Server culture

[Yuzo]

I've started this topic so people can share their stories/experiences on server's they've been involved in. I'm here to talk about server culture, the general mentality of the players. What types of server cultures have you been involved in? Positive experiences? Negative experiences?

Now, we all know the classic 'toxic woe guild' environment which has plagued many servers. Guilds would join a server, while there woe would blossom, but the community would turn nasty, the guild would leave the server after a while and leave behind a big dent. Despite the liveliness they brought, more damage was caused in the long-run. This is just a quick example to get people on board with the whole culture thing.
(intro over)

The story I want to share is about the server I'm currently playing. It has become infested with cheaters (no delay to be exact), and for 'reasons' it can't be stopped (other than banning blatant users). By infested, I mean the players holding the most power - the guilds, pvpers and most popular players (that's all that's left here) - are mostly cheaters or associated with them.

One of the GMs a while back did a mass banning due to players using it during an event (that kinda goes without saying). After this, the majority stopped taking part in daily activities, such as pvp and battlegrounds, out of fear of being banned. Said GM becomes public enemy #1, but really its not their fault.

Now the server is veeerrry quiet. I'd say 20-30% population decrease (on an already smallish number) with morale low. Someone even made a forum topic telling that gm to quit, "we all hate you". The server is sort of at a stand-still, people don't really know what to do.

The thought-provoking questions:
• How do you weigh up player welfare versus the server's rules?
•If the server died due to too many players being banned, did the staff make the right call?
•Is hastening the process really a bad thing? Did the server deserve to live in that state?
•If "everybody" is cheating, is it right?
•By "allowing" cheating to happen, does it do either of the following? - A. Hold the current player base, B. Prevent future growth.
•Has this server run it's course, or should the staff and players band together and try their best?

What do you guys have to say about this situation? Share your own stories too.

[Nebraskka]

Thank you for pointing out this topic.
Our server suffered from it previously too.

I don't know, why most players think it's OK.
Or don't think about it at all, and take it as it is.

[diememory]

Im pretty sure you are talking about the server where I play too. First I'm gonna tell what I think about the scenario why we had a sudden population drop.

Recall an earlier pvp event we had, there were at least 2 GMs facilitating the event, one participant there used what we can sit-heal spam. It includes heal-sit-sit-heal. This player is living very near where the server is at, therefore ping is extremely low, but being able to press the shortcut key->click->sit->sit->shortcut key->click (6 buttons) consistently without fail and almost perfect intervals, very fast, if I am to judge, I'd say he is using a 3rd party program. Yet this cannot go without saying, maybe he is not. The player obviously was not accused of using any 3rd party program. In fact he was the winner of that event. Another is a ninja participant, we all know that hide->shadow jump has delay before actually jumping, but in this ninja's first rounds, he hide-jump without delay yet he moves freely in the server.

The problem is that there is no system or whatsoever that detects that cheat in our server. Therefore banning all those accounts were all based on pure judgement of the authorities. Don't get me wrong, its true that its obvious when you see someone using that "no delay" but still it does not remove the fact that it is based on pure judgement.

The GM holding an event and banning all those who participated that are suspected of using cheat, created a mentality within players that events are traps.

Last three paragraphs created the "BIASED GMs" theory of players. Players started to question, why ban all of a sudden on this particular event? why no banning happened on the earlier event? are rules only applied now and not before? why gms are biased?

If I am asked, both the players and the GMs are responsible to this scenario. Both possess their own portion of responsibility. And clearly the two parties have faults on their own creating the culture we have now.

[diememory]

My thought on your questions:

• How do you weigh up player welfare versus the server's rules?

Server rules exist even before the account of these players. There is also an agreement (i bet 99.99% of the players did not read it, well me too) that we should abide etc etc. Also I am sure that rules are made for the welfare of everyone. It just really boils down to how it is enforced.

•If the server died due to too many players being banned, did the staff make the right call?

The staffs priority of course is the server's survival. Really no sense banning if server will die. Sure enough there are other ways to enforce the rules without killing the server (like instead of banning, improving the security system of the server)

•Is hastening the process really a bad thing?

Sorry, hastening the process of what? Sorry did not get it.

•Did the server deserve to live in that state?

I hate to say yes but it is clearly made by the action of everyone. So yes.
I do hope though that the server go over with that and it may serve a lesson to everyone.

•If "everybody" is cheating, is it right?

In the eyes of equality no problem.
BUT, it will never be right. Game would never be played the way its meant to be played.

•By "allowing" cheating to happen, does it do either of the following?

The fact that the server is infested now by cheaters, and they are still roaming around freely, unless almost all get banned then I say A. Hold the current player base while B. Preventing Future growth. so both. Then slowly C. Kill the server.

•Has this server run it's course, or should the staff and players band together and try their best?

Always try the best. Its not the end until its end.

[Minabe]

Doing Tripper's job.

[Tensei]

•If the server died due to too many players being banned, did the staff make the right call?
Sounds like the server is already dead, no point continuing a failed project imo, however as long as you don't go Cookie retard (saying he doesn't care about banning everyone, then erasing a post quoting him for that 2 weeks later) there are other ways to deal with a toxic population.

•Is hastening the process really a bad thing? Did the server deserve to live in that state?
Kind of like the question before, no point in continuing a failed project but as long as there's ppl willing to go the extra mile you can always guide them.

•If "everybody" is cheating, is it right?
No it isn't, even if you say "everybody" it won't be literall and as such you will have those who abandon bc of it, eventually you end up with only the cheaters and a dying server.

•By "allowing" cheating to happen, does it do either of the following? - A. Hold the current player base, B. Prevent future growth.
Again two questions with a lot of the same background. In the case of A) why would you want a toxic current base? it's obvious it'll make B) happen, there's no way to grow when the only real way to do so ingame is by using 3rd party tools (not an ingame thing). And just like your toxic guild example, when ppl leave you'll end up with a void that can't be filled bc of how your community was stablished (a cheaters community).

•Has this server run it's course, or should the staff and players band together and try their best?
Both can be done, if the staff really wants to keep it's playerbase they'd need to implement a system that gradually cuts cheaters off, however it would need to be slow since the community seems to be well stablished around cheats. The simplest way is to make an announcement about new changes (while adding an anticheat feature), putting all your cards on the table and trying not to stray from it as much as you can bc inconsistency only reflects how bad prepared things were which will ultimately reflect on the trust of your playerbase.

All those points are spot on.

+1

[Yuzo]

If I am asked, both the players and the GMs are responsible to this scenario. Both possess their own portion of responsibility. And clearly the two parties have faults on their own creating the culture we have now.

Thanks for the replies guys, you make good points. I think this one sums up the server too well. Too long players got away with it, then this new GM comes in and actually starts enforcing the rules.

[Nebraskka]

Thanks for the replies guys, you make good points. I think this one sums up the server too well. Too long players got away with it, then this new GM comes in and actually starts enforcing the rules.

As I saw previously, players who can't enjoy game without this kind of s*** would still do some toxic activity anyway, even if there're some rules or not. They just can't play other way.

[Blinzer]

nodelay actually balances the game out for a lot of classes which are under par if obstructed with their stupid animation delays. although i don't see how this would be a problem for players of RO nowadays, considering they are nowhere close to touching the potential of what is capable in the pvp scenario. they're probably using it to make up for skill they don't have.

[annaquin]

diememory:

Server rules are crap... and far from been an agreement. Otherwise players would sue a GM for lack of services and that's far from been the case. You usually get banned for no real reason but on unclear concept of hack/Cheat/unfair/exploit or whatever.

From the very beginning, private server are a scam and running a server is violating 10 laws and copyrights at least. Emulators are fine, as long as they aren't reverse engeneering protocoles that is considered a design and then protected by copyrights.

Except for developpers of rathena, jra, ethena, hercules, etc... all the rest are just exploiting the works of others by running a server they could otherwise never made themselves. Not only that, they requestes so much simplification and automation that today running a server is a matter of hours of setup if not minutes.

So when you start to run a server, GM should be thankfull players are trying, staying and enjoying, but there isn't much merit for the GM , more about gravity that created a generic gameplay easily customisable.
The second reason banning is bad, is to consider the community as your own . That's stupid, a community is self owned and don't have any subordination nor rules to be applied on. You run the server because of the community, but community has no gain to please you.

Large guild moving or jumping, usually it take times for a guild leader or few members to hold a community, but that's a lot of works, and usually most server owner fail to reward those kind of leaders. Dragging a community take much more effort than simply coding around a corner , because it is a memory challenges and time consuming.

Now for hacking ...
Except mister ramod that will hack your server to get paid... most of coders can't hack what they want. I know eathena by heart, rathena almost the same and the network code of hercules. All coders know it. So hackers aren't usually coders. They are bug exploit farmer or lazy jackass. And hackers have very low capabilities in coding usually and very specialized in protocol coding. But back to subject...

For a private server, that receive daily packet without any kind of TLS1.2 and only protected with half assed bind variable for SQL. You can't really talk about hacking. A hacker will steal your server, move it on another server, and ask some ransons.. that's more like it.
For ingame hacking, most of the time, hack are just packet exploit, database exploit, but exploit... it isn't something harmful that couldn't be managed when handle early.

Bug exploit -> knowing the bug should lead to a fix but not a ban
Packet exploit -> I ran a server where actually a class was made for hackers ( replacing the Dark collector id ), it is unused but It lead to fantastic possibilites to define new behaviors and new capacities. Swap players code was hilarious, as well as cloning characters ( sorry van ), you can make players move according to others players, you can make them sit or run etc... ( The only thing I regret was my failure to make the skill steal working on players  )
Database exploit -> It depends on the sql injected. A truncate table with nologs won't be a joke to deal with, nor a account_user added , but all in all. You run a server you didn't pay for, that allow you to be the boss of a pseudo entertainment company and that provide quite a good game and experiences.

Emo, ego , hatred are all normal but shouldn't lead to any bad when you consume time of others. You fix the exploit, you remove the items , you pat on the guy and move on. That's how to play in both side.

[Hyperactive]

It seems many servers today are not okay with players cheating. Though there are preventative measures, what matters is how you handle the players who get past them. Swift punishment sets a precedent that you have zero tolerance for cheating. This might deter some potential cheaters, but more importantly it means that punishment is never a surprise for cheating because you don't let anyone get away with it. It sets the tone of "If you cheat and get caught, it's expected that you're going to be banned." Then there's no excuses from the players pretending the rules were too ambiguous.

It sounds like your server's staff wasn't okay with it but never actually took action. After getting away with it for so long, players got used to it, so banning them is unexpected and likely caused emotions to run high.

I think all rule enforcement needs to be clear and concise. You have rules, and if they are broken, there will be punishment. Whether that's a posting suspension for flaming on the forums or an account ban for botting. The more you inadvertently "allow," the more users will try to get away with. It creates a lot of grey area and when the staff finally decides to take action, there's always some drama. If I were creating a server I would make sure that users are made well aware of the rules during registering and maybe a one-time pop-up on character creation to stop players from pretending like they don't know.

The best RO communities that I have been involved in are the ones that disallow cheating of any kind and where the staff actually enforces the rules. The "toxic woe community" is always there but their toxicity is held at bay with a professional staff.


Answers to your thought provoking questions:

Spoiler

• How do you weigh up player welfare versus the server's rules?
The server rules exist for a reason. Unless the rules were copy-pasted from another server without reading them, the staff usually is trying to dictate what type of server they intend to have. Players should be aware of the rules.

•If the server died due to too many players being banned, did the staff make the right call?
If the server had been alive for a very long time with cheaters running rampant and they just now decided to ban them all, it's a bad call. If you ban 20% of the server after the first week of being open, it's a good call.

•Is hastening the process really a bad thing? Did the server deserve to live in that state?
Totally up to the staff on what type of server they are okay with having.

•If "everybody" is cheating, is it right?
If cheating is against the rules, then no, it's not right.

•By "allowing" cheating to happen, does it do either of the following? - A. Hold the current player base, B. Prevent future growth.
If you allow cheating, by not having rules against it, you might actually attract those looking for a place to use their "cheats." If you have rules against it, but the staff still allows it, it stunts growth of the server and you'll likely end up with only the cheaters left.

•Has this server run it's course, or should the staff and players band together and try their best?
Depends on what type of server the players involved want. Probably should be a discussion among the remaining community.

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