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From time to time I ask questions on RMS and today my question is about Guild Packages, on Low Rate servers!

So I've seen a couple of Low Rate servers with some guild packages around, which seem awesome imo.  Although some guild packages seem lacking and some seem over abundant with items.

My question to you today, besides the small poll above, is how do you feel about guild packages for Low Rates.  What is your ideal guild package?   [ Meaning what type of stuff does it include, try to be reasonable xD ]  And whats the worst guild package you've seen, if you wanna include that [ i've seem some pretty blah guild packages. ]  Include any thoughts and opinions you might have.

I've honestly never been part of a guild who has received a guild package, not a lot of my friends play RO anymore. 

Anyways, gonna go back to playin WoW.  :B

For low rates they're not pretty much needed, people that go into low rates go knowing that they have to grind to get stuff anyway, in max give something as 1 Emperium and some manuals.

I think that is better to have some beginner gears as able to get with the initial zenny you get by making a char or give to when people make a char instead of giving lots of stuff to people that join just because they join as a guild.

Joining as a guild is good and stuff but using that to get more people is a bad move because is the quality inside that should shine instead of what people get in the begin when joining as a group but i'm all up to give emps to people that join as a guild of 5 or more together so they can have something that they can call home or make an npc where people can go when they begin and after some checks make the guild/give them an emp.

Quote from: Triper on Sep 03, 2011, 10:25 AM
For low rates they're not pretty much needed, people that go into low rates go knowing that they have to grind to get stuff anyway, in max give something as 1 Emperium and some manuals.

I think that is better to have some beginner gears as able to get with the initial zenny you get by making a char or give to when people make a char instead of giving lots of stuff to people that join just because they join as a guild.

Joining as a guild is good and stuff but using that to get more people is a bad move because is the quality inside that should shine instead of what people get in the begin when joining as a group but i'm all up to give emps to people that join as a guild of 5 or more together so they can have something that they can call home or make an npc where people can go when they begin and after some checks make the guild/give them an emp.

I was thinking the same thing, an emp maybe 1 or 2 Battle Manuals / Bubble Gums per member.  Or maybe some basic gear, nothing like Tidal's or Wool's.  I've seen a few low rates offering some pretty high end gear / items and I just thought it was crazy!  But you're right!  Low rates are all about grinding to get your own stuff.  :)  Thanks for that input!  :D

MRs are popular for Guild Packages, and they usually include MVP drops and stuff. It's stupid, but the again, it accommodates the laziness of the players.

Valkyrie Armour, Diablo's Robe... Things like that. Not cool.

I think 'guild packages' in general are just plain dumb. Like a lot of you have said it accomodates laziness and I don't want lazy people on my RO server complaining and messing up things >:

Quote from: RaptureRO on Sep 03, 2011, 03:35 PM
I think 'guild packages' in general are just plain dumb. Like a lot of you have said it accomodates laziness and I don't want lazy people on my RO server complaining and messing up things >:

xD ikr?  I just thought it was crazy when I saw these LR's with crazy items in their guild package.

The whole point of a guild package is to get guilds into WoE faster if not immediately. Laziness or not that's not the entire factor here. Seeing as most (SERIOUS) WoE guilds want nothing to do with PvM, PvP, MvP, and now starting to be the famous BG. It's not entirely cause we are "lazy" it's the fact that the previous mentioned are boring, and repetitive. The average WoE server last about 1-2 months meaning a guild can range from 6-12 ( if the don't quit by then) servers in a year unless you get lucky with something like BrawlRO (yet another dead WoE server). Guild packages are more of a promotion of the server than anything really. More guilds can possibly = better WoE's which in return can make your server insanely popular.

Now onto the topic.
A low rate is already a -1 for any serious WoE guild. Now if they were offering something insane (for a low rate) like free 99/70 classes full BG sets and various other MvP items and supplies. Possibly it could attract guilds, but that would ruin the entire point of playing a low rate. I'm going with Triper on this one. I really do not see how an actual WoE guild pack would suffice for a low rate. I could be wrong though.

Quote from: leokimah on Sep 03, 2011, 06:49 PM
The whole point of a guild package is to get guilds into WoE faster if not immediately. Laziness or not that's not the entire factor here. Seeing as most (SERIOUS) WoE guilds want nothing to do with PvM, PvP, MvP, and now starting to be the famous BG. It's not entirely cause we are "lazy" it's the fact that the previous mentioned are boring, and repetitive. The average WoE server last about 1-2 months meaning a guild can range from 6-12 ( if the don't quit by then) servers in a year unless you get lucky with something like BrawlRO (yet another dead WoE server). Guild packages are more of a promotion of the server than anything really. More guilds can possibly = better WoE's which in return can make your server insanely popular.

Now onto the topic.
A low rate is already a -1 for any serious WoE guild. Now if they were offering something insane (for a low rate) like free 99/70 classes full BG sets and various other MvP items and supplies. Possibly it could attract guilds, but that would ruin the entire point of playing a low rate. I'm going with Triper on this one. I really do not see how an actual WoE guild pack would suffice for a low rate. I could be wrong though.

Actually i've seen a few guilds who are serious about WoE on low rates, not as many as mid/high rates though.  I honestly didn't know either since most Low Rates attract people who are about PvM and whatnot.  And yeah i'm pretty sure if I saw a guild package on a low rate that offered a free 99 and a buncha high end gear i'd just not play the server.  o_o;  And it IS Lazyness, to a point.  I get that they get tired of hunting stuff cause servers shut down and whatnot, but you should have to hunt your own gear, especially if its on something other than a Low Rate.

Quote from: Chemical Crush on Sep 04, 2011, 04:30 AM
I get that they get tired of hunting stuff cause servers shut down and whatnot, but you should have to hunt your own gear, especially if its on something other than a Low Rate.

Serious WoE guild on a low rate makes me laugh. I have yet to see any good competition on one ("low rate") since eternityRO a few years ago. Serious or not 1-3 guilds playing who can out emp break each other for 2 hours and calling what their so called GvG's an actual GvG is just hilarious to think about and even more so to see.

WoE is not about and should never be who can grind more or who can camp the most MvP's the longest. With all guilds fit with what they need (end game gear) WoE's are more interesting.

If guild packs didn't exist (I'm not talking about low rates here cause this really applies to a high rate as well) I would have quit long ago (I know i'm not the only one who feels this way) and before then people always geared and supplied me. Cause the way i see it I shouldn't have to endure 2-3 weeks of a bunch of mindless grinding to enjoy 2 hours of the game a week.

Guild packs are for WoE not pvm. If the servers are offering them for pvm then yeah i see your point.

Quote from: leokimah on Sep 04, 2011, 04:55 AM
Serious WoE guild on a low rate makes me laugh. I have yet to see any good competition on one ("low rate") since eternityRO a few years ago. Serious or not 1-3 guilds playing who can out emp break each other for 2 hours and calling what their so called GvG's an actual GvG is just hilarious to think about and even more so to see.

WoE is not about and should never be who can grind more or who can camp the most MvP's the longest. With all guilds fit with what they need (end game gear) WoE's are more interesting.

If guild packs didn't exist (I'm not talking about low rates here cause this really applies to a high rate as well) I would have quit long ago (I know i'm not the only one who feels this way) and before then people always geared and supplied me. Cause the way i see it I shouldn't have to endure 2-3 weeks of a bunch of mindless grinding to enjoy 2 hours of the game a week.

Guild packs are for WoE not pvm. If the servers are offering them for pvm then yeah i see your point.

I dunno I just saw them on some Low Rates, there was one Low Rate that only offered crap like dead branches and bloody branches?  also an emp and some other retarded crap.

Oof you're right about the Low Rate WoE.  I've seen a couple of guilds take WoE seriously on Low Rates, but not as serious as people are on High rates.  The only low rates with decent woe are the officals.  Lol. 

But you can't really offer a Low Rate guild package with crazy insane gear cause you know the community would qq about it.

Yeah I agree with you there. Guilds do not necessarily join a low rate to just WoE. So a guild packages doesn't seem fair towards the rest of the community.

on a low rate server the only thing i would look forward to in the package are some field manuals :3

Actually, I do find guild packages to be a bit unfair at times (when I see on a server's website that it is offered). It just gives a sense that "guilds are more important" than "you coming alone or coming with a friend, etc". I know server owners don't mean that, but that's what is hinted from my perspective. It may also give a sense of segregation where lone players and incoming guilds are in different factions (where the staff recognizes guilds and not individuals) and that those who are in guilds get an easier way to join the server.

Nevertheless, I don't really support newbie packages as well unless they're just EXP books and simple things. No overpowered customs or items.

Quote from: Yukino on Sep 19, 2011, 07:18 PM
Actually, I do find guild packages to be a bit unfair at times (when I see on a server's website that it is offered). It just gives a sense that "guilds are more important" than "you coming alone or coming with a friend, etc".

Exactly my thought process! But players don't seem to feel the same way.
They QQ straight away if you don't follow their every little bidding.

^ So true. Sadly, some players can cause a chain reaction, and you get a huge portion of the server complaining as a result. Not many people play simply anymore D:...

They should just be happy they have a place to play at, a possibly good community and hopefully active GM's that do participate in the community and bring updates.
The official RO's never showed a GM, and even less GM lead events, I was happy to see one in a year and I was on a test server, they should've been there once a month at least =/

Quote from: Strudel on Sep 19, 2011, 07:29 PM
They should just be happy they have a place to play at, a possibly good community and hopefully active GM's that do participate in the community and bring updates.
The official RO's never showed a GM, and even less GM lead events, I was happy to see one in a year and I was on a test server, they should've been there once a month at least =/

What does this have to do with guild packages?

:|   Just curious.  I mean I get they should be happy with finding a place to spend time on.  But, what does that have to do with your opinion on Guild Packages? 

Also I don't blame the official GMs for not popping on, do you know how bombarded they get with players?  I saw three the whole time I played iRO, which I was playing back in 2003.  And everytime I saw them they got SWARMED.

Quote from: Yukino on Sep 19, 2011, 07:18 PM
Actually, I do find guild packages to be a bit unfair at times (when I see on a server's website that it is offered). It just gives a sense that "guilds are more important" than "you coming alone or coming with a friend, etc". I know server owners don't mean that, but that's what is hinted from my perspective. It may also give a sense of segregation where lone players and incoming guilds are in different factions (where the staff recognizes guilds and not individuals) and that those who are in guilds get an easier way to join the server.

Nevertheless, I don't really support newbie packages as well unless they're just EXP books and simple things. No overpowered customs or items.

For higher rates and even some mid rates guilds ARE more important than a single player (hence why they offer guild packages). Just think of it this way your going to make more money off a group as opposed to a single customer in the long run from the business point of view (terrible analogy i know). Sadly this is true in RO cause most servers (at least the past 5-10 i've played) were run by a bunch of greedy fools who only made the server for a mild source of income on the side (WoE servers xd). Now i'm just going off topic.

Quote from: Strudel on Sep 19, 2011, 07:29 PM
They should just be happy they have a place to play at, a possibly good community and hopefully active GM's that do participate in the community and bring updates.
The official RO's never showed a GM, and even less GM lead events, I was happy to see one in a year and I was on a test server, they should've been there once a month at least =/

GM's on official servers have it a whole hell of a lot harder than any private server owner could ever dream of. I know this cause i'm good friends with one of the GM's on iRO. It's not their job to sit in game for hours answering stupid s*** like "gib me itens please!?" this is the same with in game events. If you want to contact one and it's something serious you'll get a rather quick response by sending a support ticket through the site or even their main forums.

^ (To my quoting) Yeah, I know D:, hence why it's unfairrrrrrrr. And nah, you're sort of on topic still ;D.
Unless owners are able to offer both guild packages and individual ones for a certain amount of period (not all the way), like a promotional period. But it's still difficult to find that balance... of what's really fair and unfair. Almost everything is subjective after all.

Quote from: leokimah on Sep 20, 2011, 05:23 PM
GM's on official servers have it a whole hell of a lot harder than any private server owner could ever dream of. I know this cause i'm good friends with one of the GM's on iRO. It's not their job to sit in game for hours answering stupid s*** like "gib me itens please!?" this is the same with in game events. If you want to contact one and it's something serious you'll get a rather quick response by sending a support ticket through the site or even their main forums.

And this also a reason of why many servers fail/people quit being a GM.
I know a server where on of the admins asked a friend of mine to be on for 8h a day doing events+answering questions from players after he was selected to be a GM. It's easy to see that he just quit that thing in the next day after seeing that it was pure abuse of people to own profit of the admin since he wasn't even paying him something lol
Most of the Admins just think that having eyes in game > being organized with a forum and make the entire cake work together.[/offtopic]

High rates will always bigger and easy to get stuff packages for guilds, it's what they're made to, most of the time:
- rise
- sell stuff as donations
- admin gets money
- done
- make a new server with new names of everything when the server is failing
People don't think in quality nowadays =\

how does this have ANYTHING to do with Guild packages? At least I was still writing about RO..

Quote from: Strudel on Sep 24, 2011, 06:38 AM
how does this have ANYTHING to do with Guild packages? At least I was still writing about RO..

I feel like you're trying to get your post count up  /hmm


People went off topic because you drived away from the topic.  Which is no big deal, only reason I pointed out your post is because you were the first person to give nothing on the topic at hand and talked about something else, completely. 

Plus I hadn't looked at this thread in a while, but still, they also were writing about RO.   So what the heck are you talking about?

it's not bad, but just dont make players get used to it for they will ask for more in the future.

I used to work on a Low rate with guild packages and I was the one tasked with setting them up. The way I found best was to make it a bunch of those random items, a couple OCAs OBB and OPBs. It brings in the players that are looking for it, but 95% of people don't really get anything super useful to them. It worked really well in my opinion, and brought in a few guilds. I think there were a few players that really liked that system, even with such a low chance of getting anything, sometimes moderation goes a long way.

Guild packages don't bother me too much as long as they don't give out crazy overpowered items.

An emperium, battle manuals, maybe even a few convex mirrors to help with some of those equips useful in woe, but don't GUARANTEE the item being obtained are acceptable. Those boxes that give random items are nice too. Most give crap but the occasional Glove [1] or Emperium Anvil are nice.

I think guild packages can be a useful tool to the players and as a tool for the server owner to recruit more players.  More guilds will spawn more competition during woe and good competition is what lots of players look for.

I do not think that the packages shouldn't contain unfair items (example things that a regular player with no guild would have no way of getting.)  But it is helpful when moving your guild and starting fresh on a server, to have a few helpful items :P

I'd play a server with or without them, either way, its more about what the server has to offer me and less about a recruitment package.

Pretty much agree with everything that leokimah said. O0

Guild Packages are great because they pave way into a more effective way of gaining players. Also, it would provide a greater ground for guilds who were from a server that recently shut down. Though, I believe a minimum number of people should be given, such as just the guild master, or nothing at all.

Whenever I'm searching for servers, I don't really want those with guild transfer packages. Mostly that I have seen throughout my server hunts were imbalanced packages, those with +7 Valkyrie Set, which is not appropriate with the current rates / economical status of the server.

Most servers I see literally give every member a full MVP Set, Cards, +7 Feather Berets, etc. plus Manuals, Bubble Gum... but I don't mind those two so much.

Seriously, though? It's an MR 99/70. You can't go around handing out stuff like that so freely.

I rather play a server with guild packages because i only join servers with friends and guildmates. Rewarding a group of members(guild) reasonably for joining ur server is quite fair.

A guild pack for low rates is simple, 1 emperium and a simple starting gears. Better than you get at novice place, but not all that hard to get from hunting or buying.

for every 10? people,
1 ck
2 valk armor
1drobe
10 valk sheild
10 poo hats (beret is too good, no really!)
2 +5 dark bacilium
cards
enough bg badges for regular +4 gearset
a little ammo and edp
etc...

leave out high end stuff like elemental sword, its not necessary. AD barehand is enough, they'll have to work for the high end
tharas, raydrics, horn, noxious, alligator, marc, ED, etc. you should also probably increase monster rates for woe specific cards.
you can create custom "boxes" that have the items required. even class specific ones. define a maximum of 2 of each class or somesuch, a guild of 10 people claiming to all be champs/profs and thereby wanting drobes/CKs is nonsense.
I saw a guildpack that gave 1 mailbreaker[3] and swordbreaker[3] per 10 people, I drooled... theres always some bastard in a guild who likes this stuff
it helps to know about the classes, so you know what they really need
you can always check what other servers give to get ideas
if you give too much, soloists will hate and be jealous

how about.. OP!?
1CK
2valk armor.. rofl, you kidding?
I mean I'm for guild packages but nothing OP like that, VR and SM are like the final bosses except Naght in his own little home and Nidhoggr but still, their the ultra strong bosses in hard to reach places, why give them such gear, all they need is an emp and a few decent starter gears.

Quote from: Strudel on Nov 21, 2011, 01:06 PM
how about.. OP!?
1CK
2valk armor.. rofl, you kidding?

well, dps creo can't woe for s*** without varmor, same for magic stalker. spp creo doesnt need it
any prof on the offensive with dispell is gonna need CK or he's gonna fail. dlp prof can get by without it

Like i said they need basic gear and all after that is their own to do.
They can hunt valk or w/e themselves but giving them those gears is just to much.
Especially + gear..
And you failed to write down the most important item, the emperium, that's what they actually need the rest is irrelevant or an addon, but you put it into "etc"

Quote from: Thoth on Nov 21, 2011, 07:09 AM
for every 10? people,
1 ck
2 valk armor
1drobe
10 valk sheild
10 poo hats (beret is too good, no really!)
2 +5 dark bacilium
cards
enough bg badges for regular +4 gearset
a little ammo and edp
etc...

leave out high end stuff like elemental sword, its not necessary. AD barehand is enough, they'll have to work for the high end
tharas, raydrics, horn, noxious, alligator, marc, ED, etc. you should also probably increase monster rates for woe specific cards.
you can create custom "boxes" that have the items required. even class specific ones. define a maximum of 2 of each class or somesuch, a guild of 10 people claiming to all be champs/profs and thereby wanting drobes/CKs is nonsense.
I saw a guildpack that gave 1 mailbreaker[3] and swordbreaker[3] per 10 people, I drooled... theres always some bastard in a guild who likes this stuff
it helps to know about the classes, so you know what they really need
you can always check what other servers give to get ideas
if you give too much, soloists will hate and be jealous

Most of this is crazy op for a LOW RATE.  In my first post I said for a LOW RATE so I really hope you're not speaking for a low rate.

Now if this is for...I don't know, ratesidontcareabout, then okay.

I'm surprised people are still posting in this xD

Guild pack is mostly a feature on WoE servers, which is mostly Mid-High rate server. Why would you discuss guild pack for Low rate server? Low rate is mostly PvM and I don't see why you need guild pack for PvM.

I dunno, I've long been with a guild that once it gets the setup required can camp bio3 and SM, stuff like CK isn't a big deal. one guildie made +9 combat knife because we had too many left over and didnt want to lower the price.
all on 99/70 midrates mind you
if its low rate, just throw some cards and bg badges at them then, theres nothing these guys hate more than killing 10,000 thara frogs

Guild Package is a "must" on any server these days. Players are bored to start all over again and again after a month or so, the server dies. These kind of things attract ppl/guild to play RO again. There are so many MMO's nowadays that you can play but guild package are one of the reason why ppl still play RO.

Low rates were never meant to be easy. Killing thousands mob just for one card is pretty much normal in low rate. Joining low rate, by any means, you should know that it will take years to gear up. Players who asked for guild pack on low rate are those who just need to play on higher rate. Low rate is made for those who still loves the oldschool RO PvM, not PvP/BG/WoE. Even giving away cards on low-rate is like you're giving away MvP gears for them.

Guild package is a must for a WoE server, in which 90% of them couldn't last long and made people hop to another server. PvM server, however, tend to last longer than WoE server, thus you don't need that much of guild pack stuff for MvPing. You're going to get them step by step. For PvM low-rate, instead of guild package, I'd recommend to give extra starting zenny or w/e. It benefits both PvM and WoE players.

Quote from: Kensei on Nov 21, 2011, 10:53 PM
Guild pack is mostly a feature on WoE servers, which is mostly Mid-High rate server. Why would you discuss guild pack for Low rate server? Low rate is mostly PvM and I don't see why you need guild pack for PvM.

Did you read my first post?

Probably not.

I said I had seen low rates starting to offer this, and what do people think about it.  :| 

Quote from: Kensei on Nov 22, 2011, 01:26 AM
Low rates were never meant to be easy. Killing thousands mob just for one card is pretty much normal in low rate. Joining low rate, by any means, you should know that it will take years to gear up. Players who asked for guild pack on low rate are those who just need to play on higher rate. Low rate is made for those who still loves the oldschool RO PvM, not PvP/BG/WoE. Even giving away cards on low-rate is like you're giving away MvP gears for them.

This.

QuoteGuild package is a must for a WoE server, in which 90% of them couldn't last long and made people hop to another server. PvM server, however, tend to last longer than WoE server, thus you don't need that much of guild pack stuff for MvPing. You're going to get them step by step. For PvM low-rate, instead of guild package, I'd recommend to give extra starting zenny or w/e. It benefits both PvM and WoE players.

Thats what I was thinking, hence why I was like WTF when I saw that a few low rates were offering some super imba guild packages, which is why I started this thread really and to get insight on if people actually LOOK for guild packages.

I always thought for Low Rate PvM ( Which is what most low rates are I assume ) that maybe just a nice starter pack for every character is nice.  I just always think that Guild Packages should remain on WoE Mid/High rate servers.  Don't offer some nutty mvp cards to a low rate guild transfer, I mean really, you're not going to get a population on a low rate like that * I wouldn't think *.

Quote from: Chemical Crush on Nov 22, 2011, 04:12 AM
Did you read my first post?

Probably not.

I said I had seen low rates starting to offer this, and what do people think about it.  :|

Sorry hon I tl;dr'ed you there. Hope you're not mad at me >:
But hey at least I gib opinion k ._.

Any low rates that offers a guild package won't stay stable, economy-based. Hence, giving MvP items on the package is equal to server's death. Let low rate be a normal, clean server that feels like official (except it has some extra NPCs for convenience). No giveaway or ruining old school RO unless you want to completely kill RO.

Quote from: Kensei on Nov 22, 2011, 04:36 AM
Any low rates that offers a guild package won't stay stable, economy-based. Hence, giving MvP items on the package is equal to server's death.

uhh, how the hell does +4 mvp equip in guild package = server death? the strong guilds are never satisfied with +4, they will overupgrade and enchant, and will begin camping the mvps in order to do so and sell some of the mvp loot on the market.
the only guild package mvp item that could kill server, would be mvp card.

Quote from: Kensei on Nov 22, 2011, 04:36 AM
Sorry hon I tl;dr'ed you there. Hope you're not mad at me >:
But hey at least I gib opinion k ._.

It's kay I still lub readin ur posts ;p

Just I noticed it derailed to things other than low rates, which is fine, talking about guild packages on any rate is fine.  I just notice some people have a different opinion of what is imba and what's not.  I just found it quirky that said low rate was offering some serious stuff for guilds like +7 gears and mvp cards.  I was like, wtf kinda low rate is this?!

DISREGARDTHISCAUZE I completely read wat u said wrong ;-;

-is still half sleeps-

Quote from: Chemical Crush on Nov 22, 2011, 11:08 AM
It's kay I still lub readin ur posts ;p

Just I noticed it derailed to things other than low rates, which is fine, talking about guild packages on any rate is fine.  I just notice some people have a different opinion of what is imba and what's not.  I just found it quirky that said low rate was offering some serious stuff for guilds like +7 gears and mvp cards.  I was like, wtf kinda low rate is this?!

Do u still lub me personally then? ;_;

@ Thoth : imo, low-rate's competition is about gearing up and MvPing. if you give even +4 MvP items, it would made things easier, hence less competition. my opinion. low rate should be showing the player growth as the progress. not how the end-product of the player (like full high-end gears, over-upped).

@ Chemi : multi quote my hon D:< and he didn't say MvP card lol. only MvP items (Vset, Dset) etc.

Im still sleepy.  Gimme break D:

I agree though that Low Rates are all about showing growth, PvE wise.  So if you just spoon feed them high end gear they will become bored.  What the heck is there left to do besides try to get the server first +10 of everythingintheworldknowntoRO?

Not saying all Low Rates that are based around PvE, which are most, are boring.  But offering high end MvP gear is just ridiculous, for a Low Rate. 

I remember a low rate I played that seriously just offered some OBBS, OPBS ( Like 5 or something ) and an emp for the guild leader.  I think they also offered something else but I can't remember.  And of course the players were like.  QQ U SHULD OFFER ALL DIS CRAZY GERZ.

I believe people have forgotten what Low Rates are usually about.  I've seen people try to make Low Rates into PvP / WoE servers and it just didn't work, people didn't want to take the time to level or find their gear, which I DO NOT blame them if they just wanna hop on, pwn a few nubs get their gear fairly quickly and all.  Not that I'm saying a Low Rate can't develop good WoE or PvP.  But trying to base the server off of that from the start is usually just a mistake.  Well, to me anyways.

why not make the concept of guild packages completely outdated? not everyone arrives in groups of 10 or 20. if you want woe/bg server, instead...

when people choose a second class, give them some really trashy, unrefinable, char bound versions of the mvp items.  an alch/creo would get:
"broken valk armor" which gives 0 def, 50% stun resist, no stats, no slot, freeze immunity and is unbreakable cuz its already broken.
and
"ugly fish hat" after you saw yourself in the mirror wearing this, nothing will stun you. gives 50% stun resist, 0def, takes up all headgear slots
or a prof gets
"dirty stinky knife" everyone stays away from you, nobody knows where that knife has been! gives 5% demihuman resist, 20 atk.

you could make a whole line of trashy charbound versions of woe essential gears, which cannot be traded or storaged. just enough to compete, and give to everyone who joins server so theres no "guild favoritism" or that one guildie doesnt get left behind. if this is too much for you, then dismiss guild packs entirely.

Funny names and descriptions.
But if you're talking about making custom items and using those that's a whole different dimension you're going to..

Quote from: Strudel on Nov 22, 2011, 01:54 PM
Funny names and descriptions.
But if you're talking about making custom items and using those that's a whole different dimension you're going to..

not really. its just weak imitations of things that are already there.

I think that with that items it would be too much but something as like a set of items[more then 2] being free by doing the normal job quests[1º at novice, 2º swordman, 3º at high sword, 4º at lk for example] and when together you get something needed for woe as a basic thing[that's actually a nice idea!] as 3 pieces of a set = anti-stun for creator, -10% demi for prof, marc for high priest, etc[all without slots and 0 def/mdef] would be nice.
People who know what to do together would get advantage of the said items and get a chance against already geared players that way.

It's like giving a smell of what you should get to play there which would be good I even fr newbies and like making people who don't woe maybe going too getting more competition in the end.

Quote from: Triper on Nov 22, 2011, 03:12 PM
-10% demi for prof,

too much. thats literally a CK replacement. gotta make it less

on that note, one might reduce the stun resist for creo stuff a little so its 80% or so

Still to high considering you can use vit to improve that stun resistance..

Quote from: Strudel on Nov 22, 2011, 04:59 PM
Still to high considering you can use vit to improve that stun resistance..

creos that run vit? you must be one of those kawaii hat GMs  :o
any creo who has vit would lose a creo vs creo matches for sure, and kill the pally devoing him too. nevermind weaking his damage potential.
20vit + 80% resist does not equal 100%. for better or worse. it multiplies instead to be about 84% stun resist and the stun duration would still be terrible. if any good gypsy shows up (they are kinda rare), they'll scream 5 times a second and that creo is going to be permanently stunned and unable to move. nevermind the wizards using the stun bg rod +meteor.
maybe 90% stun resist would be minimum for the free items. then they would at least be able to run away?
force em to kill mvp if they want 100%

Quote from: Thoth on Nov 22, 2011, 04:15 PM
too much. thats literally a CK replacement. gotta make it less

on that note, one might reduce the stun resist for creo stuff a little so its 80% or so

Not if the set wouldn't let you maximize that as a ck let's :P Anyway, it's just an example, probably the better would be a 3 pieces thing using headgear+garment+weapon and give something as 10-12% to demi-human which is like a free feather beret or a large bapho horns[def version] but worse.

Quote from: Strudel on Nov 22, 2011, 04:59 PM
Still to high considering you can use vit to improve that stun resistance..

Creo vs Creo[AD wise, not going into being smart and use other factors], the one with better reduces, can spam faster and have less vit will always win.

In this example, just and only anti-stun free to a creator by, let's say, armor+headgear+garment is the same as saying bye to marc and nox/jakk/marse/whatever people like to use according situations that can be countered[in some factors, not all ofc] with lp[this would also force team strategies change a bit from the usual as they're until everybody is at 100%]. Wouldn't be perfect but would be an ok start. Want better? Hunt the gears but you've already an ok advance and can always swap 1 piece of the set as armor for marc from times to times until you've the -100% anti-stun made as it's usually made. It won't be perfect never ever but will help at the begin on a low rate[I guess] and would even let woe start from the begin of the server since everybody would have start gears to have fun I guess o.O

Quote from: Thoth on Nov 22, 2011, 01:51 PM
when people choose a second class, give them some really trashy, unrefinable, char bound versions of the mvp items.  an alch/creo would get:
"broken valk armor" which gives 0 def, 50% stun resist, no stats, no slot, freeze immunity and is unbreakable cuz its already broken.
and
"ugly fish hat" after you saw yourself in the mirror wearing this, nothing will stun you. gives 50% stun resist, 0def, takes up all headgear slots
or a prof gets
"dirty stinky knife" everyone stays away from you, nobody knows where that knife has been! gives 5% demihuman resist, 20 atk.

What? Lol. Stun resist is a must, but that does not mean it should be obtained easy by that way. So does demihuman resist. The items you suggested are not trashy at all. It acted as substitute for MvP items, hence I could say it's the same as the MvP items itself. No one cares about DEF on WoE today.

And it seems like you be talkin bout WoE on Low Rate? Suggesting this and that. Quit the discussion. Gypsies will own WoE on low-rate mostly due to lack of gears on certain classes. Unless it's high-end guild WoE, you won't be able to see a decent WoE scene.

-brb reading first post so Chemi won't keel me-

When it comes to low rate servers (seeing that I play on one), I don't feel there's a huge need for guild packages. Sure, a small package consisting of emp, few battle manuals for each member and some basic equips (a bit better than the ones you can get from an NPC) sounds nice, but it's not necessary. With a little effort you can get the mentioned equips by farming and I'm sure that the said farming will also give you a bit of experience as well. But then again, this is coming from a player who started on a low rate server over a year ago with nothing and happily got herself 5 trans chars in a bit over a year. :P

High rate - yes, I play high rate for ease not to trouble myself.
Low rate - no, if I was going to play a low rate clearly I would prepare myself to work for things. If I was going to move my guild to one, I would inform them about it not being a giveaway server.

Quote from: Yuzo on Nov 23, 2011, 06:00 AM
High rate - yes, I play high rate for ease not to trouble myself.
Low rate - no, if I was going to play a low rate clearly I would prepare myself to work for things. If I was going to move my guild to one, I would inform them about it not being a giveaway server.

This is how I feel.  High Rate and Mid Rate I can totally see a guild package, I would assume people would join low rates because that means they work for their gear.

Quote from: Chemical Crush on Sep 03, 2011, 09:57 AM
Anyways, gonna go back to playin WoW.  :B

Hop off RMS >:
Soo,

Low rate : don't need gpack at all, since 99% lowrate is PvM server and I don't see why you need a gpack for PvM scene
Mid rate : need gpack the most. players want WoE but some farming for items to kill some time when there's no WoE
High rate : not as much as mid since items are much easier
Super High rate : ....what?

Quote from: Kensei on Nov 23, 2011, 11:04 AM
Hop off RMS >:
Soo,

Low rate : don't need gpack at all, since 99% lowrate is PvM server and I don't see why you need a gpack for PvM scene
Mid rate : need gpack the most. players want WoE but some farming for items to kill some time when there's no WoE
High rate : not as much as mid since items are much easier
Super High rate : ....what?

Pretty much, reason for this thread was to see insight from people who have seen low rates with guild packages.  Cause that day I had ran across several with super op items in said guild package.

Well that and I guess to see if people even care about guild packages.  o.O;

I personally took the guild packages in a different perspective.  The main use of it is for attraction of big guilds, making it the reason why even low rates are starting to use this.  Attempting to start a low rate server myself, I'm currently disabling the guild packages for now and planning to introduce them later in the server.

Reason for that is simply because I want the players to all have a fresh start and build the economy themselves.  When the guild packages are introduced in the server however, the existing guilds would then receive a different package from those who are joining the server later.

What the guild packages offer would even be different from what other servers do with them.  I'm thinking more of the lines of coupons with an expiry date.

Taking all of that in to consideration... Why not, right?
Also, I'm having troubles understanding why everyone seems to be classifying low rates as "mainly PVM"?

-----------------------------

As for the super op items in guild packages:
Server just wants money.

Quote from: Poki on Nov 23, 2011, 03:55 PM
Also, I'm having troubles understanding why everyone seems to be classifying low rates as "mainly PVM"?

Sad, isn't it? Aurora, Poseidon and I are starting a low-rate as well this next month, and we're allowing guild packages, but it will only offer the bare basics, such as one emperium, a few storage passes, and a couple boxes of consumables, such as condensed whites or poison bottles. Those that want OP guild packages can go back to WoE servers where everything is handed on a silver platter and server development is marginal at best.

Quote from: Poki on Nov 23, 2011, 03:55 PM
I personally took the guild packages in a different perspective.  The main use of it is for attraction of big guilds, making it the reason why even low rates are starting to use this.  Attempting to start a low rate server myself, I'm currently disabling the guild packages for now and planning to introduce them later in the server.

Reason for that is simply because I want the players to all have a fresh start and build the economy themselves.  When the guild packages are introduced in the server however, the existing guilds would then receive a different package from those who are joining the server later.

What the guild packages offer would even be different from what other servers do with them.  I'm thinking more of the lines of coupons with an expiry date.

Taking all of that in to consideration... Why not, right?
Also, I'm having troubles understanding why everyone seems to be classifying low rates as "mainly PVM"?

-----------------------------

As for the super op items in guild packages:
Server just wants money.

Easy, why Low Rates are mainly classified as PvM, everyone who wants to do PvP / WoE typically turn to higher rates just so they dont have to work as long/hard for their stuff.  IF all you're interested in is PvP/WoEing wouldn't you want your gear asap?  The faster you get your gear the better you become, faster.  You dont have to constantly hunt for items. 

Again, not saying that Low Rates can't have decent WoE or PvP it's just, usually Low Rates attract people who like the leveling aspect of the game or actually want to work for their stuff, which isn't a whole lot of people really.  ( Cept me I love a good Low Rate ).

As for the super op items and Gms just wanting money, I Figured as much, it just seems retarded for the rest of the community who doesn't have the luxury of being apart of a guild who server hops around.

Quote from: Lysander on Nov 23, 2011, 05:40 PM
Sad, isn't it? Aurora, Poseidon and I are starting a low-rate as well this next month, and we're allowing guild packages, but it will only offer the bare basics

why even bother then? its annoying to get all your guildies online to apply for such things, and some may or may not come later.
the general point is these hyper woe guilds have no patience for stuff like card hunting and want to join bg, yesterday.

Quote from: Thoth on Nov 23, 2011, 07:10 PM
why even bother then? its annoying to get all your guildies online to apply for such things, and some may or may not come later.
the general point is these hyper woe guilds have no patience for stuff like card hunting and want to join bg, yesterday.

Why not bother?  Some guilds will even take that because they take pride in hunting for their own stuff instead of being spoon-fed everything, especially people playing low rates.


IF YOU JOIN A LOW RATE YOU SHOULD BE PREPARED TO HUNT FOR HOURS ON END

ITS A LOW RATE....

Not sure how this got off topic into a debate about which is better, but will state it now:

Super HRs: Server lacks seriousness and a fundamental goal other than just being "there"
HR: For the super-lazy WoE Guild who needs no satisfaction in gear-hunting/etc. It's mostly a PvP environment than a GvG one
MR: WoE Guilds / PvMers / Socializers who appreciate a good balance in things - except, this balance is often thrown off by stupid donations or unfair aspects of play introduced by either a) gravity, or b) the server administration
LR: PvMers, or patient WoE Guilds who want to feel like they deserve what they acquired
Official Servers: People desiring reassurance that the chances of closing are significantly slimmer to that of a pServer. Also known as no-lifes

Very broad classification.

As I think I said before, Guild Packages are meant for MRs+higher rates due to the type of community that's generally attracted. You'll only get hate introducing free MVP Gear on an LR.

^Win.

Where would you draw the line between overpowered donation and non overpowered donation items though? It's a good feedback for my own server.

Quote from: Lysander on Nov 23, 2011, 05:40 PM
Sad, isn't it? Aurora, Poseidon and I are starting a low-rate as well this next month, and we're allowing guild packages, but it will only offer the bare basics, such as one emperium, a few storage passes, and a couple boxes of consumables, such as condensed whites or poison bottles. Those that want OP guild packages can go back to WoE servers where everything is handed on a silver platter and server development is marginal at best.

Those packages are good only for some level. I don't even think that would be enough to make one character go 99/70. In short, 5 minutes spoonfeed and poof, bye guild pack.

The main purpose of Guild Pack is indeed to attract guild to join your server. But what guild you want to attract matters the most. It's made to attract WoE players whose are server hoppers, yet could bring competition that makes server popular. In low-rate, you won't attract WoE guilds, mainly group of people who wants to play oldschool RO and make their own guild. Difference? WoE people could invite at least 3-4 guilds with at least half-roster (25 at minimum). Group of PvM? Max of 10 people and that's it.

So tell me now, what is the purpose of giving guild pack in low rate? I won't even call that guild pack, only 5 mins spoonfeed.

Quote from: Chemical Crush on Nov 23, 2011, 10:12 PM
Why not bother?  Some guilds will even take that because they take pride in hunting for their own stuff instead of being spoon-fed everything, especially people playing low rates.


IF YOU JOIN A LOW RATE YOU SHOULD BE PREPARED TO HUNT FOR HOURS ON END

ITS A LOW RATE....

trash guildpacks are trash. if you offer trash, better for everyone if you just not offer anything at all.

Quote from: Kensei on Nov 24, 2011, 01:11 AM
Those packages are good only for some level. I don't even think that would be enough to make one character go 99/70. In short, 5 minutes spoonfeed and poof, bye guild pack.

The main purpose of Guild Pack is indeed to attract guild to join your server. But what guild you want to attract matters the most. It's made to attract WoE players whose are server hoppers, yet could bring competition that makes server popular. In low-rate, you won't attract WoE guilds, mainly group of people who wants to play oldschool RO and make their own guild. Difference? WoE people could invite at least 3-4 guilds with at least half-roster (25 at minimum). Group of PvM? Max of 10 people and that's it.

So tell me now, what is the purpose of giving guild pack in low rate? I won't even call that guild pack, only 5 mins spoonfeed.

Guilds who are looking for the right oldschool RO to WoE in.  Clearly we have 2 types of WoE guild definitions going on.

WoE guild = guild strictly for woe and wants everything provided to begin woe ASAP
Old WoE guild = guild strictly for woe but wants to go through the grinding phase

Conclusion?  Guild packages still have a meaning for low rates.  As a low rate server, you're not trying to use guild packages to compete with the higher rates, but to those who are near your's.

And yes, players are hypocrites for wanting guild packages on a low rate.  But oh well, it's their call.

Quote from: Poki on Nov 24, 2011, 12:51 PM
And yes, players are hypocrites for wanting guild packages on a low rate.  But oh well, it's their call.

if a server is impressive enough and lasts long enough, they may lose their fear that the server will die in 3months, and not need a guildpack to join.
its all about fear.

Quote from: Thoth on Nov 24, 2011, 10:48 AM
trash guildpacks are trash. if you offer trash, better for everyone if you just not offer anything at all.

Something is better than nothing. 

I'm just pointing out why the hell give out op s*** on a LOW RATE server?  I mean, ya know, unless you don't get the point in joining a low, there are tons of other rates for you if you're too lazy or too busy to hunt for your own items hours on in. 

Quote from: Chemical Crush on Nov 24, 2011, 05:30 PM
Something is better than nothing. 

actually, its not. if its trash, big guilds rather than be motivated by it, may feel insulted or think the gms simply do not know howto run a woe server. and even if its trash, other people will feel left out.
bad vibes all around.

Quote from: Thoth on Nov 24, 2011, 10:46 PM
actually, its not. if its trash, big guilds rather than be motivated by it, may feel insulted or think the gms simply do not know howto run a woe server. and even if its trash, other people will feel left out.
bad vibes all around.

You don't read do you?

Who said the Low Rate was a WoE server?  These were just some random new low rates I came across that were offering +7 crazygears to guilds who transfered and if im not mistaken some mvp crap and some cards.

For a Low Rate, that wasn't even specifically WoE based, that's retarded. 

If they feel offended because the GMs feel they should work for their higher tier gear then OBVIOUSLY they don't need to be playing a Low Rate.  I mean, really.

 :o I guess you are trying to tell me that WoE is not the endgame of RO, but instead its kawaii hats? :o

Quote from: Thoth on Nov 24, 2011, 11:42 PM
:o I guess you are trying to tell me that WoE is not the endgame of RO, but instead its kawaii hats? :o

No, I'm saying if you join a low rate you should expect to work for your s*** instead of being spoonfed like on Mid rates / High Rates.  I mean honestly, hardly anyone joins a Low Rate for WoE and if they do they usually know they have to work for their gear.

Because obviously that is the point in a low rate...hence the LOW RATES.  If you join a low rate and expect to be spoon fed gear or anything for that matter then obviously a low rate isn't for you, I believe I stated this before.

Quote from: Thoth on Nov 24, 2011, 11:42 PM
:o I guess you are trying to tell me that WoE is not the endgame of RO, but instead its kawaii hats? :o

Have to step in. So you're claming War of Emperium is the only thing that keeps a server running? It's the so-called "end game" for ragnarok online?

Quote from: JermZ on Nov 24, 2011, 11:57 PM
Have to step in. So you're claming War of Emperium is the only thing that keeps a server running? It's the so-called "end game" for ragnarok online?

Then tell me what is the end-game of RO.

Renewal and 3rd classes is considered a fail product due to lack of balance already. What else now? PvM? You're satisfied with doing same sh*t all the time with no improvements.

Quote from: Kensei on Nov 25, 2011, 01:53 AM
You're satisfied with doing same sh*t all the time with no improvements.

Some people are fine dealing with the same AI over and over again day after day - while being perfectly happy with it, like me. Sure, playing against another player brings its own bonuses, but if someone's just not interested in PvP/WoE/BG/anything like that at all, then you can't really blame the person for that. I'd rather be a bait for Bio 3 MVPs than get dragged to PvP like events.

You have to agree when I say that each player has their own opinion.

In my opinion, along with quite a few more I'm sure, you come back to Ragnarok Online after quitting it for 2-3 years because of the community and the nostalgic feeling you get from it. It's no doubt RO was a great MMORPG, some chooses to WoE frantically, and by all means, that's an awesome spirit, however you guys kinda just sidetracked all those who has never enjoyed WoE and prefers the, as you all claim, boring activity of sitting and hunting MVPs as a group just to kill time.

Both of these parties form up the community of Ragnarok Online, so depends on which party you belong to, your point of view of what end-game of ragnarok online is may differ. Furthermore, I think end-game isn't the right word, considering how many RO fans are still out there, Ragnarok Online is far from ending.

Quote from: JermZ on Nov 25, 2011, 08:26 AMIn my opinion, along with quite a few more I'm sure, you come back to Ragnarok Online after quitting it for 2-3 years because of the community and the nostalgic feeling you get from it. It's no doubt RO was a great MMORPG, some chooses to WoE frantically, and by all means, that's an awesome spirit, however you guys kinda just sidetracked all those who has never enjoyed WoE and prefers the, as you all claim, boring activity of sitting and hunting MVPs as a group just to kill time.

Think of woe as the saying "Once you go black, you never go back". I used to have no interest at all in woe until I started a few years ago. Now I couldn't care less about PvM.

So, when is someone doing a server with 1/1/100/1 rates and call it woe low rate server?

Ignore dis I screwed up.

i iz forum stoopid

Quote from: Yuzo on Nov 25, 2011, 10:16 AM
Think of woe as the saying "Once you go black, you never go back". I used to have no interest at all in woe until I started a few years ago. Now I couldn't care less about PvM.

This isn't true for everyone, not everyone enjoys the aspect of pvp / woe, even after they try doing it.

Quote from: Triper on Nov 25, 2011, 10:59 AM
So, when is someone doing a server with 1/1/100/1 rates and call it woe low rate server?

Hell, why not?  I'd play a server like that.  I prefer low rates to work for my levels and kinda for my gear, usually low rates just stick with the same 10/10/10 or 5/5/5 and whatnot, I could see someone breaking the cycle and doing something like 3/3/100 or something.  I don't know if it would be successful or not...

But I could see it as being interesting, none the less.

Quote from: Triper on Nov 25, 2011, 10:59 AM
So, when is someone doing a server with 1/1/100/1 rates and call it woe low rate server?

yeah, actually that sounds pretty good. I like the large party aspect of pvm fighting monsters that would crush any soloist. 3/3/50/5 with higher exp taps and bonus for partying sounds best. hell, someone might even do that orc memorial dungeon for a change.
the most boring and worst part of RO is killing the same monster thousands of times to get its card, and soloing is just bad.

Quote from: Thoth on Nov 25, 2011, 12:59 PM
yeah, actually that sounds pretty good. I like the large party aspect of pvm fighting monsters that would crush any soloist. 3/3/50/5 with higher exp taps and bonus for partying sounds best. hell, someone might even do that orc memorial dungeon for a change.
the most boring and worst part of RO is killing the same monster thousands of times to get its card, and soloing is just bad.

I have to agree, although there are -some- people who do enjoy hunting for gear...I don't know why.  I came from the officials and pift, I hated gear/card hunting, I usually just bought it if I had the Zeny. 

Its like, I like instant gratification from getting gear ( myself, not handed to me unless im buying it ) but I like the actual leveling aspect of RO.  Which I guess is why I dislike Midrates +  ( Though sometimes I do play a midrate from time to time but typically get bored easily. )

I can proudly say that I have no "game" nor "end-game" personal factor in regards to RO.

I play the same places over'n over. My only initiative to play is to find cards, level up, and sell to the public. Over'n over.

It's the fact I love repetition that keeps me going. That's why I play Pokemon, the Impossible Game, and Harvest Moon. Isn't it the same crap over'n over? Yet it sells.

Some people have different reasons they play :]

OBJECTION!! You forgot Yu-Gi-Oh! [even if the last season has an awesome story and kinda sucks in the card rules >>].

And yeah, team fun ish ubber funtastik ._. I have done so much stupid stuff with so much random players that is fun.
Want>more bard naked+2sage naked+priest naked+2hunter almost naked necromancer party ftw lol Never had so much fun lving then with that type of random/look impossible to work and kill stuff to lv parties

Quote from: Yusifer on Nov 25, 2011, 03:49 PM
I play the same places over'n over. My only initiative to play is to find cards, level up, and sell to the public. Over'n over.

:o
you poor soul

I agree with Yusi. Dunt poor soul her ):

lol sorry, I just had to say it >.<

I think we can categorize people.

The WoE Elites

- People who "bande" (harhar French thing) together for PvP/GvG/BG Events
- Highly Competitive
- Lots of trolls in this category
- Dramatizers

The Socializers

- People who play RO to party and socialize
- No exact goal other than friend-making / gaining experience
- Some dramatizers

The Suppliers

- People like me who play to get rich / mark the economy in some way
- Love to grind and vend
- Love to be fully equipped to "show off" their equipment / hoard of items
- Knowledgeable of the game, but may not be the best PvPers
- Not dramatizers

The Kawaii-Mad Hatters

- People who amass hats and strive to have the best collection
- Love to quest, esp. for hats
- Always demanding new hats
- Not dramatizers, unless they're Socializers, too

The Trolls

- People who may or may not be good at WoE/PvP, but think they are in either case
- People who play to ruin others' fun and get off on it
- Lazy people. Some WoE Guilds aren't lazy, but if they're trolls, they'll def' be begging for excessive rewards in BG or something
- Always trying to change a server's goal to adhere to them i.e. if it's a Kawaii Hat server, they'll demand it be more WoE-based
- Huge Drama Whores

its like horoscopes and personality tests. many people fit multiple categories and the lines blur.
it should be possible for a server to suite all of these at once, the officials have had all of these. the main barrier seems to GMs who only fit one/two categories and are unable to accommodate the others, or simply reject them.

where would people who like epic pvm parties fit into that? last server I knew of that had that was eternityro years ago, so its understandable if you havent seen that part of the game. people would publicly advertise parties to go places impossible to solo, and if the players didn't know their class they had to learn fast or the others would force them out. this only seems possible on a low rate, and increases the general skill level of the player base.

Of course, there's a grey area, but that's the main idea really.

Also,

Quoteso its understandable if you havent seen that part of the game

Any more obnoxious? I've played for minimum six years, I've been around before Thor and Nameless, back when AD and EDP were sacred in WoE and people weren't using 3k AD/WoE. I was around when people had huge parties to Bio, back when Anubis didn't exist, neither did BG nor WoE: SE.

It's really annoying to see you talk down to people you don't even know. Seriously. Stop it.

Quote from: Yusifer on Nov 27, 2011, 09:37 PM
Of course, there's a grey area, but that's the main idea really.

Also,

Any more obnoxious? I've played for minimum six years, I've been around before Thor and Nameless, back when AD and EDP were sacred in WoE and people weren't using 3k AD/WoE. I was around when people had huge parties to Bio, back when Anubis didn't exist, neither did BG nor WoE: SE.

It's really annoying to see you talk down to people you don't even know. Seriously. Stop it.

Wrong topic, but one thing that ruined RO is people who live in the stone age of a stone age game.

Quote from: Yuzo on Nov 27, 2011, 10:29 PM
Wrong topic, but one thing that ruined RO is people who live in the stone age of a stone age game.

She doesn't live in teh 'stone age' of the game, she is simply stating that she has played for a long time.  And thats your opinion on what ruined RO.  There isn't 'one specific' thing that has 'ruined' the game.

I'm saying I have experience, unlike what Thoth was insinuating about me.

Also, Yuzo, seems you don't have experience in basic comprehension / analysis. Did you take Workplace-leveled courses, or are you a drop-out or something? Rather, even dropouts wouldn't fail that hard /sorry

Best of wishes to you in your future education- and character-wise. No sarcasm intended; I truly wish you'll better yourself so we won't have to deal with you on welfare or something later on.

Quote from: Yusifer on Nov 27, 2011, 11:37 PM
I'm saying I have experience, unlike what Thoth was insinuating about me.

Also, Yuzo, seems you don't have experience in basic comprehension / analysis. Did you take Workplace-leveled courses, or are you a drop-out or something? Rather, even dropouts wouldn't fail that hard /sorry

Best of wishes to you in your future education- and character-wise. No sarcasm intended; I truly wish you'll better yourself so we won't have to deal with you on welfare or something later on.

Why don't you add another category to that list of yours? The category of people who post on forums god-tier style who don't participate in woe (or pvp?). These are the type of people who fire the "WoE Elites" up by chatting about their vast knowledge of RO, e.g. like what you see on kawaii-desu-hat servers which people try to woe on.

You add it if you want. Never said those were set-in-stone categories.

I also forgot the nolifers. Hum. But I guess that's an extreme version of a Supplier.

Quote from: Yusifer on Nov 27, 2011, 11:48 PM
You add it if you want. Never said those were set-in-stone categories.

I also forgot the nolifers. Hum. But I guess that's an extreme version of a Supplier.

Its the ultimate category, it mixes the annoying ego of a woe elite, insanely active on the forums (socialiser), they troll with their "I'm better than you" style of typing and they generally either don't play RO or just sit in town displaying their hats.

And that is the type of person I really hate. It is the reason I left my previous server because there an insane amount of them (like never seen before).

Quote from: Yusifer on Nov 27, 2011, 11:37 PM
I'm saying I have experience, unlike what Thoth was insinuating about me.

btw, if you haven't noticed, I sometimes fit in the troll category  :o

people who pull the "senior citizen" card aren't impressing anyone. they often like to say that they are better than everyone else because they've been around longer, or somesuch.
in places filled with people like this, arguments and examples can be amazing.
time does not always bring Alzheimer's, or wisdom. I'd say death is a pretty safe bet though.

Quote from: Thoth on Nov 28, 2011, 09:13 AM
btw, if you haven't noticed, I sometimes fit in the troll category  :o

people who pull the "senior citizen" card aren't impressing anyone. they often like to say that they are better than everyone else because they've been around longer, or somesuch.
in places filled with people like this, arguments and examples can be amazing.
time does not always bring Alzheimer's, or wisdom. I'd say death is a pretty safe bet though.

People who pull the troll category isn't impressing anyone either, just makes you look like a total douche who has no life except to sit here and bring other people down because you find it 'amusing' when usually you just look like a total jackass who isn't welcome on forums.

Quote from: Yusifer on Nov 27, 2011, 03:58 PM
I think we can categorize people.

List is so true :D

For the guild packages, I think they're a good idea. But only modest ones. Battle Manuals, basic equips which you can NPC buy, and enough supplies for 3/4 WoEs.

Quote from: Chemical Crush on Nov 28, 2011, 10:05 AM
People who pull the troll category isn't impressing anyone either, just makes you look like a total douche who has no life except to sit here and bring other people down because you find it 'amusing' when usually you just look like a total jackass who isn't welcome on forums.

I'm crushed~

this kindof thread makes you wonder how official servers ever managed to accomodate the varied players they have

Quote from: Thoth on Nov 28, 2011, 01:06 PM
I'm crushed~

this kindof thread makes you wonder how official servers ever managed to accomodate the varied players they have

Officials have been around long enough to have good WoE, I assume ( I haven't played them in a while now ).  They've had tons of events which give away hats which are in the market which is stable ( usually ) because of large population.  You REALLY can't compare an official server with most private servers, why?  Cause they've been around longer, they have more people, more competition, usually a steady market, tons of bots to support said market ( at least on International Ragnarok Online ) I mean there honestly just is no comparing. 

This topic has veer'ed way off topic, because this is about guild packages.  Not the official servers, not about pathetic trolls who have no life, not about people stepping on their soap box. 

Guild packages.

So keep on topic, all of us ( including me ).

Some people just ask to be trolled. I can't hold back on numerous stupidity post from a single person.

iRO woe's aren't even fun anymore. 3rd jobs killed it. Just watch some of Afrikans iRO WoE videos and you'll understand. Also lol at there ever being decent comp on officials. Maybe back in 2007 cause all the cash shop crap made woe somewhat interesting for about a year

Back on topic...

I know I've posted in this thread somewhere before, but high teir guild packages like the OP mentioned is just absurd for a low rate. Your either going to cater to the WoE players (which you might as well just make it a high rate, or kill pvm completely), or you cater to the PvM players who probably don't even care about WoE anyways. You can't balance it out decently like you can on a mid rate. Competition hasn't been good on a low rate since eternityRO which tells you WoE players aren't interested in such rates.

You can still offer guild packages just not high rate guild packages. I think an emperium and a few guild lvls would suffice most low rate guilds.

I believe we're all human enough to discuss a topic without having to attack each other with words words words. Try to keep it a bit civil or I'll have to lock this one :/

Quote from: leokimah on Nov 28, 2011, 02:27 PM
Some people just ask to be trolled. I can't hold back on numerous stupidity post from a single person.

iRO woe's aren't even fun anymore. 3rd jobs killed it. Just watch some of Afrikans iRO WoE videos and you'll understand. Also lol at there ever being decent comp on officials. Maybe back in 2007 cause all the cash shop crap made woe somewhat interesting for about a year

I honestly wasn't sure, I played back before 3rds were introduced, before they had valkyrie ( the free server ) I just figured maybe guild comp was still decent.   I did play after they made valkyrie, but not much.  Thats when I noticed a lot of bots ( well... there were probably a lot when I played before but I didn't notice ) fueling the market. 

Quote
Back on topic...

I know I've posted in this thread somewhere before, but high teir guild packages like the OP mentioned is just absurd for a low rate. Your either going to cater to the WoE players (which you might as well just make it a high rate, or kill pvm completely), or you cater to the PvM players who probably don't even care about WoE anyways. You can't balance it out decently like you can on a mid rate. Competition hasn't been good on a low rate since eternityRO which tells you WoE players aren't interested in such rates.

You can still offer guild packages just not high rate guild packages. I think an emperium and a few guild lvls would suffice most low rate guilds.

Yeah, I think, if anything, the guild package on Low Rates should be more steer'ed to help PvMness, if there even is one.  I still say no guild package and just a small 'starter' package for each player should be fine.  ( Like...some kinda novice package or something I dunno ).  IF there is a guild package just an emp and a few guild levels or maybe 2 ~ 5 Battle Manuals for each player is fine.  But thats really it, since most people play Low Rates to work for their stuff and yada yada.




*Edit*

Thank you Relics. 

Quote from: Relics on Nov 28, 2011, 04:02 PM
I believe we're all human enough to discuss a topic without having to attack each other with words words words. Try to keep it a bit civil or I'll have to lock this one :/

Where I come from this is just another office chat.

Seems like I've missed alot but meh, since I answered enough to topic just lemme answer some interesting posts I've missed.

Quote from: Yusifer on Nov 27, 2011, 03:58 PM
I think we can categorize people.

The WoE Elites
- Dramatizers

The Socializers
- Some dramatizers

The Suppliers
- Not dramatizers

The Kawaii-Mad Hatters
- Not dramatizers, unless they're Socializers, too

The Trolls
- Huge Drama Whores

Pretty much wr0nk. Call me WoE freak or trolls or w/e but the #1 dramatizers are mostly social people for all I've seen. Especially those who loves to hop on to admins/staffs w/e. Best dramatizer, no offense.

I could explain each one of the details on which is right and wrong but this topic is not talking about categorization so I'll just point that one.

I didn't mention a scale :o the dramatizers in the Social section are really bad in comparison, but nonetheless :x I see more people talking smack over #main and broadcast about WoE-related stuff than about friendship issues. WoE people can be Socializers, too, is all mixed up.

>: BUT YESH WE SHALL GO BACK ON TOPIC AND SAY...

Guild Packages need to stay on MRs+, join LRs knowing you need to work for everything.

Guild pack doesn't depend on your server rates, but more to server orientation.

PvM server won't really need a guild pack that contains like MvP gears or w/e. What they need are simple stuff to help them for the beginning like what Aurora is going to offer on her server, but I'd say it's better to make those freebies instead. Every player needs them, as an individual. Being a guild is not a must to get freebies / helping items on lowrate.

WoE server however, needs them more. Because most of WoE players are server hoppers who is looking for competition. It's not really fun for those people to farm all over. That's why they asked for at least some convenience so they could reduce the time for farming and could prepare for WoE faster.

Talk about rates and orientation, most servers are :

Low rate = old school PvM
Mid rate = mostly WoE-oriented which still include PvM features (needs gpack the most)
High rate = random PvP, PvM. a few WoE but easy gearing (doesn't really need gpack with so many items)
Super high rate = wat is dis I dun even...

Muchlove.

Quote from: Chemical Crush on Nov 28, 2011, 01:18 PM
This topic has veer'ed way off topic

has it? guild packages are just another feature servers use to raise their population, or steal people away from other servers.
official servers have not needed to use this, because they have other competing features. their population is higher as a result.

Quote from: Thoth on Nov 29, 2011, 12:02 PM
has it? guild packages are just another feature servers use to raise their population, or steal people away from other servers.
official servers have not needed to use this, because they have other competing features. their population is higher as a result.

If you don't see how it veer'd off topic then something is wrong with you.  Obviously guild packages are to attract other people but sometimes too much is too much and thats the point in this thread, sharing what you feel is an appropriate guild package for what rate and if its WoE oriented or PvM oriented. 

So yes, for a bit people were getting off topic and ranting at each other or whatever.  And that ends now, either you post about the topic or I will have Relics / yC close it.

A server's rates don't always, necessarily dictate what kind of server it is.  You can have a HR without WoE or BG implemented, thus making it a PVM/MVP HR; you can have a LR with a BG supplier that gives you consumables, cards, gear, even lvls thus making it a WoE+BG LR; you can have MRs with WoE disabled, BG supplier, and boosted MVP drops thus making it a MVP+BG MR; or any combination therein. 

What determines a server's direction is its features more than its rates.  Of course, it doesn't happen often that you get a LR with a PVM Item supplier and instant lvl 99/70 NPC, but what I'm saying is that because that can be implemented completely independent of a server's rates being 3/3/2 or 30k/30k/2k, that rates alone don't mean a server is PVM/WoE+BG/MVP.  In addtion, just being a Low Rate doesn't mean that your drop rates can't be high; a 3/3/1000 server would count as a LR judging by RMS's standards.  1k drops makes it incredibly easier to get high class gear like the Diab set and fueling up various consumables for WoE--but it's still a low rate!

Now that I've said that, Guild Packages are much more alluring to WoE+BG servers.  You can have Guild Packages on LRs, but to include end-game mvp stuff like +7 Diab Gear means that your server has a strong desire to be a WoE+BG LR, which is so weird and uncommon, it'll shock more players than lure them.  It's not entirely a death-stroke for a server to offer MVP gear for Guild Packages--if that server's goal is to be extremely competitve WoE+BG with low rates for lvling or getting gear and discourage PVM/Kawaii Hat Makers from joining the server.  Perhaps this could even encourage more players into BG since you could level there faster than PVM-wise, or something.

I think LRs used to be WoE-orientated back when they were the only ones around.

Most players have suffered so many losses, though, during their playtime on LRs, that WoE enthouists turn to MRs now - which means Guild Packages, etc. LRs are generally for people who aren't as focused towards that aspect of the game. They like it, but PvM > rawr

Quote from: Yusifer on Nov 29, 2011, 05:56 PM
I think LRs used to be WoE-orientated back when they were the only ones around.

Most players have suffered so many losses, though, during their playtime on LRs, that WoE enthouists turn to MRs now - which means Guild Packages, etc. LRs are generally for people who aren't as focused towards that aspect of the game. They like it, but PvM > rawr

I have no idea if LR's used to be WoE oriented, I just think they aren't now ( or there is no serious WoE on any of them really ) because people are iffy about joining Low Rates, servers come and go so easily now a days and why would you wanna spend a long time on a server that you don't know will last very long?   I guess thats why I, at least, associate Mid + rates as WoE oreinted servers *usually*.  People don't want to work so hard on a low rate only to have it all shattered randomly one day and have to start over again, so mid rates+ is best for WoE servers, imo.    I like Low Rates cause I prefer the PvM scene, not saying I can't have an enjoyable PvM scene on any other type of rate, but I level too fast and become slightly uninterested.

That being said, if there was a WoE oriented Low Rate ( I mean really serious about some hardcore WoE action? ) then I would like to see a WoE oriented Guild Package, but if it isn't catered to WoE ( the server i mean ) then I wouldn't want to see this. 

Well, if there were ONLY LRs, then there would have had to be a serious WoE scene at one point on 'em.

Even then, the only give-away I'd like to see is an Emp, a couple battle manuals, and maybe a few true-basic equipment such as slotted Chainmail or something.

Epic pack to Newbies that arrives to RO LAND on a low rate.
Male player - 10z, a beer, a pic of an awesome girl[justin bieber ofc and then a BOOM TROLL FACE 5 secs later with some wtf song in the background] and you're ready to go
Female player - 50z, a strawberry cupcake, a pic of justin bieber and a warn in yellow letters in the top saying "Sorry, Admin and GMs in this server are all male and doesn't have female friends aside stripers, hope Bieber is good enough to you *^_^*"

Both chars get always a Troll Face Pet that doesn't need to be eat nothing and just tells random trolololol jokes every 5 minutes and you can't spam for more.

The player also receives a char bound item called NOOB!! and have the icon of a chocolate cookie that when you die for the first time and are 99/70 your Troll Pet evolves to Masta Troll and start telling to everybody how much you fail at PvP.

Quote from: Yusifer on Nov 29, 2011, 10:07 PM
Well, if there were ONLY LRs, then there would have had to be a serious WoE scene at one point on 'em.

Even then, the only give-away I'd like to see is an Emp, a couple battle manuals, and maybe a few true-basic equipment such as slotted Chainmail or something.

LR got serious WoE scene when people still fap on RO. Now there are only like 10% of them who still can get boner to RO, they moved to higher rate server for WoE. (easiest and most understandable explanation for y'all!)

Yeah I know a give away for low-rate is good but asking them to be a guild to get the giveaway is just too much. I don't know how much of a butthurt is giving a low-tier item is on a private server but seriously now, it won't kill to give a low-tier item to each character.

@ Chemi : even if there is a LR WoE server, it won't attract as much as how MR WoE server attracts WoE players. And obviously, the LR WoE players' quality would be even below low-tier (in which, LR people are mostly people who wants to enjoy old school RO, not the high-end RO which is WoE).

@ CrispyKitten : LR? WoE/BG oriented in which items are obtainable there? Are you kidding me? In LR it's pretty obvious badge rates are going to be lower, less supplies obtainable for BG in which those means BG will be run half-assed with people thinking thousand times before asura/edp/acid demo. That doubt will cause the rise of trash WoE classes like aspd-wh0re sinx, zerk LK, etc, which will even degrade WoE players quality. Even though if the server could run, again, the players quality are going to be lower than low-tier mostly.

Second point, low exp rates but high drop rates is just terrible. Players are not going to just make one fixed character, max level and gear it, then will WoE with the same class all the time until he/she quits. How if they need to roll another class? Make another character? In a LR server, how long do you think it will take to max out one character? I'd rather waste my time on killing random MvP than leveling all over again on a 9/10 years old game.

Quote from: Chemical Crush on Nov 29, 2011, 04:01 PM
And that ends now, either you post about the topic or I will have Relics / yC close it.

ah, but I was on topic. didnt you notice?

Quote from: Thoth on Nov 29, 2011, 12:02 PM
has it? guild packages are just another feature servers use to raise their population, or steal people away from other servers.
official servers have not needed to use this, because they have other competing features. their population is higher as a result.

I'm saying that if your server has features good enough to outclass other servers, then guild packs will be unnecessary.

Quote from: Kensei on Nov 30, 2011, 01:16 AM
That doubt will cause the rise of trash WoE classes like aspd-wh0re sinx, zerk LK, etc, which will even degrade WoE players quality.

thats a pretty elitist attitude. such "trash" classes you speak of can give the "pro" classes a run for their money on low rates. because edp/bombs do cost something.
ofc, once people have something, they don't want to go back to not having it. be it easy access to pvp ammo or guild pack items and such. but giving away free stuff is just not enough to maintain a server- gwro is the perfect example. all items were available for free at npc, but its all but dead now.
pvm is another form of competition that keeps people going whether they like it or not...

Quote from: Thoth on Nov 30, 2011, 02:10 AM
thats a pretty elitist attitude. such "trash" classes you speak of can give the "pro" classes a run for their money on low rates. because edp/bombs do cost something.

Can't avoid the fact that I played those "trash" classes as well, but I saw already on how terrible those are already in a proper WoE, that's why I called them "trash" - in terms of WoE, not on all RO aspects since all they can do is distract GvG action or ninja emp, which is pretty much a disturbing scene. Those are not pretty much made for a guild-war, but as individual class in which they could go run like a b0ss on PvM or low supplies to no items PvP.

I never disagree with the statement edp/bombs do cost something. But having a limited stock of them means pretty much terrible. Imagine WoEing as a chem, in which you got alot of guilds competing, 2 hours, but you have a limited stock of 1k bombs while you are expected to GvGing at least one full hour. After 1k bombs out, chems prolly cant do anything (assume you're dd chem, not spp). That is why LR WoE will ends up in failure. And what kind of no-life would farm to supply whole guild? It's not like RO is a new game, most exciting, nor the best MMO ever. Plus, you can't ignore real life just for farming in LR server (unless you're 100% nolife out there)

Quote from: Thoth on Nov 30, 2011, 02:10 AM
ah, but I was on topic. didnt you notice?

Why do you assume I'm talking specifically about you?  Stop, you're not everything here on RMS.  Yusifer, Myself and some other dude on here got off topic as well as you.  Especially when it got to talking about 'catagories' of people who play RO, which btw, have nothing to do with guild packages. Again, end of that talk right now.

Quote from: Kensei@ Chemi : even if there is a LR WoE server, it won't attract as much as how MR WoE server attracts WoE players. And obviously, the LR WoE players' quality would be even below low-tier (in which, LR people are mostly people who wants to enjoy old school RO, not the high-end RO which is WoE).

That's what I'd assume, that the whole WoE scene would obviously be different from a low rate compared to a Mid+ rate anyways.  I guess that's why I don't really see WoE oriented Low Rates, I mean it makes sense.  I just don't see why PvM Oriented Low Rates were offering crazy +7~9 gears and a butt load of card type items in their guild pack, just made me go /omg.  But, I assume it was their cheap way of trying to get players to join their low rate pvm server.  o_o;  Then again, as someone mentioned, guild packs are there to 'lure' people to their server.  I dunno, imo on a low rate that makes me think, 'I don't really wanna join this server'.  That's just my opinion though, I know there are people with different opinions and views on low rates.

Quote from: Kensei on Nov 30, 2011, 01:16 AM
LR? WoE/BG oriented in which items are obtainable there? Are you kidding me? In LR it's pretty obvious badge rates are going to be lower, less supplies obtainable for BG in which those means BG will be run half-assed with people thinking thousand times before asura/edp/acid demo. That doubt will cause the rise of trash WoE classes like aspd-wh0re sinx, zerk LK, etc, which will even degrade WoE players quality. Even though if the server could run, again, the players quality are going to be lower than low-tier mostly.

Second point, low exp rates but high drop rates is just terrible. Players are not going to just make one fixed character, max level and gear it, then will WoE with the same class all the time until he/she quits. How if they need to roll another class? Make another character? In a LR server, how long do you think it will take to max out one character? I'd rather waste my time on killing random MvP than leveling all over again on a 9/10 years old game.

No, Kensei, you completely missed my point by assuming typical LR server styles of today instead of suspending those presumptions and imagining the ones I mentioned.

Let me make it simpler:  Imagine ChronosRO/VisionRO/NeuRO's BG Supplier on a server with 3/3/2 rates.  It'd still be a LR because of the rates, but it'd be WoE+BG oriented because of the features, most notably the PVM BG Supplier.  I'm not arguing about how good these servers would be, or how good the players on these server would be, because that's not what this topic is about.  It's about "Why in the World would someone implement Guild Packages with +7 MVP gear on a LR server".  Hell, even on MRs and HRs, just because a server offers +7 MVP gear in guild packages doesn't mean you still wont have those same trash, aspd-wh0re sinx players.

Plus, a 3/3/1k server would still be a Low Rate.  So why in the world would someone going to play a 3x rate server expect to level up fast?  No offense, but that perspective ("How if they need to roll another class? Make another character? In a LR server, how long do you think it will take to max out one character?") is more of a MR/HR players perspective, than a Low Rate players--which, again, is what the OP was asking about.  Having the higher drop rates would mean you could gear out your character before transing, so you don't end up being 99/70 with just a pantie, undershirt, and Hunter Bow to your name.  In addition, if you add a PVM BG Supplier that offers some exp for Medals, you could end up with even more players in BG than PVM because they'll level there faster, which is the purpose of a BG server if I'm not mistaken.  Luring more ppl into BG, I mean.

Quote from: CrispyKitten on Nov 30, 2011, 01:23 PM
Plus, a 3/3/1k server would still be a Low Rate.  So why in the world would someone going to play a 3x rate server expect to level up fast?  No offense, but that perspective ("How if they need to roll another class? Make another character? In a LR server, how long do you think it will take to max out one character?") is more of a MR/HR players perspective, than a Low Rate players--which, again, is what the OP was asking about.  Having the higher drop rates would mean you could gear out your character before transing, so you don't end up being 99/70 with just a pantie, undershirt, and Hunter Bow to your name.  In addition, if you add a PVM BG Supplier that offers some exp for Medals, you could end up with even more players in BG than PVM because they'll level there faster, which is the purpose of a BG server if I'm not mistaken.  Luring more ppl into BG, I mean.

What you're kinda off is, you expect people to BG for Exp is quite a terrible idea imo. Unless what you mean is, you just need to max out one character, farm medals, make another character, feed it medals. If it's so, then it's cool. The terrible thing here would be on beginning of server, BG would be quite filled with killer classes and players would hesitate to spend badges for BG because medals will have more use, in which it could end in a terrible BG environment for some time.

Well idk your idea exactly, but after first sentence is my guess about your idea. If it's not really what you mean, I couldn't imagine how messed up a LR WoE server would be. Tbh 1k drop rates does not mean it will be easier for you to get ready for action. Gears are important but that does not mean Level is not as important as gears. That's why there's barely any server that dare to implement a big gap on Level and Drop rates.