP, you do know this right?" and they said "yeah we know, it's fine".  I don't think it's fair to call it exploiting though, it's not so much taking advantage of a bug or secretly doing something the GMs didn't know about, people were told it was intentional and it was fine, and they just powergamed the hell out of it until GMs went "wait no stop-".  Is it the fault of players, given the go-ahead, to maximise efficiency? The GMs stupidly left the doors open to an all you can eat buffet and said "take whatever you want" - sure, they realised it was busted and fixed it, but damn it's incredibly naïve to have overlooked and to have not thought "I wonder why all other current-day servers have disabled this?". Makes me think of exponentially splitting Mi Gaos, and servers that allow it without quite realising the pandora's box they're opening, lol.

NGL I love seeing this stuff. I'm a min-maxer and as a bystander, seeing people coordinating to form incredibly specific plans to squeeze out the absolute most effective progression that the game can possibly offer is always cool as hell.

Quote from: neethree on Sep 18, 2021, 05:14 PM
My bad. Thought you were someone else.

When I played I remember thinking the GMs were absolutely insane when they were told "uh hey respawned slaves give EXP, you do know this right?" and they said "yeah we know, it's fine".  I don't think it's fair to call it exploiting though, it's not so much taking advantage of a bug or secretly doing something the GMs didn't know about, people were told it was intentional and it was fine, and they just powergamed the hell out of it until GMs went "wait no stop-".  Is it the fault of players, given the go-ahead, to maximise efficiency? The GMs stupidly left the doors open to an all you can eat buffet and said "take whatever you want" - sure, they realised it was busted and fixed it, but damn it's incredibly naïve to have overlooked and to have not thought "I wonder why all other current-day servers have disabled this?". Makes me think of exponentially splitting Mi Gaos, and servers that allow it without quite realising the pandora's box they're opening, lol.

NGL I love seeing this stuff. I'm a min-maxer and as a bystander, seeing people coordinating to form incredibly specific plans to squeeze out the absolute most effective progression that the game can possibly offer is always cool as hell.

If it truly was out of "innocence" they whould have at least made a rollback because this compromised the entire server, people leveling up potter alchemist and forgers in 7 minutes is an exploit in x1, they leveled up multiple characters with this method, the server is completely compromised by this thing and they should have at least made a rollback but no.

So I can only conclude that they are letting this people get away with it because they are privileged people that get to exploit this kind of stuff more and more I am thinking this was intentional for a few to exploit and they never thought this was going to be used by a lot of people and when a lot more people were using it they just patched it and pretend nothing happened. Because I really don't understand why any owner of any server would just let this slide and think that the best path forward is to leave the server forever compromised by this and do nothing about it, whoever exploited it good, too bad for the honest players.

This also shows me that you can not trust the staff and the server because if this happened and they let it slide more things will happen and they will let those slide too.

Besides there is more stuff than this thing, the defense "bug" and they refusing to correct it is mind blowing, Bards being able to get out of episode skills but other classes having to wait patiently for the correct patch/episode that buffs them is just completely unfair, they even destroyed things like fire pillar or hunter traps... I guess we didn't make enough tantrum like that shameful bard that threatened to leave if they correctly placed the bard skills according to the episode we are, member of a guild of course, we individual players have been shown multiple times that we don't matter on RetRO, you only have a voice if you have a guild.

This is so cute.
Stop playing RO pls if u gonna cry everytime a group is smart about what they are doing in the game.
The game went through 20 years of getting the s*** meta'd out of it. Once a server gets competetive this is totally normal.
If ur frustrated that coordinated groups have a advantage don't play a server that restricts the amount of clients u can log.
Pulling whole maps and abusing 12x exptap + kim's or slave mobs like majo/owl baron or abusing ice wall is nothing new.
I can't really talk on the other stuff. But Steelbody is busted regardless with a pdodge /vit build.
If the Bard/Dancer thing is related to lingering songs its totally understandable why they left it in the game. It makes the class alot more fun.
GM's will play their own server. I think this was obviouse from the start. Yes to ensure the integrity they shouldn't reveal their position but sometimes it can't be helped. Some ppl just recognize u. Concerning custom changes that don't influence game balance. They made it clear from the start they are gonna avoid that. I can also understand why.
Adding day/night cycle/ custom color schemes or costumes all adds up. These things don't infulence the game but their goal is to maintain a old school feel so i can understand the logic behind avoiding a slope like that. Imo it is the most consistent u can get.
Guild Favorism is also nothing unusual. Ofc u will weight the combined and unified opinion of a group of players more than that of a single guy that might disagree with the next. A server needs Guilds for Woe and Competition. When Woe dies the server will die most of the time.
Also just blanket banning alot of people for using a game mechanic like that is a bad idea aswell. MvP Slaves have already been changed because of similar strategies but Mob And Miniboss Slaves were left out like this intentionally. Either way i think u should remember that retro is not a company selling u a game. They seem like a couple friends that just want to make a server they belive in which they can share with people. The review is fine but i felt very overdramatized. Since u love to argue with anyone giving their opinion in ur thread it seems more like ur butthurt than acctually beeing objective.

Quote from: Shagaru on Sep 18, 2021, 06:18 PM
This is so cute.
Stop playing RO pls if u gonna cry everytime a group is smart about what they are doing in the game.
The game went through 20 years of getting the s*** meta'd out of it. Once a server gets competetive this is totally normal.
If ur frustrated that coordinated groups have a advantage don't play a server that restricts the amount of clients u can log.
Pulling whole maps and abusing 12x exptap + kim's or slave mobs like majo/owl baron or abusing ice wall is nothing new.
I can't really talk on the other stuff. But Steelbody is busted regardless with a pdodge /vit build.
If the Bard/Dancer thing is related to lingering songs its totally understandable why they left it in the game. It makes the class alot more fun.
GM's will play their own server. I think this was obviouse from the start. Yes to ensure the integrity they shouldn't reveal their position but sometimes it can't be helped. Some ppl just recognize u. Concerning custom changes that don't influence game balance. They made it clear from the start they are gonna avoid that. I can also understand why.
Adding day/night cycle/ custom color schemes or costumes all adds up. These things don't infulence the game but their goal is to maintain a old school feel so i can understand the logic behind avoiding a slope like that. Imo it is the most consistent u can get.
Guild Favorism is also nothing unusual. Ofc u will weight the combined and unified opinion of a group of players more than that of a single guy that might disagree with the next. A server needs Guilds for Woe and Competition. When Woe dies the server will die most of the time.
Also just blanket banning alot of people for using a game mechanic like that is a bad idea aswell. MvP Slaves have already been changed because of similar strategies but Mob And Miniboss Slaves were left out like this intentionally. Either way i think u should remember that retro is not a company selling u a game. They seem like a couple friends that just want to make a server they belive in which they can share with people. The review is fine but i felt very overdramatized. Since u love to argue with anyone giving their opinion in ur thread it seems more like ur butthurt than acctually beeing objective.

You sound exactly like the person you are accusing me of being: "u love to argue with anyone giving their opinion", "it seems more like ur butthurt than acctually beeing objective."

How can you act as if you have a high moral ground when you yourself make attacking comments towards someone that has never spoken to you?, how can you criticize someone about not being objective when you talk in agressive tones out of nowhere?

"This is so cute. " Very objective statement not passive agressive at all and obviously with no ill intentions.

"Stop playing RO pls if u gonna cry everytime a group is smart about what they are doing in the game." Not only does this involve an appeal to ridicule fallacy it is also in essence a strawman fallacy and ultimatelly a thought terminating cliché. Is a complete missrepresentation of what happened and a very low attempt to ridicule someone for expressing concern about what happened. This is once again not Objective.

"If ur frustrated that coordinated groups have a advantage don't play a server that restricts the amount of clients u can log." Another Strawman, another complete missrepresentation of the actual argument and what truly happened, this is objective to you? it isn't.

"Pulling whole maps and abusing 12x exptap + kim's or slave mobs like majo/owl baron or abusing ice wall is nothing new. " A simple thought terminatig cliché that also once again missrepresents the situation.

"I can't really talk on the other stuff. But Steelbody is busted regardless with a pdodge /vit build. " Nirvana fallacy, since steelbody is already strong then we must completely ignore any bug that is tied to this skill because the skill is already too strong.

"If the Bard/Dancer thing is related to lingering songs its totally understandable why they left it in the game. It makes the class alot more fun." Ignoring completely that this server is supposed to be a classic server with seasonal updates that go though each episode. Many classes would be more fun if they had their future skills enabled like bard, for example Alchemist with Homunculous, this is basically a non argument because it ignores completely the reason why this argument even exist.

"Concerning custom changes that don't influence game balance. They made it clear from the start they are gonna avoid that. I can also understand why." except they haven't avoided them and the Bard custom change you are defending is one of them. This two last points show that you are just a contrarian, you have no real posture you just want to be contrarian to seek attention.

"Guild Favorism is also nothing unusual. Ofc u will weight the combined and unified opinion of a group of players more than that of a single guy that might disagree with the next. A server needs Guilds for Woe and Competition. When Woe dies the server will die most of the time." Typical mob mentality that ditches logic and reason. Contrary to what social media has taught you, objective reality, facts, science etc are not a democracy, your upvotes, your likes etc doesn't make you right and you can not make people wrong or the objective world change by throwing dislikes or dowvotes to the world. You are essentially saying that it is fine that they listen to the wrong people so long as they are more than the people that are correct.

"Also just blanket banning alot of people for using a game mechanic like that is a bad idea aswell." They could have opted for a rollback.

The majority of people here seem to have forgotten that this is a review based on Lungo's standards. If we put ourselves in the shoes of the opposing and defending parties, we can see that both have valid points.

As an administrator, your primary focus should be on what will keep the game enjoyable for everyone. Regardless of whether it is an official behavior, if it has an impact on the economy and overall balance, it should be changed. It's the same reason I removed the spawn drops from Byorgue's slaves (Sword Guardian and Bow Guardian) because I know players will take advantage of it to farm Orlean's Glove. So I completely understand why RetRO kept the song's behavior in its current state because reverting it to its earlier behavior makes no sense. However, the other issues raised should have been addressed right away.

byorgue slaves take like a day to respawn. That instant byorgue slave respawn was fixed on emulators long time ago.
The reason i have a issue with the review is because it feels to me like a overdramatized last ditch effort hit piece in disguise.
All the bug's hes complaining about were apperently already fixed.
And what he calls inconsistency by the server owner is just his own stubborness... refusing to accept a design decision.
Basicly like slinging around yesterdays s***  and demanding change while pretending to be compassionate.

The staff needs to get their act together, they can still save this server if they do the right thing: they need to correct the defence bug and carefully search if any other major bug is still present, they need to ban or at least rollback all the abusers of this Majorous exploit, and they need to STOP TRUSTING THEIR PLAYERS specially the ones that play on big guilds that are always the ones that destroy the servers, the ones that abuse bugs, and exploit the hell out of them and always are on a race to the next new bug or exploit to abuse. If anything I respect the effort of the Ragnarok Travels owner more in the fact that he does fight this big guild monopolization of the server, the staff of RetRO should learn from that, big guilds destroy servers, many of the dramas that have killed even official servers have been related to big guilds.

Comments like these are just red flags to me. Implying he and his complains are the ones to be trusted and the big guilds and others are untrustworthy.  I am also biased cause i know this guy. Overall it leaves me with a impression of bad faith.

The biggest issue he has is obviously the Majorus thing. He already said drops were removed and the strategy was prohibited no?
I just wanted to point out that many roads lead to rome so to say. Playing in a coordinated group there is many ways to exp very quickly and if that is his main issue he should look for another game. I can see how balance decisions like this aren't all that obviouse. They are trying to maintain the experiance of a old school classic feel that comes with its gross imbalances in gameplay. So where does it stop beeing alright for Mister Lungo. Should they remove the classic 25% exp tap aswell at some point only because he thinks its unfair?

Quote from: Neffletics on Sep 19, 2021, 06:12 AM
The majority of people here seem to have forgotten that this is a review based on Lungo's standards. If we put ourselves in the shoes of the opposing and defending parties, we can see that both have valid points.

As an administrator, your primary focus should be on what will keep the game enjoyable for everyone. Regardless of whether it is an official behavior, if it has an impact on the economy and overall balance, it should be changed. It's the same reason I removed the spawn drops from Byorgue's slaves (Sword Guardian and Bow Guardian) because I know players will take advantage of it to farm Orlean's Glove. So I completely understand why RetRO kept the song's behavior in its current state because reverting it to its earlier behavior makes no sense. However, the other issues raised should have been addressed right away.

Apparently I can not have standars dude and no one should have, we all should just bend over and accept everything.

I'm going to tell you why keeping the bards bugged is not ok: many people accepted to play on this server because they advertised and promised to be a classic server with a progression system, so with that comes classes that have changed, there are many classes that are not working to their full potential or are a chore to play because they don't have their skills updated or because they lack something, we all knew it was going to be like that, leaving the bards unfixed with post trans behavior is a HUGE slap in the face to all the people that were playing classes that are also "nerfed" in some ways due to the episode we are in, it's not fair, is exactly the same thing as Majoruous, some players played legally and leveled up normally like me, which took us days to get a level up and there is people that in 7 minutes in their own words leveled up potter alchemists etc. what this shows is that the GM's have a double standard, one for people like me and one for the big guilds.

I won't adress the provocateurs anymore because the only objective this people have is to derail this thread into a flame war or get it closed, since yesterday there is a clear coordinated attempt at this and I will just report this people, full of adhominem attacks, lies,strawmans, agressive behavior etc.

I do need to adress that it is a lie that RetRO already fixed the issues I presented on this review, the defense bug is still present and the last changelog reported only fixed the majorous slave exp behavior. The Defense bug is still there, the MDEF bug I mentioned here I myself mentioned it was already fixed but I had to mention it as part of my review for obvious reasons same with how the Bard gets out of episode skills. This is a review based on the state of the server at that point in time, it is ludicrous to think that I should change it based on future changes specially when the only fix they did was to change the slave exp exploit but they did nothing to fix the HUGE damage done by this exploit, so this is still a problem because the intention of reporting this exploit was to show the damage caused by this, the receits are there, I put them on the main post, screenshots of the confesions of people that talked about how they took advantage of it you could always go to discord and search them yourself, there is video evidence which was also posted on discord and an image of the exp this people were getting also took from discord, so anyone that doesn't believe can go to the discord, to the source and see that I am not making anything up.

Quote from: Shagaru on Sep 19, 2021, 09:04 AM
The biggest issue he has is obviously the Majorus thing. He already said drops were removed and the strategy was prohibited no?
I just wanted to point out that many roads lead to rome so to say. Playing in a coordinated group there is many ways to exp very quickly and if that is his main issue he should look for another game. I can see how balance decisions like this aren't all that obviouse. They are trying to maintain the experiance of a old school classic feel that comes with its gross imbalances in gameplay. So where does it stop beeing alright for Mister Lungo. Should they remove the classic 25% exp tap aswell at some point only because he thinks its unfair?

Something as major as Monster mdef didnt work since server start and the def bug is still there. The exp tap isnt a bug and you cant go to lv80 to lv90 in some hours so its unfair for you to compare it to all of the major issues with the server

The Majorous Exploit was fixed after the insider guilds close to staff abused it for months and they let them which is an unfair double standard... most normal players didnt know about it because its not intuitive and was obviously not intended to level that fast. The server is messed up beyond belief now and I dont think it can be fixed without bans or looong rollback

I'm having dialogue with the GM's at the moment I will post an update soon, report the people that are trying to stir drama with false accusations, conspiracies etc.

Quote from: lungo on Sep 18, 2021, 05:50 PM
If it truly was out of "innocence" they whould have at least made a rollback because this compromised the entire server, people leveling up potter alchemist and forgers in 7 minutes is an exploit in x1, they leveled up multiple characters with this method, the server is completely compromised by this thing and they should have at least made a rollback but no.

Quote from: lungo on Sep 16, 2021, 12:47 PM
For the record, the person I am replying to is one of the people that benefitted from this Majorous exploit, benefitted from the Monk bug and from the Bard having out of era skills and if I remember correctly this person is the main one that made a tantrum to the staff and said he would quit if they fixed the bard skills. This person is member of the Trap Lovers guild.

So of course this people will always try to gaslight others into believing that they did nothing wrong and they can't be blamed for engaging in bad behavior.

Looking at the servers ranking page I only see 4 blacksmiths over level 90 and 2 alchemists level 90+ which months ago was about the same. So if your blind statement was true there would be far more blacksmiths/alchemists over level 90, as the remaining rank slots quickly drop to level 70 in the top 20 displayed. Also at one point you called out the guild Trap lovers, yet looking at the class rankings not many of their members are in the top 20. If it was abused for months wouldn't there be a full list of level 99's in the servers ranking for each class? Honestly seems more like blowing things way out of line to stroke your ego and slander a server.

Quote from: lungo on Sep 17, 2021, 01:14 PM
It is really sad that people actually defend this garbage, probably another bug abuser himself or a fanboy in denial.

Now you even claimed I most be an abuser on the server, the highest level character I have on retRO at the moment is 73. I play across multiple servers and retRO is on the backburner for me until it has a bigger player base. So claiming I am white knighting or fanboying is just a poor tactic to try dodging logical truth against your overly dramatized slander(s).  So everyone can even check the rankings their self https://retro-online.eu/ranking/char  for being 9months in, looks pretty close to what you would expect to see. Nothing wrong with disagreeing with how the devs go about things on their server and or no longer wanting to play it, but stretching the truth and falsely pointing fingers at people just because they say otherwise is rather sad and sounds a lot like another 1x server owners tactic to justify themselves.

Ok I talked to a GM this is what I got:

• Def bug is going to be corrected, they realize it is wrong now
• Bard skills are going to get discussed to revert them back BUT the GM says it is not likely
• Apparently Monks also have out of episode skill buffs (Occult impact/investigate is buffed) I will have to add this to my main review now
• No punishment for the abusers of the Majorous exploit or compensation for the people that never abused this exploit

Now my opinion about this:

• Defense bug changes is good but took way too long (all the server lifespawn) to fix get adressed so tons of mobbers abused this already
• Bards not likelly to get their skills reverted is pretty bad because currently there are classes like Alchemist that can't even level up properly and no one gives a damn about them?, the GM told me that the community wouldn't accept a buff to Alchemist and I told him "of course not they only care about themselves" why? because Bards are useful for parties and WOE etc so they obviously need that Bards are buffed to level them faster, guilds can level up Alchemist leeching them anyway so screw anyone that plays alone and is not on a big guild, essentially showing once again that guilds are pulling the strings on major desicions
• Monk having out of episode buffs too came as a suprise to me because Monk litterally has no room to complain about not having alternatives, they can level as combo, as throw spirit spheres (which is buffed on the episode we are), they can be tanks or be MVP killers... so why buff occult impact? SIMPLE: to make guild WOE Monks easier to level up, once again showing that guilds are pulling the strings.
• No compensation or punishment is just really once again the last straw because this shows they really don't care about people like me that don't go around looking for ways to exploit, they won't punish because the big guilds took advantage of it and they won't compensate because they believe people like me will take it and stay anyways, they are wrong, I for one won't play until compensation or punishment is due.

The GM i spoke to told me two things:

• "But in the end there are only levels gained, no zeny or equipment that flooded the server"
• " A group of players always level faster than a single person"

Those two things all I can say is first: with higher levels means more power which translates in more items being farmed and more zenny so trying to make it sound like it doesn't affect the server is just really disingenuous this is almost gaslighting and outright lying at worst. The second part is basically another Nirvana fallacy and a thought terminating cliché just to make me stop talking about the subject and analizing how bad this is for the server is also really disingenuous to compare this abuse to normal group play.

With all that being said I still don't recommend anyone to play on this server, sorry I can't, this Majorous exploit is a HUGE thing that any administrator would have already take action, either punishing people or compensating people that never abused this but they won't, expecting people to continue playing as if nothing happened is a slap in the face, yeah, too bad we have some scruples and values and we never thought of exploiting your server I guess, a server we cared for.

Quote from: Shuchou on Sep 19, 2021, 04:04 PM
Looking at the servers ranking page I only see 4 blacksmiths over level 90 and 2 alchemists level 90+ which months ago was about the same. So if your blind statement was true there would be far more blacksmiths/alchemists over level 90, as the remaining rank slots quickly drop to level 70 in the top 20 displayed. Also at one point you called out the guild Trap lovers, yet looking at the class rankings not many of their members are in the top 20. If it was abused for months wouldn't there be a full list of level 99's in the servers ranking for each class? Honestly seems more like blowing things way out of line to stroke your ego and slander a server.

Now you even claimed I most be an abuser on the server, the highest level character I have on retRO at the moment is 73. I play across multiple servers and retRO is on the backburner for me until it has a bigger player base. So claiming I am white knighting or fanboying is just a poor tactic to try dodging logical truth against your overly dramatized slander(s).  So everyone can even check the rankings their self https://retro-online.eu/ranking/char  for being 9months in, looks pretty close to what you would expect to see. Nothing wrong with disagreeing with how the devs go about things on their server and or no longer wanting to play it, but stretching the truth and falsely pointing fingers at people just because they say otherwise is rather sad and sounds a lot like another 1x server owners tactic to justify themselves.

On the rankings you can not see every single character that was leveled up using this method, saying that everyone that used this leveled to 99 outright is not the argument the argument is that they took multiple characters to high levels by doing this, it is exposed on the main post, there are screenshots of the conversations and videos of it, if iI were taking this out of proportion as you claim the GM's wouldn't even be patching this out, the fact is there was rampant abuse from the top dog guilds which on a server population of 100 real players is not a lot but we should not argument based on quantity but the act itself and the act is despicable and makes a huge gap between the ones that took advantage of this or the ones that didn't.

If you keep with you false accusations about me being someone else or your conspiracies I will report you again.

Quote from: lungo on Sep 19, 2021, 04:18 PM
With all that being said I still don't recommend anyone to play on this server, sorry I can't, this Majorous exploit is a HUGE thing that any administrator would have already tak action, either punishing people or compensating people that never abused this but they won't, expecting people to continue playing as if nothing happened is a slap in the face, yeah, too bad we have some scruples and values and we never thought of exploiting your server I guess, a server we cared for.

Now, the def bug and non-classic cherrypicked content are criticisms I agree with, but this... Why on earth would they punish someone for doing something that was not against the rules, and why on earth would they compensate people? You keep calling it an exploit and calling for punishment as if people were bug abusing, but it's just powerlevelling and cheesing at most. Dumb of staff to have allowed it in the first place - key word, *allowed* - but it would be ten times as bad for them to go "Yeah I know we said that farming mob slaves was OK, but we've changed our minds and now we're going to punish you for it".  A crazy fast levelling method has been and gone - that's the cycle of RO. Should people have compensation for missing the 2x exp event? Should people have compensation when 12man Kim parties roll up in Bio3? People will always find the best levelling method and cheese it all to hell in any given point in time - the punishment is having that method removed. Unless you make a rule saying "You must only kill one mob at a time" there are always going to be powergamers, and that's just the way MMOs are.

Ever seen the "Bring your own cup" thing they do with slurpees and people roll up with buckets? This is just the MMO version of that, lol.

Quote from: neethree on Sep 19, 2021, 04:48 PM
Now, the def bug and non-classic cherrypicked content are criticisms I agree with, but this... Why on earth would they punish someone for doing something that was not against the rules, and why on earth would they compensate people? You keep calling it an exploit and calling for punishment as if people were bug abusing, but it's just powerlevelling and cheesing at most. Dumb of staff to have allowed it in the first place - key word, *allowed* - but it would be ten times as bad for them to go "Yeah I know we said that farming mob slaves was OK, but we've changed our minds and now we're going to punish you for it".  A crazy fast levelling method has been and gone - that's the cycle of RO. Should people have compensation for missing the 2x exp event? Should people have compensation when 12man Kim parties roll up in Bio3? People will always find the best levelling method and cheese it all to hell in any given point in time - the punishment is having that method removed. Unless you make a rule saying "You must only kill one mob at a time" there are always going to be powergamers, and that's just the way MMOs are.

Ever seen the "Bring your own cup" thing they do with slurpees and people roll up with buckets? This is just the MMO version of that, lol.

"Why on earth would they punish someone for doing something that was not against the rules"-Because they clearly didn't know all the information about this leveling method, either the abusers lied to them about this and hide how they were doing it or the GM's knew since the beginning and thought not many people would notice and only a few would take advantage of it. Besides they could have opted for a rollback once it was clear that this would taint the server forever IF they truly didn't knew about this.

"why on earth would they compensate people?" -Because an abuse took place nonetheless, people that abide by the rules and don't take advantage of this situations should be rewarded IF they are not going to punish players, it's one of the other not both, either punish or compensate people for letting this abusers take huge amounts of experience unpunished.

"You keep calling it an exploit and calling for punishment as if people were bug abusing, but it's just powerlevelling and cheesing at most."- Because they are abusing an exploit, you call things for what they are, I know it is a difficult concept to graps for this new generation that likes to destroy the language and to manipulate definitions based on subjective concepts and not objectivity and facts.

"Should people have compensation for missing the 2x exp event? Should people have compensation when 12man Kim parties roll up in Bio3?"- False equivalence fallacies at it's finest.

"People will always find the best levelling method and cheese it all to hell in any given point in time"- The same thought terminatig cliché, Nirvana fallacy already debunked.

"Unless you make a rule saying "You must only kill one mob at a time"" -No one ever said this, this is a strawman fallacy and a false equivalence in disguise trying to once again falselly equate normal group leveling to what took place on the Majorous map.

"Ever seen the "Bring your own cup" thing they do with slurpees and people roll up with buckets? This is just the MMO version of that, lol"- Another flase equivalence here, you are wrong, not all the server had the opportunity to take advantage of it, only the big guilds and a few selected people had this ability, most players didn't knew about this being a thing, a lot of players also play alone and don't have guilds to even thinking of doing this, so no, not everyone could bring their bucket as you falsely claim.

Quote from: lungo on Sep 19, 2021, 05:04 PM
Because they clearly didn't know all the information about this leveling method, either the abusers lied to them about this and hide how they were doing it or the GM's knew since the beginning and thought not many people would notice and only a few would take advantage of it. Besides they could have opted for a rollback once it was clear that this would taint the server forever IF they truly didn't knew about this.

Man, for all you harp on about objectivity and facts you sure do like making up your own backstory.

Quote from: neethree on Sep 19, 2021, 05:09 PM
Man, for all you harp on about objectivity and facts you sure do like making up your own backstory.

It is called "theorizing" I know people this days just live on social media, live off their big egos being fed by likes, retweets, upvotes etc and thinking that science and objective reality are a democracy...

We know that the GM's changed this because it was an absurd method of leveling up, on their own words:

• "We apologise in any form that we did not listen to the concerns of players that warned us about it and this has only now become clear to us."
• "We were naive back then, we never thought that our player would min max this to this extend." (said to me in a PM)

Assuming they are telling the truth then yes, it is fair to assume they didn't knew the whole story and the abusers hide this facts from them for a LONG time before they took action.

This is not new though, here is another example: The Steel body Monk bug that the guild Trap Lovers abused for months too, they were purposefully not clear on what they were doing while "reporting" the behavior to the GM's in order to hide their true intentions, they never outright said: "we are making a Monk that is essentially Fleeing damage through high Vit, receiving 0 damage" and when the GM's truly found out what they were doing they had to take action and they did NOT punish them for abusing this and telling them half truths in fact they even offered them a free character reset because this shameful people without scruples had even the guts to play victims blaming the GM's for fixing this bug because the poor them were going to lose their character they invested months on it, so the staff bent the knee for this abusers.

It is also safe to assume that this is the case that they truly never knew the scope of their desicion because they thought that defence was working as intended, one person asked: "is def currently bugged it feels you can mob infinity and not loose def" and the head administrator of the server answered: "Why you should lose def?".

This clearly shows that they really don't know much about ragnarok in general to me and that are prone to mistakes like this or really gullible and prone to be taken advantage by exploiters.

Now the alternative is that they actually did this on purpose to benefit guilds and the evidence of this is every single desicion so far made to benefit guilds like:

• Having out of episode skills on certain classes.
• Not punishing guilds for not communicating accurately weird server behavior that can be abused
• Allowing guilds to have guild accounts so they can have their own guild alchemist or blacksmiths essentially allowing guilds to share characters
• Members of a guild being GM's for a time

Those are on the top of my head but there are probably more.

So as you can see there is tons of material that support this theory.

Retro was started as a collab between the staff and one of the guilds there because OriginsRo and Travels dont offer god items and this guild wanted god items so basical one of the guilds is a co-owner. My view is that this was "allowed" because the big guilds call the shots and only they were benefitting from it. Regular players wouldnt think to do a tactic like that

75/m hour on 1x isnt normal and it isnt just "well people in groups make more than people solo". Its exploitable

Quote from: InsomniacTV on Sep 19, 2021, 06:37 PM
Retro was started as a collab between the staff and one of the guilds there because OriginsRo and Travels dont offer god items and this guild wanted god items so basical one of the guilds is a co-owner. My view is that this was "allowed" because the big guilds call the shots and only they were benefitting from it. Regular players wouldnt think to do a tactic like that

75/m hour on 1x isnt normal and it isnt just "well people in groups make more than people solo". Its exploitable

This sounds plausible, I once asked what characters they play and in what guild because I had suspicion that they were part of Skill Capped guild but they never told me and I doubt they don't play on their own server.

Who knows really, at this point anything is possible, refusing to act about this is a major red flag IMO.

I present to you one of the main guilds that abused this Majorous exp bug:

I know for a fact this 2 WOE sages were never on this Sage rankings
(https://i.ibb.co/fQ90xFC/bug-abusers.png) (https://ibb.co/fQ90xFC)

And I don't even remember this guild being on the rankings of the guilds at all, I'm not that sure about they being this high at least
(https://i.ibb.co/mGnN14M/abusers-2.png) (https://ibb.co/mGnN14M)

This 3 Alchemist for WOE too are too obvious:
(https://i.ibb.co/6BV4YN1/abusers-3.png) (https://ibb.co/6BV4YN1)

If only I took more time looking at this rankings I could come up with more but this are the easiest to see, only the GM's really know how much people abused this thing but it is insane they are asking us to make blind eye on this situation.

Guild account? what is that even mean? All guild members can share that account? This is how you abuse a rank brewer potter or blacksmith. Literally the entire guild can rank a character with multiple people using it. Regular players with no guild wont stand a chance. lol

Yo, I'm one of the core members of the RO Buddies guild that joined late July/early August, I'm also one of the sages in the screenshot you just posted.

The first thing you should know about this server is that it tries to emulate RO as closely as possible to how it was back in the day, there's a few notable exceptions to this and they have listed these on their website (https://retro-online.eu/balancing). Sometimes bugs slip through the cracks as you make your server configuration, and when you find out you're unfortunately in a situation where you will piss players off regardless. Either you fix the bug and be true to your server vision, while at the same time pissing off players that don't want it changed. Or you leave it be and people get mad at you for not fixing a now glaring issue. In most of these cases it's best to fix it, making your server a more well polished product and sticking to what you set out for your server to be.

The defense "bug"
For people that don't know, this is about soft def not being reduced if you have more than 2/3 targets on you, makes it easier to tank huge mobs. Mostly beneficial to MS monks since they can effectively reduce their damage taken to 1s with enough vit.

This is an episodic change as far as I know and will get updated to not work well with lots of monsters on you in the future just like it was back in the day. It is however pretty hard to get accurate mechanics data for older RO episodes, so if someone has a valid source saying this isn't the correct behavior at that episode they'll probably change it up.

The mdef bug
Soft mdef wasn't working on the server for a while, on both players and monsters. The initial report came from players taking too much damage from magic, when they fixed that they fixed monster mdef too since it's the same calculation. You can't just leave bugs like this in the game once you know that they're there.

The Majo situation
I want to preface this by saying that my guild is a huge bunch of nerds when it comes to RO, we no life and minmax the s*** out of it.

We got curious about minos as a leveling method after reading back in the patch notes when we joined the server, apparently you could let majos respawn minos and get exp from those resummoned minos. We initially started by mobbing the map and running them in SG, letting them respawn, remobbing again until the majos died. We would then repeat this for like 1.5m exp an hour per member in the party, this was worse than magma but easier to setup and you needed less classes, more "dead" classes could join and just tap for exp compared to magma. The tradeoff was that you got little to no loot.

After some theorycrafting we found a way to never having to remob the map, just endlessly killing the minos. This does require more setup and snowballed in our guild just bringing 15ish members down to mass tap/kim for a single character getting leeched. When we initially did this we got to 50m/h combined party exp while leeching up our guild brewer, RO Buddies.

This felt very much like cheesing the game instead of playing it cause of the resummons, so I contacted a gm saying that they should maybe reconsider their stance on respawned slave minos giving exp since I believed this would be very bad for the server and also my guild in the long run. I heard nothing back and we continued leeching 2-3 more characters after refining the strategy and getting up to combined 75m/h over the next two days, none of those 2-3 chars were the characters you screenshotted.

Then the announcement dropped that this was no longer allowed and would be fixed during maintenance in two days. The GMs didn't know how high the numbers could go and were only fine with respawns giving exp if your majos were dying. We literally got the strongest leveling method removed before we even got to fully use it. "Punishment" as some dumbasses are calling for would be dumb, people were just playing the game the optimal way using methods that were officially OK'd by the GM team. People also spent considerable amount of time down there, it's not like they were chilling in town and got free exp.

It's also ridiculous to say that people were printing out 99s, there's like 11 99s on the server as of this moment, and a lot of those are solo chars like hunter/rogue/sin.

Since then we've been leveling in magma instead and are getting 4-4.5m exp/h for the every party member(with around 12-15 members present on the map) which is honestly very comparable to what we used to get at majos, and we are actually getting loot now too.

Our characters and guild being high level is because we grind so much, I spent 8-10h in magma the past weekend getting 6 levels on my WoE sage, and I was only one of the 12 members in that party.

Conclusion
My guild and I are having a blast on this server, the GMs are very helpful and stay true to their vision when issues come up. It's very unfortunate that some people don't have the mental capacity to realize that sometimes bugs occur and need to get fixed or that GMs can be wrong initially and change their mind when they get new information.

Quote from: Saegys on Sep 20, 2021, 06:16 AM
Yo, I'm one of the core members of the RO Buddies guild that joined late July/early August, I'm also one of the sages in the screenshot you just posted.

The first thing you should know about this server is that it tries to emulate RO as closely as possible to how it was back in the day, there's a few notable exceptions to this and they have listed these on their website (https://retro-online.eu/balancing). Sometimes bugs slip through the cracks as you make your server configuration, and when you find out you're unfortunately in a situation where you will piss players off regardless. Either you fix the bug and be true to your server vision, while at the same time pissing off players that don't want it changed. Or you leave it be and people get mad at you for not fixing a now glaring issue. In most of these cases it's best to fix it, making your server a more well polished product and sticking to what you set out for your server to be.

The defense "bug"
For people that don't know, this is about soft def not being reduced if you have more than 2/3 targets on you, makes it easier to tank huge mobs. Mostly beneficial to MS monks since they can effectively reduce their damage taken to 1s with enough vit.

This is an episodic change as far as I know and will get updated to not work well with lots of monsters on you in the future just like it was back in the day. It is however pretty hard to get accurate mechanics data for older RO episodes, so if someone has a valid source saying this isn't the correct behavior at that episode they'll probably change it up.

The mdef bug
Soft mdef wasn't working on the server for a while, on both players and monsters. The initial report came from players taking too much damage from magic, when they fixed that they fixed monster mdef too since it's the same calculation. You can't just leave bugs like this in the game once you know that they're there.

The Majo situation
I want to preface this by saying that my guild is a huge bunch of nerds when it comes to RO, we no life and minmax the s*** out of it.

We got curious about minos as a leveling method after reading back in the patch notes when we joined the server, apparently you could let majos respawn minos and get exp from those resummoned minos. We initially started by mobbing the map and running them in SG, letting them respawn, remobbing again until the majos died. We would then repeat this for like 1.5m exp an hour per member in the party, this was worse than magma but easier to setup and you needed less classes, more "dead" classes could join and just tap for exp compared to magma. The tradeoff was that you got little to no loot.

After some theorycrafting we found a way to never having to remob the map, just endlessly killing the minos. This does require more setup and snowballed in our guild just bringing 15ish members down to mass tap/kim for a single character getting leeched. When we initially did this we got to 50m/h combined party exp while leeching up our guild brewer, RO Buddies.

This felt very much like cheesing the game instead of playing it cause of the resummons, so I contacted a gm saying that they should maybe reconsider their stance on respawned slave minos giving exp since I believed this would be very bad for the server and also my guild in the long run. I heard nothing back and we continued leeching 2-3 more characters after refining the strategy and getting up to combined 75m/h over the next two days, none of those 2-3 chars were the characters you screenshotted.

Then the announcement dropped that this was no longer allowed and would be fixed during maintenance in two days. The GMs didn't know how high the numbers could go and were only fine with respawns giving exp if your majos were dying. We literally got the strongest leveling method removed before we even got to fully use it. "Punishment" as some dumbasses are calling for would be dumb, people were just playing the game the optimal way using methods that were officially OK'd by the GM team. People also spent considerable amount of time down there, it's not like they were chilling in town and got free exp.

It's also ridiculous to say that people were printing out 99s, there's like 11 99s on the server as of this moment, and a lot of those are solo chars like hunter/rogue/sin.

Since then we've been leveling in magma instead and are getting 4-4.5m exp/h for the every party member(with around 12-15 members present on the map) which is honestly very comparable to what we used to get at majos, and we are actually getting loot now too.

Our characters and guild being high level is because we grind so much, I spent 8-10h in magma the past weekend getting 6 levels on my WoE sage, and I was only one of the 12 members in that party.

Conclusion
My guild and I are having a blast on this server, the GMs are very helpful and stay true to their vision when issues come up. It's very unfortunate that some people don't have the mental capacity to realize that sometimes bugs occur and need to get fixed or that GMs can be wrong initially and change their mind when they get new information.

This whole post is just a pathetic attempt of an abuser to rationalize their actions to the public in order to gaslight them to appear as if they did nothing wrong.

This person is wrong about the defense, completely wrong even saying that this only beneficial to MS monks, shows complete lack of knowledge of the game for someone that says to know a lot. This bug is letting all classes that rely on vit and defense to tank an infinite amount of mobs with no penalites, this is OriginsRO wiki:

(https://i.ibb.co/185bBXY/1.png) (https://ibb.co/185bBXY)
(https://i.ibb.co/SVS55H0/2.png) (https://ibb.co/SVS55H0)

All the people that I contacted that are actual experts on the game and do know what they are talking about were mind blown by RetRO not having this accurately and it IS big deal compared to what this ignorant person is saying.

I never asked the MDEF bug to stay, I don't know why this abuser is even implying that. My review needed to mention it so people can grasp all the mistakes, errors and overal incompetence that happened on the server that as a whole made me want to quit.

The Majorous explanation is like I said at the begining just a sad attempt to normalize an exploit, is a cynical gaslighting attempt of what happened and an appeal to emotion fallacy so the people once again look at them as the poor misunderstood people that were just playing the game "normally".

• "we initially did this we got to 50m/h combined party exp while leeching up our guild brewer,"
• "This felt very much like cheesing the game
• "we continued leeching 2-3 more characters after refining the strategy"
• "getting up to combined 75m/h over the next two days"

This is what a member of this guild or this person himself was saying on Discord when he is not looking for symphaty from the people (to appeal to emotion) basically with the mask off:

(https://i.ibb.co/WzhPvTR/cynicalabusivecunt.png) (https://ibb.co/WzhPvTR)

This person is trying to gaslight everyone into believing this is a "non issue" but this are his own words about this situation:

(https://i.ibb.co/nw0ZRbB/abusivecuntagrees.png) (https://ibb.co/nw0ZRbB)

He knows how much this hurts the game, he knows this is an abuse, his own words is that: "RO is full of ABUSIVE s***" but still tries to gaslight people into believing "this is not an abuse"

This is called a FREUDIAN SLIP: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freudian_slip

"In psychoanalysis, a Freudian slip, also called parapraxis, is an error in speech, memory, or physical action that occurs due to the interference of an unconscious subdued wish or internal train of thought. Classical examples involve slips of the tongue, but psychoanalytic theory also embraces misreadings, mishearings, mistypings, temporary forgettings, and the mislaying and losing of objects."

This person says I don't have the "mental capacity"? don't make laugh, i perfectly understand what happened and so do you, you just want to pretend that this was nothing out of the ordinary but you or whoever that person on the screenshots is, sure likes to gloat about how you people abused this exploit, you know how much it hurts the game, you know all of it you just are not sincere, you lie and gaslight people and appeal to emotion with your ludicrous comments on how you are such a good guys that do nothing wrong etc.

How can you claim abuse when the GMs say it wasn't abuse, they even specifically OK'd it beforehand, AND we reported it after we did it the first time?

Do you categorize people leveling with magic before the mdef fix as abuse too? Where does it end?

Can you link a better source for your defense penalty thing? Another private servers wiki isn't really a valid source for figuring out how this worked in episode 6.

Overall you just come off as some salty player that was too smooth brain to figure out efficient leveling ways beyond knifing Porings, angrily lashing out when you realize people played more efficient than you and then proceeding to defame the server and its administration.

Also can you stop linking to basic concepts on wikipedia like some "I'm smarter than everyone else" 14 yo that has recently learned some new vocabulary? These terms are common knowledge, you're not "flexing" in the way you think you are.

Quote from: Saegys on Sep 20, 2021, 09:26 AM
How can you claim abuse when the GMs say it wasn't abuse, they even specifically OK'd it beforehand, AND we reported it after we did it the first time?

Do you categorize people leveling with magic before the mdef fix as abuse too? Where does it end?

Can you link a better source for your defense penalty thing? Another private servers wiki isn't really a valid source for figuring out how this worked in episode 6.

Overall you just come off as some salty player that was too smooth brain to figure out efficient leveling ways beyond knifing Porings, angrily lashing out when you realize people played more efficient than you and then proceeding to defame the server and its administration.

Also can you stop linking to basic concepts on wikipedia like some "I'm smarter than everyone else" 14 yo that has recently learned some new vocabulary? These terms are common knowledge, you're not "flexing" in the way you think you are.

"How can you claim abuse when the GMs say it wasn't abuse, they even specifically OK'd it beforehand, AND we reported it after we did it the first time?" -This is you, you know it, stop pretending:

Quote from: lungo on Sep 20, 2021, 09:12 AM

This person is trying to gaslight everyone into believing this is a "non issue" but this are his own words about this situation:

(https://i.ibb.co/nw0ZRbB/abusivecuntagrees.png) (https://ibb.co/nw0ZRbB)

He knows how much this hurts the game, he knows this is an abuse, his own words is that: "RO is full of ABUSIVE s***" but still tries to gaslight people into believing "this is not an abuse"

This is called a FREUDIAN SLIP: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freudian_slip

"In psychoanalysis, a Freudian slip, also called parapraxis, is an error in speech, memory, or physical action that occurs due to the interference of an unconscious subdued wish or internal train of thought. Classical examples involve slips of the tongue, but psychoanalytic theory also embraces misreadings, mishearings, mistypings, temporary forgettings, and the mislaying and losing of objects."

"Do you categorize people leveling with magic before the mdef fix as abuse too? Where does it end?" -False equivalence, I and most people didn't knew about this, we didn't make magic characters specifically to take advantage of a situation and the fix of this reduced magic damage around 1.5k for a lvl 10 bolt, so not even close to the damage that the exploit you abused.

"Can you link a better source for your defense penalty thing? Another private servers wiki isn't really a valid source for figuring out how this worked in episode 6"- Yeah, go ask the GM's because is getting changed, yeah, better abuse it while you still can because yor infinite mobbing without reductions is bye bye.

"Overall you just come off as some salty player that was too smooth brain to figure out efficient leveling ways beyond knifing Porings, angrily lashing out when you realize people played more efficient than you and then proceeding to defame the server and its administration." -Typical adhominem and a pitiful appeal to ridicule fallacy, this is what can you expect from someone that was anhilated in a debate left with 0 resources left. This is not defamation "smooth brain" this are facts and those were your own words on my last post, I gues you didn't thought I had all the receits.

"Also can you stop linking to basic concepts on wikipedia like some "I'm smarter than everyone else" 14 yo that has recently learned some new vocabulary? These terms are common knowledge, you're not "flexing" in the way you think you are."-More ad hominems and appeal to ridicule, typical like I said from someone that just got destroyed and also I notice a lot of jelousy there, yeah, not my fault I can actually debate, present arguments and expose fallacious thought like a champ.

Quote from: lungo on Sep 20, 2021, 09:12 AM
This whole post is just a pathetic attempt of an abuser to rationalize their actions to the public in order to gaslight them to appear as if they did nothing wrong.

This person is wrong about the defense, completely wrong even saying that this only beneficial to MS monks, shows complete lack of knowledge of the game for someone that says to know a lot. This bug is letting all classes that rely on vit and defense to tank an infinite amount of mobs with no penalites, this is OriginsRO wiki:

(https://i.ibb.co/185bBXY/1.png) (https://ibb.co/185bBXY)
(https://i.ibb.co/SVS55H0/2.png) (https://ibb.co/SVS55H0)

All the people that I contacted that are actual experts on the game and do know what they are talking about were mind blown by RetRO not having this accurately and it IS big deal compared to what this ignorant person is saying.

I never asked the MDEF bug to stay, I don't know why this abuser is even implying that. My review needed to mention it so people can grasp all the mistakes, errors and overal incompetence that happened on the server that as a whole made me want to quit.

The Majorous explanation is like I said at the begining just a sad attempt to normalize an exploit, is a cynical gaslighting attempt of what happened and an appeal to emotion fallacy so the people once again look at them as the poor misunderstood people that were just playing the game "normally".

• "we initially did this we got to 50m/h combined party exp while leeching up our guild brewer,"
• "This felt very much like cheesing the game
• "we continued leeching 2-3 more characters after refining the strategy"
• "getting up to combined 75m/h over the next two days"

This is what a member of this guild or this person himself was saying on Discord when he is not looking for symphaty from the people (to appeal to emotion) basically with the mask off:

(https://i.ibb.co/WzhPvTR/cynicalabusivecunt.png) (https://ibb.co/WzhPvTR)

This person is trying to gaslight everyone into believing this is a "non issue" but this are his own words about this situation:

(https://i.ibb.co/nw0ZRbB/abusivecuntagrees.png) (https://ibb.co/nw0ZRbB)

He knows how much this hurts the game, he knows this is an abuse, his own words is that: "RO is full of ABUSIVE s***" but still tries to gaslight people into believing "this is not an abuse"

This is called a FREUDIAN SLIP: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freudian_slip

"In psychoanalysis, a Freudian slip, also called parapraxis, is an error in speech, memory, or physical action that occurs due to the interference of an unconscious subdued wish or internal train of thought. Classical examples involve slips of the tongue, but psychoanalytic theory also embraces misreadings, mishearings, mistypings, temporary forgettings, and the mislaying and losing of objects."

This person says I don't have the "mental capacity"? don't make laugh, i perfectly understand what happened and so do you, you just want to pretend that this was nothing out of the ordinary but you or whoever that person on the screenshots is, sure likes to gloat about how you people abused this exploit, you know how much it hurts the game, you know all of it you just are not sincere, you lie and gaslight people and appeal to emotion with your ludicrous comments on how you are such a good guys that do nothing wrong etc.

bruh stfu. if the GMs says that leveling method was allowed, then theres no abuse. stop bashing other guilds for playing the game the way it was intended/allowed. stop crying that you have no friends/guilds to play with to figure out how the game are are originally was back in the day. also, stop using other pserver wikis to validate your point it made you sounds like an idiot. just quit and stop posting and move on to the next server. dont need a cry baby like you who complains about everything, heck this guy even complain about a community event some player hosted. whoever reading this thread, you guys should know that this guy is a total joke.

I was just kicked from the Discord of RetRO and expect to be banned from the game.

This is really sad that the GM's would go and do this to cover themselves.

Maybe its a good idea to stop spreading lies and misinformation. And while you're at it you should probably stop spamming people and slandering everyone nonstop and get your facts straight  /ok

Quote from: Morrigan on Sep 20, 2021, 10:44 AM
Maybe its a good idea to stop spreading lies and misinformation. And while you're at it you should probably stop spamming people and slandering everyone nonstop and get your facts straight  /ok

No, this is clear abuse of power to protect exploiters and privileged big guilds my facts are 100% straight and everyone reading this thread can see what is happening here don't bother with your gaslighting.

Funny thing is the GM's actually believe they are hurting me when they are hurting themselves with this action to kick me out and banning me from their game which hasn't happened but I know it will.

You keep using the term gaslighting and I don't think you know what it means.

RO Buddies reported the method to the GMs yet you claim that they're abusing the server? Why would they do that if they only leveled 2-3 characters and reported it the day they found out?

Dear players and readers of this topic,

we would like to let you know that the user named lungo, aka Contrarion, aka Kukulkan, aka Takemura, aka KnightsAreIllogicallyOP, aka Kaichu, aka klungoco, aka Ataktos
has been removed from our Discord server and will get permanently banned from retRO.

We do no longer tolerate such destructive behavior, spreading rumors and lies based upon false assumptions and half-knowledge to manipulate the opinions of players who are interested to play on our server.
Also, we do not take part in this out-of-hand discussion. Having a good or a bad opinion about a server and sharing it is one thing. Trying all and everything to ruin the reputation of a server just because some decisions are not
to someone's liking, is a whole other story. We do not invest our free time and savings into our project to be subject to such condescending and badmouthing commentary.

Thank you for playing on retRO and good luck on another server, lungo.

Sidenote: lungo was, despite saying otherwise in this topic, still playing on retRO up to this point.

retRO Staff

Quote from: Deja on Sep 20, 2021, 11:28 AM
Dear players and readers of this topic,

we would like to let you know that the user named lungo, aka Contrarion, aka Kukulkan, aka Takemura, aka KnightsAreIllogicallyOP, aka Kaichu, aka klungoco, aka Ataktos
has been removed from our Discord server and will get permanently banned from retRO.

We do no longer tolerate such destructive behavior, spreading rumors and lies based upon false assumptions and half-knowledge to manipulate the opinions of players who are interested to play on our server.
Also, we do not take part in this out-of-hand discussion. Having a good or a bad opinion about a server and sharing it is one thing. Trying all and everything to ruin the reputation of a server just because some decisions are not
to someone's liking, is a whole other story. We do not invest our free time and savings into our project to be subject to such condescending and badmouthing commentary.

Thank you for playing on retRO and good luck on another server, lungo.

Sidenote: lungo was, despite saying otherwise in this topic, still playing on retRO up to this point.

retRO Staff

Basically I'm being banned for exposing the problems of the server, thats it. I did nothing, I respected the rules of the server contrary to the people you are protecting and even made my review as respectful as possible to the staff but this will only hurt you more in the end than me, I don't need your server dude and you are leaving with this lashing action a precedent that if you ever expose the problems of the server you will get banned.

This will be my last post on this topic and if the moderators decide to close it i don't mind, it has been invaded by trolls etc and I will not engage in such low behavior, I could post DM's too and expose people but I am above that, I respect people's right for privacy.

All I'm going to say I know I am not the best person and have a lot to change but I made this review with my heart because I cared for the server, there is objectivity and an emotional part on that review, I invested a lot into the server (me and my Girlfriend actually, and the GM's know this to be correct), months of my life that won't come back and I just wanted things to be better, I wanted the staff to act and do something but ultimatelly they just will going to ban me, I will not insult them or attack them(or expose their personal data), I don't agree with the way they are lashing on me or their resolution and even if this is what I got for my months of loyalty it's ok I'll live.

People get mad at me because I counter argument their disagreements etc. what am I supposed to do? just don't counter them so people don't get offended that I have better arguments than them?, I believe I didn't engaged in personal attacks with anyone here but if somehow you feel offended by something I said I am sorry. I won't though apologize for being good at debating.

I hope the review doesn't get deleted because that is the purpose of all this late spam going on.

The end.

Its pretty childish to see one of the guilds exposed here coordinate an attempt to spam this thread and demean the OP by dragging it off-topic on purpose, insult the OP to provoke him, act juvenile, and so on. I think they spam the topic on purpose because they want to bait OP. There wasnt a single thing he said about the bugs and the majorous exploit that wasnt well-supported with hard evidence

It also questionable to see the admin post here and release OPs personal information (??) without responding anything about the massive exp exploit that was hidden abused on his server or the rest of the review. He isnt the only one who quit over this and you would think the administration would be concerned about this rather than trying to get get back at the guy. Thats another red flag to me

Quote from: lungo on Sep 20, 2021, 09:12 AM
This is what a member of this guild or this person himself was saying on Discord when he is not looking for symphaty from the people (to appeal to emotion) basically with the mask off:

(https://i.ibb.co/WzhPvTR/cynicalabusivecunt.png) (https://ibb.co/WzhPvTR)

He knows how much this hurts the game, he knows this is an abuse, his own words is that: "RO is full of ABUSIVE s***" but still tries to gaslight people into believing "this is not an abuse"

Thank you for posting this. This is the smoking gun to me. He admitted they leveled a dancer from lv53 to 90 in 1 hour and 27 minutes. And potter from 68 to 90 in under 2 hours. And certain guilds were privately doing this for how long?? Thats a MAJOR EXPLOIT that destroys the integrity of a 1x server and there needs to be a rollback now or a wipe especially because many of the powerleveled characters are woe and econ builds. The guilds who were doing this hid it from the public for months "with permission" and I just find it unlikely that the admins can claim complete ignorance. It was only changed now that the broader public caught onto it too but without a single person punished and that just only highlights how completely unfair it is. privileges for the insider guilds, none for everyone else

Quote from: Rayeth on Sep 20, 2021, 05:36 AM
Guild account? what is that even mean? All guild members can share that account? This is how you abuse a rank brewer potter or blacksmith. Literally the entire guild can rank a character with multiple people using it. Regular players with no guild wont stand a chance. lol

Yea and thats not even considering the the majorous exploit. I always thought that was strange as it defeats the point of a "single client" server

Quote from: InsomniacTV on Sep 20, 2021, 01:53 PM
Thats a MAJOR EXPLOIT that destroys the integrity of a 1x server and there needs to be a rollback now or a wipe especially because many of the powerleveled characters are woe and econ builds. The guilds who were doing this hid it from the public for months "with permission" and I just find it unlikely that the admins can claim complete ignorance. It was only changed now that the broader public caught onto it too but without a single person punished and that just only highlights how completely unfair it is. privileges for the insider guilds, none for everyone else

Yea and thats not even considering the the majorous exploit. I always thought that was strange as it defeats the point of a "single client" server

Calm down son, you were rambling on about how bad this server was, on reddit with the same ID before this incident.

In anycase, this exploit is a byproduct of official behavior of a half finished game from the early 2000s. I don't see how it warrants a ban or reroll.
If you are smart enough to figure out the exploit, then you deserve some credit.

Literally no other MMORPG bans players for exploiting bugs that don't effect other players. It's a online video game, not a gulag.

You have a point about the GMs claiming complete ignorance is sorta not satisfactory enough of an answer. The exploit should have been patched out earlier. But they have been pretty open about how they want to make sure to not deviate too much from official episodic changes, and this behavior change is not an episodic one. Its official behavior.

Also what do you even mean by "the players who did it, hid it for months", how does one hide something in a map that can be accessed by everyone. And if you mean that they would stop doing it if someone else showed up to the spot. Well yeah that sucks, but there is nothing wrong with it, they are sneaky selfish pricks true, but that's about it.


Regarding favoritism, anyone can do the exploit themselves, everyone was allowed on the map. You can argue that setting up the gl_in01 for Sage worms and lvl 20 players getting 800 exp per mob and speed running to lvl 50 is an exploit. What constitutes as an exploit is how one views it. I don't see how a player(ban) or the whole server(reroll) should be punished because of the dumb oversight of some devs back in 2002.

Peace out

Quote from: xtarinos on Sep 21, 2021, 03:08 AM
You can argue that setting up the gl_in01 for Sage worms and lvl 20 players getting 800 exp per mob and speed running to lvl 50 is an exploit. What constitutes as an exploit is how one views it. I don't see how a player(ban) or the whole server(reroll) should be punished because of the dumb oversight of some devs back in 2002.
Peace out

thats true,
One guild once made a "charity" server event, purely to help other new ppls from the server (and this actually shows how cool and helpful the comunity is)

they setup the sageworm map (snatched away all other monsters),  placed 2 bards and 2 dancers for 2 fields of exp song,  and others from that guild lured, tanked inside the exp song and buffed all the newbies that joined them.
iirc, the newbies did like more than 1,5k job exp each monster, for each player, in a whole 12man share party.
the chars were job 4X in like no time.

exp song + taps = huge deal in Ro.
organized strats > solo gameplay  in any MMO
thats a legit way to play.

some ppls be like:  "this is unfair, i wasnt online at this time, they had a huge bonus, i didnt, its very unlikely that these newbies were new players - im sure they were just friends of those guilds"
and some others be like:  "well, thats RO.  sad i wasnt online at that time. maybe another event like this comes soon and i can join too."

Why are people complaining about the classic experience on a classic style server? That's literally how officials players levelled up back in the day.

Wait until Lord of Death comes around!

More gaslighting from people that want to manipulate the people opinion saying this is "normal" and even that this players should be rewarded for exploiting. If this was knew then it should have been patched because clearly this hurts the server and defeats the purpose of x1 rates.

Once again with false equivalences comparing this to other method of group leveling, like i said: more of the same gaslighting.

The same refuted argument about the map being open to "everyone" when not everyone even knew this was a thing, and not everyone has the group of people and the malice to figure out ways to break the game on purpose or take advantage of things like this that clearly hurt the server. I for one if had knew this before I would have reported this behavior to be changed but the people that were doing this were completely quiet about it and didn't really shared it until the gms made the announcement many people didn't knew.

I cared for the server, i would have reported this immediately, the people that abused this clearly don't and in their own words they will look for other things to exploit in the future.

It doesn't come as a surprise though since all the server desicions are made to favor guilds, those skill changes are to favor guilds, they didn't think about the leveling of alchemist because they know guilds can leech them anyway but they sure cared about bards and monks(woe ones) so they could have a good leveling experience. Same why they made the whole guild account to share alchemist and blacksmith defeating the whole purpose of a no multi account server, this guilds demanded a personal brewer and blacksmith, the argument against this was presented that solo players would not have a chance against this guilds in the rankings and they didn't give a damn for them, the argument that it hurts player interaction in a social MMO was presented too about how guilds should hire real players playing this classes (brewer, smith) was also discarded. This is not the first major exploit guilds pull off and the same as before, nothing happens and it seems it is always "allowed" so they can not act, they just say "it was our fault so we can not punish people or compensate" well yeah obviously it is because for some reason you are not acting on the interest of the health of your server and leaving it open for abuses like this only for no consequences after it happens.

If this was known and reported this should have been patched way before same with all the other things that happened and the ones that will keep happening if the same way of management phylosophy keeps going.

I said I was not going to reply anymore but I can't just allow people to have the last word minimizing the staff behavior specially after saying they will ban me for bringing my review and concerns to the public, never once broke any rule of the game or did something bad that could have done harm to the server because I truly cared about it and this is why I get this frustrated over this situation i just care too much for the damage that has been done and frustrates me that nothing is being done to repair it, yeah the exploit was patched but the damage is already done and it is big damage, if this were a server x5 and up i honestly wouldn't care but we all agreed to play x1, because it was slow, it took time we didn't agree to this only for a few to level up characters to lvl 90 in one hour, anyone that believes that is normal behavior or it should be allowed is insane.

Something a lot of people seem to be missing or are misunderstanding is these claims of 70m per character is going to be on each take.  It isn't be 70m for everyone in the party. It's 11 people (real people, because there's no multiclient) that are all working for no exp of their own to boost one person.  1h30 to get 90, assuming that's true, would be like 18 hours in an even share party.

Comparing that to a 12man "normal" party in magma with a coordinated setup where every single member taps with shoes and exp song, 18 hours of maximum efficiency grinding to hit 90 would be pretty reasonable (especially considering there's no mob fatigue). But that's not as shocking, right?

Quote from: neethree on Sep 21, 2021, 07:16 AM
Something a lot of people seem to be missing or are misunderstanding is these claims of 70m per character is going to be on each take.  It isn't be 70m for everyone in the party. It's 11 people (real people, because there's no multiclient) that are all working for no exp of their own to boost one person.  1h30 to get 90, assuming that's true, would be like 18 hours in an even share party.

Comparing that to a 12man "normal" party in magma with a coordinated setup where every single member taps with shoes and exp song, 18 hours of maximum efficiency grinding to hit 90 would be pretty reasonable (especially considering there's no mob fatigue). But that's not as shocking, right?

This is not what happened and the evidence itself refutes this:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=midl932EYy8 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=midl932EYy8)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PP1a66GMpII (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PP1a66GMpII)

(https://i.ibb.co/c1Wzcnq/list-of-discord-comments.png) (https://ibb.co/c1Wzcnq)

(https://i.ibb.co/1vgst66/majobug.png) (https://ibb.co/1vgst66)

(https://i.ibb.co/WzhPvTR/cynicalabusivecunt.png) (https://ibb.co/WzhPvTR)

The abusers own words is that this is nothing like magma, at all.

Quote from: lungo on Sep 21, 2021, 07:24 AM
This is not what happened and the evidence itself refutes this:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=midl932EYy8 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=midl932EYy8)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PP1a66GMpII (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PP1a66GMpII)
The abusers own words is that this is nothing like magma, at all.

It's mathematically the only way it would be possible, and actually the screenshots do prove this.
Minorous gives 2750 base EXP.
11 taps at +25% each = 10312.5.
Exp song at +80% = 18562.5

This is the exact figure in the screenshot.

40 Majos on the map. Majo spawns 2 Minos every 60 seconds.

80 Minos killed every 60 seconds = 89m exp, the absolute max possible in their setup.

70mil as an end result sounds about right considering downtime and mistakes, this is only physically possible on each take for the killer. Even Even Share in a duo would not by physically possible to be above 45m an hour given the figures above.

Claims of 20m per person in the party means the party will have been 4 at max.

So, it's not as scary when you break it down, as I said it's comparable to 18 hours tryhard grinding in a share party of 12 to hit 90 which is not outrageous  I feel like a lot of people saw the headlines of 1 character getting 70m exp an hour and assumed it was multiple characters getting 70mil each.

Quote from: neethree on Sep 21, 2021, 08:02 AM
It's mathematically the only way it would be possible, and actually the screenshots do prove this.
Minorous gives 2750 base EXP.
11 taps at +25% each = 10312.5.
Exp song at +80% = 18562.5

This is the exact figure in the screenshot.

40 Majos on the map. Majo spawns 2 Minos every 60 seconds.

80 Minos killed every 60 seconds = 89m exp, the absolute max possible in their setup.

70mil as an end result sounds about right considering downtime and mistakes, this is only physically possible on each take for the killer. Even Even Share in a duo would not by physically possible to be above 45m an hour given the figures above.

Claims of 20m per person in the party means the party will have been 4 at max.

So, it's not as scary when you break it down, as I said it's comparable to 18 hours tryhard grinding in a share party of 12 to hit 90 which is not outrageous  I feel like a lot of people saw the headlines of 1 character getting 70m exp an hour and assumed it was multiple characters getting 70mil each.

There is video evidence of the exp bar getting up like crazy and the abusers themselves confesing their doings and you are still trying to argue against the facts, it is mind blowing.

Quote from: lungo on Sep 21, 2021, 08:06 AM
There is video evidence of the exp bar getting up like crazy and the abusers themselves confesing their doings and you are still trying to argue against the facts, it is mind blowing.

Im not arguing facts, I'm presenting them - calm down and look at the numbers, calculate it yourself. it doesn't matter if they claim they made 200m, is not mechanically or mathematically possible to make 70m per hour per person, and if you've misunderstood that based on a Discord chat then it's your mistake.

Quote from: neethree on Sep 21, 2021, 08:16 AM
Im not arguing facts, I'm presenting them - calm down and look at the numbers, calculate it yourself. it doesn't matter if they claim they made 200m, is not mechanically or mathematically possible to make 70m per hour per person, and if you've misunderstood that based on a Discord chat then it's your mistake.

The evidence itself shows what they did, there screenshot of what they say they did, there is screenshots of the exp gained per majorous and there is video of the exp bar going up:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=midl932EYy8 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=midl932EYy8)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PP1a66GMpII (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PP1a66GMpII)

(https://i.ibb.co/c1Wzcnq/list-of-discord-comments.png) (https://ibb.co/c1Wzcnq)

(https://i.ibb.co/1vgst66/majobug.png) (https://ibb.co/1vgst66)

(https://i.ibb.co/WzhPvTR/cynicalabusivecunt.png) (https://ibb.co/WzhPvTR)

You are incurring in a moving the goalpost fallacy: previously you claimed that this kind of things were part of the game and thus people doing this clever use of game mechanics were nothing new,NOW you don't say it is anything special and your tirade now is to try to make it appear as if this is nothing special, you are too easy to figure out.

Its actually both. To hit the numbers you are presenting, they would have to know exactly what they were doing. They would have to be able to kill the slaves but not the majorous. Because otherwise they would have to remob the map again and majorous are slow.

Additionally they would have to have been on each take to hit the numbers on your screenshot, because it is mathematically impossible otherwise.

You would need maximum number of tapper and an exp song, as well as a killer / leecher.

Also at least one priest for emergencys, an wiz for icewalls and so on. So more like 15 people working for one person gaining exp. Its fast exp no doubt, but magma 2 would be much better for the party as a whole and much much better in terms of loot, so I dont get your anger in the matter.

Just as a sidenote, I am no member of a major guild and did not level there. I play mostly solo or with 2 friends and did not profit from the slave behavior in any way. Also I would never level anywhere without loot anyway, as items are much harder to come by on a 1x rate server than experience.

So relax, check your numbers again and maybe reevaluate the situation :)

Quote from: Wosi2 on Sep 21, 2021, 08:45 AM
Its actually both. To hit the numbers you are presenting, they would have to know exactly what they were doing. They would have to be able to kill the slaves but not the majorous. Because otherwise they would have to remob the map again and majorous are slow.

Additionally they would have to have been on each take to hit the numbers on your screenshot, because it is mathematically impossible otherwise.

You would need maximum number of tapper and an exp song, as well as a killer / leecher.

Also at least one priest for emergencys, an wiz for icewalls and so on. So more like 15 people working for one person gaining exp. Its fast exp no doubt, but magma 2 would be much better for the party as a whole and much much better in terms of loot, so I dont get your anger in the matter.

Just as a sidenote, I am no member of a major guild and did not level there. I play mostly solo or with 2 friends and did not profit from the slave behavior in any way. Also I would never level anywhere without loot anyway, as items are much harder to come by on a 1x rate server than experience.

So relax, check your numbers again and maybe reevaluate the situation :)

Sorry but I trust the evidence and the facts not random people trying gaslight me and I also trust the abusers because they themselves did it and know what they did, they know the ins and outs and they describe it on the evidence, they also say there is "crucial information" not being shared on their dialogues, they themselves know this is not on the level of magma dungeon and there is video of the exp bar going up in rates that should not be possible, they themselves say they leveled up multiple characters using this method in an hour, this is not normal.

The speed in which you answer and the answer itself shows that you really are not open to reevaluate your stance and to really understand arguments that contradict your own. Whether this is intentional or an oversight, only you can know.

If you really read what I wrote, then you would have noticed, that I told you to look at your evidence again and reevaluate your conclusions and not to ignore the evidence before you.

Just my 5 cents, do with it what you will.

Quote from: Wosi2 on Sep 21, 2021, 08:59 AM
The speed in which you answer and the answer itself shows that you really are not open to reevaluate your stance and to really understand arguments that contradict your own. Whether this is intentional or an oversight, only you can know.

If you really read what I wrote, then you would have noticed, that I told you to look at your evidence again and reevaluate your conclusions and not to ignore the evidence before you.

Just my 5 cents, do with it what you will.

There is nothing to reevaluate, your gaslighting will not work. the evidence speaks for itself.


"You need tons of classes for this, a party of quintillion players!!!" Nope:
(https://i.ibb.co/6b16TP7/4classes.png) (https://ibb.co/6b16TP7)

Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=midl932EYy8 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=midl932EYy8)

"But this is normal behavior, nothing out of the ordinary, it is impossible that one person was receiving such amount of exp" Nope again:
(https://i.ibb.co/2dNLThK/accomplishments.png) (https://ibb.co/2dNLThK)

Video of this actually happening: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PP1a66GMpII (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PP1a66GMpII)

"It is the same as a magma party!" aaaand, NOPE:
(https://i.ibb.co/NxZZK9F/magma.png) (https://ibb.co/NxZZK9F)

The abusers own words admit that is was not healthy for the game and it was part of all the abusive "****" that plagues RO:

(https://i.ibb.co/RptR2Zw/abusivecuntagrees.png) (https://ibb.co/RptR2Zw)

I think you have not enough understanding of game mechanics. It's easy to focus on hysteria, but it doesn't matter if the 'abuser' says he made 200mil exp solo - a claim on Discord isn't evidence, people brag, people misunderstand - so instead, you have to look at the game mechanics as proof of what is possible.  Firstly, understand that 4800 minorous per hour is the absolute max that can be killed. The game won't physically spawn more than that as they're on a time delay.  40 Majos on the map, 2 Minos per Majo, with a 60 second cooldown for the summon slave skill.  40 * 2 * 60 = 4800. Bear that in mind when looking at the rest, this is an immutable hard cap.

"You need tons of classes for this, a party of quintillion players!!!" Nope:

You can do it with 4, but you won't get 70mil. Note he said "could" - the method of icewalling to farm the slaves could be done like that, not that 70m exp could be done like that.
Note in the video tappers and exp song aren't present (which would be required for 70m), nor does it show killing or exp. Without tappers and exp song, the mob can't physically reach high enough exp to total those numbers at a rate of 4800 mobs per hour.

"But this is normal behavior, nothing out of the ordinary, it is impossible that one person was receiving such amount of exp" Nope again:

Video of this actually happening: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PP1a66GMpII (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PP1a66GMpII)
It is possible one person recieved such exp, but only one person.
It's a heavily edited meme video. You can see during the exp bar segment the blur of gameplay at the bottom is significantly sped up, but even if it wasn't it's a standalone clip that doesn't back up that multiple characters are getting 70m an hour.

"It is the same as a magma party!" aaaand, NOPE:
I mean, 50m an hour is not really that far off from 70m an hour.

If you're basing your disagreement on the fact people were getting 70mil an hour on one character, thats fine, but it seems there is still misunderstanding going on. And the outrage is understandable if you thought people were getting 70m each haha.

Quote from: lungo on Sep 21, 2021, 08:20 AM
The evidence itself shows what they did, there screenshot of what they say they did, there is screenshots of the exp gained per majorous and there is video of the exp bar going up:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=midl932EYy8 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=midl932EYy8)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PP1a66GMpII (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PP1a66GMpII)

(https://i.ibb.co/c1Wzcnq/list-of-discord-comments.png) (https://ibb.co/c1Wzcnq)

(https://i.ibb.co/1vgst66/majobug.png) (https://ibb.co/1vgst66)

(https://i.ibb.co/WzhPvTR/cynicalabusivecunt.png) (https://ibb.co/WzhPvTR)

You are incurring in a moving the goalpost fallacy: previously you claimed that this kind of things were part of the game and thus people doing this clever use of game mechanics were nothing new,NOW you don't say it is anything special and your tirade now is to try to make it appear as if this is nothing special, you are too easy to figure out.

That xp is still going to only 1 person and it requires 11 other people to support them. The others will not be getting xp.

Here's another video since you like sharing my other video so much. (Don't forget to like and subscribe!)
https://youtu.be/eHEYG2ML68I (https://youtu.be/eHEYG2ML68I)

This is the 4 man set up when we were trying to work out the sanc tactic. Each mino gave a measely 1278 per kill on a 2 way share. So yes, you can do it with a small party but to get the insane numbers in the screenshot you need people that can tap safely along with xp song.

You said you trust facts so that's it there. You don't get 75m xp on 12 players in a party, you get it on 1 with 11 people supporting you.
And if you're a class that can't do ranged AOE to kill well then you're gonna need to share that 75m with a damage dealer.

Also

Quote from: lungo on Sep 20, 2021, 01:47 PM
This will be my last post on this topic

I guess not huh?

Quote from: neethree on Sep 21, 2021, 10:32 AM
I think you have not enough understanding of game mechanics. It's easy to focus on hysteria, but it doesn't matter if the 'abuser' says he made 200mil exp solo - a claim on Discord isn't evidence, people brag, people misunderstand - so instead, you have to look at the game mechanics as proof of what is possible.  Firstly, understand that 4800 minorous per hour is the absolute max that can be killed. The game won't physically spawn more than that as they're on a time delay.  40 Majos on the map, 2 Minos per Majo, with a 60 second cooldown for the summon slave skill.  40 * 2 * 60 = 4800. Bear that in mind when looking at the rest, this is an immutable hard cap.

"You need tons of classes for this, a party of quintillion players!!!" Nope:

You can do it with 4, but you won't get 70mil. Note he said "could" - the method of icewalling to farm the slaves could be done like that, not that 70m exp could be done like that.
Note in the video tappers and exp song aren't present (which would be required for 70m), nor does it show killing or exp. Without tappers and exp song, the mob can't physically reach high enough exp to total those numbers at a rate of 4800 mobs per hour.

"But this is normal behavior, nothing out of the ordinary, it is impossible that one person was receiving such amount of exp" Nope again:

Video of this actually happening: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PP1a66GMpII (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PP1a66GMpII)
It is possible one person recieved such exp, but only one person.
It's a heavily edited meme video. You can see during the exp bar segment the blur of gameplay at the bottom is significantly sped up, but even if it wasn't it's a standalone clip that doesn't back up that multiple characters are getting 70m an hour.

"It is the same as a magma party!" aaaand, NOPE:
I mean, 50m an hour is not really that far off from 70m an hour.

If you're basing your disagreement on the fact people were getting 70mil an hour on one character, thats fine, but it seems there is still misunderstanding going on. And the outrage is understandable if you thought people were getting 70m each haha.

Typical of people like you to argue with the facts, you people like to believe in a dream world where evidence doesn't matter.

The video itself shows how they are funneling the exp to one character "it's edited!" you say, yeah but you can not edit the exp bar going up like that besides the rankings themselves show this to be true and the confesion of the player themselves using this method to level up multiple characters.

You don't even play on this server why are you even here?, you have 0 experience with the issue, you deny the facts and the evidence at this point it is clearly a personal vendetta, a really petty one.

Quote from: E_Fist on Sep 21, 2021, 10:34 AM
That xp is still going to only 1 person and it requires 11 other people to support them. The others will not be getting xp.

Here's another video since you like sharing my other video so much. (Don't forget to like and subscribe!)
https://youtu.be/eHEYG2ML68I (https://youtu.be/eHEYG2ML68I)

This is the 4 man set up when we were trying to work out the sanc tactic. Each mino gave a measely 1278 per kill on a 2 way share. So yes, you can do it with a small party but to get the insane numbers in the screenshot you need people that can tap safely along with xp song.

You said you trust facts so that's it there. You don't get 75m xp on 12 players in a party, you get it on 1 with 11 people supporting you.
And if you're a class that can't do ranged AOE to kill well then you're gonna need to share that 75m with a damage dealer.

Also
I guess not huh?

The whole issue is exactly that, the powerleveling of multiple characters using this method, you speak as if they care multiple people don't receive exp matters to them, it doesn't, the objective was to power level characters, BESIDES, they also said they used this method to level up multiple characters "bro we took lvl 45 s*** to lvl 75 in uder two hours" this all while normal legit players struggle to level up.

Anyone defending this has 0 integrity, the people that don't agree with this have all the right to complain and ask for punishment, rollback or compensation to level the field play for everyone, we agreed to play on x1 servers because we were told that this was going to be slow and take tons of months to level up, we all embraced that phylosphy only for this to happen and slap us all in the face all that we believed the promises. If this were x5 or more I wouldn't be even making the post but seriously WE ALL AGREED ON SOMETHING.

Quote from: neethree on Sep 21, 2021, 10:32 AM
I think you have not enough understanding of game mechanics. It's easy to focus on hysteria, but it doesn't matter if the 'abuser' says he made 200mil exp solo - a claim on Discord isn't evidence, people brag, people misunderstand - so instead, you have to look at the game mechanics as proof of what is possible.  Firstly, understand that 4800 minorous per hour is the absolute max that can be killed. The game won't physically spawn more than that as they're on a time delay.  40 Majos on the map, 2 Minos per Majo, with a 60 second cooldown for the summon slave skill.  40 * 2 * 60 = 4800. Bear that in mind when looking at the rest, this is an immutable hard cap.

"You need tons of classes for this, a party of quintillion players!!!" Nope:

You can do it with 4, but you won't get 70mil. Note he said "could" - the method of icewalling to farm the slaves could be done like that, not that 70m exp could be done like that.
Note in the video tappers and exp song aren't present (which would be required for 70m), nor does it show killing or exp. Without tappers and exp song, the mob can't physically reach high enough exp to total those numbers at a rate of 4800 mobs per hour.

"But this is normal behavior, nothing out of the ordinary, it is impossible that one person was receiving such amount of exp" Nope again:

Video of this actually happening: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PP1a66GMpII (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PP1a66GMpII)
It is possible one person recieved such exp, but only one person.
It's a heavily edited meme video. You can see during the exp bar segment the blur of gameplay at the bottom is significantly sped up, but even if it wasn't it's a standalone clip that doesn't back up that multiple characters are getting 70m an hour.

"It is the same as a magma party!" aaaand, NOPE:
I mean, 50m an hour is not really that far off from 70m an hour.

If you're basing your disagreement on the fact people were getting 70mil an hour on one character, thats fine, but it seems there is still misunderstanding going on. And the outrage is understandable if you thought people were getting 70m each haha.

I already tried breaking this down for him days ago but he wants to keep using false information for his ranting. Logic is wasted on him, it even shows in his reddit post that he is 100% wrong but still argues everyone else is wrong while him and his alts are the only ones right. Topic should be moved to rant and rave as this was never a true review but a slander and lack of knowledge of how the game worked in episode 6, changes in episode 10.3 is years after in the update history for EU server.

Quote from: Shuchou on Sep 21, 2021, 02:23 PM
I already tried breaking this down for him days ago but he wants to keep using false information for his ranting. Logic is wasted on him, it even shows in his reddit post that he is 100% wrong but still argues everyone else is wrong while him and his alts are the only ones right. Topic should be moved to rant and rave as this was never a true review but a slander and lack of knowledge of how the game worked in episode 6, changes in episode 10.3 is years after in the update history for EU server.

More false accusations, strawmans, gaslighting etc litterally 0 arguments to be made, the evidence is there for everyone to see, pretending to manipulate people when they can go and see for themselves the evidence is not only low but outright malicious.

Quote from: lungo on Sep 21, 2021, 03:01 PM
More false accusations, strawmans, gaslighting etc litterally 0 arguments to be made, the evidence is there for everyone to see, pretending to manipulate people when they can go and see for themselves the evidence is not only low but outright malicious.

Evidence that an episode 6 server was setup the way it was on official and was changed due to players pointing out that it could harm the server long term due to the low player population to keep from making use of official and posted months ago that it's allowed content. It has been changed once it was shown that it's not a good idea to leave it in until the episode that changes it rolls around for retRO. If it was being hidden by the player base, guild or over used for months there would be 20+ level 99's of each class but there isn't not even enough level 90's to support your false claims that a set group was abusing it for months. However claiming everyone is gaslighting, abuser, cheaters, or wrong due to how little you really know about the episode changes in RO is not the servers fault but your own, even people that don't play on retRO is telling you you're wrong. Official euRO has changes iRO and kRO doesn't have as well as the other way around for each of the official servers as they were adjusted based on the regions playerbase target. Learn the games update and change history before misleading others, only gaslighter, strawman, false accuser in this thread has been you and your other fresh alt accounts. Heck you were banned from the retRO discord for spamming the channel with hate and misinformation, you were asked to stop by the staff but kept going. You even started DMing people insulting them, because they disagreed with you. Most of the proof to back your claims that slave mobs didn't give exp/loot was from a trans+ episode wiki for iRO, not euRO.

Quote from: lungo on Sep 21, 2021, 04:23 PM
https://forum.ratemyserver.net/server-reviews/retro-a-server-that-i-considered-the-best-but-can't-recommend-anymore-(review)/msg202398/#msg202398

Due to you not having any solid euRO official proof that it wasn't intended and can only post cut outs of the players OPENLY talking with the staff and community why it should be changed. An announcement about this was posted by the staff the day before your cut outs, as stated by the staff it was how the Aegis server for episode 6 had slave mobs set and they are following that servers settings. So not a group of players told the staff to make a change to help them, even in your cut outs Azsura said they spent three weeks leveling a character to 91, but if they WOULD have used the newly found method would have only took two hours.



Staff edit: replaced repeated content with link to previous post.

Quote from: Shuchou on Sep 21, 2021, 04:57 PM
Due to you not having any solid euRO official proof that it wasn't intended and can only post cut outs of the players OPENLY talking with the staff and community why it should be changed. An announcement about this was posted by the staff the day before your cut outs, as stated by the staff it was how the Aegis server for episode 6 had slave mobs set and they are following that servers settings. So not a group of players told the staff to make a change to help them, even in your cut outs Azsura said they spent three weeks leveling a character to 91, but if they WOULD have used the newly found method would have only took two hours.

I saw that announcement myself, there is nothing new there, this was the announcement they made when they decided to remove the Majorous exploit.

The fact of the matter is this was an "allowed" method that hurt the server integrity during the time it was allowed, there is proof of people using this methid to level up characters quickly in less than 2 hours, they themselves admit to this on the screenshots I have postes multiple times.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
And once again I post this:

https://forum.ratemyserver.net/server-reviews/retro-a-server-that-i-considered-the-best-but-can't-recommend-anymore-(review)/msg202398/#msg202398


Staff edit: replaced repeated content with link to previous post.

The ban has been applied to my account:

(https://i.ibb.co/frq7TQg/Sin-t-tulo.png) (https://ibb.co/frq7TQg)

Any player that wants to play on this server or planned to should remember that demanding a fair game for everyone will get you banned, if you expose the staff of this server mistakes and blatant favoritism toward certain group of players you will get banned

You need to understand that this server from the beginning showed blatand favoritism to guilds and every desicion is made for the benefit of them, I never thought it would be to the level of covering up blatant exp exploits and banning honest players for asking for fair play, we all agreed on x1 rates server, we never agreed that it would be only for certain people and those abusers would get the benefit of exploiting the game with no consequences, in the end this hurts more the server than me, not only do this ban makes them look terrible on the eyes of the people but the exploiters they are protecting WILL destroy the server, mark my words, those people won't stop at this, they will do more damage and ultimately the server will die. It's already hard to make people play on x1 servers and will be more difficult for them to join this one after this post knowing that not only that they ban innocent people but they also protect exploiters.

I did what I had to do, from the beginning of creating this review I knew this was going to end like this, I knew the risks of exposing this situation, I'm no saint but I have certain degree of integrity and moral values that can't compromise for a game (a high seas server), I care for the server and I did what I had to do, it was never in my hands to make the change, I said that from the beginning I regret nothing, I would do this again, I would fight the fight again because just being quiet and compliant serves no purpose. I have nothing more to say or add, I know people will still come to justify this situation, it doesn't matter, the evidence is here, the facts are on my side and this is now truly the end, everyone should just move on but never forget this happened.

I am at peace.

Hello I level many characters to 99 on bRO in past

Before rebirth classes a good exp rate for the normal character is 1 million exp hr and with the best gears and months of hard work some characters can get 2 million exp hr. 75 or 85 million exps was not possible. Getting 30 levels in just 1 hour is normally not possible even on 10x exp server and going level 60 to level 90 in 1 hour is not possible

I wouldnt play a server that take no action against player group who exploit

Quote from: lungo on Sep 21, 2021, 05:27 PM
The ban has been applied to my account:

(https://i.ibb.co/frq7TQg/Sin-t-tulo.png) (https://ibb.co/frq7TQg)

Any player that wants to play on this server or planned to should remember that demanding a fair game for everyone will get you banned, if you expose the staff of this server mistakes and blatant favoritism toward certain group of players you will get banned

You need to understand that this server from the beginning showed blatand favoritism to guilds and every desicion is made for the benefit of them, I never thought it would be to the level of covering up blatant exp exploits and banning honest players for asking for fair play, we all agreed on x1 rates server, we never agreed that it would be only for certain people and those abusers would get the benefit of exploiting the game with no consequences, in the end this hurts more the server than me, not only do this ban makes them look terrible on the eyes of the people but the exploiters they are protecting WILL destroy the server, mark my words, those people won't stop at this, they will do more damage and ultimately the server will die. It's already hard to make people play on x1 servers and will be more difficult for them to join this one after this post knowing that not only that they ban innocent people but they also protect exploiters.

I did what I had to do, from the beginning of creating this review I knew this was going to end like this, I knew the risks of exposing this situation, I'm no saint but I have certain degree of integrity and moral values that can't compromise for a game (a high seas server), I care for the server and I did what I had to do, it was never in my hands to make the change, I said that from the beginning I regret nothing, I would do this again, I would fight the fight again because just being quiet and compliant serves no purpose. I have nothing more to say or add, I know people will still come to justify this situation, it doesn't matter, the evidence is here, the facts are on my side and this is now truly the end, everyone should just move on but never forget this happened.

I am at peace.

You were not banned for wanting fair game play but for misinforming, lying, insulting, and continuing when asked to stop doing so on discord and ingame. You disregarded the information the staff shared on the matter and what others players on the server and those on here that do not play on the server has told you. You clearly have set out on an agenda to try and harm the server yet failed, new players are joining the discord and installing the game asking for low level parties.

Quote from: Shuchou on Sep 21, 2021, 07:43 PM
You were not banned for wanting fair game play but for misinforming, lying, insulting, and continuing when asked to stop doing so on discord and ingame.

IM SORRY THIS IS JUST AN OUTRIGHT LIE!

I could not even write on discord (I had a limited role for months an agreement I got with the GM's because I like to debate and win debates, so people don't like that so in order to be allowed on discord I agreed to this, in fact I PROPOSED to be limited, only could write on the Market section), and NEVER IN GAME INSULTED ANYONE in fact NEVER brought this review subject to the game AT ALL!, this just completely shows you are an evil piece of work dude seriously.

I can not believe this people to outright make up lies like this.

If you want to keep defending the exploit, be my guest but don't be a coward and an evil piece of work and outright lie like this.

Here is proof that I had a limited role and the GM'S agreed on this:

This one is from April, I lost my old Discord account and I instead of just going rogue making another one I TOLD THE HEAD ADMINISTRATOR that I did a new account due to losing my previous account, you know why? because I gave my word to them, yeah I have integrity, something a liar like you doesn't have.
(https://i.ibb.co/THqfX6D/1.png) (https://ibb.co/THqfX6D)


This is the only time I wrote outside the market channels allowed for me and was when they introduced "threads" and just gave my opinion on an exp event thread, that was on August:
(https://i.ibb.co/v33ntWs/2.png) (https://ibb.co/v33ntWs)

Ingame I have nothing to share because I never got into trouble with anyone or violated rules etc. One time a LONG time ago with my merchant said something that got me muted for an hour but that was me venting out (and what i said was directed at nobody in particular just wrote something in mayus in general chat complaining about aldebaran being the "main town")  but that was a long time ago and the only time I ever got muted.

I bet you don't even know what my character names are.

One thing I know is I WOULD LOVE TO SEE THE EVIDENCE YOU HAVE OF YOUR CLAIM ABOUT ME BEING BANNED FOR INSULTING ON DISCORD AND INGAME ABOUT THIS REVIEW.


Go ahead, I am waiting.

To me it clearly looks like he was banned for exposing the heavy guild favoritism and the corrupt way this was handled

They should be focused on trying to fix the critical exp imbalance this created rather than trying to get people who write reviews on it... its not normal and it wasnt official. The server should be rolledback or wiped if they refuse to ban the people who kept abusing it

Quote from: lungo on Sep 21, 2021, 05:27 PM
I am at peace.

im not so sure about that tho.
i mean check how many hours each day you waste into that topic, all those emotions we can read through ur texts while ignoring facts based on fixed game mechanics and maths.
So many other ppls (not fresh accounts) that have tryed but failed to have a normal discussion in this thread.
as someone already said, this topic isnt really a review anymore but tends more to a rant.

and while noone else is complaining anymore, not on discord, not ingame, not here (instead of freshly made accounts each day that are highly suspect)
you are still trying hard to keep on going.
everyone is over it and we just keep on playing the game we all love.
why cant you make the same?

now its time to just play the game, on the new server that you have found, have fun, and THEN im sure you can find inner peace again.

there are bigger goals in life and decisions you can be proud of,  than trying to bash a server solo, while everyone else is lol'ing instead about this thread.

I really can't comprehend how many 'people' seem to be ignoring the explanations of official game mechanics to continue crying exploit to the point that I'm starting to think this is an organised smear campaign. I don't believe in good faith that this many people don't understand it.

Like clockwork, there's been a negative review from newly made accounts every day parroting the same fearmongering misinformation.

Bizarre.

@lungo

You don't have to argue with these people. You can  tell from the replies that they don't even  know anything about how the classic ro works. You were presenting PROBLEMS and they obviously ignoring what you are saying and are taking it as an "attack" or "smear campaign." This is a review, where are the moderators? You are just not presenting one issue here but multiple problems and yet they are ignoring the facts. Obviously they will never get it because they don't know exactly how the game mechanics works, atleast from what I am saying from the replies. lol

Quote from: Rayeth on Sep 22, 2021, 04:01 AM
@lungo

You don't have to argue with these people. You can  tell from the replies that they don't even  know anything about how the classic ro works. You were presenting PROBLEMS and they obviously ignoring what you are saying and are taking it as an "attack" or "smear campaign." This is a review, where are the moderators? You are just not presenting one issue here but multiple problems and yet they are ignoring the facts. Obviously they will never get it because they don't know exactly how the game mechanics works, atleast from what I am saying from the replies. lol

Indeed, i was truly not going to answer anymore to anyone trying to come up once again with the same stuff I already explained dozens of times, there is hard evidence here, now if you believe this is an only me problem you should go to the review page on the main RMS page, many people have come to leave a review saying the same things i said, when reviews like this are fake the owners of the site delete them but those are not deleted yet so they truly are more people upset about this.

I just came because someone dared to outright lie about the motives of my ban, i can not just leave when someone outright lies about that, i came to present the proof that he was lying about this and see if he could actually back up his lies with evidence, he won't come back because it is impossible for him to present evidence of something that never happened, i never talked about any of the topics in this review on discord (i had limited role, couldn't type anything but the market section) or in-game i never violated any rules in game, this person doesn't even know what characters i owned. I just came for that.

I won't argue with the other ones, the other dude that says i am not at peace is wrong, i am at peace with this situation, time will set things straight and i did what I had to do, i don't regret anything.

Keep saying whatever you want, just don't make up lies please have the decency of that at least people.

Quote from: Rayeth on Sep 22, 2021, 04:01 AM
@lungo

You don't have to argue with these people. You can  tell from the replies that they don't even  know anything about how the classic ro works. You were presenting PROBLEMS and they obviously ignoring what you are saying and are taking it as an "attack" or "smear campaign." This is a review, where are the moderators? You are just not presenting one issue here but multiple problems and yet they are ignoring the facts. Obviously they will never get it because they don't know exactly how the game mechanics works, atleast from what I am saying from the replies. lol

To be fair, my reference about a smear campaign is the daily reviews all mimicking the same false claim of there being a bug/exploit that people abused for exp, a horrendous server destroying exploit equivalent to being on 50x rates and stuff like that. Without knowing the actual details, which have been explained further back.

OP made a majority fair and objective points, such as the defense bug, poor administration, and no one's arguing that.

Quote from: neethree on Sep 22, 2021, 02:41 AM
I really can't comprehend how many 'people' seem to be ignoring the explanations of official game mechanics to continue crying exploit to the point that I'm starting to think this is an organised smear campaign. I don't believe in good faith that this many people don't understand it.

Like clockwork, there's been a negative review from newly made accounts every day parroting the same fearmongering misinformation.

Bizarre.

You don't play on the server, how do you know people are not genuinelly upset about this? have you talked to people about it? no. You keep talking about "official game mechanics" first you need to bring proof about this, you can not make a claim and then pretend we take it at face value, bring your data that people actually leveled like this in classic, using this clear exploit to level up characters in 1 hour, we would need some video or at least some screenshots of this happening.

Also, assuming this were the case and you brought your receits, your proof and you were correct, you know what else is classic behavior? multi accounts, bard and monks with accurate skills depending on episode, defense being reduced accordingly, magic defense working, only female wives giving SP, this will trigger you and many but there was also not male+male, female+female marriage, there was correct stun locking whenever you were hit, yeah it's awful and one of the reasons I didn't like TravelsRO but that is how it is supposed to be, there are many things that are "classic and official behavior" but are not implemented and there is GOOD REASON for that, this Majorous thing clearly hurt the server this should have been prevented.

There is no "smear campaing" is just people that are legit mad at this situation, like I said you don't even play there, you don't know how many people had quit over this. You know what a smear campaign is?: the one you engaged in with your friends (all of the people that is butthurt that i debated with them in the past and lost) comming here to attack my persona, mock me, manipulate my words, spam, incur in lies and fallacies or even post private information about myself. I talked to you privately, talk like adults and told you what you were doing was wrong and you insisted on being a low vindictive petty person, good thing the mods acted and deleted all you people smearing campaign.

Quote from: lungo on Sep 22, 2021, 10:35 AM
<snip>

I used to play on the server, I'm aware of the situation through reading Discord and seeing discussion from people who still play.
None of the people in this thread are my friends lol. I didn't bring anyone here.  I had a few PMs from people that recognised my sh!tposting and that's about it.  Just sticking my oar in a situation since I'm aware of the mechanics involved. Chill buddy.

FYI I guarantee people will still be making EXP on that sort of scale, even without Minos. 12 tappers and exp song putting all the exp on one character is insane as you can see. The guy even said earlier in the thread they're reaching similar exp/hr in magma post-mino 🤷

Quote from: neethree on Sep 22, 2021, 11:16 AM
I used to play on the server, I'm aware of the situation through reading Discord and seeing discussion from people who still play.
None of the people in this thread are my friends lol. I didn't bring anyone here.  I had a few PMs from people that recognised my sh!tposting and that's about it.  Just sticking my oar in a situation since I'm aware of the mechanics involved. Chill buddy.

FYI I guarantee people will still be making EXP on that sort of scale, even without Minos. 12 tappers and exp song putting all the exp on one character is insane as you can see. The guy even said earlier in the thread they're reaching similar exp/hr in magma post-mino 🤷

So I take you have no proof of your previous claims. Stop posting them then.

Used to play is not the same as activelly playing there, but you were part of Trap Lovers (one of the main bug abusive guilds) so you would be defending this anyway.

About your claims about magma, the abuser own words (once again):

(https://i.ibb.co/w4RdvSh/magma.png) (https://ibb.co/w4RdvSh)

The exploiters will be the doom of that server I already told that, I know this people won't stop and the staff honestly is just incompetent or compliant with this so you are right about them going to find more ways to do whatever the hell they want.

This is a pretty toxic take on retro.Its a decent server and with time it will only get better.This situation reminds me of originsro pre trans. Same deal,people rubbed their brain cells togather, took advantage of exp tap and relatively empty maps to exp fast(i.e seals,sea otters,niff) using signums cruisis tap and mr kim plus monster of the day.(mind you this server allows duel clienting)Is it bannable offense,esp when the GM's give it a green light? No.Not worth rollback either. This is just a prime example of a group of people coming together to min-max their experience. Obviously the GM's have learned from their grave mistake.You know its bad when guilds start pm'ing you about the situation, but whatever it happens.Just like on originsro,they eventually removed singmus cruises exp tap,added water ball proc on sea otters so they were not mobbable anymore as well as fatigue,and certain monster of the day removed after people abused the s*** out of it.They also had another issue with grand cross on oro where it  wasnt working as intended,and didnt even provide stat resets to crusaders despite their mistake. Its a learning progress,but this is just way out to left field by the orginal poster to paint a bad picture on a otherwise decent and wholesome community.If you want to experience 1x oldschool,this is a pretty good server.This thread should be closed by now  /...

Quote from: Charity Case on Sep 23, 2021, 10:39 PM
This is a pretty toxic take on retro.Its a decent server and with time it will only get better.This situation reminds me of originsro pre trans. Same deal,people rubbed their brain cells togather, took advantage of exp tap and relatively empty maps to exp fast(i.e seals,sea otters,niff) using signums cruisis tap and mr kim plus monster of the day.(mind you this server allows duel clienting)Is it bannable offense,esp when the GM's give it a green light? No.Not worth rollback either. This is just a prime example of a group of people coming together to min-max their experience. Obviously the GM's have learned from their grave mistake.You know its bad when guilds start pm'ing you about the situation, but whatever it happens.Just like on originsro,they eventually removed singmus cruises exp tap,added water ball proc on sea otters so they were not mobbable anymore as well as fatigue,and certain monster of the day removed after people abused the s*** out of it.They also had another issue with grand cross on oro where it  wasnt working as intended,and didnt even provide stat resets to crusaders despite their mistake. Its a learning progress,but this is just way out to left field by the orginal poster to paint a bad picture on a otherwise decent and wholesome community.If you want to experience 1x oldschool,this is a pretty good server.This thread should be closed by now  /...

Is not toxic to make a review and present facts of the issues of a server. Your comparison with Origins RO is false equivalence because OriginsRO is a x5 rates server, no one really cares about exp there, here it was supposed to be x1 but then you have people powerleveling characters in less than an hour, that should have been patched, the GM's knew about this they just let certain people abuse it for a time and then when it was public knowledge they removed it, RetRO was always a server that was made to favor big guilds and give them benefits, they bend the knee completely to them and wouldn't surprise me one bit if they even gave this guilds starting gear etc just to accomodate them. Every single desicion is made based on what guilds want. I listed many on my review.

What happened with the exp exploit was completely unfair to people that leveled normally and should have never happened, the staff was supposed to do something about this and they didn't they pretended this didn't harmed the server when it did and the damage is pretty damn bad,we all agreed on a fair experience for everyone but so far the only that got a good experience were big guilds, they were the only that were listened and protected.

If you want to talk about toxic, talk about all the people that went from OriginsRO to RetRO that don't even want them back on Origins, some people even with multiple bans on Origins.

The bugs, protection of exploiters,the fact that this server desicions are made in favor of big guilds and baning innocent people for making a reveiw and exposing their problems is something that I can not recommend myself, this is my review and no one gets to dictate my standards and how I rate the server I'm reviewing, go make your own, I don't even going to go there to say anything because I litterally couldn't care less.

If youre that desperate to play ro and willing to compete against a bunch of abusers by spending hundreds+ hours in order to be on par with them... Feel free to do so  /wah
Whether its fixed or not, damages are already there. Look at the price of Minorous Card, thats the concrete example of a broken market.
Bug exploit, broken economy, abusers. 3 strike, im already out xD.
OathRo looks promising tho if u still have that ro sensation in you. Ill see you there

Quote from: felixvu on Sep 24, 2021, 01:25 AM
If youre that desperate to play ro and willing to compete against a bunch of abusers by spending hundreds+ hours in order to be on par with them... Feel free to do so  /wah
Whether its fixed or not, damages are already there. Look at the price of Minorous Card, thats the concrete example of a broken market.
Bug exploit, broken economy, abusers. 3 strike, im already out xD.
OathRo looks promising tho if u still have that ro sensation in you. Ill see you there

Minos don't drop anything after the first kill. There can't be an influx of mino cards on the server if people were not mobbing new majos for new slaves. Nice try though.

Quote from: E_Fist on Sep 24, 2021, 06:54 AM
Minos don't drop anything after the first kill. There can't be an influx of mino cards on the server if people were not mobbing new majos for new slaves. Nice try though.

The slaves indeed didn't drop loot but the Majorous card did dropped it's price inherently due to people farming there, it's not a great card anyways, so is no problem really. The problem is the exp exploit, that is a HUGE problem.

Quote from: lungo on Sep 24, 2021, 09:09 AM
The slaves indeed didn't drop loot but the Majorous card did dropped it's price inherently due to people farming there, it's not a great card anyways, so is no problem really. The problem is the exp exploit, that is a HUGE problem.

Just want to share something regards to that EXP exploit. They could have avoided this issue if they removed the exp from mob slave and the issue is solved. They may have not fixed it because they don't know how to fix it? /hmm

If the owner has already been working on source modification of their server, they should have thought about this would happen as the server rates are 1x, and players especially guilds 100% will always find a way to take advantage compared to single players.

I may be wrong but from a server management point of view, this could have been avoided prior to their server launch. /ok

Quote from: E_Fist on Sep 24, 2021, 06:54 AM
Minos don't drop anything after the first kill. There can't be an influx of mino cards on the server if people were not mobbing new majos for new slaves. Nice try though.

Yeah what about Slave Drop Old Blue Box and Gift Box whenever u kill MVP slave tho? I know its fixed but tell me the price of Santa Poring Card and Gift Box please? Surely its not of the abusers that took advantage of the problem while the Devs didnt care cause of guild favoritism?  /heh
Feels like its bugRO to me than retRO xD. gl hf if ure still enjoying the buggy server.

Quote from: Codehunter on Sep 25, 2021, 01:12 AM
Just want to share something regards to that EXP exploit. They could have avoided this issue if they removed the exp from mob slave and the issue is solved. They may have not fixed it because they don't know how to fix it? /hmm

If the owner has already been working on source modification of their server, they should have thought about this would happen as the server rates are 1x, and players especially guilds 100% will always find a way to take advantage compared to single players.

I may be wrong but from a server management point of view, this could have been avoided prior to their server launch. /ok

Yeah, they could and I agree with you 100% but if you had mdef and defense bugged for the whole server lifespan it just shows the huge incompetence that administration has... but honestly I believe they wanted the Majorous to be exploited by their chosen guilds and only nerfed it when all the people started noticing, huge incompetence or corruption, either way it was bad and the fact that they decided to do nothing about it but patch the exploit shows that this staff can't be trusted, I can not stresss enough why people should not invest their time on that server is a HUGE disappointment on so many levels.

This is what happens when you don't listen to the players that care about your server and even go out of your way to ban them only for making a review:

(https://i.ibb.co/bXtSmsg/ded9.png) (https://ibb.co/WfCb5kW)