Project Alfheim is p2w

Started by Kushiro, Jan 12, 2023, 01:38 AM

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Xaenor

Quote from: Kushiro on Jan 12, 2023, 01:38 AMso if you liked OriginsRO but detested the politically correct, passive agressive cowards that plagued that server, deranged leftists, well too bad because they are there, and they are still the same hypocrite scumbags that unless you are part of their sect they immediately jump all over you making fake accusations and passive agressive attacks to then call an administrator to ban you, you have to play by their rules type of sectarians

First of all, you are out of your goddamn mind. If someone in the main chat/Discord threatens violence, behaves like a bigot or suggests somebody else to harm themselves, they get rightfully muted or banned. That's not being deranged - that's normal.

Second, I've been playing Alfheim for a bit over a year now. Costumes are rewards for donations - and there are many people who donate, because a lot of them genuinely enjoy playing. I am not one of them, but I see the appeal of paying $5 a month to reward Charlie for his work and allow to pay for Ken's efforts.

That being said, good bloody luck selling any of the costumes you receive for donations - like I said, there are many supporters; they receive costumes every month; GMs often (multiple times a week) conduct server-wide events that award free costumes; sometimes, if you are lucky, you can even get a free costume as a gift or find one in one of the hidden treasure boxes around the world.

What I'm saying is that the server is saturated with costumes to the point that funding your character through selling them is, at best, a challenging endeavour. It has always been that way - even in the early months, people had a lot of trouble off-loading the costumes on the market, because they are just cosmetics and there is not a lot of demand for them.

If you actually tried to play and gave us data on how well the costumes sell, I could see your argument as being more valid. As of now, you simply sound upset over a (deserved) Discord ban where you spammed Olympic gifs in response to any counter-arguments from other players.

Nova

Little buddy, listen. You went to their website, you saw all the pink stuff with a fluffy cat and all the colours of the rainbow 🌈.  You saw their cash shop with tradeable donations, yet you still decide to go and play there when you don't like this stuff. And then you tell me that you don't like wasting time on a 1x server.

Little homie, are you okay? What are you doing? Just go do some pull-ups and reflect on your actions. Then when you get rid of your excess youthful energy and you head is clear again, come play Payon Stories. You'd be a perfect fit here.
I am not associated with NovaRO.

Kushiro

Quote from: Xaenor on Jan 12, 2023, 01:59 PM
First of all, you are out of your goddamn mind. If someone in the main chat/Discord threatens violence, behaves like a bigot or suggests somebody else to harm themselves, they get rightfully muted or banned. That's not being deranged - that's normal.

Nice strawman and appeal to emotion.

QuoteSecond, I've been playing Alfheim for a bit over a year now. Costumes are rewards for donations - and there are many people who donate, because a lot of them genuinely enjoy playing. I am not one of them, but I see the appeal of paying $5 a month to reward Charlie for his work and allow to pay for Ken's efforts.

Another appeal to emotion.

QuoteThat being said, good bloody luck selling any of the costumes you receive for donations - like I said, there are many supporters; they receive costumes every month; GMs often (multiple times a week) conduct server-wide events that award free costumes; sometimes, if you are lucky, you can even get a free costume as a gift or find one in one of the hidden treasure boxes around the world.

What I'm saying is that the server is saturated with costumes to the point that funding your character through selling them is, at best, a challenging endeavour. It has always been that way - even in the early months, people had a lot of trouble off-loading the costumes on the market, because they are just cosmetics and there is not a lot of demand for them.

Nice downplaying and damage control.

QuoteIf you actually tried to play and gave us data on how well the costumes sell, I could see your argument as being more valid. As of now, you simply sound upset over a (deserved) Discord ban where you spammed Olympic gifs in response to any counter-arguments from other players.


Xellie

You posted so many gameplay exclusive event reward costumes, I feel like you didn't even play!

Anyway, need a hug?
Quote from: Aurus on Feb 13, 2024, 07:44 PMp.s. you are such a bad and toxic player I hope to never see you or your guild again


iixe

I think that OP f*** is more mad then I am. And that means something.
Charlie created an enviroment that I've never seen before. A Fabre card costs more then a Diabolous Robe, which is usally barely affordable. Price points are shifted in way that basic gear can be collected within a few hours if you start with a 1/1 novice and have space to improve even after months of farming the same thing.

Also, p2w per definition describes a business model that forces you purchse a pool of items that are either unaccessible via f2p or having an item spiral that requires a progression rate that is very hard or sheer impossible to maintain without money. Mobile games often use this. The definition finds acceptance in most mmo comunities. Would be good to know what p2w means. Would make you look less stupid.

Ive seen alot of dumb things over the years but this thread is remarkable.

Sairek Ceareste

Quote from: Kushiro on Jan 12, 2023, 11:55 AM
Isn't that OathRo? the one that just destroyed all the people data and expects them to relevel from zero all over again?, I'm sorry but I don't trust my time to a server that has a history of just killing people time investment like that, besides its x1 server, not playing x1 server again period and precisely because all the x1 servers that have existed all have wasted the people time investment, all have closed or done crap s***, no thanks my time is valuable and a resource I can't get back.


I'd rather myself and the rest of OathRO staff not be associated with the actions of a single individual to which we had no say in.
"We" didn't do anything and were as much victims as the players were. "Oathkeeper" is the one who destroyed players' data.

The only thing the rest of OathRO staff are guilty of is trying to fix what damage Oathkeeper has done and making sure he doesn't get what he wanted. We don't expect everyone to restart, nor do they have to. We however have worked, and are continuing to work diligently that the option for people is there (which we are under no obligation to have to do, mind you). Having an option for people to choose from is better than no option at all in my opinion. It's the best we can do given the circumstances we were dealt.

Oathkeeper, who destroyed everyone's data and undermined all of staff's free labour is gone and is not a part of Payon Stories.



Quote from: iixe on Jan 12, 2023, 09:37 PM
I think that OP f*** is more mad then I am. And that means something.
Charlie created an enviroment that I've never seen before. A Fabre card costs more then a Diabolous Robe, which is usally barely affordable. Price points are shifted in way that basic gear can be collected within a few hours if you start with a 1/1 novice and have space to improve even after months of farming the same thing.

Also, p2w per definition describes a business model that forces you purchse a pool of items that are either unaccessible via f2p or having an item spiral that requires a progression rate that is very hard or sheer impossible to maintain without money. Mobile games often use this. The definition finds acceptance in most mmo comunities. Would be good to know what p2w means. Would make you look less stupid.

Ive seen alot of dumb things over the years but this thread is remarkable.


Isn't the definition of "p2w" described as an aspect of the game allows players to purchase in-game items to gain an advantage?

Because by the definition you provided, something like Diablo Immortal wouldn't be qualified as pay to win, despite the fact that if I swiped my credit card a few times, and you didn't, it would take you potentially decades (no exaggeration) to catch up to me and I would be stronger than you the entire time. Keep in mind that the game also has competitive PvP, so it's not just paying to dominate PvE.
There's also the problem that Diablo Immortal shames its F2P players, but that's another issue entirely.

In a game like Ragnarok Online, the ability to just add millions of total networth to your account instead of having to farm for it with just a few swipes of your credit card seems like an incredibly powerful ability in my eyes that not everyone has access to, but that's just my two cents.


Regardless, servers do need to pay their bills. I think OP would have done better just making a factual review and trying to put biases aside. Then people can just make the informed decision if they do or don't want to play there. Harping on this specific issue so aggressively just makes everything come off as disingenuous, even if it is true.

iixe

Quote from: Sairek Ceareste on Jan 12, 2023, 11:41 PM
Isn't the definition of "p2w" described as an aspect of the game allows players to purchase in-game items to gain an advantage?

Because by the definition you provided, something like Diablo Immortal wouldn't be qualified as pay to win, despite the fact that if I swiped my credit card a few times, and you didn't, it would take you potentially decades (no exaggeration) to catch up to me and I would be stronger than you the entire time. Keep in mind that the game also has competitive PvP, so it's not just paying to dominate PvE.
There's also the problem that Diablo Immortal shames its F2P players, but that's another issue entirely.
Wrong.
Diablo has set a requirement to max out gear that is technically impossible to reach as f2p even you would grind your entire life. That falls under already mentioned item spiral. In this case they just came up with it on start, not even an update is required anymore to make it worse. They went full ham from the very beginning.
It also falls under p2w because you get an advantage f2ps dont have (was higher rune chance or whatever). As 1:1 equivalent for that behavior in ro you would want to offer account bound bubble gums as exclusive item in the cash shop.

There definitely is an advantage. True non-p2w would be account bound/master account bound costumes. As someone already mentioned here, the market is saturated and competed.

I hope this clown show goes on for a while.

Kushiro

Quote from: Sairek Ceareste on Jan 12, 2023, 11:41 PM

I'd rather myself and the rest of OathRO staff not be associated with the actions of a single individual to which we had no say in.
"We" didn't do anything and were as much victims as the players were. "Oathkeeper" is the one who destroyed players' data.

The only thing the rest of OathRO staff are guilty of is trying to fix what damage Oathkeeper has done and making sure he doesn't get what he wanted. We don't expect everyone to restart, nor do they have to. We however have worked, and are continuing to work diligently that the option for people is there (which we are under no obligation to have to do, mind you). Having an option for people to choose from is better than no option at all in my opinion. It's the best we can do given the circumstances we were dealt.

Oathkeeper, who destroyed everyone's data and undermined all of staff's free labour is gone and is not a part of Payon Stories.




Isn't the definition of "p2w" described as an aspect of the game allows players to purchase in-game items to gain an advantage?

Because by the definition you provided, something like Diablo Immortal wouldn't be qualified as pay to win, despite the fact that if I swiped my credit card a few times, and you didn't, it would take you potentially decades (no exaggeration) to catch up to me and I would be stronger than you the entire time. Keep in mind that the game also has competitive PvP, so it's not just paying to dominate PvE.
There's also the problem that Diablo Immortal shames its F2P players, but that's another issue entirely.

In a game like Ragnarok Online, the ability to just add millions of total networth to your account instead of having to farm for it with just a few swipes of your credit card seems like an incredibly powerful ability in my eyes that not everyone has access to, but that's just my two cents.


Regardless, servers do need to pay their bills. I think OP would have done better just making a factual review and trying to put biases aside. Then people can just make the informed decision if they do or don't want to play there. Harping on this specific issue so aggressively just makes everything come off as disingenuous, even if it is true.

Hey dude, I hope you are doing ok, I'm sorry if I sounded like I dumped everyone on the same trash can, is just that making everyone start  from 0 even if it's not your fault at all it realy pisses me off, not saying this to lash on to you particularly or anything but farming on x1 is a nightmare and people do it because they think their time investment is protected and when they find it wasn't and not only that now they have to start over it really is a slap in the face, I personally wouldn't do it again, but I hope your server recovers and now you guys actually back up player data.

About my review I think it's fair, I did give credit to the server where it deserves and I really liked this server but that whole costume thing nah, that is blatant p2w is just dumb, the way I answer to the people that come and poke at me etc it's because either they blatantly lie to everybody, try to make excuses or outright insult me and attack me, I don't have to be respectful to liars, manipulators and people that attack me.

yC

Kushiro, you talk big but you are hiding under a disposable email address.  We do not allow users to hide under (potentially) different identity for obvious reasons.  It also means you reject all contact from our forum, then why you expect us to share your review with the communities?

Since you have an opinion to share, why don't you update your email address on the account to resolve that?  I'll give that 24 hours and if nothing is done I'll have no choice but to junk this topic.  You can use the forum function to update your email address on profile.

* This message is not delivered in pm for the reason that if the topic goes to the junk yard later, here is the reason *

Kushiro

#24
Quote from: yC on Jan 13, 2023, 05:09 AM
Kushiro, you talk big but you are hiding under a disposable email address.  We do not allow users to hide under (potentially) different identity for obvious reasons.  It also means you reject all contact from our forum, then why you expect us to share your review with the communities?

Since you have an opinion to share, why don't you update your email address on the account to resolve that?  I'll give that 24 hours and if nothing is done I'll have no choice but to junk this topic.  You can use the forum function to update your email address on profile.

* This message is not delivered in pm for the reason that if the topic goes to the junk yard later, here is the reason *

Everyone has the right to remain anonimous if they want, you are too by "hiding" behind an online name and an avatar, you don't really have the right to have my personal data nor you are entitled to it.

I updated my e-mail adress to a non disposable one, the reason I do this is because I don't want my e-mail with tons of useless e-mails and potentially phishing or identity theft emails, if billion dollar companies "lose" e-mails and even passwords do you think I really trust any pserver or the rate my server website to just give my e-mail?, you talk as if i am commiting a crime for being careful to not give away my personal info on the net as if any of you don't do that too.

Are you being pressured by the server owner to delete my review? because maybe you should consider pressuring them just like you just did with me to actually put the truth on their adds because they only communicate that they have "ONLY COSMETIC CASH SHOP" to mislead the potential players into believing the server isn't p2w when in fact it is by allowing this costumes to be sold via zenny and that info is nowhere to be found.


EDIT

The edit I made was to bold out the part in which I said I complied to the demands of the staff, I didn't touched anything else, and I did this because the owner of the server I am exposing now is trying to pass this post as a "threat" when none of this is in fact a threat to anybody, this guy wants to get this review removed because it THREATENS his cashing in p2w costumes on his server and this should tell anybody that reads this how malicious this person is trying to stir things up when nothing I wrote here in this response to the staff is threatening or an intent to threat them in any way, I didn't tell them I was going to do anything bad to them or their website etc. I didn't say anything similar to anybody not even this person that is trying to stir up things where there aren't. Don't believe him, he obviously is desperate to take my review down and I can see this guy pressuring the staff to remove my review, don't fall for it.

Nova

You need to chill out. Other than decorating their server like a wedding cake, they haven't done anything wrong. You should have been here when Lord J was still around, then you would have seen how far people can really take it. Unless...
I am not associated with NovaRO.

PriestsDontHeal

You have a lot of valid points that I'm pretty sure that if they were communicated by a different person could be taken seriously by a reasonable admin and considered to improve the server. But it is pretty clear that you are an insufferable human being and I understand why you were shunned by the community, I don't play Alfheim but ... good riddance everyone, I am honestly hoping that you don't end up in the server where I play.

You strike me as the guy that took a Logic 101 class ten years ago and thinks he is Mario Bunge ever since, a perfect depiction of the Dunning-Kruger bias.


Kushiro

Quote from: Nova on Jan 13, 2023, 01:09 PM
You need to chill out. Other than decorating their server like a wedding cake, they haven't done anything wrong. You should have been here when Lord J was still around, then you would have seen how far people can really take it. Unless...

Selling p2w costumes is very wrong to me.

Kushiro

Quote from: PriestsDontHeal on Jan 13, 2023, 01:10 PM
You have a lot of valid points that I'm pretty sure that if they were communicated by a different person could be taken seriously by a reasonable admin and considered to improve the server. But it is pretty clear that you are an insufferable human being and I understand why you were shunned by the community, I don't play Alfheim but ... good riddance everyone, I am honestly hoping that you don't end up in the server where I play.

You strike me as the guy that took a Logic 101 class ten years ago and thinks he is Mario Bunge ever since, a perfect depiction of the Dunning-Kruger bias.

I have valid points but you dislike I am using logic and reason? well you to me sound like one of those people that actually dislike logic and reason because they are perpetually offended by everything.

PriestsDontHeal

#29
Quote from: Kushiro on Jan 13, 2023, 02:26 PM
I have valid points but you dislike I am using logic and reason? well you to me sound like one of those people that actually dislike logic and reason because they are perpetually offended by everything.

I am all for logic and reason, I dedicated my whole adult life to studying it, and I literally both teach it and apply it for a living.

I dislike the fact that you emptily throw the words "logic and reason" around just to think you are smarter than everyone when in reality your post was 20% valid points, 80% fallacies and cognitive biases, and 100% you being an obnoxious a******. Like I said, you are a perfect example of a Dunning-Kruger bias and as long as you don't learn how to better communicate with other human beings you will keep getting shunned by every community regardless of how smart you think you are (you are not). Anyone can take an "Introduction to Logic" class and start yelling the name of various fallacies onto people's faces, that doesn't make you a Logician or a Philosopher. People that actually know how to apply logic in their argumentation are usually able to pinpoint the biases in their own rethoric as well, not just in others', but you need something called intelectual honesty for that.

It is very clear that your opinions and the way you communicate them were not welcome neither in Alfheim nor here in this forum. Alfheim is a private server and they are welcome to do whatever the hell they want with it, you can't do anything about it. So why don't you "apply logic and reason" and move on now? I'm sure there's plenty of other servers that could use your brilliant "gigachad philosopher" input.