RateMyServer Ragnarok Community

RateMyServer.Net => Server Reviews => Topic started by: Kushiro on Jan 12, 2023, 01:38 AM

Title: Project Alfheim is p2w
Post by: Kushiro on Jan 12, 2023, 01:38 AM
I was trying this server because it has some interesting ideas and to try to be fair and not make this review revolve around what I personally find really distateful I will put in bullet points what I liked about the server or what I considered are the strong points in it that made me want to try it:


Now the bad stuff:


The typical gaslighting  to defend s*** P2W games is going to be spewed by the defenders of the server, the typical mental gymnastics that people with no shame use to defend P2W crap in games is going to be used, it is pointless because the fact remains:

You can convert real money into zenny, meaning someone with the money will pay to get ahead of others and it is even more scummy because the people buying will get a costume while this P2Winner will get real zenny advantage to be ahead of everyone else, this opens up many alleys for zenny buyers too, people do this on servers that is not allowed what do you think they are going to do on servers like this? They will obviously take advantage of this it's a no brainer, and this completely ruins the game, Ragnarok is a game about farming when someone can just slide their credit card and earns what he hasn't worked for in-game it kills the mood of the game it just isn't fair for all the people playing hours and hours to get their money when an rich a****** can just slide their card and make more than someone farming, it really defeats all the purpose of the game.

And that is my review of the game, P2W kills games.

If you think I am liying or the defenders of this practices appear and come with their attempts of minimizing the situation, you know damage control or downplaying the situation I'll leave you with some proof that this is not only common but it's very well known as truth in the server and it is not rare at all, tons of people actually do this and it is pretty lucrative:

(https://i.ibb.co/nC2C88n/IMG-20230112-010602.jpg) (https://ibb.co/cL5LXXC)

(https://i.ibb.co/P5rXgCt/IMG-20230112-010527.jpg) (https://ibb.co/cNyfQTx)

(https://i.ibb.co/nDjRHP5/IMG-20230112-010501.jpg) (https://ibb.co/zSZNy60)

(https://i.ibb.co/3f1q6Np/IMG-20230112-010440.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Q89RSNP)

(https://i.ibb.co/R6rtshd/IMG-20230112-010408.jpg) (https://ibb.co/2MVRC8H)

(https://i.ibb.co/gdvnq8X/IMG-20230112-010348.jpg) (https://ibb.co/7Qg9MDT)

(https://i.ibb.co/MszB6dG/IMG-20230112-010324.jpg) (https://ibb.co/TkQWLyb)

(https://i.ibb.co/8DDyDmD/IMG-20230112-010218.jpg) (https://ibb.co/TBBQBwB)

(https://i.ibb.co/bHr10ft/IMG-20230112-010138.jpg) (https://ibb.co/B4gLp1k)

(https://i.ibb.co/kJtYd2z/IMG-20230112-010108.jpg) (https://ibb.co/r3VnW2q)

(https://i.ibb.co/wBG8TFZ/IMG-20230112-010042.jpg) (https://ibb.co/FmZc9Lk)

EDIT:

One of the things you can use zenny for on this server is to basically guarantee drops at a certain amount of kills, so this means p2w people not only do they get more resources to work with they also have an edge on the amount of drops they can get because they can basically guarantee items dropping for them with zenny, this is a mechanic available to everybody but the p2winners will have an edge on using this mechanic because they can generate zenny faster by just sliding their credit cards:

(https://i.ibb.co/SdWh6VC/p2w.png) (https://ibb.co/s6k0gsY)

EDIT:

The mental gymnastics of this people:
(https://i.ibb.co/FxfC3CQ/template-mental-gymnastics-1993-0c6db91aec9c.jpg) (https://ibb.co/YRKwQw5)

I'm going to add that I have received some criticism I think is fair : that expecting a pserver with better infrasctructure and customer support than officials is an idiocy, it would be if I really expected that, I know is unrealistic and I am not against the donations themselves I am against them giving an advantaje to people in game, which makes this whole thing more infurating to me because the devs KNOW what they are doing, they knew people were going to use this avenue to p2w and they knew they could cash in with this but then they have the balls to use a clear textbook example of a red herring fallacy saying: "we just sell cosmetics", yeah nice way to deviate the attention to the core of the issue which is people converting real money into zenny, which essentially at is core is zenny buying is legal on that server and it will be exploited not only to do the standard p2w crap but to actually sell stuff for real money, RMT are easier than ever on that server. I know pservers donations are ok but the moment they become a transaction in which is no longer a donation but an outright shop I have a problem, and more so when this directly translates into ingame advantage.
Title: Re: Project Alfheim is p2w
Post by: GBA on Jan 12, 2023, 04:24 AM
Aren't you the same person who joined the discord and got upset when people were counter-arguing your points so you went on a tirade and started posting gifs of people doing Olympics instead of talking formally and engaging in constructive conversation? Also if you're going to screenshot at least give the whole context of the situation/conversation (but since you got muted of course you'd probably want to vent about it on RMS) context: Project alfheim has Battlegrounds and instead of the usual BG gears that most people are formal with instead you can spend your tokens on gaining rare PvP/BG exclusive Costumes that take 3-4 hours of Battleground tokens depending on if you win or lose to obtain (hence the high cost of them) I respect you can have your opinion on the server but I can't stand people who leave stuff out of context intentionally
Title: Re: Project Alfheim is p2w
Post by: Nova on Jan 12, 2023, 09:24 AM
AlfheimRO is so pink and bubbly, when I entered their website and discord, it felt a bit like walking into the bedroom of a very girly teenage girl again, but without the excitement and anticipation. It was like I walked into a house made of pink bubblegum. It was so forcefully sweet, pink and bubbly wubbly that I turned 360 and just got out of there pretty much instantly without even trying the server out.

As for your point, idk if I would call that P2W as the costumes are purely cosmetic, right? It's more like...Hmmm...Pay2Skip maybe? Someone else can come up with a better name for it. But here's the thing, if you make cosmetic items account-bound, you're gonna get people who will complain about that. I can imagine some BR dude be like; "why u make this untradeable don't u know our brazilian pezos (or w/e coins they use) are only worth 1/100 of a dollar is too expensive wtf!!" or something along those lines. No offence btw, this could easily be someone from the PPNS as well, just giving an example. If you sell Flapping Angel Wings for $100 and someone like me buys it, no matter how hard they worked ingame, others wouldn't be able to get it and that's not cool either(for them). Having said that, I am in favour of untradeable cosmetic items if it helps with server costs and staff motivation. And if people complain about it, look the world isn't fair, suck it up.

Title: Re: Project Alfheim is p2w
Post by: kaitosyn on Jan 12, 2023, 09:46 AM
I wanted to back you up, really. But the moment I read "you don't have the right to monetize this game", I feel like your logic doesn't make any sense. Yes, they don't have the right to monetize from other people property because it's >>>ILLEGAL<<<....but, don't you know playing in a private server even for 1 min or 1 sec, or even you downloaded the installer or join the server's community is also >>>ILLEGAL<<< ?
Basically you are the same as that server too.
If you think that server is s***, doesn't that means you are also a s*** too? Because I think both of the server and you doing the same thing that illegal, so....

The more civilized way to response your rant, do you know that opening a Private Server required some money to maintain (electricity bills, food etc) and I assume that server is also paying for the monthly fee VPS or if they have several GMs, I'm pretty sure they don't work for free also.

So, if they don't monetize this server, would you be kind enough to tell or teach us with your ungodly knowledge how to maintain the server without money?
Title: Re: Project Alfheim is p2w
Post by: charlielovesu on Jan 12, 2023, 11:02 AM
"I am going to add that many of the toxic a****** from OriginsRO are on this server so if you liked OriginsRO but detested the politically correct, passive agressive cowards that plagued that server, deranged leftists, well too bad because they are there, and they are still the same hypocrite scumbags that unless you are part of their sect they immediately jump all over you making fake accusations and passive agressive attacks to then call an administrator to ban you, you have to play by their rules type of sectarians."


deranged leftists, politically correct?

Ah yes, forgive me for banning hate speech and toxicity.



You must be the guy in discord who just went on the longest rant and instigated s*** earlier over and over when people told you to stop. If you think the server is pay to win, by all means don't play.

I don't give a f***. I never will care who plays or does not play my server. The server has a cash shop so it can fund itself and we can pay our devs what they are actually worth as well as buy anything else we need for the server in terms of custom sprites/maps, etc.


I could provide an entirely free product sure, but considering I am already putting in 8+ hours a days of work, and so is Ken (my co-owner and lead developer), I think its fair to have  a cosmetic only cash shop. (there is literally nothing else but costumes in there)

If you don't like it go play another server that doesn't have any cash shop. they exist. they don't have 1900 players like we do, but hey. You might like it more. And that's totally fine. No hard feelings. Like I said, I don't really give a f***.

Just find it amusing that your post makes it seem like we have some giga toxic community, but you call us deranged leftists as well. beautiful.
Title: Re: Project Alfheim is p2w
Post by: Kushiro on Jan 12, 2023, 11:15 AM
As you can see they don't deny they sell the costumes and keep insisting with the RED HERRING that this are only cosmetics but that isn't the point the point is: THAT YOU CAN SELL THEM FOR ZENNY ESSENTIALLY CONVERTING REAL MONEY INTO ZENNY, that is the real argument and the reality of the situation.
Title: Re: Project Alfheim is p2w
Post by: Kushiro on Jan 12, 2023, 11:18 AM
Quote from: kaitosyn on Jan 12, 2023, 09:46 AM
I wanted to back you up, really. But the moment I read "you don't have the right to monetize this game", I feel like your logic doesn't make any sense. Yes, they don't have the right to monetize from other people property because it's >>>ILLEGAL<<<....but, don't you know playing in a private server even for 1 min or 1 sec, or even you downloaded the installer or join the server's community is also >>>ILLEGAL<<< ?
Basically you are the same as that server too.
If you think that server is s***, doesn't that means you are also a s*** too? Because I think both of the server and you doing the same thing that illegal, so....

The more civilized way to response your rant, do you know that opening a Private Server required some money to maintain (electricity bills, food etc) and I assume that server is also paying for the monthly fee VPS or if they have several GMs, I'm pretty sure they don't work for free also.

So, if they don't monetize this server, would you be kind enough to tell or teach us with your ungodly knowledge how to maintain the server without money?

False equivalency, it's not the same to play on a pirate server than to actually make the server and even benefit economically from private property, is not remotely on the same level, never in history a company has sued anyone for playing on a pirate server they sue the ones providing the pirate service and more so if they are gaining an economical benefit from it.
Title: Re: Project Alfheim is p2w
Post by: Kushiro on Jan 12, 2023, 11:23 AM
Quote from: Nova on Jan 12, 2023, 09:24 AM

As for your point, idk if I would call that P2W as the costumes are purely cosmetic, right? It's more like...Hmmm...Pay2Skip maybe? Someone else can come up with a better name for it. But here's the thing, if you make cosmetic items account-bound, you're gonna get people who will complain about that. I can imagine some BR dude be like; "why u make this untradeable don't u know our brazilian pezos (or w/e coins they use) are only worth 1/100 of a dollar is too expensive wtf!!" or something along those lines. No offence btw, this could easily be someone from the PPNS as well, just giving an example. If you sell Flapping Angel Wings for $100 and someone like me buys it, no matter how hard they worked ingame, others wouldn't be able to get it and that's not cool either(for them). Having said that, I am in favour of untradeable cosmetic items if it helps with server costs and staff motivation. And if people complain about it, look the world isn't fair, suck it up.

Stop with the crap dude, stop the gaslighting and the s***, you know this is p2w stop trying to downplay the situation, the point is anyone can outright convert real money into zenny that is the point and guess what? PEOPLE ARE DOING IT as shown in the screenshots I posted it, if people can tolerate that fine, thats their call but stop downplaying it and all this gaslighting that always come from people defending p2w trash, at least be honest about it because what it is more infuriationg about this p2w situations is not even that is p2w but the fact that they pretend it isn't and all the gaslighting that comes with it. If you are making a p2w server or if you are playing on one at least have the balls to admit it at least be honest about it and if people decide to play there even after someone explained the p2w it's their right to do so but dishonesty and gaslighting is worse than the act of p2w itself.
Title: Re: Project Alfheim is p2w
Post by: Nova on Jan 12, 2023, 11:41 AM
Buddy chill, I'm just saying. I play on a non-donation server maybe you should join us there. Or did you actually start playing there without knowing they sell tradeable costumes?
Title: Re: Project Alfheim is p2w
Post by: Kushiro on Jan 12, 2023, 11:45 AM
Quote from: Nova on Jan 12, 2023, 11:41 AM
Buddy chill, I'm just saying. I play on a non-donation server maybe you should join us there. Or did you actually start playing there without knowing they sell tradeable costumes?

What servers that are actually good that don't have this p2w crap exist right now?

No, I was fully aware you can buy costumes, you see that is exactly the problem, they advertise themselves as a non p2w server but they are, they just use a red herring fallacy saying: we aren't p2w we just sell cosmetics in our cash shop but they completely not tell you that people buying those costumes can and are selling them ingame for zenny which is 100% p2w.
Title: Re: Project Alfheim is p2w
Post by: Nova on Jan 12, 2023, 11:51 AM
Payon Stories. They have legit 500 players online with only single client allowed. 1x without donations.
Title: Re: Project Alfheim is p2w
Post by: Kushiro on Jan 12, 2023, 11:55 AM
Quote from: Nova on Jan 12, 2023, 11:51 AM
Payon Stories. They have legit 500 players online with only single client allowed. 1x without donations.

Isn't that OathRo? the one that just destroyed all the people data and expects them to relevel from zero all over again?, I'm sorry but I don't trust my time to a server that has a history of just killing people time investment like that, besides its x1 server, not playing x1 server again period and precisely because all the x1 servers that have existed all have wasted the people time investment, all have closed or done crap s***, no thanks my time is valuable and a resource I can't get back.
Title: Re: Project Alfheim is p2w
Post by: Nova on Jan 12, 2023, 11:58 AM
In that case if you value your time you can join Hustlers University where you can learn 8 ways of modern wealth creation methods for only $50 a month. And get big and strong while you're at it.
Title: Re: Project Alfheim is p2w
Post by: kaitosyn on Jan 12, 2023, 12:27 PM
Quote from: Kushiro on Jan 12, 2023, 11:18 AM
False equivalency, it's not the same to play on a pirate server than to actually make the server and even benefit economically from private property, is not remotely on the same level, never in history a company has sued anyone for playing on a pirate server they sue the ones providing the pirate service and more so if they are gaining an economical benefit from it.

It really just a simple way to think....You use money from a robber that just rob a bank with the knowledge about where that money coming from, the cops won't arrest you? :D Even your existence (including all of us) right now in this forum can be counted as illegal. The moment we make an account in here or private server while we also know and understand that this forum right now provide PS info and the server you join provide illegal service is already make us a criminal and make us in the same shoes as those private server owner, while the difference is we enjoy illegal service and the PS owner enjoy our donation money. So what you wrote about "They don't have the right to monetize blablabla" kinda HYPOCRITE, don't you think?

With the way you think about stuff, for some reason I can feel like you still a youngster with short fuse. I hope I am wrong because this game is kinda old, and is kinda rare to see youngster nowadays play it.
Title: Re: Project Alfheim is p2w
Post by: Kushiro on Jan 12, 2023, 12:59 PM
Quote from: kaitosyn on Jan 12, 2023, 12:27 PM
It really just a simple way to think....You use money from a robber that just rob a bank with the knowledge about where that money coming from, the cops won't arrest you? :D Even your existence (including all of us) right now in this forum can be counted as illegal. The moment we make an account in here or private server while we also know and understand that this forum right now provide PS info and the server you join provide illegal service is already make us a criminal and make us in the same shoes as those private server owner, while the difference is we enjoy illegal service and the PS owner enjoy our donation money. So what you wrote about "They don't have the right to monetize blablabla" kinda HYPOCRITE, don't you think?

With the way you think about stuff, for some reason I can feel like you still a youngster with short fuse. I hope I am wrong because this game is kinda old, and is kinda rare to see youngster nowadays play it.

You keep going with your false equivalencies the logic will still not compute, people that play pirate servers aren't criminals, the people that PROVIDE the service and on top of that benefit economicaly from it aren't even criminals themselves, they ARE subject to legal action depending on the country but if you are equating this to an actual robbery and actual criminal acts that often are tied to violence then you are a retard.
Title: Re: Project Alfheim is p2w
Post by: Xaenor on Jan 12, 2023, 01:59 PM
Quote from: Kushiro on Jan 12, 2023, 01:38 AMso if you liked OriginsRO but detested the politically correct, passive agressive cowards that plagued that server, deranged leftists, well too bad because they are there, and they are still the same hypocrite scumbags that unless you are part of their sect they immediately jump all over you making fake accusations and passive agressive attacks to then call an administrator to ban you, you have to play by their rules type of sectarians

First of all, you are out of your goddamn mind. If someone in the main chat/Discord threatens violence, behaves like a bigot or suggests somebody else to harm themselves, they get rightfully muted or banned. That's not being deranged - that's normal.

Second, I've been playing Alfheim for a bit over a year now. Costumes are rewards for donations - and there are many people who donate, because a lot of them genuinely enjoy playing. I am not one of them, but I see the appeal of paying $5 a month to reward Charlie for his work and allow to pay for Ken's efforts.

That being said, good bloody luck selling any of the costumes you receive for donations - like I said, there are many supporters; they receive costumes every month; GMs often (multiple times a week) conduct server-wide events that award free costumes; sometimes, if you are lucky, you can even get a free costume as a gift or find one in one of the hidden treasure boxes around the world.

What I'm saying is that the server is saturated with costumes to the point that funding your character through selling them is, at best, a challenging endeavour. It has always been that way - even in the early months, people had a lot of trouble off-loading the costumes on the market, because they are just cosmetics and there is not a lot of demand for them.

If you actually tried to play and gave us data on how well the costumes sell, I could see your argument as being more valid. As of now, you simply sound upset over a (deserved) Discord ban where you spammed Olympic gifs in response to any counter-arguments from other players.
Title: Re: Project Alfheim is p2w
Post by: Nova on Jan 12, 2023, 02:17 PM
Little buddy, listen. You went to their website, you saw all the pink stuff with a fluffy cat and all the colours of the rainbow 🌈.  You saw their cash shop with tradeable donations, yet you still decide to go and play there when you don't like this stuff. And then you tell me that you don't like wasting time on a 1x server.

Little homie, are you okay? What are you doing? Just go do some pull-ups and reflect on your actions. Then when you get rid of your excess youthful energy and you head is clear again, come play Payon Stories. You'd be a perfect fit here.
Title: Re: Project Alfheim is p2w
Post by: Kushiro on Jan 12, 2023, 02:54 PM
Quote from: Xaenor on Jan 12, 2023, 01:59 PM
First of all, you are out of your goddamn mind. If someone in the main chat/Discord threatens violence, behaves like a bigot or suggests somebody else to harm themselves, they get rightfully muted or banned. That's not being deranged - that's normal.

Nice strawman and appeal to emotion.

QuoteSecond, I've been playing Alfheim for a bit over a year now. Costumes are rewards for donations - and there are many people who donate, because a lot of them genuinely enjoy playing. I am not one of them, but I see the appeal of paying $5 a month to reward Charlie for his work and allow to pay for Ken's efforts.

Another appeal to emotion.

QuoteThat being said, good bloody luck selling any of the costumes you receive for donations - like I said, there are many supporters; they receive costumes every month; GMs often (multiple times a week) conduct server-wide events that award free costumes; sometimes, if you are lucky, you can even get a free costume as a gift or find one in one of the hidden treasure boxes around the world.

What I'm saying is that the server is saturated with costumes to the point that funding your character through selling them is, at best, a challenging endeavour. It has always been that way - even in the early months, people had a lot of trouble off-loading the costumes on the market, because they are just cosmetics and there is not a lot of demand for them.

Nice downplaying and damage control.

QuoteIf you actually tried to play and gave us data on how well the costumes sell, I could see your argument as being more valid. As of now, you simply sound upset over a (deserved) Discord ban where you spammed Olympic gifs in response to any counter-arguments from other players.

(https://i.ibb.co/FxfC3CQ/template-mental-gymnastics-1993-0c6db91aec9c.jpg) (https://ibb.co/YRKwQw5)
Title: Re: Project Alfheim is p2w
Post by: Xellie on Jan 12, 2023, 07:31 PM
You posted so many gameplay exclusive event reward costumes, I feel like you didn't even play!

Anyway, need a hug?
Title: Re: Project Alfheim is p2w
Post by: iixe on Jan 12, 2023, 09:37 PM
I think that OP f*** is more mad then I am. And that means something.
Charlie created an enviroment that I've never seen before. A Fabre card costs more then a Diabolous Robe, which is usally barely affordable. Price points are shifted in way that basic gear can be collected within a few hours if you start with a 1/1 novice and have space to improve even after months of farming the same thing.

Also, p2w per definition describes a business model that forces you purchse a pool of items that are either unaccessible via f2p or having an item spiral that requires a progression rate that is very hard or sheer impossible to maintain without money. Mobile games often use this. The definition finds acceptance in most mmo comunities. Would be good to know what p2w means. Would make you look less stupid.

Ive seen alot of dumb things over the years but this thread is remarkable.
Title: Re: Project Alfheim is p2w
Post by: Sairek Ceareste on Jan 12, 2023, 11:41 PM
Quote from: Kushiro on Jan 12, 2023, 11:55 AM
Isn't that OathRo? the one that just destroyed all the people data and expects them to relevel from zero all over again?, I'm sorry but I don't trust my time to a server that has a history of just killing people time investment like that, besides its x1 server, not playing x1 server again period and precisely because all the x1 servers that have existed all have wasted the people time investment, all have closed or done crap s***, no thanks my time is valuable and a resource I can't get back.


I'd rather myself and the rest of OathRO staff not be associated with the actions of a single individual to which we had no say in.
"We" didn't do anything and were as much victims as the players were. "Oathkeeper" is the one who destroyed players' data.

The only thing the rest of OathRO staff are guilty of is trying to fix what damage Oathkeeper has done and making sure he doesn't get what he wanted. We don't expect everyone to restart, nor do they have to. We however have worked, and are continuing to work diligently that the option for people is there (which we are under no obligation to have to do, mind you). Having an option for people to choose from is better than no option at all in my opinion. It's the best we can do given the circumstances we were dealt.

Oathkeeper, who destroyed everyone's data and undermined all of staff's free labour is gone and is not a part of Payon Stories.



Quote from: iixe on Jan 12, 2023, 09:37 PM
I think that OP f*** is more mad then I am. And that means something.
Charlie created an enviroment that I've never seen before. A Fabre card costs more then a Diabolous Robe, which is usally barely affordable. Price points are shifted in way that basic gear can be collected within a few hours if you start with a 1/1 novice and have space to improve even after months of farming the same thing.

Also, p2w per definition describes a business model that forces you purchse a pool of items that are either unaccessible via f2p or having an item spiral that requires a progression rate that is very hard or sheer impossible to maintain without money. Mobile games often use this. The definition finds acceptance in most mmo comunities. Would be good to know what p2w means. Would make you look less stupid.

Ive seen alot of dumb things over the years but this thread is remarkable.


Isn't the definition of "p2w" described as an aspect of the game allows players to purchase in-game items to gain an advantage?

Because by the definition you provided, something like Diablo Immortal wouldn't be qualified as pay to win, despite the fact that if I swiped my credit card a few times, and you didn't, it would take you potentially decades (no exaggeration) to catch up to me and I would be stronger than you the entire time. Keep in mind that the game also has competitive PvP, so it's not just paying to dominate PvE.
There's also the problem that Diablo Immortal shames its F2P players, but that's another issue entirely.

In a game like Ragnarok Online, the ability to just add millions of total networth to your account instead of having to farm for it with just a few swipes of your credit card seems like an incredibly powerful ability in my eyes that not everyone has access to, but that's just my two cents.


Regardless, servers do need to pay their bills. I think OP would have done better just making a factual review and trying to put biases aside. Then people can just make the informed decision if they do or don't want to play there. Harping on this specific issue so aggressively just makes everything come off as disingenuous, even if it is true.
Title: Re: Project Alfheim is p2w
Post by: iixe on Jan 13, 2023, 12:11 AM
Quote from: Sairek Ceareste on Jan 12, 2023, 11:41 PM
Isn't the definition of "p2w" described as an aspect of the game allows players to purchase in-game items to gain an advantage?

Because by the definition you provided, something like Diablo Immortal wouldn't be qualified as pay to win, despite the fact that if I swiped my credit card a few times, and you didn't, it would take you potentially decades (no exaggeration) to catch up to me and I would be stronger than you the entire time. Keep in mind that the game also has competitive PvP, so it's not just paying to dominate PvE.
There's also the problem that Diablo Immortal shames its F2P players, but that's another issue entirely.
Wrong.
Diablo has set a requirement to max out gear that is technically impossible to reach as f2p even you would grind your entire life. That falls under already mentioned item spiral. In this case they just came up with it on start, not even an update is required anymore to make it worse. They went full ham from the very beginning.
It also falls under p2w because you get an advantage f2ps dont have (was higher rune chance or whatever). As 1:1 equivalent for that behavior in ro you would want to offer account bound bubble gums as exclusive item in the cash shop.

There definitely is an advantage. True non-p2w would be account bound/master account bound costumes. As someone already mentioned here, the market is saturated and competed.

I hope this clown show goes on for a while.
Title: Re: Project Alfheim is p2w
Post by: Kushiro on Jan 13, 2023, 12:16 AM
Quote from: Sairek Ceareste on Jan 12, 2023, 11:41 PM

I'd rather myself and the rest of OathRO staff not be associated with the actions of a single individual to which we had no say in.
"We" didn't do anything and were as much victims as the players were. "Oathkeeper" is the one who destroyed players' data.

The only thing the rest of OathRO staff are guilty of is trying to fix what damage Oathkeeper has done and making sure he doesn't get what he wanted. We don't expect everyone to restart, nor do they have to. We however have worked, and are continuing to work diligently that the option for people is there (which we are under no obligation to have to do, mind you). Having an option for people to choose from is better than no option at all in my opinion. It's the best we can do given the circumstances we were dealt.

Oathkeeper, who destroyed everyone's data and undermined all of staff's free labour is gone and is not a part of Payon Stories.




Isn't the definition of "p2w" described as an aspect of the game allows players to purchase in-game items to gain an advantage?

Because by the definition you provided, something like Diablo Immortal wouldn't be qualified as pay to win, despite the fact that if I swiped my credit card a few times, and you didn't, it would take you potentially decades (no exaggeration) to catch up to me and I would be stronger than you the entire time. Keep in mind that the game also has competitive PvP, so it's not just paying to dominate PvE.
There's also the problem that Diablo Immortal shames its F2P players, but that's another issue entirely.

In a game like Ragnarok Online, the ability to just add millions of total networth to your account instead of having to farm for it with just a few swipes of your credit card seems like an incredibly powerful ability in my eyes that not everyone has access to, but that's just my two cents.


Regardless, servers do need to pay their bills. I think OP would have done better just making a factual review and trying to put biases aside. Then people can just make the informed decision if they do or don't want to play there. Harping on this specific issue so aggressively just makes everything come off as disingenuous, even if it is true.

Hey dude, I hope you are doing ok, I'm sorry if I sounded like I dumped everyone on the same trash can, is just that making everyone start  from 0 even if it's not your fault at all it realy pisses me off, not saying this to lash on to you particularly or anything but farming on x1 is a nightmare and people do it because they think their time investment is protected and when they find it wasn't and not only that now they have to start over it really is a slap in the face, I personally wouldn't do it again, but I hope your server recovers and now you guys actually back up player data.

About my review I think it's fair, I did give credit to the server where it deserves and I really liked this server but that whole costume thing nah, that is blatant p2w is just dumb, the way I answer to the people that come and poke at me etc it's because either they blatantly lie to everybody, try to make excuses or outright insult me and attack me, I don't have to be respectful to liars, manipulators and people that attack me.
Title: Re: Project Alfheim is p2w
Post by: yC on Jan 13, 2023, 05:09 AM
Kushiro, you talk big but you are hiding under a disposable email address.  We do not allow users to hide under (potentially) different identity for obvious reasons.  It also means you reject all contact from our forum, then why you expect us to share your review with the communities?

Since you have an opinion to share, why don't you update your email address on the account to resolve that?  I'll give that 24 hours and if nothing is done I'll have no choice but to junk this topic.  You can use the forum function to update your email address on profile.

* This message is not delivered in pm for the reason that if the topic goes to the junk yard later, here is the reason *
Title: Re: Project Alfheim is p2w
Post by: Kushiro on Jan 13, 2023, 08:57 AM
Quote from: yC on Jan 13, 2023, 05:09 AM
Kushiro, you talk big but you are hiding under a disposable email address.  We do not allow users to hide under (potentially) different identity for obvious reasons.  It also means you reject all contact from our forum, then why you expect us to share your review with the communities?

Since you have an opinion to share, why don't you update your email address on the account to resolve that?  I'll give that 24 hours and if nothing is done I'll have no choice but to junk this topic.  You can use the forum function to update your email address on profile.

* This message is not delivered in pm for the reason that if the topic goes to the junk yard later, here is the reason *

Everyone has the right to remain anonimous if they want, you are too by "hiding" behind an online name and an avatar, you don't really have the right to have my personal data nor you are entitled to it.

I updated my e-mail adress to a non disposable one, the reason I do this is because I don't want my e-mail with tons of useless e-mails and potentially phishing or identity theft emails, if billion dollar companies "lose" e-mails and even passwords do you think I really trust any pserver or the rate my server website to just give my e-mail?, you talk as if i am commiting a crime for being careful to not give away my personal info on the net as if any of you don't do that too.

Are you being pressured by the server owner to delete my review? because maybe you should consider pressuring them just like you just did with me to actually put the truth on their adds because they only communicate that they have "ONLY COSMETIC CASH SHOP" to mislead the potential players into believing the server isn't p2w when in fact it is by allowing this costumes to be sold via zenny and that info is nowhere to be found.


EDIT

The edit I made was to bold out the part in which I said I complied to the demands of the staff, I didn't touched anything else, and I did this because the owner of the server I am exposing now is trying to pass this post as a "threat" when none of this is in fact a threat to anybody, this guy wants to get this review removed because it THREATENS his cashing in p2w costumes on his server and this should tell anybody that reads this how malicious this person is trying to stir things up when nothing I wrote here in this response to the staff is threatening or an intent to threat them in any way, I didn't tell them I was going to do anything bad to them or their website etc. I didn't say anything similar to anybody not even this person that is trying to stir up things where there aren't. Don't believe him, he obviously is desperate to take my review down and I can see this guy pressuring the staff to remove my review, don't fall for it.
Title: Re: Project Alfheim is p2w
Post by: Nova on Jan 13, 2023, 01:09 PM
You need to chill out. Other than decorating their server like a wedding cake, they haven't done anything wrong. You should have been here when Lord J was still around, then you would have seen how far people can really take it. Unless...
Title: Re: Project Alfheim is p2w
Post by: PriestsDontHeal on Jan 13, 2023, 01:10 PM
You have a lot of valid points that I'm pretty sure that if they were communicated by a different person could be taken seriously by a reasonable admin and considered to improve the server. But it is pretty clear that you are an insufferable human being and I understand why you were shunned by the community, I don't play Alfheim but ... good riddance everyone, I am honestly hoping that you don't end up in the server where I play.

You strike me as the guy that took a Logic 101 class ten years ago and thinks he is Mario Bunge ever since, a perfect depiction of the Dunning-Kruger bias.

Title: Re: Project Alfheim is p2w
Post by: Kushiro on Jan 13, 2023, 02:24 PM
Quote from: Nova on Jan 13, 2023, 01:09 PM
You need to chill out. Other than decorating their server like a wedding cake, they haven't done anything wrong. You should have been here when Lord J was still around, then you would have seen how far people can really take it. Unless...

Selling p2w costumes is very wrong to me.
Title: Re: Project Alfheim is p2w
Post by: Kushiro on Jan 13, 2023, 02:26 PM
Quote from: PriestsDontHeal on Jan 13, 2023, 01:10 PM
You have a lot of valid points that I'm pretty sure that if they were communicated by a different person could be taken seriously by a reasonable admin and considered to improve the server. But it is pretty clear that you are an insufferable human being and I understand why you were shunned by the community, I don't play Alfheim but ... good riddance everyone, I am honestly hoping that you don't end up in the server where I play.

You strike me as the guy that took a Logic 101 class ten years ago and thinks he is Mario Bunge ever since, a perfect depiction of the Dunning-Kruger bias.

I have valid points but you dislike I am using logic and reason? well you to me sound like one of those people that actually dislike logic and reason because they are perpetually offended by everything.
Title: Re: Project Alfheim is p2w
Post by: PriestsDontHeal on Jan 13, 2023, 05:05 PM
Quote from: Kushiro on Jan 13, 2023, 02:26 PM
I have valid points but you dislike I am using logic and reason? well you to me sound like one of those people that actually dislike logic and reason because they are perpetually offended by everything.

I am all for logic and reason, I dedicated my whole adult life to studying it, and I literally both teach it and apply it for a living.

I dislike the fact that you emptily throw the words "logic and reason" around just to think you are smarter than everyone when in reality your post was 20% valid points, 80% fallacies and cognitive biases, and 100% you being an obnoxious a******. Like I said, you are a perfect example of a Dunning-Kruger bias and as long as you don't learn how to better communicate with other human beings you will keep getting shunned by every community regardless of how smart you think you are (you are not). Anyone can take an "Introduction to Logic" class and start yelling the name of various fallacies onto people's faces, that doesn't make you a Logician or a Philosopher. People that actually know how to apply logic in their argumentation are usually able to pinpoint the biases in their own rethoric as well, not just in others', but you need something called intelectual honesty for that.

It is very clear that your opinions and the way you communicate them were not welcome neither in Alfheim nor here in this forum. Alfheim is a private server and they are welcome to do whatever the hell they want with it, you can't do anything about it. So why don't you "apply logic and reason" and move on now? I'm sure there's plenty of other servers that could use your brilliant "gigachad philosopher" input.


Title: Re: Project Alfheim is p2w
Post by: Kushiro on Jan 13, 2023, 06:55 PM
Quote from: PriestsDontHeal on Jan 13, 2023, 05:05 PM
I am all for logic and reason, I dedicated my whole adult life to studying it, and I literally both teach it and apply it for a living.

I dislike the fact that you emptily throw the words "logic and reason" around just to think you are smarter than everyone when in reality your post was 20% valid points, 80% fallacies and cognitive biases, and 100% you being an obnoxious a******. Like I said, you are a perfect example of a Dunning-Kruger bias and as long as you don't learn how to better communicate with other human beings you will keep getting shunned by every community regardless of how smart you think you are (you are not). Anyone can take an "Introduction to Logic" class and start yelling the name of various fallacies onto people's faces, that doesn't make you a Logician or a Philosopher. People that actually know how to apply logic in their argumentation are usually able to pinpoint the biases in their own rethoric as well, not just in others', but you need something called intelectual honesty for that.

It is very clear that your opinions and the way you communicate them were not welcome neither in Alfheim nor here in this forum. Alfheim is a private server and they are welcome to do whatever the hell they want with it, you can't do anything about it. So why don't you "apply logic and reason" and move on now? I'm sure there's plenty of other servers that could use your brilliant "gigachad philosopher" input.

So show me the fallacies I have incurred instead of insulting me Mr i teach "logic" instead of insulting me and incurring in adhominem attacks like the typical clown.

I'm pretty sure you will run like a coward from a straight debate with me because all you can do is attack me because you have 0 arguments whatsoever and yeah I am much better than you at this, and it is shown just by the fact that you have 0 arguments whatsoever that aren't adhominem or apeal to emotion crap.
Title: Re: Project Alfheim is p2w
Post by: Mammouth on Jan 14, 2023, 12:46 AM
What saddens me the most is to know that the emulators (Rathena and Hercules) do not receive any donation from the RO community, and this same community is in adoration for gms who do very little mod. The difference in work is not even comparable, we compare a beach with a grain of sand, and yet it is the grain of sand that collects the donations :(
Title: Re: Project Alfheim is p2w
Post by: rubie123 on Jan 14, 2023, 07:12 AM
A private server has to have a way to make an income, cuz It isn't easy or cheap to run a server. This isn't even a P2W server. Almost every server out there uses costumes as donations.
You just need to stop whining and find a server that doesn't have donations (good luck with that), or make your own server.
Title: Re: Project Alfheim is p2w
Post by: ForgotMyOldAccount on Jan 14, 2023, 09:28 AM
This seems like a fair review. A lot of RO servers claim not to be p2w and then fall into this trap of selling high-value, tradeable cosmetics. Tradeable being the keyword. I remember using similar tactics to make money in popular whale games like TERA so to see people claiming its NOT p2w because its a RO private server is a little funny.

They do have to make some revenue ultimately, but yes the way they choose to go about it is p2w. Is it a big revelation? Not really, other private servers do so enmasse.
Title: Re: Project Alfheim is p2w
Post by: leleonad on Jan 15, 2023, 06:04 AM
As someone who have been on multiple PS since years ago with all the drama, corrupt GM, p2w, p2w behind closed door, and just recently trying to get back to RO and found Project Alfheim (not even sure yet if I like it), all I can say is OP sounds butthurt. You can have your own argument, that's your right, but you don't have to pick a fight with the whole server for it. That's bad for the community overall, not just for this PS, having people like you...

Moreover, paying real money for getting benefits (zeny in your argument) which can be obtained by everyone simply by playing is not P2W lol..
Title: Re: Project Alfheim is p2w
Post by: tamukmol on Jan 15, 2023, 06:18 PM
technically he is correct, in terms of cash shop items can be directly sold for zeny to other players. but in the spectrum of "p2w" this should not be the hill youre willing to die on. there are servers that are far, far more pay to win than this. and it begs the question why you would "review" this server as an example of p2w when theres a lot more better example. yep, sounds like you are butthurt.

cosmetics only cash shop = pay to win -said no one ever /heh
Title: Re: Project Alfheim is p2w
Post by: Malaphar on Jan 15, 2023, 09:53 PM
FFS there are servers that allow RMT so this is by far not a "pay to win" thing but more so a way to skip farming to some extents ... BUT you do still need a buyer for those items
Title: Re: Project Alfheim is p2w
Post by: Deer on Feb 19, 2023, 02:22 PM
I didn't read all of the posts, just main post, but I registered here because I want to talk about two images posted by OP and give my opinion about the server.

The first pic I want to talk about (discord message by "Deer") is mine. I didn't sell any of those costumes, despite trying, so even if I had them, I got no zeny for them. ALSO, I didn't pay real money to get them, so it's not an argument to say the server is p2w, because no real money payment was made, and even if it did, no zeny or advantages that can be considered "win" existed.

The second pic (message by "Sing"), is also me, but before I changed my profile on Alf's discord. I was just asking how to search for costumes with the command to find who sells things. Two considerations about that on: a) I couldn't find the costume because I was looking with the wrong name; b) the @ws fail happens even if you look for the correct things, because there's a cooldown time between searches. That message had no relation to paying or winning whatsoever.

Now my opinion about the server, since I have both donated AND bought donation things with zeny: I don't see how aesthetic items, even if you obtain them by paying real money, contribute to winning, other than relatively mild zeny amount you can get. From what I see recently, items worth around 5-6 USD in Cash Shop may vary from 1m to 3m zeny. I farmed one full day in Skel Workers and got almost 17m by selling cards, just to compare. So I don't see how one could simply go and pay to win, because PLAYING clearly leads to a lot more win than PAYING.

About the changes, I honestly don't see any that makes the game worse than it is in classic. What's buffed needed buffs and what's nerfed needed nerfs (especially prices of dropped gear that lead to huge inflation, and were very well adjsted). And I'm all for changing TKM btw (something that is planned iirc). The custom dungeons add things the game desperately needed: good places to level up as some classes that were usually leeched, or better endgame experience. Even at rates 3x with occasional event boosts to 6x, it feels way better to level up than rates 5x that occasionally float up to 8x (yes, I'm comparing with ORO). About random options in gear, it DOES add more RNG, obviously. However, it also makes a lot of things that would be very expensive quite accessible, because the value is shifted towards gear with better rolls, so if you want to be casual, you can still enjoy good gear, but with less optimal options. I don't see how that makes things worse, unless you're extremely picky with wanting the best of the best gear... for which case you can't get it by paying.
Title: Re: Project Alfheim is p2w
Post by: sagui00 on Feb 23, 2023, 10:07 AM
This is some massive s*** i`ve read there. Dude`s butthurt and trying desperately to badmouth the server.   

I`ve donated to them just because its a truly F2P server that must be supported. Honestly, the cash shop was of 0 interest to me, I wish there was more options at the cash shop tbh. 

Ended up with a bunch of costume bs that will sit forever at my storage.
Title: Re: Project Alfheim is p2w
Post by: hellrulez on Aug 23, 2023, 08:37 PM
I made an account just to say that OP is right. I had played for a few months in the Project Alfheim server, and he's totally right in all points. The OP just need to learn how to communicate better(positive feedback).

That's all, thanks and have a good day everyone /no1
Title: Re: Project Alfheim is p2w
Post by: 2k2 on Aug 23, 2023, 10:10 PM
It's not relevant if this is the correct application of the term "P2W". The only relevant part OP tried to pass is how no server can claim they're "F2P" (again: not being F2P doesn't mean it's P2W) while allowing players to directly exchange real currency to in-game zeny through any means.

Yes, we know RMT exists in every server, but this one here is essentially the same as RMT, just a legalized (by the server) RMT.

Which means it can't claim it's F2P.

Quote from: Nova on Jan 12, 2023, 09:24 AMAlfheimRO is so pink and bubbly, when I entered their website and discord, it felt a bit like walking into the bedroom of a very girly teenage girl again, but without the excitement and anticipation. It was like I walked into a house made of pink bubblegum. It was so forcefully sweet, pink and bubbly wubbly that I turned 360 and just got out of there pretty much instantly without even trying the server out.

Lmao laughed way too hard reading this (felt a bit bad too as this is kind of mean, if you get me LOL) but it's a reality of 99% of RO servers these days, and especially since last year/Gravity's stuff.

Quote from: Mammouth on Jan 14, 2023, 12:46 AMWhat saddens me the most is to know that the emulators (Rathena and Hercules) do not receive any donation from the RO community, and this same community is in adoration for gms who do very little mod. The difference in work is not even comparable, we compare a beach with a grain of sand, and yet it is the grain of sand that collects the donations :(

Fully agree. Wish this wasn't a reality. Most of us, the players, have our priorities pretty f*** up, especially when supporting s*** corrupt and greedy Admins/GMs. Main reason It's nearly impossible to decently play RO these days, as in the past 10 years (even worse after Gravity's offensive started) or so, as there's basically no decent, stable and fully f2p server around. Only joke servers running right now and trying to stay low to avoid getting attention from Gravity, as if this would help them at all lol.

To me, the way to support their work is by playing their server, and that's why I played that huge fully f2p server created and ran by the top contributors in Hercules. Been playing since the game was released, played dozens of private servers (many of the biggest ones), 5 different officials, yet no server ever came any close to that one. Still waiting for the server's return and will continue to do so, even if the server never comes back. I refuse to play clown servers.

Also never play or support servers ran by corrupt greedy pigs running to make money only. The kind of server that sh*ts on their own community, such as Talon.
Title: Re: Project Alfheim is p2w
Post by: Legacy Of Nightwind on Aug 24, 2023, 09:16 PM
Yea so after reading through this, you do realise people have been buying and selling items, currency and even leveling services for real money as long as gaming in a multiplayer enviroment has existed ? Hell even back in the IRO days of 2004, a friend of mine sold his Phreeoni card for thousands of euros so..

P2w is and has always been on online gaming, and will always be as there will always be people with a lot of money and no time and people with a lot of time on their hands and willing to "work" for the money, its just Supply and Demand, a server offering Costumes is less p2w than officials by far who offers real gear in the cash shop or even bloody branches and CARD, on some official servers you can buy MVP cards from the store.

Anyway Long story short, you have the right to your opinion but id advice you to think more about what you're saying, and no i dont play on their server nor have i ever.