Server Type: Normal or PK?

[Minabe]

Doing Tripper's job.

[Haruko]

Would any of you guys play a low rate PK server? Just curious.

I myself would not, only because I have been playing Mid to HR servers since I left official back in '04. So I've grown accustomed to them.

The idea of a low rate PK server seems innovative, yes. However, I think one of the main issues would be that it being a low rate server, you would be bullied for a longer period of time, vice a MR/HR. Thus you would need to develop stronger ties early on. I believe it the server had a strong foundation, in terms of player base it could succeed.

[Bug]

I myself would not, only because I have been playing Mid to HR servers since I left official back in '04. So I've grown accustomed to them.

The idea of a low rate PK server seems innovative, yes. However, I think one of the main issues would be that it being a low rate server, you would be bullied for a longer period of time, vice a MR/HR. Thus you would need to develop stronger ties early on. I believe it the server had a strong foundation, in terms of player base it could succeed.

Had a feeling you wouldn't, based on your earlier posts.  Do you think implementing the minimum level range would help with the bullying, or at least make it more bearable? This way bullies can't prey on low leveled players, and everyone else can put up a fair fight because they're close in level.

Been a while since i looked for a good one to no avail, all are mid-high rates with higher than 99/70 max lvl or barely have players (less than 10). There was one interesting but it was "hardcore" and wasn't a real pserver.

Not a real pserver?
Yeah, I couldn't find any either. Wasn't sure if it was because no one was interested in playing them, or just nobody cared to make one.

[Haruko]

Do you think implementing the minimum level range would help with the bullying, or at least make it more bearable? This way bullies can't prey on low leveled players, and everyone else can put up a fair fight because they're close in level.

That would truly be a viable solution, I cannot disagree with you there. My only concern would be, where to draw the line? Level 50+? You'd need to get together a group of interested people and discuss various possibilities and solutions.

But still dying on a lowrate sucks unless it's above 20x I guess? It's just a really hard concept to grasp overall you see. Here's why; When I think of a "PK server" I think of huge brawls breaking out for no reason, could be killing your guildmates low lvl alt over and over, and so a 10+ man fight would break out in CT1 for instance, right? Everyone would have to keep going there after they die, death after death... After death. 20+ deaths later, you look at your exp bar and go "Oh s***... What the fu-".

My main point I am trying to make is that the repercussions for taking part in such events are much more severe(especially if you were 80+), than a MR or HR server. Now, at the same time I am not saying there are those that would not be interested, it's just finding those said people would be few and far apart, no?

All in all, it depends on how low the rates are first. I think at 10x it really wouldn't work, at all. However, increasing it to perhaps 25x just may? But then that goes back to my previous statement, that particular crowd of people would be hard to find. But then again, on the flip side how many other LR servers out there are like that? Just 3 to be exact, and how many are thriving (With a population more then 5)? None.

Judging by these statistics this makes your ideal even harder to grasp. Now it could just possibly work, but you'd need a whole lot more than a simple PK mechanic to draw people in and flourish better than the other 3 servers have already tried in the past.

[MelonNotFound]

Before the problem with PK or non-PK is the problem of how trust-worthy a server is for a player to invest his time and efforts into. The lower the rate, the more trust needed. After getting burned many times, I find it hard to trust the new low rate servers that pop up every so often.

Back to the main topic, on the server I mentioned, you don't lose EXP from player kill so it's somewhat less of a problem than people spamming branches. Also there was a PK ranking which wasn't based on how many you kill but who you kill. The more your kills, the more points you will give your killer. Once reached a certain amount of kills, your name turns red so everyone will know and target you. So the more you kill people, the more of a better target you become and while everyone gives you the same "punishment" for killing them, the low level / "peace lovers" would give much less reward. Also the rate was 10x despite being an official server.

Talk about community, I believe back in the days everything wasn't just as convenient so we learned to adopt and make good use of what we had. Now when things have become much easier to us, we lose our spirit to adopt to things, instead we want things to adopt to what we find convenient. People were also more sociable and less "machinist", just not in RO but MMO in general. MMORPG were relatively a new thing to us and there wasn't that many of them, the world of RO was still young and a mysterious. We could have fun back then just being a noob, wandering around, sitting somewhere with friends chatting, leveling up slowly all the while exploring the world, just doing these things was fun and satisfying. Nowadays most of us players just want to reach max level, get the best gears as soon as possible and provide that we are better than other people, this makes things a lot more toxic and "anti-social". I too am guilty of this.

Sorry for the rant, it was kind of off-topic from me. My point is that there used to be some good PK servers but they were of a different times and things were different. Just like how most of us were kids when we first logged into RO and now we are adults, we can't go back and so the good things of RO. To do something as "unusual" as making a successful low rate PK server, I think we can't just copy what worked back then, we need a lot of trial and error to find a new path, a new way of doing things which mean there will be many failures before we can see any success. Now I believe there is success worth to find but the cost may not be cheap.

Just my two cents.

I would like to try a low rate PK server but to stay or not is a much wider topic.

[Minabe]

Doing Tripper's job.

[Bug]

Back to the main topic, on the server I mentioned, you don't lose EXP from player kill so it's somewhat less of a problem than people spamming branches. Also there was a PK ranking which wasn't based on how many you kill but who you kill. The more your kills, the more points you will give your killer. Once reached a certain amount of kills, your name turns red so everyone will know and target you. So the more you kill people, the more of a better target you become and while everyone gives you the same "punishment" for killing them, the low level / "peace lovers" would give much less reward. Also the rate was 10x despite being an official server.

I like the sound of this. No one really bothers with the peace-lovers because they don't give you many points, unless you just want to PK them for the hell of it. 
Consider this, if you don't lose EXP from being PK'd and you can only get PK'd by players in your level range, this should prove to be pretty balanced, even on a low rate.

Talk about community, I believe back in the days everything wasn't just as convenient so we learned to adopt and make good use of what we had. Now when things have become much easier to us, we lose our spirit to adopt to things, instead we want things to adopt to what we find convenient. People were also more sociable and less "machinist", just not in RO but MMO in general. MMORPG were relatively a new thing to us and there wasn't that many of them, the world of RO was still young and a mysterious. We could have fun back then just being a noob, wandering around, sitting somewhere with friends chatting, leveling up slowly all the while exploring the world, just doing these things was fun and satisfying. Nowadays most of us players just want to reach max level, get the best gears as soon as possible and provide that we are better than other people, this makes things a lot more toxic and "anti-social". I too am guilty of this.

So this begs the question, do server owners swim upstream in attempt to make the game more challenging, social and immersive, despite the mysterious and exploratory aspects of the game being obsolete, or do they feed into this existing culture of toxicity and spoon-feeding, where players expect everything on a silver platter?
Seems like most go with the latter,  helping players cut every "unnecessary" corner possible in the name of convenience.
These kind of features only help players who are not familiar with the game. Yes, it helps everyone get through the game faster, but that's an entirely different thing than "getting ahead."
They actually rob players of small opportunities to get ahead.

The opposite extreme would be doing something like getting rid of Teleportation Services, and fly wings only being available as a dropped item (I guess you could have more mobs drop them or something).
Instantly, the world we're all so very familiar with becomes far more vast.
This probably just sounds like a big pain in the ass at first, but consider how much more interesting it would make things. Adapt. Get a creamy card. Stock up on Authoritative Badges. Suck up to every Acolyte you meet. Party more effectively so you don't die and have to walk all the way back. Level with your guild and incorporate e-call, if you're allowed to use it outside of WoE.
This kind of challenge provides tons of opportunities to get ahead, granted you adapt. All the stakes are suddenly higher.
Not saying I would implement this specifically. It's just an example of something that could re-immerse you in the game, without loads of custom content.

Sorry for the rant, it was kind of off-topic from me. My point is that there used to be some good PK servers but they were of a different times and things were different. Just like how most of us were kids when we first logged into RO and now we are adults, we can't go back and so the good things of RO. To do something as "unusual" as making a successful low rate PK server, I think we can't just copy what worked back then, we need a lot of trial and error to find a new path, a new way of doing things which mean there will be many failures before we can see any success. Now I believe there is success worth to find but the cost may not be cheap.

I like rants. I'm off-topic too, but it's part of a bigger picture.
Yes, the server ought to be solid, trustworthy, and already great with or without PK.
You say we can't copy what worked back then, what do you think is something new we can try?
Where do we blaze this path?

That would truly be a viable solution, I cannot disagree with you there. My only concern would be, where to draw the line? Level 50+? You'd need to get together a group of interested people and discuss various possibilities and solutions.

Are you referring to the minimum lvl to PK?  I was talking about the level range between players. Sorry for the confusion.

pk_min_lvl: Change this to define the minimum level players can start PK-ing
pk_level_range:  It specifies the maximum level difference between players to let them attack each other.

But still dying on a lowrate sucks unless it's above 20x I guess? It's just a really hard concept to grasp overall you see. Here's why; When I think of a "PK server" I think of huge brawls breaking out for no reason, could be killing your guildmates low lvl alt over and over, and so a 10+ man fight would break out in CT1 for instance, right? Everyone would have to keep going there after they die, death after death... After death. 20+ deaths later, you look at your exp bar and go "Oh s***... What the fu-".

My main point I am trying to make is that the repercussions for taking part in such events are much more severe(especially if you were 80+), than a MR or HR server. Now, at the same time I am not saying there are those that would not be interested, it's just finding those said people would be few and far apart, no?

misc.conf

// PK Server Mode.
//   Turns entire server pvp(excluding towns).
//   Experience loss is doubled if killed by another player.
//   When players hunt monsters over 20 levels higher, they will receive 15%
//   additional exp., and 25% chance of receiving more items.
//   There is a nopvp.txt for setting up maps not to have pk on in this mode.
//   Novices cannot be attacked and cannot attack.
//   Normal pvp counter and rank display are disabled as well.
// Note: If pk_mode is set to 2 instead of 1 (yes), players will receive a
//   manner penalty of 5 each time they kill another player (see manner_system
//   config to adjust how this will affect players)
pk_mode: 1

// Manner/karma system configuration. Specifies how does negative manner
// (red no chat bubble) affects players (add as needed):
//  0: No penalties.
//  1: Disables chatting (includes whispers, party/guild msgs, etc)
//  2: Disables skill usage
//  4: Disables commands usage
//  8: Disables item usage/picking/dropping
// 16: Disables room creation (chatrooms and vending shops)
//manner_system: 31
manner_system: 0

// For PK Server Mode. Change this to define the minimum level players can start PK-ing
pk_min_level: 55

// For PK Server Mode. It specifies the maximum level difference between
// players to let them attack each other. 0 disables said limit.
pk_level_range: 5

[close]

That's the basic configuration for PK mode. By default, "experience loss is doubled if killed by another player." So that probably contributed to those "Oh shit", WTF!?" moments. Haha.
The penalty can be reduced or disabled all together, and then you can have those all-out brawls in south Prontera, without losing all your progress.
OR the server could implement a custom insurance that doesn't wear off after being KO'ed, so you can die over and over without penalty.

All in all, it depends on how low the rates are first. I think at 10x it really wouldn't work, at all. However, increasing it to perhaps 25x just may? But then that goes back to my previous statement, that particular crowd of people would be hard to find. But then again, on the flip side how many other LR servers out there are like that? Just 3 to be exact, and how many are thriving (With a population more then 5)? None.
Judging by these statistics this makes your ideal even harder to grasp. Now it could just possibly work, but you'd need a whole lot more than a simple PK mechanic to draw people in and flourish better than the other 3 servers have already tried in the past.

Right. I wouldn't rely on that just the PK mechanic. But I think if you're smart about how you implement it, it could add a fun dynamic to the server,  as long as the negative things, like bullying and exp loss, are addressed.