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Offline bleu

A New Server Model?
« on: Nov 22, 2009, 01:08 am »
From observation it seems a Server Wipe have a negative connotation attached to it. It's either the GM/Admin being incompetent (no proper back up, lousy security system) or a situation beyond repair has occurred (mass dupping, abuse of bugs, ex-GM went emo and starts dropping godly items in Prontera, etc...).

What if we can change the perception of Server Wipe into a more positive one; a new beginning, attracting new and possibily more players, re-live old memories of partying friends and leveling "old style" (No tank, no leech, just normal equal share parties), a way to repair any bugs/exploitation and inequality, a chance to erase all past mistakes (big or small) and at the same time saving face.

What if the server states upfront it will wipe every X number of years. (For illustrative purpose: X could be 3 years for a low rate server). I wonder would players buy into this model?


Why should there be a server wipe?
- On many server forums, there are frequent calls for some sort of wipe (normally to fix the economy)

- It seems that the normal Ragnarok model is unsustainable for infinite life. The older the server, the more problems it have - kinda like an old car.

- GM's are mere humans. They make mistakes. Screw up and wrong decisions are inevitable. Players don't have to suffer long term from series of bad decisions.

- It allows a perfect setting to change things to the server which otherwise could not be done.


Potential issues with server wipe?
- Donations. You don't want to be perceived as a server which wipes so players will donate more. Perhaps you could implement a credit policy, every 10 dollar donated will entitle the donor to a 3 credits. Let's hope you have proper records of the donation amount. It's intentional that full credit is not given to the donor in the new server.

-  Does server wipes really turns away players? LegacyRO for the longest time was a top ranked server. It has wipe after wipe and yet the player size remains mostly unchanged albeit a lot of complains and unhappy players. What if you can sway the opinion that a wipe might be a good thing - say wipe 3 years later, we can fully implement Ragnarok Renewal with Renewal mechanics?

- How do players react knowing that their efforts will be lost? Do they really expect to be playing Ragnarok for the next 3 years? Perhaps they end up doing so.... but do they plan on it? maybe ...maybe not. Is it so unlikely they might be playing other games or busy with real life 3 years later? Don't think it really matter if there is a scheduled server wipe.

- Wat about nearing the end of the server life? I could imagine it will be a crazy atmosphere knowing that the server will be wiping in one months time. Players might not be motivated to "level" or "farm" anything at all. Perhaps more "fun" events/ PVP/ testing (not so much for eathena, but won't it be cool to open 1000 Old Card Album on an AEGIS server just to get a clear picture of what drops? and wat don't drop from OCA? and at what rates?)

- It's not too bad. On the new server, perhaps some double experience event. Just to motivate players and help them a bit to get back on their feet.

- Comparison. This is a big issue. If you ever been on remade server of its previous self, i.e. it died or something and then a new server starts up again normally with a different crew at its helm. The new server will constantly be compared. "I want this back... that back... I don't like this. The old way is better" etc etc... not everyone on RO likes changes. Most infact can't or are slow to adapt to any changes at all.

- Will this model work for all server types? Some have suggested that low rate servers needs assurance that wipe will not happen; players needs to be rewarded for their hard work. It might work for medium/high rate servers.


Will this New Server Model work?
« Last Edit: Nov 22, 2009, 01:12 am by bleu »

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Offline Zone

Re: A New Server Model?
« Reply #1 on: Nov 22, 2009, 01:16 am »
People wouldn't wanna waste their time and money.

Offline Cerise

Re: A New Server Model?
« Reply #2 on: Nov 22, 2009, 01:26 am »
People wouldn't wanna waste their time and money.

I agree.

Offline McManus

Re: A New Server Model?
« Reply #3 on: Nov 22, 2009, 02:20 pm »
People wouldn't wanna waste their time and money.

I agree.

Fair play.

Offline Odeon

Re: A New Server Model?
« Reply #4 on: Nov 22, 2009, 05:38 pm »
People wouldn't wanna waste their time and money.
True knockin.
Got one life, make use of it?

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Offline Skotlex

Re: A New Server Model?
« Reply #5 on: Nov 23, 2009, 05:24 am »
Most servers die before reaching 3 years anyway <_<

The problem with this philosophy of wiping to give a "fresh" feeling to players, is the mere fact that you are forcing it upon them. People don't like the idea of having their characters and possessions whom they worked so hard on to simply fade away and having to restart.

People always have the choice to make a new account, recreate characters, restart if they wish. They can even do so with new players to go and remember what it was like to party. However, forcing them down this way often leaves a sour taste.

You'd only manage to get regular wipes acceptable if the server is not to be taken seriously (eg: a test server), if you ask me...

(RMS reviews)

Offline bleu

Re: A New Server Model?
« Reply #6 on: Nov 23, 2009, 09:32 pm »
Most servers die before reaching 3 years anyway <_<

I totally agree with the above statement. No server can lasts forever. The proposed new model offers a pre-agreed way to carry out an exit strategy in an orderly fashion when the times come for the betterment of all parties. Would you rather the server shut down in secret and the last day of the server is remembered in shame? One fine day you are playing on your beloved server and the next day without warning whatsoever the server shuts down leaving everyone in dismay (Example: NFRO, LegacyRO, PhaseRO, etc)? Then there may be a rogue group of GMs and loyal players scrambling to save what is left of their beloved server and remake a new server in the image of the old server (in the most disorderly manner, if I may say so)? I have lost count of how many qRO and WolfRO remade servers are out there? How many of them have failed?


People wouldn't wanna waste their time and money.

To a certain extend I do agree with this. However, is it "really a waste"? Most established servers has lived long past their glory days and have been greatly reduced to an aging server with every signs of a senior citizen - high blood pressure, diabetes, hearts problems, osteoporosis, etc... Let's talk in server terms;

- huge gap between the mega rich and poor? Are items being sold or vended?

- decreasing activities (empty PVP rooms, lack of WOE competitiveness,...)

- old players have collected every item worth collecting in the game, made dozens of new characters (max lvl), amassed billion of zeny, what else is there to do? They log on chat with a few friends. Perhaps logging on during WOE only 2 hours a week.

- great concentration of wealth in the hands of a few (2% of the population controlling 98% of the economy? players leaves... they pass on their items/zeny to a friend... over time; there will be a few mega billionaires with great economic influence)

- bug abuses/ dupes which still leaves their mark on the current server.

- decreasing real population (new players are simply not staying with a dying server)


Is it really a "waste" to end a server which PVP is constantly empty? Is it a "waste" to end a server where you can't buy anything good (either you can't afford them or simply not be vended)? Is it a "waste" to end a server which most players only logs on for 2 hours a week for WOE - the rest of the days it's an abandoned Prontera with more NPCs/Autotraders than real players? Sure, you can attempt to fix some of these problems - didn't you had three years to fix it! why isn't it fixed yet? Not to mention it's a senior citizen; there's only so much you can do.

This model offers a second chance to the server and its players to REBIRTH rather than slowly dying away disgracefully and forgotten. A new server of youth, hope, enthusiasm and one which is full of life.

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The Bleu Phoenix Model
« Last Edit: Nov 23, 2009, 09:39 pm by bleu »

Offline Sarin

Re: A New Server Model?
« Reply #7 on: Nov 26, 2009, 05:33 am »
Well....who says it has to be COMPLETE wipe? Just an idea...the problem is mainly in tons nad tons of items that old players have. Why not just wipe items? Less people would leave if there will be some connection left, perhaps leave their char, or some quite basic equip.

Offline deusro

Re: A New Server Model?
« Reply #8 on: Nov 30, 2009, 11:20 am »
People wouldn't wanna waste their time and money.

amen to that!

Offline GorthexTiger

Re: A New Server Model?
« Reply #9 on: Nov 30, 2009, 03:55 pm »
I generally think Wipes carry a negative stigma; which is usually attributed to some sort of human error or mistake. If the wipe is due to it being a successful server, where its just getting old and too many people have been powerhouses for a while, then it tends to need a bit of fresh air, but I think it should be the community who initiates it / asks for it.

One option that I have seen used in the past (that actually worked quite well) was some sort of a transference.

Say Version 1 was overwhelmed with crap. They would release a secondary server (Version 2) for instance, and basically inform that Version 1 will not be receiving support as far as updates, new features and that it will be up for X many days. (This is, of course, living in a perfect world where they would host version 1 & 2 simultaneously.)

Now this was subjective, but in different instances, they offered to transfer somethings over (some items, zeny, w/e) but either capped it at a certain amount (100k zeny), a % of their current inventory (only 150 items in storage will transfer over that are X,Y,Z requirements), or none at all.

While telling them this, inform them that Version 2.0 will be now available indefinitely, rates will be slightly increased to assist everyone leveling (but not drop rate) and that after so many days the rates would go back to their regular levels. It would be receiving new features and would be updated. (Players are attracted to shiny things, new features and updates shine like candy).

This basically gives them a choice of whether to move on or not. Wipes are not for everybody, some people like to hoard their old crap until they leave. I will tell you, I'm one of them; there are currently three servers I could return to and still kick donkey on.

While a few people may leave, I think the majority, like you said, would move on to the new server.

Keep accounts and passes the same, and just copy-pasta, cleanse, and refresh it.

Voila!
Read about the "Great Dramas" Part 1, Part 2, & Part 3


Offline Cabal

Re: A New Server Model?
« Reply #10 on: Dec 01, 2009, 10:31 pm »
People wouldn't wanna waste their time and money.
True knockin.
Got one life, make use of it?
what he said :)

Offline Skyx

Re: A New Server Model?
« Reply #11 on: Dec 04, 2009, 04:18 pm »
Instead of a full-out wipe. Why not just wipe accounts that only have novices on it(and are inactive), and those that have not been logged into for over a year.

As for an item wipe, instead of wiping all of X item, just reduce how many a player can have. Like, let's say a player has 15 of X item. Reduce it to the amount of character they have on their account, or a more reasonable amount. That way, for players who don't have alot of X item, still get to keep that item, and people who have too many - throwing economy and whatever else off balance, won't have as many anymore, but will still own a certain amount. If they want more, then can hunt for it again.

You could also reduce the amount of zeny each account has so then people would have to re-make their zeny again, by hunting or whatever zeny making schemes are on your server.

This way, players don't have to start from scratch, but they don't have abundance of items anymore and will have to work to get that abundance again. And, even though it is a discouragement, they might not quit over it since they still have their items/zeny, just less of it.