GGRO Closed

[Ewol]

Humpy you're one of Cookies b****. Just because there is a record of who donated doesn't mean Cookie never took it.. hell it's even time stamped before hotshots post. Combined with Cookies past it's obvious who people will believe.

Cookie did take the donation money. Cookie did abuse his position and take complete control of the server. As much as I dislike hotshot, it's almost entirely on Cookie. I mean at least Hotshot admitted his part in all of this.

[tezushi]

This is the reason why I don't play on any servers where Cookie is involved. Sure, his name alone pulls a lot of players in to playing, but sooner or later it all goes to s***.

Now you guys know better or maybe not. 

[Noble]

Minus the fact that Reality is running it and his last server AeonRO lasted for 2 months(?) OnceRO looks like a decent mid-rate that's not super customy, just didn't see any ggRO people there.

if I may reply to this in defense of Reality, I'll try to be short and avoid off topic.
it is true that Aeon-Ro didn't last long and I already gave my reasons why this happened in my Aeon-ro review (see the servers review thread),
basically (according to my personal opinion)  Reality planned his previous server mostly alone and now, for sure, he learnt from his mistake of not having a solid GM team and an overload of work to do alone. Also, it is not a secret that Vivid-Ro is a re built of Aeon-Ro, not just like many other servers that call themselves "new" and if you really pay attention to them nothing has been developed (for example, what happened to Talis RO v2? CaseRO? )

Anyway, to "stay on topic", I still don't understand why those servers of Cookie are so debated yet people are interested in joining them.
I mean, he has the power and the ability (and rights?) to build as many servers he wants/need and I see nothing wrong with this, what is wrong is players still following him and trusting someone who's so dodgy. Same thought goes to those GM that hire him (?)
Honestly I think that Cookie is an donkey (according on what I've been reading about him, and his dodgy replies on each topic about him) but at the same time I admire his capability to fool us.
But oh well, bad publicity apparently works, and it works well. To my point of view I'd completely stop posting thread about him and his server or even talk about him, perhaps this way his ego may deflates

[Wyvern]

As far as I know, the biggest reason people joined ggRO was because of the population it was going to bring at the start (because of HotshotGG), but then while it was still in development, Hotshot hired Cookie and that made some people angry and others leave, but the rest stayed because of the population, and some just didn't mind him.

After a few certain decisions made in the server (by both Hotshot and the staff), I knew it was going to fail sooner or later.

[betwixtbetween]

My favorite part was where he accused Cookie of draining all the donation money from the server's Paypal account. It's funny because, from what I understand, Hotshot can't even find the transaction logs without help.

You're acting like asking for something completely invalidates what cookie has done.

But then again youre one of cookie's butt buddies.

[King Alex]

I don't know how you chumps missed Cookie's foreshadowing.

I see some familiar ggRO faces on EstlandRO, VividRO, and AevaRO. Just depends on what rates you like since all of those are pretty close to official settings. EstlandRO has a sizable russian pop, AevaRO has a sizable filipino pop, and VividRO hasn't opened yet.

if I may reply to this in defense of Reality, I'll try to be short and avoid off topic.
it is true that Aeon-Ro didn't last long and I already gave my reasons why this happened in my Aeon-ro review (see the servers review thread),
basically (according to my personal opinion)  Reality planned his previous server mostly alone and now, for sure, he learnt from his mistake of not having a solid GM team and an overload of work to do alone. Also, it is not a secret that Vivid-Ro is a re built of Aeon-Ro, not just like many other servers that call themselves "new" and if you really pay attention to them nothing has been developed (for example, what happened to Talis RO v2? CaseRO? )

Anyway, to "stay on topic", I still don't understand why those servers of Cookie are so debated yet people are interested in joining them.
I mean, he has the power and the ability (and rights?) to build as many servers he wants/need and I see nothing wrong with this, what is wrong is players still following him and trusting someone who's so dodgy. Same thought goes to those GM that hire him (?)
Honestly I think that Cookie is an donkey (according on what I've been reading about him, and his dodgy replies on each topic about him) but at the same time I admire his capability to fool us.
But oh well, bad publicity apparently works, and it works well. To my point of view I'd completely stop posting thread about him and his server or even talk about him, perhaps this way his ego may deflates

Minus the fact that Reality is running it and his last server AeonRO lasted for 2 months(?) OnceRO looks like a decent mid-rate that's not super customy, just didn't see any ggRO people there.

Since ggRO died I wanted to give players an idea of what to expect in before they join the following servers, i.e. OnceRO, EstlandRO and Vivid-RO.

OnceRO started out doing pretty well, but as the server grew the burden became to much on the GM team.
At the start their focus was more on the PvM community so donation items were only obtainable through donations(not anymore), bg was neglected and so on.
On top of that support was slow due to the size of server and the amount of request. Moreover, the admin also made Case-RO in the past which abruptly closed.
Right now, quite some changes were made that was suggested in the past. However, it seems like in terms of competition for woe they might not recover.

EstlandRO is doing well in terms of population. It seems to be steady. However, the community seems to be split between an english-speaking community and a russian one.
Their forums are divided into 2 sections as well which pushes the language barrier even further.  Suggestions that are made can either be accepted by the russian or english speaking community without the other party even knowing what was suggested. Also, the admin team seems to struggle with english as well. This makes me believe that the admin team seems to be more favorable towards the russian community simply because it is easier to communicate with them. Lastly, there are guilds towns and there is no mainchat.
In short, decision-making is sluggish, language barrier makes it hard for individuals to blend in.

VividRO has GM Reality as an admin who is affiliated with Cookie.
I am sure I don't have to add more than this.

So I am not sure where players will go, but there seems to be no decent server out there...


As for GGro I saw this coming from a mile away hence I didn't want to join the moment cookie became part of the admin team.
I guess to the thousand of other players.

I told you so.

[Wyvern]

It was still fun while it lasted, especially pre-trans.

[fugg:D:D]

As much as I dislike hotshot, it's almost entirely on Cookie. I mean at least Hotshot admitted his part in all of this.

That's not really fair, it was Hotshot that had a completely moronic attitude towards the community and literally ragequit the server when things blew up in his face. Then he has the audacity to call the community immature/toxic. Yeah yeah, f*** outta here you piece of s***.
He definitely had his part to play in the downfall of the server. Everyone warned him about Cookie, many people instantly bailed etc. and he chose him anyways, and in fact made it a point to defend him like a good goy. And I'm not sure I believe the "there was nobody else guise really I swear" part.
That's like buying a rabid dog and then blaming the dog for biting you.
And as far as Hotshot "admitting his part" goes, all he did was blame everything on Cookie and say "If I could turn back time I would have never chosen him blabla", sure it's not like people warned you right? Seemed more like damage control to get himself out of the blame game to me.

The process of how ggro died has been detailed on the reddit anyway.
I'm sure people were able to have fun on the server regardless of its death, I don't think any rational and non-ignorant person would have expected this thing to last for very long ever since Hotshot bailed and Cookie took over (which became pretty obvious among the community even though they kept it a "secret").

[betwixtbetween]

That's not really fair, it was Hotshot that had a completely moronic attitude towards the community and literally ragequit the server when things blew up in his face. Then he has the audacity to call the community immature/toxic. Yeah yeah, f*** outta here you piece of s***.
He definitely had his part to play in the downfall of the server. Everyone warned him about Cookie, many people instantly bailed etc. and he chose him anyways, and in fact made it a point to defend him like a good goy. And I'm not sure I believe the "there was nobody else guise really I swear" part.
That's like buying a rabid dog and then blaming the dog for biting you.
And as far as Hotshot "admitting his part" goes, all he did was blame everything on Cookie and say "If I could turn back time I would have never chosen him blabla", sure it's not like people warned you right? Seemed more like damage control to get himself out of the blame game to me.

You have to blame iro scrubs for that, someone in their guild s*** talked hotshot so much that they made him post that "ban woe guilds" fiasco

[Noble]

Since ggRO died I wanted to give players an idea of what to expect in before they join the following servers, i.e. OnceRO, EstlandRO and Vivid-RO.

OnceRO started out doing pretty well, but as the server grew the burden became to much on the GM team.
At the start their focus was more on the PvM community so donation items were only obtainable through donations(not anymore), bg was neglected and so on.
On top of that support was slow due to the size of server and the amount of request. Moreover, the admin also made Case-RO in the past which abruptly closed.
Right now, quite some changes were made that was suggested in the past. However, it seems like in terms of competition for woe they might not recover.

EstlandRO is doing well in terms of population. It seems to be steady. However, the community seems to be split between an english-speaking community and a russian one.
Their forums are divided into 2 sections as well which pushes the language barrier even further.  Suggestions that are made can either be accepted by the russian or english speaking community without the other party even knowing what was suggested. Also, the admin team seems to struggle with english as well. This makes me believe that the admin team seems to be more favorable towards the russian community simply because it is easier to communicate with them. Lastly, there are guilds towns and there is no mainchat.
In short, decision-making is sluggish, language barrier makes it hard for individuals to blend in.

VividRO has GM Reality as an admin who is affiliated with Cookie.
I am sure I don't have to add more than this.

So I am not sure where players will go, but there seems to be no decent server out there...


As for GGro I saw this coming from a mile away hence I didn't want to join the moment cookie became part of the admin team.
I guess to the thousand of other players.

I told you so.

Well I guess I have the duty to defend our server Vivid-Ro

You may not have to add more to what you said, but I do and I am sure you may get a reply from Reality soon, who can explain his position better than me.
Anyway Reality has been a GM with Cookie in a previous server and it's not a secret, however this fact doesn't imply that Reality is linked to Cookie. If I had to be affiliated with all the "bad" GMs I've been working with then I'd consider myself on the bad list of Santa Claus (I guess)?

As for the Cookie side, I think he's the only one who always have been true to himself, for what I know he pretty much never changed his modus operandi, so it is up to us to follow and trust him or to keep away from him as Reality and many players did.

[King Alex]

Well I guess I have the duty to defend our server Vivid-Ro

You may not have to add more to what you said, but I do and I am sure you may get a reply from Reality soon, who can explain his position better than me.
Anyway Reality has been a GM with Cookie in a previous server and it's not a secret, however this fact doesn't imply that Reality is linked to Cookie. If I had to be affiliated with all the "bad" GMs I've been working with then I'd consider myself on the bad list of Santa Claus (I guess)?

As for the Cookie side, I think he's the only one who always have been true to himself, for what I know he pretty much never changed his modus operandi, so it is up to us to follow and trust him or to keep away from him as Reality and many players did.

Not a secret? Maybe not now, but at the time. I sure didn't see reality stepping up and telling players that Yata was an image used by Cookie.
That already lowers ones credibility.

[yC]

I too don't understand how Cookie can keep coming back to ruin things the way he do it.  The writing was on the wall and whoever this Jat is said Cookie wouldn't go anywhere near the database or server access? http://forum.ratemyserver.net/server-discussion/ggro-hiring-cookie-read-this-before-you-consider-joining/

But it ended up Cookie gaining control of everything and then ran the server into the ground, taking all the donation on his way out.  Even the owner of the server can't stop that.  At some point in this forum I read Cookie said he didn't care about money, he said he has a job and all that ... but oh nevermind greedy is just human nature.

Have to admit that Cookie is a scam artist.  He is pretty good at gaining trust when he put his ability into it.  The server owner also lower his guard too soon. 

I will have to quote that reddit post for record and add yet another entry to the Cookie section of the Hall of Shame post.

Spoiler

QUOTE FROM /u/HotshotGG:

    Hey guys, I detached myself from the project and it's sad to see that this is happening. If I could turn back time I'd obviously never have worked with Cookie but unfortunately once I started it was a done deal.

    He had access to all of the credentials and complete control of the back end. I tried really hard to get everything running with the resources I had and even put my own money into it. (Never took anything out, only paid it to the staff)

    Unfortunately even after I left Cookie kept withdrawing huge amounts of cash till the server went dry.

    It's my fault that everything f*** up and I'm trying my best to find good people to take over the project.The only problem now is either Zinnia or Cookie is stopping us from backing up the server.

    Even in the end when there is almost nothing left, someone is trying to force it to burn to the ground. I wish I met some of the people like Sirius black (the creator of harmony) much sooner. Nobody qualified stepped up to help me start the server in the beginning which was the biggest problem. Almost every developer left had MAJOR issues.

    I'm too busy to revive the project, so my only recourse is to let it die or try to give it to someone that cares. I think the most important file is the people that donated. I want to try to reimburse people with credits if the server lives on or is remade.

    Sorry this happened guys, I've learned a lot from this experience.

    My ultimate wish was to work with some developers that already had their own servers up and running. Most of the server owners wanted financial and server control which made me extremely uneasy.

    There are so many things I would have done differently in the end. I should have delayed the project until a very talented and respected person came into the picture. Even to this day, I don't know any other than Sirius that I would have meshed with. He's really a stand up guy, and loved meeting him.

    Thanks for appreciating the experience for what it was.

    I want to start another server at some point in time, RO or not. The experience was a blast despite it's flaws, definitely going to try to work with an official licence next time. I hate hiding in the shadows because pservers are obviously a grey area.

    It'll be interesting how the MMO space evolves this year with a lot of great titles coming out.

    I am still interested in RO, but I have no time for it. I work 16 hours a day, 7 days a week.

    I've found out very recently that Zinnia wasn't apart of the terrible things that were going on. I got fed bad information. The population backing me doesn't mean anything if next day the server just goes down. (AKA like it just did now)

QUOTE FROM CREATENOTDISCOVER

    Sorry the server didn't survive everyone and that I bailed, though there was nothing I couldn't do. A lot of the staff didn't respect my opinion and when trying to influence change it would mostly get shut down. Staying on was fairly futile. The amount of times I was getting "reprimanded" for doing work outside of my "position" was a bit silly. Good luck with wherever you plan to play and hopefully you'll all enjoy yourself.

QUOTE FROM ZINNIA:

    Just to make sure everyone understands it. I NEVER owned any server / domain access to begin with. Otherwise I'd have been able to do the maintenances on ggRO. I still have some respect for everyone in this project, including Hotshot & Cookie, and I always were passionate about ggRO and made everything in my power to make this all work, until I get tired. In fact, Hotshot was the one refusing my application in December as CM / Project manager. If he didn't, I'd have been part of the project since Day 1.

http://i.imgur.com/ep5Lnqt.png

    I felt powerless most of the time. Not mentionning my work wasn't always valued. Concerning ggRO's failures, the overall idea of the project was flawed, or at least its application. You can't demand a development team to work on bug-fixing Hercules, develop instances that don't exist on Hercules, aswell as releasing new episodes regularly, if they are not given any incentives or the management doesn't work closely with them.

    Plus, the donation system itself was terrible. I like the idea of cosmetics only, but releasing 90% of the lower headgears of Ragnarok in 2 months of donation boxes is just another hint of the lack of knowledges about RO of the administration. Here's the link : https://docs.google.com/document/d/1aTqkNETKmn0Ds-K8qWHZyb9ZbhmxcjM_OwEwmQd-uBI/edit

    To conclude, I think you guys deserve to know nobody in the administration ever recognized their mistakes while the community was rioting. For them, the community was "the worst community ever saw in RO history", which is from my point of view just a bad workman blaming his tools. @alootid is the best example.

[close]

Lesson learnt:"I should have delayed the project until a very talented and respected person came into the picture."

The risk of hiring someone with a bad record could end up, as we can see, ruining the project altogether.  No excuse for this.  Everyone please think carefully before you decide to start a server.

[Grace Mirchea Luslec]

Hold on a second here.

Don't you think it's a little ridiculous to outright discount a server because one or two of the admin may have previously worked with the infamous Cookie? For all you know, they may have worked with and disagreed with said Cookie's actions while running the server. Judging the admin team simply based on who they have worked with (once) in the past is rather unfair.

I think it would be much more reasonable to avoid servers which GM team Cookie is currently part of. Employing Cookie indicates that to a certain extent, he will be part of the decision making process which determines the future of the server. And seeing that some of you find him utterly untrustworthy, avoiding such servers would be the logical thing to do.

In comparison, if a server actively refuses to be affiliated with Cookie, the fact that some of the admin team may have worked with Cookie in the past can most likely be disregarded.

After all, Cookie is not being employed by these servers, is he?

[Bue]

But it ended up Cookie gaining control of everything and then ran the server into the ground, taking all the donation on his way out.  At some point in this forum I read Cookie said he didn't care about money, he said he has a job and all that ... but oh nevermind greedy is just human nature.[/b]

Hotshot shouldn't have open a server to begin with.

I didn't think the server would last very long and the players that he would bring in would migrate to existing servers, therefore benefiting the scene when all said and done.

With Cawl consulting and developing for the server, I thought the server might stand a chance.

A year prior to GGRO and after DivinityRO, I heard Cawl got a job in real life and therefore attain some professional work experience.

So I vouch for him.

I want to know what he has to say about this, but I am as confuse and disappointed as you are.

[betwixtbetween]

So this pretty much what happened to the server

Hotshot feels like starting a RO server to relive his old nostalgia. Tries to find developers willing to take care of the server because he doesn't know how to do server-related things and development while he takes care of paying salaries and everything related to upkeep. The (literally) only person available is Cookie.

We tell him over and over again that Cookie's a f*** awful idea. Cookie manages to cuck him into believing he's changed and that nothing wrong will happen. Hotshot listens/trusts him instead of us, either because he really believes him or because there's absolutely no one else, he kinds of believes him and there are "measures" set in place to prevent/show corruption when it happens (the logs, which were kind of a joke by the way, considering Cookie had direct database access)

Server opens with Cookie at the helm of development related things and Hotshot being the "face" of the server and doing game design (which was also kind of an awful idea since Hotshot really didn't know enough about RO to be in that position)

Here is where it becomes grey. Some kind of altercation happens between Hotshot and Cookie. Hotshot realizes he can't do anything to stop Cookie anymore since Cookie has full owner access to the database, the server, the domain, etc. Hotshot bails. This is kept a secret from the playerbase for some unexplained reason (seriously, I would have left instantly). Server goes dark for a few weeks with nothing happening, people leaving due to lack of content and pre-trans patch with no content taking too long.

Zinnia gets hired to resolve these issues and to do the game design team and dev <=> player communication. He tries his best, things go kind of okay for a week or two.

From this point on, Cookie starts siphoning all the money being put in the server and does whatever he wants with it. All content patches stop, server goes to absolute s***

And then the money ran out and server got taken down.

-----------------------


addendum: the altercation happened after hotshot had his f*** woe guilds" breakdown, so this is most likely what it was about. whether hotshot kept sending money in after he bailed is also unknown at this time. if no money was being sent anymore, then it's possible that cookie's "siphoning" was just him getting his salary/salary for his developers from donations since hotshot wasn't paying anymore. hotshot could have possibly killed the server there by banning "toxic" (awful word) players, but it was his decision to make, not cookie's. cookie took over the server at this point.

also cookie taking a salary for the s*** his dev team was is a complete joke. nothing ever went right development wise on that server.