Rune Enchance

[Merquise]

So, here it comes. Take it or leave it, folks, but this is an honest opinion of RUNE.

I have NEVER seen a bigger cesspool than RUNE. Let's be serious for a moment here. 90% of RUNE users are nothing but attention whores, want to know why? I'll gladly tell you. Because I'm an "artist" too.

Ask yourself, and I mean REALLY ask yourself...do you do what you do(art-related) for yourself? No. If you did, you wouldn't be using dA, RUNE, whatever media outlet of your choice. You do it because you enjoy the praise. RUNE is no different.

As for making "spriters"(term used VERY loosely, the sprites are God-f*cking-awful, as are the skins) feel good about themselves, allow me to rain on your parade, spriters...

...you are NOT vital to a server. An RO server can survive without custom sprites, and even moreso without custom items, look at ShinuRO. Not to mention, "customs" can be made using pre-existing KRO sprites in a non-donation function for certain headgear quests, et cetera...take the items that have NO drops or NO related quest, or "event" items and create quests, edit the stats, and voila; Custom Items that don't require coddling some 14 year old know-it-all.

Credit? For what? You edited a map file. I could do that myself. You edited a sprite file. Ditto. Hell, I should be on RUNE.

If RUNE wants to cut the whining down to a bare minimum, they should start doing what Stock Photo sites do, charge for downloads. It's only fair, the "spriters" get compensated for their "work", the Admins are making a direct purchase of sprites, everybody wins in the end. But this "give me credit for editing a pre-existing Gravity File" is absolutely ludicrous, considering that with some know-how and some resourcefulness, ANYBODY can do this s***.

And yes, notice how I said "editing a pre-existing Gravity File", because a lot of the SPR/ACT packages found on RUNE are redone KRO items. Somebody call Gravity.

Note: I am also getting sick and tired of hearing the word copyright being thrown around by people who have no idea what it means. Want to copyright something? Submit it to the required department of your region, but until you do, you own NOTHING. This goes for GRFs(though I despise the practice of Admins/Developers who do GRF clipping, but legally, you can't do anything) as well.

Edit: Tira, I'd love to know where the credit is for your friends from RUNE on your site, seeing as I can't find it anywhere. I may just be bad at navigation.

[Pandora]

Maybe I'm oblivious like JJJ, though I wouldn't say 95%, but I'd be comfortable saying 70% percent of sprites available nowaday were created post rune, and at least 50% of those only found there.

Anyhow, I understand what you mean, and back on topic it's not the first I hear of cruzro, that server has a bad track record.

[Guest]

  way off topic, merging the last few posts with the rune topic


anddd for the record i don't mean customs in general, i mean the custom sprites (excluding the ones were all you do is a color change i mean)

anyway, it seems theres no such thing as hyperbole's online ._.

[Tira]

Edit: Tira, I'd love to know where the credit is for your friends from RUNE on your site, seeing as I can't find it anywhere. I may just be bad at navigation.

http://forums.essencero.com/index.php?showtopic=267

It's been there since September 2007, so you might want to look harder.

EDIT: And as for the rest of your post:

So, here it comes. Take it or leave it, folks, but this is an honest opinion of RUNE.

I have NEVER seen a bigger cesspool than RUNE. Let's be serious for a moment here. 90% of RUNE users are nothing but attention whores, want to know why? I'll gladly tell you. Because I'm an "artist" too.

Ask yourself, and I mean REALLY ask yourself...do you do what you do(art-related) for yourself? No. If you did, you wouldn't be using dA, RUNE, whatever media outlet of your choice. You do it because you enjoy the praise. RUNE is no different.

I don't release any material on RUNE or otherwise (and I don't make sprites, period), but I still appreciate the facts that the makers of original material have basic rights. Whether or not the material in question is awe-inspiring or not is irrelevant (although there are a lot of talented spriters there) - if you make something original, you are entitled to claim ownership of it and dictate terms of use as you see fit. The end.

As for making "spriters"(term used VERY loosely, the sprites are God-f*cking-awful, as are the skins) feel good about themselves, allow me to rain on your parade, spriters...

...you are NOT vital to a server. An RO server can survive without custom sprites, and even moreso without custom items, look at ShinuRO. Not to mention, "customs" can be made using pre-existing KRO sprites in a non-donation function for certain headgear quests, et cetera...take the items that have NO drops or NO related quest, or "event" items and create quests, edit the stats, and voila; Custom Items that don't require coddling some 14 year old know-it-all.

Credit? For what? You edited a map file. I could do that myself. You edited a sprite file. Ditto. Hell, I should be on RUNE.

No one is disputing whether or not custom sprites are vital to a server, so that statement was also completely irrelevant. If you don't want to use them, don't. If you do, adhere to the policies of the artist(s) in question. It's not exactly complicated. Somewhat ironically:

I'm one of those "don't use it if you don't like it" types. Sorry to say.

Self-contradiction much?

If RUNE wants to cut the whining down to a bare minimum, they should start doing what Stock Photo sites do, charge for downloads. It's only fair, the "spriters" get compensated for their "work", the Admins are making a direct purchase of sprites, everybody wins in the end. But this "give me credit for editing a pre-existing Gravity File" is absolutely ludicrous, considering that with some know-how and some resourcefulness, ANYBODY can do this s***.

And yes, notice how I said "editing a pre-existing Gravity File", because a lot of the SPR/ACT packages found on RUNE are redone KRO items. Somebody call Gravity.

You need to read more carefully, because I've ALREADY covered this. It clearly states that any "splices" and recolours of Gravity material should not be posted under RUNE Exclusives, but should be uploaded to free downloads, as they are not original material.

Note: I am also getting sick and tired of hearing the word copyright being thrown around by people who have no idea what it means. Want to copyright something? Submit it to the required department of your region, but until you do, you own NOTHING. This goes for GRFs(though I despise the practice of Admins/Developers who do GRF clipping, but legally, you can't do anything) as well.

Wrong again.

How to Secure a Copyright
Copyright Secured Automatically upon Creation

The way in which copyright protection is secured is frequently misunderstood. No publication or registration or other action in the Copyright Office is required to secure copyright. (See following note.) There are, however, certain definite advantages to registration. See “Copyright Registration.”

Copyright is secured automatically when the work is created, and a work is “created” when it is fixed in a copy or phonorecord for the first time. “Copies” are material objects from which a work can be read or visually perceived either directly or with the aid of a machine or device, such as books, manuscripts, sheet music, film, videotape, or microfilm. “Phonorecords” are material objects embodying fixations of sounds (excluding, by statutory definition, motion picture soundtracks), such as cassette tapes, CDs, or LPs. Thus, for example, a song (the “work”) can be fixed in sheet music (“copies”) or in phonograph disks (“phonorecords”), or both. If a work is prepared over a period of time, the part of the work that is fixed on a particular date constitutes the created work as of that date.

http://www.copyright.gov

Honestly, when you go off on some huge tirade, you should at least make sure your arguments are based on fact and not random conjecture. It makes you look somewhat stupid.

[theultimateend]

There are a few things in my life I'll never understand.

The first is complaining about a service that you are in no way forced to use. If you don't like dealing with the processes at RUNE or any of the common courtesies that are asked of you there then you can do the honest and legitimate thing which is make your own. If you don't like the simple request to be active and helpful then make your own sprites and leave these people alone. Considering you are trying to equate a site for artists that is run BY an artist to your average P2P network is pretty classy as well.

Secondly...I don't understand why people who apparently have NEVER looked up the laws for a certain activity run around exclaiming their incredible lack of knowledge as if they know the super secret 'reality' behind reality.

On the internet especially unless it is explicitely stated that your service, product, image or whatever is under an open source license then it is (at least by US law) copy written to the artist. You have no right to take it, to use it, or to even edit it. As for 'tell Gravity' I hardly think that the endless source of inspiration that they are given by the community at R.U.N.E. is going to be punished. Especially since at least one breakoff of Ragnarok (not recalling which country) is actually using sprites from RUNE, one they didn't even edit at all (I think it was that white head cat if memory serves).

The following is Deviant Arts wonderful little "Copyrighting for retards" that might help expand your horizons.

Copyright and Your deviantART Submission

Here at deviantART we respect the rights of all artists and creative people worldwide and we expect our members to demonstrate an equal amount of respect and assist us in creating a beneficial and positive atmosphere for all deviantART visitors and members.

The bottom line is: Just about anything that is on this site, on the web, on TV, on CD's, on DVD's, in books & in magazines is probably copyrighted by someone.

Copyright can be a confusing territory for many people. In many cases the natural confusion over the sometimes varied circumstances surrounding copyright will lead people to rely upon rumor or myth more often than the actual legal facts which naturally confuses the matter even more.

In this document we will attempt to eliminate some of the confusion and counter many of the myths surrounding copyright. Understand that the following form is provided for informational purposes only and is intended to be used as a guide only. The availability of this document should not be construed as rendering legal or other professional advice, and this document is not a substitute for the advice of an attorney. If you require legal advice, you should seek the services of a qualified attorney.

What is Copyright Infringement?

To simplify this question, copyright infringement occurs when you do certain things with a creative work which someone else produced without first getting the proper permission.

Some examples of copyright infringement (this is only a partial listing) can include:

    * Placing a photograph or creative work online without proper permission.
    * Using a creative work commercially.
    * Adapting a creative work of one medium to another, such as making a book into a movie or a photograph into a painting.
    * Modifying or editing a creative work without proper permission.


How Can I Avoid Infringing on Someone's Copyright?

The best way to avoid infringing on the rights of another creative person is to use your skill, talent and imagination to create your own completely original work. When we use the word 'original' we don't mean that you must come up with an idea which hasn't been used before, when used in copyright matters "original" means that you created your work without referencing or deliberately copying anyone else's work during the process.

Ensure that all parts of your work, both visual and audio, are your own original creations. If you have used materials which are owned by other people or companies make certain that you have obtained proper permission or licensing for the use before you place your work online.

What Sort of Things are Copyrighted?

The easy answer to this question is that just about any creative work you might find should be considered to be copyrighted by default.

A work is not required to have a copyright statement printed on it or near it in order to be considered copyrighted so do not assume that the work is unprotected simply because you cannot see a notice written anywhere.

Also do not confuse the fact that a work is publicly available with the idea that it is public domain or free for use. Being easy to find on the internet does not affect a work's copyrighted status.

Some Cautions

    * In most cases it does not matter how much of the material you have used. Whether it's a single frame, a few moments of audio, a short clip of video or any other sampling it's still considered to be copyrighted and you still require the owner's permission for use.
    * It doesn't matter how you obtained the material, it's still considered copyrighted and you still need permission.
    * It doesn't matter whether or not you've credited the proper owner, it's still considered copyrighted and you still need permission.
    * It doesn't matter if you are not selling it or making a profit, it's still considered copyrighted and you still need permission.
    * It doesn't matter if you can find other people using things without permission, it's still considered copyrighted and you still need permission.
    * It doesn't matter if you've edited it a little bit or made a few alterations, if it's recognizable it's still considered copyrighted and you still need permission.


What Happens When You Submit Infringing Works to deviantART?

When we become aware that a deviantART submission infringes upon the copyrights of another artist, creative person or company, we will immediately delete it. This is a legal requirement which we fulfill immediately; you will not receive an advanced warning and you will not be given an opportunity to 'fix it'. Any copyright owner following the procedures in this Copyright Policy can require deviantART to remove his or her copyrighted content.

If you believe that a submission on deviantART infringes upon your copyright you may either report the submission using our internal reporting system or send us a copyright notice via email. A member of staff will review your notice and resolve the situation.

If you believe that one of your submissions was removed in error you may contact our helpdesk or otherwise file a counter notice. A member of staff will be made available to you so that the situation can be properly resolved.

If you are found to repeatedly post infringing content your account will be suspended and serious offenders will have their account banned and deactivated. If you are found deliberately misrepresenting the copyrighted work of another as your own your account will be immediately banned and deactivated.

What about "Fair Use"

"Fair Use" is the notion that some public and private uses of copyrighted works should not require the permission of a copyright owner. These circumstances are very limited, complex to analyze under the law and require the help of expert advice from a lawyer. We recommend you talk to your own lawyer if you want to know more about fair use as it applies to the work you are doing. If it turns out that it isn't fair use, you may be liable for very serious money damages.

If you take my work down am i protected from a lawsuit?

No. Even if deviantART takes an infringing work down, if you put it up on deviantART you may still be responsible for very significant damages if the copyright owner decides to sue you.

Anywho that's my little bit of input. Threads like this are a detriment to society as a whole because they let the average internet user think its ok to act like a jackass. 

[Merquise]

Wrong again.

How to Secure a Copyright
Copyright Secured Automatically upon Creation

The way in which copyright protection is secured is frequently misunderstood. No publication or registration or other action in the Copyright Office is required to secure copyright. (See following note.) There are, however, certain definite advantages to registration. See “Copyright Registration.”

Copyright is secured automatically when the work is created, and a work is “created” when it is fixed in a copy or phonorecord for the first time. “Copies” are material objects from which a work can be read or visually perceived either directly or with the aid of a machine or device, such as books, manuscripts, sheet music, film, videotape, or microfilm. “Phonorecords” are material objects embodying fixations of sounds (excluding, by statutory definition, motion picture soundtracks), such as cassette tapes, CDs, or LPs. Thus, for example, a song (the “work”) can be fixed in sheet music (“copies”) or in phonograph disks (“phonorecords”), or both. If a work is prepared over a period of time, the part of the work that is fixed on a particular date constitutes the created work as of that date.

http://www.copyright.gov

Honestly, when you go off on some huge tirade, you should at least make sure your arguments are based on fact and not random conjecture. It makes you look somewhat stupid.

Best of luck claiming "copyright" for something used for a program that is property of...wait for it...Gravity? Did you get express written permission from Gravity before you want to "copyright" something? I'd love to see you try.

Next time, don't get on your arrogant high horse without having your sh*t straight. The ultimateend, you can follow that one as well. Oh wait, did I say "theultimateend"?

I meant Usako. Next time, don't hide behind anonymity. Got something to say? Come out and say it, toots.

Gotta love it when an opinion is thrown out there, to have the soapbox brigade come and wreck it. Ah well, now I'll just leave the thread without a further reply, have a good night!

[jman]

Oh you can totally tell that's Rico.

Has that certain amount of flair to it. ;p

did you not read what he said? Gravity doesn't give a rats tooshie about the artists using sprites and redoing them, as Rico said, Gravity and LevelUp Games are actually using some of them, so they don't really care, and if you come back with 'what about the artists, don't they care about their work being stolen?'

You obviously don't sprite anything yourself. Artists would kill to get their work onto kRO and the likes, I know I would. Some of them take it as an honour that their hard work is being used for good rather than a bunch of pservers ripping them off and claiming it as their own.

Oh, and by the way, taking it to a personal level like you did with your last post was extremly lame, childish and uncalled for.

[Tira]

Actually, in technical terms, it's the sprite frames themselves that carry the copyright, since that's where all the work is - not clicking "compile .spr" at the end. Unless Gravity now own all rights to bitmap and anything created using that format, your logic is horribly flawed.

Also, wrong yet again. That isn't Usako (nor can I imagine why you'd think she'd want to hide behind an alias to counter your appalling arguments).

[Guest]

you have to realize, its something made for ragnarok online, not something made by ragnarok online

its like saying a mouse for a computer shouldn't be permitted because that mouse is made for that computer and that computer just so happens to have a copy write









PS: i'm starting to wonder if i should really use hyperbole's since no one seems to understand them 80% of the time
PPS: anyone that pronounces that "hyp-per-bowl" im going to smack you with a paper fan Dx

[Morris]

JJJ, you really shouldn't smack me. D= It's not very nice.

[ Even if I know how to say it properly, any time I read it, it just sounds cooler to think Hyper Ball-y instead of Hi-per-boe-lee. =P ]

Also, hyperboles are only effective when they're extremely exaggeration. =P

I'm hungry enough to eat the solar system. =] Hard to miss-interpret as anything but a hyperbole. Unless you consider me as being non-human. In which case, I am flattered. x3

Your momma jokes are other very good examples. =]

On this matter... have we not ended this arguement yet? xD It's clear the sprites belong to the spriters, while RUNE is nothing more than a compilation. Giving credit would be nice, but the chances of getting everyone to do it is kind of unlikely. Gravity owns Ragnarok Online, not the scripts made off of the idea of RO. JJJ sucks at hyperbolies. We get it. xD

[Guest]

  i make like a thousand tiny hyperbole's every day ^^;
oh well X.x


to all their own i guess....
either way i still like rune/ro enhance a lot ^^~

[Merquise]

Oh, and by the way, taking it to a personal level like you did with your last post was extremly lame, childish and uncalled for.

That's not personal. If I wanted to get personal, I would say something like "Tira is the last person on RMS or even the world of RO to be discussing ethics without keeping her glaring lack of her own in mind."

There. Now it went personal. Enjoy your day, everybody.

[Tira]

Ah well, now I'll just leave the thread without a further reply, have a good night!

Must try harder.

Sidenote: as distressing as such hurtful comments from random RMS nonentities regarding my moral fibre are, I will somehow find the strength to get over your vicious personal attack.

[saga]

Speaking as a Spriter/Paletter myself, I actually rather dislike(to loathing) RUNE. Then again, I don't make custom from-scratch sprites, nor do I like to use them in my servers. Any and all of my releases will definately only  be done to the public via eAthena.

The thing that finally set me to hate RUNE was when I went about getting the tools again to palette properly and efficiently: Usako moved even tools, such as the Palette converter straight to Rune as exclusives, and I couldn't even get it from eAthena. Usako didn't even SCRIPT the pallete converter, many of the original scripter's tools are still on eAthena, just not the Palette converter. I had lost the palette converter and tools I had because of a virus that forced an un-backed up reformat of my computer. This was around the time that RUNE was closed for any new memberships due to people stealing and stuff, which made it near impossible for those of us who actually wished to create our own stuff and stay away from rune to do so in any properly productive mannor. If anyone's tried to convert palettes between photoshop and RO type just using notepad would know how long and tedius this gets, expecially for at LEAST 77x12 or so palettes.

To me, RUNE does not foster growth in new Paletters/Spriters, or really a self sustaining membership of old Paletters/Spriters, it detracts, and forces them to participate in a community to even be allowed to learn or gain the tools to properly be able to do their own projects. With the stagnant, really ill-done set that everyone uses, I think this is something that should be encouraged instead of discouraged. If anything, Rune was one of the reasons for the sudden downturn in the numbers of spriters/paletters/graphic artists availiable between servers. Protecting one's own work is one thing; making tools that weren't even made by the person in question exclusives for no real reason is a completely different issue.

If RUNE was to make the tools to make your own graphics or palettes efficiently downloadable without any involvement with RUNE itself, this issue would be totally fixed. I know, for sure, that my opinion is widely felt through us backroom RO artists.

[Shinn]

Ah well, now I'll just leave the thread without a further reply, have a good night!

Must try harder.

Sidenote: as distressing as such hurtful comments from random RMS nonentities regarding my moral fibre are, I will somehow find the strength to get over your vicious personal attack.

Tira,

RMS nonentities? that's a pretty bold statement you got going on there Tira? since when did you consider your self a RMS entity? can you show us how to be an entity like you claim to be? we would all like to feel important around here like you Tira jeegollygosh! 


Sidenote: I do hope this doesn't distress you even more.. if it does, it's ok! I myself and many others I am -sure- won't care.


Cheers,
Shinn.