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RateMyServer.Net => Rant and Rave => Server Discussion => Hall Of Shame => Topic started by: Reality on Apr 21, 2013, 08:08 pm

Title: Admin Noah (a.k.a. Peach). Untrustable.
Post by: Reality on Apr 21, 2013, 08:08 pm
Hello RMS.

First of all...

PLEASE DO NOT BRING UP MY ACCOUNT SECURITY IN THIS THREAD. IT IS IRRELEVANT.

That is not what this topic is about. This topic is about Noah/Peach.

I am here today as a player of DivinityRO. I am a well-geared High Wizard with a high standing in BG. Well, that would have been true, about 7 hours ago, before my accounts were hacked.

I logged in and my equipment and valuable items (including badges and BG gear) were all missing. This was hundreds of hours of work. I'm very distraught about this, as I now have to start completely fresh, again, and rebuild my characters and double the hours of hunting and BG farming.

The good news is that thanks to the staff of Divinity, I have been able to research the source of the IP address that logged into my account this morning, posed as me (and, according to rumor, even used a Megaphone to shout "I love ****" with my character), and dropped, sold, and destroyed all my items.

Here, you can see the login history of my account. The login at 10:46:05, today, was not me. Take note that this is the only login where the account name was not capitalized, as I do that out of habit when logging in. The IPs and my username are obstructed for privacy and confidentiality reasons.

(click to show/hide)

This was not the only account that was hacked. Many of my other accounts were hacked as well, and I have been left with nothing. I can post those login records if requested, as well.

I took it upon myself to do some sleuthing...

(click to show/hide)

Portland, Oregon, it says. I know somebody who lives there, and has the motive to ruin me!

On a hunch, I checked...

(click to show/hide)

This is the Skype account of GM Noah of PureRO, also known as GM Peach, a GM who I have worked with closely on both EquityRO and LeviathanRO. I met her when she was staff for DivinityRO about a year ago. However, we parted ways with a large argument and disagreement, and fell out of contact. This argument occurred in early January, I believe. Still, before that, we were very close. I even gave her administrative access to my old guild forums to help me configure them up for my guild. Actually, this gave me a valuable lead...

(click to show/hide)

I was in shock. We had not talked in months. She had access to my logins much, much before this. This was unexpected, especially of an admin of a new, growing server, PureRO. I still don't know what the trigger was, for such a malicious act. I could not believe she would actually risk the success of her server, her credibility, and all the trust her players have in their administer, only for petty revenge. I thought she was above this. After confirmation from DivinityRO, I am very disappointed...

Take note that her IP is dynamic, and the IP was different back then than it is now. This IP is similar, but that's not the hard proof. The email confirms the identity.

(click to show/hide)

Lastly, there are many people who can confirm that Noah is in fact Peach's new handle.

(click to show/hide)

It has been confirmed. Noah/Peach was the one who had logged onto my account this morning, and dismantled all that I had worked for.

I feel very disappointed and violated, and the community who has placed their trust in her should feel the same.

-Reality
Title: Re: Admin Noah (a.k.a. Peach) of PureRO. Untrustable.
Post by: Cawliflower on Apr 21, 2013, 08:18 pm
Just a FYI, Peach has also had a knack, ever since her fail server EquityRO was destroyed when I re-opened Divinity, or maybe an obsession for all things Cookie. This is a prime example of the kind of nonsense that she tries to get away with. On top of that, they've opened roughly 3 servers in less than a year? It's ridiculous. I recently had a player actually PM me on my forums saying they found files from Divinity in PureRO's GRF.

(http://i.imgur.com/GLh5Lgg.jpg)

Also... I found this and had a nice laugh. (http://i.imgur.com/irk1BNV.jpg) I'm assuming Peach is trying to ditch her identity.

Here Peach, I've got some advice: stop running servers, and remember to proxy when you're hacking into people using their passwords from YOUR server databases.

In all honesty, I nominate Peach for the GM HoS. She has stolen websites, hacked into people, and abused her GM privileges many times. It's getting ridiculous.

Good riddance.
Title: Re: Admin Noah (a.k.a. Peach). Untrustable.
Post by: Reality on Apr 21, 2013, 08:24 pm
I would like to admit that I did in fact grant permission to Peach to log into my accounts, a little less than a year ago, to help me test something.

This does not change anything. She abused the knowledge she had for unjust reasons, and it is not her right to slander my name, in-game, and completely destroy all my hard work on DivinityRO. This is absolutely unacceptable behavior.

In the process, she has risked her reputation, along with the reputation of her server.

-Reality
Title: Re: Admin Noah (a.k.a. Peach). Untrustable.
Post by: Bue on Apr 21, 2013, 08:32 pm
@reality; as a general rule in CS, don't ever use the same password for everything. (hint)

@cawliflower; how much of DivRO's grf was copied?
Title: Re: Admin Noah (a.k.a. Peach). Untrustable.
Post by: Cawliflower on Apr 21, 2013, 08:36 pm
Quote from: Bue on Apr 21, 2013, 08:32 pm
@reality; as a general rule in CS, don't ever use the same password for everything. (hint)

@cawliflower; how much of DivRO's grf was copied?
I don't know. From what I've heard, a majority of the files. Even individual maps that I just copied anyway from kRO. For example, turbo_room -> dro_mall. To be honest, players have told me about it and I haven't really cared enough to download their GRF files to search through them. I simply don't pay that much attention to other servers since I'm in-charge of actually developing my own on a day-to-day basis when I'm not busy with work. I just added that in for hilarity. It does make sense though as she did steal LuminaRO's design at one point.
Title: Re: Admin Noah (a.k.a. Peach). Untrustable.
Post by: Reality on Apr 21, 2013, 08:45 pm
Quote from: Bue on Apr 21, 2013, 08:32 pm
@reality; as a general rule in CS, don't ever use the same password for everything. (hint)

Only my RO logins have the same password. Everything else is different.

-Reality
Title: Re: Admin Noah (a.k.a. Peach). Untrustable.
Post by: Saiku on Apr 21, 2013, 08:56 pm
*Grabs popcorn*

That's... a shame that you have all ro infos the same. I mean, if you already lost contact, doesn't that mean you should change your password? Not to mention that it wasn't a good "goodbye" either. In fact, I'm in a neutral zone for both of you. I haven't talk with Zane in a while (except regarding the server he's develop in or when he turned 21 and got drunk ._.) So I don't know who should I go with in this matter, but I don't think MrMystery is peach tho. Of course, It's just my thought.
Title: Re: Admin Noah (a.k.a. Peach). Untrustable.
Post by: Reality on Apr 21, 2013, 09:00 pm
Quote from: Saiku on Apr 21, 2013, 08:56 pm
*Grabs popcorn*

That's... a shame that you have all ro infos the same. I mean, if you already lost contact, doesn't that mean you should change your password? Not to mention that it wasn't a good "goodbye" either. In fact, I'm in a neutral zone for both of you. I haven't talk with Zane in a while (except regarding the server he's develop in or when he turned 21 and got drunk ._.) So I don't know who should I go with in this matter, but I don't think MrMystery is peach tho. Of course, It's just my thought.

She knew I was playing DivinityRO long ago. I thought that if she was going to do it, she already would have, especially during the heat of the moment. I thought she had gotten over it.

I guess you can't count on anyone to move on or be the better person, can you?

-Reality

Edit: I don't want to see another post about me changing my passwords or anything like that. My account security isn't the discussion, here. The topic is Peach's poor judgment and grudging personality. This is not something an admin should do.
Title: Re: Admin Noah (a.k.a. Peach). Untrustable.
Post by: aROPandora on Apr 21, 2013, 09:55 pm
Wow that is really petty.....And also why you should change your passwords every now and then especially if you know someone has your info
Title: Re: Admin Noah (a.k.a. Peach). Untrustable.
Post by: Xarale on Apr 21, 2013, 11:18 pm
Wow, that sure is petty behaviour.

There's definitely no doubt about it though, the evidence is overwhelming.  Way to go Peach, you've been caught out, and now your credibility has dropped through the floor.. and for what?  Petty revenge?  Hope you feel proud of yourself.

@Cookie - Request granted on the basis of hacking into accounts of players on other servers - Welcome to the GM Hall of Shame (http://forum.ratemyserver.net/hall-of-shame/gm-hall-of-shame/), Peach/Admin Noah.
Title: Re: Admin Noah (a.k.a. Peach). Untrustable.
Post by: Cawliflower on Apr 21, 2013, 11:43 pm
I appreciate it. She deserves it. Also, welcome to the club Peach.
Title: Re: Admin Noah (a.k.a. Peach). Untrustable.
Post by: Triper on Apr 22, 2013, 12:31 am
Quote from: Cawliflower on Apr 21, 2013, 08:18 pm
I recently had a player actually PM me on my forums saying they found files from Divinity in PureRO's GRF.

(http://i.imgur.com/GLh5Lgg.jpg)
Since this is a serious accusation, I decided to trade a bit of sleep and check this with my own eyes.
This is what I found :I
PureRO's GRF:
(click to show/hide)

DivinityRO's GRF:
(click to show/hide)

I only highlighted the dro_pvp and dro_mall files that are being talked on the PM because I though that those were the ones being target and forgot the hu_coast01 until I was going to post this but they're also present there as everybody can see so, not going to take new shots and re-download everything again just for that ...
If you're wondering about the Cowring Sprite files ... It's also present on both GRFs of both servers but that is a different case. It's a free to use sprite mob and it's well known for ages[since the times of the old eathena's forum!] and anyone can get it by using google and download it from some well known places[if terms of ro sprites ofc].

A big small note about this files - this doesn't mean that it was Peach who put them there, since any member of the staff could put it there and screw the rest of the team's reputation because they didn't know about such fact because a team is usually made based on trust[as much as this seems impossible], but it's present in their GRFs which is a bad thing for the entire server's reputation. If those files were put there, who guarantees that there isn't more? Well, let's just hope not.


If there is a good justification about this and it pop's up before I come here after lunch and all I posted:
ends being a lie - All I can say it's that I'm sorry for it. It wasn't my intention to damage the good name of the server.
ends being true - I just hope that this doesn't mean the end of PureRO and instead just a lesson learned for a better future of the server because it hurts seeing a place, where players call it home, being destroyed.

PS - I know that Xarale already said that he added Peach/Admin Noah to Hall of Shame but I added the pics anyway. In any circumstance, it will be here as evidence if it ends being true.
Title: Re: Admin Noah (a.k.a. Peach). Untrustable.
Post by: MrMystery on Apr 22, 2013, 12:53 am
Triper,

The grf related issues I have discussed with Cookie on Skype so those have already been resolved. I don't think there is need to investigate it further as the problem and solution has been discussed over Skype between Cookie and I and I believe it has been settled.
Title: Re: Admin Noah (a.k.a. Peach). Untrustable.
Post by: Triper on Apr 22, 2013, 09:14 am
Ok.
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Admin Noah (a.k.a. Peach). Untrustable.
Post by: Cawliflower on Apr 22, 2013, 01:44 pm
Quote from: Triper on Apr 22, 2013, 09:14 am
Ok.
(click to show/hide)

There really isn't. I agreed to not further badmouth his server out of being respectful and gracious at that. However, I will admit that the admittance of said information at a time like this didn't show a genuine concern for being upfront and honest about the actions that they originally took when creating their first server -> present.
Title: Re: Admin Noah (a.k.a. Peach). Untrustable.
Post by: Daletos on Apr 22, 2013, 08:07 pm
Quote from: Peach on May 20, 2012, 06:43 am
That is the exact reason why I don't give out my personal information(MSN, Skype, etc..) to players while I'm a GM, because those are the areas where I relax and joke around with my friends. I kind of just expect myself to be professional whenever I feel I'm representing the server. If I want to just fool around on the actual server, or on the server forums, I do so through a separate character/account as to conceal my identity~ (That's also why my character names are different from my GM name.)

Just doing some digging because I'm a sneaky mofo. Well definitely didn't live up to this. Should have at least kept it clean Peach given your current position and for your rep regarding Pure RO. Its obvious at this point there is tension between Pure RO and EO-RO staff  from previous server and contact etc. But doing something like this even for revenge was pretty low even if you have a beef with Reality. Bit disappointed with you Peach as I played Equity as well as a few server with you and slightly though of as better than Cookie. Sigh, it seems like friendship/everyone getting along is impossible in the psever community. Its always "he said, she said", copying, drama,
corruption and so on; at least it makes for good entertainment.

Anyways Cookie fo #1 GM PLZ
Title: Re: Admin Noah (a.k.a. Peach). Untrustable.
Post by: Playtester on Apr 23, 2013, 04:31 am
Oh my drama again. Won't even comment on it, am disappointed too~
I mean Reality certainly has a difficult personality, but why not just leave him alone then. >-<

But regarding the GRF I don't think it was stolen with an evil intention, especially since the custom files are not actually used at all.
Title: Re: Admin Noah (a.k.a. Peach). Untrustable.
Post by: krosserdog on Apr 23, 2013, 11:11 pm
Even though I am rather disappointed by Noah's action, I just want to point out something regarding this topic.

According to Reality's report, Noah logged into Reality's account due to some personal issue which is unrelated. The fact that Noah knows Reality's account is because of Reality giving her his account IDs, and not because of Noah's abusing any type of GM's power.

Quote from: Reality on Apr 21, 2013, 08:24 pm
I would like to admit that I did in fact grant permission to Peach to log into my accounts, a little less than a year ago, to help me test something.
-Reality

While it was unacceptable for Noah's action, I have to remind that this is a thread to report corrupted GM's abusing power or something of the sort. This thread is merely an individual report and doesn't contain any GM related issues.

Here's my 2 cent opinion, I am a player in pureRO and in my opinion so far, Noah seems to be a nice person. Just because Noah did something so personal against Reality doesn't mean that as a GM, she would do the same to players. Noah has been actively engage in the server a couple of times and helping out people. I don't think Noah deserve to be on the "GM" Hall of Shame just because of an individual report.
Title: Re: Admin Noah (a.k.a. Peach). Untrustable.
Post by: krosserdog on Apr 23, 2013, 11:27 pm
I'm going to add some more to my previous reply.

According to DivRO's rules http://wiki.divinityro.com/index.php/Server_Rules (http://wiki.divinityro.com/index.php/Server_Rules)
"The DivinityRO staff is NOT RESPONSIBLE for in-game accounts, items, zeny, characters, etc. Players are responsible to secure their accounts with strong passwords (alphanumeric with symbols is recommended) to ensure security. The staff will attempt to resolve any cases that may come up but do not guarantee resolution in favor of the reporter."

Player, in this case Reality, has failed to secure his account by granting someone else permission to access into his account. It is part of Reality's fault for not changing his password or doing some kind of security upgrade even after having an argument or conflict with the person who he has granted permission to his account, Noah.

Quote from: Reality on Apr 21, 2013, 08:08 pm
However, we parted ways with a large argument and disagreement, and fell out of contact.
-Reality

It should be Reality's responsibility to change his account password or protect his own account. The blame shouldn't be entirely shifted to Noah, who still has hold of Reality's account.

Overall, this thread is a player report not a corrupt GM report and should be in the "Rant and Rave" section.
Title: Re: Admin Noah (a.k.a. Peach). Untrustable.
Post by: Reality on Apr 24, 2013, 12:45 am
Quote from: krosserdog on Apr 23, 2013, 11:11 pm
Even though I am rather disappointed by Noah's action, I just want to point out something regarding this topic.

According to Reality's report, Noah logged into Reality's account due to some personal issue which is unrelated. The fact that Noah knows Reality's account is because of Reality giving her his account IDs, and not because of Noah's abusing any type of GM's power.

Did you not read the big, oversized text in the main post?

This has nothing to do with the shared account (previously) or DivinityRO rules. This has to do with a public figure that should not be trusted and takes desperate actions based on grudges and malicious intent. This is completely out of line for any GM to do, not to mention an admin. This is about her awful judgment and terrible character that drove her to this level of desperateness.

This got moved directly to the Hall of Shame for a reason. This is an unforgivable action for an admin to take, and she belongs here for it.

Please stay on topic. This is not about blaming anybody. It's about how little trust people should have in Peach/Noah.

-Reality
Title: Re: Admin Noah (a.k.a. Peach). Untrustable.
Post by: SnowBunny on Apr 24, 2013, 01:01 am
Quote from: krosserdog on Apr 23, 2013, 11:27 pm
Overall, this thread is a player report not a corrupt GM report and should be in the "Rant and Rave" section.

Actually if matters are put aside, thread was made to show how a certain individual acted towards another individual. In this case, Peach towards Reality. Yes Peach isn't corrupt, but it's considered as a betrayal of trust and it's on the HoS guidelines too.

Even if Reality didn't give out his password or such, what makes you think Peach won't check the old files she has on the old servers where Reality has his acc info on? Putting aside the fact that Reality is Derpy for not changing his info, think about it. If Peach did this to one person, what makes you think she won't do it again to other players?

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Admin Noah (a.k.a. Peach). Untrustable.
Post by: Cawliflower on Apr 24, 2013, 01:06 am
There's no reason to continue to discuss this. Re-read the entire topic before you post everyone. She used his password without authorized access to gain entry to his account due to the fact she found out he is opening a LR server that will compete with hers. And we don't know if it is corruption or not. She could've forgotten his password after all this time and if they didn't encrypt their login table on their past servers (which inexperienced Administrators tend to forget - I can name a few big name servers I caught forgetting to do so and I was like "DO THIS NOW") she could've found his account and used the password from that which would be corrupt.

BOTTOM LINE, it was considered hacking and it's grounds for the Game Master Hall of Shame. Get over it, and move on.

(click to show/hide)

Honestly, this thread isn't for her to go in-game and to get players to respond for redemption from the HoS via de-railing the actual issue.
Title: Re: Admin Noah (a.k.a. Peach). Untrustable.
Post by: krosserdog on Apr 24, 2013, 01:45 am
Quote from: Cawliflower on Apr 24, 2013, 01:06 am
She used his password without authorized access to gain entry to his account...
Reality did grant her permission and never took it back.

Quote from: Cawliflower on Apr 24, 2013, 01:06 am
due to the fact she found out he is opening a LR server that will compete with hers. And we don't know if it is corruption or not. She could've forgotten his password after all this time and if they didn't encrypt their login table on their past servers (which inexperienced Administrators tend to forget - I can name a few big name servers I caught forgetting to do so and I was like "DO THIS NOW") she could've found his account and used the password from that which would be corrupt.

This is merely your assumption. Please provides proof.
Reality gave Noah his account and according to divRO's rule, it is Reality's responsibility to protect his own account.

Quote from: SnowBunny on Apr 24, 2013, 01:01 am
Actually if matters are put aside, thread was made to show how a certain individual acted towards another individual. In this case, Peach towards Reality. Yes Peach isn't corrupt, but it's considered as a betrayal of trust and it's on the HoS guidelines too.

Even if Reality didn't give out his password or such, what makes you think Peach won't check the old files she has on the old servers where Reality has his acc info on? Putting aside the fact that Reality is Derpy for not changing his info, think about it. If Peach did this to one person, what makes you think she won't do it again to other players?
It's a betrayal of trust but then again, it's between players not admins.
Reality did give Noah his account, and due a personal grudge, Noah committed a revenge on him.
In reality (not Reality the person), one person can be nice to a person while at the same time, be mean to another person. You can't be fallacious and hasty generalize Noah as an untrustworthy person base on one single action.

Quote from: Reality on Apr 24, 2013, 12:45 am
Did you not read the big, oversized text in the main post?

This has nothing to do with the shared account (previously) or DivinityRO rules. This has to do with a public figure that should not be trusted and takes desperate actions based on grudges and malicious intent. This is completely out of line for any GM to do, not to mention an admin. This is about her awful judgment and terrible character that drove her to this level of desperateness.

This got moved directly to the Hall of Shame for a reason. This is an unforgivable action for an admin to take, and she belongs here for it.

Please stay on topic. This is not about blaming anybody. It's about how little trust people should have in Peach/Noah.

-Reality
Again, it was a player with player personal problem. This is not GM related problem.
Your account security is also relevant to this topic. It's like I put something on the table without any security and report the person who took it.
Furthermore, it seem that you and Noah had conflict in the past and this was a petty revenge by her, as a player. This does not prove that Noah is being a bad GM base on her personal grudge with someone else. Even the nicest person can be malicious toward his/her mortal enemy.

As stated above, please don't hasty generalize something just base on one single action. It's like I assume you're a bad driver since you make one single mistake.
The fact that Noah get put into the HoS so fast might be a problem, though I wish the moderator of this forum would give more time to think and give his best judgement about it.

Also, on a side note:
"Admin Noah of PureRO (aka. Peach) - Hacking into players accounts on other servers"
Noah didn't hack into Reality account; he gave his account credentials to her. If the verdict of Noah being untrustworthy still hold, please edit the reason why Noah is being put on the HoS.(to like, i don't know, betray Reality's trust even though they dislike each other(?))
Title: Re: Admin Noah (a.k.a. Peach). Untrustable.
Post by: krosserdog on Apr 24, 2013, 01:53 am
Quote from: Cawliflower on Apr 24, 2013, 01:06 am
Honestly, this thread isn't for her to go in-game and to get players to respond for redemption from the HoS via de-railing the actual issue.
It seems like Cawliflower edits his post after I made my reply. Noah didn't come in-game and complain about it. She even resigned as a GM to reserve the server's reputation.
This thread was sent to me by two other player, one who quit pureRO to join eo-RO and the other in evolveRO.
Upon reading this topic, I thought it was rather unfair so I decided to defend Noah.

Also note on the HoS rules:
"Do NOT abuse this section for people you don't like."- Xarale
Title: Re: Admin Noah (a.k.a. Peach). Untrustable.
Post by: Cawliflower on Apr 24, 2013, 01:55 am
Revoking this post.

She hacked a player as a Game Master (on another server she had beef with - mine). There is overwhelming proof. Everything else is speculation and a clever way to try to skew the thread in order to get this revoked.

I'm done contributing to this thread.
Title: Re: Admin Noah (a.k.a. Peach). Untrustable.
Post by: krosserdog on Apr 24, 2013, 02:07 am
Quote from: Cawliflower on Apr 24, 2013, 01:55 am
tl;dr
Apparently, Cawliflower here doesn't like to read long text of logic, though I don't really expect you too either.

Quote from: Cawliflower on Apr 24, 2013, 01:55 am
On a side note: I find it interesting that you're well versed with the DivinityRO rules yet you play on PureRO. Why?
I did a little bit of research on divRO rules prior in reply to this topic, after all, I don't write my reply without any proof(unlike someone).

Quote from: Cawliflower on Apr 24, 2013, 01:55 am
On top of that, the rules are written that way to ensure players understand it isn't the staff's responsibility to return their items when they give their passwords out to every friend and lose items. These rules don't apply to RMS HoS guidelines. The act itself was unjust.
Since it isn't the staff's responsibility to return the player items, it can also mean that the staff won't be responsible to the player's account. Reality fails to protect his account and blaming Noah, who he gave his account credentials to, for "hacking" him.
On what base are you saying that the act is unjust? I assume common sense. Then is it not common sense that a player should protect his own account?

Quote from: Cawliflower on Apr 24, 2013, 01:55 am
Anyway, RMS staff don't remove HoS entries on a bunch of mere comments and logic skewed for the purpose of trying to scapegoat the consequences of hacking someone out of spite.
I am merely asking for a re-evaluation, not removing entry.

Quote from: Cawliflower on Apr 24, 2013, 01:55 am
Also, did I say I don't like Peach? I find it interesting that you're saying that as well.
Did I never mention that you dislike Peach? I am talking about the account owner, Reality, and the other party in question, Noah.
It is stated by Reality in his original post that they part way with conflict and disagreement.
Title: Re: Admin Noah (a.k.a. Peach). Untrustable.
Post by: Orange on Apr 24, 2013, 02:08 am
Might not be my place to comment, I've played DivRO and to me the entire thing seems sorted out by now. AFAIK Reality has gotten some stuff back and is able to continue on like nothing happened.

Quote from: krosserdog on Apr 24, 2013, 01:45 am
Your account security is also relevant to this topic. It's like I put something on the table without any security and report the person who took it.
Reality could of easily prevented the entire matter but he didn't, that in no way means Noah had to go and do it. It doesn't matter if you leave something on a table or strap it to your body, if someone takes it they've taken it. Noah didn't intrude on the account because it was easy, but because he's a bit of a d***.


Quote from: krosserdog on Apr 24, 2013, 01:45 am
Furthermore, it seem that you and Noah had conflict in the past and this was a petty revenge by her, as a player. This does not prove that Noah is being a bad GM base on her personal grudge with someone else.
As a Ragnarok Online player this is the kind of thing that would make me quit a server. Imagine being scammed by the admin and him saying "Doesn't count, I used a different name"
Title: Re: Admin Noah (a.k.a. Peach). Untrustable.
Post by: -Una- on Apr 24, 2013, 02:18 am
I don't know this Noah person or this Reality person, but from what I am reading, the whole thing is based on trust. While Reality admits that he gave Noah his account information, it doesn't take a genius to know that if their friendship ended on a bad note, that Noah does not have permission to get on Reality's account and do as he pleases.
Admins/GMs are put in a position of trust. They have access to player account information, e-mail accounts, IP addresses, and such. Who is to say Noah would not do the same to a player on the server where he is Admin, and has access to player account information? I honestly would tend to question Noah's trust after what has happened.
As a player, I refuse to play on a server with an admin that has a questionable past. SnowBunny knows what I'm talking about. It's a game. There is no reason to do things like that. Good call to ratemyserver for adding this one to HoS.
Title: Re: Admin Noah (a.k.a. Peach). Untrustable.
Post by: krosserdog on Apr 24, 2013, 02:23 am
Quote from: Cawliflower on Apr 24, 2013, 01:55 am
Revoking this post.

She hacked a player as a Game Master (on another server she had beef with - mine). There is overwhelming proof. Everything else is speculation and a clever way to try to skew the thread in order to get this revoked.

I'm done contributing to this thread.
Woa, Cawliflower again edits his post. Well since he revokes his post when I refute his reply, then I guess you can assume my previous reply to void.

Noah didn't "hack" into a player account. If she did as a Game Master, please provide proof that she is still a Game Master and has access to the account database.

Let's define hack. Since there's no clear definition on the internet, hacking in my own definition and in this case means "having accessing to Reality's account via the server database without Reality's consent". However, in this case, not only did Reality gave her the account credentials, he also gave her permission to use it.

Quote from: Orange on Apr 24, 2013, 02:08 am
Might not be my place to comment, I've played DivRO and to me the entire thing seems sorted out by now. AFAIK Reality has gotten some stuff back and is able to continue on like nothing happened.
That's good for him.

Quote from: Orange on Apr 24, 2013, 02:08 am
Reality could of easily prevented the entire matter but he didn't, that in no way means Noah had to go and do it. It doesn't matter if you leave something on a table or strap it to your body, if someone takes it they've taken it. Noah didn't intrude on the account because it was easy, but because he's a bit of a d***.
Yes, I never said it was not wrong of Noah, but you shouldn't entirely blame Noah. If someone didn't lock their car and it get stolen, even if the thief did get caught, the owner still get part of the blame.

Quote from: Orange on Apr 24, 2013, 02:08 am
As a Ragnarok Online player this is the kind of thing that would make me quit a server. Imagine being scammed by the admin and him saying "Doesn't count, I used a different name"
Noah never scammed anyone. Though if it's in your opinion that she's a bad person, then it's your opinion.
Your example is total fallacious and unrelated to the topic.

Quote from: -Una- on Apr 24, 2013, 02:18 am
I don't know this Noah person or this Reality person, but from what I am reading, the whole thing is based on trust. While Reality admits that he gave Noah his account information, it doesn't take a genius to know that if their friendship ended on a bad note, that Noah does not have permission to get on Reality's account and do as he pleases.
Admins/GMs are put in a position of trust. They have access to player account information, e-mail accounts, IP addresses, and such. Who is to say Noah would not do the same to a player on the server where he is Admin, and has access to player account information? I honestly would tend to question Noah's trust after what has happened.
As a player, I refuse to play on a server with an admin that has a questionable past. SnowBunny knows what I'm talking about. It's a game. There is no reason to do things like that. Good call to ratemyserver for adding this one to HoS.
Well, you're right. Reality did gave Noah permission, but nonetheless, Noah did betray Reality's trust and it was wrong of her.
However, you have to calm down before actually deciding if a person is untrustworthy. I know many people who are nice to me but are mean to others people. You can't decide if a person is untrustworthy base on one source of information.
Furthermore, if you're refusing to play on pureRO, it's completely fine. I mean, personally, I would not play on eo-RO base on the HoS report of Cawliflower.
Also, Noah volunteeringly resigned as a GM since her action would affect the server.

Edit: typo
Title: Re: Admin Noah (a.k.a. Peach). Untrustable.
Post by: -Una- on Apr 24, 2013, 02:46 am
Quote from: krosserdog on Apr 24, 2013, 02:23 am
Well, you're right. Reality did gave Noah permission, but nonetheless, Noah did betray Reality's trust and it was wrong of her.
However, you have to calm down before actually deciding if a person is untrustworthy. I know many people who are nice to me but are mean to others people. You can't decide if a person is untrustworthy base on one source of information.
Furthermore, if you're refusing to play on pureRO, it's completely fine. I mean, personally, I would not play on eo-RO base on the HoS report of Cawliflower.
Also, Noah volunteeringly resigned as a GM since her action would affect the server.

Edit: typo

Oh, I think you misunderstood what I was saying. I would take a closer look before refusing to play on the server. Though, my standards are quite high, as I have played a lot of servers, and seen so much come from Admins. From an Admin raging because his girlfriend dumped him and dropping donates and customs, followed by broadcasting players passwords before quitting, to an Admin giving out player account information to get certain accounts "hacked", in the hopes that the players would quit the server. It really is quite sad, considering that it is just a game. But I know what you mean.  ;)
Title: Re: Admin Noah (a.k.a. Peach). Untrustable.
Post by: krosserdog on Apr 24, 2013, 02:57 am
Quote from: -Una- on Apr 24, 2013, 02:46 am
Oh, I think you misunderstood what I was saying. I would take a closer look before refusing to play on the server. Though, my standards are quite high, as I have played a lot of servers, and seen so much come from Admins. From an Admin raging because his girlfriend dumped him and dropping donates and customs, followed by broadcasting players passwords before quitting, to an Admin giving out player account information to get certain accounts "hacked", in the hopes that the players would quit the server. It really is quite sad, considering that it is just a game. But I know what you mean.  ;)
I think this reply seem much friendlier than the last one  /lv (I could be misunderstood again). Excuse me if I misinterpret anything, I'm from Vietnam and English isn't my first language (please no ad hominem). Moreover, I can admit that I'm not much of a seasoned RO player and I guess my standard would not be high as yours. Though, you never know what a person willing to do when they hold personal grudge  /hmm. Thanks for sharing your opinion though  /no1.
Title: Re: Admin Noah (a.k.a. Peach). Untrustable.
Post by: Reality on Apr 24, 2013, 03:00 am
krosserdog. Again. Please stay on topic. This isn't about the shared account information during our time as coworkers when I had a lot of reason to trust her. This is about her poor character, lack of judgment, and sheer spite.

This is not a blaming game so stop deflecting please. This is about trust and character, not circumstance or blame, as both have been laid out and described in full and honest detail. So stop talking about it, please.

I'm not saying that this is abusing power. It's abusing my trust and the trust of others. It's the fact that nobody like this should be given a position of authority of any sort at all. This is best classified as harassment, possibly at its worst levels. How could you possibly disagree with that?

And -Una- summed up how I believe players should feel about Noah/Peach very well.

-Reality

P.S. Additionally, from Dictionary.com

Quote
23.
hack into, Computers. to break into (a server, Web site, etc.) from a remote location to steal or damage data: Students are constantly trying to hack into their school server to change their grades.

If you are a baby sitter and the household shares their alarm system's password information, and you later decide to enter their home when they are away and steal all their electronics, it's still a break in and a breaching, as permission was not granted despite the information and ability being available. As such, this term is not incorrect considering the circumstances.
Title: Re: Admin Noah (a.k.a. Peach). Untrustable.
Post by: krosserdog on Apr 24, 2013, 03:38 am
Quote from: Reality on Apr 24, 2013, 03:00 am
krosserdog. Again. Please stay on topic. This isn't about the shared account information during our time as coworkers when I had a lot of reason to trust her. This is about her poor character, lack of judgment, and sheer spite.
Woa, you must have had a bad experience with her to judge her this much.

Quote from: Reality on Apr 24, 2013, 03:00 am
This is not a blaming game so stop deflecting please. This is about trust and character, not circumstance or blame, as both have been laid out and described in full and honest detail. So stop talking about it, please.

I'm not saying that this is abusing power. It's abusing my trust and the trust of others. It's the fact that nobody like this should be given a position of authority of any sort at all. This is best classified as harassment, possibly at its worst levels. How could you possibly disagree with that?
-Reality

P.S. Additionally, from Dictionary.com

If you are a baby sitter and the household shares their alarm system's password information, and you later decide to enter their home when they are away and steal all their electronics, it's still a break in and a breaching, as permission was not granted despite the information and ability being available. As such, this term is not incorrect considering the circumstances.
Reality, I'm not trying to say that you were dishonest or were wrong in your report. Those were very informative and has enough proof to prove what Noah did was considered low and wrong.
It is very unfortunate that she betrays your trust, I'm sorry for that.
Though if you read carefully, my intention of replying to this thread was to ask for a re-evaluation since this report is merely player to player issue, not really GM related. I just don't want Noah's reputation to crumble as an admin due to some personal issue with her acquaintances.

The term hacking is not correct in this example because:
1. She didn't steal the data; you gave it to her.
2. She didn't break into divRO's server. If she did, please provide evidence.

As of your example, you're forgetting one detail. In your case, you and Noah had conflict and disagreement, thus I assume that you guys must have not like each other and you guy have not been in contact for quite some times. In your example, the household didn't have any conflict with the babysitter and you don't know if they grant permission or not, (however since it was to link with your case let's assume that they did). Since they grant the babysitter permission and never had any conflict with her/him, it would be a big issue since at this point, the family has wholeheartedly trust the babysitter. On the other hand, in your case, due to your conflict with Noah, I can assume that you can't possibly trust each other wholeheartedly and rather be each other's enemy. So it was your responsibility to take precaution to your property.
Also, you never address my point of failing to protect your account.
Title: Re: Admin Noah (a.k.a. Peach). Untrustable.
Post by: Reality on Apr 24, 2013, 04:10 am
Quote from: krosserdog on Apr 24, 2013, 03:38 am
The term hacking is not correct in this example because:
1. She didn't steal the data; you gave it to her.
2. She didn't break into divRO's server. If she did, please provide evidence.

This is exactly the case in the example...

-Reality

Edit: Also I did not address your point on my account security because you never made a valid one that I have not already addressed.
Title: Re: Admin Noah (a.k.a. Peach). Untrustable.
Post by: Cawliflower on Apr 24, 2013, 05:26 am
You don't have to define "hack," Encyclopedia Britannica. We were using the term loosely in the definition of unauthorized access to an account. Peach accessed his account using a password that wasn't hers to use and dropped items/used profanity over broadcast/acted a fool. You're missing the point completely, krosser. Just stop trying to defend bad behavior, and move on.

Have a nice day.
Title: Re: Admin Noah (a.k.a. Peach). Untrustable.
Post by: krosserdog on Apr 24, 2013, 05:36 am
Before anything, please note that I am not trying to justify Noah's action of logging into Reality account. I merely demand and trying to justify why Noah didn't deserve to be on the GM HoS.

Quote from: Reality on Apr 24, 2013, 04:10 am
This is exactly the case in the example...

-Reality

Edit: Also I did not address your point on my account security because you never made a valid one that I have not already addressed.

Please explain and provide evidence on why do you think she "hack" your account.
You clearly said you grant her permission to use it, which can also mean you gave her your account credentials.
Quote from: Reality on Apr 21, 2013, 08:24 pm
I would like to admit that I did in fact grant permission to Peach to log into my accounts, a little less than a year ago, to help me test something.
-Reality

Rather than did not addressing my point, you're using a straw man example to dodge my point.
Reality fails to protect his own account by giving out his credentials to Noah. After conflict and disagreement, these two, Noah and Reality, partway and have not been in contact. Reality, at this point, should already change his password; however, due to unknown reason, he didn't and thus got his account sabotaged by Noah.
My point: Though it was very wrong of Noah to do such thing, it was also part of Reality's fault for not protecting this account.
My example: If you didn't lock your car and it get stolen, even if the thief did get caught, it was also your OWN fault for not locking it.
If you did lock your car, but the thief somehow manage to break in, then it's entirely the thief fault in this case.
Reality fails to protect his own account, thus it was also part of his fault.

Quote from: Cawliflower on Apr 24, 2013, 05:26 am
Let's be honest, krosser is way to "in the know" on Reality and Peach to be just an innocent player trying to defend a "nice GM."

You don't have to define "hack," Encyclopedia Britannica. We were using the term loosely in the definition of unauthorized access to an account. Peach accessed his account using a password that wasn't hers to use and dropped items/used profanity over broadcast/acted a fool. You're missing the point completely, krosser. Just stop trying to defend bad behavior, and move on.

Have a nice day.

This is really what we're REALLY dealing with, in my honest opinion. (http://i47.tinypic.com/2zf8u0z.jpg) I don't understand why this person is persisting to try to logically explain why Peach shouldn't be on the HoS. If it was up to krosser, we'd award Peach with a medal because she went the extra mile to defile Reality's account out of spite.
Cawliflower is rather being fallacious here. I'm not trying to justify Peach action, rather I'm trying to say what Peach did is unrelated to her work as a GM.
Unauthorized? Reality clearly said he granted her permission.
Also, thanks for admitting that I am trying to "logically explain" why Peach shouldn't be on the HoS.
Your last sentence is irrelevant and apparently trying to redirect my point. I constantly state that Peach action was petty and low but apparently someone didn't get the memo.

Restating my overall point:
1) This thread is merely player to player report, no GM-related issue, thus Noah should not be on the GM HoS.
2) Even if the mod decided that Noah should still be on the HoS, please change the reason why Noah was put up there since she didn't "hack" into Reality account.
3) Noah is not a bad GM.

Supporting arguments:
1) The argument that I keep seeing mainly is that since Noah, as a player, betrays Reality's trust, she will most likely do the same thing as an admin.
This argument is not necessarily true for the following reason: Noah had a personal conflict with Reality, thus this was her act of vengeance on him. Otherwise, she would not do it to an unknown player or someone who she has no problem with. In fact, no normal person in real life would be nice to everyone, even the nicest person you know still be mean to his/her enemy. So as a conclusion, Noah, as a GM, shouldn't be quickly judge as an untrustworthy person just because of one action against Reality, who is happen to be a person she does not like.
2) She didn't hack into Reality account because Reality gave her the account credentials and even grant her permission to use it. After their personal conflict, Reality didn't change his password due to unknown reason and fail to protect his own account.
3) Beside from this report of betraying Reality's trust, there were no other report of Noah being a bad GM. Furthermore, because of this report, Noah resigned as a GM in order to save the server reputation and I think it was very self-sacrifice of her to do that.

In conclusion, this case is merely player to player report. Noah, as a GM, doesn't deserve to be on the HoS just because of a player to player personal grudge.
I hereby wish to ask a mod or someone with authority to re-evaluate this case and give comments on such matter, rather than Reality or Cawliflower who keep claiming my point to be irrelevant or redirecting my point.
Thanks.
Title: Re: Admin Noah (a.k.a. Peach). Untrustable.
Post by: Cawliflower on Apr 24, 2013, 05:38 am
No. The HoS isn't specific to the server you're a staff member on. That's not how it works. She misrepresented herself and tried to hide it as she's "Noah." Because she got caught doing this ridiculous action, she is now listed.

You're wrong. Stop trying to defend her. You're done. Nobody cares about their backstory.
Title: Re: Admin Noah (a.k.a. Peach). Untrustable.
Post by: krosserdog on Apr 24, 2013, 05:46 am
Quote from: Cawliflower on Apr 24, 2013, 05:38 am
No. The HoS isn't specific to the server you're a staff member on. That's not how it works. She misrepresented herself and tried to hide it as she's "Noah." Because she got caught doing this ridiculous action, she is now listed.

You're wrong. Stop trying to defend her. You're done. Nobody cares about their backstory.
Wrong is too subjective. You never successfully refute my point and here you are claiming my point to be wrong. It's like I'm playing a chess with pigeon here.
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=pigeon%20chess (http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=pigeon%20chess)

Also, how is "The HoS isn't specific to the server you're a staff member on" relate to my point? My point is that this is a player to player issues, not GM related.
"She misrepresented herself and tried to hide it as she's "Noah."
She's not trying to hide her identity. Stop using falsify information to degrade her image. Unlike someone, I believe she would admit her identity if ask.

And yes, I'm done. Done with answering Cawliflower's reply. Would be really nice if someone with authority or a 3rd party give their opinions on the matter.
Title: Re: Admin Noah (a.k.a. Peach). Untrustable.
Post by: Cawliflower on Apr 24, 2013, 05:50 am
Quote from: krosserdog on Apr 24, 2013, 05:46 am
Wrong is too subjective. You never successfully refute my point and here you are claiming my point to be wrong. It's like I'm playing a chess with pigeon here.
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=pigeon%20chess (http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=pigeon%20chess)

Also, how is "The HoS isn't specific to the server you're a staff member on" relate to my point? My point is that this is a player to player issues, not GM related.
"She misrepresented herself and tried to hide it as she's "Noah."
She's not trying to hide her identity. Stop using falsify information to degrade her image. Unlike someone, I believe she would admit her identity if ask.

And yes, I'm done. Done with answering Cawliflower's reply. Would be really nice if someone with authority or a 3rd party give their opinions on the matter.
Xarale already has done that. :)

No, it is a GM related issue because she went on my server and defiled it and publicly posted vulgarities on a megaphone while hacking Reality's account.

Obviously, she did try to hide her image. There's no reason to change your GM names on a new server. The reason was because their last two have completely flopped. Quit trying, bro. I know far more than you do about these people.
Title: Re: Admin Noah (a.k.a. Peach). Untrustable.
Post by: Xarale on Apr 24, 2013, 06:06 am
Just to add this in here, although it's been mentioned by others already;
The GM Hall of Shame isn't purely about corruption alone, or misuse of GM powers, or even specific to the server they're a part of.  Look around it, there's many examples of other shameful acts, which is what the GM Hall of Shame is about.  Naming and shaming RO private server GM/Admins who commit such shameful acts. (I'll admit, I could maybe update the description a bit better to clarify this)

Looking at this case, and the arguments provided from both sides, I still see the act itself as being rather shameful & deserving of a spot in our GM HoS.  Sure they didn't misuse GM powers to log into Reality's account, but they hold the position of an RO server admin, and they chose to go ahead with this act.  I'm aware that Reality gave her his account information a while back and that he's partly to blame, but that still doesn't excuse her for what she did.  It's a serious breach of trust, and I'm sure other players would be most interested to know what sort of person their admin is when playing on their server.  I'm not saying she's a bad person, infact I've spoken to her before and she seemed rather polite & well-spoken.  That still doesn't change what she did, I'm sure even she knows she did wrong here. 
At the end of the day, she risked her reputation as a server admin to go ahead with this shameful act of revenge, and she got caught.

@krosserdog - I commend you for standing up and defending Noah, and you do raise a few good points.  I've made a slight edit to the reasoning for her HoS entry based on your points, but I won't be removing her from it.

Despite what happened, I wish both Noah and her server luck with the future.

-X.

Note: Unless something new is bought to the table, I'll soon be locking this thread up, as I'm seeing very little point of seeing the same points bought up from both sides over and over again.
Title: Re: Admin Noah (a.k.a. Peach). Untrustable.
Post by: krosserdog on Apr 24, 2013, 06:11 am
Well, that's come to an end. At least I tried. Thx Xarale for hearing me out and state your opinion. Appreciated.
Title: Re: Admin Noah (a.k.a. Peach). Untrustable.
Post by: Cawliflower on Apr 24, 2013, 06:17 am
Quote from: Xarale on Apr 24, 2013, 06:06 am
Just to add this in here, although it's been mentioned by others already;
The GM Hall of Shame isn't purely about corruption alone, or misuse of GM powers, or even specific to the server they're a part of.  Look around it, there's many examples of other shameful acts, which is what the GM Hall of Shame is about.  Naming and shaming RO private server GM/Admins who commit such shameful acts. (I'll admit, I could maybe update the description a bit better to clarify this)

Looking at this case, and the arguments provided from both sides, I still see the act itself as being rather shameful & deserving of a spot in our GM HoS.  Sure they didn't misuse GM powers to log into Reality's account, but they hold the position of an RO server admin, and they chose to go ahead with this act.  I'm aware that Reality gave her his account information a while back and that he's partly to blame, but that still doesn't excuse her for what she did.  It's a serious breach of trust, and I'm sure other players would be most interested to know what sort of person their admin is when playing on their server.  I'm not saying she's a bad person, infact I've spoken to her before and she seemed rather polite & well-spoken.  That still doesn't change what she did, I'm sure even she knows she did wrong here. 
At the end of the day, she risked her reputation as a server admin to go ahead with this shameful act of revenge, and she got caught.

@krosserdog - I commend you for standing up and defending Noah, and you do raise a few good points.  I've made a slight edit to the reasoning for her HoS entry based on your points, but I won't be removing her from it.

Despite what happened, I wish both Noah and her server luck with the future.

-X.

Note: Unless something new is bought to the table, I'll soon be locking this thread up, as I'm seeing very little point of seeing the same points bought up from both sides over and over again.
I agree with this completely. There's many things I did on my many HoS entries that didn't directly involve being on a GM account/staff alias. I screwed up, and as a public figure in the RO community I was put on blast in the Rant & Rave then being moved to HoS. Life goes on, I grew up, and looking back it's a lesson learned.
Title: Re: Admin Noah (a.k.a. Peach). Untrustable.
Post by: Triper on Apr 24, 2013, 12:23 pm
Since everything seems clarified, I think the request I got through PM is OK to be pulled/applied now.

I will just add a small group of notes to future readers not be induced by some of the topics being discussed here in case you read in the diagonal:
(click to show/hide)
So, for future readers who may think this was a Pure-RO vs DivRO/eoRO epic fight, it wasn't. It was just a bad judgement of a person that, in a way or another, admitted it.
If Pure-RO is still a good place to play even after this, is up to you to readers/players. Go there, check it and do your own judge. Don't judge everything based on just one action as much as it may look bad, everybody learns from mistakes and the person into question isn't there anymore, anyway.

(http://i.imgur.com/ZTmv57N.png)