How do a server ends? [OathRO]

[Xellie]

I feel so genuinely sad for the players and staff there (I know I've had choice words about OathRO, but that was because Oathkeeper was promoting harassment against me); the loss of a server/community/home is always a horrible thing. And everyone could see that OathRO was a passionate project.

I hope you're able to get everything you need to get the community there back together, and guide them toward being better oranges.

Good luck with it! May something amazing be reborn out of the ashes.

[felixvu]

That is sad, but at least those are things that can be obtained again. RO players are no strangers starting a server from new again.

But while it is a 1x server primarily, it is faster to level up than a 1x server. If I can make a level 99 baby mage in 16 days, I'm sure people will manage.


We'd probably do some opening package/event to help people get back on their feet again, too.

ill rejoin if its up, only if u unban me on discord 

[OldPoring]

What passions. Especially noteworthy are the death threats, I'm shocked.

I just played on the server as a solo player and almost saved up zeny for "Corruptor Card"

In this case, I can only blame myself "Why did you wasted time on the x1 server, you old fool?? It would be better to watch 100 movies or TV series".

In any case, thank you for this experience once again.

[Hatrask]

That is sad, but at least those are things that can be obtained again. RO players are no strangers starting a server from new again.

But while it is a 1x server primarily, it is faster to level up than a 1x server. If I can make a level 99 baby mage in 16 days, I'm sure people will manage.


We'd probably do some opening package/event to help people get back on their feet again, too.

Your indifference towards player data is as bad as what Oath did. Reading this made me so sick I had to register this account just to state that. People's time is a finite currency, you should have at least three backups of their data. Also, even though the server had custom exp rates, drop rates were still pretty miserable.

[wLink]

It's not like player data got lost due to sloppiness, Oathkeeper deleted it. Dastgir should have backed it up but it's easier to assess this now with hindsight.

[Sairek Ceareste]

Your indifference towards player data is as bad as what Oath did. Reading this made me so sick I had to register this account just to state that. People's time is a finite currency, you should have at least three backups of their data. Also, even though the server had custom exp rates, drop rates were still pretty miserable.

You equate people losing their items and characters in a video game to that of someone sabotaging a 7 year friendship, back charging several staff with what is the equivalent to wage fraud, and sabotaging that of the community to me saying "It's sad, but at least that stuff can be regained over time." Excuse me?
Do you think I didn't lose stuff either? I lost my own characters and stuff as well -- as well as had 14 months of my free labor effectively sabotaged. Labour where I would sometimes work 18 hours day after day, just trying to make the experience that little bit better for people rather than actually getting to play the game, all in an effort to make the community that much more clean, the environment that little bit more fair, the server a little bit more fun. Even with restarting the server, I know it's not going to reach the same glory it once did. Trust has been damaged and that is ridiculously hard to build back, and some people just won't want to start again. So how about you stop putting words in my mouth and cut the hypocrisy right there, yes?

What I said wasn't "indifference" at peoples' stuff being lost. It was "We lost what we had, but it's a miracle we can at least start again and begin anew" because that opportunity was potentially just a handful of seconds away from being wiped too.
I'd strongly suggest for you to get your priorities straight. Ragnarok is a video game. What Oathkeeper did reached beyond the boundaries of the video game. His actions have genuinely damaged peoples' lives and put people in financial jeopardy. I can't even get the medical help I need right now because he froze my pay pal account thanks to this fraudulent charge back claim. And you want to claim I am as bad as him because of a sentence I wrote on a forum post that you clearly misinterpreted?

You are either painfully ignorant of the situation, or are extremely entitled to even consider this as an equal situation in my opinion. I'm almost envious, really.

It's not like player data got lost due to sloppiness, Oathkeeper deleted it. Dastgir should have backed it up but it's easier to assess this now with hindsight.

We had back ups for the player data and server. The keys were not given to Dastgir yet, and what back ups we had were designed to prevent technical failure, not the human failure where the person who is still in charge of the data because he didn't hand over access, intentionally sabotages said data and all of the back ups. We could have had 100 back ups and nothing would have changed, because instead of just burning the server and the back up, he would have just burned the server and the 100 back-ups.

Having all the back ups in the world doesn't matter when the one who owns all of the back ups decides to get rid of everything at the press of a couple buttons.

[OldPoring]

I just want to repeat once again, the players are all adults, I think there are no new child players in Ragnarok at all.
And everyone remembers how many hours you need to spend for 99 level with x1 rates, that's thousands of hours.

Also all adults understand that server can be terminated by its owner at any time and for any reason.

Yes, the case with the OathRO turned out to be somehow absurd and I would even say curious.

But we all remember how there was an attack related to the copyright of Gravity and it may happen again in the future. Server owner may have problems with money or health. Or he may just get bored!

It should be understood that any server can be stopped suddenly or with a warning, rudely or politely - but explanations are not so important for players, the main thing is just to be ready for it.

[Hatrask]

You equate people losing their items and characters in a video game to that of someone sabotaging a 7 year friendship, back charging several staff with what is the equivalent to wage fraud, and sabotaging that of the community to me saying "It's sad, but at least that stuff can be regained over time." Excuse me?
Do you think I didn't lose stuff either? I lost my own characters and stuff as well -- as well as had 14 months of my free labor effectively sabotaged. Labour where I would sometimes work 18 hours day after day, just trying to make the experience that little bit better for people rather than actually getting to play the game, all in an effort to make the community that much more clean, the environment that little bit more fair, the server a little bit more fun. Even with restarting the server, I know it's not going to reach the same glory it once did. Trust has been damaged and that is ridiculously hard to build back, and some people just won't want to start again. So how about you stop putting words in my mouth and cut the hypocrisy right there, yes?

What I said wasn't "indifference" at peoples' stuff being lost. It was "We lost what we had, but it's a miracle we can at least start again and begin anew" because that opportunity was potentially just a handful of seconds away from being wiped too.
I'd strongly suggest for you to get your priorities straight. Ragnarok is a video game. What Oathkeeper did reached beyond the boundaries of the video game. His actions have genuinely damaged peoples' lives and put people in financial jeopardy. I can't even get the medical help I need right now because he froze my pay pal account thanks to this fraudulent charge back claim. And you want to claim I am as bad as him because of a sentence I wrote on a forum post that you clearly misinterpreted?

You are either painfully ignorant of the situation, or are extremely entitled to even consider this as an equal situation in my opinion. I'm almost envious, really.



We had back ups for the player data and server. The keys were not given to Dastgir yet, and what back ups we had were designed to prevent technical failure, not the human failure where the person who is still in charge of the data because he didn't hand over access, intentionally sabotages said data and all of the back ups. We could have had 100 back ups and nothing would have changed, because instead of just burning the server and the back up, he would have just burned the server and the 100 back-ups.

Having all the back ups in the world doesn't matter when the one who owns all of the back ups decides to get rid of everything at the press of a couple buttons.

Yes, I'm equating your message to what the guy did because it was plain and simply that badly written. Also, the time you lost in either play time or donated to the project is irrelevant to what I brought up, you're not a representative of how players feel about their time, get off your high horse.

"That is sad, but at least those are things that can be obtained again. RO players are no strangers starting a server from new again."
Yeah, what happened is bad, but who cares? Most Ragnarok players are dumb enough to start over and over, right? We will just open a new server and they will all come back. That's how your message reads, and don't call it a misinterpretation, because there's no other way to interpret this.

My priorities are perfectly aligned. You should respect player data, it's that simple, honestly. It can't be recovered, it's time down the gutter that can't be patched by a few freebies once the server opens again. Also, if all your backups have the same point of failure, then you don't got s***. Sorry, please go study about backups and how they should be done.

That said, I want to be clear and say that I'm not blaming you or anyone for not knowing how to do a proper backup. Sadly, this is just how Ragnarok servers are, the tale of an admin going mad is as old as the game itself, and I'm sure that almost all servers up and running today don't have a proper backup either.

I just want to repeat once again, the players are all adults, I think there are no new child players in Ragnarok at all.
And everyone remembers how many hours you need to spend for 99 level with x1 rates, that's thousands of hours.

Also all adults understand that server can be terminated by its owner at any time and for any reason.

Yes, the case with the OathRO turned out to be somehow absurd and I would even say curious.

But we all remember how there was an attack related to the copyright of Gravity and it may happen again in the future. Server owner may have problems with money or health. Or he may just get bored!

It should be understood that any server can be stopped suddenly or with a warning, rudely or politely - but explanations are not so important for players, the main thing is just to be ready for it.

Yes, but because we're all adults, we have to weight our choices of how to spend time. Nobody starts playing in a MMO expecting it to close in a few weeks. The expectation is that it will last for at least a few years (or one year, if we take a realistic approach to Ragnarok servers). In this and many other cases, nobody would have to start over if people knew what being responsible about player data really is.

[Sairek Ceareste]

Yes, I'm equating your message to what the guy did because it was plain and simply that badly written. Also, the time you lost in either play time or donated to the project is irrelevant to what I brought up, you're not a representative of how players feel about their time, get off your high horse.

"That is sad, but at least those are things that can be obtained again. RO players are no strangers starting a server from new again."
Yeah, what happened is bad, but who cares? Most Ragnarok players are dumb enough to start over and over, right? We will just open a new server and they will all come back. That's how your message reads, and don't call it a misinterpretation, because there's no other way to interpret this.

My priorities are perfectly aligned. You should respect player data, it's that simple, honestly. It can't be recovered, it's time down the gutter that can't be patched by a few freebies once the server opens again. Also, if all your backups have the same point of failure, then you don't got s***. Sorry, please go study about backups and how they should be done.

That said, I want to be clear and say that I'm not blaming you or anyone for not knowing how to do a proper backup. Sadly, this is just how Ragnarok servers are, the tale of an admin going mad is as old as the game itself, and I'm sure that almost all servers up and running today don't have a proper backup either.

Yes, but because we're all adults, we have to weight our choices of how to spend time. Nobody starts playing in a MMO expecting it to close in a few weeks. The expectation is that it will last for at least a few years (or one year, if we take a realistic approach to Ragnarok servers). In this and many other cases, nobody would have to start over if people knew what being responsible about player data really is.

I will say it's a misinterpretation because that's what it is. I told you what it was. Not my fault you made a bad assumption and can't handle being wrong about it because you don't know me.

I don't care about the player's data? I literally cried for hours when I realized what Oathkeeper did; not just to me, but to everyone, you prick. And it's why I am staying around to make sure the server will reboot again. If I didn't care, I wouldn't have worked diligently for free for 14 months, and I wouldn't be doing my best now to make sure that players can at least play again.
Don't even pretend to think you know me. You don't.

Quit being entitled. You don't know what I'd give for to have the biggest problem I have to worry about in my life being what is equivalent to losing my save file in a video game. That doesn't mean I don't think there's sentimental value in that data for people, but to equate the loss of video game player data, to which I never even had access to the server in the first place -- to that someone committing to what surmounts to wage fraud against multiple people, speaks far more to your character than it does mine. Priorities perfectly aligned my butt. Maybe you should respect other people's time and situation beyond that of a video game. The irony of trying to lecture me about respecting player data, when you yourself can't even respect other living, human-beings.

[Hatrask]

I will say it's a misinterpretation because that's what it is. I told you what it was. Not my fault you made a bad assumption and can't handle being wrong about it because you don't know me.

I don't care about the player's data? I literally cried for hours when I realized what Oathkeeper did; not just to me, but to everyone, you prick. And it's why I am staying around to make sure the server will reboot again. If I didn't care, I wouldn't have worked diligently for free for 14 months, and I wouldn't be doing my best now to make sure that players can at least play again.
Don't even pretend to think you know me. You don't.

Quit being entitled. You don't know what I'd give for to have the biggest problem I have to worry about in my life being what is equivalent to losing my save file in a video game. That doesn't mean I don't think there's sentimental value in that data for people, but to equate the loss of video game player data, to which I never even had access to the server in the first place -- to that someone committing to what surmounts to wage fraud against multiple people, speaks far more to your character than it does mine. Priorities perfectly aligned my butt. Maybe you should respect other people's time and situation beyond that of a video game. The irony of trying to lecture me about respecting player data, when you yourself can't even respect other living, human-beings.

Yeah, yeah, you care so much about player data that you went full into PR-talk mode a mere hours after the fact just to say that it actually wasn't dead, just hibernating! Don't let those players run away, am I right? What is important isn't the data, guys, you can just grind it all again. Quit the crap. The server wasn't saved by a miracle, if Dastgir was working in the repository then they had a local copy of the emulator in their computer as well. That's Git 101. Or perhaps Oath invaded their computer as well and deleted everything? Now if only the same happened with the database... Too bad admins don't know wha a backup is. There's no trust between staff, or at least not enough to let multiple people have access to everything needed to run a server.

But don't worry, Oath2 will be back one day! Or maybe it should be called VowRO this time? PromiseRO? WeSwearThatWeKnowHowToBackupOurDatabaseNowRO? Got a few suggestions your way, for free, mind you.

[yC]

Hatrask, I think you got a bit of misunderstanding here.  Based on what I read so far, Sairek Ceareste and none of the staff posted here is considered a server admin.  The only admin and founder of the server is Oathkeeper. 

Given you are the server owner, to secure your player's data and your server (from being taken away from you), would you let your staff have a copy of the server account backup or full access to the player database?  Keep in mind, the database basically can plug into an open source emulator and a server with all the players data can get up and running in minutes.  I think we can understand this up to this point.  The fact that they are able to recover the source code only, means they might only have a test area environment or they are more on the developer and cm/helper side.  Even the server rules have to get approval from Oathkeeper to make it official.

Now, it's not like having more admins or letting more staff access to server account backup is foolproof.  Take for examples, T*l*n RO was split up from Anima RO.  Reb***th RO's owner have had his server taken from him because the staff have too much access.   The more people have access to the player database the higher chance data get leaked or taken hostage.   In a perfect world, a server admin will do what is best to protect the players and his server.  Before Oathkeeper decided to quit, he was doing exactly that. 

[Rayeth]

Yeah, yeah, you care so much about player data that you went full into PR-talk mode a mere hours after the fact just to say that it actually wasn't dead, just hibernating! Don't let those players run away, am I right? What is important isn't the data, guys, you can just grind it all again. Quit the crap. The server wasn't saved by a miracle, if Dastgir was working in the repository then they had a local copy of the emulator in their computer as well. That's Git 101. Or perhaps Oath invaded their computer as well and deleted everything? Now if only the same happened with the database... Too bad admins don't know wha a backup is. There's no trust between staff, or at least not enough to let multiple people have access to everything needed to run a server.

But don't worry, Oath2 will be back one day! Or maybe it should be called VowRO this time? PromiseRO? WeSwearThatWeKnowHowToBackupOurDatabaseNowRO? Got a few suggestions your way, for free, mind you.

He is not the owner. Nobody can do what you want them to do. lol

[Hatrask]

Hatrask, I think you got a bit of misunderstanding here.  Based on what I read so far, Sairek Ceareste and none of the staff posted here is considered a server admin.  The only admin and founder of the server is Oathkeeper. 

Given you are the server owner, to secure your player's data and your server (from being taken away from you), would you let your staff have a copy of the server account backup or full access to the player database?  Keep in mind, the database basically can plug into an open source emulator and a server with all the players data can get up and running in minutes.  I think we can understand this up to this point.  The fact that they are able to recover the source code only, means they might only have a test area environment or they are more on the developer and cm/helper side.  Even the server rules have to get approval from Oathkeeper to make it official.

Now, it's not like having more admins or letting more staff access to server account backup is foolproof.  Take for examples, T*l*n RO was split up from Anima RO.  Reb***th RO's owner have had his server taken from him because the staff have too much access.   The more people have access to the player database the higher chance data get leaked or taken hostage.   In a perfect world, a server admin will do what is best to protect the players and his server.  Before Oathkeeper decided to quit, he was doing exactly that.

I'm sorry, my rambling makes it seems different, but as I said, I don't expect any of them to have access to the database of the project. I'm honestly surprised they had access to the whole emulator in the first place, to be quite honest. Sadly I know far too well how things are with server admins. Again, I'm not implying they had a local database or anything like that, though I do hope they learn something from this since plans to re-open are clearly in the table.

Related to servers splitting, you're right that it can happen, but aren't both examples you gave quite old? From what I remember, Talon is more than a decade old already. It's hard to believe a community would split that easily nowadays, with Discord servers keeping everyone close and such. Letting more people have access to the database also brings privacy issues (even if the logs are kept separate), so this is also something to be considered. That said, one admin will always be a point of failure that doesn't really have to exist, but good luck to the staffs trying to convince their admin of such fact.

[felixvu]

I'm sorry, my rambling makes it seems different, but as I said, I don't expect any of them to have access to the database of the project. I'm honestly surprised they had access to the whole emulator in the first place, to be quite honest. Sadly I know far too well how things are with server admins. Again, I'm not implying they had a local database or anything like that, though I do hope they learn something from this since plans to re-open are clearly in the table.

Related to servers splitting, you're right that it can happen, but aren't both examples you gave quite old? From what I remember, Talon is more than a decade old already. It's hard to believe a community would split that easily nowadays, with Discord servers keeping everyone close and such. Letting more people have access to the database also brings privacy issues (even if the logs are kept separate), so this is also something to be considered. That said, one admin will always be a point of failure that doesn't really have to exist, but good luck to the staffs trying to convince their admin of such fact.

History has a pattern of repeating itself, and your point is irrelevant. While discord engaged players to socialize, doesnt mean the players are entitled to one server.

Oath hid his true intentions quite well, and theres nothing they can do about it if a server just went poof in mere hours.

[kolchak]

I had a good time while it lasted. Really low rates kick my donkey because I always feel like Im getting nowhere XD