Season Based Server? (WoE guilds take note)

Started by Satos, Dec 05, 2018, 12:25 AM

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Poke holes in this.  Support thinking through some processes.  Criticize however you see fit.
I don't create or run any servers.  So this is free brainstorming.  /no1

I've been spending some time on another game that I enjoy when I get bored with Ragnarok. (Read as, "frustrated that the server I've been playing on puttered out after 2 months because everyone is bored.")
And I'm wondering if it's primary concept would translate well to Ragnarok.

So, the main draw to said game, is that it offers Seasons/Leagues/Campaigns (just going to refer to the as Seasons from here on out).  You go into the game knowing that at the end of a set period of time, your character/items/storage/the whole economy is going to be wiped clean; and started over all over again.

Technically, I guess the character and storage get swapped into a different game mode...but 90% of the player base pretty much only plays the Seasons and are perpetually cool with the idea of their progress getting reset every few months.

Ragnarok has forever had longevity issues.  Most servers promise to never close or wipe your data...only to close or wipe your data.
Would it be acceptable for a server to promise to wipe your data every 2-3 months?

I'm not trying to copy another game into Ragnarok, or wildly change Ragnarok's gamepley mechanics.
I'm just brainstorming to see if instead of trying to promise years of gameplay, if it would be suitable to guarantee regular resets.

For those unfamiliar with Seasons in games (a few different types of games utilize this), the way they typically work is that the server will announce in advance that Season "x" will begin on mm/dd/yyyy and end on mm/dd/yyyy (or dd/mm/yyyy for all of you in the rest of the world /ok).

New characters created within that time frame may participate in the season, and as previously stated, at the end of the pre-determined time frame, those characters, and all of their items/currency either get wiped completely, or moved into non-season/"standard" gameplay to still be available for regular play. (That way players that found some really rare items can still play the game with them; and don't feel like they've lost their once in a lifetime find.)
Seasons will have different achievements/challenges/quests for players to complete.  And once the season ends, players will get points based on how many of the achievements/challenges/quests they were able to complete during that season.
Depending on the game, these rewarded points are (usually) used for cosmetic-only items, can replace currency for micro-transactions, or are usable in a special shop to buy items for use in the next season.

This is where a server's owner/team of administrators would need to decide what they are going to offer as the pointable rewards, to convince players that this system is worth the time.
3 ideas off the top of my head could be:
1) Season exclusive cosmetic headgears/equips for players to spend their points on.
2) A points shop offering cool little things like the infinite fly wing/gym passes/or some type of shadow gear that gives very small increases to damage/defense/resistance/etc.
3) A points shop offering customized, quality of life, skills.  Like putting Lv 10 Discount/Overcharge on your next season's character so you don't have to create a merchant character on the side.  Or something more customized, like offering a +10% success rate on brewing/smithing creation skills.

Go wild with this.  This will be what will help entice players to play on your server.
The idea is that these rewards would be usable only for the next season, and would then be transitioned to "standard" mode, or wiped completely.

Typically, characters participating in a season cannot swap items with standard characters, and don't have access to their storage from outside of that current season.
So if a player finds some really cool stuff, he cannot stash it in storage hoping to use it again at the beginning of the next season.  So some coding would be required to have 2 different storage systems for each account.
Likewise, if a season player is partying with a standard character, you would need to somehow code the drops to be separate for each character.  That way you could not use a geared out "standard" mode character to hunt gear for a fresh season character.

The bulk of this brainstorm is to determine if something like this would be accepted by RO's players, and how best a server could implement a season based system.

On the technical side...
1) I've seen enough variety in Ragnarok servers to know that it is possible to run Pre-Renewal and Renewal on the same system, and to freely interchange between the two, while keeping drops separate.
I don't know if this means that it would be possible to designate some characters as "season" characters, and other as "standard" RO characters, and still allow them to see and play/interact with each other.  But it makes me hopeful that it wouldn't be a long stretch of the imagination to make that possible.

I don't know if it could be as simple as having Lv 1/1 Novices register for some date based quest...thus designating them as a "season" character.

2) There have been custom quests, achievement systems, and all manner of custom content for years.  So having some special tasks to award season points should be totally doable.

Those two things should be enough to at least lend credence that the idea *could* be implemented.
I'll leave the actually development of the programming to those that have the know how to do it. (Because I no absolutely nothing about coding and programing.)

I guess the rest of the post should just be to write out a proposal, and let it get picked at.
(Again, I am not actually going to be implementing ANY of this ANYWHERE.  I'm just a player that is tired of "starting over" on new servers every few months.) (Is it ironic that I'm proposing that a server be based around starting over every few months?)

So here are some perks I could see as potential pros:

Economy:  Most servers experience issues sustaining a decent economy after awhile.  Having the entire season's wealth/items shift into "standard" RO afterward, keeps the economy clean and refreshed with each new season.  Instead of altering prices, or trying to install zeny-sinks...this would be a regular clean up of the server's economy.

Leveling:  Most of RO's players have become very efficient at leveling.  So much so that some servers have started offering multiple rebirths to keep players interested in playing.  And honestly...with how frequently servers open and close, most of us are leveling multiple times a year anyway.  Multiple back-to-back seasons would at least allow us to keep our friends, guilds, and reputations on one server; instead of having to coordinate a guild move or create "seeking lost friends" threads with each new server that opens/closes.

New players:  Long established servers for some reason (probably the inflated economies, if I were to honestly guess) are a deterant to new players.  Many of the threads you see are people searching for either the new upcoming hyped server, or some stable server that is around 6 months old.  Having seasons would keep a server perpetually new player friendly.  "Joined late in the current season?  Complete some achievements/challenges and get some points to spend on your new character as soon as the new season starts.  Congratulations, you're on equal footing with everyone else."

WoE/Rankings:  (Maybe not a perk...but possibly) Have WoE rankings.  The most winning guild at the end of each season gets an entry to a once a year RWC style tournament.  Could be VERY interesting if you had several large competitive guilds.  Or could be very boring if only one guild dominates WoE every season.  WoE remains fresh and offers a chance for hope next season.  "Learn your opponets' style, hit them differently next season, and earn your place in the tournament.  Everybody starts new again next season.  Find an MVP card?  Lucky you!  Make it work to your advantage this season."

Testing new things:  Several times, seasons can have a theme, accompanying an obvious change.  "Want to try a new 'balance' patch?  Good news!  If it sucks, you're resetting everything in a month or two anyway."

Here are some potential cons I can initially see:

Programming:  I no nothing about coding.  This might be an impossible task.

Loss of "security" for the player:  Some people do want that long lasting guarentee that the progress they've put into thier character won't be lost.  The idea of the majority of the server play being reset every 2-3 months might not appeal to them.  Even if they do get to keep their character/items in "standard" mode after the season ends, they might not feel like they have anyone to play with if most of the population is moving on into the new season.

WoE/Rankings:  Some guilds might not be ok with the idea of everyone having a chance to catch up with them every 2-3 months.  Or with the hassle of having to re-acquire cards and equipment that they just spent a month or two hunting.  If you can find 4-8 large guilds that are ok with the season system, you are going to have a well populated server.  If you can only find 1 or 2 guilds...your server will most likely suffer the same problems that most every other RO server suffers.

Testing new things:  RO players have grown acustomed to leaving if a server has implemented something they don't like.  It might take awhile to get them used to the idea that generally bad changes can be temporary; with obvious fix/update times between seasons.  "Holy crap!  We should not have given the Super Novices 'Guillotine Fist'.  Maybe we should revert that back to normal."

So there's my proposal.  I don't know if it is already being implemented on a Super High Rate server somewhere.  I usually only play around on the low and mid rates.
I think this *could* solve some of the problems with endgame content and guild competition...if you can convince some of the major guilds to all congregate to your server.

I'm a huge fan of full scale WoE, and RWC, and God Item creation...and that's all missing from RO today.
I'm not sure *if* it can come back like it was, fully.  But I think a rotational, season based server could breath some life back into RO.
It gives WoE guilds something to continually play toward, and it keeps the server free from some of long term economic problems.
I think this would be better implemented on a mid rate 50x-100x range server.  That would let people level quick enough to not feel the grind, and will allow them time to hunt their gear with enough time to still use it for the bulk of the season.
Seasons should vary in time.  I'd say 2-3 months would be a good rotation.  If you are trying a RWC tournament with WoE qualifers, that would give you 4-6 slots for teams to fill.  If a guild wins more than one season's WoE ranking, that's a good way for them to limit their competition for the tournament.
If you are going to try some signifigant change, or offer some potentially game breaking reward for some reason, a shorter season might be necessary.  If it works out, then just keep it implemented/offer it again as a reward for the next regular length season.

There it is guys.  Start poking holes, I guess.  /hmm  Let's see how this stands up.
Thanks for reading.  /...


yawn emoticon

what is this a million lines post long with nothing of substance in it



Thanks for the feedback.
My post is long and unsightly.

Your assessment of Ragnarok typically has and continues to be accurate (albeit in stronger phrasing).
I think several people have been interested in your project.

I saw some posts about it some time ago. But kind of lost track of it.

I appreciate your genuine appreciation for Ragnarok.
No one spends that much time on something they hate.
I hope your server is the magic fix.


The players that complain about servers dying after 3 months are players that would never join a server knowing it will wipe all accounts after 3 months guaranteed.

So instead of creating a server that survives for 3 months, your idea just creates a server that is dead from the start.


Quote from: Satos on Dec 05, 2018, 08:40 AM
Thanks for the feedback.
My post is long and unsightly.

Your assessment of Ragnarok typically has and continues to be accurate (albeit in stronger phrasing).
I think several people have been interested in your project.

I saw some posts about it some time ago. But kind of lost track of it.

I appreciate your genuine appreciation for Ragnarok.
No one spends that much time on something they hate.
I hope your server is the magic fix.

don't spoil me like that babe, now you're just making me feel bad

i actually disagree with playtester, i think that competitive people would want to get in on a new/reset server because they don't want to be behind in the grind, although it's up for debate whether those players would actually see it like that(even though that's how it plays out in practice) and have that kind of self-awareness. people who romanticize about infinitely lasting servers generally only do so because they are led to that with false promise, and i don't buy a single second of them saying "we knew the server wouldn't last" or other wasted breath. it is human nature to want to build towards a goal and have that extend and be meaningful forever, when people talk like that they're lying to themselves and they're lying to you.

i do not agree in both theory and my own practice that we should just skip past all of the problems ragnarok has. just calling the cutting point at x amount of months before economy/age/whatever else ruins the flow is the coward's way out, and is akin to solving a problem just by avoiding it forever(which cannot a true solution by nature). though, if there were enough of an incentive to do so(for example if each guild pitched money or someone was rich enough to sponsor it), i can easily see a competitive server with prizes for the top guilds working out. (i only say this because we're on topic) i myself was planning on having a 3 week version of this as a pre-launch event to get people familiar with the new game and i was gonna put some of my btc earnings up as prizes for being the first to accomplish certain tasks/winning the final WoE/etc.

at the end of the day i feel dumb sitting here just talking and explaining because i'm the type that instead of talking i go and do whatever i think the solution is. and there comes a point where you realize that even if you do, what you make is only one of the infinite ways something can exist in a way that's good; but there's literally nothing you can do about that. you have to pick a plan, stick to it, and most importantly work your a** off to get it right. any basic idea can be built into something great if you put attention and care into detail.


actually, it's just the system diablo uses.

May be a bad idea for RO, altough it may work if you develop a Realm vs Realm Server with 2 or 3 sides to battle each other


Quote from: Playtester on Dec 05, 2018, 09:24 AM
The players that complain about servers dying after 3 months are players that would never join a server knowing it will wipe all accounts after 3 months guaranteed.

So instead of creating a server that survives for 3 months, your idea just creates a server that is dead from the start.

Probably yes, almost all efforts in brainstorm go towards existing players and their needs, not towards a potential group. That is a basic choice and it has it consequences.
Now, for instance Rathena, do they develop anything to keep pre-renewal alive. No, not at all. They just ignore it and keep going on changing it more and more with their updates and defend it as being logic development. So, they are really locked in their Ivory Tower and lost all connection.

That is were all those efforts come from and right or wrong ideas they want something better as it is now and they only have mediocre developers for emulators like you, sorry to say but you should learn from this.


..there's nothing left to develop for pre-renewal u apes. it's been gone for 10 years.


Emperium Online! I have taken notice of your server.
Congrats on your inception! And thank you for your boldness.

I do want to clarify, I have no affiliation with Emperium Online.
I do not know anything about the server other than what is listed on its website.
I couldn't even tell you who owns or operates it.

This is not an endorsement for your server, or for how you manage it.
But thank you for taking a risk with your server.

I just happened to see your RMS listing during my lunch break.
I will be checking you out.

I hope you're fun to play.