Does using RCX and Modified GRF ruin the game?

[exii]

uhh

which results in a scenario where you need to modify my server's database files to bypass it

if you're not aware, ragnarok's database allows full control of all skill cooldowns, cast times, walk delays, and skill delays and there is nothing you, the player, can do about it

basically every server you've ever seen never gave a f*** about your exploits to begin with


although at the same time i am aware of bragi hacks and other hacks of the sort, which makes me wonder how they are done


no grf is just 1 frame animations, you basically appear as always standing still

LOL
Why should I want to have access to your server if a lot of the named features working client sided? The only thing you effectively can block is freewalk and the range hack via hold.

And lol again!
1 frame animations arent working. The act files requires a few fixed sprites on every position. Else it would crash. Its not a simple mob sprite (ofc you could replace it with those but thats not that basic point). And this frame cutting process is named as nodelay and not nogrf. You dont even know the term of something you want to block. Well played.
And the way you want to block it shows me exactly that you dont have any clue what are talking about. Even with CRC checks you cant be invulnerable to bots and other things.
Even harmony has been bypassed again and the developer is on a completely different level as a worm like you.

Know your stuff and try harder then.

[Styx]

it's extremely easy to nullify the effects of nogrf server side, takes like 10 seconds

i'm surprised so many servers let it pass and complain about it at the same time

Hmm, well, what is exactly the word isn't that important, I see where you are coming from but I doubt that would work.
Let's pressume it is not even an issue because the server does want to provide gameplay as is possible, based on those 3thparty programs.
I guess most players don't know how to tweak their client as exii does and with no doubt you should be able to do it at the same level also.
For players as exii it will be the ultimate challenge, for others it could be more frustrating then pushing buttons.
If they bring it server-side it could attract more players.

[silent]

RCX doesn't ruin the game at all. It's incredibly useful and enables a lot of high tier play that we see on private servers - in particular in WoE.

Modified GRFs is clearly a subjective problem. If you're simply reducing your lag so you can play properly, then how can anyone says this "ruins the game"? If the state of the graphics are such that without grf mods you can't play, then it can only be improving the game for that player.

GRFs which allow one to target MvPs easier and things like this are a necessary thing these days too. Sure, it takes an element of learned skill (knowing how to target these mobs easily) out of the game, but arguably it also levels the playing field more between experienced players and less experienced players - can you really be that proud of yourself for winning an MvP just because you know where to click and someone else simply hasn't figured it out yet? That seems quite shallow.

So really, it depends what you mean by "ruins the game". Personally, I think anything short of modifying graphics in order to effect fundamental mechanics (such as nodelay*) probably has a net positive effect on RO on private servers. It should be embraced more than shunned, since otherwise people such as Exii and myself, and all of our peers, will simply have an edge over people who do not know how to modify these things themselves.

*I have never heard this "nogrf" nonsense Blinzer is talking about - what he describes is "nodelay". I've done my fair share of grf modding and know a bit about rA functionality, and I'm with Exii that this guy doesn't really know what he's talking about. Sry bro.

[Blinzer]

LOL
Why should I want to have access to your server if a lot of the named features working client sided? The only thing you effectively can block is freewalk and the range hack via hold.

And lol again!
1 frame animations arent working. The act files requires a few fixed sprites on every position. Else it would crash. Its not a simple mob sprite (ofc you could replace it with those but thats not that basic point). And this frame cutting process is named as nodelay and not nogrf. You dont even know the term of something you want to block. Well played.
And the way you want to block it shows me exactly that you dont have any clue what are talking about. Even with CRC checks you cant be invulnerable to bots and other things.
Even harmony has been bypassed again and the developer is on a completely different level as a worm like you.

Know your stuff and try harder then.

ROFL


like i give a f*** what it's called dude

i just give a f*** about making a good game and making faggots understand that cheats and hacks are worthless within it



i have a better idea

instead of being a moron and arguing that you're a piece of s***, how about you help me make a good game by putting your knowledge of clients to good use

Hmm, well, what is exactly the word isn't that important, I see where you are coming from but I doubt that would work.
Let's pressume it is not even an issue because the server does want to provide gameplay as is possible, based on those 3thparty programs.
I guess most players don't know how to tweak their client as exii does and with no doubt you should be able to do it at the same level also.
For players as exii it will be the ultimate challenge, for others it could be more frustrating then pushing buttons.
If they bring it server-side it could attract more players.

wel you can include them in your server automatically, that isn't an issue


and no

and i can certainly not hack clients like that kid can nor do i need to

[exii]

i have a better idea

instead of being a moron and arguing that you're a piece of s***, how about you help me make a good game by putting your knowledge of clients to good use

How about .. no?
The more you invest time in this topic the more you will realize how complicated a good protection is to develop regarding all possible aspects for a bypass.
Also why should I give a single f*** about to block things which Im partly using? Nodelay isnt a big deal which I need at the end of 2014 but nodelay is just the start and at the same time the end of a list for hacks which I personally would agree to block.
But you just would try to block everything if you somebody would give you the possibility and this is biting with professional gameplay. Blocking PotNDs /effect feature would be the most stupid idea ever; fe.
Thats exactly why trash pinoy admins try to block a lot of feaures because they dont know a s*** about what theyre doing. Doesnt matter if its a useful feature the client imedietly officially needed or just a hack to achiev some unfair benefit. Just block, block, block, block like a brainless zombie. And thats one of a couple of things why Im extreme racist against the average pinoy.

I have a better idea for you:

Instead of yelling out that you can block nodelay in 10mins without any background knowledge and get slaped from all sides for this you spend some time with this whole topic and face why harmony took years for it.
How about that?

[Styx]

This all leads away from the subject. Playing with or without these futures is just a choice.
To my opinion it does ruin the game if it is based client-side and not server-side.
Though I can imagine, players like to keep it client-side only to gain as much advantage as possible.

[exii]

Making rcx clientside would mean to make it worthless except you still would have all setup options.
Do I want to see BB lines? no
Do I want to see 10000 pve informations? no
Do I want to change my color setting because Im using the same over years because other colors for same skill would confuse me? f*** yes

Most other things like @hold do already exist as a server sided command feature.

[Blinzer]

How about .. no?
The more you invest time in this topic the more you will realize how complicated a good protection is to develop regarding all possible aspects for a bypass.
Also why should I give a single f*** about to block things which Im partly using? Nodelay isnt a big deal which I need at the end of 2014 but nodelay is just the start and at the same time the end of a list for hacks which I personally would agree to block.
But you just would try to block everything if you somebody would give you the possibility and this is biting with professional gameplay. Blocking PotNDs /effect feature would be the most stupid idea ever; fe.
Thats exactly why trash pinoy admins try to block a lot of feaures because they dont know a s*** about what theyre doing. Doesnt matter if its a useful feature the client imedietly officially needed or just a hack to achiev some unfair benefit. Just block, block, block, block like a brainless zombie. And thats one of a couple of things why Im extreme racist against the average pinoy.

I have a better idea for you:

Instead of yelling out that you can block nodelay in 10mins without any background knowledge and get slaped from all sides for this you spend some time with this whole topic and face why harmony took years for it.
How about that?

uhhh

you have no clue who you are talking to, but i can tell you this


going against me is the same as going against yourself

[teowenjun]

Hi, pardon my ignorance, ive tried searching for the hold feature you mentioned. I was wondering if you could enlighten me if its a feature in a server or if it is a program that needs to be downloaded. You also mentioned that it could be blocked on a server, i suspect a player in the server im playing is using it so im interested to find out how it can be done.

[exii]

Both things are possible. Woonro has this feature if I remember right.
On client side its working just by executing @hold in the chat or alt shortcuts.
The character stucks and isnt able to move anymore. you have to use @hold again.
This method isnt working as the usal hold feature but its a fair deal.

The basic method is possible with through 2 programs/files. You can move freely but when you cast a spell out of your range you dont run until you are able to perform. The char is just rooted.
This prevents tons of click bugs. If you play frontline and perform a something on the 1st line of the enemy guild you may experience that your char wants to run to its target.
The reason is the massive clickspam of your mouse which sometimes miss to use a skill and just click on the map which means you to this point and the target sometimes trying to avoid by retreat 1-2 cells back which means your char will move 1-2 cells forward.

[snowblind]

But for some reason the hold feature had the insane benefit that you were able to cast your skills from 10 cells instead of 9. The reason is that the server thinks you have been moved to this cell and unlock it. There is a fixing for it btw.

I have never seen this or heard about this. My range is always 10 cells, with and without PotND. Was it a bug with past emulators or something?

[firefox509]

I have never seen this or heard about this. My range is always 10 cells, with and without PotND. Was it a bug with past emulators or something?

Cast range isn't a perfect 9 cell square as you should know, if you're running RCX lets say you see the line marked as Xs

OXO
OXO
OXO
OXO
OXO

with the middle line being the line you are standing at (not on grid), while your actual maximum cast range is (marked by Xs again)

OXO
OOX
OOX
OOX
OXO

Your cast range is more along the lines of a rather squared circle, for the most part other than the 3 cells around your center location and the corners your cast range actually lines up with RCX's cast square

The reason we say cast range is 9 is because say you're 11 (or more) cells away from your target / cast location, you will move 2 (or more) cells up to be within 9 spaces. However if you are exactly 10 spaces away you will remain in place and cast at 10 away instead of moving up 1 cell. Essentially true cast range appears to be 10, but if you're further than that it'll move you into definite cast range of 9... if that helps make any sense

To make an example: cast somewhere out of your cast range. Keep track of that cell. once you stop moving and cast on that cell (should be on your RCX green line now) try casting another spell 1 more cell outside where you just casted. You should cast the spell with that additional 1 range, outside your RCX square. Assuming you're casting straightly up/down/left/right of the cell you're standing

[snowblind]

I know that, but what does it have to do with hold.

[exii]

I know that, but what does it have to do with hold.

Nothing. The 1 cell add is caused by the movement skip. The char wants to run 1 cell further and @hold stops it. But the system still thinks you have been moved 1 cell and give you access to perform your skill. The bug is stil present but there is a fixing around which the good woe server already installed. 6-cell-asura was a freaking nightmare.

[snowblind]

Sounds like a messed up server feature when you say @hold. If it happens with potND too then I guess I haven't played enough servers xd

I was mainly asking because I thought about hosting a server before, although I don't think it's worth the trouble with this community. But since it's related to the topic, if I ever did make a server I would not try to block anything, except titan grf if possible. Instead, I would just aim to make client hacks less relevant. For nodelay, just implement a hard skill delay which can be canceled by movement, flinch animation or true sight, etc., @hold only for single target skills, freewalk enabled by default, etc.. During woe, there should be no effects except Dispel and maybe Tarot, so people can just play normally with /effects on. And ofcourse for maya p hack, the answer seems to be not to send any information about hidden players to other clients.

I haven't really looked into it myself, but I don't understand why some server owners shy away from a little source editing.