some people hold needless grudges.....

Started by finklestein, Oct 11, 2007, 05:22 PM

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finklestein

A very large amount of people seem to have hate for servers like Euph and Anima, because of things in the past or factors that are irrelevant to the game itself. I really dont care that euph was corrupt in the past, it looks like an awesome server minus the no resetting and job quests. Same with anima, the GMs are nice and there are helpful players, seeing as i never encountered one of the many elitist players that people here described. Stop overexaggerating small flaws in servers and holding grudges. I sure as hell dont.

Anima has no problems in my eyes, it was my first server and it is the only server other than the talon ripoff that has that kind of MvP card economy on such low rates. To me, its something unique that really makes the server stande out. The GMs never bugged me or banned me needlessly, because i followed the rules and didnt get pwned by kyrie lmao. Only reason i quit anima was due to lag, but its prolly due to the fact i live in ontario and the server is far away.


Mirandu

Exactly! I don't see why so many people (especially 90% of the RMS people here) like to bash every aRO thread.

What could it be? Probably payback, because some of them got banned. Envy? Could be, too. Well, I don't say everything which was said here about AnimaRO is a lie - but seriously: WHO CARES? Lol.
Who cares, what some banned player says on his "Truth" site? Yeah, it's his opinion, and probably justified, but ehh - do you guys all live in the past? You always tell us stories about AnimaRO's past, more than one year ago (I only play for 1 year and 3-4 months). I NEVER encountered any corruption problems, and the GMs were always fair and nice when I played. So why would anyone care about the past?

It's a game! And most people here behave like the old people: There's nothing to do for them, so they have to fret about everything they see.

I just go on this forum from time to time to laugh about these things: Whenever someone tries to praise AnimaRO, a Mod or Admin comes and tells him to stop, then the whole Anti-AnimaRO-Crew bashes the thread, and a war begins between Supporters and Enemies.
Really.. ridiculous ;D

As long as you can play on the server and have fun, there's nothing to whine about!
So yeah, most people here should grow up, move on to their own server and be fair business partners.

Oh, and always keep in mind: Drama makes your server popular~ ;)
Still confused, but on a higher level.

Guest

lol personally i just dun like euphRO cause of its functions as for anima i never played there so i dun judge it
and i just have this feeling that this topic is going to end badly Dx

Quotethose who don't know their past are doomed to repeat it

finklestein

if idiots want to turn this inot a flame war that wasnt supposed to happen, let them. They are only further proving my point.

BMontgomery

Quote from: finklestein on Oct 11, 2007, 05:22 PM
factors that are irrelevant to the game itself.

Like it or not, some people do care about what goes on behind the scenes of a server that they are supporting and playing on. At face value, the 2 servers you mention are and can be fun servers to play on, but underlying factors can ruin it for some folks.

I look at it this way...an off the wall analogy, I know, but it's all the same, or so I think. Take African WAR DIAMONDS for example. Some of those diamonds are damned nice, and at face value are equal to any other diamond on the market, but the money these diamonds generate go towards the war efforts of various Rebels....we are talking about some sick stuff here. Diamond for diamond, they are no different, but what goes on behind the scenes of the WAR DIAMONDS and what goes on behind the scenes of the rest of the diamond industry is not one and the same. To many people this matters, and that is why much of the diamond industry has shunned away those diamonds. Most people like their money and support to be going towards some kind of legitamate cause, myself included.

EuphRO's money went towards drugs...I don't know what is going on now though.

AnimaRO's money goes to Harkens legal problems...getting sued for SEVERAL GRAND by Debbie's mom and most recently copyright infraction charges due to the stolen software he uses (that is why the site is down, don't ask me to prove this because I can't any better than anyone can prove anything in this kind of setting).The latter is still an open case and exactly what will come of the charges is not known yet.

Some don't care what goes on behind the scenes and some do. I don't like the idea of playing at a corruption house regardless of the quality of game play nor do I like buying war diamonds from Africa. Again, odd example, I know, but I think you get the point.

bensei

I just agree with the op. Also, Noone should care whats "behind the scences" in the gms RL. The only thing that matters is the game. =)

DeePee

Quote from: finklestein on Oct 11, 2007, 05:22 PM
A very large amount of people seem to have hate for servers like Euph and Anima, because of things in the past or factors that are irrelevant to the game.

Anima has no problems in my eyes, it was my first server and it is the only server other than the talon ripoff.

This seems kinda contradicting...

Transcend

Quote from: finklestein on Oct 11, 2007, 08:09 PM
if idiots want to turn this inot a flame war that wasnt supposed to happen, let them. They are only further proving my point.
When anyone makes an aRO topic, it's generaly TO flame aRO, or the RMS community that dosen't like aRO.
As to euph, we <3 euph :D only a few don't like euphRO

Mirandu

Quote from: BMontgomery on Oct 12, 2007, 01:32 AM
Quote from: finklestein on Oct 11, 2007, 05:22 PM
factors that are irrelevant to the game itself.

Like it or not, some people do care about what goes on behind the scenes of a server that they are supporting and playing on. At face value, the 2 servers you mention are and can be fun servers to play on, but underlying factors can ruin it for some folks.

I look at it this way...an off the wall analogy, I know, but it's all the same, or so I think. Take African WAR DIAMONDS for example. Some of those diamonds are damned nice, and at face value are equal to any other diamond on the market, but the money these diamonds generate go towards the war efforts of various Rebels....we are talking about some sick stuff here. Diamond for diamond, they are no different, but what goes on behind the scenes of the WAR DIAMONDS and what goes on behind the scenes of the rest of the diamond industry is not one and the same. To many people this matters, and that is why much of the diamond industry has shunned away those diamonds. Most people like their money and support to be going towards some kind of legitamate cause, myself included.

EuphRO's money went towards drugs...I don't know what is going on now though.

AnimaRO's money goes to Harkens legal problems...getting sued for SEVERAL GRAND by Debbie's mom and most recently copyright infraction charges due to the stolen software he uses (that is why the site is down, don't ask me to prove this because I can't any better than anyone can prove anything in this kind of setting).The latter is still an open case and exactly what will come of the charges is not known yet.

Some don't care what goes on behind the scenes and some do. I don't like the idea of playing at a corruption house regardless of the quality of game play nor do I like buying war diamonds from Africa. Again, odd example, I know, but I think you get the point.

As I said before: It IS a game, not a Diamond War ;D Way to make yourself look kinda ridiculous, if you care so much about everything and their mom.

Well, and if you know what's going on behind the scenes, the downtime of the website and so on, then be happy and enjoy your life. Because I think that 90% of the server's population does not care about what happens to the money - it's still a free server, donations are optional, and - let's be honest - most people just donate to get gear and items, not to support the server in any way, so I don't really think they care what happens behind the scenes, as long as they can play. Well, and if the server goes down with all the money they donated - bad luck? Why would anyone donate into an illegal server anyway (every private RO server)? It's always linked to a risk.

So please, keep your "knowledge" by yourself and let's all be happy, right? :D

Oh, by the way, Hi Ben! ;)
Still confused, but on a higher level.

Skotlex

If players don't care at all, someone is bound to take advantage of that. Suppose the existence of a MafiaRO (not affiliated to the actual MafiaRO if it exists) which were ran by ... well, the russian mafia. And supposed they used this money to further their own goals. The players of the server should not care, right? Because all that matters is the game itself, the ethical issues that the maintainers may be going through are irrelevant. You pay for your service (via donations) and beyond that it is none of your concerns. It should not matter a bit if the product you acquired was produced through child labor or slavery.

On the other side of the scale, if players care too much we get RMS.

I think you get the idea.

(RMS reviews)

bensei

Quote from: Skotlex on Oct 12, 2007, 08:01 AM
If players don't care at all, someone is bound to take advantage of that. Suppose the existence of a MafiaRO (not affiliated to the actual MafiaRO if it exists) which were ran by ... well, the russian mafia. And supposed they used this money to further their own goals. The players of the server should not care, right? Because all that matters is the game itself, the ethical issues that the maintainers may be going through are irrelevant. You pay for your service (via donations) and beyond that it is none of your concerns. It should not matter a bit if the product you acquired was produced through child labor or slavery.

On the other side of the scale, if players care too much we get RMS.

I think you get the idea.
Everything that should matter to us is if the server runs laggfree, and if the gms are helpful/do their job and also stuff like in game balance.

What the gms do irl with the money i donate, cares me a wet poop to be honest. As long as i know they take care of the server (like updating it and stuff if need be)


Also, its still a DONATION, although it looks pretty differemt from time to time (as i have to admit), You are nowhere near a "seller-customer" relation with the gms.



Also, Heya Mirandu, long time no see D:

Pandora

I'll throw in my 2 cents, for lack of better thing to do this morning. This is meant as general observations, it could apply to any server really.

If you got burnt once, you're likely to be more cautious, yes perhaps those servers have changed and mend their ways, but impressions stick. Once bitten twice shy, it's no surprised that people still harbor bad feelings. Are the servers all good now? I know not, if they are well good for them and their players but you can't erase the past with the snap of a finger. It's like the same in every aspect of life, if someone wronged you, chances are you'll be  more cautious and avoid them if you can, it may take some time for forgiveness to come, if ever. Instead of starting flame topics (not calling this one flame but i have seen them before), people in favor of those server should find a positive way to make other people see what they see, bashing others for their opinion is surely not helping.

As for donation and where the money goes, some people don't care, but I think it's natural that many players will actually care about it. If you're told a server needs funds to survive and you donate to keep it alive, you wouldn't want that the money actually goes to the pocket of the admin. If you donate to help a server, you want the money to actually go toward exactly that. And if the admins claim that the funds are needed for the server but use the money for themselves, well it's called lying and very few people like being lied to XD
[color=darkblue]heRO is a great friendly, pre-renweal, unique and fun server with a great community, give it a try![/color]



[color=darkblue]Click here to find out more about heRO![/color]

Krystalx

"The only thing that matters is the game"

No, I'd care if my donations go to some1's drugs, sex change operation, etc.
It'd be different if they actually SAY "Hey, the current donation money goes to *whatever*" instead of hiding it and banning whoever mentions it.

bensei

Quote from: Krystalx on Oct 12, 2007, 11:01 AM
"The only thing that matters is the game"

No, I'd care if my donations go to some1's drugs, sex change operation, etc.
It'd be different if they actually SAY "Hey, the current donation money goes to *whatever*" instead of hiding it and banning whoever mentions it.

If you donate to a person, you are willing to let them use your money, for their uses. Your NOT in a seller/costumer relation, so your not supposed to have any insight at all. If Gms do not want other people to know what happens with doantions, its their personal right pf privacy.

If you dont like how donations work, i have a hint for you: Do not donate.

Emeralda

Quote from: bensei on Oct 12, 2007, 02:33 PM
If you donate to a person, you are willing to let them use your money, for their uses. Your NOT in a seller/costumer relation, so your not supposed to have any insight at all. If Gms do not want other people to know what happens with doantions, its their personal right pf privacy.

Wasn't the idea of 'donations' supposed to mean supporting the goal of it? In case of private servers it would mean the server itself, like new hardware, monthly costs and such? Anything else shouldn't really be called 'donations'.

bensei

Quote from: Emeralda on Oct 12, 2007, 02:41 PM
Quote from: bensei on Oct 12, 2007, 02:33 PM
If you donate to a person, you are willing to let them use your money, for their uses. Your NOT in a seller/costumer relation, so your not supposed to have any insight at all. If Gms do not want other people to know what happens with doantions, its their personal right pf privacy.

Wasn't the idea of 'donations' supposed to mean supporting the goal of it? In case of private servers it would mean the server itself, like new hardware, monthly costs and such? Anything else shouldn't really be called 'donations'.
Well of course, But who would donate to a server that has laggy servers anyway? The gms need to keep their hardware and such things up to date, in order to keep people satisfied so that they donate more.

However, what i mean is basically that it isnt our buisness what the gms do with the money.
If you see the server is crap and laggs, simply do not donate. Its easy as that.

Krystalx

Quote from: bensei on Oct 12, 2007, 02:33 PMIf you donate to a person, you are willing to let them use your money, for their uses.
They claim that "Their uses" are updating the server, getting better hardware, etc.
If it's going to be money for whatever then make sure every1 knows your money goes to the GM's pocket for his personal life MAYBE the server if he/she feels like it instead of always saying that donations r for the server.

Raruri

I won't defend the motives for the donation system, I didn't mind the original system, where you donate, and based upon the donation you were qualified for a certain "gift".

I was, however against the Ad shop idea, if only for the ethics and the possibility of many more "donater noobs" popping up.

Do I think most of the money goes to the server? No.

Why?

Because I know individuals who have donated more than 1k in a single day. And I know if there are a few people doing that, than there must be many more. Anima has a large player base, and when about 6 out of every 10 players donates at least $10 every few days, it adds up, and adds up to quite a large chunk of cash. While the bills may be somewhat expensive for aRO, I highly doubt its anything near a few thousand dollars. I know what certain members of the staff are paid (yes, people get paid *gasp*) and even that, monthly added up, doesn't really damage the figures Anima can potentially make per month. Would I think less of Harken if I found out he pocketed some of that cash? Hardly, What the hell is he supposed to do with it all? Just throw it in a bank account for Anima, hell maybe he HAS done that. Anyway, I do know that the bills are paid, and the server is kept, for the most part, stable,balanced and fair. And as a player, thats all that matters to me. As long as I know that stuff is kept in check, I could care less what he does with the extra cash accumulated.

In my personal opinion, anybody who is going on a "crusade" to stop the "corrupt" AnimaRO, or to stop the "Evil" Harken, should really,really find something more productive to do. If you want to do something that has meaning, and is productive and will help people in the long run, do something that will actually matter, like public charity work, school charities,Red Cross, etc etc. Get out and actually help people. Because honestly, your "crusade" is against nothing more than a GAME Server. A Game server that gets at least 50 new players a week.You can argue and bicker, and show all the "proof" you want, but in the end its pointless, and you've failed in doing anything productive at all. All you've managed to do is waste a few minutes/hours of your life pursuing a failing, and pointless objective.

If at the end of the day, you just want a good RO server to play, then find it, and play it, if you don't like it, move on. If you think it is crappy and corrupt, and think people should know, then just make a thread about it, post what you observed and what you think about the server. Then Move On and find a different server that would better suit you, instead of wasting time with this nonsense.
Most of you are still kids, or young adults, you have a lot of life to live, stop wasting your few young years with this nonesense.
Either do the above, or if you haven't one already, go outside, meet friends, hangout, and get a social life with productive people.
Don't waste your life indoors playing games all day, or bickering with people on forum sites over something that has no lasting value.

Anyway, thats my 2..or 50 cents xD

Have fun and stay safe,
                                   Raruri

Disclaimer: I meant no offense to anyone in anyway in this post, these are my views and opinions based on my own personal experiences. If anyone took offense to this, or anything in this post, I apologize.

BMontgomery

#18
Raruri, who do you suspect is on a crusade agaist aro? I don't know of anyone. I do see your point about playing RO and talking about RO being completely and utterly pointless and a huge waiste of time (and $ for those that donate). But, it can be fun. You sure do seem to do alot of both though. I don't see anything wrong with pocketing donated money either, but lying and/or not being up front about what the money goes towards is another story.

Mirandu, of course I know this is not the diamond industry. That was just an analogy and when I wrote that I had just watched Blood Diamond (good movie, I highly recommend it) and I had just read up on the subject of war diamonds so the subject was fresh on my mind, hence my use of the analogy. If caring about someones mom and whatever else is so rediculious then so be it....I am plenty rediculous in that case.

For the record, I have no problem donating, and I do donate some, as long as I know what happens to the money and I agree with what is done with it and I get what I payed for. And the whole "if you don't like it the don't donate - simple as that" logic does not work in some servers because in those cases the donators dominate....no donating means you are not competitive...and that is no fun.

bensei

If only donating enables you to be competitive, the server is build completely wrong.
In that case i'd recommend to just change the server?

The ONLY thing, player would need to know is if the server works well; If you experience a lot server side laggs and stuff. Also, i dont think the donation page says that the donations go fully into new hardware and stuff. It just says its needed to keep the server updated i think.

I mean, why do you donate in the first place?
You play the server; See it works well, and is laggless etc, So you decide to support the server with your donation.
Its just logical that the gms need to buy new hardware and stuff over time, Because NOONE with half of a brain, would donate to a server with crappy hardwares etc. :X

Raruri

#20
Quote from: BMontgomery on Oct 12, 2007, 08:41 PM
Raruri, who do you suspect is on a crusade agaist aro? I don't know of anyone. I do see your point about playing RO and talking about RO being completely and utterly pointless and a huge waiste of time (and $ for those that donate). But, it can be fun. You sure do seem to do alot of both though. I don't see anything wrong with pocketing donated money either, but lying and/or not being up front about what the money goes towards is another story.

I'm speaking in a general sense regarding the "crusade" comments, Also, I never said talking about RO/Playing RO is a waste of time, you misinterpreted my post. I'm saying bickering and arguing and flaming, and making the destruction or disimagery of a game server your goal for the next few weeks/months is. Also, how is Harken not upfront about what he spends the money on? The site merely states that he spends the money on the server, that doesn't mean he spends ALL of the money on the server bills. He also pays the staff (which technically IS spending money on the server) and he might pocket some of the money for himself. What should he post?

"I make sure the donation money goes to the server, but the extra money, I pocket myself sometimes, like heres what I bought this week  :) ~"

Then again, you never know, maybe he DOES spend it all on the server, maybe that extra cash goes into legal issues and stuff, apparently  Harken has hired lawyers and has had the server "incorporated" or w/e, to prevent anymore thievery of the donation money from staff, etc. Because apparently one of the old GMs who just mysteriously disappeared, had switched over aRO's paypal e-mail over to his own or w/e for a small while during the tRO chaos, and ran off with the donation money, or a large chunk anyway. So now if anyone is foolish enough to attempt that kind of stunt, theyre going to be sued, and probably doing a nice chunk of time locked behind bars.
So you can possibly add lawyer/legal fees into the equation of the server upkeep costs. Truth is, we dont KNOW where all of the money goes for certain, not even the staff aside from, possibly, Gene. Either way it doesn't really matter, you join a Ragnarok Online server for the game, and 99.9% of you donate for the donation rewards, so it shouldn't matter to you where ALL of the money goes atm anyway. Just as long as you know the server is being maintained.


Quote from: BMontgomery on Oct 12, 2007, 08:41 PM
But, it can be fun. You sure do seem to do alot of both though.

I'm a general contractor, I work in carpentry/renovations + I do freelance work online. I don't work every day with hourly wages, I work when I get contracted. So as you can see, some weeks I have a lot of free time.

Not that it should really anyone's business anyway, no offense.




Guest

ummm just throwing this out there
its in human nature to assume things~

Kurogasa

Quotebut seriously: WHO CARES?

qft.

People keep flaming these pos servers because some zombies keep bringing them up. If you see that youre not wanted why keep trying to force your way into peoples mind? If you really think people talking about the bad things in those servers is due to them being banned, just be lucky that they are slandering you rather than reporting that someone is making money off of the server. The part where someone starts pocketing money is the part where it really gets illegal.

Orguss

Hahaha... you do know animaro has been reported to Gravity like 200 times.. Gravity doesn't care. Here is the standard response:

"We'll look into it"

Kurogasa

More than one way to skin a cat. If people always thought so linearly Al Capone would have never been apprehended.

Let me get it clear.. i dont wish this to happen.. im just making the point that you CANT stuff some generic version of a thing down ones throat until he complys. You are Lucky to only face minor resistance.

Rbread

Consider this topic locked too.

God, stop posting the same BS into all topics.