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Offline chrisg

SpiritRO
« on: May 25, 2023, 03:21 pm »
When you talk about the primary GM, Fluxion, being unpredictable, this screenshot is exactly what we are talking about.

"No explanation of any kind needs to be given", is a terrible approach to community building. If you suddenly change rules so that you can ban players as a knee-jerk reaction to an issue -- you should probably not be in a position where you interact with your community / server population.

Please hire a Community Manager. The server deserves better than you can provide.

« Last Edit: May 25, 2023, 03:34 pm by chrisg »

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Offline Fluxion

Re: SpiritRO
« Reply #1 on: May 25, 2023, 03:41 pm »
A player has been banned for breaking server rules.

After several warnings, the sanction has been applied
Because you try to justify yourself with screenshots, i will give screenshots too.
People who do not have the context can then make their own opinion.



« Last Edit: May 25, 2023, 04:45 pm by Fluxion »

Offline chrisg

Re: SpiritRO
« Reply #2 on: May 25, 2023, 06:10 pm »
Perfect, I love that you added the photos.

Let's break this down:

The announcement was put out that anyone discussing "dead server" opinions in #main (a server-wide channel for all discussions) or as a party-name (a public-facing suffix to your name). Nowhere in your post does it say that players discussing an opinion in proximity chat or private messages could be banned.

Based on the evidence provided: you specifically sought out a message in proximity chat between players --> for the purpose of banning a player as the message was not in a main channel.

Right now based on the posted, "How to make a failed ro-pserver" thread -- you are at step 13.

https://forum.ratemyserver.net/server-discussion/how-to-make-a-failed-ro-pserver/

Quote
Step Thirteen
Ban the people who play

Well, maybe the reason your community isn't growing is because the few people who actually play on your server are a bunch of cheaters, or jerks! Ban them. Make up silly rules that you don't post anywhere. Ask your cousin who only knows Python to mess with the client and make an "anti-hack" system.

I guess in our case we need you to ask your Cousin that knows how to build and run a community.

Offline Ralgondo

Re: SpiritRO
« Reply #3 on: May 26, 2023, 12:00 am »
totally normal rule and not an emotional GM lashing out  /ok

Offline chrisg

Re: SpiritRO
« Reply #4 on: May 26, 2023, 01:29 am »
It doesn't take long when looking through his chat history on Discord to find gems like this: How he moderated a misunderstanding between players very early on:

Anyone who disagrees with Fluxion is always receiving these aggressive remarks.

You can see this behavior as early as December of last year and it has only gotten worse the longer the server has been up.

Offline TernBreaker

Re: SpiritRO
« Reply #5 on: May 26, 2023, 04:25 am »
I am one of the players on this server. I am well known on this server, every day when I first enter the game, I put my merchant in the center of Prontera in order to be able to quickly sell or buy something, after I go afk. But periodically returning to the game, I can see the entire chat, everything that happened in it. And so I could scroll through this situation and read the entire message history.

I thought to stay away, but my conscience does not allow me to silently look at what is happening. And there is an attack on the server and a brazen forgery of facts. I repeat: impudent, unscrupulous, shameless forgery of facts. The person who created the topic takes the phrases out of context twice and tries to present the GM server as bad, and I will show the context: one of the server players in the discord wrote to the other that he is a dog and barking as a dog (screenshot attached), to which he received an adequate and only possible answer from the GM in such a situation. But the creator of the topic deliberately cropped the screenshot so that it was not visible to show that the GM throws such threats "just like that."

Several players who have been playing on the server for 5 months or longer regularly sit down in the center of Prontera and start writing in the general chat about which server is bad and dead. Mind you, these players have been playing on a "bad and dead" server for 5 to 10 months (i.e. since its opening). Apparently masochists. Such a bad and dead server that I really want to play on it for 5-10 months. And on May 20, GM could no longer stand this constant provocation and wrote a new rule in the discord, which you can see in the screenshot in his post (Fluxion). Those, it didn't just come out of nowhere. And according to the text of the rule after my message, you can understand the origins of where it came from. Look how many likes this new rule got - everyone is already tired of reading this nonsense about a "bad and dead" server in the general chat. The irony of fate is that the likes were put, including by those who are now trying to challenge the ban of a person for violating this rule. But one of those players that I wrote about above continued to do what he was doing and was banned. After that, the players of his guild began to threaten the GM with their departure from the server and the consequences in the RMS rating. Those, several players who rate the server such as 10, 26, 37 (screenshots are attached), etc., while playing on this server for 5,6 and 9 months, respectively, are struggling to unban their guild member in order to continue play on this s*** dead server". And what was the GM supposed to do after such threats? To say: "Oh-yo-yo guys, I was wrong, I remove the ban from the player for breaking the rules"? Thus, this guild is above the law and can violate any rules, each time in the event of a ban, threatening the GM with the departure of the entire guild from the server and the consequences in the RMS rating.

I had normal relations with the players of this guild, with someone good, mutually respectful. I tried to talk after this incident in private conversations and asked to draw conclusions with a cool head. But what you guys are doing here is just dishonorable and I couldn't pass it up. This is an unprincipled and dishonest attack on the server and its administration with phrases taken out of context and cropped screenshots. You are doing very badly. My character and upbringing do not allow me to just pass by, stay on the sidelines.

I understand that you are upset that your friend was banned, but he was banned for breaking the rules. And no matter how you try to turn things around at the angle you need, the fact remains. He was banned for breaking the rules. It is not necessary to write here that the rules contain the wrong chat, in which the message was eventually published - it is obvious that the rule applies to all public chats. If you really want to discuss with your friends that the server is "bad and dead", why don't you do it in private? Why aren't you doing this in the guild channel on discord? Why do you sit down regularly! to the center of Prontera and write this one there in a public chat for everyone to see, incl. new players who are there? This is an obvious provocation, deliberate. Why do you play on a "dead and bad" server for 5-10 months? Obviously because the server is not dead and not bad. It is clear that after my words and the situation as a whole, you can go off principle (and maybe one of your friends), but it will be precisely from the principle, and not because the server is bad.

You're being dishonest guys in this situation, you're being dishonest.
« Last Edit: May 26, 2023, 04:58 am by TernBreaker »

Offline hollowbash

Re: SpiritRO
« Reply #6 on: May 26, 2023, 06:50 am »
I appreciate your time to write a response Tern, however I think you may have misunderstood some things.

Quote
I thought to stay away, but my conscience does not allow me to silently look at what is happening. And there is an attack on the server and a brazen forgery of facts. I repeat: impudent, unscrupulous, shameless forgery of facts. The person who created the topic takes the phrases out of context twice and tries to present the GM server as bad, and I will show the context: one of the server players in the discord wrote to the other that he is a dog and barking as a dog (screenshot attached), to which he received an adequate and only possible answer from the GM in such a situation. But the creator of the topic deliberately cropped the screenshot so that it was not visible to show that the GM throws such threats "just like that."



I have attached the complete conversation above. So the player (AkoSiJim5) was insulted (being called Peenoise), and called people a dog back. This was entirely a misunderstanding and everyone apologized. After all that happened, Fluxion (the GM) essentially called them toxic and a retard. Another player disagreed with him in support of the person and quickly started getting wrath back from Fluxion. This is all there in the full screenshot.

I don’t know the banned player, I could not care less if they are banned, but how they were banned is the issue. I did not see anyone asking for them to be unbanned. They do deserve to be punished in some way, even if they didn’t strictly fall foul of the rule by posting in public chat. The actual issue is the rule to perma ban someone for typing something is extremely authoritarian. Perma bans should be saved for macros/cheaters/RMT etc. Imagine that you invested into a server for half a year and you can get permanently banned for saying something so non-offensive. You will even get a perma ban for mentioning old RO servers that don't exist any more (yes this is a rule...).

People honestly fear interacting with Fluxion, even posting suggestions because of his response. Genuinely good suggestions and quality of life improvements are denied (without reason) because Fluxion doesn’t consider it a community, he considers it “his server”. I am genuinely concerned about the longevity of the server, every day I wonder if Fluxion might just flip out over something trivial and turn the server off.

I appreciate you are heavily invested in the server Tern, as are many people, but Fluxion's actions are often indefensible. He does not take responsibility for his mistakes or learn from them, only blames others and the community. His response to the review bombing is simply that the reviewers must be in cahoots with the banned player, therefore he can ignore everything they said. He does not seek to address any of the issues raised by anyone there, here, or on Discord. This is the problem and why I am concerned for the server.
« Last Edit: May 26, 2023, 08:35 am by hollowbash »

Offline TernBreaker

Re: SpiritRO
« Reply #7 on: May 26, 2023, 10:54 am »
Unfortunately, you did not introduce yourself, but preferred to hide behind a silent nickname, so I will answer Mr. X (I hope you at least write to me personally on the discord who you are). In addition, judging by the way you respectfully wrote about me, now I may lose a good friend, acquaintance or just respect from a person, but as I wrote above, I simply cannot get past what is being done - my hands are in pockets, down the eyes and behind the teeth tongue – the position not for me. "Let friends and truth be dear to me, but duty commands me to give preference to truth" - a very famous man =)

Im sure an uninterested person will not write what you wrote, because it is clearly visible how a half-truth is presented at the “right” angle, what is not there is attracted by the ears.

“His response to the review bombing is simply that the reviewers must be in cahoots with the banned player, therefore he can ignore everything they said” - and these are the words of an uninterested person who did not take part in this? Come on! And again (I wrote it previous post), what answer you waited for? "Oh-yo-yo guys, I was wrong, I remove the ban from the player for breaking the rules"? I will repeat: “Thus, this guild is above the law and can violate any rules, each time in the event of a ban, threatening the GM with the departure of the entire guild from the server and the consequences in the RMS rating”. And I will add: they will not only be able to break the rules, but simply push through their ideas (and ofc you are not a person from this guild and not a friend of banned player). If I were a server administrator, I would take exactly the same position - it is obvious that proving something to someone is unrealistic, it is obvious that no one will take a position that is different from their own. Why swear? It makes no sense. There is no point in even discussing it normally, because everything that differs from the position of those who write is incorrect by definition. People had a friend banned and they started writing nasty things about the server - what can you discuss with them? By their actions, they showed their complete bias and dishonest position - we are fighting not because the server is bad, but because the banned player is our friend, what can you discuss with them? You banned our friend and we will take revenge, that's the whole position. And everything else that is presented to the administration here is just cunning debating tricks - those who are smarter among you are well aware that the banned player was wrong and answered for it, but the position of the guild is set - you need to take revenge on the administration, and if you just pour s*** on it like this was done by the first speaker, then it will become quite obvious to all third parties who is right and who is not, and the goals of revenge will not be achieved. Therefore, right now, on this very day (what a coincidence!) all the displeasure that had accumulated over 10 months was dumped on the administration at once! To somehow justify their dissatisfaction with the administration.

Perhaps you are not specifically interested in the fate of the banned person, but you are interested in something else to influence the administration. Perhaps you are not happy that you proposed something, your proposals were rejected and you just found a perfect opportunity to hit the administration for it (and you, of course, at this very moment, being completely unrelated to the situation, not being an interested person, it was on this day that you accidentally went to the RMS forum, it was in this section, you accidentally stumbled upon this topic and decided to write, being in no way associated with the banned player and having nothing to do with his fate).

Now a little more specific:

You blame the administration for what it did not do, but that you are afraid of what it will do. Those, you blame people for your fears. Are you serious? You are afraid that you will be banned for this, you are afraid that you will be banned for that, you are afraid that tomorrow he will close the server. Maybe you are afraid that tomorrow he will come to you with a knife in the house? How is he to blame? I've been making a bunch of offers since the opening of the server and I've never been afraid. For some reason, other players made a bunch of offers and never banned anyone. You yourself came up with what could be banned for this and began to accuse the administration of what you yourself came up with.

"I am genuinely concerned about the longevity of the server..." - It's quite obvious that what you're doing now is to make the server feel bad, not to be concerned about its longevity. You just write one thing and do the opposite. A man is what he does, not what he says. If a person cuts another with a knife with words about how he wishes him a long life, then who is he, a virtue or a murderer?

"People honestly fear interacting with Fluxion, even posting suggestions because of his response." - On what basis do you claim this, on the fact that you personally and several of your friends think so, you are trying to extrapolate this to all people - this is just a cunning discussion trick, nothing more. "Genuinely good suggestions and quality of life improvements are denied (without reason)" - is again just not a true. So you or your like-minded people put forward ideas, they were rejected and you write what you write. And at this time, for example, I and the rest of the server may consider these ideas bad, but you forget to write about it. Moreover, many ideas are put forward repeatedly, i.e. they have been discussed for a long time, the administration, sometimes, together with the players, came to some conclusion and eventually adopted some point of view, which naturally does not like some of the players. And this part does not give up and after a couple of months again tries to sell what it wants, spitting on the fact that they have already been denied. The clearest example is the multi-client restriction. Hot heads for a very long time and tediously claimed that everyone wants this with rare exceptions. They held a vote, and it turned out that a clear majority was against the restrictions. And what? Several months have passed and the question is being raised again, but with a slightly different sauce. People do not want to admit that they are not the majority, but who is to blame? Of course the GM who, upon resurfacing this question, simply said no without explaining. Those, if your idea is rejected it is always "Genuinely good suggestions and quality of life improvements". But I read all the sections with ideas and I can confidently say that they are ill-conceived, one-sided. I don't see any ideas at all that could really improve the server's life.

The server is stable, the server has absolutely clear rules and policies. When you write that you don't know what to expect, can you tell me what a sharp turn the administration has ever made that you didn't expect? Please, be so kind as to give an example. Quite the opposite: the policy with additions and the introduction of things is what it was, and remains so, despite all the pressure from some people (are you not one of them by any chance?). The rules are all clear and I wrote where the latter came from (by the way, do you think it's ethical to advertise one server while on another?). All other rules have been introduced since the creation of the server, nothing changes. There is such a good saying: "With your charter, you don't go to someone else's monastery." You came to a server with its rules and policies, if you don't like them, why did you choose this server? And if you thought they were normal, why do you blame the administration for being like that? Again, this is not the first time I am writing: they were like that from the very beginning, I know this very well, because I was one of the first players on this server – nothing global and important has changed. It’s like buying an SUV and blaming its designer for not being able to overtake anyone on a Formula 1 race track.

"He does not take responsibility for his mistakes or learn from them, only blames others and the community" - And what are you doing now? Not the same? Only instead of the community you need to insert the word administration. How many servers have you changed in your life? learned from your mistakes? Understand what is good and what is bad, what is possible and what is not? He does not learn from his mistakes - and you are the wise man who knows for sure that this is a mistake. Or maybe it's your mistake to consider the correct actions of the administration a mistake? But of course not, everyone is infallible in their own eyes, and all other idiots. Or maybe he just does everything right in the long term, and you do not have enough intelligence and experience to evaluate it? How to find out? Here, historians still argue whether the ruler of the 15th or 18th century was good or bad for his country. Comes to a fight! (I know this very well, because I was part of it). And you know for sure that if the administration did not make a new event, then this is their mistake, which will lead to the death of the server.

What should server administration provide?
1. Stability - is it there, when did you see the last stability issues?
2. A clear policy without changes during the game - it is also there (vanilla server, updates every 6 months, updates strictly follow the official server - everything is done as stated).
3. Write down the rules and follow them (catching cheaters and destructive people) - as you can see, this also exists and works. I repeat once again - he was not banned, having come up with a rule in hindsight! The rule was introduced 5 days before the ban - this is the first, and the second, thanks to this particular player, this rule came into being in part, i.e. he already knew not to do that.
4. Absence of corruption, playing GMs, etc. - fully complied with and you yourself know this very well.

And you constantly demand that the administration return the pleasure of the game to you. Only you yourself can make the game interesting - this is not a matter of inaction of the administration. No additional loot in chests in the form of ice picks will make the game process interesting. No restrictions on the number of clients and other nonsense will not make the game interesting. No GM of the world will make the game interesting. If you are bored playing the game, this is not a fault of the server administration, it is you who have played enough and aged, but you want to return the old feelings and are absolutely sure that you will make an offer, it will be introduced and the flowers will bloom, and the grass will trample on growth! We had one "offerer" who suggested 4 points to improve the server, 3 of them were completed and he left the server after a couple of weeks =) He suddenly found that his suggestions did not work, that he was not interested in playing the game, so and left.

And why do you yourself write "His response to the review bombing ..." - this is what I'm trying to show - there is an attack on the server due not to problems with the server, but solely due to the fact that someone formed a relationship with someone. This is what I call your dishonest behavior. Everyone wanted to spit on the health of the server and its longevity - everyone just wants everything to develop according to their scenario, and if this is not the case, then a war begins with the administration and everyone who holds a different point of view.

Many people think that I play a lot, but in fact most of the time my characters are afk. I am a very busy person and I know how to value time, but I had to spend a huge piece of it on this mouse fuss. This is my last post in this thread so that nothing else happens. I am not an English-speaking person, and not only did I spend a huge amount of time writing all this, I spent 10 times more time translating it so that the meaning of what was written was not lost.

I highly doubt anyone who comes here to pick a server has read all of this - no one needs it. Either interested people come here, or just those who just have a lot of free time and read all this just to have something to do with themselves.

But still, if someone, based on all of the above, concludes whether to play on the server or not, then I state my general opinion on the situation:
1)   some of what is written in all messages above is slander
2)   some is personal dissatisfaction and a good opportunity to kick the administration for the fact that she did not realize someone's desires,
3)   and part of them were just made-up expectations that did not come true and an attempt to blame someone for this.

I am absolutely convinced that the previous writer sets the same goals as the topic creator, it’s just that the topic creator did it rudely and everything was clear to everyone, so a person who can write beautifully and use debating tricks got involved, correctly taking information from the angle he needed and hiding behind phrases about taking care of the server.

I think so, maybe I'm wrong. But let third parties, looking at all this from the outside, draw their conclusions on the basis of their experience and they will decide for themselves whether the administration is really so bad and it’s not worth playing on the server, or is it all right there and it’s worth playing.
« Last Edit: May 26, 2023, 11:24 am by TernBreaker »

Offline chrisg

Re: SpiritRO
« Reply #8 on: May 26, 2023, 11:16 am »
Let's make something completely clear:

If we introduce ourselves here our in-game characters will receive bans for new rules Fluxion will suddenly make. Just because the largest guild on the server has decided to leave does not mean that everyone has. In fact, asking for a community manager only benefits me if I stay

There's an explicit reason we are choosing to use a public forum that can't be moderated directly by Fluxion in order to open this topic further.

Side note: The longevity of your posts do not increase their legitimacy. Let's keep discussions to the point.

Offline Clarence Parents

Re: SpiritRO
« Reply #9 on: May 26, 2023, 02:36 pm »
Hello everyone reading this,

Tern, You can keep writing paragraphs and even a book, but you know you're wrong and you know how Flux treats people and/or their suggestions. I would send you screenshots but you are on Discord and of course, you can read it yourself. :)
"And you constantly demand that the administration return the pleasure of the game to you."  - The admin does nothing, no method. I was here for 6 months and nothing happened. The only thing that happened was the way he implanted the last UPDATE [which was surprisingly bad even for Flux] and if you have no idea what I'm talking about, I'd rather you not respond here with nonsense and paragraphs.
(And no, I didn't read what you wrote, but I can assume what you claim from my acquaintance with you.)
Oh, and please stop ruining the server's economy @Tern. that would help the server.

- I just want to warn people before they join to expect a dictator
« Last Edit: May 26, 2023, 02:50 pm by Clarence Parents »

Offline Nordic

Re: SpiritRO
« Reply #10 on: May 26, 2023, 03:09 pm »
Hey. Ignite here. I do not have the energy or way with words that Tern has, so I'll keep it short.

He is completely right. The person that made this post in dishonest in the way he created the post. The GM made an official post on Discord and then you complain when you got punished the exact way the GM told he was going to. Let's be grown ups and face the repercutions of our own actions, yes?

To the guild: Grow up. If you threat in any way to leave bad reviews and complain like little children then good riddence. Your member broke the rules, and he got punished, that is all.

To the over all Flux critizism: He is only human, and he is doing his best. And he has a passion for this game and this project which really gives him some leeway. He is French though... haha jkjk. =)

What a silly retaliation post. No real arguments at all.


Offline chrisg

Re: SpiritRO
« Reply #11 on: May 26, 2023, 04:24 pm »
Hey I G N I T E, this you?


The people who don't care how their actions or words affect other people would never feel the need to keep track of anything. That's why you never do. It is also why Fluxion failed to provide evidence he had himself for the Ban issue since at no point would he feel that someone could possibly question his actions. Hiding things and banning anyone asking has always been his game-plan from the start for these issues and it has finally hit an undeniable, indefensible head.

I also really appreciate you helping bump this topic so it stays visible to everyone. Please continue supporting our cause to have a real Server Manager added to the team.

PS: It may be time to take your own advice sweetie.


Offline Nordic

Re: SpiritRO
« Reply #12 on: May 26, 2023, 04:34 pm »
Hey I G N I T E, this you?


The people who don't care how their actions or words affect other people would never feel the need to keep track of anything. That's why you never do. It is also why Fluxion failed to provide evidence he had himself for the Ban issue since at no point would he feel that someone could possibly question his actions. Hiding things and banning anyone asking has always been his game-plan from the start for these issues and it has finally hit an undeniable, indefensible head.

I also really appreciate you helping bump this topic so it stays visible to everyone. Please continue supporting our cause to have a real Server Manager added to the team.

PS: It may be time to take your own advice sweetie.



Imagine looking at the general discord log and select the perfect out of context post to prove a point and doesn't need to be proven at all because it has nothing to do with the post.
I don't know who you are in game. I've probably never interacted with you but that is ok. You are just a sore loser that got mad because you got the ban hammer. Rules are rules. It is a private server, no one pays a subscription, you get what you get.
« Last Edit: May 26, 2023, 05:06 pm by Nordic »