Botting, WPE, AHK and other methods of cheating questions

misterj · Oct 17, 2012, 04:59 PM

That change just seemed to make it such that skills that normally didn't have huge delays start having huge delays. If you try priesting on a server on ra it sucks a lot because blessing for example has a huge delay compared to normal.

I never liked harmony because it means I can't connect to servers from my university. Probably has something to do with packet hiding, the only anti-cheat program for any game that gives me that issue. Booo!

From what I can tell, Harmony does the following
1) Disguise packets being sent - in a way that keeps wpe spying from being pulled off. I suppose this is good! But it really just helps mask bugs in *Athena/mod more than anything.
2) Prevent users from botting with openkore. This isn't bad, but on most servers you can still easily bot with homunculi/autohotkey macros. In the end I don't think it helps all that much, on low rates bots are sort of a necessary evil. Just depends. Most people would take this as a good thing.
3) Prevent users from running ROMedic. This isn't a bad thing either, but it's been bypassed by linkz 1.3 already, so it doesn't accomplish that. Even then, autohotkey autopot macros running from the user's HP/SP bar already accomplish the same job, so I don't think it's really worth it.
4) Prevent users from using undesired (by the staff at least) GRF effects, like enlarged stalker footprints, and of course nodelay. The ones for hiding and stalker footprints aren't really useful (because you can just use sunlight boxes or use sight and so on anyways), but preventing nodelay is very good! The problem is, again, that linkz/nodelay and at least another guild's program already bypasses it. The only real solution to nodelaying are server-side delays on certain skills.

On servers where it is run, it really just shifts the advantage to cheaters. Look at Divinity now where AHK and ROMedic are blocked for most players, but for the guild with 1.3 it's working just fine.

So... Harmony disguises packets, and helps cheaters (and guilds with programmers) win. Go Harmony!

Boreas · Oct 17, 2012, 06:28 PM

If you cannot get Harmony to work then you don't have enough knowledge about the server source and the client to run a server at all.

End of story.

Thoth · Oct 19, 2012, 05:25 PM

if botting is "necessary", its a design flaw with the game. yes, grind is a design flaw.

yC · Oct 19, 2012, 09:25 PM

From the harmony FAQ page:

Quote
Server Setup
[...]
How do I install Harmony on my server?

Harmony consists of small source patch files (unified diff format) and several new source files.
The server installer (available on Windows and Linux) automatically tries to apply the patch files to your source base and performs all other necessary steps (patching Makefiles, copying files).
Instructions on manual setup and hands-on setup support are included in all licenses.

Quote
Client Setup

How do I apply Harmony to my client?

Harmony is shipped as a modified game exe. Similar to XRay, there are no diffs applied to this exe. A matching diff file is included in all packages, but it is also possible to use third party diffs (like Shinryos diff patcher).
It is also possible to upload your current game exe and have Harmony applied to it.

I don't know, where does it say I need a certain level of background knowledge to get Harmony "working as intended". Their FAQ doesn't say. Based from these Q&A I'd be 1) a brainless kid 2) wanna open server 3) setup server 4) buy and apply harmony 5) release client wait for player. But the fact is, it doesn't work like this. Or you won't know until you get into issues with player / connection / etc.

I am not picking on Boreas, but based on your user experience and comment, I think we can say they are making it sound easier than it actually is. If the end-user's knowledge is taken into consideration it'll sure help to make it a better product. I wouldn't doubt the ability of Harmony, just the fact that not everyone has the knowledge to unlock this ability makes the product less of what it is.

misterj · Oct 19, 2012, 11:23 PM

Quote from: Thoth on Oct 19, 2012, 05:25 PM
if botting is "necessary", its a design flaw with the game. yes, grind is a design flaw.

Indeed, it's just sort of the way you make up for the fact that there aren't a few thousand players at once farming boring items. I mean, someone's gotta get those horn cards, let's have rogerasda89d489 do it. And rogerasda89d489 is a bot!

MrRyan · Oct 20, 2012, 07:11 AM

Harmony only works best upon a new server launch.

If you install Harmony after your server launch and you already have players that have downloaded, its best to create a brand new client install and ask them all to uninstall & re-download.

Intricate · Oct 23, 2012, 02:50 AM

Bots are easily prevented without any protection by having extremely active GMs patrolling. Though this of course, is not flawless.

I think you should consult the creator of Elecom Shield, last I heard he came back.

Boreas · Oct 23, 2012, 08:32 AM

Quote from: MrRyan on Oct 20, 2012, 07:11 AM
Harmony only works best upon a new server launch.

If you install Harmony after your server launch and you already have players that have downloaded, its best to create a brand new client install and ask them all to uninstall & re-download.

TalonRO was roughly 2 years old when we introduced it, we had no major problems.

DeePee · Oct 23, 2012, 10:55 AM

Quote from: Boreas on Oct 23, 2012, 08:32 AM
TalonRO was roughly 2 years old when we introduced it, we had no major problems.

Actually, closer to 4 years old, haha.

Thoth · Oct 23, 2012, 06:50 PM

Quote from: Intricate on Oct 23, 2012, 02:50 AM
Bots are easily prevented without any protection by having extremely active GMs patrolling. Though this of course, is not flawless.

I think you should consult the creator of Elecom Shield, last I heard he came back.

bots work harder than peoples. therefore you just need to have anti-bot bots!
(just use packet encryption please)