Anyone going to play Dawn of Midgard?

Started by Finch, Dec 03, 2015, 08:46 AM

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Minabe

Quote from: Blinzer on Dec 09, 2015, 07:00 PM
The players keep buying into servers like these and never learn from the past 100 servers just like these that there is nothing good to come of it. They are clones of every other server, provide nothing interesting or creative, and are marketted to get the same idiots who keep coming back to this circlejerk(and because they keep coming back) praying for god knows what heavenly promised land of which they only have a vague idea of themselves.
Pretty much this, thing is, in RO players are what make it unique but as a dead game it has no players, only the same ppl left trying to find that "promised land".
Quote from: Blinzer on Dec 09, 2015, 07:00 PM
A stupid pre-trans WoE doesn't change anything. Retarded automated events don't change anything. Reverting back to the old ways some skills work to appeal to some nostalgic morons doesn't change anything. Having a pretty site(and it is VERY well done) doesn't change anything. Changing a couple of wizard spells to work slightly different isn't going to change anything. All's you've done is recycled the same old s*** again, and you've even went as far as recycling the s*** of a generation past.

Who are you trying to fool? All the great players quit 7 years ago to avoid you.

Don't get mad at me for saying the truth, get mad at yourselves for making it the truth. I really am sorry I have to intervene/sabotage in such an abrupt manner, but you have put me in a position where if I do not you will completely ruin any chances of this game making a return ever again.
A follow up but in the end the same thing, dead game = no players = dead game, since pservers have been milking dry the community left it's been but a cycle where everytime they lose ppl, most of which end up coming back and falling yet again for it. Kind of Mexico's situation with it's "democratic" government (putting a front while killing it's population on the side), those milking it don't care as long as it lasts and those milked "care", just not enough to do anything about it.

Quote from: Bue on Dec 09, 2015, 07:20 PM
Blitzer is having a mental breakdown.
Seems he knows what killed (and will kill) the game, pservers staff community. If only RO hadn't been used as a scam so many times maybe new servers wouldn't be seen as just that (yet since years ago it's all they are).

Seb

Quote from: Blinzer on Dec 09, 2015, 07:00 PM


Retarded automated events don't change anything.  Having a pretty site(and it is VERY well done) doesn't change anything. Changing a couple of wizard spells to work slightly different isn't going to change anything. All's you've done is recycled the same old s*** again, and you've even went as far as recycling the s*** of a generation past.



Mind if I ask where is that coming from? or how did you arrive to such conclusion?

Bue

Quote from: Minabe on Dec 09, 2015, 08:09 PM
Seems he knows what killed (and will kill) the game, pservers staff community.

No, he does not.

The game loses players because its stale.

Private servers die en masses because of inexperience nubs.

Inexperience nubs are the problem.

You know who you are.

Mrew2

Quote from: Bue on Dec 09, 2015, 10:44 PM
No, he does not.

The game loses players because its stale.

Private servers die en masses because of inexperience nubs.

Inexperience nubs are the problem.

You know who you are.
Private servers killed private servers. Increased rates spoil their players, players developing standards that can't match reality (WoE, Server catering to what they want) and inexperienced staffs just rehashing the same stuff and hoping no ones notices (same bugs, minor annoyances of private servers that everyone just got used to). The server owners that actually take the time to do work on their server for more than just a month or two end up either not even opening their server, for whatever reason, or changing RO in general because they see how "flawed" it can seem and thus no one plays on those servers because they're too different from vanilla. Either way you look at it, "good" servers are only good for a month until they die. People don't strive for a journey that never ends because nobody really wants a server that never ends, hence the whole "needs to have above X rate". It's sad what RO has become.

Bue

Blaming the players and the volunteers while producing garbage is the epitome of a nub.

Why go down that route?


Mrew2

Oh, you don't want a discussion. My bad~

belowthebelt

With that kind of rates, people will just zoom past low levels and multiclienting just promotes soloing.

Inochi

aestecially , the splash is really cute. i wonder what the full site will be!
free warper, healers, no op donations, rcx support while running eAthena and the server looks like its heading the right direction. If anything I'm here for the ride (reading forums and seeing that truth tea)

the logo does remind me of final fantasy lll though. its cute. zinnia was really passionate when i saw him early 2014 and knows what a server needs.


Asela is head dev and.......OMG
<3

Minabe

Quote from: Bue on Dec 09, 2015, 10:44 PM
No, he does not.
The game loses players because its stale.
Private servers die en masses because of inexperience nubs.
Inexperience nubs are the problem.
You know who you are.
That is a result not the cause, as long as inexperience nubs can easily milk the game it will keep losing players (and attracting inexperienced nubs), the combination of both makes it stale.

Quote from: Bue on Dec 10, 2015, 12:02 AM
Blaming the players and the volunteers while producing garbage is the epitome of a nub.

Why go down that route?
That pservers killed pservers might be arguable, that everything they did added up to make the game what it is now is a fact. From cattering to a wider playerbase while diluting the game experience (or creating new ones) to scaming and DDoSing to remove the competition and make a better proffit.

I'd say the point of the argument is that the game itself isn't a problem, there's simply no good place to play the actual game.

Blinzer

#39
Quote from: Seb on Dec 09, 2015, 08:13 PM
Mind if I ask where is that coming from? or how did you arrive to such conclusion?

Spoiler

[close]

^ From the front of your highlights. Your changes are null factors in practice, and rolling your episodes back is not going to magically make the game better. I'm sorry that with all your personnel you are still so lazy that the only solution you can come up with is removing elements from the game.


In this message I am addressing everyone in this topic who has replied.


The spiral of death that has fallen upon ragnarok is a complete circle, hence community(players and servers). The reality is that every player is looking for something different, but falls back to the same type of server because they are scared that what is different may ruin what they know is already good. Server makers are aware of this and present a small change to appeal to players and make them think that their server may be "the one".

A small change on paper seems like a big change for a player who has always and only played on the same thing, which is what makes people willing to try something that is only slightly different. It's close enough for them to be able to relate to what they're used to seeing, and allows them to make the comparison with their ideal to what is presented to them. Because server owners are afraid of making changes players will not like(and want to make money with the least work possible), these changes always end up being a non-factor but are made to appear as if they make significant revolutionary changes to the game. In the end, the community ends up listing them all under the same category of trash by the time they close(typically within a year).

Then you get people like Bue roaming the streets. People who think they know it all, claim that the game is "stale" and yet promote the pinnacle of staleness. They are wannabes of the legends that once existed in this game that they could never become, and destroy everything good that tries to bloom. They talk down on everyone out of sheer pride and try to mislead the so called "inexperienced players" they talk down on to follow them on their quest to lead the entire community to doom, and uses them as power. This type of player looks nothing above the superficiality of any game and any server he finds because he doesn't have the skill to wield the depth of it. This is the type of player that likes hearing themselves talk to avoid hearing anything that goes against them. These players are the ones who created the spiral. It is their staleness in their behaviour which discourages players from wanting to search for new things and trying to be a factor in creating the "promised land" instead of waiting for it.


Ragnarok has its many flaws, but it's the good in the game which makes all of the people who still play the game stick around in hopes that one day a real server comes along and shows everyone how it's done. We have been given a thousand examples of what not to do by now, so use that knowledge and influence the future of this game. Tell these f*** that you're sick of their s***.



Mrew2

Quote from: Blinzer on Dec 10, 2015, 08:58 AM
Spoiler

[close]

^ From the front of your highlights. Your changes are null factors in practice, and rolling your episodes back is not going to magically make the game better. I'm sorry that with all your personnel you are still so lazy that the only solution you can come up with is remove elements from the game.


In this message I am addressing everyone in this topic who has replied.


The spiral of death that has fallen upon ragnarok is a complete circle, hence community(players and servers). The reality is that every player is looking for something different, but falls back to the same type of server because they are scared that what is different may ruin what they know is already good. Server makers are aware of this and present a small change to appeal to players and make them think that their server may be "the one".

A small change on paper seems like a big change for a player who has always and only played on the same thing, which is what makes people willing to try something that is only slightly different. It's close enough for them to be able to relate to what they're used to seeing, and allows them to make the comparison with their ideal to what is presented to them. Because server owners are afraid of making changes players will not like(and want to make money with the least work possible), these changes always end up being a non-factor but are made to appear as if they make significant revolutionary changes to the game. In the end, the community ends up listing them all under the same category of trash by the time they close(typically within a year).

Then you get people like Bue roaming the streets. People who think they know it all, claim that the game is "stale" and yet promote the pinnacle of staleness. They are wannabes of the legends that once existed in this game that they could never become, and destroy everything good that tries to bloom. They talk down on everyone out of sheer pride and try to mislead the so called "inexperienced players" they talk down on to follow them on their quest to lead the entire community to doom, and uses them as power. This type of player looks nothing above the superficiality of any game and any server he finds because he doesn't have the skill to wield the depth of it. This is the type of player that likes hearing themselves talk to avoid hearing anything that goes against them. These players are the ones who created the spiral. It is their staleness in their behaviour which discourages players from wanting to search for new things and trying to be a factor in creating the "promised land" instead of waiting for it.


Ragnarok has its many flaws, but it's the good in the game which makes all of the people who still play the game stick around in hopes that one day a real server comes along and shows everyone how it's done. We have been given a thousand examples of what not to do by now, so use that knowledge and influence the future of this game. Tell these f*** that you're sick of their s***.
Your proclamation on Bue is mainly just overemphasizing his importance. He's just a measly troll replying in this topic with the bare minimum in an attempt to piss someone off. You took the bait.

As to what you said, as every player wants to play something different, every server owner wants to make something different. I agree, now a days, server owners have no idea what work is. In reality, despite how fast people blow through the content, RO is huge. You understand the sheer vast of it when you try to develop your own server and not just pass on the same old s***, but actually try to change core parts of it. Just fixing small things, like skill descriptions, is taking me weeks. I'm two weeks in and I am just about half way through trans with AT LEAST 8 hours a day working on changing them to better reflect what the skill should do and, of the total file size, the scroll bar is about a little above half way down.

I know what it's like to try to develop a server and actually remove those flaws that everybody has just gotten use to. I strived to make a server that I would love to play on, one that would never end but in reality, I know, because of my choices, choices you yourself talk about with the "Because server owners are afraid of making changes players will not like", my server would be unpopular. Despite the at least 8 hours of work I've put in for months because nobody really wants different. That want the game slopped together with a crew that can handle the mess and things fall in line just well enough to get things going for a while. It's saddening. I decided to just leave my server in constant beta, just hosting off my computer, because I know I'll never open it. I'll always find reasons not to and in the end, as I already stated, it will be unpopular. Why go negative when I am already playing by myself? So I can play by myself but on a public domain? f*** that.

Blinzer

#41
Quote from: Mrew2 on Dec 10, 2015, 09:13 AM
Your proclamation on Bue is mainly just overemphasizing his importance. He's just a measly troll replying in this topic with the bare minimum in an attempt to piss someone off. You took the bait.

As to what you said, as every player wants to play something different, every server owner wants to make something different. I agree, now a days, server owners have no idea what work is. In reality, despite how fast people blow through the content, RO is huge. You understand the sheer vast of it when you try to develop your own server and not just pass on the same old s***, but actually try to change core parts of it. Just fixing small things, like skill descriptions, is taking me weeks. I'm two weeks in and I am just about half way through trans with AT LEAST 8 hours a day working on changing them to better reflect what the skill should do and, of the total file size, the scroll bar is about a little above half way down.

I know what it's like to try to develop a server and actually remove those flaws that everybody has just gotten use to. I strived to make a server that I would love to play on, one that would never end but in reality, I know, because of my choices, choices you yourself talk about with the "Because server owners are afraid of making changes players will not like", my server would be unpopular. Despite the at least 8 hours of work I've put in for months because nobody really wants different. That want the game slopped together with a crew that can handle the mess and things fall in line just well enough to get things going for a while. It's saddening. I decided to just leave my server in constant beta, just hosting off my computer, because I know I'll never open it. I'll always find reasons not to and in the end, as I already stated, it will be unpopular. Why go negative when I am already playing by myself? So I can play by myself but on a public domain? f*** that.

I used him as an example to address a problem. It's not him in particular which is important, but the collective amount of people with his behaviour.

You would be surprised how many people do want something different, but have mixed feelings about it. Even they do not know exactly how they want the game to change, but they know that they want it to change to at least fix the flaws that have been dragging on for 6+ years. This leads to a problem when they see actual changes happen because they don't know if it is going to ruin what they know shouldn't be changed and already holds strong in the game. At that point you have to evaluate what is important in ragnarok and what is not, and it becomes a complicated discussion about the game. This is not the place for that discussion, and I feel compelled to open another topic to address this.



Zinnia

#42
Quote from: Mrew2 on Dec 09, 2015, 11:29 PM
Private servers killed private servers. Increased rates spoil their players, players developing standards that can't match reality (WoE, Server catering to what they want) and inexperienced staffs just rehashing the same stuff and hoping no ones notices (same bugs, minor annoyances of private servers that everyone just got used to). The server owners that actually take the time to do work on their server for more than just a month or two end up either not even opening their server, for whatever reason, or changing RO in general because they see how "flawed" it can seem and thus no one plays on those servers because they're too different from vanilla. Either way you look at it, "good" servers are only good for a month until they die. People don't strive for a journey that never ends because nobody really wants a server that never ends, hence the whole "needs to have above X rate". It's sad what RO has become.

That's where it makes it very difficult for us to balance the game. Players want something different, a new RO experience, not "flawed", yet once you suggest them something like an environment without grieving (fixed @noks, rush instances for high end mvps), they don't like it because it's too "custom".
What I want to achieve with Dawn of Midgard is difficult. I want a server that feels like vanilla, but that isn't vanilla. A server that fixes all the flaws of RO, while keeping its original feelings, and matches the requirements of players in 2016. It's complex and as I'm not genius enough, I started to gather community input at least 2 months before actual launch.

If i wanted to make a cash cow, I'd probably just make another HR and close/open it every 3 months. BGs would be active for 1 month, players would stockpile items, WoEs for 3 months, and I'd be happy. But that's not what I want. I don't create a RO server for money, like I didn't create Adelays for money, I did it for RO, because I believe this game has an undeniable potential that's been ruined for years by greedy &/or incompetent admins. And I include Warpportal and Gravity in this group.

RO is the most fast paced, rich, dynamic, complex MMORPG I know, and I work for a company that releases 3/4 MMOs a year. The major issues this game has is its client, its supplies system, zeny generation, and lack of end game content. That's something I want to change. The rates themselves don't matter much, you can make a successful 100/100/10 rates server if you simply know how to balance it and regularly create new end game content for players. Hell you could just multiply all zeny costs per 10, this would feel like its rates 1.
So yes, it's easier to balance in 1/1/1 or 3/3/1, but most players are afraid of these rates and as I wanted to appeal for WoE/HR and old ggRO communities I couldn't afford to do so. Hell when I talk to my friends with whom I been playing on HRs for years they still refuse to play a 7/7/5 server because it's "low" rates, despite everything I want to achieve.
You're forgetting a very strong and important factor in creating a new server that's competition and marketing. I could have the bestest server created with the most perfect balance, if I didn't know how to market it or if our template looked terrible, no players would play it.

Concerning what Blinzer said, I suggest you take a closer look at the changes made on the server. I know the Highlights topic is just an easy/short version to tease players, and what I want to do in terms of balancing requires months of work and multiple ingame testing+tracking, but we're on good tracks. Some persons in the dev team work from 10am to 4am everyday, our JIRA is filled with more than 430 issues in 2 months which most of them aren't even listed on the forum. So yes, it's hard to achieve, but we're not giving up.

Hope this answers a few questions.

Best,

Blinzer

Quote from: Zinnia on Dec 10, 2015, 09:33 AM
That's where it makes it very difficult for us to balance the game. Players want something different, a new RO experience, not "flawed", yet once you suggest them something like an environment without grieving (fixed @noks, rush instances for high end mvps), they don't like it because it's too "custom".
What I want to achieve with Dawn of Midgard is difficult. I want a server that feels like vanilla, but that isn't vanilla. A server that fixes all the flaws of RO, while keeping its original feelings, and matches the requirements of players in 2016. It's complex and as I'm not genius enough, I started to gather community input at least 2 months before actual launch.

Concerning what Blinzer said, I suggest you take a closer look at the changes made on the server. I know the Highlights topic is just an easy/short version to tease players, and what I want to do in terms of balancing requires months of work and multiple ingame testing+tracking, but we're on good tracks. Some persons in the dev team work from 10am to 4am everyday, our JIRA is filled with more than 430 issues in 2 months which most of them aren't even listed on the forum. So yes, it's hard to achieve, but we're not giving up.

You'll have to forgive me, because I don't accept 2 sentence responses which essentially discredit my thoughts when I displayed a vast amount of contestation worthy of discussion for you to assess. You answered no questions and are only trying to protect your image, and I am not afraid to fire a second barrel of reasons for you to protect your image if you don't treat me with respect.

Your server is vanilla, and repeating that it's not over and over again is not going to change that fact. You would have displayed it right here and now if it wasn't. You chose to leave everyone in the dark and say "look again" as if you had something to look at(when you yourself claim to not list your changes and are not willing to say them).

Until you show otherwise, you are nothing but pretty words and lies like every other server. You made it clear here that the only thing you're interested in is saving your reputation, which speaks for itself in the things you create. You're not interested in the future of ragnarok, and it does not lie within you.



Mrew2

Quote from: Zinnia on Dec 10, 2015, 09:33 AM
That's where it makes it very difficult for us to balance the game. Players want something different, a new RO experience, not "flawed", yet once you suggest them something like an environment without grieving (fixed @noks, rush instances for high end mvps), they don't like it because it's too "custom".
What I want to achieve with Dawn of Midgard is difficult. I want a server that feels like vanilla, but that isn't vanilla. A server that fixes all the flaws of RO, while keeping its original feelings, and matches the requirements of players in 2016. It's complex and as I'm not genius enough, I started to gather community input at least 2 months before actual launch.

If i wanted to make a cash cow, I'd probably just make another HR and close/open it every 3 months. BGs would be active for 1 month, players would stockpile items, WoEs for 3 months, and I'd be happy. But that's not what I want. I don't create a RO server for money, like I didn't create Adelays for money, I did it for RO, because I believe this game has an undeniable potential that's been ruined for years by greedy &/or incompetent admins. And I include Warpportal and Gravity in this group.

RO is the most fast paced, rich, dynamic, complex MMORPG I know, and I work for a company that releases 3/4 MMOs a year. The major issues this game has is its client, its supplies system, zeny generation, and lack of end game content. That's something I want to change. The rates themselves don't matter much, you can make a successful 100/100/10 rates server if you simply know how to balance it and regularly create new end game content for players. Hell you could just multiply all zeny costs per 10, this would feel like its rates 1.
So yes, it's easier to balance in 1/1/1 or 3/3/1, but most players are afraid of these rates and as I wanted to appeal for WoE/HR and old ggRO communities I couldn't afford to do so. Hell when I talk to my friends with whom I been playing on HRs for years they still refuse to play a 7/7/5 server because it's "low" rates, despite everything I want to achieve.
You're forgetting a very strong and important factor in creating a new server that's competition and marketing. I could have the bestest server created with the most perfect balance, if I didn't know how to market it or if our template looked terrible, no players would play it.

Concerning what Blinzer said, I suggest you take a closer look at the changes made on the server. I know the Highlights topic is just an easy/short version to tease players, and what I want to do in terms of balancing requires months of work and multiple ingame testing+tracking, but we're on good tracks. Some persons in the dev team work from 10am to 4am everyday, our JIRA is filled with more than 430 issues in 2 months which most of them aren't even listed on the forum. So yes, it's hard to achieve, but we're not giving up.

Hope this answers a few questions.

Best,
Your friends saying that 7x is too low is the kind of ideal that killed private servers. Everybody wants to rush to be max level to just go through the motions of end-game to reach a WoE that, if everybody else didn't rush through the content, they would find disappointing. Then because no one can challenge the people who are camping the high tier mvps, they quit. The lower tier players see, hey these top tier guys quit and they quit. And that's when the spiral of death for a server starts. It's almost always the same with every server. After the 2nd WoE, server dies.

Unfortunately, that ideal is everywhere now-a-days. People think the rates are too low to play on when I remember the most fun WoEs being the ones where I wasn't max level and top-geared. When you don't have your gear to fall back on, you get creative and try different things and that's when WoE is fun. You didn't actually address this issue. You mainly just took from two different worlds, post trans and pre trans, and took WoE from both but because the rates are 12x, it really doesn't make a difference. Your server will hit the same issue and it's longevity.

The way I changed my server, the way that will turn off people to my server, is that I am rebalancing 3rd jobs. Plenty of you have probably read it because of dat click-bait title but I strive for longevity. A game that can't be beaten in a month. Renewal has such a huge wealth of content that no one is trying to implement into pre-renewal. I tried to but then I realized, why do that if your level is still stuck at 99? A server where there are WoEs before everybody is ready so people actually get creative and have fun with it. Am I close to open, even after roughly eight months of work under my belt? Not even close. You'd be surprised how much crap has gone by without people noticing.