RMS Home | Guide Writing | Test Server | New Servers | Latest Reviews

Author Topic: A (true) old-times server is viable?  (Read 3609 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline alexbr

A (true) old-times server is viable?
« on: Jan 26, 2021, 12:14 pm »
Well, it's been 15 years since my first attempt at making a RO server.

Since then i've become a professional programmer and, for the nostalgia, and my improved programming skills I'm working on a RO server that's meant to be the closest as possible from a classic/old-times server. (Episode 8 - Niflheim, no rebirth, old-mechanics).

When I say "classic/old-times", I don't mean those pity-of-a-excuse servers that just remove some maps, NPCs and jobs and call themselves "the original feel of Ragnarok".

I mean bring back the old-mechanics, old-skills, when, for example Endure was only time-based (instead of the 7 hit limit), Magnum Break was a target AoE skill, instead of self-cast, Arrow-Shower required a target too, ankle snare only affected enemies on WoE and PvM, Cloaking only worked near walls. Of course, some concessions have to be made, back then Double Strafe and Arrow Shower didn't consume arrows, I don't agree with that, even if it is official behavior. But 95% of the old mechanics would be implemented.

Apparently, at that time some guilds were heavily nerfed (Alde Guild) if I remember correctly, that would be rolled back too.

I really don't expect much people here remember that time (in kRO those mechanics were dropped in 2004 and here in Brazil 2006, when Rebirth episode came in).

But I ask you, is it worth the effort? There are any other servers around that has that same level of fidelity to the old-mechanics? I'm doing it anyways for the nostalgia, and maybe I release source code someday. The server would be a Brazilian server.

Thanks!

Advertisement

Offline feritarei

Re: A (true) old-times server is viable?
« Reply #1 on: Jan 26, 2021, 01:43 pm »
Well, it's been 15 years since my first attempt at making a RO server.

Since then i've become a professional programmer and, for the nostalgia, and my improved programming skills I'm working on a RO server that's meant to be the closest as possible from a classic/old-times server. (Episode 8 - Niflheim, no rebirth, old-mechanics).

When I say "classic/old-times", I don't mean those pity-of-a-excuse servers that just remove some maps, NPCs and jobs and call themselves "the original feel of Ragnarok".

I mean bring back the old-mechanics, old-skills, when, for example Endure was only time-based (instead of the 7 hit limit), Magnum Break was a target AoE skill, instead of self-cast, Arrow-Shower required a target too, ankle snare only affected enemies on WoE and PvM, Cloaking only worked near walls. Of course, some concessions have to be made, back then Double Strafe and Arrow Shower didn't consume arrows, I don't agree with that, even if it is official behavior. But 95% of the old mechanics would be implemented.

Apparently, at that time some guilds were heavily nerfed (Alde Guild) if I remember correctly, that would be rolled back too.

I really don't expect much people here remember that time (in kRO those mechanics were dropped in 2004 and here in Brazil 2006, when Rebirth episode came in).

But I ask you, is it worth the effort? There are any other servers around that has that same level of fidelity to the old-mechanics? I'm doing it anyways for the nostalgia, and maybe I release source code someday. The server would be a Brazilian server.

Thanks!

"Nostalgia is truly one of the great human weaknesses...second only to the neck."

The problem I see is that the game started do be really, really popular around the world after the Rebirth episode. So, most of the nostalgia is there. An old times server would be only for a niche people, which is a problem because the economy doesn't develop and people leave.

If we observe the server lists, we can see that there aren't plenty of Old Times servers, but there's a lot of pre-renewal servers. The Renewal episode, in my opinion, splited the game forever.

My advice would be that if you really like the Old Times mechanics, you search for one that already exists. I never made a RO server, but I know that it's a lot of work! Not only programming reletable.
But if you are really inclined to put all the effort and time, do it.

Currently I'm playing on a server called OriginsRO. It's been around since 2013 and just by the end of 2019 they released the Rebirth Episode.
It's a very nice server with a lot of effort into. It already moved foward, but I suggest you to check out!
Very stable, nice economy and the people there are very polite(I'm brazilian too, so you know what I'm talking about).

https://originsro.org/

Offline Neffletics

Re: A (true) old-times server is viable?
« Reply #2 on: Jan 26, 2021, 03:18 pm »
Running a server is 80% customer service and 20% programming. The point is, being a good programmer doesn't make you a good server owner. Even if you have a perfect idea and perfect implementation, community management is what makes a server 'viable.'

The concept is great. I'd try it if it finally reaches production. The question is, can you sustain it? Players will get bored once their curiosity and nostalgic cravings ran out.
www.solaceragnarok.com | The only server worth playing in SEA | Started in December 2019
Pre-Renewal | No Dual Logging | 2,000+ Players Daily | Best Economy | Best WoE

Offline Eiponpon

Re: A (true) old-times server is viable?
« Reply #3 on: Jan 26, 2021, 04:42 pm »
a 'true' old-times server definitely cant be running on herc. no matter how much you tweak them they dont handle stuff like cast delay right

Offline neethree

Re: A (true) old-times server is viable?
« Reply #4 on: Jan 26, 2021, 05:55 pm »
I mean bring back the old-mechanics, old-skills, when, for example Endure was only time-based (instead of the 7 hit limit), Magnum Break was a target AoE skill, instead of self-cast, Arrow-Shower required a target too, ankle snare only affected enemies on WoE and PvM, Cloaking only worked near walls. Of course, some concessions have to be made, back then Double Strafe and Arrow Shower didn't consume arrows, I don't agree with that, even if it is official behavior. But 95% of the old mechanics would be implemented.
RetRO has most/all of those currently, and I must say I'm loving it. It feels like a whole different game to discover. But with time I suppose these will be changed as episodes come, it's nice to experience it while I can though.
Current Server(s):
None ;-;

Offline Wosi2

Re: A (true) old-times server is viable?
« Reply #5 on: Jan 27, 2021, 01:04 pm »
As tenuguu already said check out https://retro-online.eu/?module=main
Only Server I know with true Episode 5. Mob stats/spawn, skills, quests. Love playing there :)

Offline alexbr

Re: A (true) old-times server is viable?
« Reply #6 on: Jan 27, 2021, 01:11 pm »
@all

Thanks for your thoughts and input here.

I'm not versed in "community management", so it's something that I have to figure out (events, maybe?), for now I'm worried about the technical part. There's a lot work to do.

I really think there's public for classic servers, one thing that might prevent people from opening these kind of servers is the technical difficulties.
To make all these mechanical changes one must be well versed in C/C++ and do a lot of research. The most diffcult part for me is the research, it's not easy to find the exact mechanics, spawns, drops, rates that were present in 2004, but I've managed to gather some resources, old eAthena and jAthena emulators (2003/2004), changelogs (if anyone reading this have some more resources on pre-rebirth mechanics and spawns, drops, etc. and is kind enough to share, I'll be very pleased, it's always good to cross-check references).

For me, the important part is quality and effort.

I gave a quick look at this RetRO server (https://ratemyserver.net/index.php?page=detailedlistserver&serid=21441&itv=6&url_sname=retRO%20Online). Looks promising. I just feel that there's something missing, (the list of episodic differences in skills is, at least, "humble"). And the design (logo, website) is terrible hehehehe. Saw some people gaving bad reviews too because of bugs and inaccurate mechanics (don't know if it proceeds, though), but I think it's evolving.

I'm not using Herc, I use a BR version of eAthena, stable, pre-renewal.

Offline Wosi2

Re: A (true) old-times server is viable?
« Reply #7 on: Jan 27, 2021, 01:22 pm »
They have a list of skill changes on their website:
https://retro-online.eu/?module=pages&action=content&path=episode

And the reviews are not objective in my opinion. Also the Accountsused there are all new and just created for these Reviews. Check it out and See for yourself :)

They have some Bugs, but not many and they fix them quite fast imo

Offline dahman

Re: A (true) old-times server is viable?
« Reply #8 on: Jan 27, 2021, 02:57 pm »
They have a list of skill changes on their website:
https://retro-online.eu/?module=pages&action=content&path=episode

And the reviews are not objective in my opinion. Also the Accountsused there are all new and just created for these Reviews. Check it out and See for yourself :)

They have some Bugs, but not many and they fix them quite fast imo

i can +1 that.



sometimes u gotta be sceptic about negative reviews,
atleast those look not very believable.

should give this server a try, its very nice to play there :)


Offline neethree

Re: A (true) old-times server is viable?
« Reply #9 on: Jan 28, 2021, 09:34 am »
And the design (logo, website) is terrible hehehehe.
To each their own on this one - I actually really liked to see that, more specifically that they had made their own instead of stealing fanart to use in their branding.  Might not be the prettiest but gets a big thumbs up for me for that - really grinds my gears to see servers grab images off google and slap their logo over it. 

Most of the negative reviews have been deleted, so I assume it was one guy on multiple accounts. There were some teething bugs but the GMs responded really urgently, it's been great to see. They acknowledge inaccuracies and fix them - can't ask for much more than that. No one's perfect first try.

But back to making your own server - curious to why you'd use eA in this day and age - I have nothing but awful memories of eA, and herc hits the mark a lot more. Is it just for old scripts or is it something specific about the emulation? While you can't plug and play scripts they're simple enough to "translate", and you'd probably get a smoother end product.
Current Server(s):
None ;-;

Offline alexbr

Re: A (true) old-times server is viable?
« Reply #10 on: Feb 01, 2021, 09:10 pm »
@Tenuguu

The functionality I need is stable on the eA revision i'm using, besides I poke around the rAthena repository (GitHub) and look for bug fixes that may affect/interest me and cherry-pick them to my eA implementation.

Bowling Bash is one example (that damn gutterline bug, that is considered a feature). Another one is Cloaking, but I had to rewrite it completelly on my own, since I had to separate the wall checking feature from the speed bonus feature (it wasn't introduced until ep. 9). But since it's pre-renewal (the last episode, 10.3), there's not MUCH work to do.

And like that i'm conducting things, one step at a time, no rush. It's like a said, a hobby. At the end i'm gonna get a smooth end product too. Patience is the key.

P.S.: Backport renewal Herc/rAthena completely to 2004 mechanics and translate the scripts would be a massive undertaking.

Offline distilled1

Re: A (true) old-times server is viable?
« Reply #11 on: Feb 02, 2021, 01:32 am »
You mean to bring back 95% of the old mechanics, but you're using inaccurate emulators?
That is a massive undertaking, indeed, and even when you think you've fixed everything, you very likely still won't have.
Your players will find things here and there, eventually filling pages upon pages of bug reports, or claims of wrong mechanics.

I know you're not in a rush, but why not save yourself a lot of effort and use that leaked aegis code I've heard about. That would bring back 100% of the old mechanics right then and there.
Over and done with.
Easy peasy, lemon squeezy. Gnome sayin'?
DOWN WITH MULTI-CLIENTING!

Offline Playtester

Re: A (true) old-times server is viable?
« Reply #12 on: Feb 03, 2021, 11:48 am »
RetRO definitely comes very close to the server you are thinking off. They really put a lot of effort into being as accurate as possible.

Ragnarok Travels also claims to be very close to official, but I can't really confirm this as registration requires a mobile phone and there's no info on the website that I could verify to be accurate.

There's also KokoRO which is mechanically even closer to official. But that's not classic but pre-renewal.


I don't know how far this "Brasilian" version of eAthena was developed, but eAthena itself is quite outdated, rAthena has a thousand more fixes that vanilla eAthena is lacking.

Offline distilled1

Re: A (true) old-times server is viable?
« Reply #13 on: Feb 04, 2021, 02:11 pm »
I have a mobile phone and can confirm that Ragnarok Travels is, mechanically, extremely close to official mechanics because they use aegis code to run the server (though they'd never admit it due to legal reasons obviously), with minor improvements made here and there such as fixing battle mode's bugginess with the enter key.
Very good and continually growing community there.
DOWN WITH MULTI-CLIENTING!