Quite a few new sprites

[Kyomi]

Did you at least get permission from GaiaOnline to use those sprites?

[Makiness]

No Miss, I tried and failed horribly D: Seems I'm one of the lucky few that cannot use the Ticketing system lmao.  Just registered to actually see what they would say, not that it mattered in the end much.

Terms of Service

2. Any use of Gaia Online other than for private, non-commercial use is strictly prohibited.

^Why it didn't matter much.  What we assumed was we are allowed to use them because of said clause.

Anyhow, I believe the law regarding commercial art is that if an art piece is altered 60% (versus the original) then it becomes its own unique art piece.  On average (including non-gaia one) there are about 7~10 angles per sprite, including the original sprite which we made mostly ourselves based off the original view.  If we say originally the Gaia sprite is 100% owned by Gaia and we edit about 50%~ of it that means we already passed the threshold of 60%.  Now to go further and say we added 7 more angles (totalling

100/8 = 12.5%
12.5/2 = 6.25%
OR
1/8 * 0.5 = 1/16
100/16 = 6.25%

6.25% is what Gaia now owns of this sprite.
12.5% is what Gaia owns if we used their original angle in its entirety.

After doing all this, I don't know what I'm doing anymore or why I even decided to post that formula LOL.  At 5:40 AM I had a hard enough time figuring out how I got the 6.25% answer so please excuse whatever may be wrong (should be correct)!  But I do believe this relieves me of anything else related to them =P  If not the brain power I used better! xD  Now it's too fried to even consider finishing this .act file.

[Kaleano]

Hello, I am Maki and am a bit new to these forums.  Just wanted to show off a few previews of some of the new sprites we have been designing and working on for our server, MakaiRO =)!

I like the sprites but in fact YOU did not design them.  Which led some of us, who have never even played Gaia online, to think that you actually designed these sprites.  How are people supposed to just 'know' that you ripped them from the other game?

Cute sprites, but you need to at least give credit to Gaia where credit is due.

[Kyomi]

Using them for an RO server, isn't reallly considered "private use" IMO. I would assume that's more along the lines of public, lol.

[Makiness]

@Kyomi:
From what I found out after reading through various (and very vague) policies and some forum topics on various forums (which were much more helpful then Gaia mind you ), private use still seems to apply to pretty much... anything?  Signatures, banners, web designs & websites, or any other form of art medium it seems.  Almost all of the websites I visited that had something directly to do with Gaia Online  (or other games) had a copyright clause in their ToS (or on their webpage) stating that the websites-in-question do not own the sprites but nothing more informative then that.  For example as Khaine pointed out about tektek.org:

II. COPYRIGHT
All GaiaOnline images and content are © Copyright Gaia Interactive, Inc. Permission to use any images owned by Gaia Interactive must follow their Terms of Service. tektek.org does not grant permission or claim ownership of these images or content.

Read through their entire ToS once again and searched through their help library (since I still cannot seem to be able to submit a ticket, nor do I care anymore to submit one) and nothing much else regarding their sprite usage policy.  Even the quote I stated indirectly refers to the sprites in question; it's more about the website itself but via loopholes it can be used indirectly against, although nothing mentions sprite or art specifically.  ALTHOUGH, it seems people do charge money on & off Gaia to modify their sprites (as in characters) with new or modified items to use as signatures or avatars for other uses (from what I have seen on outdated websites and forums at least and from what I have heard used to happen when my friend used to play).

Or perhaps I haven't found anything because I'm just not interested or too tired to look through more of their terms =P  If you'd like to join me on this crusade Kyomi let's hop to it  I'll just pack some pocky sticks and gatorade xD

Anyhow, it seems both of you totally ignored my masterpiece of a rant known as "commercial art law" >o!  Maybe next time I should highlight/bold the fact it became its own unique art piece.  I was going to write more but I now have forgotten what I wanted to write because I learned of the cool new marquee ability *-*.

@Kaleano
My bad, I didn't realize I had any need to credit Gaia at all (as explained in my Masterpiece of a Rant known as "Commercial Art Law" Vol. 1) but I do see where you're coming from, although I still don't see why you seem so annoyed over it.  On our defense, Gaia Online only has 1 view we created AND designed every other angle through our imagination (we're still assuming 8 angles mind you); but as I said I somewhat do see where you are coming from (although I still don't get the annoyed part).  

Yes the original sprite is on Gaia Online and we resprited THAT original angle, very true on your end; but PLEASE do not dare say we did not design the sprite.  The last 7 angles magically appeared out of thin air?  How are we to know that the back of that sprite is even remotely close to what I have shown in my screenshot? (http://img816.imageshack.us/img816/6650/screenmakai018.jpg)  For all any of us know, it could have a giant teddy bear backpack attached to it.  Discrediting the work as merely "ripped" is very wrong in my eyes considering we made those ourselves; not going to bother continuing on that because that statement is the only thing that has annoyed me so far.  A little additional info:  As the links in tektek.org show, That one angle you see is ALL there is, the "game" is not like Ragnarok Online where they use sprite sheets to create various angles; they only need one.

I'll be sure to edit that line into this:

Hello, I am Maki and am a bit new to these forums.  Just wanted to show off a few previews of some of the new sprites we have been spriting and working on for our server, MakaiRO =)!

It just sounded repetitive so I used the word "designing" not meaning to imply anything from that.  In my defense, I've never played, seen, or looked at Gaia Online until you all pointed it out and I had to learn everything about their legalities and terms =P  Crash course ftw XD!


PS: Very Sorry if some of this comes off as offensive, I really hope not (I try to joke around a bit =P).  Khaine ('s aggressively-provoking-statement-which-was-needed-cause-I-mistakenly-didn't-deem-it-important) seems to have started a negative tone towards this thread and the vibes keep reiterating themselves in the posts that follow D:
PSS: Oh dear god this looks like a wall post preview.  Shall I continue to post more previews or shall we continue to have this discussion? =P  In the verrrrrrrrrrrry end, it was my mistake, apologies (though they (among others) are credited on our forums).

<(n_n <)   Super Trooper Maki Power   (-O  *_*)----O  

[Warock]

He is the same person who made sprite
So he is the right full owner of it
He can sell or show any of his works because ,He is the one who created
Even though the gia or other websites has its own copyright agreement all pre owning rights vest with creator
Untill unless the creator signs a written document no sell right agreement then only it would work out
But virtual items are not binded in copyrights

So Makiness go ahead with your works

[Makiness]

Correction: We are not the same people =P  We are not the original creators of the original first angle, just the rest of the angles.  I'll say it simply:
1) We found items on other games we liked and wanted to create
2) We created the .psds & .bmps for them
3) We then created the .sprs and .acts for them
4) We had Lunch
5) We had Dinner

Fin.  Let's not continue this too much so we can get back to the original topic at hand =P  Maybe I'm seeing things, but it seems Gaia goes against US Commercial Art Law |: No idea how they get away with having thousands of copyright violations themselves though LOL.


Tuscan Sam


Icarus Wings


Flight of Cakes

^ That Shinigami class sprite was also made (100%) by our spriter. YES, CREDITS GO TO BLEACH XD  I know this one off the top of my head considering I love the manga.

[Warock]

And we had some wine and dine

[Zereges]

GIVE ME ICARUS WINGS!! I NEED THEM!!
So great

[Kyomi]

You do realize that on GaiaOnline, you can turn your avatar thingy around. So they have more than one angle, not just the one you see normally. Kinda hard to believe you "imagined" other angles. :<

Edit: Allow me to show you. Going to take screenshots of my own avatar to show you~




When you post in the forums, depending on the order of your post the image of your avatar faces the oposite direction of what is shown. So I figured just showing those would do. The pose from behind, is the exact same as the one in your screenshot. I don't believe that could be mere coincidence, lol.

I used to frequent Gaia years ago, I kinda know how their items work. xD

[Kaleano]

I'm not really annoyed.  Just woulda been nice for you to be like. 'Hey we got these from other games'!  But tbh im glad you're putting them in RO.  They actually look ROish.  I just was blah cause you really didn't 'design' them.  You're just...tweaking them to be a part of the RO world I guess.  o.O;  Anyways keep it up, these sprites are cool.  And i'd love to see them ingame.  Moar sprites plz.

[Makiness]

You do realize that on GaiaOnline, you can turn your avatar thingy around. So they have more than one angle, not just the one you see normally. Kinda hard to believe you "imagined" other angles. :<

In my defense, I've never played, seen, or looked at Gaia Online until you all pointed it out and I had to learn everything about their legalities and terms =P  Crash course ftw XD!

Sorry, but I've never visited Gaia Online previously and do not plan to again =P  Not everyone plays that game just fyi (like myself).

I do believe I used the word "we" every time I posted anything about spriting.  Our spriter is the one who does most of the work so I am sorry if I was misinformed (I don't tend to question where how he made the sprites sadly), I was just trying to spread the word =]  We have 8 angles made for Kong Sang Scarf and planning to make a few more so it will be an animated sprite (which will be after we're done mass producing quite a few sprites =P).  If anything, I have to redo my formula xD  Anyhow I already gave credit in the first topic to Gaia Online and others~

I see what you mean now Kaleano =P  Either or is fine with me (spriting, tweaking, designing, whatever xD).

[xyuki]

Well I like the concept of your sprites but to be honest you should really change the color of Tuscan Sam. Those aren't RO colors at all and those really hurt your eyes. Not wanting to sound mean but some people are quite annoyed by such sprites and thus might not join the server. ó.ò I know it sounds harsh but when reading through several forums and eA you can see that. xD Btu as said the concept is nice.
I dont quite see whether you used black in the Flight of Cakes. But there is no black in RO nor white. If that is not black then sorry but looks as it was.

Just trying to be constructive I don't mean it negative. ;3

The Shinigami class sprite is the best I have seen yet though. ^^ All the others look pretty weird.

[xyuki]

If you don't agree to those calculations and Makiness' opinion that is one thing jTynne, but bashing someone like this is something completely different. Not like I stalked you on all posts but on those topics I read on which you did post, I didn't get the impression you would be a person acting this immature. o.O; Well not like I am to judge either.
But seriously saying you wish someone to lose a court case like this is not the way to have other people have a good impression about you. Just saying humiliation and cursing is also something you can bring up to court (not as good over the internet but still). ;3  Anyways I am going to refrain on going on abou this.

I believe those who don't agree shouldn't make such a big drama or flame war out of this. Stating your opinion is ifne but don't start bashing. ;3 Whether Makiness' designed the sprites or not she was trying to show something she has worked on and instead of kicking her with her feet be happy that there still are spriters around. These days there are fewer and fewer spriters and if you find some good ones they only give you something for payment. Not saying they shouldn't, I can understand they do.

I really don't know how much in % actually that is but (at least in Germany), if you change a picture so much that you CANNOT recognize it was picture X then it's actually legally fine in any way. (This wasn't the case here but anyways.)

But well I think this topic should just stay as it is. No need to try to make it closed due to a flame war.
And Makiness to try to avoid this going on I would stop trying to justify yourself. There will always be people who disagree and try to start up a fight. Just continue showing your stuff (if that is what you want of course. XD).



Sorry for being off topic. ;3

[Makiness]

http://www.ratemyserver.net/forum/index.php?action=globalAnnouncements;id=6

Please yield to the following guidelines when posting on these forums*.

   * Do not flame or spam in any form (image, text, interactive etc).
   * Trolling is not allowed.

[/quote]

In the case of the OP, as Kyomi and others have pointed out, they used various angles of the "sprite" from Gaia Online, cut them out, and made them into .spr / .act format. Not exactly hard to do.

http://img822.imageshack.us/img822/3672/screenmakai020.jpg
^We must have ripped this angle off of Gaia Online 3 I'm assuming?  You know, the one where they make all of RO's angles in spr/act format and all =P

I'm guessing two angles in that case (still makes the other 6 since AT LEAST Gaia Online #1 doesn't have them, maybe GO2 or GO3 does), time and time again I keep saying that I use the word "we" when I claim our sprite.  Why? because our main spriter sprited it and we we make the spr/act files and fix up angles that seem out of place or miscoloured or something.

I just joined Gaia Online recently and decided to actually view the system Kyomi was talking about and all it shows is the front and back angle (which I didn't know previously).  I'm not the best spriter (or the worst) in the world, but I do think that the other angles were definitely hard to do imo.

And Makiness to try to avoid this going on I would stop trying to justify yourself. There will always be people who disagree and try to start up a fight. Just continue showing your stuff (if that is what you want of course. XD).

My intent was never to justify myself =P  And ofc, if some of the players who decide to follow the rules would like to see more, then I shall post more =]  I definitely did say somewhere on one of these pages that we DID credit Gaia Online on our forums (and on eAthena in which our other Admin also managed not to be a retard (like myself) and included the credits =]), jTynne why not read what people say before you post an ignorant rant?  Here's the quotes: (once again my mistake)

http://www.eathena.ws/board/index.php?showtopic=260238

Allo everyone! Just wanted to show off a few previews of some of the new sprites we have been designing and working on for our server, MakaiRO biggrin.gif Sprited by KunKun n_____n (Quite a few of them were based off of Gaia if some of you noticed xP)

Sprited & Designed by Kunny.
Act by Tress & Michael
Credits (for ideas) from Gaia Online, Dransik, Habbo Hotel, and some other games D:

How about this: I'll remove our sprites once you remove your links for your server; owait, didn't ya know? by hosting a Ragnarok Online server you are blatantly breaking copyright, trademark, AND intellectual property laws ;].  Then again, I won't remove our sprites at all considering yours is a bigger crime =[!  And no need to get into technicalities about when the last time Gravity sued a private server or how much money it would cost them to fight a case.

PS: I'm kidding, just saying and have been trying to say (while also trying to defend myself which didn't help =P) that I made a mistake and forgot (nor deemed it necessary) to add credits.  I did add them after Kyomi asked if we had received permission from Gaia Online to use the sprites.  But yes, if no one pointed it out, I would've never credited them because I would've never thought about it, so thank you those who were nice about it =]