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Author Topic: @autoloot  (Read 5163 times)

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Offline horo

@autoloot
« on: Jun 07, 2009, 04:00 am »
First of, I'd like this discussion to regard LR servers only, as higher rates have far more basic problems and shouldn't be concerned by this issue.

@autoloot is the most popular command on servers nowadays, and rightfully so. Never having to waste time picking up loot greatly speeds up the play, and you're never in danger of not reaching a particular item in the distance, or losing it because of death/disconnect. With the rising popularity of @autolootid, things have become even more convenient. Certainly a strong opponent to make a case against!

Yet servers that pride themselves on balance should not have autoloot. Here are some of the ways it's broken:

1. Spells like Storm Gust and Magnus Exorcismus stay on the ground even if you leave through a portal or flywing away. With @autoloot however, you can safely flywing as soon as the mob is deposited in the spells' area of effect, and no longer chance the loss of whatever may drop (like you, who couldn't possibly tank what you've pulled)! It'll be magically thrown into your inventory from miles away, greatly favouring classes that possess such AoE spells.

2. Due to the way damage in RO registers, you can avoid that red 20000 over your head by flywinging and it won't be substracted from your HP. Very useful versus enemies that dish out these killer skills frequently! @autoloot however makes this into a ridiculous "hit and wing" game. Take for example a Whitesmith that's all offense to Geffenia: You can flywing around Cart Terminating Abysmal Knights for cards happily while you're never in any danger of the deathly numbers they just inflicted actually becoming reality. This is just one of many examples, and if you don't think this is a big issue, aforementioned WS in Geffenia is far and away the best way to get money and rares on LR servers.

3. This one concerns partying with random people, whom you can not always trust. With @autoloot (regardless of item even share or not), you'll never know what drops, or who got it. A paradise for dishonest players!

4. It makes Snipers with their extreme range an overpowered, and thus overused farming class (think Tidal/Wool farming on NI). If you've ever played a server without @autoloot, you'll notice that this classes' presence isn't nearly as dominant. It's an issue of class balance.


Overall, @autoloot favours a solo playstyle utilizing flywings rather than a walking or static party, when I think the later is what should be encouraged. I hope not to have forgotten any important points, but while there are only 4 above, each of those has significance on LR servers that should not be ignored by the concerned server owner!


Let's have a worthwhile discussion, and I'll do my part in ripping the heads off of pinoy posters and other worthless respondents.

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Offline Pow

Re: @autoloot
« Reply #1 on: Jun 07, 2009, 05:25 am »
I deliberately left this thread open on my rounds on a separate tab so I could reply to it.

I have to say that I disagree you - I have always been a lover of @autoloot.. And up until you mentioned it then, I have never considered even using AOE spells to get "loot" in such a way.

I do, however, think that there should be a distance limit on where stuff can "magically appear" in your inventory. I'm too drunk to muster up a decent reply... Bite me.

-Pow
Divided we stand, together we fall.
There isn't any god that can save us all
So don't pray on your knees, just beg on your hands
There is no belief in this promised land

Offline DeePee

Re: @autoloot
« Reply #2 on: Jun 07, 2009, 06:35 am »
On a Low Rate server I really don't like to have autoloot. On Mid/High/Super High Rate servers, sure. People play those kind of servers because they are tired of leveling/looting and just want to do other things.

However, most people play a Low Rate server to experience building up their character, seeing it grow and working towards getting that one item you have always wanted. Autoloot doesn't fit in this scenario honestly. People use that command for the exact same reason that people play Mid/High/Super High Rate servers: they do not want to bother picking up loot. This entirely breaks the spirit of a Low Rate Server where you build up things slowly.

On top of all the examples you mentioned, I'd also like to throw in the Greed skill. Autoloot makes this skill completely useless, which destroys part of the gameplay experience. If you are killing small mobs or you kill mobs one by one, it's easy enough to pick up those few items on the ground. When you however kill big mobs all the time, ever thought of partying with a BS/WS? It's a combination I quite often see on my server and I honestly don't want to kill that by adding a command that takes away a large portion of the BS/WS PvM experience/purpose.

Offline Skotlex

Re: @autoloot
« Reply #3 on: Jun 07, 2009, 08:43 am »
Code: (atcommand.c) [Select]
//This is the distance at which @autoloot works,
//if the item drops farther from the player than this,
//it will not be autolooted. [Skotlex]
//Note: The range is unlimited unless this define is set.
//#define AUTOLOOT_DISTANCE AREA_SIZE

Though you did find a bug in the sense that map-changes are not taken into account.

EDIT: I should add that autoloot does respect the party item sharing rules (just not the pickup-time ones, but the ones where one person picks the item, and someone else gets it instead).
« Last Edit: Jun 07, 2009, 08:45 am by Skotlex »

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Offline Green

Re: @autoloot
« Reply #4 on: Jun 07, 2009, 01:01 pm »
Eh. I love having it. I don't reall hunt in such a way, or in super amounts of damage that I would be losing out by having to manually pick up items.

But it saves me getting frustrated at the "You cannot pick up this item" ("as it is not yours?") messages that I have gotten on @autoloot-less servers before, even though I was the only person around to have killed such mob for such item.

The other question raised, is how it would effect custom gears that make items drop. On heRo, for example, a lot of custom gears drop GBs. If I was out with a party or the such, would these items coming from my gears be dropped on the ground and made as fairgame, too?
(Actually, on that note, I should check how they handle with @autoloot and share items.. they might already pass around to others.)

Offline Orange

Re: @autoloot
« Reply #5 on: Jun 07, 2009, 06:53 pm »
I've seen servers where people dileberatly say 60% kill a mob then fwing, Letting someone else finish it later and they get the loot. You spend about half the time killing mobs, Not as much risk to die, and if you don't need exp you lose out on nothing at all(Not to mention you get near full exp anyway)

That is really annoying, never seen the SG and tele away thing, If a server didn't have autoloot I would have to say they would need something like 15 seconds before anyone that didn't kill the mob can take the loot(Or else you end up with every hunter/sniper/ranged class complaining about people stealing their items)

@autoloot is a good command for a server to have imo.
:3

Offline horo

Re: @autoloot
« Reply #6 on: Jun 07, 2009, 07:36 pm »
To be honest, when I asked for a worthwhile discussion, I wasn't looking for opinions like "I luv teh @autoloot XD" or "I don't use/haven't seen this method of abuse, so it doesn't concern me!" but for arguments regarding the obvious imbalance and potential for abuse my initial post pointed out. If you haven't used these methods, you've not realized the potential of @autoloot, but rest assured that a significant number of players on your server have. If you asked LR players straight up if they valued balance over convenience, I'm sure most would reply positively, but would subsequently backpedal once @autoloot is mentioned, which I find irritating.

I'm not trying to convince any servers into not having @autoloot anymore or anything of the sort, just trying to gauge awareness of its baggage.
« Last Edit: Jun 07, 2009, 08:16 pm by horo »

Offline Ayu

Re: @autoloot
« Reply #7 on: Jun 07, 2009, 11:00 pm »
I understand what you mean and there's always some annoyed players complaining once in awhile for our server too on Main why a bunch of monsters are left half dead. Sometimes player purposely leave nearly dead monsters there, and then go off to let another player kill it to abuse the "boosted experience" due to someone else hitting the monster. Autoloot still ensures that they get the loot that way. Is this a problem? Yes I will say so, but it's not a huge one.

On the other hand, this is one of the easiest ways in preventing loot stealing or greed spamming on the popular maps, especially those that favor AoE. Sometimes even with some time limit, the party may still not make it there fast enough because another monster may have spawned on them so they are occupied. This is a bigger issue than the previous one, so this is the least of the two evils and thus why most servers got autoloot.

Also, sniping from hills is largely disabled on the currently popular training maps, so that's another issue solved for having autoloot (if you insist, browedit is public now so you can edit the old maps yourself if you want to completely eliminate sniping issue for autoloot getting items across a cliff.)

Offline LemonCrosswalk

Re: @autoloot
« Reply #8 on: Jun 07, 2009, 11:58 pm »
Why do people like Diablo II better than Diablo?

Answer: Because it was hard to see the items dropped in Diablo I. With diablo II you could find everything a lot easier with the hold down tab key option.