Things everybody else wants in RO except you

Started by Playtester, Sep 03, 2014, 09:52 AM

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Playtester

For me, I occassionally see on a server (often suggestion) boards things that players keep asking for and everybody agrees that they want it (until server owner actually adds it), but I don't like it to be changed at all.

These things include:

1. Everybody wants: That monsters don't stop following you after a while. This was already added in 2004 by Gravity to prevent player mobbing the whole map leaving no monsters for other players (but even beforehand at least on euRO we had the rule that mobbing more than 5 monsters is against the rules). I actually like this feature, but nobody else seems to like it and many claim it isn't even official, but it simply was bugged in eAthena for a long time (the mob mode change was actually implemented, but the code had a bug so the monster never dropped their target even on mode change).

2. Everybody wants: Autoloot! For me... I don't really like it too much. Sure it's comfortable, but it ruins several things. First of all class balance... suddenly Hunters are THE best class for hunting items, without it, at least some other classes are viable too. Then it makes looter mobs pointless. I think looter mobs are a beautiful idea and are pretty unique to RO. And finally it also makes the Greed skill pointless, the only way a forger could actually be useful in a party.

3. Everybody wants: Anubis! Oh man I hate that guy, despite me usually playing Priest. I love party play. Priests are the core of any party. They simply should not be able to solo. Want to solo, don't be Priest. Fullstop. If you can't remove him, at least reduce his exp to something like 7000/5500.

4. Everybody wants: More Seals! Well that is just an example. If I look at custom spawn changes a server does on player feedback, it's always changes that make useful maps even more useful. Seals was already a popular leveling map, why boost it further? For me if there have to be custom spawns at all, they should instead make maps that are otherwise not used at all more viable. Ever seen a server adding more Frilldora spawns? While we're at that. I really liked many of Heimdallr's (old iRO admin) custom spawns despite everybody else hating them.

5. Everybody wants: PVP BGs! C'mon I really liked Flavius, because it felt more like a PVE speed challenge, but it's usually replaced with pure PVP BGs. There is also a PVE focused BG in that custom set (was it called BG 2.0?), but nobody wants that either, so it's often removed as well.

6. Everybody wants: Official bugs removed! Sometimes it's actually smart to not just copy a bug, but often a skill is balanced on official servers BECAUSE of the bug and not copying it simply makes a useful skill OP. I don't like that too much.


That's it from me. If you there are things everybody wants except you, feel free to add them here. :-)

Najara

#1
QuoteThat's it from me. If you there are things everybody wants except you, feel free to add them here. :-)

Oh, this looks like fun! Here's my list.  /ok

1. Everybody wants: As close to official game-play. When I develop (or play) a server, I enjoy it if it's out of the ordinary. With out of the ordinary, I do not mean having "rare" scripts or sprites, I mean having adjusted formulas, skills, items, cards, etc. I love highly customized servers, but sadly they hardly end well due to the lack of player interest.

2. Everybody wants: Disabled/No MvP Cards (low rate). I like to see these available! From my point of view, making MvP cards obtainable in a (low rate) server gives players the opportunity to create/explore more/different builds, which is a great attraction to me (i.e: TalonRO, AnesisRO).

3. Everybody wants: Wings. While this seems to oppose to what I've written at 1, I prefer official RO sprites with adjusted effects rather than large, flashy, view-blocking wings. I greatly appreciate the graphics in RO and seeing even one less... professionally designed wing can ruin the whole server in question for me.

dontknowright

1. Everybody wants: Card Remover: How about some commitment?
2. Everybody wants: Resetter: Plan ahead and stick to it!
3. Everybody wants: Sex and Name changes: Be less indecisive?

Judgement

Quote from: Playtester on Sep 03, 2014, 09:52 AM
Spoiler
For me, I occassionally see on a server (often suggestion) boards things that players keep asking for and everybody agrees that they want it (until server owner actually adds it), but I don't like it to be changed at all.

These things include:

1. Everybody wants: That monsters don't stop following you after a while. This was already added in 2004 by Gravity to prevent player mobbing the whole map leaving no monsters for other players (but even beforehand at least on euRO we had the rule that mobbing more than 5 monsters is against the rules). I actually like this feature, but nobody else seems to like it and many claim it isn't even official, but it simply was bugged in eAthena for a long time (the mob mode change was actually implemented, but the code had a bug so the monster never dropped their target even on mode change).

2. Everybody wants: Autoloot! For me... I don't really like it too much. Sure it's comfortable, but it ruins several things. First of all class balance... suddenly Hunters are THE best class for hunting items, without it, at least some other classes are viable too. Then it makes looter mobs pointless. I think looter mobs are a beautiful idea and are pretty unique to RO. And finally it also makes the Greed skill pointless, the only way a forger could actually be useful in a party.

3. Everybody wants: Anubis! Oh man I hate that guy, despite me usually playing Priest. I love party play. Priests are the core of any party. They simply should not be able to solo. Want to solo, don't be Priest. Fullstop. If you can't remove him, at least reduce his exp to something like 7000/5500.

4. Everybody wants: More Seals! Well that is just an example. If I look at custom spawn changes a server does on player feedback, it's always changes that make useful maps even more useful. Seals was already a popular leveling map, why boost it further? For me if there have to be custom spawns at all, they should instead make maps that are otherwise not used at all more viable. Ever seen a server adding more Frilldora spawns? While we're at that. I really liked many of Heimdallr's (old iRO admin) custom spawns despite everybody else hating them.

5. Everybody wants: PVP BGs! C'mon I really liked Flavius, because it felt more like a PVE speed challenge, but it's usually replaced with pure PVP BGs. There is also a PVE focused BG in that custom set (was it called BG 2.0?), but nobody wants that either, so it's often removed as well.

6. Everybody wants: Official bugs removed! Sometimes it's actually smart to not just copy a bug, but often a skill is balanced on official servers BECAUSE of the bug and not copying it simply makes a useful skill OP. I don't like that too much.


That's it from me. If you there are things everybody wants except you, feel free to add them here. :-)
[close]

Spoiler
1- Think you messed up here.
2- tRO has a mini greed instead of autoloot to make picking up loot a bit easier.  It's a pretty neat alternative to autoloot.
3- Yeah I find it silly that Anubis exists.  Easy monster that gives insane exp.
4- Yeah adding more mobs of an already popular map is dumb, and even worse when it's a zenny farming map.
5- ey men you better not be dissin' the SE Castle BGs.  They's fun.  I did enjoy doing all the different custom BGs back when ChronosRO was around though.  Doing the MvP one and watching Valk and Morroc die in seconds was hilarious.
6- idk what kind of things were bugs or were just differences of Aegis vs eAthena so dunno. :(
[close]

Things I want that nobody else seems to want.
A huge lasting NA server.
Super Smash Brothers 64!

Playtester

Quote3. Everybody wants: Sex and Name changes: Be less indecisive?
Do really so many people want sex and name changes? I've never seen that.
I agree with the other two points.

Quote1- Think you messed up here.
As in you want it removed too? Well this is about what everybody wants except me, so then it serves its purpose if you want it removed too. =p

Quote5- ey men you better not be dissin' the SE Castle BGs.  They's fun.  I did enjoy doing all the different custom BGs back when ChronosRO was around though.  Doing the MvP one and watching Valk and Morroc die in seconds was hilarious.
I just don't like PVP in general. I didn't mean that PVP BGs should be removed but rather that there also should be the PVE BGs be left in. Especially Flavius and similar designed "Defeat all monsters faster than the enemy group" challenges, because I think those are fun.

QuoteThings I want that nobody else seems to want.
A huge lasting NA server.
You mean like iRO? I think there are plenty people who want that. At least it still has around 2000 players on renewal and 500 on classic.
Not to mention the server you are currently on: TalonRO. It's huge. Lasting. And hosted in NA as far as I know.

Mrew2

1. Warper. I never really liked warpers. They downgraded the fear of having to make it to the dungeon at least once for /memo and removed the need for quests, if we're talking dungeons. It just promotes lazy gameplay.

2. Resetter. There are so many calculators out there but everybody wants a resetter under the excuse that "what if I want to experiment?" as if all builds haven't been done 10x over by all the people that came before. I can understand a resetter that may reset a few stats  incase you clicked the wrong stat but anymore is just people leveling in one build and then switching for specific scenarios, which is OP.

3. Medium + Rates. I've always found RO was the best when it was challenging or at least took a long time to reach 99. That's something official servers got right with the 1x rates. Reaching 99 was a grindfest but it felt like an achievement to make it. With these higher rates, it's not longer rewarding to reach 99, now it's just race to be the first max and even then it is not gratifying. It's just standard.

4. Standards. Coming from a bit above, I don't like how you must bend your own server's ideas to match those of mainstream in order to make a popular/successful server. If it weren't for the fact that servers costed and I knew people would avoid it like the plague rather than trying it, I would open my own 1x server with no custom features that change gameplay, only ones that which improves it, such as @mi for convenience of not alt tabbing to rms but nothing like autoloot, warpers or resetters but that can't happen because that server would die pretty quick and I wouldn't be able to manage the server costs for more than, at most, six months.

5. F2P Models. Unfortunately, unless you have money to blow, you have to roll the F2P model in which you offer convenience at a cost and otherwise nothing. A lot of players see this as a way for the server owner to make money, and while there are owners that do exploit this just for money, it screws over the honest admins who need the money to help keep the server afloat.

Playtester

To 4) Well in theory you can just run the server emulator on your home computer. You just need to setup port forwarding on your router right (make sure you use a fixed LAN IP) and it should work. A modern PC should be able to handle at least 20 players without any problems. This is what I did anyway (to play with friends).

pillbug

Quote from: Playtester on Sep 03, 2014, 09:52 AM
6. Everybody wants: Official bugs removed! Sometimes it's actually smart to not just copy a bug, but often a skill is balanced on official servers BECAUSE of the bug and not copying it simply makes a useful skill OP. I don't like that too much.

Could you elaborate on this?

Playtester

Quote from: pillbug on Sep 04, 2014, 08:37 AM
Could you elaborate on this?
For example BowlingBash was always bugged on private servers. Instead of using a complex "bowling" algorithm, it simply did 3x3 splash damage. After I implemented it properly, everybody wanted it to be reverted to the 3x3 area (even though that's not necessarily better, you just need to learn how to use the bowling effect best).

Or like status resistances that also were always wrong on eAthena/rAthena by giving immunity at 97 by default instead of 100 (which also could be reached by combined VIT and LUK). Saw plenty of people asking for it to be changed back so that 97 means immunity.

And of course also what I mentioned in the first point.

If your question is referring to how "fixing bugs" / "keep official bugs" helps with balance. Let's take for example Fire Pillar. People will usually say it sucks. But the truth it that on officials (jRO at least), it is actually quite a viable skill for Agi Wizards. This is because you can actually knock it around like other traps on officials and it has a similar effect stacking as Blast Mine / Claymore (pre-renewal only). So on official Wizards lock in really strong mobs within ice wall, then knock several fire pillars onto the same tile and then knock the whole thing into the mob. You can even instant kill Abysmal Knights like that (with is quite a feat for a Wizard).
Unfortunately nobody ever managed to implement that on eAthena/rAthena. =x

Judgement

Quote from: Playtester on Sep 04, 2014, 01:44 AM

Oh whoop misread something on #1.

For the large server thing, I mean more than 1k active players and not just stagnated.  Classic iRO having 500 players (with half bots)  isn't much, and well don't care much for renewal unfortunately.  As for TalonRO, it's a pretty big server but it has stagnated to around 1-1.5k players with a dead WoE scene and lacking community (not that many parties, etc.).  The WoE scene is pretty much kills my interest with that server.  And I doubt many people want to play in a huge server when they keep joining new servers, have very specific requirements for joining servers, etc.
Super Smash Brothers 64!

Fluorite~

Quote from: Playtester on Sep 04, 2014, 09:26 AM
Let's take for example Fire Pillar. People will usually say it sucks. But the truth it that on officials (jRO at least), it is actually quite a viable skill for Agi Wizards. This is because you can actually knock it around like other traps on officials and it has a similar effect stacking as Blast Mine / Claymore (pre-renewal only). So on official Wizards lock in really strong mobs within ice wall, then knock several fire pillars onto the same tile and then knock the whole thing into the mob. You can even instant kill Abysmal Knights like that (with is quite a feat for a Wizard).
Unfortunately nobody ever managed to implement that on eAthena/rAthena. =x
Really?  I remember doing this before on eAthena, and it was a magical sunburst.  Blowing up 40 Scarabas all at once felt so good.  But then it got removed with the official Claymore Trap/Blast Mine nerf/bug fix thing, and it made me sad (had to switch to Fire Pillar + Magnum Break chaining).

Everyone wants:  3rd party programs/cheats to help them out in WoE.  It applies moreso to high rate or "competitive" servers.  It's gotten to the point where people claim that it's an important part of the game and that they won't play on a server without their precious cheats.

boxlunch

Quote from: Judgement on Sep 04, 2014, 12:24 AM
Things I want that nobody else seems to want.
A huge lasting NA server.
Me too

I also want a server with a focus on the metagame where players aim to get better rather than rely on the same old gameplay from 6 yrs ago. We tried doing it with a previous server, and while there was interest in what could've become the biggest RO server, players were flocking to other gimmicks. Instead of pursuing newer and greater metagame, players were moving towards things like pre-trans servers which is literally the dumbest s*** ever. Over 20k players from SEA play on those and it just boggles my mind that they're playing such a regressive metagame from literally 10 years ago. How is a swordy/knight even fun to play in WoE? Where's the build diversity? Where are the dynamic battles? Where's the challenge? Where's the fun? How can anyone possibly enjoy playing on such s*** servers? It's like they've given up on RO and would rather play some kiddy s*** -- and if they want to play kiddy s***, why not maplestory or gunbound or some other game from 2004? Seriously, pre-trans servers are the death of RO, it's so sad.

Also f*** Renewal. The worst thing to ever happen to RO. Gravity tried to fix one f*** up with an even bigger f*** up that did nothing but break the game mechanics even more. They tried to fix what wasn't broken instead of fixing what was broken, and adding content and features that would lead to more progressive gameplay. Third jobs are a useless gimmick. They're so OP and not a single server has been able to fix them. You literally have to break them down into about 2+ classes each due to the amount of broken skills. Mind you there are some interesting elements, such as Wizards working together to cast what is basically an ensemble attack, but the execution overall is just unbearably bad. f*** Renewal I can't understand why those servers exist.

While it might be a shameless plug, we're trying again with a new server to pursue more refined metagame through more concise fetaures so players won't be as overwhelmed as they complained about in the past -- although if what they really wanted to play was kiddie RO from 2004, then there was really no hope for them to begin with. Hopefully we can create a large and stable NA RO server that offers players lots of content and most importantly, great WoEs and MVPing. We want people to fight aggressively and ambitiously in WoE. We want people to camp and fight over MVPs like they were designed to be. We want the experience RO was meant to be rather than the crap we were served by incompetent Gravity personnel. RO is a unique MMORPG with great potential, but sadly it's potential has yet to have been realized. Maybe instead of inidividual servers, the most competent GM teams should pull their knowledge and resources to make the ultimate server; some servers have great content, some servers have great mechanics, and some servers have great communities, but seldom does any single server score high in all three fields.

flyingheo

What I want from a server unlike other people:

@command for players- For a person that started playing RO since iro beta. I don't really care much for any of the @command that servers offer now. It really doesn't matter to me except @storage. It's the most useful one out of all @command provided to the players.

Pre-renewal server - I played since iRO Beta. I know what it was like. I know there were changes made to the game. But, I still rather play something new then get caught up with living in the past.

Custom- I have no clue who thought custom wings were a good idea. I like over power skill, the way they're designed to be. I don't like how server advertise 'balance'. So what if gravity didn't do a good job balancing the skills and classes, how can a group of people that copied their game make it better?

Active PvP/WoE- Drama. There will always be a sore loser regardless of what they say. It's fun to have something to fight for, but how many people use trash talk to back up their lost?

Playtester

Quote from: Fluorite~ on Sep 05, 2014, 12:31 AM
Really?  I remember doing this before on eAthena, and it was a magical sunburst.  Blowing up 40 Scarabas all at once felt so good.  But then it got removed with the official Claymore Trap/Blast Mine nerf/bug fix thing, and it made me sad (had to switch to Fire Pillar + Magnum Break chaining).
Multi-hit did always work on eAthena, however what didn't work was knocking back Fire Pillar (on officials, people use sighttrasher or sightblaster for it). At least when I tried it, it didn't work. Just wasn't possible to knock it back at all.

On eAthena or other emulators the multi-hit thing was rather silly. There are quite big differences between official and emulators in this regard. Official server are event based. If a mob walks on a trap that calls an event that makes the trap activate. On emulators it's different out of performance reason. It simply checks every 200ms ("is monster on same tile as trap?"). The multi-hitting basically is caused by multiple monsters activating the trap at the same time. That means on eAthena and other emulators it was possible to activate the multi-hitting aspect easily by simply mobbing lots of monsters and then let them run over a trap, because within 200ms you had several mobs on the 3x3 trap area. On officials, it isn't that easy. The trap will activate so fast that just the one mob touching it first will be counted at all, unless you really have a huge mob. So on officials players used a different trick: They mobbed a bunch of monsters, placed a claymore trap, but instead of letting mobs run over it, they pushed the trap right into the mobs with arrow shower (btw, another balancing thing, on emulators, arrow shower is almost useless). That way the trap instantly was on top of several monsters which caused the multi-hit effect perfectly even on officials. So if you ever see a player pushing a trap into a mob then he probably came from official servers. Never seen that being done on privates (not that I watched many hunters, though).

I think them multi-hit thing was fixed on officials now too, but not in pre-renewal. That fix came with the renewal update where at the same time they like quadrupled trap damage to balance it out.


@boxlunch
What do you find so bad about pre-trans servers? "It's 10 years old" doesn't really seem to be a valid reason for me.
If you ask me a lot of things were better pre-Amatsu, like monster stats and spawns.
Trans classes aren't that bad, since they balanced out a few things, though. I guess you mean that.


@flyingheo
I think you meant to say "What I don't from a server unlike other people" instead.


@Judgement
Okay understood. But I think that's actually something most people want.

wireless

Quote from: Fluorite~ on Sep 05, 2014, 12:31 AM
Everyone wants:  3rd party programs/cheats to help them out in WoE.  It applies moreso to high rate or "competitive" servers.  It's gotten to the point where people claim that it's an important part of the game and that they won't play on a server without their precious cheats.

Yeah, this is exactly the reason why I haven't played WoE in years. It's just ridiculous these days.