Deliverance online

[NoS]

Im sure people who have played deli within the beginning of lastyear to this year remember an incident in Deliverance RO called the "Malstrom" Now for those who dont know about it. It went somthing like this. Unknown guild with group of people pops out of nowhere with a ton of bls which alot of the server people labeled as "noobs". So around two months time after this guild became known and people became suspicious of so many of their members having bls. The GM found out and got rid of these so called "noobs" and so the server was saved from yet another crisis with people putting on their quotes " All hail Crono" the only bad thing that happened was Crono claimed that the backups before he was aware of the duping were "corrupted" so he had to roll the server far back. But never the less the server had been saved all is well right?

Some things about this have been bothering me about this situation. And lets say for the sake of discussion Crono had hired a group of people to stir up trouble on purpose and those items were given to them instead of them taking advantage of a bug. I know some people are probably going  " wtf" but hear me out Why do I think somthing smells funny about that situation? Here are my reasons.

1. How come it was only that guild that was aware of the duping bug? I would figure if they could do it. Alot of ppl would have been doing it too.

2. Why did it take so long for the gm to find out and take action? By the time he took action the situation was pretty bad.

3. Not to sound elitist or anything. but these guys were not very bright at covering up their tracks or that they duped items usually anyone who would do this would try and make it as unnoticeable as possible.

4. Data corruption can happen. This one im not so sure of but I didnt believe it actually happened. Id really like someone to discuss this one.


Anyway discuss. I want to know others thoughts on that incident and also if the situation was like this. Ill also remind that this is just a theory. I want to see how other people thought of the situation.
Btw if your going to flame. Please do not bother posting.

[Remus Senior]

I belonged to the server during this incident. Was as you described, quite honestly lost alot of good equips because of the roll back, and yes did hear of the group that was accused of doing the mischief. Could it be a setup, that is feasible, I 'd hate to think that is what happened, as for corrupted backup's (well I have been in the computer business for 29 years, and backups are key to computer sanity, however I have never seen a corrupted backup unless done by a unknowledgable person) the old saying is "poop happens" but I am dubious of this. I would hope that this was not a perpetrated scam on the community by ?, because that if proven true, would be the death of Deli!

Remus   (senior)

[Leeland Jake]

To my knowledge, a lot of people in Izlude suspected something. Mostly because Maelstrom would waste ygg berries and use edp every chance they got, but I don't think anyone said anything for a long time.

I do not believe Crono would do this to his server. I don't think it was an inside job. I think it was just a bunch of jerk people who found a server they could do this kind of crap in.

I think we are all aware of the stress Crono was under so I don't think he would have done this to himself.

[NoS]

Welll usually watching the community for awhile with other incidents and seeing that the guild CH did have like 3-4 sub gms in it which hung around izlude most of the time. I find it hard to believe not one would have reported this to him right away seeing as how it seemed like that guild had infinite yggs/edps. The thing that lead me to believe this and think about my suspicions from back then was delis current state. Crono trying to hide things from the public. No updates. and how he answers questions to certain things with an agressive/cocky attitude. Also the mass ammount of money he must get from donations.

[Kurama]

Wait... About Drivenbyhate's post... so technically we could get banned for talking here.  Maybe deli is a little bit like ccp.  I mean if I am canadian, I don't get jailed for saying "CANADA SUX" in USA do I? -__-

Hell, I don't even get jailed for saying "Bush is a dumbass."

anyway on topic,

if the maelstorm thing was that big like you said, then I do -not- believe GMs would go to such an extend to create that much drama.  Believe it or not, setting up something like that is actually extremely difficult, and what is the purpose they are trying to achieve if it was indeed set up?  As for the corrupted back up, I may have a little doubt in that...

What I think is definitely wrong is posting ppl's IP and email adress, I am pretty sure he can get sued for such things.

I don't know, I think for a server, the attitude is number 1.  I went to izzy, they are all CHs lol just like you ppl said, CH and their allies.

[NoS]

Setting somthing like this up is not really that difficult really. It could have gone somthing like this. 1. GM asks friends to stir up some trouble also gives the leaders of the guild bls and stuff and tells them to act like theres a duping thing going on > Few months later its found>GM rants on how much he hates this kind of crap and says he will bann them>Attracts attention from public and praises GM as a hero. Thinking back still it may not have been quite like this but some things just dont match up. Like I said above. Subbies are in the guild thats usually in izzy unknown ppl all of a sudden popping up with an endless supply of edp and berries and bls show up. Well maybe they could have been duping. Maybe, but what really puzzles me is also what I said before. How come no one else outside the guild knew/reported it/did it too?

Anyway I leave those questions up for constructive discussion.

Was thinkin and thought past is the past and this isnt really an important issue anymore anyways. But thanks for the people who gave their comments about it. 

[Darek Khort]

To topic-starter: I was on Deli for a while; perhaps 2 years. Maybe more. Left for a bit due to schoolwork, and then left for a bit only to come back yesterday due to Uni work.
My time on Deli has been amazing, from the first guild I joined "Little Busters" all the way to this present day.
Loved all the amazing events, and user-run events; the community/etc.
Crono and all the Sub-GMs were awesome people.

In terms of the Elitist argument, I had once accused Izlude of that. Mainly because I was a low-level wizard back then and was killed as soon as I got to Izlude. That is...well...natural for a FFA PvP area.
It wasn't long before that idea of them dropped.

What I find with the guilds is not elitism as much as strong bonds. Big and small guilds in Deli create very close and strong bonds between their guild members. Thus if you badmouth a guild member, other members will fight back to protect them.
Sort of like what you see in the real world. If someone says something bad about your mom, you don't just smile and let it off (usually).

In terms of corruption; I have never seen, or heard till this day.
And hey, things happen. Bad things do happen on servers. Ragnarok Servers are no different from real life; they aren't utopias.

About Maelstrom. Seriously. Yes, they were using lots and lots of EDPs and Ygg Berries at Izlude.
But think about it. Didn't Pandemonium? How did they do it? They collected their EDPs and Ygg Berries. Not everybody conserves everything they get for WoE; other people use it for PvP.
I used to have around 1.2k EDP bottles that I collected and bought off others; as well as plenty of Ygg Berries. If I were to head for Izlude, would they accuse me of cheating the system? Nah. And that's probably why nobody reported for a good while. There were only suspicions, but not enough proof.

And about CH. Yes, a lot of sub GMs are in CH. Yes, a lot of 140s are from CH. So what? Though I've never been in the guild, I know their members are quite dedicated and help each other out a lot. In fact, I know when Tomf started CH; around the time he won a user-run event I held way back.
Where were the sub GMs before CH?
People seem to confuse skill, dedication and affection for conspiracy, wrongdoings and total corruption within CH.

------

Overall, not sure about the situation right now, but Deli as I know it was and probably still is an awesome place to be with the most friendly community I've come across yet. Just don't expect a utopia.

[AzuleGod]

I have been playing this server since September '06.

Now, let's begin addressing the subjects brought up here.

Wait... About Drivenbyhate's post... so technically we could get banned for talking here.  Maybe deli is a little bit like ccp.  I mean if I am canadian, I don't get jailed for saying "CANADA SUX" in USA do I? -__-

Hell, I don't even get jailed for saying "Bush is a dumbass."

Please, you're getting half the story.
That particular suggestion was shot down almost immediately, because it would be like the CCP.

WOE, well that's a different subject all together, I personally don't get worked up about dieing during WOE, like some of the elite and the "children" do, because this is just a game, and I've got to admit I have plenty of "kills" with the "flyspeck" Wizzard I play with, so I'm pleased.

I'm sorry, but you're playing Ragnarok Online, an MMORPG.
It's an online game.
If you don't want people to get worked up, start playing Tetris.
I mean no offense, but my point is that the people who play these games are, in many cases, immature, silly, and sometimes stupid.
However, in my humble opinion, Deliverance has more of the intelligent, mature, and capable members than any other server.

Yes I believe that the donation system on this server will be the eventual downfall of the server, the Lites are fine, Premium membership is a must (because of the added options available to a Prem member) but the Blacklists are a disgrace, some items should only be available through quests (ie. megs, mejol, sleips) the others are drops from MPV's and in my opinion should only come from them.

I will admit, the blacklist system is half arsed.
However, the new MvP cards are not obtainable via blacklisting, and neither are the new god items.
On top of that, it is possible to obtain MvP cards without paying real money (keep in mind the drop rates are x 30), and the god quests mean that a determined individual can compete with those who only have real money.
I have beaten level 140s who were loaded with blacklists as a level 99 without any.
It is entirely possible to compete with them, it just takes skill and knowledge.

As stated in previous posts, a deep walleted individual will do quite well, it's just a shame that these individuals are probably the most elitest on this server and are ruining it for the average player.

Oh please, now you're just complaining for the sake of complaining.
Izlude is a free for all arena.
Killing people does not make you elitist, hoarding it over other people does.
However, you can report them for that, if you really feel it's necessary.

Gameplay wise, deli is quite troubled, even though this is being overlooked by the the troubles in the second catergory. In short the economy is horrendous, blacklists are necessiated, the customs are terrible, and there are no events.

The economy is horrendous, I will agree with you on that point.
You do not need blacklists, they are not required to have fun or to make a difference in WoE.
DD is awesome, as are the Berzebub and Skoll quests.
I'll admit that some of the customs are imbalanced, but, thanks to the efforts of players like me in the suggestions forum, those will be changed.
Events... On one hand, there aren't enough GM run events, on the other, with the broadcast NPC, can run your own events, instead of just complaining about the lack thereof.

The deliverance economy is in shambles, and prices have been increasing at an alarming rate. Most of this is arisen due to the ties of zeny to the donation system.

Yeah, srsly.
People being able to buy awesome things with zeny is like, screwed up, right?

Every, pre rachel mini boss card and many powerful headgear (such as alice doll) are available for a 12 dollar canadian donation and wings which give 10 def and all stats+1 are available for 22 CAD.

Yeah, but the rates are also x 30.
With the time it takes to type out a complaint like this, you could already have hunted one mini-boss card.

On top of this EVERY pre-rachel mvp card AND god items AND berzebub cards are available for 100 CAD.

Yeah, that is imbalanced.
No more MvP cards or god items are being added to that list, and with the reasonable rates, along with the upcoming god item quests, blacklist level items will not be limited to the rich-in-real-life.

A bunch of people donate, and due the accumulated donations, with out megs at the least, one cannot do anything notable in WoE.

Without any blacklist level items, my level 99 Stalker stopped an entire CH raiding party composed of 6 level 100+ players.

A very good example of CH and this elitist attitude is during a gvg event where the lvl cap was set to lvl 90 and non-trans, CH lost to a small guild which was essentially non-heard off.  Later on, after the event is over, the CH ppl went on their 140 characters and pked some number of lvl 90 non-trans characters over and over claiming "there is no clear rules on PK in GVG, so this is not against the rules."

Yeah, there are some real **** in Deliverance, I won't lie.
I could name a few, but I don't honestly care to.
These people are, quite honestly, retarded.

Most of them, however, have absolutely no idea how to play the game.
It's not too hard to kill any one of them. =\
If they try to PK you, PK them back.

Fourthly, the lvl cap 140 on this server is absolutely crap. This creates mini-gods on the server who can essentially solo castles, and display their elitist attitude to the rest of the Deli population. Being 140 loaded with BLs they can have 3 stats maxed and a 4th one up to 90.

Dude, have you ever seen a PvP between two level 140s?
It's freakin' epic.

Anyway, I've already made it clear that 140s can be taken down with very little equipment.
However, if you didn't read that part, I'll make a list of the multiple times I've taken 140s down:
- Level 99 Stalker has left level 140 Assassin Crosses stripped and Frozen in a castle.
- Level 103 Whitesmith with a Tomahawk has stalled two 140 SinXs, one 140 WS, a 140 Super Novice, a 140 Lord Knight, and one 140 High Wizard in one WoE.
- My level 78 Champion has successfully stopped a level 140 SinX from taking our Emperium via a Freezing Mace, Decrease Agility, and some quick Snaps.
- My level 99 Sniper has stopped a level 140 Lord Knight from taking my castle with Sandman traps.
The list goes on.

Six, the subGMs of Deliverance are incapable. I have not seen a SubGM help desk for almost half a year. I don't know what the GMs are doing or why they are GMs at all.

Hahahahaha, that's a joke, right?
Henhouse is a subGM because he helps people out, because he coded the Berzebub and Skoll quests, and because he takes care of rule offenders.
Sting (Andoresu) is a subGM because he effectively translates for the entire Spanish community, along with helping out players who need it.
PaDo was a subGM because he helped code the server, as well as helped deal with rule breakers.
Etcetera.

SubGMs are real players with added responsibilities.

SubGMs can not @item, they can not @kill, and they can not summon monsters, items, or anything else into the game.

Henhouse did use @warp to get to Ice Dungeon, and was promptly banned for a week.
Karma~Sutra was banned for over a month for her dual-clienting fiasco, which, considering she didn't do anything she wouldn't have done otherwise, is quite a harsh punishment.
Jake was corrupt, and recently had his GM status removed, along with his account.

Bottom line, the deli subbies in my eyes are all bunch of immature babies abusing their powers, and destroying the deli population rther than helping them.  Although Crono said he will fire all the subbies, but so far, i have seen no action of such.  They are still subGMs and not toning down their attitude ONE BIT.  It seems the firing Subbies thing is just a joke to temporarily appease the public.

You know, I could say the same of you.
You, in my eyes, are an immature baby abusing your knowledge (barely) of the English language, and destroying Deli's reputation rather than giving the full story.
However, I am not here to flame, I am here to argue with you logically. Removed, because I want to keep this logical.

The SubGMs are still GM:2s, which means they are still "fired".

If you have no money to donate the experience is really going to suck for you. If you do donate aton like I did and lvl over 120 you get caught up in all this senseless drama.

You don't have to get caught up in drama, that's a human choice, and the only thing Crono can do about that is to remove public chat.

And last, gotta love how he removes topics from the forums that makes him lose face Grin.

He removes the posts because nobody has anything intelligent to add.
Because most of the people who make those topics are either banned, agitators, or people who actively wish harm upon the server or its inhabitants.

As to my review.
This is, in my opinion, an amazing server.
The community is amazing, the customs are fun, and it's well run.

I would indeed recommend this server to others, however, in its current un-updated state, you may feel your time is wasted.
I would recommend waiting a month or so. (The time in which the next SVN will occur)

Please, if you feel the need to comment on my comments, do so with a logical argument, address my individual points, and try to convince me as to why I am in the wrong.

Logically,
Blue.

[NoS]

Only one thing came to mind when I read this..... too much emotion. Said corruption has already been proven in many ways on that server already.

* DrivenByTheHate beat me to posting the link*

In short. Crono loves people who kiss his donkey and loves to make smart donkey remarks. He also loves people who donate a ton of money to fill his pocket.

* edit*
Refer to link on below posters post for all your answers.

[DrivenByTheHate]

For those that are just joining in, please see the last deliverance topic, which had quite a few good points until, Ana/Antipathy, Kikad, and some others decided to be **** and harass those with actual evidence.

http://www.ratemyserver.net/forum/sorting-needed/deliverance-online-corruption/0/

Now to address your points.

Lets start out with your last point. Its pretty ignorant to say that Marc simply removes topics that have flames. What happened to the topic where a player brought up the accusation that GM items were given to regular players? I remember there being no flames in that topic, yet it was moved/deleted. Why? Because Marc did not want himself and the team looking bad. I believe either himself or someone else in the team had stated that they may and will remove or delete topics that threaten the credibility of deliverance online. Does that sound like someone that's simply trying to stop flames? I don't think so.

Next, as for my own point about there being a suggestion to ban people that posts "bad" things about deliverance, a certain group, *cough CH cough* did in fact support the suggestion. And considering they are notably strong force when needed t be on suggestions with every member posting in a synchronized manner, the opposition in no way outweighed the support. This is one case where Marc did not support CH, simply choosing to not be made out to be the equivalent of a repressive totalitarian leader.

When I played, I had beaten my share of 140's players too on a character without any blacklists and one that was hardly close to 140. Does that mean anything? No. The point, the majority of time, skill, such as changing armors, using resists, using statuses, does not matter when there is the brute power emanating from the abundance of God items. I know. Ive trying various strategies, but honestly, when you combine such items with a level 140 character (a level which allows enough stat points to mask several of the key weaknesses to many classes) its simply impractical.

As for me being able to hunt a mini boss card in the time it takes me to write this reply, it takes me a couple of minute to write this. However, I must kill a mini boss or mvp an average of 300ish times to get ONE card. Considering MVP's and mini bosses are found every 30 mins - 2 hours, that claim is simply ludicrous. Items such as maya purple, maximum pharaoh (a more amped up version of the Pharaoh Card), Maximum KoW card should not be had at least 1 per player. The rarity of such valuable yet abundant card is often underrated. Its little things such as that, when combined with the ability to get MVP cards and God items that create an imbalance.

I do admit DD can be fun. However, many of the customs as I had described, do, AT BEST, add at a very hefty cost. By customs I mean, the pest card, ability to get MVP cards, god items, custom dex items and the ability to get redux set easily with cash...... etc..

As for the SubGM's prowess, I consider Sting/Andoresu to be a perfect example. Sure he has helped since he speaks Spanish, but how many others would have volunteered? Many. So why would he be chosen over someone with experience coding and has given some of his work for the betterment of deliverance? Could it be due to the fact that this character is friends with the other SubGM's, in the same guild with them, and is in a "relationship" with another SubGM Sharu? Perhaps. And, there is plenty of evidence for Sharu's corruption and abuse of powers in the past when nothing was done about it. But ill leave that for another time.

[Leeland Jake]

I have been playing this server since September '06.

Now, let's begin addressing the subjects brought up here.

Wait... About Drivenbyhate's post... so technically we could get banned for talking here.  Maybe deli is a little bit like ccp.  I mean if I am canadian, I don't get jailed for saying "CANADA SUX" in USA do I? -__-

Hell, I don't even get jailed for saying "Bush is a dumbass."

Please, you're getting half the story.
That particular suggestion was shot down almost immediately, because it would be like the CCP.
You forgot the part where the main Admin "semi-supported" it while the rest of the community, aside from the one who suggested it in the first place, didn't support it at all.

WOE, well that's a different subject all together, I personally don't get worked up about dieing during WOE, like some of the elite and the "children" do, because this is just a game, and I've got to admit I have plenty of "kills" with the "flyspeck" Wizzard I play with, so I'm pleased.

I'm sorry, but you're playing Ragnarok Online, an MMORPG.
It's an online game.
If you don't want people to get worked up, start playing Tetris.
I mean no offense, but my point is that the people who play these games are, in many cases, immature, silly, and sometimes stupid.
However, in my humble opinion, Deliverance has more of the intelligent, mature, and capable members than any other server.

Yes I believe that the donation system on this server will be the eventual downfall of the server, the Lites are fine, Premium membership is a must (because of the added options available to a Prem member) but the Blacklists are a disgrace, some items should only be available through quests (ie. megs, mejol, sleips) the others are drops from MPV's and in my opinion should only come from them.

I will admit, the blacklist system is half arsed.
However, the new MvP cards are not obtainable via blacklisting, and neither are the new god items.
On top of that, it is possible to obtain MvP cards without paying real money (keep in mind the drop rates are x 30), and the god quests mean that a determined individual can compete with those who only have real money.
I have beaten level 140s who were loaded with blacklists as a level 99 without any.
It is entirely possible to compete with them, it just takes skill and knowledge.
If they aren't going to add anymore mvp cards and items to the bl list, maybe they should just remove all mvp cards and god items. Seems like you wouldn't need them with the incoming God item quest. And if it balances the server, why not? You hear people complaining about gtb...take if off the bl list!

As stated in previous posts, a deep walleted individual will do quite well, it's just a shame that these individuals are probably the most elitest on this server and are ruining it for the average player.

Oh please, now you're just complaining for the sake of complaining.
Izlude is a free for all arena.
Killing people does not make you elitist, hoarding it over other people does.
However, you can report them for that, if you really feel it's necessary.

Gameplay wise, deli is quite troubled, even though this is being overlooked by the the troubles in the second catergory. In short the economy is horrendous, blacklists are necessiated, the customs are terrible, and there are no events.

The economy is horrendous, I will agree with you on that point.
You do not need blacklists, they are not required to have fun or to make a difference in WoE.
DD is awesome, as are the Berzebub and Skoll quests.
I'll admit that some of the customs are imbalanced, but, thanks to the efforts of players like me in the suggestions forum, those will be changed.
Events... On one hand, there aren't enough GM run events, on the other, with the broadcast NPC, can run your own events, instead of just complaining about the lack thereof.
There was a person specifically chosen for these events. If a person doesn't do there job, they are fired. I see this as being the same thing.

The deliverance economy is in shambles, and prices have been increasing at an alarming rate. Most of this is arisen due to the ties of zeny to the donation system.

Yeah, srsly.
People being able to buy awesome things with zeny is like, screwed up, right?
Zeny was worthless while I was there and you couldn't buy anything "awesome" for it. I'm going to guess nothing has since changed.

Every, pre rachel mini boss card and many powerful headgear (such as alice doll) are available for a 12 dollar canadian donation and wings which give 10 def and all stats+1 are available for 22 CAD.

Yeah, but the rates are also x 30.
With the time it takes to type out a complaint like this, you could already have hunted one mini-boss card.

On top of this EVERY pre-rachel mvp card AND god items AND berzebub cards are available for 100 CAD.

Yeah, that is imbalanced.
No more MvP cards or god items are being added to that list, and with the reasonable rates, along with the upcoming god item quests, blacklist level items will not be limited to the rich-in-real-life.
Then just drop the entire bl list?

A bunch of people donate, and due the accumulated donations, with out megs at the least, one cannot do anything notable in WoE.

Without any blacklist level items, my level 99 Stalker stopped an entire CH raiding party composed of 6 level 100+ players.

A very good example of CH and this elitist attitude is during a gvg event where the lvl cap was set to lvl 90 and non-trans, CH lost to a small guild which was essentially non-heard off.  Later on, after the event is over, the CH ppl went on their 140 characters and pked some number of lvl 90 non-trans characters over and over claiming "there is no clear rules on PK in GVG, so this is not against the rules."

Yeah, there are some real **** in Deliverance, I won't lie.
I could name a few, but I don't honestly care to.
These people are, quite honestly, retarded.

Most of them, however, have absolutely no idea how to play the game.
It's not too hard to kill any one of them. =\
If they try to PK you, PK them back.
It's these people that ruin the game =( Sadly, it's not just the game. They are on forums too. Maybe they should like...oh I don't know...go die in a fire or something :p JK. Wishing death upon anyone over a video game is quite honestly the most retarded thing I have ever witnessed in my life. People are pretty immature and should grow up or go outside. Live a little...

Fourthly, the lvl cap 140 on this server is absolutely crap. This creates mini-gods on the server who can essentially solo castles, and display their elitist attitude to the rest of the Deli population. Being 140 loaded with BLs they can have 3 stats maxed and a 4th one up to 90.

Dude, have you ever seen a PvP between two level 140s?
It's freakin' epic.

Anyway, I've already made it clear that 140s can be taken down with very little equipment.
However, if you didn't read that part, I'll make a list of the multiple times I've taken 140s down:
- Level 99 Stalker has left level 140 Assassin Crosses stripped and Frozen in a castle.
- Level 103 Whitesmith with a Tomahawk has stalled two 140 SinXs, one 140 WS, a 140 Super Novice, a 140 Lord Knight, and one 140 High Wizard in one WoE.
- My level 78 Champion has successfully stopped a level 140 SinX from taking our Emperium via a Freezing Mace, Decrease Agility, and some quick Snaps.
- My level 99 Sniper has stopped a level 140 Lord Knight from taking my castle with Sandman traps.
The list goes on.

Six, the subGMs of Deliverance are incapable. I have not seen a SubGM help desk for almost half a year. I don't know what the GMs are doing or why they are GMs at all.

Hahahahaha, that's a joke, right?
Henhouse is a subGM because he helps people out, because he coded the Berzebub and Skoll quests, and because he takes care of rule offenders.
Sting (Andoresu) is a subGM because he effectively translates for the entire Spanish community, along with helping out players who need it.So I speak Spanish. Promotion please.
PaDo was a subGM because he helped code the server, as well as helped deal with rule breakers.
Etcetera. Yeah he doesn't even play anymore....so leave him out?

SubGMs are real players with added responsibilities.

SubGMs can not @item, they can not @kill, and they can not summon monsters, items, or anything else into the game.
They can abuse @follow to warp to a dun to level or pk as in the case with PaDo in GGD. Also when Sharu was a main GM with those commands she abused her powers. But oh hey, let's just bump her down to a sub and still give her some powers. Where is the logic in that?

Henhouse did use @warp to get to Ice Dungeon, and was promptly banned for a week.
Karma~Sutra was banned for over a month for her dual-clienting fiasco, which, considering she didn't do anything she wouldn't have done otherwise, is quite a harsh punishment.There was nothing prompt about Henhouse's banning. He freakin leveled to 140 before he got banned! And no one knew about him being banned until after he was banned and back in the game. Drama was happening and a few people brought up on forums Hen cheating to get to 140(because they were outraged) and that is when the community was told Hen was banned for a week. Seems like a more appropriate punishment would have been no powers. Abusing your powers makes people not trust you. Sometimes ever again.
Jake was corrupt, and recently had his GM status removed, along with his account.

Bottom line, the deli subbies in my eyes are all bunch of immature babies abusing their powers, and destroying the deli population rther than helping them.  Although Crono said he will fire all the subbies, but so far, i have seen no action of such.  They are still subGMs and not toning down their attitude ONE BIT.  It seems the firing Subbies thing is just a joke to temporarily appease the public.

You know, I could say the same of you.
You, in my eyes, are an immature baby abusing your knowledge (barely) of the English language, and destroying Deli's reputation rather than giving the full story.
However, I am not here to flame, I am here to argue with you logically. Removed, because I want to keep this logical.
Uh dude, just because you used the strikethrough does not make it "removed". C'mon now. Take your own advice.
The SubGMs are still GM:2s, which means they are still "fired".
Last I heard, they had all their powers back. And no, they are not fired. They never were going to be fired. The removal of powers was never going to be a permanent thing. Crono wouldn't allow that, even if it should be a permanent thing

If you have no money to donate the experience is really going to suck for you. If you do donate aton like I did and lvl over 120 you get caught up in all this senseless drama.

You don't have to get caught up in drama, that's a human choice, and the only thing Crono can do about that is to remove public chat.

And last, gotta love how he removes topics from the forums that makes him lose face Grin.

He removes the posts because nobody has anything intelligent to add.
Because most of the people who make those topics are either banned, agitators, or people who actively wish harm upon the server or its inhabitants.There are several topics/reports that are legit. My friends and I have gotten into the habit of screen shotting these topics lol. I know there are a lot of legit ones.

As to my review.
This is, in my opinion, an amazing server.
The community is amazing, the customs are fun, and it's well run.

I would indeed recommend this server to others, however, in its current un-updated state, you may feel your time is wasted.
I would recommend waiting a month or so. (The time in which the next SVN will occur)

Please, if you feel the need to comment on my comments, do so with a logical argument, address my individual points, and try to convince me as to why I am in the wrong.

Logically,
Blue.

[Kurama]

I may not be an expert on deli, but I am pretty good with identifying logics. There are some issues I have since I've played deli for 1 month now? I am not very active, but is enough for me to witness things... being a player with no lites and no BLs.

Dude, have you ever seen a PvP between two level 140s?

I've played many servers, and I have to say, how is a PvP between 99 and a 99 not epic? I think sticktuna's point was that the lvl cap is an upset to the server, as in the whole population.  I will give you an example, that's what I am good at. If we follow your flow of argument, then if deli is capped at 9999 it won't really be a problem, because...a pvp between 9999s are awesome.

Events... On one hand, there aren't enough GM run events, on the other, with the broadcast NPC, can run your own events, instead of just complaining about the lack thereof.

As for events, almost all the events I've seen on deli are pretty much player held anyway... I think the original point was GM should live up to their responsibility and start hosting events.  I don't know how busy they are, but I know being a person who jumps servers, this server definitely have very minimal GM involvement (events) except the forum communication system.

I think in both cases you had a misconception from the original poster. 

Here is some personal opinion,

I don't know how deli removes topics, but I do feel some of the topic that are closed (esp in suggestion thread) are unreasonable.  Somehow, I don't think Crono did that, probably subbies or something bleh.

WoE is not fun in this server lol.  My small guild has been beaten down by 3 ppl or less if they are 120 or above or something like that.  Or some sinx breaks emp in like 5 seconds before you can even kill him.

So with that, I decided to join CH and try out izzy.  Is nice because in CH I can actually sit in izzy for a while before some other guild seeing I am nub comes and picks on me.  Generally, if a nub-looking char steps in izzy and is not in a well-known guild (such as me in several cases) get brutally murdered.  So that wasn't fun either.

One thing I really detested in this server is someone in CH had an alt in the guild I was in (which is a small guild).  This person was literally bragging and trying to feel like a god in a nub guild. Everything this person did testifies that point, bragging about BLs, bragging about lvls, bragging about izzy... Every time I see this person on, the person is talking about those things, so every time I type /nm2 after hearing the first few lines.

I met many nice players in arena, and many very capable players with skills.  Many of them are very hopeful and trying to be stronger.  Although there is a general trend of ambition in the server, but i suppose that's a positive aspect.  If there is no corruption (not exactly confirmed but the GM seems to have personal preferences which are corruption), and there isn't a such big gap between the players (lvl and items), then I think this really is a great server. 

[AzuleGod]

I've played many servers, and I have to say, how is a PvP between 99 and a 99 not epic?

PvPs between level 99s are over too quickly.

That last post of mine was random, unorganized, and rather stupid.
I'll make my views clear, then leave it open for debate, if you so wish.

Community: I believe that Deliverance is filled with awesome people, although it does have a few ****.
However, this is the human race we're talking about, 50% of all humans -are- ****. (And 83% of all statistics are made up on the spot.)
If you're having trouble with ****, my advise would be to go play Tetris.
Thankfully, in Deli, you can report people for being ****.

Gameplay: The balance system, as I've said before, is half-arsed.
Agi based delays, a way to obtain items that is completely unaffected by anything in-game, badly designed customs, and a level cap at 140 all make the balance unsound.
However, Crono is trying to fix that.
The Pest card will be fixed, the Crimson Capes will be fixed, no more items will be added to the blacklist list (more on that below), I -believe- Agi based delays are going to dissapear, and some of the other customs are being changed to be more balanced.

Crono is trying, I don't think anyone could deny that.

Blacklists:
You can't just "drop the entire list", because if you do that, more people will complain "oh they just got to buy their stuff".
The best thing that can be done, as far as I can see, is to stop adding new items to the list.
The new blacklist level items that are coming to the server (slotted Ice Pick, Kiel D card, etc.) will not be obtainable via donation, which will cut down on the complaining.
I think what Crono is doing is the best that can be done, at least regarding the donation systems.

Corruption:
Henhouse cheated and was banned.
Karma~Sutra cheated and was banned for an inordinate length of time.
Jake was corrupt and was "fired".
When I said the subbies were "fired", I was trying to use the terminology of the person above me.
The subbies have been... Demoted?
Either way, I don't believe they have their powers back yet.
Crono doesn't play the server, and isn't biased toward CH.
In fact, from what I've seen of the report section, he's harsher toward CH members than any other guild.

CCP styled thread deleting:
No one has deleted my posts where I accused CH of using a hacked client.
The only screenshot of a thread that was deleted that I've seen is one where someone "suggested" that "CH stop getting on their knees for the GMs".

Being one of the most active suggestions forum members, I can't think of any that were closed for unreasonable reasons.

Screenshots of either of these cases would help cement your point.


Blue.

[annamaria]

So, annamaria here. :]

I've played deliverance-online since May of 2006 [almost 2 years, deng].

Haven't taken any breaks from dRo, ever. I still play.

I'm in the guild EXE.

Community Rating
Friendliness: I'd say the friendliness isn't that bad. Its easy to walk up to anyone and just start talking. Y'know. That kind of thing. There are rotten apples in every bunch though, so some people are jerks, but in general, everyone's pretty nice.
Eventfulness: It's not as good as it used to be. But lately people have been trying to do their own, ex: Frosty doing that question quiz where he ended up giving away like, 50 mil [one mil per question]? Pretty generous. And Tomf gave a few events, but the thing is, people are ungrateful. They complained that he was unbalancing the economy by putting more zeny into the system or whatever. *facepalm* But yeah. And there was a RR tourney just two days ago, haha. So there are occasional events.

Game Master Rating
Friendliness: They are friendly 99% of the time, but when they aren't, well, all of us have our moments.
Availability: At least one is on most of the time.
Helpfulness: They answer your questions, etc. Heck, the community helps out too.

Individual Rating
Andoresu: He's a nice guy. Helpful or kind if you PM him about something. He does an incredible job moderating the spanish forums. People say there's not much of a reason to make him a GM or whatever, but months ago when we were choosing a new one, a lot of people were requesting Hyper because they wanted a Spanish-speaking Sub GM. Now we have one. Some people just can't be satisfied.
Clair: She quit being a sub GM right? She's nice the times I've talked to her. Uhm. She has her moments though I think, like last week or something, BCing about only the old school people or w/e to join her and hang out or something. Kinda excluding, but okaaay. I think she held the RR tourney though 2 days ago.
Haisho: Apparently quit too, and I don't know much about him anyway. :/
Henhouse: He's done a lot for dRo, with the skoll and berze quests, etc. But also a lot of pointed fingers and KRUPT claims pointed at him. He has done wrong stuff, but Crono already punished him for it, so get over it.
Pado: Doesn't play anymore I think. Don't know a lot about him either.
Tipsy: Doesn't play much, but she's a sweet person. Helpful and kind if you need help or something.
Sharu: She's probably one of the best. A nice personality, and she tries. Held events, etc. Was a really good event GM.
Crono: He's done an amazing job. I can't believe he's put up with all the bullsht that's come up on the server, so I guess he's pretty patient. A funny guy from what I've seen/when I've talked to him.
Jake: This whole Jake thing has already been gone over and discussed, blah blah blah, but the point is, he's gone.

Game Play Rating
Economy: I guess its fkd up like people say. Uh, honestly I have no problem with it. Though I do remember the days where lites cost 30mil, hahah. Well, it's expected that there is going to be billions of zeny after over 3 years [? or two] of the server without any wipes or anything. Blacklists, unbalanced, blah blah, in regards to that, sure. I've never spent anything on this game. My 109 sinx got its donkey kicked by a level 99 sinx [with blacklists] who didn't even have sinx as their main char, just 2 or 3 days ago.
Guild Competition: It used to be great, but now it kinda sucks/is getting better. Entente Perfume is actually an excellent guild opposing the alliance, which is pretty cool. Nobody even bothers attacking CH, lawl. Which sucks, haha. But Last Hope is back I think, and there are a few more rising guilds.
Class Balance: Everyone picks sinx, etc etc, hahaha. The reason my main is a sinx is that [2 years ago] the guy I liked was a sinx, and I wanted to be like him and stuff. Haha. :] But yeah. Its not that bad though. Um. Wizzies, priests, LK's, are often used too. The imbalance isn't all that bad.

I'm in EXE. My guild is allied to CH. It pisses me off when everyone jumps on the bandwagon to blame everything that goes wrong on CH because well, sht. They have 140's right? They all WORKED for their 140's. They grinf like sick. They level because they WANT to be that good, haha. They strive for it. They've earned it. I know I suck because I hardly have leveled in 2 years, I'm only 109. CH is a group of really great people. They're fkin HILARIOUS, as anyone whose been in their guild will contest to [and isn't biased, lawl]. I've been in EXE ever since I joined the server because my brother went to school with most of them. I don't even think we were allied to CH for quite awhile. I joined them one day because I was in an argument with someone in EXE [haha, remember those days?]. We weren't even allied yet. And after like a day in there, I wanted to stay in CH. They were accepting, funny, etc. It took so much effort to go back to EXE, which was a group of people I knew IN REAL LIFE. CH just has that amazing effect, haha. I think the whole dual-clienting situation was taken so out of context. Sure, she did wrong and stuff, but jesus, being all OMG PERMABAN KRUPT FAVORITISM just got out of hand. I'm freakin sure that Crono would've done the same for heck, Bella [using her as an example because she's from Divine]. Crono's not a jerk. And sht, we're all human. We all make mistakes. Why can't people get that through their minds? It's not like she had a history of dual-clienting or something, lol. Also, I feel the main reason that Divine/Paw [sorry to be grouping you guys] got all pissed like that was because well, CH was/is better than them and they wanted to hurt CH in any way they could. Okay, so previously, EXE, CH, Divine, and Genesis/DDRA were allied. The 'enemies' to that alliance were Paw, Pande, etc. Then CH and Divine's relationship became rocky somehow. Divine was like, super close to allying paw. And CH wasn't going to stand for that. So they dropped Divine as an ally. I guess Divine was like fk u guyz its war nao, so they allied Paw and there was a few epic WoEs with Divine and Paw hitting CH pretty hard, haha. Then the dual-clienting thing happened, and Divine and Paw members mostly [sorry for grouping you guys in again] called for her banning, etc. Then they left the server, blah blah, everyone knows the rest.

So. I pretty much love Deliverance-online and the community. And I'm sticking with it til the end.

[NoS]

http://www.ratemyserver.net/forum/sorting-needed/deliverance-online-corruption/0/

This will answer everything, I need not say more