How to make a Partyful server?

Started by eKoh, Sep 14, 2014, 03:01 AM

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eKoh

Hello guys, first of all, I am eKoh. I have been reading a lot of RMS posts around here, learning on how to make possible some things that I want on a server. I am writing this post, because even a little thing on a server could change a lot of its gameplay.

Full Party Server

* Where you can go to different places to train/grind in party
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Playtester

Some ways:
1. Low rates
2. High exp share range (20 or 30 instead of 10) or a system that percentually distributes exp based on exp needed.
3. High exp bonus for party (might as well make it 100% for each player)
4. Nerf monsters that are usually just done solo (Anubis, Geographer, etc.)
5. Make monsters more rewarding that can move and are aggressive (and are not rewarding yet), as those as the best to party on.

eKoh

Quote from: Playtester on Sep 14, 2014, 04:08 AM
Some ways:
1. Low rates
2. High exp share range (20 or 30 instead of 10) or a system that percentually distributes exp based on exp needed.
3. High exp bonus for party (might as well make it 100% for each player)
4. Nerf monsters that are usually just done solo (Anubis, Geographer, etc.)
5. Make monsters more rewarding that can move and are aggressive (and are not rewarding yet), as those as the best to party on.

1. I agree, how about an 10/10/20 ?xD haha, it's just that I find boring hunting things, I've done it for... 4 years, and almost everyone has done it, I think we are all bored from that.

2. I think that it is too much, because will be very easy to train for example to share exp with a 99 and 79 player, there will be no challenge to train, well, that's what I imagine.

3. I was thinking on the same thing, but I imagine that training will be a lot faster, that it wouldn't be something challenging.

4. Nerfing them, hmm, like lowering their exp? I think that it is a good idea.

5. Nice idea, maybe this can be applied for point #4.

Btw,

I was thinking on Disabling Double Client so players will need each other to train/hunt. Instead of having an alt slave and solo monsters.

Also adding party-maps to the warper, like enabling Majoruros, that is glast heim underground f2. Lhz too, easy entrance to lvl 2, maybe thanatos tower too, easy entrance till the floor required to be more than 5 ppl in the party ( I dont remember which floor it was ).

I also want to add/promote some maps where you can grind zeny/equipment in party. But you will not receive a lot of exp from here of course.
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Playtester

To 1. You need low rates for #2 and #3. Also: People who reached max level are less likely to party up. Endgame players mostly hunt for ingredients and do PVP, if you have too many of them you can forget having a partyful server. I'd personally go for 2x rates or 1x rates even. It all gets balanced thanks to #2 and #3 and #5 too.

To 2. I don't really think that "being to easy" is a problem. Sure a level 99 can party up with a level 79, but to effectively level they still need to fight harder monsters. The alternative is that those two can't party up at all and both go solo.

To 3. Again, that's why I say make low base rates. The bonus comes from partying.

To 4./5. Yeah, I was thinking a bit about that. I personally would lower the exp of many monsters that are only hunted solo. I'd revert Wolf, Spores, Mukas, etc. to their old stats and exp (before episode 10) because they are passive. On early levels I'd rather encourage partying up in a dungeon or at least field maps with aggressive monsters like Elder Willows. For mid-game, reducing exp Metaling gives and Geographers (and a few other immobile monsters) seems plausible. Anubis shouldn't really give more than 7000/5500 exp in it's current form, but maybe even removing undead element might be an idea or reverting him to his really old form (12359 HP, 2907/2700 Exp) might be an idea. Other than that partying needs to be encouraged by interesting regions to party in.


On top of that. I guess regional events that switch often might be a good idea, especially if you don't have so many players. You could have a set of maps to level in for that day. That way you can concentrate the players on a few maps, so it's easier to find a party.
(An even more custom approach would be to strongly limit the maps you can go to at all and rotate frequently.)


Disabling Double Client certainly support partying, but people will find hacks to get around that. It means a lot of work hunting down players.

Instead of punishing players that play with multi-client you might rather want to reward players that play in a real party. You could let players for example post their parties on forums (maybe even with screenshots and videos). Occasionally you check if those parties are really there. Then reward them with prizes like "Party of the week".


QuoteI also want to add/promote some maps where you can grind zeny/equipment in party. But you will not receive a lot of exp from here of course.
It's hard to encourage item hunting via party play right now.
For that you would need to implement it so that the item drop rates significantly increase in parties or even so that drops are calculated for each player rather than just per mob killed.

lilsword

Quote from: Playtester on Sep 14, 2014, 06:26 AM
To 1. You need low rates for #2 and #3. Also: People who reached max level are less likely to party up. Endgame players mostly hunt for ingredients and do PVP, if you have too many of them you can forget having a partyful server. I'd personally go for 2x rates or 1x rates even. It all gets balanced thanks to #2 and #3 and #5 too.

To 2. I don't really think that "being to easy" is a problem. Sure a level 99 can party up with a level 79, but to effectively level they still need to fight harder monsters. The alternative is that those two can't party up at all and both go solo.

To 3. Again, that's why I say make low base rates. The bonus comes from partying.

To 4./5. Yeah, I was thinking a bit about that. I personally would lower the exp of many monsters that are only hunted solo. I'd revert Wolf, Spores, Mukas, etc. to their old stats and exp (before episode 10) because they are passive. On early levels I'd rather encourage partying up in a dungeon or at least field maps with aggressive monsters like Elder Willows. For mid-game, reducing exp Metaling gives and Geographers (and a few other immobile monsters) seems plausible. Anubis shouldn't really give more than 7000/5500 exp in it's current form, but maybe even removing undead element might be an idea or reverting him to his really old form (12359 HP, 2907/2700 Exp) might be an idea. Other than that partying needs to be encouraged by interesting regions to party in.


On top of that. I guess regional events that switch often might be a good idea, especially if you don't have so many players. You could have a set of maps to level in for that day. That way you can concentrate the players on a few maps, so it's easier to find a party.
(An even more custom approach would be to strongly limit the maps you can go to at all and rotate frequently.)


Disabling Double Client certainly support partying, but people will find hacks to get around that. It means a lot of work hunting down players.

Instead of punishing players that play with multi-client you might rather want to reward players that play in a real party. You could let players for example post their parties on forums (maybe even with screenshots and videos). Occasionally you check if those parties are really there. Then reward them with prizes like "Party of the week".

It's hard to encourage item hunting via party play right now.
For that you would need to implement it so that the item drop rates significantly increase in parties or even so that drops are calculated for each player rather than just per mob killed.
My exact sentiments.  /ok

Wyvern

Disable dual client, EXP bonus (or some bonus) for partying (the more members the better), low EXP/drop rates, allow some kind of easy access to popular party areas (like abbey for example), remove the item exchange for repeatable EXP quests, but the hunt monster quest can probably stay, remove eden mission board maybe, low-enough quest exp reward, do things to promote parties (exclusive dungeon for parties?), implement more of less common mobs, etc.

Playtester

Quotebut the hunt monster quest can probably stay
+ make sure the kill actually counts for all party members on the screen that have the quest active

eKoh

Quote from: Playtester on Sep 14, 2014, 06:26 AM
To 1. You need low rates for #2 and #3. Also: People who reached max level are less likely to party up. Endgame players mostly hunt for ingredients and do PVP, if you have too many of them you can forget having a partyful server. I'd personally go for 2x rates or 1x rates even. It all gets balanced thanks to #2 and #3 and #5 too.

I think that 1x or 2x is too low, I was thinking on 10x because I've played a spanish server had these rates (10/10/9) and it was a partyful server, but the bad thing is that we could only go to Thor or Odin for non-reborn to train.

I was thinking on making 20x drop rates but, not giving Card unslotter NPC, that way you will not only need 1 thara frog card for everything or abysmals.

I also think that with a 10x/10x base/job exp rates, this will also be balanced and not those 2x or 1x :S!

Quote from: Playtester on Sep 14, 2014, 06:26 AM
Disabling Double Client certainly support partying, but people will find hacks to get around that. It means a lot of work hunting down players.

I know that, but, there will still be a huge population that only knows how to play with 1 client (unless if the protection sucks). Also there is a script that instantly logs you off if the same Mac IP is detected on 2 clients (Server side protection to clientside).

Quote from: Playtester on Sep 14, 2014, 06:26 AM
Instead of punishing players that play with multi-client you might rather want to reward players that play in a real party. You could let players for example post their parties on forums (maybe even with screenshots and videos). Occasionally you check if those parties are really there. Then reward them with prizes like "Party of the week".

I think that this is not a good idea =/. Because players will find it boring to take screenshots -> post it to forum -> Some body to check it.

Quote from: Playtester on Sep 14, 2014, 06:26 AM
It's hard to encourage item hunting via party play right now.
For that you would need to implement it so that the item drop rates significantly increase in parties or even so that drops are calculated for each player rather than just per mob killed.

Oh, what I meant is not that you go with your buddies to hunt something like thara frog card, what I meant is for example going to hunt things like Soft feathers in Thanatos, and things like that. That are hard 2 get and you cannot solo them, so you need a party to grind them.

Quote from: Remia on Sep 14, 2014, 04:44 PM
Disable dual client, EXP bonus (or some bonus) for partying (the more members the better)

I totally agree with disabling dual client.

Quote from: Remia on Sep 14, 2014, 04:44 PM
EXP bonus (or some bonus) for partying (the more members the better)

I was thinking on the same thing, but I think we need to imagine the scenario of what would happen, and I think what probably happen is that the parties would be too crowded and as I said before but also finding party would be too easy, I really like this idea, but just that, imagine the scenario.

Quote from: Remia on Sep 14, 2014, 04:44 PM
low EXP/drop rates

I was thinking on leaving 7x/7x/20x rates, using this 110% bonus exp per party member.

Maybe changing the rates or the bonus to 105% would be good~

Or lowering the rates when you reach to lvl 86 like:

Quote from: Remia on Sep 14, 2014, 04:44 PM
allow some kind of easy access to popular party areas (like abbey for example)

I think that giving  easy access is a good idea, but not for already popular maps as abbey/thor, I was thinking on maps like Turtle Dungeon, Lighthalzen 2, and maps that are unpopular. And also giving an exp bonus on these maps (balancing them vs popular ones), to make them enough good as the popular ones.

Quote from: Remia on Sep 14, 2014, 04:44 PM
emove the item exchange for repeatable EXP quests, but the hunt monster quest can probably stay
Quote from: Playtester on Sep 14, 2014, 04:53 PM
+ make sure the kill actually counts for all party members on the screen that have the quest active

I agree with hunt + the kill counts for every party member, as Playtester said.

Quote from: Remia on Sep 14, 2014, 04:44 PM
remove eden mission board maybe

For sure, I've never made 1 of those, but I have read that they promote going solo around RO.

Quote from: Remia on Sep 14, 2014, 04:44 PM
low-enough quest exp reward

Hmm, nice suggestion, I definetly agree.

Quote from: Remia on Sep 14, 2014, 04:44 PM
do things to promote parties (exclusive dungeon for parties?), implement more of less common mobs

I think that is just like any party dungeon like abbey.
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Bue

The secret ingredient to building any kind of social community on any MMORPG, including partying and idle chit-chat, are girls.

Anything else you do will just make lone-wolf wannabes uncomfortable. (And there are plenty of them.)

applecidervinegar

Quote from: Bue on Sep 14, 2014, 11:00 PM
The secret ingredient to building any kind of social community on any MMORPG, including partying and idle chit-chat, are girls.

Anything else you do will just make lone-wolf wannabes uncomfortable. (And there are plenty of them.)

I cant express how much i agree with this.

Playtester

Reminds me of that dude who hired female GMs only.

eKoh

Quote from: Bue on Sep 14, 2014, 11:00 PM
The secret ingredient to building any kind of social community on any MMORPG, including partying and idle chit-chat, are girls.

Anything else you do will just make lone-wolf wannabes uncomfortable. (And there are plenty of them.)

oh lol, that's so true xD
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eKoh

* I was thinking on making a Low Rate like (2x/2x) and increase the exp share per member in 105% so if 12 players are in a party it would be like... (12*1.05) * 2x = 25.2x rates.

* Also rebalancing the experience given by monsters (Lowering exp from anubis, geographer and increase to other monsters if needed).

* Opening easy warps to unpopular maps.

* Disabling Double Client

I think those 4 are going to be the main ideas to implement and test.

Also these ideas are good:

* Quests that when you kill a monster it counts for all the party.

* Removing eden mission board maybe

* Lowering quest exp reward
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Playtester

I wouldn't put the exp share reward higher than 100% or else people will just get "dummies" to increase their own exp.

Also keep in mind that there is also a 25% exp bonus for multi-attacking (per "touch"). This bonus might actually be better to determine if all party members are actually actively playing. For example you could make exp share bonus 50% and multi-attack bonus 55%, you still end up with 25.2x rates but only if all party members are actively attacking (or debuffing or tanking) the monster.

eKoh

Quote from: Playtester on Sep 16, 2014, 03:37 AM
I wouldn't put the exp share reward higher than 100% or else people will just get "dummies" to increase their own exp.

Also keep in mind that there is also a 25% exp bonus for multi-attacking (per "touch"). This bonus might actually be better to determine if all party members are actually actively playing. For example you could make exp share bonus 50% and multi-attack bonus 55%, you still end up with 25.2x rates but only if all party members are actively attacking (or debuffing or tanking) the monster.

Oh nice consideration, I must keep  that in mind.

And what do you think about re-balancing the maps? To make the unpopular ones... popular haha, as a player, you find that... over customized?
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Playtester

Depends on what you want to customize. Spawns? Stats?


The main problem I have with customized servers is that they don't make their changes very visible. You need to browse through forums or just try yourself to even figure out what custom stuff they have in.

If monsters stats are changed, the server should offer a "monster search" feature on the website.
If spawns are changed, the server should offer a world and dungeon map and where you hover over, it tells you the spawn.
(basically like this: http://db.irowiki.org/classic/world-map/ and http://db.irowiki.org/classic/dungeon-map/)
Plus the monster database should then also show where the monster spawns, so it's easy for players to find the best hunt spot.

And a log listing ALL the changes in a single thread. Not spread around the whole forum over hundreds of announcement threads.

Playtester

Oh and also I just remembered, you probably would want to make some skills like Heat on Boss Protocol (if that even still works) less abusable or your server might end up with leeching only.

eKoh

Quote from: Playtester on Sep 16, 2014, 06:36 AM
Depends on what you want to customize. Spawns? Stats?

The main problem I have with customized servers is that they don't make their changes very visible. You need to browse through forums or just try yourself to even figure out what custom stuff they have in.

And a log listing ALL the changes in a single thread. Not spread around the whole forum over hundreds of announcement threads.

I was thinking on spawns and monster's exp.

I was also thinking the same thing, I hate when a server make changes like these and the information is hard 2 get. As you said a "monster search" feature would be good, but I think that a topic, specifying the changes of monsters/maps would be enough at the beginning of the server.

Quote from: Playtester on Sep 16, 2014, 08:02 AM
Oh and also I just remembered, you probably would want to make some skills like Heat on Boss Protocol (if that even still works) less abusable or your server might end up with leeching only.

:S! I dont know what's that, explain me. Me noob haha. Btw, leeching is something that I want to avoid, I see that talonRO has a lot of leeching services and I think that is ... bullsh3t.
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Playtester

As long as all changes are listen in a single thread and there aren't too many I guess that's fine. But if you change the spawn on all 600+ maps, then that's too hard to read for a player who just wants to know where he can hunt a certain monster.

Quote:S! I dont know what's that, explain me. Me noob haha. Btw, leeching is something that I want to avoid, I see that talonRO has a lot of leeching services and I think that is ... bullsh3t.
There are a few really hard regions in RO, that despite their difficulty are hard to party on. Bio 3, Thor, New World. That is because you really need a very focused group or just solo these regions to be effective in them. Going with in with a just for fun party usually ends up with the party dead in just a few seconds.

The monster in these regions (well Bio 3 and Thor at least) give so much exp, that it's highly rewarding.
Particularly Thor ended up becoming the #1 leeching place because of that.
One of the methods used there was to use for example Star Gladiator's Heat to kill Kasas. As heat doesn't knock back boss monsters there will just stay next to the Star Gladiator and get hit every tick interval (every 20ms, that's 50 hits per second). The target is a goner pretty fast. An SG doesn't need much party support there other than someone giving buffs and heals but that can also be done by alts.

But honestly I'm not sure how to even get rid of leeching.

eKoh

Quote from: Playtester on Sep 16, 2014, 09:34 AM

The monster in these regions (well Bio 3 and Thor at least) give so much exp, that it's highly rewarding.
Particularly Thor ended up becoming the #1 leeching place because of that.
One of the methods used there was to use for example Star Gladiator's Heat to kill Kasas. As heat doesn't knock back boss monsters there will just stay next to the Star Gladiator and get hit every tick interval (every 20ms, that's 50 hits per second). The target is a goner pretty fast. An SG doesn't need much party support there other than someone giving buffs and heals but that can also be done by alts.

But honestly I'm not sure how to even get rid of leeching.

I see... I think Thor should be nerfed too (exp), since it is the main place to train. This is why ppl are now not going to Lhz3 or other dungeons, also abbey is the reason of this happening.

Quote from: Playtester on Sep 16, 2014, 09:34 AM
Oh and also I just remembered, you probably would want to make some skills like Heat on Boss Protocol (if that even still works) less abusable or your server might end up with leeching only.

Of course I am going to do this haha.
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Playtester

Imo Cursed Abbey is one of the most fun places to party up in. At least the first floor.

eKoh

hmm, an idea came to my mind, what about re balance the unpopular maps to compite vs the popular ones, and make "happy hours" on this and that dungeon, giving a minimal exp bonus of 10~20% for the maps, that way you can jump into different maps and have different fun haha
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Playtester

Yeah I said something similar like that earlier already. Make events so people focus on a few selected maps so more people meet up -> more partying.

Also don't just decrease the EXP in those super hard regions.
I'd go so far and say decrease the ATK of all mobs that can't be tanked by anyone. No tanking possible is usually a big party killer. A party just isn't fun if no party member can even survive a single hit. I'd even make MVPs weaker.

But I can imagine that people will be against this.

Triper

I would make all the MVPs instanced [add a story, make a 3-5 floor dungeon accessible with at least 5 players, add a ranking system where each MVP killed = points to each member of a party, points that could even be exchanged for useful items at a npc, etc] and strong as hell with weaker versions of the MVP cards at a decent rate to drop while the real ones would be kept as 0.01% but that's me because I think that MVPs should be also a part of the end, not an "anyone can do it easy" and because I like stuff like ET where a good party > all.

The real MVPs could even be changed for a similar monster with decent gear - not junk and maybe even custom but useful gear - so that they would still be there for a reason.

eKoh

#24
Quote from: Playtester on Sep 17, 2014, 07:02 AM
Also don't just decrease the EXP in those super hard regions.
I'd go so far and say decrease the ATK of all mobs that can't be tanked by anyone. No tanking possible is usually a big party killer. A party just isn't fun if no party member can even survive a single hit. I'd even make MVPs weaker.

But I can imagine that people will be against this.

I am thinking the same way, I remember that the monsters from New World deal so crazy damage, I wanna decrease that, to make them more~ enjoyable than just using fly wing and killing them by insane DS or AD.

Most of the time people is affraid from what is new~~ As renewal haha, but I think that we have to face those changes and start building a good gameplay with feedback+brain and of course, a lot of effort.

Quote from: Triper on Sep 17, 2014, 12:04 PM
I would make all the MVPs instanced [add a story, make a 3-5 floor dungeon accessible with at least 5 players, add a ranking system where each MVP killed = points to each member of a party, points that could even be exchanged for useful items at a npc, etc] and strong as hell with weaker versions of the MVP cards at a decent rate to drop while the real ones would be kept as 0.01% but that's me because I think that MVPs should be also a part of the end, not an "anyone can do it easy" and because I like stuff like ET where a good party > all.

The real MVPs could even be changed for a similar monster with decent gear - not junk and maybe even custom but useful gear - so that they would still be there for a reason.

;D! I am glad to read that! Last week I've just completed the custom novice ground for my server, it has a story quest that I've used some little effects + sounds to make an envolving story to the player and at the end you have to defeat the terrible Taiko to leave that place haha.

I was also thinking on making something like this, like releasing some custom Atroce and using the .bmp images (like kafra) of atroce + sounds (maybe a wolf howling) + effects (a scratch) to make an envolving story as I said.

I want to work on that too, but I think it is not really important on the beginning of the server. But if the server comes stable and everything is going well, I will of course start working on that what you say! It would be really amazing! *-*
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Playtester

Well Renewal messed up a lot of things. Sure the decrease of ATK in new world is nice, but generally Renewal is too easy.

But really regions like New World and Thor only have so high ATK because the market on official servers at that time was already swarmed with many +10 gears and MVP cards. With 90 DEF the damage goes down from 5000 to 500.

For low rate private servers however, people won't have as good gear as on official and no MVP cards, so reducing ATK in these regions seems quite reasonable.

eKoh

Quote from: Playtester on Sep 18, 2014, 04:55 AM
Well Renewal messed up a lot of things. Sure the decrease of ATK in new world is nice, but generally Renewal is too easy.

But really regions like New World and Thor only have so high ATK because the market on official servers at that time was already swarmed with many +10 gears and MVP cards. With 90 DEF the damage goes down from 5000 to 500.

For low rate private servers however, people won't have as good gear as on official and no MVP cards, so reducing ATK in these regions seems quite reasonable.

Hmm, how come renewal is too easy? I tought it was hard:P
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Playtester

I found it fairly easy, because monster damage is lower and because mobs above your level are not worth the exp, you will just end up fighting monsters your level or lower.
But of course lately they did a monster damage upgrade, so I guess not it isn't all that easy anymore.