Dawn of Midgard and their emails

Tokeiburu · Feb 27, 2016, 02:34 PM

Heya,

I'm curious to know how Dawn of Midgard acquired their list of emails. I'm receiving spams from them from my facebook email, yet they have never received my consent. I do not play on DoM and I never registered an account over there. Apparently I've been subscribed to "Other RO servers", which is not true at all. I do not even know what Other RO is.

I haven't played many RO servers either (only one-ish), so I doubt they got it from another server. My only guess here is they've gotten it from facebook digging, which would be... somewhat disgusting if it were the case.

So I'd like to ask DoM why is it that I'm receiving your emails. And I'm talking about these, just so we're clear :

Minabe · Feb 27, 2016, 03:01 PM

Doing Tripper's job.

Tokeiburu · Feb 27, 2016, 03:14 PM

I have never played nor registered on ggRO. So they didn't get mine from there for sure.

Bue · Feb 27, 2016, 03:16 PM

maybe they got the email from ea, ra, or he.

the black aero for your gmail look slick tho

Tokeiburu · Feb 27, 2016, 03:28 PM

The email they sent it to (an hotmail one) is strickly used for facebook. rA and Hercules do not use that one.

lokiro · Feb 27, 2016, 04:11 PM

Let me explain how this retarted RO business works (as you see, i write here from gm account of some server, which is already dead)

1. FluxCP exploit => all servers with fluxcp and without updates until end of 2015 are hacked.
When i said ALL, that's mean ALL. woon / estland / tervist / finalrag / other different RO servers around the globe.

2. i was sent several reports about exploit in fluxcp to people who can fix it, and to guys who can block access to the fluxcp due to exploits, i was do this job since 2012, and nobody really care, really. They said: "this is opensource, bla bla bla, if you wish help -> push your commit". Btw, as i remember the guy who made robrowser was confirm about different of these issues in 2012 or 2013. (you can google it at ra & herc boards)

3. in 2015 after trowing s*** and making panic at different dev. boards (ra / herc) and insulting developers of fluxcp, the owners of fluxcp repo already stop ignoring this issue, and few very good guys at herc.ws and rA made few important updates and fixes to destroy exploit. (check ra & herc.ws github)

How did i start to know about these exploits? Easy-breasy! Say "thank you" to russian retarted guilds, which tried to hack me several times and was organize several ddos attacks against my different servers in past (since 2012). I have naxsi & fail2ban which send me warnings to email when idiots trying to hack cp, or trying to use different illegal chars in fields or access /data/ path. + Thx some russian guy who was confirm about that s***, when i already noticed about that. (this guy already have databases of mentioned servers above)

I did ask several times for access.log from owners of hacked servers, and all game masters afraid that, and did't even try to help me, and themself to find and confirm this issue. But only few people, not so scared bastards like other one, and they was sent to me access.log, and i was check these logs by different tools, (goaccess + custom regex requests for custom requests), and ALL was have the same pattern how hackers hacking & stealing dbs of the game servers. (tor nodes ips, the same hacker resolution of display, the same language at browser & thanks to webrtc leak, we found (not personally me) some russian bastards and french trash people who did that s***))

Overall, i do not say about DoM like about the server who sending spam to hacked db, because i do not know for sure where they did get emails.

But i have several emails from them to my email, with adversting. But it's ok in such ro scena, where haked dbs used for adversting at another ones.
As about me, when i do email adversting, i'm trying to notify player where he was play (at mine server) and why he get this email, and what he should to do to unsubscribe). I do not remember how about DoM, because i did removed their emails.

If you see a lot of russians at your server, be sure -> your server already hacked or they find a way how to cheat and bot

I'm just sharing my personal experience, i hope someone i will help to someone, who still have illusions about success servers =)

Zinnia · Feb 27, 2016, 05:01 PM

We've been given mail databases from multiple other servers. Which explains the name of the list.

If you don't want to be on the list, feel free to unsubscribe!

Bue · Feb 27, 2016, 05:03 PM

Something tells me that is not how it works.

How can you unsubscribe to something you never subscribe to?

And what would prevent another person with the same email database to automatically resubscribe the emails again?

Also, what was the justification for obtaining email listings and automatically subscribing them anyways?

Tokeiburu · Feb 27, 2016, 05:49 PM

@lokiro I can actually believe that, and it is most likely true. Though, the issue here is whether or not they've used these lists. So going into more details would be off-topic.

@Zinnia Pretty much what Bue said, that's not how it works. I don't know if you're speaking for DoM, but if you are, I would kindly tell whoever's responsible for the email lists to stop. What you're doing is illegal in both the US and Canada (not aware of the other countries' laws). It is required to have consent (or implied consent) before sending spam emails, which you clearly did not have here.

Minabe · Feb 28, 2016, 01:38 PM

Doing Tripper's job.

Herpderp · Feb 28, 2016, 01:46 PM

Zinnia paid shady dudes for mail lists so he can advertise to "retired" players, basically.

Minabe · Feb 28, 2016, 02:37 PM

Doing Tripper's job.

Herpderp · Feb 28, 2016, 03:22 PM

Hey I ain't judging.

Tokeiburu · Feb 28, 2016, 04:01 PM

Alright, well thank you for admitting it, at least. This is a shady move though, and frankly it doesn't make you guys look good at all. But hey, it's a mistake, and I sure hope you are going to fix it. Only send emails to your own players (which is implied consent and that's perfectly fine).

On a side note, DoM is the only server which sent me spam emails so far. I don't know if other servers use the same 'advertising strategies', but I sure as hell hope this won't happen again. I'm only worried that you guys are going to sell your own list at some point, but at least if that happens we'll know who's responsible for it.

Blinzer · Feb 28, 2016, 04:02 PM

I'm tired of reading DoM drama. Just let them do what they want, nobody really cares.

The prophecy is going to come true.

Tokeiburu · Feb 28, 2016, 04:12 PM

@Blinzer They've only got themselves to blame for this one. I had nothing to do with DoM up until they decided to send me those emails.

gooshgoosh · Feb 28, 2016, 06:28 PM

Quote from: lokiro on Feb 27, 2016, 04:11 PMrussians

IDK why you would want to kill a dying game but it seems some people are dead set on it. Anyway, we know why certain people don't make vids and always dispel all our dd creos+hwiz. The worst thing is many admins don't dare ban anyone because more numbers = more money. Sad when s*** players can win just because they are almost impossible to kill.

Yuzo · Feb 28, 2016, 11:14 PM

I got these emails and thought nothing of it. Nothing wrong with getting your server out there. People need a reminder it exists. I was fine receiving the emails as I might play eventually and nothing like a bit of nagging to convince someone.

Until I realised the email I did not sign up with was receiving emails. This is shady. C'mon DoM. Get your act together.

nerdfrog · Feb 29, 2016, 12:24 AM

Quote from: Zinnia on Feb 27, 2016, 05:01 PM
We've been given mail databases from multiple other servers. Which explains the name of the list.

If you don't want to be on the list, feel free to unsubscribe!

Lame scapegoat, though.

Zinnia · Feb 29, 2016, 03:37 AM

It's not illegal where I'm from. Selling/Buying mail databases is common business in Europe.

I'm really sorry if this has bothered anyone, the move was just about targetting old retired RO players from 2005~2010.
If you're not willing to receive the emails, please hit the unsubscribe button at the bottom. Though I do not think we will use the list again anytime soon.

Best,

Minabe · Feb 29, 2016, 07:29 PM

Doing Tripper's job.

eesti · Mar 01, 2016, 03:33 AM

Quote from: lokiro on Feb 27, 2016, 04:11 PM1. FluxCP exploit => all servers with fluxcp and without updates until end of 2015 are hacked.
When i said ALL, that's mean ALL. woon / estland / tervist / finalrag / other different RO servers around the globe.

We fixed this and other payment vulnerabilities in October 2014 before the start EstlandRO server and we used custom code to receive donations now.
Yes, this vulnerability has been used on Tervist with WoonRO transaction.

Playtester · Mar 01, 2016, 05:12 AM

Quote from: Minabe on Feb 29, 2016, 07:29 PMThat's a load of bull, you can't sell email lists unless you have the permission of those in the list. A fast search in google would've do instead of speaking out of ignorance, though i guess you're just doing dmg control.

Well Zinnia didn't sell them. He bought them. He isn't responsible for having to check if every single user from that list agreed to it, the seller has to make sure.

Yuzo · Mar 01, 2016, 06:10 AM

Who is this shady person selling mail lists and why the #%*& are mine on them?

Minabe · Mar 01, 2016, 10:44 AM

Doing Tripper's job.

Playtester · Mar 02, 2016, 02:46 AM

I was never in the ggRO staff lol. I never even logged into the server once.

Also selling is also only illegal if you really don't give your consent. Those RO mail lists are probably shady. But like if you sign up for an official MMORPG, the terms of use almost always include a sentence like "We reserve the right to store your data and share it with partners for advertisement purpose" (probably not literary).

I don't really see it as such a big issue as long as unsubscribing permanently actually works.

Zinnia · Mar 02, 2016, 05:52 AM

@Minabe: I really don't know why you want to make a big fuss out of it. I work in the digital marketing industry for years and exchanging mail databases is more than common. Hell there's even companies specialized in that, who ask for your data for goodies and sell your data to companies which you might be a target for.

Then if you're not interested by this company, you just unsubscribe, it takes you 2 clicks...

And fyi playtester is an rathena developer, nothing to do with ggro.

Hakk · Mar 02, 2016, 07:53 AM

The problem here is you're asking them to unsubscribe to something they never subscribe to in the first place. That's not how you get more player to join your server. In fact, it's quite annoying and disgusting.

Zinnia · Mar 02, 2016, 10:02 AM

Quote from: Hakk on Mar 02, 2016, 07:53 AM
The problem here is you're asking them to unsubscribe to something they never subscribe to in the first place. That's not how you get more player to join your server. In fact, it's quite annoying and disgusting.

Well, I saw a spike in registration from my tracking tools, so it's apparently not disgusting for everyone. As said, it's common business, 100% legal, and that's how marketing works.

Listening to you, soon it's gonna be shady to target players on facebook based on their interest.. Then all digital marketing is shady?

That's how marketing works in absolutely all industry. It's not because it's the "private ragnarok online industry" that it should be any different and we must use the same voting websites than everyone else and nothing else.

Minabe · Mar 02, 2016, 02:53 PM

Doing Tripper's job.

Zinnia · Mar 02, 2016, 03:34 PM

Quote from: Minabe on Mar 02, 2016, 02:53 PM
1. Business mail does not need an opt-in to be used, you do put the opt-out (which is mandatory in business mailing) but this isn't a company, get YOUR laws straight. Btw if you do this in your job i feel sorry for your clients.

2. I never said he was part of the staff, i said he was around the staff bc he was helping you guys (idk with what).

I'm not, i'm just making sure to have character evidence.

As a matter of fact, we created a company and our terms of use are being written by a lawyer rn.

Yuzo · Mar 02, 2016, 07:57 PM

Other than spam, I've never received an email from something I'm not subscribed to. At least have it go to my spam box...The numbers may justify your actions but soon or later this will catch up to you. I for one will not play your server after this. The way you respond is a lot different than when the server started. Your tone comes across as "I don't have time for this". Back in November/December you seemed welcoming and transparent. Get with the program Zinnia.

Zinnia · Mar 03, 2016, 03:46 AM

Quote from: Yuzo on Mar 02, 2016, 07:57 PM
Other than spam, I've never received an email from something I'm not subscribed to. At least have it go to my spam box...The numbers may justify your actions but soon or later this will catch up to you. I for one will not play your server after this. The way you respond is a lot different than when the server started. Your tone comes across as "I don't have time for this". Back in November/December you seemed welcoming and transparent. Get with the program Zinnia.

You're right. Had a lot to deal with lately and I shouldn't be so cold with both the players and my staff. But it's just about time really, back in December there wasn't as much work, today it's a completely different story.

Anyway as you say, gotta put some more efforts.