Difference between pre renewal and renewal RO

[varial88]

Hi there...
What are the differences between these two types of game mechanic?
and i saw some servers running renewal system but with pre renewal calculation/mechanic. How does these two different things mixed up?

[Playtester]

Pre-renewal:
- no 3rd classes
- no exp/drop penalties when killing monsters above or below your level
- stronger monsters are more rewarding
- skills only have variable cast time, 150 dex = instant cast
- exp share range 10 levels, game mechanics encourage partying

Renewal:
- 3rd classes, the way how stats work was adjusted so it works with 3rd classes, max stat is 120 instead of 99
- exp/drop penalties for killing monsters above or below your level
- stronger monsters are less rewarding, only reason to kill them is because of the exp/drop penalty
- skills have a variable and fixed cast time, you need a lot more int/dex to remove the variable cast time, no instant cast possible
- exp share range 15 levels, game mechanics encourage solo play (despite 10% exp bonus per party member more than 2)

[Fruit Pie~]

Allow me my own take on this :

Pre-renewal is "classic" RO. Stats work exponentially, monsters have fixed EXP rates (so you can kill a Kasa, one of the strongest mobs in the game, as a solo Archer with an off-party tank, and gain like 30 levels in one go), bosses in general are terribly designed and require bug exploits or an entire guild to take down, soloing is far more efficient than partying because of EXP penalties, the fact you can teleport around without a party member to lug around and the fact that only one class (Crusader/Paladin) has any real party synergy.

Renewal is "modern" RO. Stats work linearly, monsters have variable EXP rates based on your level compared to theirs (really low if you're 10 levels below or above them), drop rates depend on the version of renewal - Japanese-style renewal doesn't have drop rate penalties, Korean-style renewal does. Bosses in general are terribly designed and can be taken down by a single character really easily, soloing is far more efficient than partying because of EXP quests, the fact that you can teleport around and kill quest mobs without a party member to lug around and the fact that only one class (Royal Guard) has any real party synergy.

Hope that helps!

[RoseTea]

Pre-Renewal:
- The way Mother Gravity of the Great South Korean Nation intended RO to be played, all other attempts at RO are dangerously custom and are outright forgeries of the authentic Ragnarok Online experience.
- EXP penalties on nearly every monster, in the sense that 95% of monsters in the game are completely worthless XP-wise (opportunity costs).
- Most monsters you actually want to farm are things you kill in one-shot: powerful mobs rarely have what you really want.
- MVPs are brokenly, stupidly powerful because Gravity decided challenge is exploiting mechanics to survive ~80000 damage Earthquakes.
- Creators reign supreme.
- Blacksmith class line is horribly underpowered and not worth playing
- There is no reason to party because the mobs you actually want to kill to level are usually dead in one or two hits.
- Most of the stuff in the game is either worthless because of how exponential stats work, or later updates made them obsolete and therefore worthless (Hello Hydra carded weaponry, basically any armors at all post-BG).
- Is Terrible

Renewal:
- The way Mother Gravity of the Great South Korean Nation intended RO to be played, all other attempts at RO are dangerously custom and are outright forgeries of the authentic Ragnarok Online experience.
- EXP penalties on nearly every monster, in the sense that 95% of monsters in the game are not in your level range.
- Most monsters you actually want to farm are things you kill in one-shot: powerful mobs rarely have what you really want.
- MVPs are hilariously dumb and can still kill you but basically anybody can solo them.
- Genetics still reign supreme, but every class has their own stupidly broken gimmick to use now.  It's Marvel vs. Capcom up in here.
- Blacksmith class line is horribly underpowered and not worth playing
- There is no reason to party because the mobs you actually want to kill to level are dead in one hit and/or you're doing an EXP quest.
- Most of the stuff in the game is either worthless due to renewal changes, or not changed at all from pre-renewal (and consequently still worthless.  I'm looking at you Ambernite Card).
- Is Terrible

[Daletos]

Pre-Renewal:
- The way Mother Gravity of the Great South Korean Nation intended RO to be played, all other attempts at RO are dangerously custom and are outright forgeries of the authentic Ragnarok Online experience.
- EXP penalties on nearly every monster, in the sense that 95% of monsters in the game are completely worthless XP-wise (opportunity costs).
- Most monsters you actually want to farm are things you kill in one-shot: powerful mobs rarely have what you really want.
- MVPs are brokenly, stupidly powerful because Gravity decided challenge is exploiting mechanics to survive ~80000 damage Earthquakes.
- Creators reign supreme.
- Blacksmith class line is horribly underpowered and not worth playing
- There is no reason to party because the mobs you actually want to kill to level are usually dead in one or two hits.
- Most of the stuff in the game is either worthless because of how exponential stats work, or later updates made them obsolete and therefore worthless (Hello Hydra carded weaponry, basically any armors at all post-BG).
- Is Terrible

Renewal:
- The way Mother Gravity of the Great South Korean Nation intended RO to be played, all other attempts at RO are dangerously custom and are outright forgeries of the authentic Ragnarok Online experience.
- EXP penalties on nearly every monster, in the sense that 95% of monsters in the game are not in your level range.
- Most monsters you actually want to farm are things you kill in one-shot: powerful mobs rarely have what you really want.
- MVPs are hilariously dumb and can still kill you but basically anybody can solo them.
- Genetics still reign supreme, but every class has their own stupidly broken gimmick to use now.  It's Marvel vs. Capcom up in here.
- Blacksmith class line is horribly underpowered and not worth playing
- There is no reason to party because the mobs you actually want to kill to level are dead in one hit and/or you're doing an EXP quest.
- Most of the stuff in the game is either worthless due to renewal changes, or not changed at all from pre-renewal (and consequently still worthless.  I'm looking at you Ambernite Card).
- Is Terrible

Lol, best post describing the differences so far. I thought it was cute and got a good chuckle. Only thing I would be iffy on is Genetic reigning supreme as yes they still are a b****, but not really dominating as there are far more threats now under the right circumstances. If any class got ridiculously buffed, that goes to RK who Gravity basically made them a god that at one point they were the best class overall at Pvm/Pvp/WoE all at once (due to spiral/DB/HS throughout all the balance changes, though they have been more nerfed and balanced now but prior they were godly with gloomy etc.) Though the main things I personally like about renewal is the diversity in character builds. In pre it was so cookie cutter with how every professor is support for WoE, as good luck being a bolter not just in WoE but even PvM it was seen as a novelty. And how sinx also was pretty strong with edp+link on SB. Additionally it is also nice for once that STRONGER WEAPONS are actually valued more than 4 slotted weaker weapons. It makes sense at least :O.

[Fruit Pie~]

Lol, best post describing the differences so far. I thought it was cute and got a good chuckle. Only thing I would be iffy on is Genetic reigning supreme as yes they still are a b****, but not really dominating as there are far more threats now under the right circumstances. If any class got ridiculously buffed, that goes to RK who Gravity basically made them a god that at one point they were the best class overall at Pvm/Pvp/WoE all at once (due to spiral/DB/HS throughout all the balance changes, though they have been more nerfed and balanced now but prior they were godly with gloomy etc.)

It wasn't a buff for the RK : just a return to form! Remember back in ye goode olde days when they could one-shot basically every mob (and dozens at a time, too), take on every MVP solo, kill people in three hits in PVP and tank Asuras in WoE? All with the same build (SVD hybrid)?

On a related note...

Pre-Trans :
- We have always been at war with Yuno Amatsu Umbala/Niflheim Heritage Lighthalzen the BG update Renewal the Skill Balance patch.
- EXP penalties on every monster, in the sense that most mobs gave less EXP back then, unless you mob with a Knight.
- Most monsters have something good to farm, but most monsters can also be killed in one Bowling Bash as a Knight.
- MVPs are reasonably balanced, you can solo them by spending a ton of resources or you can try them with a small party. Or you could roll Knight.
- Knights reign supreme.
- Blacksmith Alchemist class line is horribly underpowered and not worth playing.
- The main reason to party is that the best EXP maps are really mobby and soloing goes really slowly. You could also roll a Knight.
- Most of the stuff in the game is worthless because there's very little choice of gear : every character has a slotted shield, Muffler, Shoes, Formal Suit, Poop Hat and a four-slotted weapon of choice. No deviation allowed, unless you're a Knight, in which case you get the best gear possible AND you get to carry two kinds of weapons!
- Is Terrible
- Knights

For completeness' sake - someone might wanna know about the few pre-trans servers out there.

FAKE EDIT :

Though the main things I personally like about renewal is the diversity in character builds. In pre it was so cookie cutter with how every professor is support for WoE, as good luck being a bolter not just in WoE but even PvM it was seen as a novelty. And how sinx also was pretty strong with edp+link on SB. Additionally it is also nice for once that STRONGER WEAPONS are actually valued more than 4 slotted weaker weapons. It makes sense at least :O.

I'd say I agree that this is a strong point of Renewal, but really, it was more like a WEAK point of pre-Renewal, post-Trans. Renewal is just Gravity fixing a problem they themselves created, where they just stacked powerful items and skills onto certain previously underpowered characters and builds (Katar Sin, Alchemist, Monk) and they wound up one-shotting everything and being the best classes in the game. Renewal is a reset button for them patching themselves against a wall.

But then again Renewal (at least PVP) became a game of rocket launcher tag. Gravity just doesn't know what they're doing.

Also, FINALLY level 4 weapons are worth something! It just took Gravity 10 years to get that right.

[varial88]

Thank you guys.. The information given benefits a lot. I know the reason behind the opposing of renewal system implemented in RO (in some cases only). By the way, for those who are veteran in RO, which mechanic is more preferable? and what would be your suggestion for new player like me on making selection between these two different systems?

[Triper]

Nowadays everything is fast to lv/play/get gears, just go with what you see to fit you. The biggest difference is just the way stats work and which classes are available, others are +/- ignorable.

[Playtester]

Thank you guys.. The information given benefits a lot. I know the reason behind the opposing of renewal system implemented in RO (in some cases only). By the way, for those who are veteran in RO, which mechanic is more preferable? and what would be your suggestion for new player like me on making selection between these two different systems?

I think pre-renewal is much better than renewal because it's more challenging and unique.

What would be the best for you is pretty easy to decide:
Do you prefer quests telling you what to do? Yes -> Renewal; No -> Pre-Renewal
Do you prefer playing solo? Yes -> Renewal; No -> Pre-Renewal
What difficulty do you prefer? Easy -> Renewal; Hard -> Pre-Renewal
WoW-clone or unique? Clone -> Renewal; Unique -> Pre-Renewal

[Regret]

All I can say is that people who have actually played Renewal would know that it's not as much of an easy mode as people claim it to be and that it's quite enjoyable.

Saying that pre-RE is more challenging is a vague expression as well.
I mean, given the right gear, knowledge and ability to open multiple clients, you can basically 2-man every single MvP there is in Pre-Renewal so easily.

[Fruit Pie~]

I think pre-renewal is much better than renewal because it's more challenging and unique.

What would be the best for you is pretty easy to decide:
Do you prefer quests telling you what to do? Yes -> Renewal; No -> Pre-Renewal
Do you prefer playing solo? Yes -> Renewal; No -> Pre-Renewal
What difficulty do you prefer? Easy -> Renewal; Hard -> Pre-Renewal
WoW-clone or unique? Clone -> Renewal; Unique -> Pre-Renewal

Sorry, man, but I think he asked about Renewal, not Legend of the Second. =P

The quests are implemented in a likable way, I feel. Very RO-ish : go to a map, kill several dozen mobs, bring several dozen items back, you gain EXP and sometimes potions/basic gear. Also Renewal gets absurdly hard to level later on (the early levels are much easier, though - in that we agree, despite the Skill Balance Patch trying to make them harder). If you mean challenge as in MVPs, they were artificially made harder in pre-Renewal, each mob skill patch making them even harder like some kind of stupid boss damage arms race. Partying is just as effective as in pre-Renewal (it is not effective). Also, WoW-clone... really? How? Have you played WoW? I can't... I don't even...

I absolutely prefer pre-Renewal too : I enjoy the breakpoints and such, adds a little depth to making a stat/gear build, I feel. It also rewards you for knowledge of the game - you can execute some ridiculous leveling schemes you just can't in RE due to the EXP penalties. But you're pretty much inventing a totally new Renewal to wail on here.

[Playtester]

When I say hard I don't mean hard to level, but rather challenging.

In pre-renewal all monsters do like 3 to 10 times more base damage (and a bunch of monster skills are also stronger). Usually if you go into the harder regions most mobs can kill you in one or two hits.
In renewal apart maybe from Nightmare Mode Scaraba Hole, everything does so little damage, even if you don't wear any gear at all. Because even in the new world the base damage is only 700~1300 and at that level you already have more than 6000 HP, that means you can easily survive 5 or more hits naked! Where is the challenge? A priest can easily outheal that...

In pre-renewal you need really good gear to even be able to survive.

[Fruit Pie~]

Ah, that kind of challenge. I genuinely think Renewal went overboard on the damage reduction (it's another part of why I dislike it), but I also think RO mob design from the Einbroch update onwards has been straying from "fair" into the unsavory territory of "terrible".

To me the sweet spot is oldschool/pre-trans (can you tell yet it was my favorite era in RO?), where things hit hard but you could actually survive them with gear. An ungeared Knight would take upwards of 500 damage from High Orcs, and when fighting Orc Hero he basically had to pray he didn't choose to use Earth Attack and gib him instantly. Even if he didn't, that's 2k+ damage a pop. It hurts. Same Knight with a +7 WoE set, Thara and Poo Poo would take maybe 100 damage from a High Orc attack, Orc Hero would do at most 500 regular damage and Earth Attack could tag him for 6k (or he could use Dokebi for a much more manageable 4k).

Nowadays, in pre-Renewal RO, you have amazing design like Orc Hero doing over 60k damage Spiral Pierces to the exact same Knight with the exact same gear. And no, tanks haven't gone up in quality from those days - you get a +10% HP bonus from Tidal+Wool, +25% HP from Trans, perhaps +1% HP from Green Ferus, and damage cut in half from Assumptio. So that's what, triple the effective HP? While Orc Hero does literally ten times the damage?

And then they went and applied that to REGULAR MOBS, which leads to wonderful dungeons like Thor's Volcano and Bio 3 where everything one-shots you. And started a silly "boss damage arms race" that ended in MVPs where you have to literally abuse bugs to take down without bringing your entire 36 man guild along for the ride.

Anyway, about gearing, I feel it goes like this - in pre-Trans, gear is a nice thing to have. In pre-Renewal, gear is a requirement. In Renewal, gear is an afterthought.

EDIT : Priests haven't outhealed anything (or done much of anything, really) since Transclasses and the introduction of Fury/Power Up in Einbroch. No, not even in Renewal : Heal was nerfed to the ground, Archbishops in general are useless and Coluceo Heal is TERRIBLE.

[Heosuuke]

If you want something new and currently bored with the oldies, go play renewal. But as stated by the above post, there is a lot of changes! That includes the monster spawn locations, etc.

I'd choose renewal cause there is a lot of changes and changes excites me.

Since kRO dropped the pre-renewal, servers will be stuck in ep 13.3  unless they customized the next episode updates to fit the pre-renewal settings.

Anyways, good luck finding a server!

[Playtester]

Fruit Pie, in pre-renewal you can actually survive those strong attacks even in the newer regions. I assume you are referring to regions like Thor Volcano and New World, right? Well I saw videos from Doddler where he fully geared only takes ~700 damage there. This is because of 65 DEF + Racial Reduction + Neutral Reduction + Assumptio. You can basically divide the damage by 10 with that.
This is mainly because on official servers there was so much gear and also MVP cards already, that the monsters were adjusted to work with that.

On low rate private server this is kind of problematic.

It would be an idea to manually adjust the damage on private servers to be more balanced, harder than renewal, but easier than official Thor/New World pre-renewal. The problem is, the moment you adjust something players will complain about it not being official and it's also hard to justify it. I myself could only accept it if there was a clear rule on how it is modified (e.g. 3x renewal damage), but even that feels too custom, so not sure...