Legacy of Nightwind Honest Review (Great start with a sad ending)

Started by Hexia, Jun 02, 2024, 09:48 AM

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Hexia

Hey everyone. I have been a LoN player since its beginning, making this post saddens me as this server had one of the most promising futures for a low rate with huge population support.

This renewal server had one of the best starts I could've ever seen for a private server, with many players excited to try it out. Sadly, so many bad unplanned decisions pushed 75% of the population away. Even the most loyal players ended up quitting because they were not heard. The Developer never listened and went with all the possible wrong changes, pretty much laughing at the veteran's time and donation spent. The server hasn't had any meaningful content or development in the past 4-5 months, as it seems playing Diablo 2 is more important than being accountable to each player's trust.  To mention some of the issues being faced:

-    Road map went from specific deadlines and goals to unplanned and not defined updates.


-    There is no point in min-maxing as you will constantly be getting random and out of nowhere changes in damage formulas, nerfs, and ¨balancing¨ so any hard work will feel lost. These changes are never properly tested by the developer and most of them come out of random discussions in his stream instead of deep testing, this has become an endless loop through these last months.


-    Episodes being added incompletely and not being addressed for months even after several requests by the players.


-    Dev - time being placed in nonsense stuff instead of bug–fixing and content development.


-    Maintenances stopped being regular



This server has great QoL features, and you are likely to enjoy the journey until you hit level 200. But after that, you will feel like the time spent there was just not worth it as the experience of the players having reached there isn't taken into account, enhanced, or taken care of.

I'm concerned about all the newer players that have been joining recently, I would politely suggest you re-consider starting your RO journey in this server or spending time/donations in the meantime as it seems like even at this state there isn't any foreseeable plan to solve any of the issues the server is having.

Legacy Of Nightwind

Right so let me just start of with saying that im really sorry you feel this way and i'd like to adress the issues you've brought up

- Maintenances being re-scheduled is mostly due to my overall health, which lately ive had quite a few real life health issues (which honestly is something that happens to us all, is it not?)

- Road Map was changed for the same reason as above, Health reasons  and the Stress it was adding to me

- Dev time not being put into meaningful things? Right okay so let me break it down here a bit, The majority of players are between 1-200, meaning they are not 200+, out of the 400-600 Unique IP's connected weekly, a very small % is actually 200+, the few people who chew through the game due to playing such a massive amount, i can never develop at this pace as a single developer who's still learning

- Episodes not being "fixed " bounces back to my health issues and being a single developer.

- You're claiming i dont listen? yet i make polls about basically every meaningful change to gauge player feedback and host Development streams where we discuss things that might be good / bad for the server's longevity.

- Saying that i "Play Diablo 2" instead of developing is absolute nonsense, i did start playing it a bit to have some contrast to developing 24/7 as this is a long-term project for me, i cant do 12+ hours a day 7 days a week, 365 days a year, its just not possible for my mental health.

- Pushing 75% of the playerbase away? im sorry but you're making up numbers and giving false information

- "No meaningful content for 5-6 months" ? this is a blatant lie, meaningful might be for YOU but we've had SO many updates to various systems AND new content for both pre 200 and post.

- All in all, you can never please everyone and im sorry that you feel that you werent heard and i did not respect your time and donations, i assure you i have every intent on listening to the playerbase, HOWEVER you need to understand that listening does not mean that you will get what YOU want if it goes against the Vision of the Server or the Majority of the playerbase's Wishes either.

Edit: Making an honest post under a name that nobody on the server has ever heard of seems a bit strange, if you're trying to show credit and being a "long term player"  and seemingly not even knowing the name of the server for someone who has been playing since the start?

Sincerely, Nina.

Hexia

It's lovely how you only look at IPs instead of getting into the game and looking at the state of it. It's so easy to see how empty the game feels and you'd see the same 10 people around with different alts. Probably most of these IPs are one-time-only players. This statement is nonsense, there is no way you even have 20-30 players playing at the same time.

Thanks for validating my point that most players playing are under 200. Have you ever wondered why? Probably because most above that have left the game by now.

Oh about the dev streams, I guess you refer to the ones we have barely once every month or so?

Polls about basically every meaningful change and meaningful development. Right, I like the poll about removing the mount of DK and still being able to use Dragon Breath skills, I can see how meaningful that is, not like we have missing instances and a lot of bug fixing to do.

Honestly, the first step to address a problem is understanding there is one, which isn't the case here.

Legacy Of Nightwind

Quote from: Hexia on Jun 02, 2024, 10:30 AMIt's lovely how you only look at IPs instead of getting into the game and looking at the state of it. It's so easy to see how empty the game feels and you'd see the same 10 people around with different alts. Probably most of these IPs are one-time-only players. This statement is nonsense, there is no way you even have 20-30 players playing at the same time.

Thanks for validating my point that most players playing are under 200. Have you ever wondered why? Probably because most above that have left the game by now.

Oh about the dev streams, I guess you refer to the ones we have barely once every month or so?

Polls about basically every meaningful change and meaningful development. Right, I like the poll about removing the mount of DK and still being able to use Dragon Breath skills, I can see how meaningful that is, not like we have missing instances and a lot of bug fixing to do.

Honestly, the first step to address a problem is understanding there is one, which isn't the case here.


If you want to have any credibility to your post, please provide proper information such as the "polls" you mention 1 poll i did just what a day or two ago for fun compared to the other 20-30+ polls that have effect on gameplay overall?
If you want to have a proper discussion regarding issues you think the server has, start by talking to us/me in discord , making a post on RMS under a random name nobody has ever heard of, looks a lot like toxic behaviour honestly.

yC

To be fair, most servers out there are playable for free.  So saying the server owner or devs doing other things rather than developing the game is rather demanding.  We have to understand that they don't owe the player anything.

Do remember server staff also are human, they are not generative AI that write code and response to requests 24/7.  They also have a life, maybe a job or a family to take care of.

Your priority of the server might be different than the priority the server staff is aiming, in which case that will frustrate you as a player.  However, that is out of your control.  You can make suggestion and constructive criticism but do not expect your suggestion to become the top priority. 

I mean, you wouldn't be the only player that give suggestions right?  So just relax and let the server sort things out if you feel you can bear with the team.

The last thing I want to see is server with great potential have to close due to pressure from working on the server. @ hope everyone see this

mrfizi

Quote from: yC on Jun 02, 2024, 12:57 PMDo remember server staff also are human, they are not generative AI that write code and response to requests 24/7.  They also have a life, maybe a job or a family to take care of.
Yes! Agreed with that. Everyone should tolerate with this.

Quote from: yC on Jun 02, 2024, 12:57 PMYou can make suggestion and constructive criticism but do not expect your suggestion to become the top priority. 
Most player nowadays always want owner of the server or developer to follow their request/suggestion 100%. If not, they will try to ruins the server until the owner/dev follow what they want. But lastly they will leave the server and repeat the same thing on other server.  /hmm  /heh


I think everyone should read this topic https://forum.ratemyserver.net/server-discussion/things-everybody-else-wants-in-ro-except-you/msg173305/#msg173305 by Playtester to understand.
A person who loves the classic and pre-renewal closed-to-official server experience.
Classic mRO 1x/1x/1x - Classic server Episode 6. Using latest rAthena emulator without modifications.

luminous_effect

Quote from: yC on Jun 02, 2024, 12:57 PMTo be fair, most servers out there are playable for free.  So saying the server owner or devs doing other things rather than developing the game is rather demanding.  We have to understand that they don't owe the player anything.

Do remember server staff also are human, they are not generative AI that write code and response to requests 24/7.  They also have a life, maybe a job or a family to take care of.

Your priority of the server might be different than the priority the server staff is aiming, in which case that will frustrate you as a player.  However, that is out of your control.  You can make suggestion and constructive criticism but do not expect your suggestion to become the top priority. 

I mean, you wouldn't be the only player that give suggestions right?  So just relax and let the server sort things out if you feel you can bear with the team.

The last thing I want to see is server with great potential have to close due to pressure from working on the server. @ hope everyone see this

Yes, that is out of the player's control, HOWEVER, you'll have to be the player in that server to understand the topic starter's viewpoint. I was also a player there, had great potential sure, but first thing is that the administrator sometimes DOES NOT acknowledge that there is a problem, and when it was acknowledged, it's for the wrong priority.

Gotta remember too that a Ragnarok Server should be fun yes? What if almost 75% of the players that got into a point where the topic starter was has the same feelings about it? (like I did too)

There's a ton more to say:
- Have an MVP card dropped? Cool! It is a non-reworked version, and you'd be lucky to get it reworked by 2030. So you're stuck on a useless item, fun in getting the drop is gone and non-existent (but the promise of getting it reworked 'in the future').
- Got the gear you worked hard for after that blood, sweat, and little time you got? Cool! Here's a nerf.
- Got that 400m damage you sacrificed your only time on to achieve? COOL! Here's a nerf by half, enjoy!
- Did you got responded with "WoE/PvP in the future", COOL! on 2045 by how things are going!
- Saw a response like "Crystal Palace", "200+ content", "in the future"? COOL! Year 2055!
- Got a cool feature in the server? "Oh no! It's a mistake that it's there, seems like I did not forsee this, gotta take this out", while some players are brainstorming for an alternative solution other than taking the good feature out.

SURE, the server was great, saw its potential, but the potential is ONLY AS GOOD AS A NON-REALIZED IDEA and is as good as a dream, if content can't be delivered, "as promised 23439485934 times already" by the dear admin of the server.

So please let's not invalidate the POV of players who wasted so many time on that already and is now just breaking out their frustrations. We only got "sorry that you don't like the updates" and "will be doing better" (as seen in the response here too) but there ARE STILL NO ACTIONS relating to the issues raised by the "players", privately, or publicly.

luminous_effect

Quote from: Legacy Of Nightwind on Jun 02, 2024, 10:36 AMIf you want to have any credibility to your post, please provide proper information such as the "polls" you mention 1 poll i did just what a day or two ago for fun compared to the other 20-30+ polls that have effect on gameplay overall?
If you want to have a proper discussion regarding issues you think the server has, start by talking to us/me in discord , making a post on RMS under a random name nobody has ever heard of, looks a lot like toxic behaviour honestly.

And to you, our dear server admin, "the players" already raised concerns, I think some already talked to you privately too, what did they get exactly? Absolutely nothing tangible, after how many months/weeks too.

Stop making your Ragnarok private server a source of "validation" for you to feel good about yourself, from your pool of "good people in the discord/game server" who are, what term is it? oh! they're "donkey-kissers".

It started out great sure, but now? Meh.

P.S. Stop gaslighting some players, you gaslight them and you don't even know it, or knowingly very elite in doing it.

luminous_effect

hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

NOTE: If new people playing your server has been saying the same thing as we do, MAYBE IT'S TIME TO EVALUATE YOUR LIFE CHOICES.

"This is why im not a big fan of nerfs. If youre going to nerf something, you gotta compensate somewhere else."

https://imgur.com/a/zbeIOez
https://imgur.com/yWwHUW0

@legacyofnightwind, again, stop gaslighting your players LMFAO

Azen

I'd like to chime in as a relatively new player on this server. I am not the most knowledgeable about the game, but I have significant experience playing various iterations of RO, WoW, GW2, LoL, and other MMOs.

There are no renewal servers, official or otherwise, that are balanced. They also have a lot of weird OP gear that doesn't fit into any theme but gives your character huge increases in power.

What development do you see on official servers? Mostly new gacha gear every month. Occasional content updates every 6+ months and it might take a year or two to see any real changes or fresh content.

In terms of Renewal private servers, you either see highly customized stuff that isn't for everyone, or just traditional renewal content which IS overpowered, imbalanced, and has lost control over proper MMO elements like a healthy leveling process, well timed power spikes, and a combination of relatively accessible gear with enjoyable power spikes as well as difficult to obtain gear with huge power spikes.

There is an unfortunate truth here about the vast majority of RO players. This game tends to attract either

a) Pre-renewal biased players, who refuse to even think about or mock renewal. They like to hop servers a lot because there is very limited content that they have been playing for decades.
b) Renewal players who are the opposite of pre-renewal players, who are addicted to massive damage numbers and feeling overpowered. The vast amounts of zeny obtainable in this game also have people who like to "feel rich" in a social environment.
c) Always attracts and is designed for a heavy grind.

They typically want:

a) To zip through content asap and feel like "kingpins" when they have extremely powerful gear and are rolling in billions of zeny.
b) To see huge damage numbers and a min-max "most efficient" playstyle

This leaves Ragnarok Online in a loop. It's just the same min-max power play. People who power grind many hours a day feel an extensive and suffocating need to be as efficient as possible because of the truly low rate of drops and heavy RNG related with acquiring some powerful gear and items as well as their dependence on scoring such items to make large chunks of money really quick (which is another thing RO players have kind of become addicted to.)

Now if you compare it with other leading western MMOs like WoW and Guild Wars, the developers release fresh content much more frequently.

The combat mechanics are much deeper (equipment aside) and there is much, much higher skill ceiling.

People are happy playing these MMOs because they are rewarding in multiple ways more than traditional RO.

a) The leveling process is slower and much less grindy.
b) The lore/stories/questing system are far more enjoyable.
c) Item power spikes require time and effort, not just RNG.
d) They are much more balanced and don't cater to damage number addicts.
e) They can keep improving in skill, both pve and pvp, for years more than it takes to mostly master a job and playstyle in RO.

So what I have seen on this server, and the admin's choices and mindset, is that she is remaking renewal RO in a way that is breaking through the long unescaped loop and bounds of traditional Ragnarok.

I am really happy with this, as I like the game for many reasons.

a) Constant skill changes encourages changing playstyles. Why would anyone really want the same builds to be viable forever? There should be variety in an MMO for a richer experience.
b)Gear of all kinds with a similar tier of impact are obtainable with a quite excellent effort/reward ratio. Adventurer's coins till 99 often provide excellent gear for just 1 coin per box. And you always have an appropriate amount of coins to gamble for what you need. OPBs from a variety of sources don't contain crap anymore, but better gear than adventurer's coins. The cost/reward ration is excellent on these for what they offer and where in your journey you are at. Then Mora sets give a needed power spike without too much effort. and so on. All the gear is custom designed but feels really intelligent. Sets stitch together really well and offer a great combination of defense and offense, as well as the ability to improve them through easily accessible refines and enchant reroll orbs.
c) Monster scaling and def/mdef has also been very thoughtfully designed and is more interesting than on uncustomized.

The experience I have with this server, especially many of the QOL buffs that make so much sense one wonders if Gravity even puts any thought into their product any longer, is that it is a much richer and relaxed RO experience than normal renewal mechanics. It encourages longer term, relaxed commitment, exploration, interaction, and so on.

It feels very polished compared to even official servers. Most of the development thought and efforts go into maintaining a cohesive and richer experience than what traditional RO offers. And there is significant and highly intelligent and accurate thought in terms of the long term vision. This server changes the RO experience from a grindfest and an "i dream of riches" mindset that has become synonymous with the game. It is paced, intense yet relaxed, and very well thought out, right down to almost every card at this point.

Regardless of whatever update frequency or playerbase issues there might be, it might be worth a look if such a vision for a RO server even matches your expectations from this game in general.

Because with a single admin there will be human limits to how it develops, and within those limits she is doing a stupendous job of recreating renewal ragnarok into something that goes beyond the limited and traditional experience of the game, namely heavy RNG related dopamine rush and "rushing to the top and joining the elite".

Not sure why there are not more players 1 year in, tbh, maybe its just unexpected what people are getting instead of what they expect, or the well designed experience that is not about addiction, power, and excessive grinding touches a sensitive nerve. It might just be a marketing/advertising thing, people just don't know what is really different about it, and might be a self awareness thing. Not recognizing why despite loving RO, in all iterations and servers, theres just something "lacking."

This is a richer game, and about long term enjoyment, not about what addicts most RO players, and nor is it even about long term "investment" or long term "commitment."

Most players I have seen of this game treat it like a job. Its bad for mental health and really not an enriching experience.

My 0.02

Hawkatoodledo

Quote from: luminous_effect on Jul 12, 2024, 05:20 AMhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

NOTE: If new people playing your server has been saying the same thing as we do, MAYBE IT'S TIME TO EVALUATE YOUR LIFE CHOICES.

"This is why im not a big fan of nerfs. If youre going to nerf something, you gotta compensate somewhere else."

https://imgur.com/a/zbeIOez
https://imgur.com/yWwHUW0

@legacyofnightwind, again, stop gaslighting your players LMFAO
^^The GM would rather nerf lots of stuff because the server should be low rate and "I'm doing this for the future of the server" (the server isn't getting any closer to the future since it's been months and we are still pending on valor reworks <- roadmap not moving). Add a new cursor before even working on things listed in the roadmap and actual issues like adding skill copier for 3rd and 4th jobs, shadow gear not working as intended, broken cards, etc. Can't count the times the GM said new content is "around the corner", I'm starting to think the server is round since we aren't getting any closer to that corner of new content kek

The OCA drop rate nerf is bad too since the GM said people were getting "too many OCAs and rerolls shouldn't be the go-to way of getting enchants you want", without even providing any context or numbers to support her claim. Getting OCAs was the consolation prize for running madness/et/overworld boss hunting but get s*** on boi, server is being too easy.

Also not much of a listener when you point out issues with the game and not take any action to get it fixed. One piece of evidence isn't enough for her and she'll say she was helping without even offering a solution lmao.

Special mention to the yes-men who also don't think for themselves and just like to pat each other's back so they feel good about each other. Good luck in getting anything done with the roadmap you've been promising for months. Good work with the big patch where you didn't work on the roadmap but instead made SP costs higher for 4th job skills.

P.S. stop blaming the release of Elden Ring DLC and FF14 expansion on the low number of players. Still the same number of people playing before, during, and after those games released new content.

yC

luminous_effect you are getting a mute and some posts deleted because you are making assumption for others, putting down other people's opinion with pure speculation or simply repeating what was already said which adds no value.  Not to mention the triple posting to bump the topic.

At this point, I am only seeing you are in a "watch how this server die because gm not listen" mode.  Your posts are turning troll-ish and you want to watch the server die to make a point.  Let me remind you that you don't have to watch it, why not let yourself go and move on.

I'll emphasis this again: You are not the boss, you are not a customer.  You are one of many players or testers of a project.  The server will operate fine with or without you.

QuoteStop making your Ragnarok private server a source of "validation" for you to feel good about yourself

Well, why not?  It is his/her server.  Who are we to say what it can't be?
There are servers / server owners out there that want to work on their own project, at their own paces.  You don't have to like what they do, you only have to choose between play or not play.

Yes it feels bad when you wasted your time to farm stuff and then get nerfed.  Like the official server, it is up to the developers to do what they think is best for the game. 

After a month and a half, if you are still not happy with the progress of the server you should simply find another server.  It is obvious that what you are looking for is not in this server.  Neither the server features nor the staff team meets your expectation. 

The only way for you to get every feature you want is to build your own server, be your own boss so you don't have to constantly complain what's missing and what need to be done.  Take it to your own hands.


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