Anyone interested in a Trans Class 99/70 server with tweaked formula's?

[Sarin]

I honestly don't like that drops boost for partying. It will be abused, and will create a lot of annoyance. Even if you do your best to prevent multiclienting, it won't be 100% effective, then you have the AFK+autofollow possibility, and you'll see way too much spam related to this...

If you insist on a drop boost, it should be much less, probably something like ((amount of people in pty/max pty size)*drop rate of item )% for obtaining an extra drop, given randomly to someone in party, so overall a full party would get double drops from kills. It will still function as incentive to party, while it should make the attempts to abuse the system not worth the trouble.

Overall, you should be careful with partying incentives, so you won't deny players the option of effective soloing. Don't fool yourself into thinking you can get large, stable population to your server. It's my experience that RO servers that attempt to extensively modify the game mechanics don't attract many people, as those who like to try out new stuff mostly switched to other, newer MMOs.

All that said, I would try out your server if it gets online.

[Star Platinum]

Only problem I can see, aside from what's been mentioned, is that some of this sounds like it'd make soloing way too easy.

PVM gear so you can go to dungeons above your current level?  I have a story similar to this.

On AnimaRO, back in 2006, I made a thief to start.  I managed to get a Mystletainn card from an OCA, on that server it's customized to give +30 atk, and +20 flee.  Keep in mind it was a 5x server as well.  +30 atk and +20 flee is a huge boost, especially to a low level thief.  It allowed me to level up in places faster than what the guide recommended to me.  Was this a bad thing?  No, because it was a 5x server.  And since I was brand new to the game, it still took me weeks and weeks to level.

But my point is, if you are going to have higher than 5x rates (which you probably will) then it becomes an issue.  Because then you wrestle with leveling way too fast and blowing through all the content straight to the end game, completely negating the use of parties until max.  And then, how long will the end game entertain people who have been playing this game since 2006 or before?  Unless of course, you completely change that too.

[Pano]

I honestly don't like that drops boost for partying. It will be abused, and will create a lot of annoyance. Even if you do your best to prevent multiclienting, it won't be 100% effective, then you have the AFK+autofollow possibility, and you'll see way too much spam related to this...

If you insist on a drop boost, it should be much less, probably something like ((amount of people in pty/max pty size)*drop rate of item )% for obtaining an extra drop, given randomly to someone in party, so overall a full party would get double drops from kills. It will still function as incentive to party, while it should make the attempts to abuse the system not worth the trouble.

Overall, you should be careful with partying incentives, so you won't deny players the option of effective soloing. Don't fool yourself into thinking you can get large, stable population to your server. It's my experience that RO servers that attempt to extensively modify the game mechanics don't attract many people, as those who like to try out new stuff mostly switched to other, newer MMOs.

All that said, I would try out your server if it gets online.

I'm known to see possible abuse. Don't worry. I became a master at this because when I played RO, my main goal was to find ways to abuse the system. Trust me, I won't implement something if I feel it's abusable. I'll wait to find the perfect implementation that won't be.

Only problem I can see, aside from what's been mentioned, is that some of this sounds like it'd make soloing way too easy.

PVM gear so you can go to dungeons above your current level?  I have a story similar to this.

On AnimaRO, back in 2006, I made a thief to start.  I managed to get a Mystletainn card from an OCA, on that server it's customized to give +30 atk, and +20 flee.  Keep in mind it was a 5x server as well.  +30 atk and +20 flee is a huge boost, especially to a low level thief.  It allowed me to level up in places faster than what the guide recommended to me.  Was this a bad thing?  No, because it was a 5x server.  And since I was brand new to the game, it still took me weeks and weeks to level.

But my point is, if you are going to have higher than 5x rates (which you probably will) then it becomes an issue.  Because then you wrestle with leveling way too fast and blowing through all the content straight to the end game, completely negating the use of parties until max.  And then, how long will the end game entertain people who have been playing this game since 2006 or before?  Unless of course, you completely change that too.

I don't think you understand the concept I have in mind. Yes, soloing WILL BE EASY, but it will take you about 10x longer then doing it in party.
Example:
(Mob Exp * PartyMember) + (Mob Exp * (PartyMember - 1))/2
Mob with 1000 exp when solo.
Party of 2 = 2500 exp
Party of 3 = 4000 exp
Party of 4 = 5500 exp

So making a party result in MORE experience for each player, not more "global" experience for the party divided by each member. That's why I'm really looking at making it a low-ish rate server; If you play as a party, it will feel like a mid rate.

This has various effect that I have to consider (some positive some negative) but in the end, I want the party players to be highly rewarded compared to others.

Like I said, there will need systems to make sure this is not abused, yes.

[Sarin]

I'm known to see possible abuse. Don't worry. I became a master at this because when I played RO, my main goal was to find ways to abuse the system. Trust me, I won't implement something if I feel it's abusable. I'll wait to find the perfect implementation that won't be.

I don't think you understand the concept I have in mind. Yes, soloing WILL BE EASY, but it will take you about 10x longer then doing it in party.
Example:
(Mob Exp * PartyMember) + (Mob Exp * (PartyMember - 1))/2
Mob with 1000 exp when solo.
Party of 2 = 2500 exp
Party of 3 = 4000 exp
Party of 4 = 5500 exp

So making a party result in MORE experience for each player, not more "global" experience for the party divided by each member. That's why I'm really looking at making it a low-ish rate server; If you play as a party, it will feel like a mid rate.

This has various effect that I have to consider (some positive some negative) but in the end, I want the party players to be highly rewarded compared to others.

Like I said, there will need systems to make sure this is not abused, yes.

If that was supposed to be reassuring, it failed. You'll never completely eradicate abuse. Best you can do is to make it not worth the effort.

And as I said...soloing still needs to be effective. Getting a party even for hunting basic supplies is crazy, especially on lower population where you might not even find other people hunting on same spot. And imagine the impact on, for example, plant cultivation. Besides, I don't want to be swamped by random plzers everytime I come into town...and with such huge party boosts, it is likely to happen, as even if you spend half of your time begging people for party, it will still be more effective than soloing.

[Pano]

If that was supposed to be reassuring, it failed. You'll never completely eradicate abuse. Best you can do is to make it not worth the effort.

And as I said...soloing still needs to be effective. Getting a party even for hunting basic supplies is crazy, especially on lower population where you might not even find other people hunting on same spot. And imagine the impact on, for example, plant cultivation. Besides, I don't want to be swamped by random plzers everytime I come into town...and with such huge party boosts, it is likely to happen, as even if you spend half of your time begging people for party, it will still be more effective than soloing.

And you think I didn't already though about that? Either way, I don't have to reassure anyone. It's an idea, a possible project, and the only reason this post exists is to see how many people reacts to it. I wrote about 5% of what's going on in my head at the moment regarding this project. Don't make conclusion without the facts, please.

Ps, I mean no disrespect. Please don't take this post in an agressive manner.

[Thoth]

Im not saying split the 100% drop rate to the party members. I'm saying give the 100% drop rate to EACH player. So yes, statisticly, every member will add 100% drop rate. (When I say 100%, it's 100% of the chosen rate. I don't know the rates we'll be going for but it's not 1x. Nobody would ever play this server...)

3x rates when 3 party members, 4x when 4 members, etc. gives the same effect as what you said above and nobody will notice the difference. the impression you gave was that when one person gets a card, the card is cloned and everyone in the party does at the same time.

Thats an idea but i'd like to make it worst. That's just a nuisanse, not a block.

it is a block. first consider if people use some server with dead branch rooms, abra rooms, or even abra the indoor thief bugs at archer village. the champs will walk in the portal and be invulnerable for a few seconds, then asura the mvp before it has a chance to hit them. by stealing the monk's balls, they must first summon spirit spheres, which ends their invulnerability and the mvp can kill them during their skill delay if they have no tank.
stealing their balls is a method to stop mvping without a tank.

Mistress is... 10 minutes to find 10 seconds to kill. not the most fun mvp to try to camp.

When I say it will be easier, I mean because of the PVM gear I would implement. And when I say easier, I mean you'll be able to do dungeons too high for your level which leads to faster leveling. Not that you should grind even more those easy dungeons. And with the insane benefit in Exp and drops in parties, I feel people will take that step, gear up and go leveling at some more interesting places. Hell, maybe we'll see some Bio3 parties coming back in the scene!

there were plenty of bio3 parties on eternityro v3 (7x rate).
people must feel a strong need to party in places impossible for them to solo, and a need to do it often. rates being too high kill this need- why bother when you can get 99/70 on ant eggs? direct dungeon warpers do as well. why party your champion with profs in bio3 when you can just heal sp in town and use the npc warper once every time you cast asura? if its too easy, players become too powerful, they will just solo it and not need a party. and parties wont exist.

the late game bottlenecks in RO are not exp, but items- item rates should be increased more than exp rates. servers that do the opposite don't understand this game. more powerful items aren't needed- rather, there needs to be more interesting items that open up new possibilities. something for tanks that temporarily improves their damage the more pain they take. something that cuts your vit vs biochemists. buffed autocast cards so they can actually do something besides look cool. a nerfed gtb available to all that takes full dmg from magic but blocks dispel, so smiths might be able to actually do something vs profs, and magic wont be completely defeated by a single card.

if you want to know what happens when you just make things "more powerful" just look at any highrate that goes beyond normal level limits, any server with kaho horns and unnerfed mvp cards easily available.
"more powerful" is not needed. "more possibilities" is.

[Pano]

3x rates when 3 party members, 4x when 4 members, etc. gives the same effect as what you said above and nobody will notice the difference. the impression you gave was that when one person gets a card, the card is cloned and everyone in the party does at the same time.

That's not true. Just raising the drop rate doesnt have the same effect, especially for 50%+ drop rate items.

it is a block. first consider if people use some server with dead branch rooms, abra rooms, or even abra the indoor thief bugs at archer village. the champs will walk in the portal and be invulnerable for a few seconds, then asura the mvp before it has a chance to hit them. by stealing the monk's balls, they must first summon spirit spheres, which ends their invulnerability and the mvp can kill them during their skill delay if they have no tank.
stealing their balls is a method to stop mvping without a tank.

Not true. I've portal visted randgris on a server that removed the spheres on portal.

Mistress is... 10 minutes to find 10 seconds to kill. not the most fun mvp to try to camp.

She only teleport like a **** if you make mistakes while fighting her, but yea, it's not fun. When I camped her, I only have a logged off creo on the map, fly wing, AD her, log off. She never TP'd unless i failed my first AD.

there were plenty of bio3 parties on eternityro v3 (7x rate).

Yea, that was fun

people must feel a strong need to party in places impossible for them to solo, and a need to do it often. rates being too high kill this need- why bother when you can get 99/70 on ant eggs? direct dungeon warpers do as well. why party your champion with profs in bio3 when you can just heal sp in town and use the npc warper once every time you cast asura? if its too easy, players become too powerful, they will just solo it and not need a party. and parties wont exist.

People want to make the grinding as fast as possible. If things that are easy are 5 times slower, they will still pick the harder one. That said, the harder one requires a party and "custom" PVM gear? They'll get it and do it. The only incentive to drop parties at the moment is that it's actually slower and you loose drops to share.

the late game bottlenecks in RO are not exp, but items- item rates should be increased more than exp rates. servers that do the opposite don't understand this game. more powerful items aren't needed- rather, there needs to be more interesting items that open up new possibilities. something for tanks that temporarily improves their damage the more pain they take. something that cuts your vit vs biochemists. buffed autocast cards so they can actually do something besides look cool. a nerfed gtb available to all that takes full dmg from magic but blocks dispel, so smiths might be able to actually do something vs profs, and magic wont be completely defeated by a single card.

Theres a few things i don't like in that, but i like the idea of Dmg per HP missing. Didn't think of that one. (Olaf ftw)

if you want to know what happens when you just make things "more powerful" just look at any highrate that goes beyond normal level limits, any server with kaho horns and unnerfed mvp cards easily available.
"more powerful" is not needed. "more possibilities" is.

Don't need that lesson but thanks

[misterj]

here's a few things i think servers should do to break up the monotony..
1) mvps need to be instanced. less drama and s*** over people fighting mvps. tactics can't be copied that way (semi-irrelevant by now, though), more items show up on the market (that is; no monopolization. i subscribe to the same philosophy as thoth in saying that more items and more possibilities should exist)
2) for non-re servers, re items need to be adjusted to non-re styles and released. same for their maps and mobs. re mob stats are easily translatable to non-re def. a lot of the 3rd job skills correspond to 2nd or 2nd-trans skills, for item effects.

[Pano]

1) mvps need to be instanced. less drama and s*** over people fighting mvps. tactics can't be copied that way (semi-irrelevant by now, though), more items show up on the market (that is; no monopolization. i subscribe to the same philosophy as thoth in saying that more items and more possibilities should exist)

I don't agree for 2 reasons. First, inter-guild drama is a good thing. Second, competition on MVPs is what makes MVPing fun.

2) for non-re servers, re items need to be adjusted to non-re styles and released. same for their maps and mobs. re mob stats are easily translatable to non-re def. a lot of the 3rd job skills correspond to 2nd or 2nd-trans skills, for item effects.

I know

[CrimsonRed]

I think it's a cool idea. I'd prolly play, at least to try it out, what kept me interested in EssenceRO where all the reworked skill/stat mechanics, so it's definitely possible to keep RO functional and retain the RO feel with custom formulae.
While you're at it why not even rework some skill mechanics? And perhaps give extended jobs a bit of a compensation too? Because well, with all the class and gear updates, Gunslingers and Ninja are far beyond outdated.

inb4 who would use Gunslinger for woe/bg anyways. I'm sure server owners don't wanna alienate players regardless of whatever class they play.

[Thoth]

inb4 who would use Gunslinger for woe/bg anyways. I'm sure server owners don't wanna alienate players regardless of whatever class they play.

I've used both.
ninja is okish for trolling champs/creos in bg, but doesn't have any woe option without significant gamechanges- to make final strike builds good or ways to resist stun for magic types. and the water skill slowing allies is not good. dispell working on tatami status is also dumb (since it already erases bragi and tatami's cooldown is the same as its protection time- making you unable to do anything else), and tatami can be owned by LP/ganbantein anyway.
gunslinger is useful in woe, but not fun in bg unless your server fixes the bug with using cracker vs players (only thing you can do with a shield on, and matters alot vs wizards/snipers). ground drift also needs some damage/radius/stats effect buffs, it feels about as useful as slow poison

[Pano]

To anyone following this Thread, this will happen. I'm in Dev Mode, getting everything together. Website and forum will be up over the weekend. Intern beta server will be up and running tonight or tomorrow. Todo lists will be done by friday.

Estimated opening date : Mid-late December.

KICKING IT INTO HIGH GEAR!

[yC]

You sure you don't want to hear more opinions before execution?  This thread might not represent the general taste.

[Styx]

Well, some ideas are intresting but I clearly see the wish to control a certain style to play this game.
For instance I doubt the policy solo versus goups is wise. Leveling in a group was always superior to solo gameplay.

I think it will be very hard to compare ingame changes regarding changed formula's if the setup is also drifting away from original settings.
Regarding Pre-Renewal there are other important choices having influence as from which source you will run it.
rathena only develops Renewal and Pre-Renewal is just a spinn-off for them.
Their current svn is very different from original and though they offer many options for setup, it leads away from original gameplay Pre-renewal.
While this can be good and handy for the owner, in practice it will lead to a server that offers more restrictions then options for the player.

Anyway GL and I hope it will be an interesting project for you.

[Pano]

You sure you don't want to hear more opinions before execution?  This thread might not represent the general taste.

I would definitely like more opinions but I also would like the server up for the holidays, which means time is against us.

Well, some ideas are intresting but I clearly see the wish to control a certain style to play this game.
For instance I doubt the policy solo versus goups is wise. Leveling in a group was always superior to solo gameplay.

I think it will be very hard to compare ingame changes regarding changed formula's if the setup is also drifting away from original settings.
Regarding Pre-Renewal there are other important choices having influence as from which source you will run it.
rathena only develops Renewal and Pre-Renewal is just a spinn-off for them.
Their current svn is very different from original and though they offer many options for setup, it leads away from original gameplay Pre-renewal.
While this can be good and handy for the owner, in practice it will lead to a server that offers more restrictions then options for the player.

Anyway GL and I hope it will be an interesting project for you.

What kind of limitations are you referring to?