RMS Home | Guide Writing | Test Server | New Servers | Latest Reviews

Author Topic: Classic and pre-renewal close-to-official servers not so official after all  (Read 9191 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Playtester

You know what really grinds my gears?

There are quite some servers that claim they are close-to-official (some even say 100% official) and they might be on some classic episode before episode 10.

You know the first thing I do? Check Wolf and Spore in their database, because as we all know (apparently not), in episode 10, Gravity "unbalanced" the game by giving very few monsters a huge exp boost, turning a fairly well balanced game with all maps about similar good exp to a game where you really just go to the same maps leveling up all the time. And so far, every single server I've checked used the episode 13.1 stats of Wolf and Spore (and all other mobs that were changed in episode 10, there were about 20 changed).

For reference, before episode 10, Wolf had 405 HP and gave 45/32 EXP. Spore had 327 HP and gave 22/17 EXP.

After the "unbalance update", Wolf got 919 HP and gives 329/199 EXP. Spore got 510 HP and gives 66/108 EXP. Notably the damage was not increased (except slight increase of Spore's max atk). Their HP/EXP ratio turned into that of endgame content monsters, while they remained as weak as starter monsters. Gravity even put tons of both together on a single map. Everybody now just levels up on this one map all the time (and bots love it too).

Servers have neglected to revert this change for so long now, that now everybody thinks RO has always been unbalanced. So even if I visit the website of an actual customized server, I get haunted by this because the server owner would write something like "Official servers were never really balanced, only few maps were viable to visit".

tl;dr
If you are a server owner making a classic server and actually claim it is a 100% official experience, then please also provide 100% official monster stats.

(For those too lazy to do research: https://rathena.org/board/applications/core/interface/file/attachment.php?id=13212)

Advertisement

Offline distilled1

Good point, Playtester!
I agree. Exploration and adventure of Ragnarok Online's entire world should be desired, and not just a few maps here and there.
I certainly was not aware of this unbalanced update you described, and as you suggest, apparently not many are.

I've just assumed Ragnarok Online was always this unbalanced, and left it at that.
I've sought other games when desiring more balance, such as Dungeons and Dragons or whatever else, and returned to Ragnarok when I missed it.
It would be nice to have a more balanced Ragnarok server.
DOWN WITH MULTI-CLIENTING!

Offline Kolby

Wow never knew this at all but I never levelled up there except for very rare instances always at payon dungeon lol. I guess its more relatable on low rates. Was there any other updates that caused a significant experience difference?
Searching for friends is hard
Searching for companionship is harder
Be grateful to those who accompany you
On this Road, like the Wayfarer(A Person Travelling) finding it's way back home!

Playing since: 2004

Offline Playtester

Wow never knew this at all but I never levelled up there except for very rare instances always at payon dungeon lol. I guess its more relatable on low rates. Was there any other updates that caused a significant experience difference?
Only new content.

Metaling and Geographers made leveling fairly easy for ranges classes, kind of also ruined early partying a bit because no Acolytes were needed to party up with anymore.

Of course the addition of Bio3 and Thor completely through over the usual HP:Exp ratio, but I guess you could argue those places are also harder than any other places ever before. Still it kinda changed the gameplay style from a group working together and player trying to exploit the mob AI to never be hit without protection (because otherwise you're dead).

The last one that comes to mind is the addition of Anubis. Traditionally undead monsters always gave significantly less Exp than other races due to Offensive Heal and Turn Undead being a thing (see e.g. Ancient Mummy 40000 HP -> 8000/3500 Exp, this was the maximum Gravity was willing to make undead mobs give back then), as Priest if you couldn't find a group you could still somewhat level up a little bit, but partying up was always more viable. With the addition of Anubis, suddenly there was no reason to party up at all anymore. Priests would just solo at Anubis forever (or at least until Rebirth).

These would be the updates I'd consider the most "unbalancing".


On a sidenote since you mentioned Payon Dungeon, the Episode 10 update also increased Exp of Munak (if you ever wondered why Munak gives more than Bongun even though Bongun is clearly harder) and also Nine Tail.

Not all of the Exp updates were bad or unreasonable. They were intended to make Rune-Midgard an interesting place to level again, but unfortunately, it was only done for a few monsters on a few maps. And for Wolves and Spores they simply went completely overboard.
« Last Edit: Dec 05, 2020, 05:22 pm by Playtester »

Offline Kolby

Only new content.

Metaling and Geographers made leveling fairly easy for ranges classes, kind of also ruined early partying a bit because no Acolytes were needed to party up with anymore.

Of course the addition of Bio3 and Thor completely through over the usual HP:Exp ratio, but I guess you could argue those places are also harder than any other places ever before. Still it kinda changed the gameplay style from a group working together and player trying to exploit the mob AI to never be hit without protection (because otherwise you're dead).

The last one that comes to mind is the addition of Anubis. Traditionally undead monsters always gave significantly less Exp than other races due to Offensive Heal and Turn Undead being a thing (see e.g. Ancient Mummy 40000 HP -> 8000/3500 Exp, this was the maximum Gravity was willing to make undead mobs give back then), as Priest if you couldn't find a group you could still somewhat level up a little bit, but partying up was always more viable. With the addition of Anubis, suddenly there was no reason to party up at all anymore. Priests would just solo at Anubis forever (or at least until Rebirth).

These would be the updates I'd consider the most "unbalancing".


On a sidenote since you mentioned Payon Dungeon, the Episode 10 update also increased Exp of Munak (if you ever wondered why Munak gives more than Bongun even though Bongun is clearly harder) and also Nine Tail.

Not all of the Exp updates were bad or unreasonable. They were intended to make Rune-Midgard an interesting place to level again, but unfortunately, it was only done for a few monsters on a few maps. And for Wolves and Spores they simply went completely overboard.
lol yeah I remember that now you mention bongun having lesser exp haha

When was Anubis actually released? I remember grinding ancient mummies on high rated servers if I went low rate always went to the seals. Didn't even know Anubis was a thing until years later people abuse it in mid-rates.

Yeah it's sad nobody parties with acos anymore. I remember it was such a relief to see one, or rather it was a critical component on your party. Thankfully my guild leader was an OP alcolyte with a ghostring card haha.

Oh dude I remember the Bio3 days, it was so difficult to get the pass but once you get it it was worth it! We were leeched by a champion who had a Garm card(still have no idea how he got it) and he was just helping everybody level at bio3. The mobs would just froze when he came and he would asura them no problem. took me around 7 years to finally figure out how to beat 1646 aka seyren windsor and his goons tho lol
Searching for friends is hard
Searching for companionship is harder
Be grateful to those who accompany you
On this Road, like the Wayfarer(A Person Travelling) finding it's way back home!

Playing since: 2004

Offline Playtester

Fairly sure Anubis was added in episode 11.3.

In fact Anubis is actually a pretty old monster that existed before but was removed.

Of course back then Anubis was more balanced with 12359 HP and giving 2906/2700 EXP.

Offline Xellie

I'm really glad to see this topic from someone who isn't me! (I think we've met in other places where there were *ahem* differences of opinion on what official means.)

I'm actually going through the process of collecting up such things, all the lost stuff. Spawn changes are one that really get to me. Some of the skill changes through the game's progression and there's no real good source of it all out there for server owners, I think.

Offline Playtester

I'm really glad to see this topic from someone who isn't me! (I think we've met in other places where there were *ahem* differences of opinion on what official means.)

I'm actually going through the process of collecting up such things, all the lost stuff. Spawn changes are one that really get to me. Some of the skill changes through the game's progression and there's no real good source of it all out there for server owners, I think.
Feel free to contact me, if you need any help.

Unfortunately, it's gotten really hard to dig up the information with many of the places that had the information closing down, most of Doddler's episode update stuff is really hard to find now too and Warp Portal forums are blocked from Europe. So I have to mostly go from memory and old files I still have.

There are still sources on the old spawns, though, so that could definitely be restored.

Offline Tenuguu

I would really love to see a central point of information like a database/wiki for changes throughout the ages, something definitive and comprehensive all in one place. All information is so fragmented now, piecing together what you can from archived sites such as doddlers, forum posts, etc, and information on update changes seems to change from one list to the next. How cool would it be to have a database where you can change the "version" you're on and have the information change accordingly? Can only dream, lol.
Current Server(s):
RetRO - 1x/1x/1x
Ragnarok Roleplay Online - 0.75x/0.75x/1x

Offline Xellie

Feel free to contact me, if you need any help.

Unfortunately, it's gotten really hard to dig up the information with many of the places that had the information closing down, most of Doddler's episode update stuff is really hard to find now too and Warp Portal forums are blocked from Europe. So I have to mostly go from memory and old files I still have.

There are still sources on the old spawns, though, so that could definitely be restored.

Shooting you my discord info in DM

Offline Nova

Feel free to contact me, if you need any help.

Unfortunately, it's gotten really hard to dig up the information with many of the places that had the information closing down, most of Doddler's episode update stuff is really hard to find now too and Warp Portal forums are blocked from Europe. So I have to mostly go from memory and old files I still have.

There are still sources on the old spawns, though, so that could definitely be restored.
https://www.torproject.org/download/ to access warpportal.
I am not associated with NovaRO.

Offline Neffletics

After seeing this topic, I felt the need to share my old database.

https://rathena.org/board/topic/126711-episode-5-mob-spawn-and-mob-database/
www.solaceragnarok.com | The only server worth playing in SEA | Started in December 2019
Pre-Renewal | No Dual Logging | 2,000+ Players Daily | Best Economy | Best WoE

Offline Playtester

After seeing this topic, I felt the need to share my old database.

https://rathena.org/board/topic/126711-episode-5-mob-spawn-and-mob-database/
That mob database is at least episode 13.1.

The spawns are somewhat close to episode 5, but there are some differences too.

And you made some mistakes for example you defined the spawns for gef_dun02 twice, so all the spawns are double as high as they should be, then you commented out Doppelganger... but it actually spawned there (once).

Offline Neffletics

I believe most of the boss monsters were commented because I used to have a script that activates PK when an MVP is alive.

As for the mob_db, we followed the stats and drops of a hardbound guidebook based on pRO.

 /wah
www.solaceragnarok.com | The only server worth playing in SEA | Started in December 2019
Pre-Renewal | No Dual Logging | 2,000+ Players Daily | Best Economy | Best WoE

Offline distilled1

I believe most of the boss monsters were commented because I used to have a script that activates PK when an MVP is alive.

As for the mob_db, we followed the stats and drops of a hardbound guidebook based on pRO.

 /wah

What is this "hardbound guidebook" you speak of? A physical guidebook you own in real life? It sounds interesting.
DOWN WITH MULTI-CLIENTING!