Overpowered

[AlviN]

ADMIN is UBER POWERED! 

[Guest]

>.> watch the spam posts please

[Slaw]

Arch Bishop Hibrahm card: 10% more matk and 50% more magic damage on demihumans in a non strippable, non breakable gear slot is Beyond Overpowered.

EDP: 400% more damage with all melee attacks and some skills on a class that has plenty of strong attacks already and some very strong poisons, which also has the third highest HP mod in the game. IMBA!!!

Assassin Cross Soul Link:  2x sonic blow damage on a class that has EDP?  GEE GRAVITY, Thanks!

Golden Thief Bug card:  While it does remove your thara, is strippable and is often nerfed on most servers or even made unavailable, the ability to shutdown the damage and debuffs of every single Magic based player is Overpowered. 

I'm sorry, but I really can't agree with you at all there.

Arch Bishop: Freakin' MVP card. They're about as overpowered as megingjards. Major boost? Yes, but how many will actually aquire one on a decent server? A couple of players per thousand actives? It's not like it's balance breaking, at least not more than Ghostring/Angeling/Deviling, which we can all agree on not being overpowered.

EDP: The work put into hunting those damned bottles makes me consider just skipping the skill completely. Sure, if you have one hell of alot of time you can stock up on these babies and kill almost every player you run into (Except good profs, pallies, LKs, whitesmiths, creators and high priests). But seriously, the time it takes to actually get a decent stock of potions for the skill pretty much nullifies any "overpowered" claim around. We don't go around calling Acid Demo overpowered, do we?

SinX Soul Link: +100% Sonic Blow damage. This is horrible. Truly horrible. I know for a fact that you can outtank a linked EDP-SB SinX with a damn 40 vit professor without any difficulties at all. Sure, it's good for PvM, or for that extra damage to kill level 8x players with your 99 SinX. But c'mon, there are way better soul links out there. Priest soul link turns your full support vit/int High Priest into a PvP monster, and Rogue soul link gives your stalker +16 str, dispell immunity and a healing boost.

GTB: Boring as hell if you're a caster, yes. But as I see it, RO's sort of an overworked version of Rock-paper-scissors. Throw on a GTB and be instant dead meat as soon as you run into any high-damage non-caster. I'd rather use a thara than a GTB any day.

So far, the only overpowered non-custom item I've seen is the 10% coma book. Whoever designed it couldn't have been thinking very much at all.

[Loki]

you say "Overpowered" when you cant beat that person

(well i do Cry)

also, the idea of edp being overpowered makes me cringe, as a big fan of that skill, because it rocks... I do think it is overpowered on a server with max level over 99/70 though. Because typically, sinx don't have buckets of dex, so first they have to hunt the stupid items to make the poison bottles and fail a lot of the time because of low dex, and then the stupid bottle only lasts a minute... but a server where sinx can have buckets of dex without compromising other stats, or a server where there's a freaking npc selling them makes the skill overpowered.

Reset Npc :B

Seriously, they hunt, reset stats so that they have max dex and whatever else is needed for making a bottle. Gets a HP and buff them to oblivion. Make bottles. I say they get at least 7 out of 10 tries...

[fluidin]

Arch Bishop Hibrahm card: 10% more matk and 50% more magic damage on demihumans in a non strippable, non breakable gear slot is Beyond Overpowered.

EDP: 400% more damage with all melee attacks and some skills on a class that has plenty of strong attacks already and some very strong poisons, which also has the third highest HP mod in the game. IMBA!!!

Assassin Cross Soul Link:  2x sonic blow damage on a class that has EDP?  GEE GRAVITY, Thanks!

Golden Thief Bug card:  While it does remove your thara, is strippable and is often nerfed on most servers or even made unavailable, the ability to shutdown the damage and debuffs of every single Magic based player is Overpowered. 

I'm sorry, but I really can't agree with you at all there.

Arch Bishop: Freakin' MVP card. They're about as overpowered as megingjards. Major boost? Yes, but how many will actually aquire one on a decent server? A couple of players per thousand actives? It's not like it's balance breaking, at least not more than Ghostring/Angeling/Deviling, which we can all agree on not being overpowered.

EDP: The work put into hunting those damned bottles makes me consider just skipping the skill completely. Sure, if you have one hell of alot of time you can stock up on these babies and kill almost every player you run into (Except good profs, pallies, LKs, whitesmiths, creators and high priests). But seriously, the time it takes to actually get a decent stock of potions for the skill pretty much nullifies any "overpowered" claim around. We don't go around calling Acid Demo overpowered, do we?

SinX Soul Link: +100% Sonic Blow damage. This is horrible. Truly horrible. I know for a fact that you can outtank a linked EDP-SB SinX with a damn 40 vit professor without any difficulties at all. Sure, it's good for PvM, or for that extra damage to kill level 8x players with your 99 SinX. But c'mon, there are way better soul links out there. Priest soul link turns your full support vit/int High Priest into a PvP monster, and Rogue soul link gives your stalker +16 str, dispell immunity and a healing boost.

GTB: Boring as hell if you're a caster, yes. But as I see it, RO's sort of an overworked version of Rock-paper-scissors. Throw on a GTB and be instant dead meat as soon as you run into any high-damage non-caster. I'd rather use a thara than a GTB any day.

So far, the only overpowered non-custom item I've seen is the 10% coma book. Whoever designed it couldn't have been thinking very much at all.

What you say is pretty much true. However, I can't help but feel that it is still flawed logic. Just because they put in a larger amount of effort, they are entitled to the potential pwnage that comes with it?

Is this not unfair to the players who do not like to play SinXs and Creators for example, and yet are ready to put in an equal amount of effort to make their...say...Clown as 'overpowered'? However, due to game constraints, they are not able to do so! Are you saying that anyone who are ready to make that kind of effort should either play a SinX/Creator/Champ? That if they choose not to do so, they should be stuck with it?

If you could make every class have a skill that is equivalent to EDP, and require players to put in a similar amount of effort, then EDP would not be overpowered, of course.

Anyway, overpowered should not be the term used in my context. It should be 'potentially groundbreaking' or such.

BTW, I agree on the point of view on God items and MVP cards. They are, at least, far and few in between, and in WoE, either to go up against guilds that possesses players with MVP cards or God items, or to have them in your own guild, adds to the unrivalled experience that is WoE.

But, they are able to be taken advantage of by most of the classes, and not restricted as AD and EDP are, in a sense. EDP is so 'groundbreaking', that in every server you will find the majority of players are noobs who play SinXs :/

[Speedwrath]

Reflect Gear > EDP

Anyways, overpowered is something that gives a certain element of a group a relatively greater advantage beyond the others, thus making things unfair for the other elements in the group.

I think a basic rule to see if something is overpowered or not, is to ask if it has a counter that can be obtainable by SOME classes. And by this, I mean that more than just ONE class out of 15 will be able to deal with it.So

[superja]

Reset Npc :B

So it's not EDP itself that is overpowered, it's the fact that players can magically change their stats at endgame as many times as the want. The way it is in the REAL game, EDP isn't overpowered... since sinx usually have extremely low dex (crit+agi), and if they do have high dex (sbk) they probably won't be using edp because it's for melee.

And if they're a special build with buckets of dex for making bottles, then good on them for actually leveling a hard to level build... it's the same as doing a pure potter or forger. Having a skill like that should be your reward for slaving away with less-than-optimal stats.

[Slaw]

What you say is pretty much true. However, I can't help but feel that it is still flawed logic. Just because they put in a larger amount of effort, they are entitled to the potential pwnage that comes with it?

Is this not unfair to the players who do not like to play SinXs and Creators for example, and yet are ready to put in an equal amount of effort to make their...say...Clown as 'overpowered'? However, due to game constraints, they are not able to do so! Are you saying that anyone who are ready to make that kind of effort should either play a SinX/Creator/Champ? That if they choose not to do so, they should be stuck with it?

Uh, all classes have the potential to become "overpowered" in a sense. Okay, maybe you won't be dealing as much damage with one hit as a pure asura champ, and it's hard to match EDP-SB's damage as well. But (almost) all classes have their own way of owning.

Whitesmith: A well-built whitesmith hammering Cart Revos at you is pretty much unstoppable. Combine that with tanking ability and insane movement speed.
Professor: Bolter profs. They hurt. Alot. Any low-mdef char will die in a few seconds. FS profs are a bit no-no in my book, but that's just personal preference, I admit they can be useful as well, even though I'd never play one.
High wizard: Everyone hates precasts. Sure, they're kinda crappy in normal PvP situations, but show me one good WoE guild without a decent base of HW's.
Lord Knight: I hate lord knights. I'm sure they can be good, but I've never met a decent lord knight in my entire time of playing this damned game. This class is the whole reason I put the (almost) up there.
Paladin: Paladins are pain. Can't be killed (except by suicidal asura champs sacrificing themselves in the process), deals decent damage and has a bunch of good supportive abilities.
Sniper: Traps. Other than that they're pretty useless. But traps are good.
Clown/Gypsy: You seem to think you should be able to match the solo ownage of SinX/Creator/Champ with any class, but this one (among a few others) is meant to be played as a support. You cannot say their sp/castdelay reducing skills aren't good. Same with the no-skills one. And so on.
Stalker: Bowling Bash str/vit stalker with link is among the most annoying enemies I've ever fought. I'm still not sure how to counter them without using soul burn.
High priest: Immortal. Ressurection. Heal. Agi/bless. Kyrie, and so on...

If you could make every class have a skill that is equivalent to EDP, and require players to put in a similar amount of effort, then EDP would not be overpowered, of course.

If you made every class have a skill like EDP, assassins would be useless. It's the one thing that makes 'em any good right now. I mean, c'mon, Soul Breaker's a joke. So's most poison skills. Their one way of being useful is by dishing out alot of damage in short periods of time. They can't even take a beating.

BTW, I agree on the point of view on God items and MVP cards. They are, at least, far and few in between, and in WoE, either to go up against guilds that possesses players with MVP cards or God items, or to have them in your own guild, adds to the unrivalled experience that is WoE.

Yep.

But, they are able to be taken advantage of by most of the classes, and not restricted as AD and EDP are, in a sense. EDP is so 'groundbreaking', that in every server you will find the majority of players are noobs who play SinXs :/

Yes, EDP-SB noobs are annoying. But so are FA snipers, divest stalkers, and pure asura champs. All "noob" builds if you ask me. Doesn't change the fact that they're easy to counter though.

Any char with decent vit can survive one EDP-SB. Any char with decent damage output can kill the SinX before he gets to hit you again, or heal up, or do anything else to prevent him from killing you (aspersio his weapons, safety wall, soul burn, stone curse, knockback moves, silence...). My old full-DPS bolter professor (level 90) with crappy gears (basic +6/+7s with the normal assortment of ray, thara, and so on) could easily deal with any EDP-SB SinX without support. My prof had 40 vit. If a 40 vit caster can handle EDP-SB's damage, pretty much any other class can as well.

[fluidin]

Any char with decent vit can survive one EDP-SB. Any char with decent damage output can kill the SinX before he gets to hit you again, or heal up, or do anything else to prevent him from killing you (aspersio his weapons, safety wall, soul burn, stone curse, knockback moves, silence...). My old full-DPS bolter professor (level 90) with crappy gears (basic +6/+7s with the normal assortment of ray, thara, and so on) could easily deal with any EDP-SB SinX without support. My prof had 40 vit. If a 40 vit caster can handle EDP-SB's damage, pretty much any other class can as well.

Err. A decent SinX can easily overcome them. Switch weapons and cloak before Sb-ing. SW? Grim. Soul Burn? Burn pots. Stone Curse? ED armour. Silence? Switching between Marduk and whatnot. You see, a SinX isn't supposed to be uncloaked just before the instant he/she Sonic blows, so unless you have MP card...

And, you could handle SinXs because they had low damage output. You have obviously never dealed with decent SinXs before. 130 str, Soul Link, Alice Doll, Masq, Aliot/Whisperboss, +7 BR/+10 Boned Infi, Shackles + Bloody Iron Ball, etc. Ok, so the +10 slotted infi is non obtainable in low drop rate/non custom drop rate servers. However, with those eqs and a +7 BR, trust me, a SinX will be able to 1hko you, unless you were a full vit Pala/LK/Prof.

By the way, to clarify on the 'every class should have an equivalent of EDP', I meant not only in terms of damage. For example, an improved Gospel for Palas, an improved Poem of Bragi for Clowns, etc. (Which would have the same WTF factor as EDP). And a high priest is definitely NOT immortal. You have just never seen gayass AD spam before.

Also, I'll show you a decent WoE guild w/o a team of Hwizzies.

http://www.vimeo.com/1242942 Feel free to look through my guildy's other WoE vids. Enjoy~

EDIT: Ah, forgot to mention this. No, the video is NOT sped up. You're seeing something that can be done under official server circumstances and restrictions. Figure the builds and buffs out yourself

[Slaw]

Err. A decent SinX can easily overcome them. Switch weapons and cloak before Sb-ing. SW? Grim. Soul Burn? Burn pots. Stone Curse? ED armour. Silence? Switching between Marduk and whatnot. You see, a SinX isn't supposed to be uncloaked just before the instant he/she Sonic blows, so unless you have MP card...

And, you could handle SinXs because they had low damage output. You have obviously never dealed with decent SinXs before. 130 str, Soul Link, Alice Doll, Masq, Aliot/Whisperboss, +7 BR/+10 Boned Infi, Shackles + Bloody Iron Ball, etc. Ok, so the +10 slotted infi is non obtainable in low drop rate/non custom drop rate servers. However, with those eqs and a +7 BR, trust me, a SinX will be able to 1hko you, unless you were a full vit Pala/LK/Prof.

I doubt every SinX I've ever met have been bad at their class. If you consider those gears standard on a "decent" SinX, you have to throw in the same stuff on the guy fighting them to make it fair in this scenario. With a +10 Boned Infil, you might as well throw in a maya purple, or any other miniboss card, on the guy fighting the SinX. Sure, a SinX can swap their weapons and armors to avoid status effects and crap, and spam pots if they want to, but as I said earlier, RO's an overworked version of rock-paper-scissors. Of course they can counter your counter. But then you counter their counter-counter. See where I'm goin' with this?

Fact still is that if the SinX doesn't kill you in one hit he's dead meat. Unless you play way too defensive. And surviving one EDP-SB is not a problem.

Simple calc gives me about 40k damage with an EDP-SB (without reductions). Now, I just threw some numbers into the calc, so it may be off by a bit. Anyway, see if you follow me here.

Thara card: 30% damage reduction. 28k damage left.
Energy coat: 30% damage reduction. 19600 damage left.
Elemental resist garment: 15% damage reduction (being nice here, might be 30%). 16600 damage left.
Feather beret: 10% damage reduction: 14940 damage left.
Def 40 (Shouldn't be a problem for any class). 8964 damage left.

My basic professor build would have...

95 int (105 with bless)
80 vit
115 dex (125 with bless)

And this would land him at... 11308hp. He survived. Against a +10 boned infil.

Of course, the SinX could be soul linked. But then prof could have assumptio, could stand in a safety wall, and so on. This comparision's a 1v1, nothing more, nothing less. After the SinX's done with his SB, he'd get soul burned (if he uses potions, so does the prof, meaning the prof'll have full HP every time a new EDP-SB shows up. The prof has about 30% chance to die, due to soul burn backfiring, but that's the only problem I can see.

Of course, a real PvP duel wouldn't look like this (Tons of people interfering, someone lagging, and so on), but that doesn't really matter. Point is an EDP-SB can easily be survived.

[fluidin]

+7 BR >>> +10 Boned Infi on an enemy with decent DEF. Those gears might not be standard in a LR 99/70, I agree.

However, lets see. A SinX with those gears (BR, not Infi) and Soul Link, EDPs a Prof with 80 vit, 60 DEF (nullified by BR), FB, CK, Raydric, Thara Frog. Fact is, the proffy will still die in one, or at the very most 2, Sonic Blows. Why? Because no one can pot that fast. Lets say one SB and 80% of his HP is gone, he starts potting, and by the time the next SB lands, he is at 70% Hp. GG

And can we not use a Prof for this example. A prof is one of those classes that are really difficult to kill, even for a SinX... Web, dispel, and SC if the SinX was stupid enough to not be wearing ED. If wearing ED, start spamming Ygg leaves on him. LOL >.> Such a scenario would boil down to reflexes, timing and personal skills.

BTW, I'm telling you, a SinX is able to counter almost any counter-counters, or counter-nth counters any class other then a prof, or pala, can throw at it. That's the beauty of SinX.

EDIT: How the s*** do you want to counter a 1hko skill that comes out of cloaking status, which is what I'm proposing here? Granted, there are ways, but they are FAR too few.

Fact is, it all depends on the availibility of equips in your server. If what I proposed (Alice Doll, Bloody Iron Ball, +7 BR) are relatively obtainable, then SinXs will own. No, they are not equivalent to a MP card. The prof can have his CK, FB, whatever. He will still die.

[Slaw]

If you say so. I've said what I think, you're not going to change your mind, and neither am I. SinXes are crap for anything but killing weaklings and breaking emps IMO. If you disagree, that's your chocie.

Still, they're no way near overpowered. Only class that can be considered remotely overpowered is creator. Not due to them being too strong, but because they're too easy to level (homunculi).

[Winnin813]

EDP instantly comes to mind.

Beat me to it.

[83 4 u]

overpowered = god items (e. g. +10 Ghost Mink Coat, +10 Lord Kahos Horn, etc.)

assassin cross will be one example of overpowered characters....

[fluidin]

+10 Ghost Mink Coat is not overpowered -.-

Lord Kaho's is.