Project Alfheim is back

Started by bigx, Jun 16, 2023, 12:11 AM

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Blinzer

I don't know anything about how Orn dealt with people, but I don't mind him taking a more combative stance. That's always been my style, and I think it has plenty of underappreciated merits. It does more good for people than you think.



Felione

#91
Quote from: Blinzer on Mar 22, 2024, 12:07 AMI didn't read what was in pages ago, if I have to be honest with you.

Yeahhh, no. Sorry.

Also, you highly underestimate how irresponsible and how much extra work it is to have players whine about every little thing as an admin. It is completely understandable for a human being to get pissed off at someone who doesn't know what they're talking about, even if it's not necessarily the best or most reasonable reaction to have.

So, if it's okay to be pissed off at someone who doesn't know what they're talking about, then it's okay to be angry at an admin who refuses to accept they're wrong and continues communicating their mistakes as a solution? or does the admin hold some sort of seniority over the player, and players having opinions is just counter productive? :D

I know I'm being annoying, but you're defending one end of the spectrum. You just mentioned that people should be more productive, but it's also okay to be pissed off.

As for your post about Orn, his combative stance was his choice to shut down the server and hurt his playerbase because of a few bad actors. This coincides with alfheim, where they muted the server till midgame, once again, because of a few bad actors. There is nothing combative about these two.

Quote from: Metan on Mar 22, 2024, 10:39 AMYou can't be a nice guy in this environment for long, else you'll eventually get forced down in the food chain. OathRO is an unfortunate, but telling example of this: mired in such a cesspool, even a nice and reasonable man will go bonkers in ways that are unpredictable and rather harming, precisely because he's been overly indulgent. You could argue that he (Orn) exaggerated in his stance, and I wouldn't be one to argue about this only because I wasn't there to see it; but it is hard to attack the way he handled things in itself because it was a defense mechanism that may have been only too necessary, and he did it for free, for Heaven's sake.

Orn took everything far too personally, and his problem was his view of HIS project, and those who disagreed with that view, were told to leave. Fortunately, this is a fair choice: Why stay where you're not welcome? or rather, why stay when the boss refuses to listen? Regardless, once those few who disagreed left, he then turned that anger unto his community, just poking at anyone who had an opinion which differed from his. You were not allowed to have an opinion, or you would be ridiculed, because he just couldn't handle an opinion.

You also keep mentioning he did it for "free". I assure you, his bank account would disagree with you.

One more thing, and I know this isn't fair, but I won't respond to any orn things anymore, because the subject is alfheim. I'm sorry if this annoys anyone.

Blinzer

Quote from: Felione on Mar 22, 2024, 12:35 PMthen it's okay to be angry at an admin who refuses to accept they're wrong and continues communicating their mistakes as a solution? or does the admin hold some sort of seniority over the player

I know I'm being annoying, but you're defending one end of the spectrum. You just mentioned that people should be more productive, but it's also okay to be pissed off.


Yeah, I did say that. Anyone who has tried to ever become good at anything knows exactly what part anger and frustration plays in the process, and it's a significant one. Ostracizing and isolating the emotion is extremely naive.

As an artist you are already in a constant battle against your own creation, without the extra weight of having to carry all of the weight of other people and what they dump on you. Even if you're right, you're unreasonable in your expectations for an admin to play it perfectly in every single regard. Only god himself is as talented as you are trying to lead on.

The price you demand is far too high, you want it all. And you're doing without even really giving anything in return. To me, that's a red flag.

QuoteAs for your post about Orn, his combative stance was his choice to shut down the server and hurt his playerbase because of a few bad actors. This coincides with alfheim, where they muted the server till midgame, once again, because of a few bad actors. There is nothing combative about these two.


No... don't repurpose what I said, that's toxic. You know damn well I was referring to previous comment:

QuoteTake Return to Morroc for example: He literally hated his community for wanting things changed or asking for exp events.

This trend of taking what someone says and deciding what you meant for them needs to stop, it's super bad.

You were insinuating that he was combative and vocal about his opinions on his design and changes on his game with his players. And you also provided me additional evidence that my read on your initial post is right, in your current post:

QuoteOrn took everything far too personally, and his problem was his view of HIS project, and those who disagreed with that view, were told to leave. Fortunately, this is a fair choice: Why stay where you're not welcome? or rather, why stay when the boss refuses to listen? Regardless, once those few who disagreed left, he then turned that anger unto his community, just poking at anyone who had an opinion which differed from his. You were not allowed to have an opinion, or you would be ridiculed, because he just couldn't handle an opinion.

Nah. This seems like a very efficient way to get people to stop bugging you. Sure... it doesn't prove anything about what's right or wrong, but I guess you never considered that to him, he doesn't care who's right or wrong. He just doesn't want to deal with the attitude, and that is the quickest way of getting you off him. Attitude being the key word.

I can agree he's not perfect, he's an acquaintance of mine and I see his faults for what they are. You're going way overboard. I don't know who taught you that reading between the lines is good, but let me give you a different perspective.

It's not.



ADM Ornstein

Quote from: Felione on Mar 21, 2024, 11:09 PMTake Return to Morroc for example: He literally hated his community for wanting things changed or asking for exp events. That is not an example of someone who wants to handle a community, but rather, get praise from what little support he can. I have my opinion on why he really closed things up, but I'm almost certain he is not telling us everything, or rather, conveniently skewing it.

Saying I hated my community for asking for changes and asking for exp events is quite a surprise. When I turned 32 I made 24h of 3.2x exp for example...it was a running joke in discord that people would ask for exp events for random stuff like payment day, I ate sushi that weekend or whatever else...with a strong denial by me.

Did you experience these first hand or taken it in account from people somewhere else? You can ask that yourself to the players who were there.

Whatever you or someone else calls PRM and its closure, I don't really care. Everyone will call PRM a cashgrab while ignoring the amount of work and the 100% cosmetic cash shop (while ingame there were over 350 costumes, and ALL GARMENTS were achievement rewards, no exceptions).

I'd recommend checking and asking me yourself before going after narratives. Discord: admornstein
Working again on cool stuff for people tired of the old stuff.

Luna Obscura:  www.youtube.com/@ProjectWorkshopRO

This time invite only. :P

ghrim987

Being on the server for a better part of 2 years I can't really agree with some of the accusations thrown around here.

Quote from: FelioneYou also seem to have all the answers to what the people in this community want, so perhaps you have something valuable to say regarding this unfortunate incident which happens to be poor management, poor social skills, lack of community understanding and the benefit it has, and most importantly, communication with said community.
.....
....
Why? because they are PART of the community, they are not the overlords, and they treat everyone equally, including any suck ups, which most recently Muh exhibited. Events are plentiful and actually engage everyone, making it almost pointless to level, when you can just do events all your ro life if that is the choice you decide to make. Their updates involve suggestions and are always within reason, making the experience ENJOYABLE, not something they ENvISION their server should be, but rather, what makes the PLAYERS happy.

He was always quite open and friendly, talked daily with everyone on discord and even engaged in discussions about his design philosophy.. explaining things carefully for people to comprehend his intentions.

However since a lot of bad actors took it as an advantage to mentally drain him off his passion and motivation to work on the server he pretty much stopped interacting on such a personal level, which is a shame but understandable.

Plenty of community suggestions got added in over time.. heck even the last patch implemented dozens of suggestions left by the people on discord.

I had a blast on this server and still enjoy playing daily.
It's really wild our experience is so vastly different.
Not sure how long you've been around or how long you played on PA, but if the management isn't to your liking it's understandable you feel so negatively.. we players either suck it up and deal with it or it aligns with our interests.

Quote from: Felione on Mar 22, 2024, 12:35 PMSo, if it's okay to be pissed off at someone who doesn't know what they're talking about, then it's okay to be angry at an admin who refuses to accept they're wrong and continues communicating their mistakes as a solution? or does the admin hold some sort of seniority over the player, and players having opinions is just counter productive?

Damn you have balls to straight up say an admin is wrong in how they are running their server.
Your last argument however is quite fragile, even I can admit that not everything I utter as an opinion or idea or suggestion would be healthy for the server.
RO players often blurt out their genius mind stroke of the moment without considering all the things that would be impacted by it, so yes.. sometimes players having an opinion is counter productive.

Quote from: Felione on Mar 22, 2024, 12:35 PMAs for your post about Orn, his combative stance was his choice to shut down the server and hurt his playerbase because of a few bad actors. This coincides with alfheim, where they muted the server till midgame, once again, because of a few bad actors. There is nothing combative about these two.

Oh, I remember you now.
You were the person who quit the server because the main chat was locked behind level 50 and made a big deal about it, even after Charlie explained the reasoning behind it.. didn't it turn out to be an oversight? And I believe it got fixed already? Afaik it was a leftover "security bandaid" for spam bots and toxic people when the server had an incredibly high playerpeak.

I am sorry you had such a traumatic experience on the server but I don't quite understand how people find it in their willpower to return posting in this topic to spread negativity after they have already long quit...

Gulielmus

#95
Quote from: ghrim987 on Mar 22, 2024, 06:59 PMOh, I remember you now.
You were the person who quit the server because the main chat was locked behind level 50 and made a big deal about it, even after Charlie explained the reasoning behind it.. didn't it turn out to be an oversight? And I believe it got fixed already? Afaik it was a leftover "security bandaid" for spam bots and toxic people when the server had an incredibly high playerpeak.

I am sorry you had such a traumatic experience on the server but I don't quite understand how people find it in their willpower to return posting in this topic to spread negativity after they have already long quit...

I'm also curious as you, why s/he is still here.

Xellie

Quote from: Gulielmus on Mar 22, 2024, 09:47 PMI'm also curious as you, why s/he is still here.

on their 19th account no less
Quote from: Aurus on Feb 13, 2024, 07:44 PMp.s. you are such a bad and toxic player I hope to never see you or your guild again


yC

#97
For the first time I feel I have to agree with Blinzer that we should appreciate RO servers more and stop the hate and negativity.

Quote from: Blinzer on Mar 19, 2024, 11:39 AMRO players are so negative lol.

If a server is operating fine, with minimal bug and non-corrupt, what's not to like?  Keep in mind it is a free service.  If you don't like the balancing or the direction it is going, don't force yourself into it because it will end up in pain and more hate.  You can leave it alone or find somewhere else you like.  It definitely isn't the only server in town.

Rather than going on all hate mode and try everything to kill the server, you can even try to run your own server if you think you can do a better job and see how far it go.

I am not talking about this particular server or any server or to anyone.  Just making a general statement regarding the state of the community being too negative sometimes.

For one successful server there are 100 that fails, treat it as if someone won the lottery if that will make you feel better.  Do we hate the one winning?  Well maybe .. sometimes .. nooo but we don't try to ruin their life and wish them die right?  Don't be so negative and we will be a happier community.

Do you think when someone start a server, they know how much they will gain or loss from the start?  Nobody will estimate that because projection will always fail, I can tell you 50% of the success of a server is based on luck (or uncontrollable factors).  But server owners are the ones willing to take a chance, put in the efforts to make their dream server alive.  Whatever happen after is unpredictable.

One of the unpredictable is the shape of the community.  Either the server attract friendly lovely folks or become the base of toxic haters is not the fault of the server and is beyond anyone's control.  This is a hot issue, it often take the most energy to deal with on top of the day to day issue arise in a server.   

Please understand you are not the only one very important player of a server and must be served first.  You might be one of the (toxic or non-toxic) players that have an issue, contacted (harassed or blamed) the staff and waiting for a response.  To the friendly folks, I am sure staying with a positive attitude will make the server staff feel the community is worth their time.  To the haters, the server do not owe you anything and you are free to quit.

If we don't re-think our attitude toward servers/staff, start to be more considerate and appreciate the work that was put in.  As well as the work put into the free emulators such as eAthena, rAthena and Hercules to keep these projects alive and updated in the last 20+ years.  YOU will be the one left to run a server, if your answer is "hell no" then you realize how much damage has been done.   

Of course the same goes around, if server treat player like trash, we will have no players.  Then we will all left with the official servers.

Xellie

Quote from: yC on Mar 22, 2024, 11:41 PMFor the first time I feel I have to agree with Blinzer that we should appreciate RO servers more and stop the hate and negativity.

If a server is operating fine, with minimal bug and non-corrupt, what's not to like?  Keep in mind it is a free service.  If you don't like the balancing or the direction it is going, don't force yourself into it because it will end up in pain and more hate.  You can leave it alone or find somewhere else you like.  It definitely isn't the only server in town.

Rather than going on all hate mode and try everything to kill the server, you can even try to run your own server if you think you can do a better job and see how far it go.

I am not talking about this particular server or any server or to anyone.  Just making a general statement regarding the state of the community being too negative sometimes.

For one successful server there are 100 that fails, treat it as if someone won the lottery if that will make you feel better.  Do we hate the one winning?  Well maybe .. sometimes .. nooo but we don't try to ruin their life and wish them die right?  Don't be so negative and we will be a happier community.

Do you think when someone start a server, they know how much they will gain or loss from the start?  Nobody will estimate that because projection will always fail, I can tell you 50% of the success of a server is based on luck (or uncontrollable factors).  But server owners are the ones willing to take a chance, put in the efforts to make their dream server alive.  Whatever happen after is unpredictable.

One of the unpredictable is the shape of the community.  Either the server attract friendly lovely folks or become the base of toxic haters is not the fault of the server and is beyond anyone's control.  This is a hot issue, it often take the most energy to deal with on top of the day to day issue arise in a server.   

Please understand you are not the only one very important player of a server and must be served first.  You might be one of the (toxic or non-toxic) players that have an issue, contacted (harassed or blamed) the staff and waiting for a response.  To the friendly folks, I am sure staying with a positive attitude will make the server staff feel the community is worth their time.  To the haters, the server do not owe you anything and you are free to quit.

If we don't re-think our attitude toward servers/staff, start to be more considerate and appreciate the work that was put in.  As well as the work put into the free emulators such as eAthena, rAthena and Hercules to keep these projects alive and updated in the last 20+ years.  YOU will be the one left to run a server, if your answer is "hell no" then you realize how much damage has been done.

Of course the same goes around, if server treat player like trash, we will have no players.  Then we will all left with the official server.



So much truth here.
Quote from: Aurus on Feb 13, 2024, 07:44 PMp.s. you are such a bad and toxic player I hope to never see you or your guild again


Playtester

You might think that RO players are all negative, but the truth is that all positive RO players just enjoy the game and won't bother posting here (or anywhere really).

I also think it's a misconception that server owners (or game developers in general) should always cater to the players. Sometimes, you just want to make your own vision and it doesn't really matter much to you if the majority wants it or not. It's basically just "Here I made this thing I personally want to play and if you coincidentally like the same thing, feel free to enjoy it too".

As a consumer the only thing you're entitled to is to decide whether you want to consume the product or not. Of course you can always give suggestions, but these should just help the creator see things they didn't consider for their vision and not force them to change their vision.

Metan

#100
Quote from: Playtester on Mar 23, 2024, 05:13 AMYou might think that RO players are all negative, but the truth is that all positive RO players just enjoy the game and won't bother posting here (or anywhere really).
I think it's about the subject, rather than the place(s). I believe I'm a positive kind of player in that I'm aware my suggestions are just suggestions and my opinions are just opinions, and I understand that admins have their own visions and ways of handling things (which I may my own perspective on -- but again, an opinion), but here I am.
Usually, people don't talk about things that are going well, and only feel the need to speak out when something is wrong; it's similar to how news companies would soon be out of business if they changed their approach and published news like "everything's fine," which naturally leads to a lot of problems, including this perception that we're negative in general. In truth, it's just like you said: people who are content are simply playing the game.

Quote from: Playtester on Mar 23, 2024, 05:13 AMI also think it's a misconception that server owners (or game developers in general) should always cater to the players. Sometimes, you just want to make your own vision and it doesn't really matter much to you if the majority wants it or not. It's basically just "Here I made this thing I personally want to play and if you coincidentally like the same thing, feel free to enjoy it too".

As a consumer the only thing you're entitled to is to decide whether you want to consume the product or not. Of course you can always give suggestions, but these should just help the creator see things they didn't consider for their vision and not force them to change their vision.
Definitely. Sometimes I wonder if this isn't a byproduct of people getting so addicted to the idea of democracy that they think everything around them ought to work as such, including places that are obviously not democratic (like a RO server, which often works like "my way or the highway"), which leads to people getting seriously upset that their ideas, which they're so sure are magnificent, are not heard. I wouldn't be surprised if it turned out like some cultural/political explanation like this is the key, because the truth is that this is not unique to RO. I've seen it only too much over the internet.

That said, I agree with yC and Blitzen. People (not just Felione, but the general sort who take their own takes to another degree) seriously need to sit down, chill and think what exactly in the world they're doing, acting like that.

Felione

Quote from: Metan on Mar 23, 2024, 09:30 AMThat said, I agree with yC and Blitzen. People (not just Felione, but the general sort who take their own takes to another degree) seriously need to sit down, chill and think what exactly in the world they're doing, acting like that.

I'm informing people of mistakes and issues surrounding a problem. I wouldn't really call that democratic. I also provided proven solutions through comparison. What exactly am I doing wrong on a forum that discusses servers where you are allowed to state your own opinion? I don't have to think about anything but my own opinion of a product I chose to consume for a time before I dropped it. No one's feelings is a part of this, nor is defending the idea that it's difficult to start a server for "free". It is a risk, which comes with obvious consequences. The way you act as an admin reflects if people will stay, or people will go, and I believe people need to be informed of someone's discretion, observe it themselves, and make a decision. If I was the sole person who dictated whether someone plays a server, I would never type a word on this forum, but the beauty of being an individual, is that I can write a novel of terrible and negative things, and people could simply ignore it. I think the reason why anything I say bothers anyone, is because it's very direct and to the point. If any issue exists, it needs to be pointed out, or nothing will be fixed. It's that simple. If it's not fixed? well, the appropriate actions are taken by a playerbase.

My main issue with server owners continuing the way they do, is, it leads to failure, and unfortunately, the only victims are the PLAYERS who wasted their time, something MONEY can't buy, on a person's poor decisive skills. If you have a vision of something, giving the players small amounts of compassion wouldn't hurt you or your vision, but some people are just childish and refuse to see anything else. I know this from experience, because I'm a writer, and after showing my work to people, I was given advice I thought was terrible, and some I thought were good. Did I sulk in a corner? did I put my foot down and declare war on ideas? no. I simply adapted a massive change, which forced me to rewrite hundreds of hours of text, so that it was more presentable towards a certain audience, WHILE keeping things as close to my vision as I could.

If I, someone with a low self-esteem, who is normally rather fragile, can take the advice of people who dislike my work, a server owner can make a consideration for their donations. I personally don't get it. This type of game is dead without a community, so why on earth would you grudge over your community's advice and quite possibly their needs to stay? it's mind boggling that I have to write this, like it needed to be explained.

Once again, the example is MUHRO, a server which had 20 players (unsure of that number actually, might have been 40+) , suddenly got about 200 players, and instead of keeping to their VISION, they asked the community, they TALKED with the community, they DISCUSSED SOLUTIONS with the community, and even today, they are COMMUNITY ORIENTED. Many changes were made for the sake of new players, and yes, the old ones didn't like it, but they were minor changes, so guess what happened? yes, yes, they stayed, that's correct. They retained their old community, while adapting a new one, with fresh ideas. Yes, I'm sure to them it was a traumatic time reading all the terrible suggestions, and watching people argue over them, but they arrived with a compromise for everyone. When there was an event people disliked and complained about, they were SUPER annoyed at the community, specifically ME I'm sure, for pointing out how awful it felt, but instead of banning me and getting rid of me, they kept me, they gave me an event I LOVE, and PEOPLE love, and now everything is fine and dandy. See how that works? the reason why I'm so loyal to them is because I gave them the HARDEST TIME OF THEIR LIVES pointing out issues with a change they might have, and I argued my points with ignorant people, so it was quite toxic, but they were BOTH mature enough to opt for a SOLUTION, without sulking that I'm a terrible person who deserved to be banned. This is how you run a server. It's not a feelings factory for someone's mental health, it is a business, filled with customers RUNNING THE BUSINESS on the side, and until server owners understand this gimmick, we're going to have a lot of dead servers.

I am doing nothing wrong, and everyone I speak about, deserves to be spoken about in such a way, unless proven otherwise. Like all of you, I want something great, but without great thinking, it will not happen. As an Admin, just love your community, and show them they're worth your time investment, so they can invest their time in you, and for the love of god, stop complicating the process.

I know this was long, but thank you for reading.
  • x 1

ghrim987

#102
Quote from: Felione on Mar 23, 2024, 12:36 PMMy main issue with server owners continuing the way they do, is, it leads to failure, and unfortunately, the only victims are the PLAYERS who wasted their time, something MONEY can't buy, on a person's poor decisive skills. If you have a vision of something, giving the players small amounts of compassion wouldn't hurt you or your vision, but some people are just childish and refuse to see anything else. I know this from experience, because I'm a writer, and after showing my work to people, I was given advice I thought was terrible, and some I thought were good. Did I sulk in a corner? did I put my foot down and declare war on ideas? no. I simply adapted a massive change, which forced me to rewrite hundreds of hours of text, so that it was more presentable towards a certain audience, WHILE keeping things as close to my vision as I could.

Did you approach people with the intent of getting advice? Did you think your work had room for improvement but couldn't put your finger on what's lacking?
There is a fine line with going out of your way to ask for feedback and advice and having it shoved down your throat.

There is another issue when only a small fraction of the playerbase even uses discord.
You'll never have a clear view if your suggestions or criticism will lead to changes that flips another part of the community off completely.

Recently people were -screeching- daily about L4L (leech for loot) in our individual loot dungeons, so naturally to adress the constant b**** we received adjustments that toned down L4L but now people can't multi client on said maps anymore.. guess what? It seems to be causing even more screeching than before, because now it's harder to get a party going in the first place.

To clarify the point I am trying to make:
Something that some people make out to be a huge deal is a non-issue for many others, similar to how the chat restriction was to you.
There were many options you could've chosen:
A) play for 2 hours to reach the level needed to chat away
B) go to town and chat away with people if it's that important to you
C) join a guild and chat away, plenty of welcoming ones for new people
D) talk on discord while playing until you get to the point

But somehow that non-issue snowballed into all of this?

Quote from: Felione on Mar 23, 2024, 12:36 PMIf I, someone with a low self-esteem, who is normally rather fragile, can take the advice of people who dislike my work, a server owner can make a consideration for their donations. I personally don't get it. This type of game is dead without a community, so why on earth would you grudge over your community's advice and quite possibly their needs to stay? it's mind boggling that I have to write this, like it needed to be explained.

Are we still talking about PA at this point?
As I've mentioned before, content gets adjusted via player feedback and player suggestions get implemented steadily.

I often see people (that quit) asking for PA 2.0 with a fresh server reset, so apparently the server can't be as bad as you make it out to be?

I think some people just expect too much out of the small dev team PA has, I am surprised we get big updates as frequently as we do honestly.

Metan

#103
Quote from: Felione on Mar 23, 2024, 12:36 PMI'm informing people of mistakes and issues surrounding a problem. I wouldn't really call that democratic. I also provided proven solutions through comparison. What exactly am I doing wrong on a forum that discusses servers where you are allowed to state your own opinion? I don't have to think about anything but my own opinion of a product I chose to consume for a time before I dropped it. No one's feelings is a part of this, nor is defending the idea that it's difficult to start a server for "free". It is a risk, which comes with obvious consequences. The way you act as an admin reflects if people will stay, or people will go, and I believe people need to be informed of someone's discretion, observe it themselves, and make a decision. If I was the sole person who dictated whether someone plays a server, I would never type a word on this forum, but the beauty of being an individual, is that I can write a novel of terrible and negative things, and people could simply ignore it. I think the reason why anything I say bothers anyone, is because it's very direct and to the point. If any issue exists, it needs to be pointed out, or nothing will be fixed. It's that simple. If it's not fixed? well, the appropriate actions are taken by a playerbase.

My main issue with server owners continuing the way they do, is, it leads to failure, and unfortunately, the only victims are the PLAYERS who wasted their time, something MONEY can't buy, on a person's poor decisive skills. If you have a vision of something, giving the players small amounts of compassion wouldn't hurt you or your vision, but some people are just childish and refuse to see anything else. I know this from experience, because I'm a writer, and after showing my work to people, I was given advice I thought was terrible, and some I thought were good. Did I sulk in a corner? did I put my foot down and declare war on ideas? no. I simply adapted a massive change, which forced me to rewrite hundreds of hours of text, so that it was more presentable towards a certain audience, WHILE keeping things as close to my vision as I could.

If I, someone with a low self-esteem, who is normally rather fragile, can take the advice of people who dislike my work, a server owner can make a consideration for their donations. I personally don't get it. This type of game is dead without a community, so why on earth would you grudge over your community's advice and quite possibly their needs to stay? it's mind boggling that I have to write this, like it needed to be explained.
Oh please, this was never about whether you're allowed to state your mind in a public forum, so don't twist it like that. It's the assumption that admins out there not just ought to, but have to listen to inputs lest they be labeled a close-minded brute who hold their community in low esteem.

You think your ideas are sound and shoving them aside will but smother a great potential, or exacerbate an ongoing mistake? Now there's something GMs hear every day; presenting your stuff shouldn't completely influence anybody at a first glance unless it's disarmingly great. Taking this to mind, why should one's suggestions prevail amidst all others just because they have been suggested?

Moreover, I believe your idea that people in a position of power such as an admin should be more open-minded in the sense of what you're describing, and expecting, is rather counterintuitive, and potentially self-destructive. Not that it'll drive you mad or something, but in that it will degrade the original objective which you once envisioned. Where is the line that dictates at which point a server admin should reconsider their vision and instead open up to what third people have to say? And, past this point, where is the line that defines whether your idea still breathes, whether it hasn't been forever disfigured by the wheels of change? These are not so clear that one can talk about them objectively, yet they're so present that it would be a blunder to not consider them. The ego is not to be isolated, but fostered. As a writer yourself, this piece of wisdom should have long been ingrained deep into your thinking. If you cater too much to the public, your original work perishes, and it turns out that you're no longer presenting your feelings and thoughts through art, you're merely providing entertainment made cheap to be as inclusive to external ideas as possible. You essentially become the public's intellectual b****. Though I also happen to speak as a writer myself, this idea applies to all things in life where you're supposed to take a stance in the name of something or someones, and, to a less extent (you're not exactly developing a game from scratch, but some of it is still there), managing a RO server.

Besides, most of us have been playing RO for decades, and as we get older, ideas solidify, the mind loses its fluidity and adaptability, and we just stick to what we think is right, refined or degraded by decades of living. It's just natural. I think people often forget this part because it may be hard to imagine 30+ or even 40+ yo people playing games, it's usually seen as a young people's kind of thing, but a good chunk of the community, to not say the majority, is just that old, so this is worth stating.

I honestly didn't and won't read the last paragraphs because the moment someone begins to capitalize words in the middle of a sentence, it feels like they're screaming at the reader, and that behavior marks the death of reason. Overall, you don't strike me as someone who usually suggests what you think is a good idea, but more like someone who's hellbent to force a hot potato down my throat, and damn if I refuse.

EDIT: TBH, I think this thread has run its course a long time ago, even before this discussion. Is this even about PA anymore? lol

Myxannia

Quote from: Blinzer on Mar 19, 2024, 11:39 AMRO players are so negative lol.

Not negative, just cynical. RO has become so niche that everyone has their own idea of what it should be. The game has become so decentralized over the years, people have developed their own "versions" of RO in their minds.