Privacy? Are GMs entitled to it as well?

[Thorin]

and is that a bad thing Reheal......

[Rehael]

and is that a bad thing Reheal......

Yep it's evil; should be as bad as the 7 sins :/

[Mewi]

Mewi, i like your rules except for #2 obviously becuase WoE is the bet aspect of RO. GMs should just follow the basic rules while WoEing like #3 and GMs should never run guilds (tho what decent GM has time to). And in large servers where everyone knows your legits name i'd advise not to WoE on an empbreaking class....

It all comes down to the Admins trust in his GMs whether or not he excludes them from WoE....but if he doen't that just shows he does't have complete trust in the legitness of his GMs.

No that just shows how some of you gms & admins want to play,have fun at WoE with your legitness ~~~~ yummy.

The simplest rule a GM/Owner SHOULD FOLLOW

Trust No One,  always ask questions,  always check the logs.

[Rehael]

Mewi, i like your rules except for #2 obviously becuase WoE is the bet aspect of RO. GMs should just follow the basic rules while WoEing like #3 and GMs should never run guilds (tho what decent GM has time to). And in large servers where everyone knows your legits name i'd advise not to WoE on an empbreaking class....

It all comes down to the Admins trust in his GMs whether or not he excludes them from WoE....but if he doen't that just shows he does't have complete trust in the legitness of his GMs.

No that just shows how some of you gms & admins want to play,have fun at WoE with your legitness ~~~~ yummy.

The simplest rule a GM/Owner SHOULD FOLLOW

Trust No One,  always ask questions,  always check the logs.

Amen to your wise words little girl.

[Mewi]

Amen to your wise words little girl.

Em... little?  I'm 23 years old ;\

[Rehael]

Amen to your wise words little girl.

Em... little?  I'm 23 years old ;\

oh sowwy; you give a young impression ;p.
but i'm still older than so does that justify my calling you a lily girl x) ?

[Descent]

Rehael, seriously...I pity anybody who has the unfortunate experience of being on your staff and server with the way you talk down to people. :X

@ GM Thorin: No, it's not a bad thing. I'm just going to get into the habit of ignoring Rehael's posts from this point onward.

@ Mewi: That step is unnecessary if you have quality staff members employed. :X

[Rehael]

Rehael, seriously...I pity anybody who has the unfortunate experience of being on your staff and server with the way you talk down to people. :X

@ GM Thorin: No, it's not a bad thing. I'm just going to get into the habit of ignoring Rehael's posts from this point onward.

Ignoring =/= Proving one's point.
How did you get to the conclusion that i wouldn't respect other staff members ?

[Descent]

Ignoring =/= Proving one's point.
How did you get to the conclusion that i wouldn't respect other staff members ?

I don't know. Probably around the time you stopped respecting people who don't share the same opinion as you do.

Good luck with ValiantRO regardless. Unlike you, I can at least deal with opposing parties with something called class.

[Rehael]

Ignoring =/= Proving one's point.
How did you get to the conclusion that i wouldn't respect other staff members ?

I don't know. Probably around the time you stopped respecting people who don't share the same opinion as you do.

Good luck with ValiantRO regardless. Unlike you, I can at least deal with opposing parties with something called class.

Class doesn't seem to get you that far
but anyway leaving that aside. let's get back to topic.
I hope some PLAYERS Will also share their mind on this.

[Skotlex]

Sometimes you just have to stop GMs from having a legit simply because players will create rumours which can do more damage to the server than any real corruption does :< Kinda unfair to GMs, really.

EDIT: And this can go so far, I have seen more than once reviews in RMS talking about "the GMs" in MouRO, yet they don't realize that from the get-go it is advertised that there are no GMs? They just automatically assume that some regulars in there that know well the server and help others are GMs. If they can assume this, you know just how much they will assume throughout time...

[GM Faith]

Sometimes you just have to stop GMs from having a legit simply because players will create rumours which can do more damage to the server than any real corruption does :< Kinda unfair to GMs, really.

EDIT: And this can go so far, I have seen more than once reviews in RMS talking about "the GMs" in MouRO, yet they don't realize that from the get-go it is advertised that there are no GMs? They just automatically assume that some regulars in there that know well the server and help others are GMs. If they can assume this, you know just how much they will assume throughout time...

Precisely my sentiments.

I generally advise our GMs not to get involved with competitive play at all, rumours cause far more damage than its worth.

There will always be rumours, but there's no point in fueling the fire 

[Mewi]

Rehael, seriously...I pity anybody who has the unfortunate experience of being on your staff and server with the way you talk down to people. :X

@ GM Thorin: No, it's not a bad thing. I'm just going to get into the habit of ignoring Rehael's posts from this point onward.

@ Mewi: That step is unnecessary if you have quality staff members employed. :X

I do not make unnecessary 'steps' o.O  All rules I suggest have a reason.  Even good uncorrupt GMs can end up being corrupt, no matter WHO you hire, it is always a possibility and with possibilities you need protocols and regulations.

[Lore]

on a crappily made MMORPG

oh that hurts.

[Descent]

Mewi's been on a ton of servers where staff either turned over, ended up turning or were corrupt the entire time, or showed favoritism, etc. Some people call it paranoia, but she's right. As is Faith.

The wisest thing I've seen yet on this thread is, "trust no one".

I think most administrators, new ones at least, have their power trip phase, then it fizzles out. Once that's done and over with in my eyes, as I've been witness to it happening countless times myself, *those* admins turn out to be extremely wonderful. If the administrator doesn't hawk their logs, question their staff to make sure everyone's on the same page, and gather feedback from community members for evaluations, then as a player, I simply refuse to play on the server.

I myself personally review all logs nightly and question my GM's anytime something even minor comes up as a red flag in my eyes. I've dealt with corruption, I've done the whole favoritism phase, and I'm so over it all. If people are still power tripping over Ragnarok in 2008, then shame on them. It's a game for crying out loud. Just play, it's not necessary to cheat. And to those who DO cheat, oh, I bet you feel SO great about yourself. You're hardcore on a crappily made MMORPG where the only people who know you are the people you play with. You're all so badass, I don't know what to do with myself. Give me a break.

I've dealt with the same thing as Mewi, and probably you and every other admin who runs their own server who used to be a player. I didn't just pop up with an idea in my head to make a server, I made one because I got tired of playing corrupt ones where the staff plays favourites, changes rules to benefit themselves and themselves only, use donation money purely to fund their drug habits, whatever. I made my server because I knew it was the only way I could probably make a difference, rather than spend the same song and dance of calling out a corrupt staffer and probably getting banned over it.

My view is that the paranoia and extremist views(Rehael?!) are only going to add to the stress of it all. I have the fullest of trust in both my sub-Admins and my GM, they have given me reasons to do so. Maybe I'm just the exception of the "don't trust anybody" rule, but that's also because this isn't my first server as a member of staff, I know logs, but to top it off: I know my staff.

I check the logs as well, though it tells me the same thing every time: Nothing's going on. Hence my usage of trust. It also helps to know the people on your staff very well, too. I don't exactly want to hire a new staffer for that simple fact. We are all in constant contact via MSN, the Staff Discussion sub-forum of our server forum, PMs, E-mails, and we all have each other's phone numbers.

I guess it's just a major difference in opinion. I never saw a problem with playing a legit, nor do I see one with any of my staff(those that choose to do so. One refuses to), so I really fail to understand how some people can call those that do "bad admins" or "bad staff". Nor do I think that anybody who even remotely gets close to playing the game can be labeled corrupt, bad experience or not. It's that generalization that gives all of us a bad name.