Difference between pre renewal and renewal RO

[varial88]

Hi there...
What are the differences between these two types of game mechanic?
and i saw some servers running renewal system but with pre renewal calculation/mechanic. How does these two different things mixed up?

[Playtester]

Pre-renewal:
- no 3rd classes
- no exp/drop penalties when killing monsters above or below your level
- stronger monsters are more rewarding
- skills only have variable cast time, 150 dex = instant cast
- exp share range 10 levels, game mechanics encourage partying

Renewal:
- 3rd classes, the way how stats work was adjusted so it works with 3rd classes, max stat is 120 instead of 99
- exp/drop penalties for killing monsters above or below your level
- stronger monsters are less rewarding, only reason to kill them is because of the exp/drop penalty
- skills have a variable and fixed cast time, you need a lot more int/dex to remove the variable cast time, no instant cast possible
- exp share range 15 levels, game mechanics encourage solo play (despite 10% exp bonus per party member more than 2)

[Fruit Pie~]

Allow me my own take on this :

Pre-renewal is "classic" RO. Stats work exponentially, monsters have fixed EXP rates (so you can kill a Kasa, one of the strongest mobs in the game, as a solo Archer with an off-party tank, and gain like 30 levels in one go), bosses in general are terribly designed and require bug exploits or an entire guild to take down, soloing is far more efficient than partying because of EXP penalties, the fact you can teleport around without a party member to lug around and the fact that only one class (Crusader/Paladin) has any real party synergy.

Renewal is "modern" RO. Stats work linearly, monsters have variable EXP rates based on your level compared to theirs (really low if you're 10 levels below or above them), drop rates depend on the version of renewal - Japanese-style renewal doesn't have drop rate penalties, Korean-style renewal does. Bosses in general are terribly designed and can be taken down by a single character really easily, soloing is far more efficient than partying because of EXP quests, the fact that you can teleport around and kill quest mobs without a party member to lug around and the fact that only one class (Royal Guard) has any real party synergy.

Hope that helps!

[RoseTea]

Pre-Renewal:
- The way Mother Gravity of the Great South Korean Nation intended RO to be played, all other attempts at RO are dangerously custom and are outright forgeries of the authentic Ragnarok Online experience.
- EXP penalties on nearly every monster, in the sense that 95% of monsters in the game are completely worthless XP-wise (opportunity costs).
- Most monsters you actually want to farm are things you kill in one-shot: powerful mobs rarely have what you really want.
- MVPs are brokenly, stupidly powerful because Gravity decided challenge is exploiting mechanics to survive ~80000 damage Earthquakes.
- Creators reign supreme.
- Blacksmith class line is horribly underpowered and not worth playing
- There is no reason to party because the mobs you actually want to kill to level are usually dead in one or two hits.
- Most of the stuff in the game is either worthless because of how exponential stats work, or later updates made them obsolete and therefore worthless (Hello Hydra carded weaponry, basically any armors at all post-BG).
- Is Terrible

Renewal:
- The way Mother Gravity of the Great South Korean Nation intended RO to be played, all other attempts at RO are dangerously custom and are outright forgeries of the authentic Ragnarok Online experience.
- EXP penalties on nearly every monster, in the sense that 95% of monsters in the game are not in your level range.
- Most monsters you actually want to farm are things you kill in one-shot: powerful mobs rarely have what you really want.
- MVPs are hilariously dumb and can still kill you but basically anybody can solo them.
- Genetics still reign supreme, but every class has their own stupidly broken gimmick to use now.  It's Marvel vs. Capcom up in here.
- Blacksmith class line is horribly underpowered and not worth playing
- There is no reason to party because the mobs you actually want to kill to level are dead in one hit and/or you're doing an EXP quest.
- Most of the stuff in the game is either worthless due to renewal changes, or not changed at all from pre-renewal (and consequently still worthless.  I'm looking at you Ambernite Card).
- Is Terrible

[Daletos]

Pre-Renewal:
- The way Mother Gravity of the Great South Korean Nation intended RO to be played, all other attempts at RO are dangerously custom and are outright forgeries of the authentic Ragnarok Online experience.
- EXP penalties on nearly every monster, in the sense that 95% of monsters in the game are completely worthless XP-wise (opportunity costs).
- Most monsters you actually want to farm are things you kill in one-shot: powerful mobs rarely have what you really want.
- MVPs are brokenly, stupidly powerful because Gravity decided challenge is exploiting mechanics to survive ~80000 damage Earthquakes.
- Creators reign supreme.
- Blacksmith class line is horribly underpowered and not worth playing
- There is no reason to party because the mobs you actually want to kill to level are usually dead in one or two hits.
- Most of the stuff in the game is either worthless because of how exponential stats work, or later updates made them obsolete and therefore worthless (Hello Hydra carded weaponry, basically any armors at all post-BG).
- Is Terrible

Renewal:
- The way Mother Gravity of the Great South Korean Nation intended RO to be played, all other attempts at RO are dangerously custom and are outright forgeries of the authentic Ragnarok Online experience.
- EXP penalties on nearly every monster, in the sense that 95% of monsters in the game are not in your level range.
- Most monsters you actually want to farm are things you kill in one-shot: powerful mobs rarely have what you really want.
- MVPs are hilariously dumb and can still kill you but basically anybody can solo them.
- Genetics still reign supreme, but every class has their own stupidly broken gimmick to use now.  It's Marvel vs. Capcom up in here.
- Blacksmith class line is horribly underpowered and not worth playing
- There is no reason to party because the mobs you actually want to kill to level are dead in one hit and/or you're doing an EXP quest.
- Most of the stuff in the game is either worthless due to renewal changes, or not changed at all from pre-renewal (and consequently still worthless.  I'm looking at you Ambernite Card).
- Is Terrible

Lol, best post describing the differences so far. I thought it was cute and got a good chuckle. Only thing I would be iffy on is Genetic reigning supreme as yes they still are a b****, but not really dominating as there are far more threats now under the right circumstances. If any class got ridiculously buffed, that goes to RK who Gravity basically made them a god that at one point they were the best class overall at Pvm/Pvp/WoE all at once (due to spiral/DB/HS throughout all the balance changes, though they have been more nerfed and balanced now but prior they were godly with gloomy etc.) Though the main things I personally like about renewal is the diversity in character builds. In pre it was so cookie cutter with how every professor is support for WoE, as good luck being a bolter not just in WoE but even PvM it was seen as a novelty. And how sinx also was pretty strong with edp+link on SB. Additionally it is also nice for once that STRONGER WEAPONS are actually valued more than 4 slotted weaker weapons. It makes sense at least :O.

[Fruit Pie~]

Lol, best post describing the differences so far. I thought it was cute and got a good chuckle. Only thing I would be iffy on is Genetic reigning supreme as yes they still are a b****, but not really dominating as there are far more threats now under the right circumstances. If any class got ridiculously buffed, that goes to RK who Gravity basically made them a god that at one point they were the best class overall at Pvm/Pvp/WoE all at once (due to spiral/DB/HS throughout all the balance changes, though they have been more nerfed and balanced now but prior they were godly with gloomy etc.)

It wasn't a buff for the RK : just a return to form! Remember back in ye goode olde days when they could one-shot basically every mob (and dozens at a time, too), take on every MVP solo, kill people in three hits in PVP and tank Asuras in WoE? All with the same build (SVD hybrid)?

On a related note...

Pre-Trans :
- We have always been at war with Yuno Amatsu Umbala/Niflheim Heritage Lighthalzen the BG update Renewal the Skill Balance patch.
- EXP penalties on every monster, in the sense that most mobs gave less EXP back then, unless you mob with a Knight.
- Most monsters have something good to farm, but most monsters can also be killed in one Bowling Bash as a Knight.
- MVPs are reasonably balanced, you can solo them by spending a ton of resources or you can try them with a small party. Or you could roll Knight.
- Knights reign supreme.
- Blacksmith Alchemist class line is horribly underpowered and not worth playing.
- The main reason to party is that the best EXP maps are really mobby and soloing goes really slowly. You could also roll a Knight.
- Most of the stuff in the game is worthless because there's very little choice of gear : every character has a slotted shield, Muffler, Shoes, Formal Suit, Poop Hat and a four-slotted weapon of choice. No deviation allowed, unless you're a Knight, in which case you get the best gear possible AND you get to carry two kinds of weapons!
- Is Terrible
- Knights

For completeness' sake - someone might wanna know about the few pre-trans servers out there.

FAKE EDIT :

Though the main things I personally like about renewal is the diversity in character builds. In pre it was so cookie cutter with how every professor is support for WoE, as good luck being a bolter not just in WoE but even PvM it was seen as a novelty. And how sinx also was pretty strong with edp+link on SB. Additionally it is also nice for once that STRONGER WEAPONS are actually valued more than 4 slotted weaker weapons. It makes sense at least :O.

I'd say I agree that this is a strong point of Renewal, but really, it was more like a WEAK point of pre-Renewal, post-Trans. Renewal is just Gravity fixing a problem they themselves created, where they just stacked powerful items and skills onto certain previously underpowered characters and builds (Katar Sin, Alchemist, Monk) and they wound up one-shotting everything and being the best classes in the game. Renewal is a reset button for them patching themselves against a wall.

But then again Renewal (at least PVP) became a game of rocket launcher tag. Gravity just doesn't know what they're doing.

Also, FINALLY level 4 weapons are worth something! It just took Gravity 10 years to get that right.

[varial88]

Thank you guys.. The information given benefits a lot. I know the reason behind the opposing of renewal system implemented in RO (in some cases only). By the way, for those who are veteran in RO, which mechanic is more preferable? and what would be your suggestion for new player like me on making selection between these two different systems?

[Triper]

Nowadays everything is fast to lv/play/get gears, just go with what you see to fit you. The biggest difference is just the way stats work and which classes are available, others are +/- ignorable.

[Playtester]

Thank you guys.. The information given benefits a lot. I know the reason behind the opposing of renewal system implemented in RO (in some cases only). By the way, for those who are veteran in RO, which mechanic is more preferable? and what would be your suggestion for new player like me on making selection between these two different systems?

I think pre-renewal is much better than renewal because it's more challenging and unique.

What would be the best for you is pretty easy to decide:
Do you prefer quests telling you what to do? Yes -> Renewal; No -> Pre-Renewal
Do you prefer playing solo? Yes -> Renewal; No -> Pre-Renewal
What difficulty do you prefer? Easy -> Renewal; Hard -> Pre-Renewal
WoW-clone or unique? Clone -> Renewal; Unique -> Pre-Renewal

[Regret]

All I can say is that people who have actually played Renewal would know that it's not as much of an easy mode as people claim it to be and that it's quite enjoyable.

Saying that pre-RE is more challenging is a vague expression as well.
I mean, given the right gear, knowledge and ability to open multiple clients, you can basically 2-man every single MvP there is in Pre-Renewal so easily.

[Fruit Pie~]

I think pre-renewal is much better than renewal because it's more challenging and unique.

What would be the best for you is pretty easy to decide:
Do you prefer quests telling you what to do? Yes -> Renewal; No -> Pre-Renewal
Do you prefer playing solo? Yes -> Renewal; No -> Pre-Renewal
What difficulty do you prefer? Easy -> Renewal; Hard -> Pre-Renewal
WoW-clone or unique? Clone -> Renewal; Unique -> Pre-Renewal

Sorry, man, but I think he asked about Renewal, not Legend of the Second. =P

The quests are implemented in a likable way, I feel. Very RO-ish : go to a map, kill several dozen mobs, bring several dozen items back, you gain EXP and sometimes potions/basic gear. Also Renewal gets absurdly hard to level later on (the early levels are much easier, though - in that we agree, despite the Skill Balance Patch trying to make them harder). If you mean challenge as in MVPs, they were artificially made harder in pre-Renewal, each mob skill patch making them even harder like some kind of stupid boss damage arms race. Partying is just as effective as in pre-Renewal (it is not effective). Also, WoW-clone... really? How? Have you played WoW? I can't... I don't even...

I absolutely prefer pre-Renewal too : I enjoy the breakpoints and such, adds a little depth to making a stat/gear build, I feel. It also rewards you for knowledge of the game - you can execute some ridiculous leveling schemes you just can't in RE due to the EXP penalties. But you're pretty much inventing a totally new Renewal to wail on here.

[Playtester]

When I say hard I don't mean hard to level, but rather challenging.

In pre-renewal all monsters do like 3 to 10 times more base damage (and a bunch of monster skills are also stronger). Usually if you go into the harder regions most mobs can kill you in one or two hits.
In renewal apart maybe from Nightmare Mode Scaraba Hole, everything does so little damage, even if you don't wear any gear at all. Because even in the new world the base damage is only 700~1300 and at that level you already have more than 6000 HP, that means you can easily survive 5 or more hits naked! Where is the challenge? A priest can easily outheal that...

In pre-renewal you need really good gear to even be able to survive.

[Fruit Pie~]

Ah, that kind of challenge. I genuinely think Renewal went overboard on the damage reduction (it's another part of why I dislike it), but I also think RO mob design from the Einbroch update onwards has been straying from "fair" into the unsavory territory of "terrible".

To me the sweet spot is oldschool/pre-trans (can you tell yet it was my favorite era in RO?), where things hit hard but you could actually survive them with gear. An ungeared Knight would take upwards of 500 damage from High Orcs, and when fighting Orc Hero he basically had to pray he didn't choose to use Earth Attack and gib him instantly. Even if he didn't, that's 2k+ damage a pop. It hurts. Same Knight with a +7 WoE set, Thara and Poo Poo would take maybe 100 damage from a High Orc attack, Orc Hero would do at most 500 regular damage and Earth Attack could tag him for 6k (or he could use Dokebi for a much more manageable 4k).

Nowadays, in pre-Renewal RO, you have amazing design like Orc Hero doing over 60k damage Spiral Pierces to the exact same Knight with the exact same gear. And no, tanks haven't gone up in quality from those days - you get a +10% HP bonus from Tidal+Wool, +25% HP from Trans, perhaps +1% HP from Green Ferus, and damage cut in half from Assumptio. So that's what, triple the effective HP? While Orc Hero does literally ten times the damage?

And then they went and applied that to REGULAR MOBS, which leads to wonderful dungeons like Thor's Volcano and Bio 3 where everything one-shots you. And started a silly "boss damage arms race" that ended in MVPs where you have to literally abuse bugs to take down without bringing your entire 36 man guild along for the ride.

Anyway, about gearing, I feel it goes like this - in pre-Trans, gear is a nice thing to have. In pre-Renewal, gear is a requirement. In Renewal, gear is an afterthought.

EDIT : Priests haven't outhealed anything (or done much of anything, really) since Transclasses and the introduction of Fury/Power Up in Einbroch. No, not even in Renewal : Heal was nerfed to the ground, Archbishops in general are useless and Coluceo Heal is TERRIBLE.

[Heosuuke]

If you want something new and currently bored with the oldies, go play renewal. But as stated by the above post, there is a lot of changes! That includes the monster spawn locations, etc.

I'd choose renewal cause there is a lot of changes and changes excites me.

Since kRO dropped the pre-renewal, servers will be stuck in ep 13.3  unless they customized the next episode updates to fit the pre-renewal settings.

Anyways, good luck finding a server!

[Playtester]

Fruit Pie, in pre-renewal you can actually survive those strong attacks even in the newer regions. I assume you are referring to regions like Thor Volcano and New World, right? Well I saw videos from Doddler where he fully geared only takes ~700 damage there. This is because of 65 DEF + Racial Reduction + Neutral Reduction + Assumptio. You can basically divide the damage by 10 with that.
This is mainly because on official servers there was so much gear and also MVP cards already, that the monsters were adjusted to work with that.

On low rate private server this is kind of problematic.

It would be an idea to manually adjust the damage on private servers to be more balanced, harder than renewal, but easier than official Thor/New World pre-renewal. The problem is, the moment you adjust something players will complain about it not being official and it's also hard to justify it. I myself could only accept it if there was a clear rule on how it is modified (e.g. 3x renewal damage), but even that feels too custom, so not sure...

[Fruit Pie~]

Fruit Pie, in pre-renewal you can actually survive those strong attacks even in the newer regions. I assume you are referring to regions like Thor Volcano and New World, right? Well I saw videos from Doddler where he fully geared only takes ~700 damage there. This is because of 65 DEF + Racial Reduction + Neutral Reduction + Assumptio. You can basically divide the damage by 10 with that.

Yes, admittedly, Doddler is super well geared (and plays really well, his videos are kind of inspirational). But you might notice in, say, his Nidhoggur or Thanatos solo videos, he gets one-shot from time to time. This is a man with some of the best possible gear on the highest HP character.

Also, I think he has Ghostring on when he's fighting the Kasas or their Spiral Pierce might be much weaker in official servers because there's no way he could be taking so little damage - Spiral Pierce on mobs, at least in private servers, uses the mob's maximum attack as weapon weight. Kasas are using a 3500 ATK Spiral Pierce with a 3500 weight spear.

This is mainly because on official servers there was so much gear and also MVP cards already, that the monsters were adjusted to work with that.

On low rate private server this is kind of problematic.

It would be an idea to manually adjust the damage on private servers to be more balanced, harder than renewal, but easier than official Thor/New World pre-renewal. The problem is, the moment you adjust something players will complain about it not being official and it's also hard to justify it. I myself could only accept it if there was a clear rule on how it is modified (e.g. 3x renewal damage), but even that feels too custom, so not sure...

You were SO CLOSE, then bam. No customs allowed. I dunno, man, surely you can agree the "RO experience" wouldn't be harmed by some number tweaking? Like Kasas doing, say, a little more than half damage. Or Cornus going down from 13k damage to something that's not entirely stupid. Just consider players with things you CAN reasonably acquire in low-rate servers when modifying their damage output and you're golden - I say +4 or +7 basic set, normal mob cards ie no MVP/miniboss, Assumptio in higher level dungeons (Thor, Scaraba, Bio 3).

Also, curiously, Kasas do 3x renewal damage right now, a bit less even! Renewal Kasa hits for 1300, regular Kasa hits for 3500.

[RoseTea]

The problem is, the moment you adjust something players will complain about it not being official and it's also hard to justify it.

Nobody would complain about this.  Also, it's easy to justify it, here, let me try to think of at least one reason...

This is mainly because on official servers there was so much gear and also MVP cards already, that the monsters were adjusted to work with that.

On low rate private server this is kind of problematic.

Oh.  Thanks for that.

but even that feels too custom, so not sure...

Don't focus on what is or is not custom.  Focus on what makes a solid, well-designed game.  If a change creates a better gameplay experience, absolutely nobody should care if it's official (Official by what year?  What episode?  What nationality of "official" server?  What [arbitrary distinction]?) or not.

[Hermos]

If you think partying doesn't work with MvPs, you either don't have enough gear (yes, MvPing should be an endgame activity and no, I'm not talking about using MvP cards/custom godlike equipment) or you don't know how to play. Party works really well against MvPs if you and your party knows what to do. I find it really difficult to understand how you can say that.

[Fruit Pie~]

Well, MVPing was always an endgame thing. It's just that you could reasonably solo many MVPs pre-Einbroch with the right class and the right gear. Even post-Einbroch small parties were good, you could definitely duo or trio most stuff, and some were still soloable.

Post-Veins, though? I can't imagine how you beat Ifrit without the age old trick of taking a large group of people to just stand around and take EQ damage while a Star Gladiator and a Professor (both with Ghostring) glitch him to death with Heat. And that's after they nerfed the Ankle Snare bug that allowed you to MVP quickly and easily. And the Ice Wall bug that did the same. Unless, of course, that's "knowing what you're doing". If so, fair enough, but it's always great when a game relies on you abusing bugs to actually beat content.

But let's assume something not as absurd as Ifrit. Orc Hero's Spiral Pierce is going to mess you up and they fixed the Safety Wall bug that blocked it at melee range (which made it entirely doable as a duo). The best non-Creator party to take down Orc Hero is a few Champions and a Bragi'd (or Kiel'd) High Priest, by abusing his relatively low HP count to three-shot him before he can one-shot you. Or you could just make a Creator and solo AD every oldschool MVP by abusing damage delay and fly wings to bug your way out of Earthquake/Hell Judgement. Exciting boss fights!

tl;dr : I enjoy PVE content that doesn't require boss cards, bug abuse, entire guilds or all three. RO was much better before the absolute pits of despair that were episodes 10 and 11. (have I mentioned this yet?)

[Playtester]

So basically you would want a server that is basically pre-renewal but rebalances the later episode monsters (and MVPs) to not expect people having boss cards?

Yeah if you allow yourself unlimited freedom, you basically can make RO a greater game, but I don't really see the majority of the players actually wanting that. The big servers also are already pretty custom so might as well play on those. TalonRO made a different approach by just giving easy access to Kaho's Horns and MVP cards.

Why I still prefer official is because first of all if I check databases and stuff on the internet they will of course only contain official stats. And secondly, if I play on a server and say he gave new world mobs 1000~1500 damage I'd think "how did he calculate thosen numbers? why not 2000~3000?".

[RoseTea]

And secondly, if I play on a server and say he gave new world mobs 1000~1500 damage I'd think "how did he calculate thosen numbers? why not 2000~3000?".

This is amusing because I can play on official servers, ask the same question and it'd be equally legitimate.  Why is the Gold Acidus so much higher HP than the Blue Acidus?  Why is it, apparently, more XP-HP efficient to kill?  Why does Eddga have exactly 7o Str and do 1215-1565?  Couldn't they smooth that out to 1200-1500?  Why does it drop Elunium at exactly 23%, was 25 too overpowered?  Heck, why do Porings have a chance to drop 2 apples and have a water-based attack?  Why are the 20k+ damaging Pom Spiders still only barely more HP:XP efficient as the much easier Stings?  Speaking of Stings, 4081 is quite a number to end up at for experience.  How'd they come up with it?

Your quote implies that A. You understand and accept how Gravity came up with their own numbers, and B. It's impossible for somebody else to re-create that.  Actually a better question: if somebody DID explain how they calculated their numbers, would you still find it objectionable?  Since I don't recall Gravity ever doing us even that favor.

[Hermos]

I believe he's talking about how a server would include renewal mobs on a pre-renewal mechanics. I mean, what's the justificative for having such values. In an official server, they are *meant* to be like that, thus there's no need to make such questions.

[Playtester]

Well I think basically when Gravity changes something like making mobs harder or changing the spawns. You change it on your server. Players will tell you "Why? Before it was much better." and then you can reason it with "It's an official update" and maybe provide some proof if you're cool and then players will accept it (at least not blame you, but rather Gravity).

However if you start and say: The monsters in the new world will now have 3x their renewal attack rather than their official pre-renewal values. Then you have players complain about this change and probably quit the server because it's too custom.

If the majority of players would favour something like completely rebalancing everything about RO to make it really balanced, then the majority would play on e.g. MouRO because Skotlex managed that really well. But yet he can still be happy if his playerbase goes into the 2 digit area.

On a sidenote, I really like the original RO design were all drop rates were pretty strange like 23.65% instead of rounding it, because that makes it simply more interesting. Since the original designer left RO all those values are pretty boring. =.=

I'm thinking about it a lot lately, because what I'm trying to do is writing a converter that converts renewal stats to the pre-renewal system and it works quite well for most stats by using statistical evaluation, but for those harder regions it doesn't fit. For example if you want a Scaraba Hole in pre-renewal that feels like the renewal one you would only need give them around 6000 attack but all the older new world monsters have 8000+ attack on pre-renewal and on renewal Scarabas actually have the highest attack in the whole new world, but 6000 is lower than 8000. So basically you'd now also apply a damage reduction on those older monsters so it actually makes sense, but then it'll be hard to explain that you are still a close-to-official pre-renewal server because "Gravity would have done the same". Even if your calculations are perfect player will still not believe you.

I personally am also very strict to the "close to official" principle simply because I often show RO to new players and I want them to experience RO the way I did when I played it the first time because RO is still my favorite MMORPG of all times and I don't think it would have been if I started playing it just now.

But even being strict I'd actually find that if at least Thor and New World were rebalanced, that would actually be a good thing. A server that feels like official pre-renewal server, but is still rebalanced to not consider everyone having boss cards. That's why I'm also interested in what you think about it, because I'm quite surprised that you really seem to be in favour of such a change because I still think most people don't like too many custom changes, especially if they mess with the core data like monster stats.

My favorite regions in pre-renewal RO are Thanatos Tower and Cursey Abbey, because they have exactly the difficulty I like. Really hard and you need to be scared to die on a single mistake, but still somehow doable with good non-boss gear.
In renewal everything is too easy for me.

[Triper]

I'm thinking about it a lot lately, because what I'm trying to do is writing a converter that converts renewal stats to the pre-renewal system and it works quite well for most stats by using statistical evaluation, but for those harder regions it doesn't fit. For example if you want a Scaraba Hole in pre-renewal that feels like the renewal one you would only need give them around 6000 attack but all the older new world monsters have 8000+ attack on pre-renewal and on renewal Scarabas actually have the highest attack in the whole new world, but 6000 is lower than 8000. So basically you'd now also apply a damage reduction on those older monsters so it actually makes sense, but then it'll be hard to explain that you are still a close-to-official pre-renewal server because "Gravity would have done the same". Even if your calculations are perfect player will still not believe you.

Finally someone works on what I've been talked about for ages that was needed to fix the gap between pre-renewal and renewal ;o Kudos to you.

I always though that this was a necessary thing and dunno why nobody ever made it before[well, the reason it's pretty much what you already told up there, that weird thing between stats doesn't help but this is like a must to clean the gap of "no updates" between styles of servers - pre-renewal/renewal].

[Fruit Pie~]

I agree with you on wanting to experience RO the way it was, which is actually the reason I'm all for tweaking numbers. I got into RO way back in the Amatsu update, when the hardest mobs hit for less than 1k and the most damage an MVP could ever hit you for was Baphomet's absurd 16k damage Brandish Spear (you needed a Swordsman class to tank him!). You could do most content in the game naked and solo, but it took a lot of resources! Gear and support were the difference between spending millions of zeny in consumables or just a few thousand.

Nowadays, with Gravity being up-front about their utter hatred of melee classes and Priests, I just wish they'd go back to the old design of things that hit hard but not too hard and strained your resources depending on your setup, rather than being the boring, binary "you get one shot" or "you're unkillable" thing that the latest pre-Renewal content currently is. Renewal TRIED but ultimately went way overboard on the damage reduction, especially among regular mobs.

And about databases, it's relatively easy to set up your own database search for your custom database. Pre-Trans servers basically HAVE to do that, and in the ones I've played with a custom online database they seem to work pretty well!

I love Thanatos Tower as well, I feel it's the best dungeon in the game along with the Endless Tower. Why not balance damage around that dungeon? Nothing there hits so hard that a dedicated tank can't be healed/potted through it. The mobs that ARE exceedingly dangerous (Odium, Sentinel) are gimmick mobs that keep you on your toes, but are eminently counterable and will only ruin your day if you let them. It even offers decent rewards for the risks if you're in a party, which is more than you can say about Thor or the New World!

FAKE EDIT : Alas, poor MouRO. I knew it, Playtester; A server of infinite jest, of most excellent fancy; I have played it a thousand times, and now, abhorred in my imagination it is!

On a more serious note about it, I feel the difference between MouRO and what we're trying to get at here is the scope of changes - one's a sweeping, global customization to make RO feel like a different game (better in some regards, worse in others), the other is just number tweaking and balancing to change RO's PVM dynamic for a faster-paced, less gear-dependent experience more akin to oldschool RO.

[foodguy]

i would like to add on another question, are the stats and effects given by gears different in pre-renewal and renewal too?
unfortunately i cannot remember which gear was it that i saw

[Playtester]

Yes they are different. You get a lot more DEF in renewal than you got in pre-renewal for example, due to the different ways DEF works (in pre-renewal 100 DEF makes you basically invincible, in renewal you'd need 4000 DEF to get close to that).

Also some other bonuses have changed as well, for example refine bonuses have been added for refines above +10.

[holocauseRO]

playing more non renewal server cuz

3rd jobs have imbalance skill but i really like all of them

what i hate is how slow your cast will be

in renewal you can reach 190 aspd easily

and its a bit hard to unlock items since you need gears fo pref on a mr server for easy drops

stats are better and they balanced bleed chance

[Astraeos]

Completely different game mechanics. One of the largest charges in PvM was Physical Damage vs Magic Damage from monsters. Physical damage from monsters is almost non-existent, I take 80s from things in Scaraba on a Shadow Chaser/Creator as well as I usually have 80%+ flee without the flee reduction from multiple monsters. But take nearly 15k fireballs from Kasas without fire armor. Mental Strength is actually one of my favorite changes. Like Playtester said, PvM too easy. WoE is kinda retarded right now.

[sheena]

Who are the designers of RO? I know its Gravity but I'm looking for people accountable to it.

[Astraeos]

Lol, Original RO and Renewal RO are a completely different set of staff.

[Playtester]

The original inventor of RO is long gone from RO. He developed Granado Espada (music by the same team as RO1) later and then announced he will make another game with the real RO spirit (and claims RO2 is nothing like that) called Project R1. However there haven't been any news on the game and the website went offline, so I guess he dropped it.

The original development team from RO worked later on RO2-1 (not the one released now which is RO2-2). I think they were also involved with developing ROSE Online a little. After having a fight with Gravity about how to design RO2, they left and decided to make their own company and also hired some people from old Squaresoft who left Square-Enix out of similar reasons. They have been working on a game called Lime Odyssey, buut... it should have been released like 2 years ago and still didn't come out, so I'm not sure what's going on there either.

Renewal as Astraeos said above, is done by a completely different team. None of the original staff is still with Gravity.