Double Dagger Details

Started by mahawirasd, Nov 08, 2009, 10:08 PM

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I'm a curious person, i just wanna know how double daggers really work...
Not just regarding damage, but also status cards.
Please enlighten me.

1. how is damage really calculated?
ATK from str?
R-hand base weapon damage? R-hand upgrade value damage?
L-hand base weapon damage? L-hand upgrade value damage?
+ ATK cards on R hand?
+ ATK cards on L hand?
+ % ATK cards on R hand?
+ % ATK cards on L hand?
what happens in combination with skills? is all the above included than multiplied by skill value (2x for double attack, +1000% for venom splasher, etc?)

2. what about status cards? which take effect? those in R hand? those in L hand? all of the above?

that's all i can think of now, will probably have more later.

Thanks lots, sorry if it turns out i did not search thoroughly enough or with the correct keywords... (i did "double dagger" and "double dagger damage" as well as "double dagger status")



ATK from STR
but don't forget to + (DEX/5) + (LUK/5) The total of this is base ATK

R-L Base weapon atk (R-L, just means you calculate it for both seperately)
rnd(min(DEX*(0.8+0.2*WeaponLevel),ATK), ATK)
rnd = random, starts from atk value of your minDEX (I believe it's (DEX/5), then afterwards you calc (DEX*(0.8+0.2*WeaponLevel),ATK) as your 'max')

upgrade bonus is added to BaseATK (atk from STR, DEX and LUK) <-- also calculate this separately per weapon.

+ ATK cards on R-L?
+ATK Cards are added after you calculate base ATK, simply by doing + ATK from cards, then comes baseATK. also.. separately

after you calculate (base ATK) ..add up + with (Base Weaponatk) then multiply *with Sizemods

Skills treat dual wielding different depending on what skill, for venomsplasher... I believe left-hand damage does not add another 1000%, but rather the atk cards.. it also ignores left hand weaponATK.

all status cards are factored in for melee hits / skills that carry status, for example 8 marinas = 40%.


<3 you...

hmm the skill bit is giving me a headache, but i guess meh better skip that bit as it will probably be too skill-specific and extraneous...

ok, so if you could please bear with me a bit more...
looking at where the brackets are regarding the random damage from the weapon attacks:
rnd(min(DEX*(0.8+0.2*WeaponLevel),ATK), ATK)
i'm not sure how they are really calculated... why are there 2 "ATK" there? perhaps you could help me with the following:

let's say a sin has a total of 100 STR, 50 DEX, and 0 LUK
so Base ATK from stats = 100 + (100/10)^2 + 50/5 = 100 + 100 + 10 = 210
full right hand and left hand mastery

the target is a Poring 0 def, 1 vit. Small, plant, water.

A. the sin is using two +10 [quad scorpion] MGs; 43 ATK, lv 1 weapon
R weapon damage:
isn't it: rnd(min(50*(0.8+0.2*1),43),43) = rnd(min(50*1,43),43) = rnd(min(50,43),43) where the "min" takes the minimum value between the values "50" or "43" so that it becomes rnd(43,43) where if there was any difference it would produce a random number between the two values?
because if i read your description, it would be: rnd(((50/10)*(0.8+0.2*1),43),43) = rnd((5*1,43),43) = rnd(5,43) thus producing a very wide range even though 50 dex is moderately high... even worse still, if the sin had 100 dex, it would still only amount to rnd(10,43)... still a very big range...

let's say (for simplicity's sake) that since the sin's dex is high enough, the rnd value is (43,43) thus always producing 43 ATK + 20 (upgrade)
so the L weapon would also deal 80%*43 damage = 34,4 damage + 20 (upgrade)

dagger is 100% against small and the sin is not using any +ATK cards

so now it becomes (210 + 63 + 54,4)*100% = 327,7
with 8 scorp cards it becomes 260%*327,7 = 852,02

am i right this far?

B. the sin is using a +10 [quad scorp] MG and +10 [quad drainliar] MG
assuming i was right on the above, it should be the same damage output before the cards (327,7)
but how do i calculate the damage after the cards?
does it still become 260%? or 180%*180%?




I made a little mistake about min,max weapon ATK.

your 'min' is (DEX*(0.8+0.2*WeaponLevel)) the 'max' is the actual weapon ATK.

for example, I've got an infiltrator[1]
Weapon level = 4
Weapon attack = 140

Your SinX has 50 dex.. so my 'min' becomes

rnd(min(DEX*(0.8+0.2*WeaponLevel),ATK), ATK)

(50*(0.8+0.2*4),ATK = 80 ATK

Infil = 140 so rnd(80,140)

also, let's say I've got a falchion[4]
Weapon level = 1
Weapon attack = 39

(50*(0.8+0.2*1),ATK = 70
But my weapon attack is only 39 so the rnd becomes rnd(70,39) ... that however is not possible so it automatically switches to the lowest 'x,y.' y number, my rnd becomes rnd(39,39).. this also explains why damage sometimes does not fluctuate, it simply means that the rnd max atk is lower than the rnd min atk.

hope that helps

oh yeah, about b.
same modifiers ADD up, like 2 hydras = not 1.2 * 1.2 but 1.4 (you should know this =P)
quad scorp in left hand and quad drainliar in right hand would be 1.8 * 1.8! on a poring..


yeah, thus i automatically went to 260% for that 8-same-cards situation...

wow so 4 and 4 makes 1.8^2! wow that's nice...

and your explanation of that situation makes perfect sense to me, very much what i anticipated in my previous post. Thanks for that...

ok, to sum it up, will the best dual dagger situation (restricting to "pure" weapons -i.e. weapons that are of optimal upgrade value and slotted with the same cards) be +10 [4 race] MG and +10 [4 element or 4 size] MG or +8 [3 size] Mes with +10 [4 race or 4 element] MG or some other combination?



It all depends on what you're facing.. and what cards are available.

VS a poring, you have..
Drainliar 20% more on water
Scorpion 20% more on plant
Skeleton worker 15% more on medium..

if they can only be slotted with the same cards (why though?)
then obviously the best is 1.8 * 1.8..(4 drainliar and 4 scorpion) since drainliar = 20% and scorp = 20%.
1.8 * 1.8 = 3.24

It's better to have a different combination though, such as:

4 drain 3 scorp 1 skel =
1.8 * 1.6 * 1.15 = 3.312


3 drain 3 scorp 2 skel =
1.6 * 1.6 * 1.3 = 3.328

again, it doesn't matter where the cards in your weapon are.


thanks for the added detail...
but as you probably know i like "pure" weapons, so yeah 3.24 is good enough for me.... a difference of 0.088 is next to negligible for me...
i don't have any experience with EDP though, so perhaps those who use EDP or has more than 130 base STR might consider 0.088 a big deal...